Kia E Niro heat pump is it worth paying for? - Full Review

[@jarugie23]

Oh dear! You are god sent. You've just saved us £900 quid. I am just about to place our order for the Niro EV4 and we were thinking about adding the heat pump. I just decided to check on youtube to see if there was any comparison's, and viola. Thank you so much. I mean it. Thanks!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Great to hear 👍 you found it useful, here in the uk i honestly think the heat pump is not needed, and tge data from the reflex project backs this up , thanks for watching too 👍

[@harryadam1671]

Me too - last year. Dealer tried...

[@colinturvey6457]

Up here in Scotland I think it will be needed in the lower temperatures .

[@sprockkets]

What matters for me is the heat pump system is capable of dehumidifying without needing to have outside air turned on or lose heat doing it. Plus in America it's bundled with the battery heater and heated steering wheel. Kind need them all when we get -20° F regularly.

[@harmjeeninga2329]

We drove a brand new 2022 Niro EV without heat pump and without heated seats for 45.000 km. The only negative observation was the lack of heat during winter time, the car rally struggled heating the interior below 4 C. We just bought a second hand Niro (same model) with heated seats (every EV needs that) and heat pump.

[@SirHackaL0t.]

PTC uses a resistive heater. Heatpump is an aircon unit that moves heat from outside to inside and possibly uses the same heatpump to cool the car.

[@PinballGeorgio]

Wrong, a heat pump pumps the battery generated heat in winter to the interior. In summertime it has no function.

[@CarolSteele]

I would agree Jonathan. In fact I agree so much that I ordered my new Niro EV without a heat pump (but it does have electrically heated seats and steering wheel). Part of the reason is that I live down here on the SW peninsula coast, and we haven't had any snow for the last two years. Add to that I rarely have the car set to above 21°C in winter and also I get very cheap (5.5p/kWh) it would take an enormous amount of time to recoup that £900 for the heat pump.

[@11camrat11]

Thank you very much for doing this test. I was on the fence on going for the pump but after seeing this video, It really doesn't need one with what the possible gains are. You have just saved me £900. thank you.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Glad it put your mind at rest and thanks for watching 👀 🙂

[@briangriffiths114]

Unlike my previous ICE cars, I have never needed to use the AC (but I activate it briefly once a month for maintenance) even during hot spells as the car remains cool with fan on a medium setting thanks to all that tinted glass. In winter, the heater is on a minimal setting and the fan on low and yet the car is pleasantly warm with the range guessometer registering almost no change.

[@judebrown4103]

What a great experiment, I tried not to get distracted by the changing cloud formations in that beautiful sky behind you.😊 Took delivery yesterday of a Hyundai Ioniq 38kW Premium 2020 in gorgeous Pearlecent Blue. Neighbours are envious and they all want to know how it works so my two years of research is paying off now as I can answer most of their queries. The only thing I was slightly anxious about was actually getting in and driving the thing, had no test drives at all, but do you know....? It's a car and so easy to drive as all you lovely KZbinrs have been telling me! Just need to remember about Aircon etc being electron thirsty and all the other things I know that I know! A stark reminder of that was the thing arriving on a flat bed having left Derby with 94%soc ; driver opened the door to move it when he arrived here in Kent only to discover the radio on and 78% charge left! Thank goodness it's one of the few EVs with Auxiliary Battery Management and the HV battery had saved the 12v! Now we need to learn how to use a Podpoint, apps downloaded and ready to go! Thanks for all your help, will always be watching, love the giggles.😂👍

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching Jude 👀, great news you have an ev , ioniq is a great ev , efficient too 😀. Really appreciate your comments, and get planning an ev trip to Orkney in your new car to see our amazing skys !

[@MattHill303]

My first two EVs had heat pumps but my current mk1 MG ZS EV hasn't and I can't say it's been something I've missed, certainly a thing that I'd not be fretting about when buying an EV any more.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and watching 👀 🙂

[@carlarrowsmith]

It would be interesting to see the same test done in the winter at around 0 degrees. Would it produce different results?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Good call, i will repeat in winter 👍

[@P-Eric]

Nice test, I'll be curious to see the difference in effency if we redo the test in a country like Canada where the temperature drop to -30C?

[@JakubHanak-mc2dm]

@@JonathanPorterfield Hello, so did you try it in winter? I am really curious about the outcome of it. Thank you.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

@JakubHanak-mc2dm no i haven't yet

[@irenecheca6575]

In Canada in mountain area someone calculated the the loss for the kona without heat pump at over 50%, massive. Winter with real cold, snow and wind 8s a game changers, in many climate it does make a huge difference

[@kinross24]

VW group have always had the heat pump as an add on. Cost £1200 initially but after 2 years it’s now £1100.

[@Ian-xq4rt]

I'm sure on your Niro 2 you started the timer and then adjusted the knobs, whereas on the Niro 4, the opposite. One other thing to consider, is the heat pump will pull in warmer air from within the 'engine' compartment when it's running (as heat is still generated with electric motors) and would then be more efficient than a stand still demo. Your winter scores to me clearly showed a significant difference, even if half a mile per KW, that's around 30 more miles, well worth it in winter months when it's likely to be used more. Summer figures were interesting though, that was odd.

[@NicolasRaimo]

I said the same with Kona EV and EVERYONE told me in the comments I was wrong.... so JP am going to say..... YOUR TOTALLY RIGHT!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Proof is right here , with 64kWh battery no need for heatpump 👍😉

[@mjzangenberg]

Brilliant video! I just about to buy a kia e niro 64 with heat pump and didnt know how the heat pump looked like, Now I do and relaxed to confirm that it is there under the plastic shield to the left - THANK YOU !

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thank you , glad it helped !😊👍👍

[@wilkoone9155]

I am just about to take delivery of an Enyaq IV80 & I have ordered it without a heat pump. I have a heat pump on my ID3 & I'm convinced that in our temperate climate that we don't need them. I liked your comment about heated seats & steering wheel, very useful. Useful video thanks.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and watching 👀 🙂

[@computerbob06]

Of course the temperature on the 2 wasn't turned down until after about 8 seconds of starting the stopwatch, so maybe the 2 should have won the cooling section!?

[@michaelgoode9555]

I think that as somebody looking to buy used I'd definitely favour a heat pump over a non-heat pump on anything with a nominal range below 200 miles. Above that and it's time to consider the benefits although ongoing lower running costs differs depending upon whether you have access to solar and cheap overnight electricity or whether you rely mainly upon public charging.

[@Zmywak]

Thank You Sir. 4+ on it's way :)

[@gohumberto]

My 30Kw/hr LEAF has a heat-pump, because it makes a significant difference to the usability. I think those days are over though. I charge from home Solar mostly so I'd never recoup the £900, or even a small part of it.

[@TassieEV]

It depends on the efficiency of the heatpump as well since the VW heatpump was way less efficient than the Tesla one, whether VW were able to fix that in software updates or not unsure. My Ioniq 28 with PTC I lose 30km of range when I put the heat to 20c and it levels out around 20km range roughly once the cabin is warmed up that is on fan speed 1 by the way, so about 12-13 miles of range loss which is far more than in your testing. I think I'd still get the heatpump though and luckily some cars come with it as standard no option for anything but a heatpump.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching and your comments 🙂

[@pezomarko]

mine does have a heat pump but many times I forget to preheat the car, and then when I get in, I don't want to wait a long time for it to get warm so I turn on PTC heaters initially anyway. I also think better heat insulation and variable air recirculation would have more impact on efficiency.

[@evdabbler]

That was excellent. Love the fact you had two samples of 20+ cars. Very helpful study, thanks.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and watching 👍👍

[@andysimmonds4023]

It's the difference between Summer and Winter which is key. In Summer my e-niro 4+ has a 321 mile range (according to the GOM) at 100% SOC, this is more than enough for all but the longest journeys we do. I think I'm now getting 321 miles because after 20,000 miles everything has bedded in nicely. But in Winter we can't do 220 miles (Sheffield to Portsmouth) in one hop and need to top up before arrival in order not to be critically low on arrival. So anything I can do to increase Winter range is good. The heat pump will have the most effect in Winter when the motor is running warm, so I can have heating and not reduce my range significantly.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Good shout ,i will repeat in winter 👌

[@maxsec2]

@@JonathanPorterfield yeah the winter is the key here....and my FE did Reading to Barnsley with 64% battery jan 19, about 2c and on full winter tyres. (via oxford, A43 not the M25 route) Mind you my bladder and the Kia safety message were both binging to take a break at that point ;-)

[@monk3yboy69]

Your start range is showing 321 miles but no way are you actually going to achieve that. Mine is the same currently when I set off in the morning. You’re probably at best getting 270? Winter 220 is what I get too so that is spot on.

[@CampervanTime]

I have a Kona on order and have ordered the heat pump - on the basis that if I need to really stretch the range on a long journey or if a charger isn't working and I need just a few more miles I'll know I'd be kicking myself thinking 'if only I had....'. Plus, I like my tech to be as good as it can be, rather than it being nobbled or compromised due to cost!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your thoughts 👍😉

[@davidward5268]

Waiting for delivery of my Niro EV 2 ..... without a heat pump. Good to hear it shouldn't make much difference👍

[@Banyan314]

...until you go to sell it.

[@martinwray7001]

Isn't the heat pump PTC assisted for those really nithering mornings? I've noticed that in our heat pump equipped Kona, it will pull 7kW + from first starting the car. Therefore, I've always assumed that there's also some sort of PTC going on, whilst the heatpump gets going.

[@maxsec2]

yes - but the range advantages for me - even pre-warming - over the non heat real world range makess this a no brainer.

[@Skabinflaff]

My first foray into a full EV is the Niro EV and I had no clue what benefit the heat pump would offer, so good to hear that 'none' is the answer :D Brilliant video! (unless you're Kia of course)

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and watching 👀 enjoy the EV life. it's great 👍

[@colinlambert791]

I have a 71 reg 4+ and setting temp to 68f knocks the Guessometer back between 8-10 miles. I have found a wrinkle to keep the windscreen clear. (it is January 24) in the cold wet weather the inside of the screen was almost running in condensation every morning. 1. clear the screen using the left hand 'boost' button. the turn it off when clear. 2. To keep it clear press the heat button ONLY and fan speed at 2. This make minimum difference to range because it is not using the A/C.

[@tonisolla8335]

Thanks! Now I know for sure it’s not worth worrying should I order my new Kia Nero EV with or without a heat pump.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching, and enjoy your new Niro EV 👍

[@stephenclay6852]

I have a heat pump on our e Niro 4 which came as standard fit. We have on order the new EV6 without a heat pump. My reasons for that is price yes you might loose some range but you can buy a lot of electric for £900.

[@Banyan314]

A heat pump helps an electric vehicle (EV) in several ways: Increased range Heat pumps help preserve an EV's range by using less battery power to heat the cabin. This is especially important in cold weather, when traditional heating methods can significantly reduce an EV's range. Improved comfort Heat pumps provide consistent thermal comfort without drastically reducing the vehicle's range. Better battery performance Heat pumps can help keep the battery at an optimal temperature, which improves charging performance, range, and battery longevity. More efficient Heat pumps are around three times more efficient than traditional heaters. They use existing ambient heat from the environment rather than generating heat through electricity directly. Self-regulating Heat pumps are self-regulating, meaning they won't cause fires like a regular resistive heater can. Heat pumps are becoming increasingly common on electric cars, and some models offer them as standard. Some cars with heat pumps also allow remote preconditioning, which means you can set a temperature remotely.

[@peterlawrence1478]

Very, very helpful as we are due to take delivery of the new Niro 4 without a heat pump. I was concerned but no longer. Many thanks................

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching 👍

[@PinballGeorgio]

In The Netherlands the EV 4 is standard without heat pump since 2021. On the Dutch Kia site in the FAQ section is mentioned that a heat pump only gives 3 Km extra range . So less then one percent advantage. Only for the environment freaks it's a good option to have a heat pump (yes, they tell you this in other words).

[@matthewwakeham2206]

Recent research on how to heat electric buses found that if your feet are warm you are comfortable at lower temperatures. Warm feet = comfy at 15C, cold feet = uncomfy even at 24C. So perhaps underfloor heating in the footwells would save energy overall. Also why does the temp go up to 27C? If they capped it at 24C which is enough for anyone who doesn't have cold feet (and higher temps don't help that anyway), it would save energy. I think many people also don't understand climate control. The temperature dial is a thermostat, not a heat control. You set the target temperature and the ECU adjusts heat, fan speed and vent selection to achieve the temperature and maintain it. For heating it will prioritise the footwells and for cooling the dash vents. Lower fan speeds mean hotter/cooler air depending on whether you have heat/AC selected.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Yes i agree about heating your feet etc , heated seats and sterring wheel means hands are warm too , and if my hands and bottom are warm , im in a happy place , and no need to heat the air around me. If heated seats / sterring wheel was standard that would be welcome in any ev. Thanks for your comments and watching 👀 🙂

[@chrisrussell418]

Also depends a lot on where you live and your lifestyle. I am retired, live in SE England and only go out in my eniro3 (without heatpump) before 9.00am about a dozen times a year in the winter. 80% charging is at home and small range difference is irrelevant. In warmer months on an eniro I don't believe heatpump helps cooling at all and the AC compressor does all the work. Turning the AC on remotely 15mins before departure in 24deg and above its a godsend to step into a precooled cabin. Once moving the fan can be turned down to 2 or 3 and range loss is only about 4 or 5 miles, That's nothing when GOM shows over 300 when 100% in summer and still 260+ in winter.

[@ronexus]

Wonder if the MY23 with the new CATL Battery will also only use a PTC to condition the Battery to 25°C for active (current model) & planned DC charging. If the HP is used too and can later also scavenge heat from the pack to the cabin, like Teslas do. It will be a different result - if you use a lot of DC charging. Update: Actually, i realize HP will not be useful to heat up or scavenge from the pack. In 1st case you need way more heating power than a small HP can provide. And after charge, the hot fluid can directly go to the cabin heat exchanger.

[@kinross24]

My wife’s id3 with heat pump gets the actual wltp quoted range of 264 miles while our friend only gets 220 miles. Confirming this on our recent journey from Kinross to Keiss and surrounding areas and returning after a week’s holiday and covered 687 miles. Three adults up and luggage it managed 264 miles on full charge, twice. My 2020 Ioniq electric got 195 miles per 100% charge on same trip, with two adults, 2 dogs and luggage. Both up and back journeys from Kinross were in heavy terrestrial rain and wind as well.

[@adrianciobotaru9595]

One of the most usefull videos about electric cars !!!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Adrian 👍 😊

[@norwegianzound]

Love your "you don't want to do it like that" voice.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks ! Ive no idea what this means , but thank-you for your comments 👍

[@nervousfrog101]

What about battery thermal management is that done by the heat pump if so how is it done im the 2? This could explain the lower effeciency of the 4 in summer. If the 4 has better thermal management for the battery that could easily be worth £900 especially if the new Niro has pre-heating for rapid charging. Could be interesting to connect CarScanner to both cars and try some rapid charging tests in the hot and cold.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thermal management and heating the battery pack ( only at -5 degrees when rapid charging ) in this e niro is only fitted to the 4+ along with 11kW 3 phase ac charge speeds.

[@n1vca]

Thanks, great real world test. I wonder how much this impacts the conditioning of the battery in terms of charging currents in the winter. The new Niro EV also has only 80KW max and I have seen someone only charging in the winter with just about 60KW and I believe that was a car with a heat pump. I hope to max it out as close as possible with the pump that I ordered?!

[@rod2625]

Makes me wonder about the efficiency of their heat pumps. GM estimates a 10% difference between with, without. All new GM EVs based on their Ultium platforms will come standard with a heat pump.

[@oldebill1807]

Thank you for the analysis. I do have a follow up question. What was the relevant ambient temperatures during the month's over which the data was collected? As a resident of Canada, I suspect that our median temperatures during winter months is lower than where your test vehicles operated. It could be interesting to see the correlation between ambient climate and differences in performance between heat pumps and PTC equipped vehicles.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Good question , on average we get around 0 degrees in winter and never any hotter than 22 /23 degrees in summer

[@danielcolceru3840]

This video was very useful. But I think in my region of the mountains where we get regularly in January -20° for at least two weeks and during the winter temperatures between -5 to -12°C, a heat pump might help. But indeed 900 Euros are a lot of money. I do own a small EV with a 27 kw battery during the winter my autonomy falls down between 35% to 50% because of the heating system, it gets down to 50% at -20°C.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Yes i really cold climates the heat pump is more essential, here in the uk we dont get sub -10 very often.

[@patrickmaartense7772]

since the heatpunp uses less energy it is always a good option. take ROI etc out of the equation and start looking into max energy savings, resitive heating is way less efficient and a good heatpump can also work as a good cooler

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching 👀 🙂

[@decimal1815]

Interesting! Thanks for taking the time to make this comparison.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching too 😊

[@marvinsamuels1237]

An extremely useful video Jonathan! Thank you for sharing this info, as it opens up peoples options with their purchases.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Marvin for your comments and support 👍

[@Banyan314]

The modern heat pump is only £750 and it is used to precondition the battery and heat the car. It does get cold in the UK and it would be interesting to see the same test done a long cold winter days, when batteries are less efficient.

[@CampervanTime]

Thanks for the comparison. Do you think the fact that both cars were in 'eco' when you were testing would have narrowed the gap at all? If they were in normal drive mode would the PTC heater have pulled more current?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Good point , yes 'eco' does restrict the heating a little , but with both in eco , the comparison is fair i think.

[@danwolf5033]

This is good information but it seems the test was done while idling. When I drive my ICE car, I run the heat full blast, recirculate the air, until it gets hot (nice and hot, like sitting next to a cozy fireplace). Then I use outside air and lower the fan and temp to a more reasonable range. So my question is when driving and using the heat is the range loss more significant in both Niros? Another KZbinr with an Ioniq 5 indicates he gets around 180-190 in winter and he is about 100 miles away so similar weather to me.

[@mad4tar77]

By your figures it takes approx. 3 times as long to heat or cool the cabin.

[@richardhaywoodh]

Another great video. some really interesting data there. The figures showing the 2 slightly more efficient for a couple of months are a puzzle. I know the 39kWh KONA V the 64kWh version has a slightly higher efficiency mi/kWh but as your 2 Niros were 64kWh that is a puzzle

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching and your comments, yes the 2's better efficiency in june / july is a mystery 😀

[@jtchivers]

Great stuff, Jon! Makes absolute sense, that. On a 64 kWh set-up, the difference is hardly relevant, so the benefit of the heat pump is negligible in that case. Thanks for sharing your findings. It's far more useful to see stats over multiple real-world examples than from an individual too. 👍

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks John 👍 😊

[@jaysinha0]

Very surprised with this result. I have seen range hammered by resistive heaters in electric cars which don't have heat pumps.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

I was suprised too , but these stats from the Geo tabs dont lie ! And most drivers are 'new' ev drivers , so they driving no differently!

[@Joe-ud2hb]

Great experiment Johnathon, keep up the good work 👌

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Joe 👍

[@vlogospheer]

In Canada only the base trim doesn't come with a heat pump on the new 2023 Niro but I'm lead to believe that it comes with both a resistive heating element and the heat pump.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Interesting 🤔👍

[@ianrobins5501]

interesting video thank you for showing the difference. i think the HP will make a bigger difference in the new Niro as it has battery preconditioning. i hope to find out how the HP is used in December when mine arrives??

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching, and enjoy your new niro ev 👍

[@douglaslitt9423]

Was the difference in summer efficiency between the two cars due to the heat pump actually requiring some energy from the system to function? In the winter it gives more than it takes, but that's not the case in the summer, so the overall effect is negative? Does that idea make sense, it does in my head, but maybe that's just me.

[@electroplank587]

I would insist they come as standard regardless of these tests, not exactly sure of the specifics but others manufacturers use the heat pump to conditions the battery for charging. aldo efficiency if better for the environment which is what EVs are aiming to achieve.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Not all manufacturers fit heat pumps 'as standard ' hence my video . Thanks for your comments 🙂 👍 Not all heat pumps condition the battery either , with the 64kWh e niro , only the 4+ spec will heat the battery if at -5 temps whilst rapid charging to help charge rates.

[@johngowers8045]

E nero 64kw 4 new ver I thought it helps with charging In the uk i only see full speed 77kw in july aug when temp is 20c on a 150kw charger And it cuts down to 50kw at 50% 33kw at 70% Rest year im lucky to get 48kw from a 150kw charger And you only see that when going down to 20% left or below

[@farhan_zahir]

Thanks Jonathan, this video was really helpful and i've decided not to opt-in for the heat pump in my new Kia Niro EV.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and support 👍

[@begley09]

Some people I know who own EVs swear by the heat pump. I live in Canada,Ontario where, although not as cold as very Northen parts or out West Alberta, it still does get chilly here. Some claim in winter the range will drop by 30% because they do not have a heat pump.

[@OraEtLabora0]

surely one is not stuck in a vent, but room temperature matters more? and since you have same volume of air, ambient temperature, you can compare them. 🤷‍♂

[@JonathanPorterfield]

The niro 2 is black and was sitting in the sun so i felt the best way to measure its speed at heating and cooling was with a probe in the vent. My Blue e niro is a colour that heats up less quick in direct sunlight , so again a probe in the vent was more acurate that the cabin air temperature.

[@paulwilliams9537]

Very interesting video and makes me doubt my decision to opt for the Heat Pump on the new Niro EV Trim 3..... Curious how the video would show different results in the winter though as some people have said. Do you by chance know how heavy the heat pump is roughly? Many thanks for the video

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and watching, and ive no idea on the weight on the heat pump gubbins. And i will re test these e niro in the winter 👍

[@Lewis_Standing]

Isn't the air conditioning unit on all cars a heat pump? And the heat pump for heating as an option on cars a more powerful heat pump with the ability to reverse the heat exchange?

[@deepsdeepskiski9621]

With regards to why heat pump Nero 4+ was less efficient then non heat pump Nero 2 in the middle of summer , My best educated guess is the Drivers have learnt to maximise the economical efficient driving during the colder weathers so when the hotter months requiring air-con equalises the climate control demand in both cars, and therefore those drivers with no heat pump use their learned driving techniques to max the miles range from driving efficiency gains.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Interesting idea , here in Orkney most of the niro 2 drivers are new to evs , so yes they may have changed their driving styles 😀, thanks for watching 👀 🙂

[@Vibethelife]

I have a kia nero hybrid 2023 I use it to go winter car camping in the mountains with friends and the thing thats annoying is that if i put it in nuteral with the car engine on to blast the heating all night the engine starts and wakes me up after 5 mins then turns itself back off wich disrupts my sleep. Is there away around this so i can have the heating on without being disrupted every 5 mins be much better if the engine came on every hour instead of 5 mins. I put the car in eco mode is there something i can do to avoid it coming on so frequently.

[@kinross24]

It’s obviously more efficient and effective in winter as it’s scavenging heat from the motor and battery to transfer to cabin heat or scavenging heat from the motor to heat the battery. In warmer months it’s not required but the extra weight will cause higher consumption.

[@chrisstleger9181]

How does a PTC Niro ev keep the main battery cool or hot to benefit rapid charging speeds?

[@ksmith660]

Interesting! When I compare my Tesla M3 SR+ (old with out heat pump) with my new SR+ (with heat pump) I find I get on average 10 more miles range in winter, if I adjust the figures due to different battery sizes. However if I look at efficiency for a full year (same mileage of 12,000 miles/year) the new (with heat pump) got 250 Watt/mile compared to without heat pump of 290 Watt/mile making it nearly 14% more efficient! Still that would have only saved £42 in electricity, so not a big saving...

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and interesting figures you have on your experience with the M3,s with and without heatpump.

[@MichaelWilliams-mo1vv]

The heat pump is certainly more efficient. However in the case of these 2 particular vehicles they have huge batteries and a roughly 200 mile range. The chances are if you lost say 7 miles in the vehicle without the heat pump you wouldn't fret too much as with a near 200 mile range you shouldn't have 'range anxiety' and be able to comfortably reach any destination. Even a journey of 500 miles would only require a couple of rapid charges.

[@johngowers8045]

Charging speed ? I thought its a lot better in winter with a heat pump My 64 kw e nero 3 is bad when cold max i see is 44kw from a 150kw charger

[@JonathanPorterfield]

A cold battery does charge slower , the 4+ has the ability to heat the battery , but only at -5 degree temps

[@johngowers8045]

My e nero 3 only charges at it max speed 77kw when temp is 22c or above If out side temp 15c max i see is 44kw speed it cold gates when cold In uk 15c in norm only get 22c for 4 weeks a year & only seen 77kw then From 150kw charger after driving at 50 mph for 30 min at 20 % soc

[@WirelessGriff]

Thanks Jonathan- useful review!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and watching 👀 🙂

[@commuterbranchline8132]

The Tesla Model 3 & Y come with heat pump as standard. 2024 Tesla model 3 comes with heated and cooled front seats as well as all the tech and safety kit, greater efficiency and price reduced below £40k while top spec Kia 4 now £42,295 without heat pump. Kia are offering low rate finance on some models, which may be useful these days.

[@jamesbarber4910]

I didn’t like your test as you set the temperature first in the 4+ then the stopwatch and Vice a versa in the other car 😢

[@JonathanPorterfield]

OCD ?? 🤣🤣

[@ians3328]

For a heat pump to work don;t you actually need to be driving the car as it is taking some heat from the batteries ?

[@Timstravels01]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing JP.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Tim 👍

[@Paulisherebrewing]

my niro my20 has no heat pump, not an option in Ireland, turning on the heater I would lose 40 to 50 kms, try the test with a higher fan speed as it sounds like you had the fan on low.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Fan was on max 👍

[@Paulisherebrewing]

@@JonathanPorterfield ah OK couldn't hear it on the video, just seemed a little low on the range drop.

[@robfee2065]

Brilliant stuff, thought it would make a big difference, sucked in by marketing again!!!!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comment !

[@Eric-lx8hp]

Man that is so cheap of KIA not to make that mandatory esp in Canada

[@richardalford4437]

Is it only the 4 plus that comes with the heat pump. And is it on all 4 plus models. Thanks

[@JonathanPorterfield]

The 3 and 4 trims have the heat pump. Its the entry spec 2 that doesn't. The e niro ( old shape) 4+ all have heat pump

[@richardalford4437]

@@JonathanPorterfield thanks for the reply thinking of getting one for a taxi in Plymouth do roughly 150 miles per shift so should have plenty of range. Enjoy your videos really helpful 👍

[@nga319]

Thanks for the interesting video, and greetings from germany.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Hi Germany! Thanks for your comments and watching 👀 🙂

[@chrisbrooking]

The test doesn't tell you much if you live somewhere cold. If the winter temperatures are sub zero for a week I think your result would be different.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Im repeating the test in December/ January

[@boxcampus4153]

you are trying it in summer weather. That's not what it's for.

[@NicoSteinacker]

Great video!! You can (barely) hear the heatpump working in my Ioniq - and its one more part that can get defective. Your video makes it even more possible I will not have a heatpump in my next EV again. 👍

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching 👀 🙂

[@charlesamery-behr3153]

As pointed out by PinballGeorgio, the headlamp does not transfer heat from outside to the cabin. It transfers heart from the battery to the cabin. I am frankly surprised that your test showed a difference. The heat pump will therefore make the most difference on a longer trip. See this test between two ID3s. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJ-tkqCKqNWGg5I The reason the heat pump car charged slightly slower after the test was probably because the battery was cooler due to the heat pump cooling the battery..

[@thomaschilds8781]

What are the Y axis units on the graph?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Months of the year along the bottom , and the other axis is miles per kWh

[@thomaschilds8781]

@@JonathanPorterfield So in winter, you lose 10% by not having a heat pump (0.3/3.0mpk). Thats like having a 6.4kwh smaller battery just when you need it most. Also, you won't lose all £900 for the upgrade, as it will form part of car's residual value. If we say 50% over first 3 years, thats £150/yr for the heat pump. In my case, I would choose the heat pump. This video has been valuable to help me make a decision.

[@roelhellemans2451]

Confused: how does a car without a heat pump do the cooling as you showed?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Ac unit with compresser

[@roelhellemans2451]

@@JonathanPorterfield Yes and everyone else puts an reversing valve on their AC to get the heat ih the cabin instead of cool, its called a reversible AC unit. Tesla uses a "quadra-valve" so that one heatpump heats and cools cabin, motors and battery pack as required.

[@spearmap]

The heat pump is standard in Canada

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Probably as you get very cold winter temperatures? Uk is not nearly as extreme in winter !

[@nikrobinson7328]

The vent measurement is a very poor way to measure this, you are just measuring the speed it takes for the climate control unit to out put at a said temperature. This does not measure the flow of the heat exchange. Measuring the ambient temperature in the centre of the vehicle or even better the dead space of the rear bench seat would be a far better way to measure how long and how much energy it takes to change the cabin temperature.

[@terryjimfletcher]

I was puzzled as to the "speed to get to 27C" test ~ that just tells you what the thermal enertia is? - surely a better test would have been what's the kWh consumption to keep the car at 27C for (at least) 1 hour and compare the two systems? === From kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJ-tkqCKqNWGg5I the difference in an ID.3 was: Heat pump 165Wh/km 3.77 miles /kWh PTC 177Wh/km 3.51 miles /kWh ~7% less efficient === From kzbin.info/www/bejne/poiwon-iaNNonpI re-tested ID.3s at **minus nine** : 264km range using PTC -v- 287km range 8% difference ------- Should we just rely on heated seats then????

[@MarkAtkin]

You've just put my mind at rest. I'm looking at used EVs with more range to replace my 30kWh Leaf. I'll stop worrying about whether the car has a heat pump or not.

[@jogabhambra6606]

Great video!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments 🙂 👍

[@garrycroft4215]

Physics doesn’t lie. If the PTC uses 3kw in one hour of running then a heat pump will use 1kw in one hour. If this wasn’t the case then there would be no heat pumps fitted to houses ever. You would save all that money by just using electric heaters.

[@nigelweir3852]

It does matter

[@paulaxford6754]

I would have to wonder if those EV drivers without a heat pump were less inclined to use heating? Only because my Kona has a heat pump and I use it whenever I feel cold without any concern about range, but I wouldn't be so casual if I only had the PTC. But I'll also note that under about 7°C the PTC will switch on first to cover the minute or two that the heat pump needs to carry out a defrost cycle. I can see on the power screen that it can pull 3 kW easily while the heat pump draws 0.6 to 0.8 kW. The heat pump is what sold me on the Kona (along with the range) and I doubt I'd consider an EV in the future without that.

[@otleybull]

I wish I’d have watched this before ordering the new Niro EV with a heat pump

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching though !

[@FancyaBevMate]

More importantly with this data why should we be swapping gas or electric boilers for heat pumps! Cheers

[@JonathanPorterfield]

My air to air source heat pump is brilliant in our house , 1kW in, results in 3kW of heat out !

[@FancyaBevMate]

@@JonathanPorterfield strange how vehicles differ so much isn't it. Maybe kia has perfected the ptse so heat pumps aren't needed maybe they should produce a ptse for homes negating heat pumps :)

[@djenson]

@@FancyaBevMate The PTC heater is 100% efficient. That will never change. Heat Pumps are 350%+ efficient, and improving year on year. You can buy a PTC heater from aldi for £20. Use it to heat your home over winter and you will see why they are not used as the main heating source in a home.

[@FancyaBevMate]

@@djenson yes but it looks like the Koreans have found a way to make ptc as efficient as heat pumps as this data on the video clearly shows.? Cheers

[@djenson]

@@FancyaBevMate This video data doesn't show that. It's shoes that with larger battery's, the efficiencys achieved by a heatpump saving 5Kw doesn't really matter

[@rs99rs99]

Well, there's nothing in this world done by magic. Under all, energy consumption is energy consumption, you heat up to a number you need a number of energy.. My experience with an old Tesla without heat pump shows no real measurable difference to a Tesla same trim but with heat pump from my neighbor. We have tested it on a drive, and under Austrian Alps conditions. Other factors are much much more impacting e.g. rims, wheels, open windows, driving behavior, your inside temperature level, etc. And most is the speed of course. But not all features you buy are always to be meaningful. Anyhow I think we are all efficiency freaks at some point and this is ok :-)

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for your comments and great info re the Tesla with and without heat pumps. Yes we all become obsessed with efficiency, which is no bad thing ! 👍😉

[@Mk1Laser]

Will you run the same tests in a new Niro? Your results may then be accurate- you say you don't understand why the top models had lower efficiency in some months- the answer is heated seats- this will also reduce the differential even in the coldest months. so your figures can never be accurate Some 2 models are lighter / smaller batteries! Finally, there are no resale figures in the results.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

All e niro 2 in my tests and data have the same 64kWh batteries, so weights are the same. The heated seats use such a small amount of power that it's not measurable.

[@Mk1Laser]

@@JonathanPorterfield@JonathanPorterfield, an electric heating element is not measurable. Well, I think it is, and you have measured it in months 5--7. if it isn't the seats, what is it? You can't just shrug your shoulders and ignore it, as it will distort your figures all year! It may be a peculiarity or fault on the e-nero and reducing your perseved benefit of the HP. If you are so confident, we are back to my actual question, and then there is resale! You are advising people who are buying a different model based on potentially flawed data.

[@simoncarlton638]

Your comparison is flawed as the Niro 4 is less efficient on average because of size of wheels and weight before you consider the heat pump, making the difference seem less than it is. If you had compared a Niro 2 with heat pump with a Niro 2 without your results would of made sense. The heat pump is worth it unless you do short journeys and have someone else pay for your electricity, I am guessing that doesn't apply to many.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Both the kia e niro 2 and 4+ are quoted at 2230kg , and the wheel/ tyre sizes are the same.