King Arthur and The Lord of the Rings

[@lonlaz]

Oh yes, I didn't realize till now that I need more King Arthur content and the internet needs a bigger King Arthur fandom.

[@Dyundu]

When you're ready to go down a weird Arthur rabbit hole, might I recommend Fate/Stay Night? 😁

[@VTimmoni]

Check out the music of Heather Dale. She has done several albums about the Arthur myth

[@carloscabello4392]

@@Dyundu The Fate series’ depiction of the Arthurian legends has nothing to do with the overall encompassing themes, tropes and ideas of the original works. Highly recommended to venture forth into the original romances, tales and works. Geoffrey of Monmouth, Chrétien de Troyes, Marke de France, Robert de Boron, the Vulgate Cycle, Thomas Malory; there will be a more loose, creative, entertaining and never ending rabbit hole than whatever waifus depict in the Fate anime.

[@JohnnyLodge2]

But in my canon Percival is Gawain's son with Lady Ragnel. And just as Gawain was only bested by Lancelot Percivale only by Galahad. Everyone else makes him the son of King Pellinor

[@carloscabello4392]

@@JohnnyLodge2 By any chance have you read the Roger Lancelyn Green retelling of the Arthurian legend? Because that’s the only work I’ve read that precisely depicts Percival as Gawain’s son.

[@zoobee]

King Arthur and Camelot are the root mythos of so much of our culture today. Even to the modern world, you can trace it in Dune, Harry Potter, Star Wars.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Absolutely!

[@BlahAnger]

In fact I did read lotr/dune and excalibur around the same time, and I blame my mom she tricked me.... thank you mom.

[@Antonio_DG]

But isn't anglosasson, is celtic post roman myth.

[@Dowlphin]

Star Wars also conveys christian concepts, about good and evil, temptation, corruption and redemption potential.

[@squamish4244]

@@Dowlphin Christianity is the ultimate root mythos/reality depending on who you are of European cultu5e, of course, from Ireland to Russia.Its stories were codified about 1,700 years ago. But Arthuria s next in line in Britain.

[@mayaaditi]

Jess of the Shire is never late. Nor is she early; she arrives precisely when she means to-and delivers the best content ❤

[@DanCooper404]

And she's very pretty.

[@gailjordan9170]

I often felt that the relationship between Aragorn and Gandalf seemed a bit like Arthur and Merlin. Then during one of my many rereadings of the Lord of the Rings, I came upon another thought. It was when Faramir was telling Eowyn that he loved her, and that he would love her even if she were the blissful queen of Gondor. Then I realized, Arwin was Morgan le Fae. , Eowyn was Guinevere, Faramir was Lancelot. What would have happened in Tolkien’s universe if Arwin had not married Aragorn? There would be a wonderful king, who turned to a lovely noble lady within his reach to marry, only to eventually find out that his queen and his most trusted knight had fallen in love with each other.

[@quinn5920]

Holy heck, this does NOT have enough likes/replies! I never thought of it like that!… probably because arthurian myth is, as has been pointed out in the video, incredibly confusing and a bit hard to dive into without dealing with the overly fluffy victorian works lol

[@MattMcIrvin]

"I am Arthur, I suppose... Arthur as he should have been!"

[@eschiedler]

"The Once and Future King" by T.H. White is a great introduction to the Arthurian legend, more of a young adult novel, and far more accessible than "Le Morte d'Arthur" by Mallory.

[@diegomardones6651]

I loved TH White and highly recommend it! But it is not just a retelling. White invents as he pleases such as with the Book of Merlyn if you include it. But more than that, he develops the story in a way that makes sense as a whole and allows him to dive into Arthur´s thoughts to reflect on the whole story, his life, and the future of humanity.

[@kryptonianguest1903]

The impression I got from Narnia is that Aslan straight up is God the Son. Not an allegory, the same entity wearing a different body. God the Father created multiple worlds and the Son manifests in each in a manner suitable to that world.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

Dominic Noble did a series of videos covering Narnia and they resulted in him making a t-shirt that said that Aslan was Jesus' fursona.

[@peterknutsen3070]

@@sebastianevangelista4921He is. It’s blatantly obvious. Lewis also harps endlessly about how important and valuable belief is. It’s good when a character is quick to believe in Aslan. That’s really annoying.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@peterknutsen3070 Yep!

[@josephfisher426]

@@peterknutsen3070 Maybe not always (I'd have to look), but it's *usually* framed against the poorly considered belief in baddies peddling BS. The characters are, after all, mostly children, and not independently authoritative.

[@josephturner7569]

I was bought the set for Saturnalia. I loved it and read it several times. One half term it rained all week so I read a book a day, even stopping at the appropriate place in Prince Caspian to read A Horse And His Boy. Then, when I discovered what it was really about, I had a Catcher In The Rye moment. And disposed of it.

[@TheSting251]

...And now i can feel my King Arthur hyper-fixation coming back😂 not that I'm complaining

[@somedandy7694]

C.S. Lewis tried to "sanctify" Merlin in the Space Trilogy in That Hideous Strength. Interestingly enough, he tests the protagonist by asking him where Numenor is.

[@banhammer3904]

The best part is when Merlin suggests that they request help from the Emperor, and is told that the current political leaders will do nothing.

[@chrisbixler4032]

Mary Stewarts “Merlin Trilogy” is my favorite take on it. The story is centered on Merlin, which I’m sure you’ll also be interested in, but the last book in particular takes place with Arthur as King, and it has a lot of very interesting interpretations of his acts. One is the child slaying, where Arthur legendarily tried to kill Mordred along with many other infants. Her language is beautiful, poetic. And she incorporates Christianity into a magical world with wonderful elegance. I hope you check it out!

[@user-so8fx3yp4s]

That is a really good trilogy. The fourth book about Mordred was interesting in it made him very sympathetic and kind of a victim of fate. The Sword at Sunset by Rosemary Sutcliffe is a great historical fiction, war novel take on Arthur. Great atmosphere and action and pathos. Also Fire Lord by Parke Godwin is amazingly gripping and evocative of early Prydain and the Shee people of the Hollow Hills.

[@Graaskaegg]

Really liked those books, so +1 on that recommendation.

[@craigster-q2y]

One of the most direct links comes with the Akallabeth..the Numenoreans who invade Valinor are struck into sleep and entombed in a cave until the final days..very similar to Arthur post Avalon with his sleeping knights waiting until called forth again.

[@tonystark8757]

When it comes to Arthurian iterations, I may recommend the TV show "Merlin" from the mid 2000's. It takes a few liberties, but it really engrosses you into the dynamic between Arthur, Merlin, the effects of Magic, and more. Its a little more episodic in the beginning, and the rare cgi starts a little rough, but it builds up very well and had me immersed in the story in ways most modern shows don't. And most of all, it felt like there was a level of sincerity to it that missing in most shows these days, like the actors were sincere, the story too, everything.

[@MatthiasPendragon]

I very much enjoyed Merlin. There are some weak episodes (I always think of the one where Merlin's mentor champions the Merits of Science!) But I really admire how it remained surprisingly faithful to the source material, sometimes to a tragic level.

[@ftumschk]

The earliest mention of Arthur might pre-date the _Historia Brittonum_ by centuries. An Arthur, evidently seen as a heroic figure of some repute, is named in passing (literally one line) in the epic poem _Y Gododdin,_ attributed to 6th century bard Aneirin. The earliest written copy dates to the 13th Century, but is evidently based on earlier sources, which may have circulated in various forms since Aneirin's day. Whether the "Arthur" reference was in there from the get-go is something we'll never know, but it's a possibility.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Oh that's interesting, I didn't hear that in my research! Thanks for sharing!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

Neat!

[@michaelsommers2356]

Nennius is certainly not the earliest reference to Arthur. The reference in _Y Gododdin_ is interesting, since it show that, by the time that poem was written, Arthur was very well known. After describing the amazing deeds of the hero of the poem, it adds words to the effect that, "... though he was no Arthur." Another interesting tidbit is that, in the late sixth century, royal families started naming their sons "Arthur", which was a name unattested until then.

[@revylokesh1783]

​@@Jess_of_the_Shirethe channel "The Welsh Viking" , which I highly recommend, has a video about the origina of Arthurian myth.

[@ottolindfors]

In most certainly wasn’t in it before the account of geoffrey of monmouth.

[@svr5423]

My favourite take on King Arthur is the one from Monty Python. Thanks for sharing your insights, Jess.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Agreed!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

If he was dying he wouldn't have bothered to carve AAAAHHHH!!!!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire What do you mean, African or European swallow?

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@sebastianevangelista4921 I don't know that!

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

@@sebastianevangelista4921 What are you going to do? Bleed on me?

[@celtofcanaanesurix2245]

what's crazy is I once knew a friend that had only ever heard of Excalibur in something named after the legendary sword, and didn't know who or what King Arthur was, which I found strange considering he's from a traditionally western family with pretty immediate roots in Ireland, so I had to show him Excalibur (the king Arthur movie) and he thought it was pretty cool, so I'm glad to have spread the myth to one more person. BTW Excalibur is a great King Arthur movie, it merges a lot of the myths and stories into a cohesive narrative that spans Arthur's whole life, though it isn't historically accurate to the time Arthur would have lived in, but it is so genuinely good as a movie that I don't really care which is a high compliment coming from me.

[@MattMcIrvin]

Whenever anyone tries to do an Arthur story that's historically accurate to that time, it's unrecognizable as Arthurian--even the medieval legends were wildly historically inaccurate. So you have to choose whether you're telling a story of some people who lived in late Roman Britain who supposedly turned out to be the historical basis for Arthur and his friends and enemies, or telling the Arthur stories we know and love.

[@jmchez]

Some already mentioned John Boorman's "Excalibur" movie as the most traditional and spectacular retelling of La Norte D'Arthur. There is, however another movie that I like. It's, "King Arthur" with Clive Owen. It attempts to tell the story as a completely historical action adventure movie. King Arthur is a Roman Centurion that remains in Britain after the legions were recalled in the fateful year of 410. Then he had to unite with the Celts in fighting the invasion of the Saxons ( tell me how that ended). It's a failed movie but it's heart is in the right place, as opposed to Guy Ritchie's monstrosity in trying to retell the story .

[@josephfisher426]

And could you go wrong with Ray Winstone as Bors? By having Antoine Fuqua direct the movie, perhaps... but yes, it was better than what followed, other than Merlin...

[@loekegaard9]

You've done something I've never before seen on KZbin (or the Internet at large, for that matter), something I never imagined I would see: you've taken KZbin video-making and made it an art form and a legit, hefty pathway to illumination.

[@Heather.Nippleopolis]

Ooo somebody got a crush

[@deanteasdale8261]

John Boorman's Excalibur. It has some controversial bits, but the overall effect is astonishing. The bit where Arthur hands Excalibur to the rebel knight is so powerful it always makes me cry, and the film has the best Merlin ever anywhere. Also this is pre CGI, and the physical effects and armour etc are stunning 🙂

[@grokeffer6226]

Good job!! I named my dog (R.I.P.), Arfer, after King Arthur. He was a good boy. 😔🐕❤

[@sephirothii13]

speaking of "the Lady of Shallot" I would suggest you look up the singer Loreena McKennitt and her singing the poem... It is haunting and beautiful.

[@joemountains1539]

This recommendation x 1,000

[@stellagetreuer5164]

Oh yes, I now can’t get it out of my head 😂

[@TehRedBlur]

This video took me back to my community theater days. I portrayed King Pellinore in a local production of the musical "Camelot." It was a lot of fun.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

It seems like such a fun show to do!

[@CynthiaWarren]

I loved that painting over your left shoulder. A rat in Victorian-era evening clothes reminds me of "The Great Mouse Detective," where the villain was Ratigan, a rat wearing Victorian evening clothes, complete with an opera-cape. His being voiced by Vincent Price was just perfect! I think he had so much fun doing it. Tolkien also apparently also involved Atlantis in the Middle-earth mythos. Numenor was also known (after its fall) as Atalante.

[@BrodieVickers-tk9sd]

Have you ever watched the movie 'Excalibur' Jess? I thought it did a decent job of cramming the entire Arthurian legend into 2 hours, and it looks cool as hell. Highly recommend you check that out! Haven't seen the full video, so I don't know if you've mentioned this yet, but the American author John Steinbeck also did his own retelling of the legend (Who I'm all too familiar with from GCSE English, especially after analysing 'Mice & Men' to death😆). It took 20 years for it to be published! and was left unfinished at his passing, but it ends with the death of Arthur's purest knight, Lancelot of the Lake. There's also a very good radio drama about that, which I'll definitely be reuploading at some point, it's called 'Steinbeck in Avalon'. As usual, a very interesting video. Would like to see you do one about my own local legend, the hooded man ... Robin Hood.

[@missanne2908]

Wonderful memories regarding _Excalibur,_ especially since I went to see it with my SCA friends, and we had all read at least some Arthurian legend. Great cast with Liam Neeson, Patrick Stewart, Ciarán Hinds, Gabriel Byrne, and especially Helen Mirren as Morgana le Fay.

[@josephfisher426]

@@missanne2908 I saw it in 11th grade English class, and not the TV version either... don't forget Robert Addie, he was such a great dirtbag...

[@christophermauchline2586]

I also completely put in a big yes to Excalibur. Love the movie!!!

[@stijnvantongerloo9122]

Oh neat, we're also recommending movies! Yes, that one's a must-watch. Gritty though.

[@scottlofty]

There is a dude that does a Myths and Legends podcast. He tries to tell myths and stories using as much of the original source material as he can get. He covers Arthur and his knights and he does it well.

[@johnwalters1341]

Your latest video hit me at a most opportune time. I've mentioned previously that I read my wife to sleep every night and have been doing so for around 38 years now, in the course of which we read LOTR about once a year. It so happens that at the time of your video we are in the middle of Mary Stewart's "The Crystal Cave," a retelling of the Arthur legend from Merlin's viewpoint. It is part of Stewart's "The Merlin Trilogy," one of the best contemporary versions of this story around. (We've also read this story several times.)

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I'm glad my timing worked out! I'll have to check out The Crystal Cave. Happy reading!

[@michelhv]

As it is said in Y Gododdin, "Tolkien fed black ravens on the rampart of a fortress, though he was no Arthur."

[@theGhostofRoberttheBruce]

😂 "The 300 Swords of the Cynfarachion, and the 300 Shields of the Cynwydion, and the 300 Spears of The Coeling, on whatever expedition they would go together, they would never fail."

[@iSamwise]

An excellent video on the topic! Thank you. As far as Arthur recommendations if you want a Mallory style version of the story TH White’s The Once and Future King is a masterpiece but also Stephen R Lawhead’s Pendragon Cycle really leans into the historical and spiritual aspects of the story chronicling from the time of Atlantis before Merlin up to the end of Arthur’s reign. All told not just through his eyes but also the eyes of those who made him the king he is and his closest friends and enemies.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I'll have to check out both of these! I hadn't heard of the Pendragon cycle but I love the integration of Atlantis

[@DrPeppering]

Came to the comments to recommend the Pendragon Cycle. I loved how it weaves in historical aspects and pulls in other British mythical figures. It was years later that I discovered I knew several stories from the Mabinogion because Lawhead had included them.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

11:34 "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" is a humorous novel with a very dark ending. Most adaptations don't include the slaughter of tens of thousands of knights using electric fences and Gatling guns.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

Dominic Noble has a fun video on A Yankee in King Arthur's Court titled 'The American Book That Offended The British'.

[@LeoAngora]

Thanks for the video! Seeing this I humbly suggest two video topic requests for you to consider: 1. A full video on LOTR and catholicism (to be honest, I only see casual connections between the two), and 2. A video on a work of literature that Tolkien enjoyed and praised, because the impression that I am getting is that Tolkien criticized everything else in the world of fantasy.

[@deckarde4919]

The miniseries Merlin from the mid-90's, with Sam Neil as Merlin, is amazing. Really recommend it.

[@edwardlecore141]

The issue for Tolkien was that Arthurian legend was originally Celtic anti-AngloSaxon mythology of what is now Wales, then was coopted by the Normans as further anti-AngloSaxon propaganda to justify their invasion and subjugation of England. (Even though they were also oppressing the Welsh) This hypocrisy and tyranny is why he disliked the majority of later medieval work, but not the early Celtic Arthur, who is virtually unrecognisable to people today. (And a version I prefer, along with the character of the Mabinogi, who Tolkien liked, and was jealous the Welsh had such stories, which is why his Silmarillion is so similar) This Norman use of Arthur is what he hated more than the Victorian romances, as he regarded their invasion as one of the biggest disasters in history due to the loss of AngloSaxon oral culture, (and it was a genocide at the very least)

[@knightofnii4659]

I've always been a big fan of the Pre-Raphaelite brotherhood. Their are a lot of their works in my local Art Gallery ( Manchester, England ) so they have had big influence on me artistically. I do my own painting now and I still love their choice of colours.

[@VTimmoni]

I adore the Preraphialites

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Their art really is astonishing. It's so full of life!

[@aletheuo475]

I love their sense of balance and the kinds of patterns they used.

[@SeiyaVenture]

Not only in english speakers is a popular history, in Mexico had a popularity mostly for the adaptation in modern age, but you can recognize the reference of a weapon stuck in a rock. Great job with the video.

[@danielriley7380]

Jess still has my favourite sign-off on KZbin.

[@allisongliot]

I LOVE your analysis of Tolkien’s view on integrating Christianity into stories!

[@kameronshanafelt6808]

Excalibur is not the Sword in the Stone; that sword broke and was replaced by the Lady of the Lake with Excalibur. And the picture you showed illustrating it is Galahad, who pulled another sword from a stone that was actually floating in the water. And since people are giving their recommendations for Arthurian retellings, I might mention Blanche Winder's Stories of King Arthur, which was the first one I read in 4th Grade and which set me on the trail, an enchanting adaptation for growing readers.

[@thesmiffers]

Well done, Jess, well done. Have you looked into Lewis' "That Hideous Strength?" He integrates much of the Arthurian myth, especially the role of Merlin.

[@matthewhipkiss9644]

I'm only halfway thought, and I got to say this is one of the best videos so far. Learned so much whilst relaxing to your calming atmosphere 😌. Keep up the amazing work

[@2centswanted113]

Thumbnail threw me. I was like "Of course Tolkien, the Super Catholic hated Monty Python" 😂

[@scottthomas3792]

The first thing that came to mind for me was the " Spam A Lot" song...

[@rookbirdblues]

Strange how connections can be made, but the talk about medieval romanticism really reminded me of my own passion, falconry. Falconry was so much a part of the medieval era that it's hard to unravel the two. The book that got me into falconry, H is for Hawk by Helen Macdonald, is also partially about TH White and his book, The Goshawk, but it also talks about his adaptation of King Arthur, The Once and Future King, which informed much of the 20th century view of the canon. A merlin is literally a kind of falcon, and I think the character Merlin was named after the bird. Merlins have been used in British falconry as hunting birds for years, and were even considered the 'lady's bird' in medieval falconry (though women were very involved in falconry and regularly flew larger birds!). ETA: Apparently Merlin (the name) came from a completely different root to the merlin bird's name, wow! A cool coincidence. Off topic, but I would love to see you cover the Earthsea Cycle by Ursula K le Guin! I think your style would really suit them.

[@torinju]

I consider the Scifi Channel adaption of the Earthsea stories to be the single worse example of how to adapt a written work ever made, so there is that aspect to talk about too. But yes, I loved the Earthsea Cycle and would love to see Jess discuss it, especially in relation to Tolkien.

[@luthersmen]

This was great! I love how you not only told the story but the story of story telling. Modern people tend to think of history like math, but historically it was art. We done.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I think that especially with older stories, the storytelling is just as important as the story itself. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!

[@lunatickoala]

Historically, history wasn't just art but parable and - as much as Tolkien might dislike it - allegory (I think Tolkien used an overly strict definition of the term so as to be able to include and exclude what he wanted). History wasn't fanciful just for the sake of it, it was meant to convey a lesson relevant to the people being told the story. In the days when most people had little to no formal education, the stories were an important part of that education. Even today, stories have far more staying power than the dry facts of history, and when there's a good but historically inaccurate story, it's very hard to set the record straight, except with an even better story. The story of Romulus killing Remus was meant to convey that even someone who accomplishes great deeds will still have flaws, even be someone capable of committing grave crimes (and they considered fratricide a very grave crime). Very much in line with whispering "memento mori" to a general during his triumph.

[@torinju]

@@lunatickoala I would argue that is true even today. For instance myths surrounding George Washington and stories told about the American Revolution, which are more about a narrative than a strict telling of history.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@torinju I took Comparative Religion and Cultural Anthropology A and B back in high school, and a big thing that my teacher in those electives taught us is that if you want to understand a culture then you need to look at their stories, not just their history and politics. Like you mentioned, the way we talk about Washington says a lot compared to the events that actually transpired.

[@torinju]

@@sebastianevangelista4921 True, historically Jefferson and Washington were kind of awful people. Slave owners and they were not kind to their slaves.

[@paulbrickler]

The origin of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is actually well known, by a select few people. Professor Tolkien was gifted a DeLorean and traveled back in time to write it.

[@SirJoeCool]

John William Waterhouse is my favorite painter! Always stoked when he gets a mention.

[@estherhoward7959]

Same here! I have a print of his 1888 'The Lady of Shalott' hanging on my lounge room wall. I've also seen the real painting in the Tate (along with other paintings of his) ❤

[@moniquetroth]

@@estherhoward7959 The first time I got to see TLOS in person (I knew it was in the Tate, but I didn't realize I'd wondered into *that* room until I turned 'round and there. it. was), I just had to stand there at stare at it for ages. I'd seen prints, but they'd never truly captured the loveliness and sadness of the actual painting.

[@bradlakes4018]

I first read the hobbit in 5th grade and then Lord of the rings in 6th and have always loved it. Im so glad i was able to find your channel and I hope youre able to do this for a long time. Keep doing you, Jess!

[@scientoakuilusakuilar]

The Merlin BBC show - just pure Arthurian joy.

[@seancase2746]

Note that Arthur isn’t actually a king in the _Historia Brittonum._ He’s a military leader.

[@melodyfaith8808]

This whole video took me back to my undergrad LOTR class in the best way. I also love hearing Middle English spoken out loud!

[@sourisvoleur4854]

The reality of SOMEONE famous called Arthur is attested to by all of a sudden people across Europe naming their sons Arthur, as attested by gravestones and other ways. Before a certain point, no Arthurs. After a certain point, lots of Arthurs. It's been a long time since I read Geoffrey Ashe, so I don't remember what the time period was.

[@ravenmad9225]

Agreed.Though we may never know who Arthur really was,I suspect much of the legend is based on actual people and events.

[@ruthspanos2532]

Susan Cooper’s Dark is Rising YA books were about modern day children/teens interacting with the legends of King Arthur and Celtic and Norse mythology. It was a great book to imagine yourself getting to participate in epic battles between good and evil.

[@paulvincenti2]

Well done, as always. I am always impressed by your integrity and work ethic that makes watching your videos a cut above. Been watching since you were about 6 months in to the channel. So happy for your success thus far, and I am certain your channel will continue to attract new subscribers! I would love to see you as a guest on TORn Tuesdays. I have been a fan of theirs for many, many years. I think they would love you! Keep up the fine work!

[@KevinKitten]

I enjoyed the way Stephen Lawhead told the Arthurian stories in his Pendragon books. He mixed together different myths in a coherent way and managed to reflect the Welsh-ness of the early legends.

[@VTimmoni]

Those are great books.

[@estherhoward7959]

I'm working my way through those books atm, the first 3 books are great but I'm really bogged down in book 4, it's all battles, battles, battles...boring. I'm hoping it gets better.

[@mk_gamíng0609]

Its wrong to say Welshness since that really was not a thing , its better to say Brythonicness since the legends have origins all around the Island

[@RoseCityBBQ]

​@@estherhoward7959tbh just stick with the first three unless you are super into it. The last three are Lawheads take on some of the classic King Arthur tales but read as almost a completely different series.

[@estherhoward7959]

@@RoseCityBBQ cool, thanks for the heads-up 👍

[@verity231]

Oh Jess, how I love your videos! They put me in such a good, relaxed (dare I say, hobbity?) mood. Your presentation style is lovely and engaging. Like listening to a knowledgable friend who each time has something new and not quite expected to say, while sitting comfortably in a chair by the fireplace. I'm a bit late to this particular one, but I must say I really appreciate your explanation of Tolkien's views on the religion-myth-storytelling situation. It shows why and how he was so ridiculously good at writing fantasy. It seems he really understood it very, very deeply.

[@davidstoyanoff]

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story," said Mark Twain. And he time-traveled to King Arthur's court, so he would know....

[@MattMcIrvin]

The most recent Arthurian adaptation I encountered was a roller coaster: Excalibur at Funtown Splashtown USA in Saco, Maine. It's a large wooden roller coaster (built in 1998), and there's nothing specifically Arthurian about the ride experience, but the station is themed like a storybook castle, the seats are labeled with the names of the Knights of the Round Table and you get there by taking the "Camelot Bridge" through a lovely wooded area. So, yes, the influence of the mythos continues. (Even if it is, perhaps, "blind appropriation of mythic symbols".) It's a good roller coaster. One big advantage of using Arthurian legend today is that it's public domain. You couldn't use the versions from some specific modern adaptation, like White's or Disney's or Boorman's, without paying somebody, but the general trappings of Arthurian legend as told in medieval sources are already familiar enough that audiences will recognize them if you base a story or something else on them. The only thing is, you have to pick and choose. Even the stories about the swords are confusing (is Excalibur the sword in the stone or the sword from the lake? Or both? The stories are all over the place). The Holy Grail even shows up in the utterly bizarre satirical science-fiction series "Mrs. Davis", which runs with the theological weirdness of it and amplifies it.

[@hewhoadds]

22:10 from wiki for those who don’t wanna look it up “A eucatastrophe is a sudden turn of events in a story which ensures that the protagonist does not meet some terrible, impending, and plausible and probable doom

[@michaeldrabble2558]

Great Video and really interesting, as a Subscriberfrom the UK Shires! Yorkshire but still pretty much Middle Earth! But yes, the legend of Arthur is Fascinating!

[@scotty5447]

I'll say it again. Jess has an amazing vocal lyricism and it's at it's best when she's quoting poetry or songs. My favorite is the Elven songs!

[@sulljoh1]

I love when KZbinrs subvert our expectations by sponsoring themselves or other wholesome stuff ❤️

[@michaelbruckner6364]

Another wonderful episode. You do have a gift of story telling. Thank you.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Fun fact Gawain and the green knight is not the most recent Arthurian tale rediscovered, a paleograph worked ten years and published last year his work on Segurant the Dragon Knight a lost tale about a knight of the king Arthur, forced by Morrgane the Fey to chase a dragon. She even convinced Arthur that Segurant was only an illusion. It's a very atypical tale without the Grail, and with a lot more humour than previous Arthurian legends, which is probably why it was forgotten despite being pretty popular (the guy who worked on it found 28 manuscripts, most of them incomplete).

[@williampalmer8052]

"...oppresive idealogies destroy Faerie through their blind appropriation of mythic symbols..." Well, thank goodness that could never happen to Tolkien's mythos... Anyway, I'm glad you've added another tier to your Patreon, and I'm very happy to continue supporting you on your wonderful KZbin journey and beyond.

[@edwardperkins1225]

You mean Amazon's Rings of Power?

[@MacScarfield]

I would love a similar video on the influence of Charlemagne and the «Matter of France»/«Carolingian Cycle» on Tolkien’s work: The Final Stand of Boromir with that of the Paladin Roland at the Battle of Roncevaux Pass and Aragorn as a parallel to Charlemagne as the King-Emperor of a reforged Empire (The Reunited Kingdom of Gondor & Arnor for Aragorn and the (Western) «Roman Empire» as the Frankish Empire (and later as the Holy Roman Empire of Medieval Germany) for Charlemagne and his Successors)! Love your work, Jess!

[@VTimmoni]

If you haven't yet, read The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley. It's a relatively modern retelling that is really approachable.

[@Zelkathis]

I will second this recommendation. It is the best retelling I've ever read or watched. Both the book and the show are magnificent.

[@NevisYsbryd]

Rather, it is a very modern retelling.

[@davebirins6899]

Third recommendation here. Mists offers a retelling of the Arthurian Tradition from the perspective of its women characters; specifically Morgan le Fay.

[@stijnvantongerloo9122]

I agree, its a very interesting take on the Arthurian mythos.

[@thimbur3543]

You could try "The Warlord Chronicles" by Bernard Cornwell for a different take on Arthur. It's a trilogy - "The Winter King", "Enemy of God" and "Excalibur". There's also a TV series, "The Winter King", but it's only a loose adaptation and the I'd read the books first.

[@SirBolsón]

Ironically enough, King Arthur's origins are actually from Wales and was culturally appropriated by us Englishman; before the coming of the Anglosaxons, Britannia was predominantly Brythonic (i.e. British Celtic, which the population was and still continues on with the modern-day Welsh) and a notable Romano-British minority (the heavily Romanised Celtic elites of Roman Britannia) & it's likely "King Arthur" or as he would be called by his Romano-British name, "Arturias Rex", was a former Roman commander known as "Ambrosius Aurelianus" who fought AGAINST the Anglosaxons, i.e. the 'Old English'. Ambrosius' most notable achievement was his victory against an Anglosaxon force at the battle of "Mons Badonicus" near Bath, England, stopping the Anglosaxon expansion for an entire generation, which is fairly similar to Aragorn or perhaps Boromir who fought against the Orcish hordes. Ps. most Englishman such as myself are still technically Brythonic as Brythonic DNA accounts for 60-90% of our own; the Anglosaxons simply assimilated most of the Celts they conquered, with Wales and Cornwall preserving themselves and their languages. Edit: I've recently discovered the revelation that Gildas could've also been fabricating a narrative of his own to glorify Ambrosius and demonise a character (most likely another Romano-British commander) he disliked who happened to be called "Arthur."

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

This is such great info! Thanks for sharing!

[@SirBolsón]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire All good! All I ask is that this information is made more public to everyone here! 🫡

[@timelordvictorious]

How do you no that Ambrosis existed

[@SirBolsón]

@@timelordvictorious From an account of a Brythonic monk known as Gildas, who mentions his victory against the Anglosaxons during the late 500s CE, although it's a bit hazey as Gildas himself wasn't a historian and his writings are seen as the rants of an aged and bitter mediaeval equivalent to a doomer by most modern academics, which makes sense as his people were on the defensive against the Anglosaxons who were conquering, raiding & going on the general offensive. Another source is "The Legend of the Britons," from the "Historia Brittonum," (which was mentioned in this video) from the 800s CE.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

I would say that my favorite modern Arthurian tale is the comic book series 'Once & Future' by Kieron Gillen and Dan Mora because it places great emphasis on the various ways in which the mythos evolved over time. Early on in the story Arthur is resurrected by a group of English nationalists (i.e. racist ****heads), only for him to immediately kill them all because he magically detected that they were of Saxon descent.

[@MagusMarquillin]

Re: Arthurian literature though I've collected much and have designs on Mort D'Arthur soon, I've not read any yet, but I hear the most glowing praise for Bernard Cornwell, Mary Stewart and Marrion Zimmer Bradley's work. I've long been a fan of Arthur though - beyond Monty Python: in the images flashed at 14:08: 1990's _"Conquest of Camelot - Search for the Holy Grail"_ is my favorite quest-narrative-rich adventure game by Sierra (my favorite software developer). It holds up great if you're willing to use old school typing interfaces, pass (some sloppy) sporadic arcade sequences and copywrite tests with the manual. I love how Spirit form Merlin serves as narrator, constantly in the Player's/Arthur's head advising on what he encounters which you can ask him about with the keyboard. It has an interesting takes towards how Christianity integrates/superceeds the older religions & spiritual forces, though now I wonder how Tolkien would view it (just imagine trying to teach him computer games). Christy Marx also made a wonderful Robin Hood game afterwards. I also love the 1981 film Excalibur (hitched to Wagner and Carmina Burana) and 1998 Miniseries Merlin (lower budget, but wholesome), and 2021's the Green Knight is a haunting deconstruction of the poem in it's own mytholgical dream.

[@gerryccarroll281]

Another delightful video. Thanks to you I've reread the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.

[@Gilgad01]

Thanks!

[@firething11]

I'm currently close to finishing the Warlord Trilogy by Bernard Cornwell, which is a historical fiction retelling of the Arthurian legend set around the year 500 AD in post-Roman Britain. I highly recommend them!

[@michaelsommers2356]

Tolkien was quite right: Arthur was not English. The real Arthur, and their probably was one, fought against the people who became the English. He also would have been Christian, as opposed to the pagan English.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

Early on in the comic Once & Future by Kieron Gillen and Dan Mora, Arthur is resurrected by a group of English nationalists (i.e. racist ****heads) only for him to immediately kill them all once he magically detected that they were of Saxon descent.

[@ststclair]

Thank you for more things I will have to look into! Well done as usual.

[@JT96708]

Why would Tolkien expect the Arthurian myths to be English? Arthur was a Celtic-British warrior fighting against invading Angles and Saxons.

[@WilliamCelandine]

And it was popularised by Anglo-Norman nobility

[@mercianthane2503]

That's just Tolkien acting as Tolkien. He was bitter that the english had no mythology of their own, and that the Arthurian tales belong to a people that used to live in the lands the Britons once inhabited. He was just jealous that the Britons won in mythology.

[@NewAge374]

Or Tolkien thought Hobbits were more quintessentially at home in the British Isles than pompous men fighting far off wars

[@spacemanspiff3052]

Hi! I find your videos thoroughly enjoyable. Your knowledge of Tolkien’s works and other fantasy folklore is most impressive. Your presentation style is professional, but also welcoming, kind, and wryly witty. Additionally, your costume and hair/makeup choices are fun and enchanting. Your channel is new to me, but I very much look forward to viewing your pas posts and following your future work. I really am happy to discover your solidly capable, entertaining, and instructive work!!! Thank you!!! 😉👍

[@schipfan360]

Great episode, very insightful, I feel like I just sat through a semester of college literature

[@campbellmarbling]

You should read Rosemary Sutcliff’s King Arthur Trilogy (The Sword and the Circle, The Light Beyond the Forest, and The Road to Camlann)! I kept wondering during your video what Tolkien would have made of this modern British retelling (published in the late 70s/early 80s, I think.). Or her Sword at Sunset, which is a looser interpretation of Arthurian legends, told from a more realistic perspective - if King Arthur had a real historical origin, maybe this is how it could have been.

[@jojijoji88]

I love the songs from the musical, Camelot! I often include “If Ever I Would Leave You” (sung by Sir Lancelot) in my shows, but I also love “How To Handle a Woman” (sung by King Arthur)

[@bsa45acp]

Of the modern retelling of Arthur, let us not forget 'The Mists of Avalon' by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Definitely an interesting retelling of the tale from a woman's perspective. Excellent as usual Jess. Over 40 years ago I took a lower division course titled 'The search for Arthur' and enjoyed it immensely. You made me realize I should have waited all these years because your video said in 40+ minutes what the entire course fell short of doing.

[@kamatsu8]

Welsh legends like Culhwch and Olwen have had some influence on the stories in the silmarillion, and they include King Arthur.

[@LeiaElkins]

My favorite bit of media involving King Arthur is The Kid Who Would Be King. It's such a good movie, and a funny LOTR connection it stars Andy Serkis' son Louis

[@nadermansour7487]

I really enjoyed this video. Excellent work

[@pioteer1434]

I really recommend The Once and Future King by T.H. White. Beautifully written and thought-provoking story. It's one of the best books I have ever read

[@hughfisher9820]

Agree, probably the best version of the Arthurian legends, without any "twists" and from about the same time as LOTR.

[@ruthspanos2532]

Absolutely! And the musical Camelot was based on it. The funny thing for me is that I always tend to conflate T.H. White and T.S. Eliot. Who were not the same person.

[@charliestevenson3500]

Thanks for your themed costumes. I imagine that you put in a lot of work to create them.

[@robhogg68]

"I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own (bound up with its tongue and soil), not of the quality that I sought, and found (as an ingredient) in legends of other lands. There was... nothing English, save impoverished chap-book stuff. Of course there was and is all the Arthurian world, but powerful as it is, it is imperfectly naturalized, associated with the soil of Britain but not with English; There is a problem here is that Tolkien fails (or refuses) to recognize: It is English which is "imperfectly naturalized". It was the language of the invaders. It was the English (named as Saxons) who Arthur fought at Badon Hill (and elswhere) in the accounts of Nennius and Geoffrey of Monmouth. Of course, these accounts are more mythology than history, but there is a truth within them. The English pushed the Britons to the margins of the land (Wales, Cornwall). The idea of English being bound up with the "soil" of Britain is perhaps one of Tokien's greatest fantasies.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

Overly Sarcastic Productions have a really fun video titled 'History Summarized: Why Is English Such A Mess?' that I think you would enjoy.

[@anoble1]

Wow, what a great video. Thank you for the amazing work!

[@sarahluchies1076]

I feel like C. S. Lewis has a good view on the relation between magic and Christianity. Its a good tool to teach children how unexplainable things like miracles happen, and how God's power works, but its not something that can grow with you as you grow up. That's why Lewis put Santa in Narnia, it fit this view of magic. He and Tolkien also famously disagreed on points like this.

[@nonbisco]

You have a crazy cool hairstyle in every video and I think that's pretty neat, just wanted to say that.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

That's so kind of you to notice!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire Didn't you say that you inherited the grey streak from your mom in a previous video? It really does look great on you!

[@joanelizabethhall9455]

I'm always happy to see a new video from you! Today your content has inspired me to dig out a piece of harp music I had set aside as too hard: "Christmas at Arthur's Court" by Carol Wood. (My harp teacher insists it's not too hard; I'm just lazy, LOL)

[@pendragon2012]

I must be weird because King Arthur is absolutely one of the first things I think of when I think of LOTR, especially given the many once and future king myths--Durin, the Numenoreans, Earendil....

[@peterknutsen3070]

Tolkien was massively into kings and monarchy. Aragorn is the obvious example, but you see the same massive drooling in The Hobbit.

[@pendragon2012]

@@peterknutsen3070 Kings do make better stories.

[@guyincognito461]

I would recommend looking into 'The once and future king' by T.H White if you're looking to explore this topic further in the future.

[@kennerationX]

Terrific book. It modernizes the mode of storytelling but still faithfully represents the part of the Arthurian tradition it draws from.

[@lloroshastar6347]

Arthurian legend may not be tied with the language of the English, but DNA evidence shows that the native Britons who existed prior to the invasions and migrations of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians and later Danes, Norman's etc. were not wiped out or expelled from the land but co-existed, co-habited and co-bred with them. What makes up the English today is just as much the DNA of the Britons as it is of all those other Western European people's.

[@fatherhanktree2011]

Fantastic video,Jess,have to say I thought your Middle English North West Midlands dialect (not too far from where I'm from originally,though that doesn't make me an expert😂) was very good! In Tolkien,actually LotR,there is one scene that gave me very strong Arthurian vibes: when Gandalf,after the fall of Sauron,takes Aragorn out for a walk up on Mount Mindolluin. There ,he points out to Aragorn a sapling,and tells him that it is a descendant of the White Tree that grew in Minas Tirith,itself ultimately descended from the Trees of Valinor .This ,for me,is one of the most archetypal moments in all of Tolkien, Gandalf and Aragorn could be Merlin and Arthur...it's a beautiful,powerful scene,thankfully ovelooked/ignored by Peter Jackson...and it's one of those little things that keep me coming back to JRRT. Happy Hobbit Day!

[@nicholusshadursky9512]

I always enjoyed the TV miniseries starring Sam Niel. This was my introduction to the medieval/faerie realm. Then I read the hobbit as a class in 98. Then watched the animated movie to compare it as a class. These works hold a dear place in my life. That helped me appreciate story telling and literature.

[@peterknutsen3070]

What miniseries is that? Year?

[@nicholusshadursky9512]

@@peterknutsen3070 Merlin TV Mini Series 1998 Not Rated 1h 1m It had a lot of big names. Sam Neil, Helena Bonham Carter, Martin Short, Isabella Rossellini, James Earl Jones, Lena Headey, Miranda Richardson.

[@peterknutsen3070]

@@nicholusshadursky9512 Oh, that one! That's about Merlin. I kinda assumed you were talking about a miniseries about Arthur that I didn't know about.

[@nicholusshadursky9512]

@@peterknutsen3070 sorry for the confusion

[@dlf1203]

It's noon California time on Hobbit day which is also the day of the memorial service for my closest friend, a day for reflection. As for Arthurian retellings, try Mary Stewart's Merlin books (Hollow Hills, Crystal Caves etc.) and Rosemary Sutcliff's The Sword at Sunset.

[@gjg5789]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Tolkien was a massive fan of the 1963 Disney film "The Sword in the Stone." Anyone interested in the King Arthur and Merlin should start there in my possibly educated opinion.

[@Brieeeeeel]

your videos are really deep, well written and sensible, watching from brazil =D

[@fuferito]

That lovely thiara (or is it a coronet) is giving her an especially High Elven vibe.

[@MistbornPrincess]

Jess, your ensemble gives me film Arwen vibes! ❤

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

Mists of Avalon was probably the best modern fictional retelling of the Arthurian cycle, but I imagine Marion Zimmer Bradley is pretty much persona non grata now for obvious reasons. That would leave "The Once and Future King". Or possibly the miniseries featuring Sam Neill as Merlin and Miranda Richardson as Queen Mab.

[@davidsachs4883]

Terry Pratchett’s short story “once and future.” Is a different but enjoyable different take on selection of the king. I enjoyed reading it more then listening to the audio, but you can listen to the audio while driving

[@jordanmiller8848]

Love the stickers and the Chanel. Thank you.

[@prnzlsr]

The 2004 King Arthur film, however awful it may be, always captivated me with the idea that King Arthur might have been a real historical figure. Now, being a bit older, I understand the captivating thing about King Arthur is not whether or not he really existed, but that we, today, have a direct connection to people from the early middle ages through this story that survived just by chance.