KILLERS Of The FLOWER MOON - The Popcorn Junkies Movie Review SPOILERS

[@morgainedepolloc4161]

Hi Mark--I am from the US and of American Indian heritage. By the time this film takes place, many tribes/nations had already been "removed" from their traditional lands and relocated to "reservations," which some might say were similar to internment camps. Also during this period, many children were taken from their families for "education" on how to integrate in "society." So...there are lots of variables at play during the period, that might lead an American Indian to marry an outsider (white person)--integration, safety of children, personal safety, and sometimes even loving bonds. ...and the reasons they married "back then" may not seem proper today. Plus there were struggles between tribes/nations as they were "relocated" and crammed onto government designated "Indian land." It is all very complex and still impacts us today---look up some videos on reservations today, and specifically Pine Ridge. Thanks for reviewing. It has tempered my expectations.

[@morgainedepolloc4161]

And I will add...it is interesting to reflect on this history with the escalating war in Israel. "Who owns the land?"--indeed!!!

[@AnneTaylor79]

There Will Be Blood is a Paul Thomas Anderson film - not a Scorsese film.

[@sawalhaadderleys]

Yes we know that - we were comparing it’s morally dubious American frontier explorations - It’s Paul Thomas Anderson

[@Bluestockingbroad]

I think your take on Lily’s “character” is a bit offensive, Molly was a real person. They were all REAL people. As far as “naïveté with the indigenous peoples, it’s not naive, they’re value systems are different. The elder said it in the film “We value life.” Love you both but as someone who lives in Oklahoma and lives here on this land, I just have to say something. Lots of love

[@sawalhaadderleys]

It’s not about whether she is real - it’s about how she is depicted - it’s not about whether what happened actually happened - it’s about helping the viewer better understand the choices made by these charactera🙏

[@rolos140670]

at 7.00, it's similar to the illegal annexation of Hawaii

[@stephschulze4898]

Watched just enough of your review and the scores to know it’s worth a watch. Thanks. Will watch the rest once I’ve seen it to compare thoughts xx

[@reeceroberts621]

SPOILERS AHEAD Hello Mark and Nanny Di 👋🏾, had a nice enjoyable watch of your review which is always good when you can find something to keep you entertained manoeuvring through London on a night out 😁. Okay so *cracks fingers aka gets ready to text type* Both of you made very salient points regarding “Killers of the flower moon”. For me as you may remember Mark from me informing you about my viewing of it at LFF, from Martin Scorsese’s introductory speech 🎤 in person and his “Osage” chief executive consultant, it was made to feel like a very auspicious occasion in conjunction with the centrefold importance of shedding this never seen before light on this tragic historical erasure almost of this tribe of men and women but a part of me did have some doubts as to whether it would fulfil that intention wholeheartedly alongside the fact that Martin Scorsese now in his octogenarian decade, judging from his last couple films “Silence” (2016) (a movie I really enjoyed and felt moved by), “The Irishman” (2019) a film in which I enjoyed the familiar gangster crime beats Scorsese explores but narratively didn’t move me emotionally) and so I additionally wondered if “Killers” was going to be reminiscent of that long meditative pace of storytelling or if the trailers as shown was going to be more of an 90’s- 2000’s Scorsese high key energised at times frenetic but nonetheless engaging pace of storytelling and so yeah those were my initial thoughts 💭 before viewing and so will now delve into my summarised/overall thoughts/experience of this film. For me, “Killers of the flower moon” had great moments, great performances and crisp, gorgeous cinematography (The Mis En Scene 🎬 was top notch throughout) however even amongst those qualities, it still didn’t quite reach the threshold I was initially hoping for prior to watching and I’ll tell you why. 1) I know Mark and Nanny Di, you guys didn’t feel an issue with the pacing and for me I too do enjoy long form films of Martin’s, (most favourable of recent years “Silence”) but past the 1st Act, the pacing there on at times felt quite languid and for me became a causality of the Perkiness (humour) whether intentional or not that became the continuing force in later moments of the film which I think did a huge disservice to what could’ve been much more potently powerful or emotional affecting sequences principally concerning the ongoing horror that was being enforced upon the “Osage” tribe men and women. The Courtroom section in particular harkening back to Nanny Di’s point of being theatrical, I found boring, repetitive and tedious - not to mention “Brendan Fraser” Lawyer character felt directionless in bad way, couldn’t ascertain if what became laughable of his character was intentional or if we were meant to take him seriously. I also felt due to pacing, what initially felt like a broad, expansive cover of Oklahoma as we were initially drawn to in the opening began to feel awkwardly small and repetitive where by the second-third act we are just observing Leo and De Niro’s character mope about the same settings and same conversations which did feel frustrating for me. 2) the lack of focal perspective given to Lily Gladstone’s character and her family like Mark mentioned also did become an issue for me not only in it affecting what wouldve been richer plot thread lines getting into the intricacies of the prey (Osage) and the predator (White Men) but we also lacked getting further insight into their cultural practices and their spirituality (The Storm and the wedding ceremony was just about what we were able to glean). In Addition Mark you mentioned the contextual importance of Lily’s “Mollie” being a totemic character but equally expressed your disappointment in the underwritten aspects to her character being more nuanced and more empowered with depth and I too share those sentiments and ultimately the prime focus pov of the story being between Leo’s “Ernest” and De Niro’s “Hale” aka dominant white perspective is an issue that Osage consultant “Christopher Cote” has expressed via the Hollywood Reporter which you can look up if you want to gage different perspective of someone of that descent who has complicated feelings about the film’s narratological direction. 3) the flippant metafictional radio 📻ending which again contextually is valid and props for Martin going experimental and upending typical narrative arc but like you also said Mark which is how I feel on this issue, I would’ve much preferred a more traditional denouement wrap of the core characters ending whether that be montage or quick artistic sequences but something keeping it in the filmic world as opposed to pulling us out and one thing a friend of mine mentioned regarding that radio 📻 scene is Martin should’ve have co-read or even given that last line to Lily Gladstone to represent her reclaiming her voice which is pretty much silenced for the majority of the film which would’ve hit harder emotionally into that final tribe chant circle ⭕️ sequence. With that said, I thought Martin’s way of showing the brutal violence (often choosing to display the gruesome cold hearted murders happening in an otherwise peaceful pleasant scenery as another reminder that nature and the environment keep on moving in spite of disturbing acts of evil) was very effective and strong choice, Leo’s oscillating performance very absorbing (wished he could’ve had to contend with hurting even killing his own associates and inner circle to maintain allegiance to Lily and the Osage inner family). Felt the final confrontation between Mollie and Him was handled brilliantly and De Niro’s unrelenting and twisted turns were great alongside the porous open hearted Lily Gladstone (highly recommend checking her out in Kelly Reichardt’s “certain women” (2016) and her in the second and third season of an Native American show produced by Taika Waititi called “Reservation Dogs” on Disney+) So for me I would say all in all 4/5 and if it was out of 100, probs 75!

[@sawalhaadderleys]

wow thanks for this Reece - will certainly check that piece you refer to in The Hollywood Reporter - and it would seem we agree on almost all points - the weirdest thing for me is that I found it VERY watchable - unlike The Irishman - I could have done with more spiritual depth to the Osage Tribal Community and YES - how powerful it could have been to have Lily on stage with Marty at the end ... so much to think about - please do reach out to Michelle with your email address - would love to one day meet for a coffee and chat!! xxx

[@reeceroberts621]

@@sawalhaadderleys yeah that would be great 😊👌🏾where do I find Michelle’s email/contact, trying to search for it across the channel haha

[@matthzzz95]

I thought the movie was really good as a whole, but I wasn't expecting Leo's character to be so clearly evil for the duration of the film. I don't think there's any question that he's malevolent, even if he was also being manipulated. He was, at times, eagerly and excitedly discussing plans to kill off his own wife's family. Then keeps on living with her (and poisoning her) like nothing's happened. I felt like the film (and certainly the trailers did) wanted us to be questioning his goodness, but that was answered for us the whole last 3 hours of the film imo. And it felt like it became obvious fairly quickly that he was involved in some way, yet Lily Gladstone's character hardly seems to ever question him - as her family is killed off one by one - until near the end. Or I could be wrong, and maybe the intent was actually for us to just be surprised by the sheer malevolence of his character.

[@sawalhaadderleys]

really agree with a lot of your points here ... I felt we needed more fro lily's character xx

[@bigem8431]

Agree with Mark about Lily character, didn’t believe she would fall for DiCaprio character at all (saw film today). So I struggled with that. Great moments though…..

[@angiegirl82]

I’ve not seen the film yet but I’ve watched some interviews and I found Lily really boring and ‘monotone’ as you say and I was hoping her acting/ character would be different. 🙈

[@Leesword1]

My biggest disappointment of the year :(