Kick-assassin: Shinobi | Segaiden 062

[@michaelsriqui7898]

The Sega-Namco rivalry would especially heat up during the 32-bit era. Ridge Racer vs Daytona USA, Virtua Cop vs Time Crisis, and Virtua Fighter vs Tekken. These would define the arcade scene.

[@cj694x2]

Yep, and that's when you finally see it really spill over onto the home console scene as well, with Namco heavily supporting the PlayStation.

[@robbyrobot3303]

Virtua Fighter vs Tekken is a true Tortoise and the Hare story. Sega always chased bleeding edge tech while namco partnered with Sony on PlayStation derivative hardware The history of arcades is so important to game history, and very few channels outside this one address it. The PlayStation may have never taken off without their partnership with namco and system11 board

[@AndrewAmbrose]

I'm so glad you acknowledged Namco and Sega's rivalry. It's truly an underrated piece of gaming history.

[@todesziege]

Namco's importance in general is underrated. They basically carried the original PlayStation for much of its life, for instance.

[@AndrewAmbrose]

@@todesziege YES

[@SEGAClownboss]

The Namco-Sega rivalry is something I never considered, but you brought a really good case for it. Thank you.

[@ValkyrieTiara]

Same! Little nuggets of insight like that are the immensely satisfying chunks of cookie dough in the retrospective ice cream.

[@apollosungod2819]

If you take your head out of the U.S.A. limitations and focus on Japan, Sega was an upstart arcade rival while Namco reigned supreme... why wouldn't they be rivals? Enter Capcom... another rival... Taito? Another rival. Etc etc.

[@ValkyrieTiara]

@@apollosungod2819 First, there's no need to be rude. Second, you're wrong anyway. Sega and Namco's histories both extend back beyond arcade video games by decades; Namco is only about 5 years older than Sega (Sega is actually the older company if you count it's predecessors) and by the time the 1980s rolled around they were both industry veterans of coin operated amusements. Calling Sega an "upstart" in the 1980s arcade industry is completely ridiculous. Furthermore, if you want to talk about "getting your head out of the US and focusing on Japan" you should understand how Japanese business works. Calling every other company in the industry a "rival" isn't really how Japanese companies do business. In general, Japanese companies care less about how successful other players in the industry are as long as they themselves are also seeing success in their own endeavors, and are completely willing to work together if they can find a way for it to be mutually beneficial. This is why crossover promotions in Japanese media are so common. Companies being true rivals is relatively rare compared to the west, and typically reserved either for companies with bad blood between leadership (such as a company founded by a spurned employee) or for the biggest players in an industry who have trouble growing without taking market share from each other.

[@SEGAClownboss]

@@apollosungod2819 I'm European.

[@ostiariusalpha]

​@@SEGAClownbossYou 🤡ed him.

[@DaRoblin]

I picked this game up with my Sega Master System back in 2016 or so. There's something about this game I don't get from most titles. I was absolutely and mercilessly hooked. The game's rhythm was so satisfying. Going in for melee kills had that risk-reward balance I crave. Indented as a test-game or holdover until I could play audio-patched Phantasy Star, it totally blew my expectations away. My Master System journey rewarded me with banger after banger. First Shinobi, then Wonder Boy Monster World, Outrun, and Phantasy Star. I regret not investing in the system much much earlier. This video's framing of Sega at this time in rivalry with Namco was a really fascinating nugget of insight and context. Thank you.

[@crtchicanery9605]

I spent a while playing Ghosts n Goblins, Rolling Thunder, Shinobi, etc earlier this year and I'm really glad I did. I feel like that era of arcade platformers is a blind spot in lots of gaming discussions. We just treat Super Mario Bros as the nexus point from which all platformers sprang forth, which makes 80s platformers with slow movement and no air control (like Castlevania) difficult to decipher. People assume CV was subverting Mario deliberately instead of belonging to a lineage of high quality action platformers that all felt similar to it. More people should play these games!

[@absolutezeronow7928]

The on location shoots with the original arcade game are definitely an element that work well. I should play Sega Ages Shinobi one of these days. Also interesting mention of Ninja Five-0 since Limited Run appears to be re-releasing that.

[@Athesies]

A video about shinobi and theres a xevious mention in the first 90 seconds? You know this is gonna be a good one

[@InfectiousGroovePodcast]

YES! I absolutely LOVED my Master System copy of Shinobi. So glad to see it covered now.

[@DanChippendaleMusic]

I was so obsessed with Shinobi as a child. The arcade version first then when it was released for yhe Master System (although it was too hard for me so never finished it). Now I've played Elden Ring several times, maybe i should return and see how well i fare). Thanks for making this. Its triggered a lot of nostalgic feelings. Subbed 👍👍

[@danielespeziari5545]

This is undoubtedly one of my favorite Master System games. It's not easy at all, actually it took me a long time to beat it. Especially because later levels have jumps that must be performed perfectly, otherwise you fall into a pit and lose all your life and weapon upgrades, and you really need them at that point. You didn't mention the soundtrack, which basically consists of the same song throughout the game, but it's so pleasing to the ears that I never get tired of listening to it

[@RemnantCult]

My favorite part of the first shinobi is how Joe Musashi seems to be progressive in his discipline and technique because he sometimes opts to use firearms when on the field given the chance. He doesn't hold his nose against potentially useful weapons, it seems.

[@RemnantCult]

Given the fact that most Ninja in media at the time were mysterious ancient warriors and assassins with a strict feudal code, Joe's a welcome change. A truly modern ninja of his day.

[@MrERLoner]

Samurai had codes. Ninja got the jay oh bee done

[@jorymil]

One of the definitive arcade games of my youth. The NES had the Tengen port, and I owned a Tiger handheld LCD version. You might be interested in covering those for selected games.

[@toaker]

I like watching these video because it gives me an insight into what I’m missing out on with systems I don’t own or want to own. I hope you do a PCEngine works someday.

[@JeremyParish]

You're gonna have a great 2025, my friend

[@hecosean]

Id say for the longest time the SMS was the best way to play this outside of the arcade. (TG-16 version looks nice but has many issues) Sega Ages version is great though. The two hit system really helps learn the game and then you can tackle a pretty much identical arcade version. Also love the soundtrack to this game.

[@gun_toucher_LLC]

by his own account, OST from this notable influence on hip-hop producer Just Blaze

[@fangjokerLS]

This was one of the first SMS games I got. I've never won a bonus stage on it, but the rest of the gameplay was just so solid it made Shinobi one of my favorite series of all time.

[@EnbyeonTTV]

Love this game. Thank you for covering it.

[@pokehybridtrainer]

Grew up with Sega and Nintendo, never knew the 80s arcade battles going on. Great insight to bring up.

[@GeekatHome]

A game so fun they made an Alex Kidd AU!

[@connorkiss2614]

Commenting to say your videos are great

[@mr.nobody7958]

Love your videos. Keep it up man!

[@mikececconi2677]

Your channel's running gag of pretending there was a game called "Xevious" is brilliant long-burn comedy and I love it.

[@rootbeer_666]

Some will call it “gaslighting” but I’ll accept “comedy”

[@MrERLoner]

Polyvius??

[@ladambell]

I had Code Name: Viper for the NES growing up, and it was wild when I finally saw footage of its predecessor Rolling Thunder years later. It seemed so bizarre to me, like someone had tried to recreate Viper in MS Paint.

[@KarnovJr]

Arc System Works actually worked on both the NES/Famicom version of Rolling Thunder and Code Name Viper. Yep they were around long before Guilty Gear and Blazblue

[@jamesmoss3424]

The Sega Master System version of Shinobi 🥷 is awesome. 😀👍🎮

[@JONNYSORENSEN_AU]

Another brilliant retrospective in depth video. I played a lot of both Rolling Thunder and Shinobi on the original machines back when they released. They often had them at fish and chip shops in new zeland. Typically the following year after they were rotated out of the bigger arcades in the city. When I rented the SMS Shinobi it was a bit of rude awakening. But looking back I don't mind it now, it has its charms. Used to watch a guy at the local shop finish Shinobi regularly on one credit.

[@ValkyrieTiara]

Shadow Dancer on the Genesis is a personal childhood classic. As an easily discouraged kid with ADHD to boot, not to mention generally preferring my SNES and even NES to my Genesis, it says something about its fun factor and overall quality that I put enough time and practice into it that I managed to get to the final stages as a pre-teen (even if I never did clear it). As someone who never cared for Sonic, Shadow Dancer and Streets of Rage (and to a lesser extent hidden gem Trampoline Terror) were the primary reasons I kept my Genesis on hand as long as I did. But even back then I always had the sense that it was a sequel or port of some other game, probably from the arcade, but could never pin down what. Interesting to finally have that mystery solved lol Great video as usual, Jeremy!

[@bjornh1527]

One of the best ports to Master System, and one of the finest action games on the platform!

[@robertlauncher]

Also I didn’t have any context for the arcade Shinobi when I played it on the Sega compilation I had. It being a Rolling Thunder style game makes a lot more sense than a slower predecessor to the fast paced sequels.

[@balaam_7087]

You’re standing in what I imagine Heaven will look like. Instead of St. Peter, it’s St. Parish meeting me at the Pearly Arcade Cabinets

[@MrERLoner]

Yes. But have you accepted Xevious in your heart as your salvation shooter?

[@chamchamtrigger]

You already had me with the review of Shinobi. Then you had to show Space Harrier (my favorite game) and PS2 Shinobi (my favorite PS2 game)? The perfect video. As for the rivalry with Namco, as a child of the 80s, I can't believe I never noticed the rivalry between those two companies until Ridge Racer and Tekken came out. Even then, I didn't really notice the rivalry, just that they were making pretty related games like Soul Blade and Last Bronx. Before then, like most, I focused on the Sega/Nintendo rivalry, and kind of noticed a lot of Taito "super scrollers" (a company with my favorite music composers Zuntata).

[@tobiassoderlund7098]

Two things between me holding Shinobi on the Master System as a masterpiece. 1. The jump at stage 4-2 and 2. The boss Madara and the insane precision demanded to make the time available suffice.

[@cj694x2]

@@tobiassoderlund7098 Agreed. The jump I was finally able to master, but that damn boss is the reason I've never beat the game.

[@Larry]

IT was frustrating that Sega did an amazing job porting Shinobi to the SMS, but when they did the same with E-SWAT was essentially Shinobi with a cop, it was utterly dire.

[@DefendYoungstown]

I remember owning an ATARI game (by SEGA) called TAC-SCAN... and on the cart, they had a tagline "the arcade experts". I always thought it was a weird boast until later on, because I had only rarely seen any actual SEGA arcades compared to, say, Namco, Midway, or Data East.

[@FrothingManiac]

I love this game. It was an early adoption for me when I first started collecting Master System and the system's library was fresh to me. I genuniely love the slower pace of the game and it's atmosphere. The small sprite make connecting shots, melee attacks and high-jumping between enemies very mechanically satisfying and neat. With that said, the boss at 15:01 is awful, and I can see you are about to die in your footage. I think I've gotten past this once. Each time you reach it at full power, you have a few seconds to figure out the optimal way to defeat it without being crushed, but you nearly always fail. Standing in place doesn't work, walking up to it doesnt work. And if it's possible to do it after losing a life on no powerups then I'll be amazed.

[@robertlauncher]

I kept forgetting Gaiden means side story and expecting a ninja game. Well, here it is!

[@philmason9653]

The arcade Shinobi is one of the most perfect, tightly playing games in all of history. I didn't really get into it until the AGES version on Switch, but I fell in love with it and passed 50 hours played in search of the 1CC (still don't have it, the last mission is brutal). One of these days I'll check out the MS version, it's such a storied port. Does Contra really fit into the discussion in terms of influence on Rolling Thunder? Online sources seem to have it listed as a Feb 1987 JP arcade release.

[@cerberus144]

There have been 0 days since last Xevious reference.

[@lhfirex]

I never played either the arcade or SMS version of Shinobi, so I only really know it through the Genesis sequels. But I'm going Segagaga over these videos.

[@orderofmagnitude-TPATP]

My second ever game. My first was choplifter (along with hang on and snail maze, safari hunt)

[@schreppybroepke]

I have always loved how Alex Kidd in Shinobi World is basically a chibi-fied retelling of this game 🤣

[@nathandaniels4823]

Jeremy, while I’d probably agree with you that Sega didn’t really know what they were doing with their home consoles until Sonic, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that they viewed their console attempts as merely a secondary revenue stream. I’d also posit that Sega’s dedication to the home market was solidified as early as Phantasy Star I. Reading various interviews from Shmupulations, as well as being a Sega fan from at least as early as Alex Kidd and (Arcade) Shinobi, it’s fairly well established that Sega had grand ambitions of being the #1 console company with the Mark III, but *especially* the Mega Drive. The problem, as you’ve rightly pointed out, is that because of their long arcade experience, it took Sega much longer to realize that success at home required more than just good ports of games like Altered Beast. That said, while Sega still had their Golden Axes and Super Thunder Blades, they also were learning how to properly console with games like Castle of Illusion and Sword of Vermilion and the best console RPG of its day, Phantasy Star II.

[@lupinzar]

Rolling Thunder and Shinobi, both classics! The RT series needs more love.

[@goranisacson2502]

I had watched retrospectives on Rolling Thunder, but I hadn't thought to equate that game to Shinobi, even though I played that game. Still, I see it now and I see it in proper context! Even if I don't think the MS version feels very interesting in comparison to the arcade original here...

[@remy333]

Hell yeasssss

[@streetmagik3105]

I played this cartridge to death. One of my favorite Master System games.

[@heavysystemsinc.]

Shinobi is cooler because ninjas are cooler. In the 80s, nothing was cooler than a ninja. Not even dry ice.

[@JetstreamGW]

Damn, I googled Ninja Five-O immediately after you mentioned it here and see that I missed a pre-order for a Switch version of the game by a few days. I clearly need to actually watch my patreon videos when I get the email.

[@superleviathan]

The Sega-Namco rivalray was a bit muted in the console space in the early 90's. The were one of the third parties to really go gun-ho on the Sega Genesis, and one of the very few to even touch the Game Gear. I guess you could call it a temporary truce until the Playstation came onto the scene.

[@trapmouth]

Magic Sword, Shinobi and SFII in that opening shot… 12 year old me would have worn the carpet out in front of all 3.

[@MrERLoner]

Not many arcade games do action RPG as well as Magic Sword did. Multiple party members? Check. A long ornate tower? Check. All the archetypal classes? Check..Majik? Check. Treasure, enchanted items, upgradeable weapons and loot? Check.

[@unoclay]

It's worth noting that, although the first person ninja throwing star sections might be not that much fun to play today, those things were eye-catching Dream Factory advertisement crack for children of the 1980s. It's definitely the first and most impressionable thing I remember about this game, never having owned it at home, but remember seeing a screenshots of the first person throwing star levels and thinking that the game looked incredible.

[@steuph1976]

Shinobi was the first (and not last) arcade conversion from a very cool and impressive game to the Master System* that was really bloody great and not just "well they tried their best" good. As it was slower paced and easier on you than the arcade game, I kind of preferred it even though it was less visually massive (the super slow and jerky move to the higher pane was a bit of a let down). Awesome game. (*Well, there were Wonder Boy and Choplifter but they weren't a super high bar)

[@Obscusion2]

Wait, would that "review" of Shinobi in Sega Challenge be a literal example of the mythical "objective review"?!

[@PapiCuatro0221]

I had the Shinobi NES version, and that game was unbelievably difficult with agonizing sound effects.

[@robogod3000]

Yeah!! Rolling Thunder & Shinobi, the Mother & Vather of ALL Run&Gun Games!! namco F O R E V E R ♥️ SEGA F O R E V E R 🌀🐒🦔🐬

[@larryb5677]

The only Shinobi game I ever played was Revenge of Shinobi on the Genesis. It was great, the best part being when you fight Spider-Man (who, true to the comics, turned into Batman when damaged enough).

[@RalphBarbagallo]

Ah, I didn't actually realize Rolling Thunder came out before Shinobi!

[@karinyupinyan]

While it's true in Rolling Thunder 1 I do wanna mention that in the second Rolling Thunder they actually did borrow Shinobi's infinite ability to bounce off of enemies. Rare instance of Rolling Thunder taking things from Shinobi instead of vice versa.

[@BladedEdge]

Best game on the master system, bar none. Shinobi is amazing.

[@AerikTitlesTitles]

I beat this game a few months ago. Whew, pretty tough, with some real difficulty spikes. I had to leave one kid behind in the last level to keep the chain weapon for the final boss. Sorry, kid, you shouldn't have brought me a nunchaku. 😅

[@MAYOFORCE]

Always been interested in this series, I took it internally as Sega's Ninja Gaiden where they're pretty similar looking games but with different design mindsets. But the only one I checked out was Revenge of Shinobi which I found awkward and frustrating. I should check out the PS2 game though, it seems up my alley.

[@kumohara_319]

NINJA FIVE-O MENTIONED!!

[@EhHold]

Great conversion but really needed another soundtrack or 2 from the arcade. Maybe the Wham sounding one haha

[@RetroHousecr]

the mandatory long jumps exclusive to the ms version are its worst part, usually halting your progress, not sure if the level select code softened that a bit for you, since it was my biggest problem with this version

[@JohnZyski]

Rivalries are great for art and business.

[@Mechanicoid]

Interesting... I wonder if Shinobi being a cop & ninja explains all the Ninja Police toys I used to see at flea markets back in the 80s & 90s?

[@andrewkaye2108]

I will say though, that Rolling Thunder copied a play mechanic from Elevator action, in that both characters went through specially marked doors to gain something, either secret plans, ( Elevator Action) or ammo upgrades. ( Rolling Thunder)

[@alex_-yz9to]

i read somewhere that the one thing they didnt bring in the conversion of shinobi was the actual ending... which is weird... you'd think they'd make it a block of text or something

[@mattiusg]

Loved both Rolling Thunder and Shinobi, and never made the connection

[@OldNick999-real1]

I actually have the Tengen version. I’m holding onto it purely because it’s a Tengen cartridge.

[@rogerjuniorchabot]

Didn't you make a game guide for the Ninja 5-0 Limited Run release?

[@invinoveritas2418]

0:04 happy 8/8

[@sneakyskunk1]

So the Rolling Thunder dude's name was Albatross? For some reason as a child I thought he was Maxwell Smart.

[@JeremyParish]

Maxwell Smart was never that cool

[@sneakyskunk1]

@@JeremyParish They did share a haircut though.

[@supercomputer276]

ALBATROSS?! ...No. (Anyone that gets that reference gets a cookie.)

[@anonymouskaiju9101]

It's funny you spend a lot of time going over the history of sega rivalries and how there 80's design processes made them more rivals for namco then nintendo. Because by the time that the 16 bit console war kicked off. The rivalry between capcom and snk was becoming the new main rivalry of arcades.

[@JeremyParish]

The Neo•Geo MVS was still two years away when Shinobi hit arcades. Street Fighter II wouldn't show up until two years after that. Those things have nothing to do with the state of affairs that gave us Shinobi?

[@anonymouskaiju9101]

@@JeremyParish Oh no I wasn't implying they did. You stated that sonic was the point where sega figured out console gaming, and by 91/92 the arcade rivalry between sega and namco while not dead had become overshadowed. I didn't mean it had anything to do with shinobi just making an observation

[@JeremyParish]

Gotcha

[@littleterr0r]

ACAB means even Shinobi.

[@7kurisu]

really have to figure out how MAME emulators work!! for real tho, ACAB!!

[@Retroman8000]

No no no magic sword to your right needs a player

[@gfhrtshergheghegewgewgew1730]

it does look like an nes game, albeit one with a larger color palette and resolution

[@larryhastings4958]

A small correction. At 3:11, you say "Compare that to the NES space, where more than a dozen games had offered battery or password saves by mid-'88, and you can see that Sega largely approached console design with the same mindset as Atari and its 7800: an extension of the vending amusement business, rather than a compliment." Atari launched the 7800 in 1986--but this was Atari Corporation, Jack Tramiel's Atari. Atari Corporation was created in 1984 when Warner Communications sold the Atari consumer products division to Jack; Warner kept the arcade division, which was rechristened Atari Games. So I don't think it's accurate to describe Atari Corporation's approach to the 7800 as having anything whatsoever to do with the vending amusement business, as that's one market Jack Tramiel never entered.

[@JeremyParish]

Hi, I've already covered the first few years of 7800 releases here. The 7800 was designed by Atari Inc. and slated for a 1984 launch that was derailed by the market crash; Atari Corp. picked it up after Warner divested itself of games and shipped it once retailers were open to video games again. The 7800's initial software lineup was programmed mainly by General Computer Corp. and consisted mostly of golden-age arcade ports. The 7800 didn't start to move away from that until late 1988/89. So, yes, it had very much been conceived AND presented as an arcade-at-home experience by the time Shinobi arrived.

[@barrymaslow8441]

You think SMS Shinobi is a better game than NES Rolling Thunder?! Wow.

[@JeremyParish]

I don’t think so, I know so

[@Retroman8000]

You should play the arcade games while doing your opening.

[@JeremyParish]

Yes people love looking at someone's back for 20 seconds

[@mortenera4423]

​@@JeremyParishHey, I bet your back looks sexy!

[@JeremyParish]

Nothing about me looks sexy, dude

[@kind2311]

Wrath of the Black Manta on NES is a sort of Shinobi clone. It's even more Shinobi-like than the *actual* awful NES port.

[@krad2520]

They also had very similar box art. I used to mistakenly refer to Black Manta as Shinobi before I could really read as a little kid. I was in for a real nasty surprise when I finally bought a used copy of NES Shinobi later in life. Took *years* of feeling like I somehow hallucinated there being a 'better' version of Shinobi on the NES until I finally came across Black Manta again.

[@rootbeer_666]

So, was the Sega vs Nintendo home console rivalry in the ‘90s A Big Deal in Japan, or was it a contrivance of the companies’ [X] Of America counterparts? I ask because the marketing for things in Japan was often pretty different from that in America (e.g., angry-face Kirby, the weird obsession with gross-out/sex “humor” in ‘90s American video game marketing). Did Mega Drive do what Nintendon’t? Was Blast Processing ever even A Thing in Japan?

[@ginormousaurus8394]

I don't know what the marketing was like in Japan, but the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis didn't do as well in Japan as it did in North America. The Mega Drive was beaten to the market and outsold by NEC's PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 in Japan. Both of them were later outsold by the Super Famicom/SNES in Japan. Sega's highest selling console in Japan was the Saturn.

[@MaidenHell1977]

It's always bothered me how Sega never made a port for the Genesis.

[@RussellB]

Man, I sucked at this game

[@dannyjingu]

@6:57 You meant Magazine, NOT clip. A CLIP holds rounds together (which are a combination of :shell, gunpowder, bullet and primer. A Magazine, CONTAINS the rounds and feeds them into the gun. A Clip does not, nor does it ever, feed the gun, the next round.

[@MrERLoner]

TY Rambo