Knife and Axe marketing flaws - My perspective

www.hoffmanblac...
@Hoffmanblacksmithing

[@shepardsforgeh2031]

i can not thank you enough for makeing this the focus of your vid! edge geometry tells you,what the blade is made to cut and the maker has to be clear about this! thank you thank you! well done sir!

[@stellarpod]

Excellent presentation of a confusing subject. Having worked in the oil/gas valve manufacturing business my entire adult life (I'm 61), I've had similar conversations, trying to educate my Sales crew and ultimately our customers about the different physical and chemical aspects of the many metals we use, and why one might be superior (or inferior) to others. As you stated, the characteristics of the chosen metal must be the best suited to perform in the anticipated environment and function. In our case, we had to deal with working pressures as high as 20,000 psi and severe corrosion and erosion applications. It is refreshing to see such a young guy take ALL aspects of his craft so seriously. That is one of the principle reasons I decided to place an order for one of your axes. Your leadtime is lengthy, but I trust that the wait will be worth it. Thanks again, Steve

[@jacksonwillis8683]

Liam, you have the intelligence and experience of a man twice your age. The insight, intelligence and excellence you bring to the world of bladesmithing is almost unparalleled, and you do it in a way which is approachable and interesting. Keep doing it, and keep making beautiful examples of craftsmanship.

[@E.lectricityNorth]

I have checked out quite a few blacksmithing channels, and of those, yours is by far the most educational Liam. Much appreciated. I think you are very smart to educate your clients. An informed client is a good client--because then they can recognize the precision and beauty of your work! That carving axe is a beaut.

[@kenstevens5963]

Wow...You’re explanation was the best. You are wise beyond your years!!

[@travisrudge2148]

This was fantastic. I hope a lot of people see this.

[@Lee-qp6gf]

Excellent video. I don't need to know the geometry but now know the use is important.

[@FargoFX]

Great example of a video that adds real value to the bladesmithing/blacksmithing community. Knowledge is power. Keep up the great work.

[@dmytriboyko6197]

As a student of mechanical engineering and a hobbyist knife maker - this is totally true and something that "ordinary" people and knifemakers ignore and just refuse to understand or even listen to. Liked & subscribed! good video! keep it up!

[@broadusthompson1666]

Great video! I thought your chips were a little puny at the start, once you said it was black locust, I was impressed! You never see anyone showing off their chopping skills on REALLY HARD woods! My woods are full of black locust, that stuff is really tough stuff! I love it for making handles, better than hickory in my opinion, if you can get a straight enough piece. With the theme of this video, and black locust on the mind, would you design an axe differently if it were to be chopping mainly much harder types of wood?

[@nickjohnson5291]

Excellent points Liam. Falls along the lines of my favorite phrase I hear from fellow knife makers: "1084 and O1 are beginner steels! Get you some D2!"

[@terrychorn1503]

Ian, you are spot on as far as people using HRC as the defining factor in their purchase. Advertisers play on that spec to sell their product. A similar example is people buying a digital SLR camera based solely on the number of megapixels. This camera has 32 more megapixels than that one and therefore is better. Far from the truth unless you are going to enlarge the photo larger than life size. The human eye cannot distinguish the difference in quality beyond 7 megapixels. A 32 megapixel photo at 8X10 or 11X14 looks the same as the 7 megapixel photo. I have a lot of blades with varying HRC and they all perform their basic intended purpose very well. Thank you for sharing!

[@rickhall5399]

Great video Liam, not only for the customer but for makers as well. The purpose of the cutting implement determines the combination of Edge geometry, hardness, toughness, Size, finish, It all plays into what The intended use of the tool is. Thank you for bringing it out in the open. By the way you still hit like a girl lol . Keep up the good videos I love them.

[@wesley7910]

As a new knifemaker this is something i am still learning! Good video

[@lucasbeaudette7992]

I would love to see a video comparing your axes against some of the leading production axes such as the Council Velvicut or the gransfors bruks small forest axe. That would be really cool! Awesome video by the way!

[@morrow.m]

Great video! Thanks for laying it all out there!

[@GlennSteffy]

Thank-you! You made it clear; I have much to learn....

[@mcwolf1969]

Your work, knowledge and dedication to this craft, inspire! Though I'd die to get one of your axes, I'm happy to continue watching your videos. Thank you!

[@Noah-hz5ll]

As a longtime creator but up and coming knife maker (Nûach Blades), I REALLY appreciate this video and think it's going to be extremely helpful in future marketing. I'm fortunate enough to already be backlogged with orders and am about to put out IG and FB pages. I really appreciate and enjoy your videos, Liam!

[@tonywalker8030]

very insightful, the world is too involved in control comparison and this is what often really gets my goat.

[@ericarmel5584]

I really appreciate your information about axes and knives and the geometry of a blade I really would like to have one of those little actions that Maximillion and you are working on I watch maxes channel all the time and I am very interested in that tool for Greenwood carving

[@harrytgough9101]

There's a video somewhere where Kevin Harvey MS is doing some journeyman tests, explaining that the one inch rope test was all in the geometry. he said that someone had made a brass knife that could do it just to prove the point.

[@FireCreekForge]

Yep, and RC hardness can mean very different things depending on the type of steel you are talking about...

[@josephg.3370]

I found this video very educational. Thank you for sharing.

[@kaizoebara]

Couldn't agree more. Those stupid destruction tests have ruined some otherwise great knife designs due to the fact that manufacturers fear that some moron will destroy his knife and claim replacement or worse yet, bad-mouth them on the internet, thus compelling the manufacturer to make the knife way more stout than it needs to be. Also, great to see the collaboration with Maximilian.

[@dougpeterson7981]

Nice informative video, something a consumer probably does not think about when making a purchase - thanks for info.

[@beckerlara1792]

Great video very informative!

[@brianlee3131]

Let me start by saying thanks for the work you do! I really liked how you focused on marketing and the consumer for this one. As one such consumer I've noticed an incredible amount of variance in what specs are listed on maker's and seller's websites. I realize that there are number of variables that determine what makes a specific edged tool right for a specific function and that you can't convey all possible data about how a particular implement performs in a given function but I think a few standardized specifications can go a long way toward helping consumers make an informed decision. As such, I think the following would be useful to anyone purchasing edged tools online. Those are: Intended purpose, material(s) used and why, tool dimensions, weight, Rockwell hardness, grind type, and edge geometry. It seems like one or more of those are missing in some regard on every site. For example, I purchased your Camp Axe without knowing what the RC is, what the edge geometry is or why you choose 4142. I couldn't find that info on your page. I had to do further research but, if you are using the interwebz as your primary marketing tool and to your point, perhaps that info should be included on the product description. That's not an indictment, just constructive criticism. In all honesty, I'm grateful you do what you do. I can't wait to get my axe and I sincerely wish you all the best. Keep up the good work!

[@OlegShevtsov512]

People compare parameters they can compare (what manufacturers published for them). This is like choosing a photo camera from different vendors by comparing megapixels. Megapixels can be important, but they do not explain whether you get good photos or bad ones, will they be bluish, grayish, noisy ones or just fine? Will the camera shoot well in the low light? Will you like the photos? With the camera you can normally make some shoots and then find our if it's good enough for you. With axes, knives and other edge tools you also need to try something to find out how it works for you, in your conditions. Is handle convenient? What happens to the edge when you push harder? Is it good for cutting across the fibers? Is it good for cutting dry wood? Does it require a lot of effort? Will it be painful for my hands? User experience is not something people can communicate using HRC, DPH, weight or edge angles :-)

[@SkillCult]

Carving axe looks great. Max rocks. Glad you guys are collaborating on that.

[@YL_AmericadoSul]

dude, make a video explaining the different geometries/uses. that would be great too!

[@getbuck4195]

I need a carving axe like that to make some spoons. I can't wait for that to be released.

[@jonugalde1275]

Good to listen an axemaker talking about the business honestly. I completely agree about geometry. When talking about an axe the basic information anyone should give is weight, geometry (specially bit angle) and how long the axe handle is, this will tell you how it will perform the axe. Type of steel and heat treatment will tell you how long will mantain its performance. Lian, are you going to add geometry and specially bit angle information to your axes?

[@jonugalde1275]

By the way, I'll help you translating those three axe characteristics to the motor world. The weight of the axe would be the horse power, the length of the handle the torque and the geometry the transmission. You can have a high horse power racing car with a very big torque but if it has the transmission of a Land Rover Defender it will perform bad as a racing car.

[@michaelscott733]

2 minutes in, and already I'm very impressed with your video. Im very impressed with the way you carry and present yourself. Very knowledgeable and mature. I wasn't anywhere near that level when I was your age. Drinking and partying seemed like they needed my attention more at that age rather than focusing on my career or growing as a person. I wish you nothing but the best. Keep being a positive role model and keep the axe to the grindstone? Is that right? I'll keep watching and figure it out.

[@mab0852]

Great video Liam. All manufactured items, especially tools, are a blend of design elements and material properties ideally aligned for a specific set of use conditions. I personally don't want an axe much if any over 54 hardness for ease of maintenance as well as durability given the steels that are typically used and the way I grind them for my area. On the same note, I prefer my knives 58+ depending on the steel and use. One steel may be awesome at 62 and a aweful at 58. Another steel may be just the opposite. Depending on the toughness of the steel, I want a delicate kitchen slicer optimized for 62-63 to stay sharp longer. I usually want a field knife between 58 and 61 to minimize chipping and ease sharpening. If I intend to do a lot of that sharpening in the field, I want to be on the low end of that range, maybe even a little lower just so it's easier to take care of. As you pointed out, all of those preferences are highly dependent on the geometry of the edge which is in turn dependent on the intended use. I don't want a carving geometry on a batoning blade just like I don't want a fat strong field grind on my filet knife. Marketing is targeted at a largely uneducated consumer base. The more time a user spends with a tool in hand and understands the tradeoffs in different design elements, the less effective mainstream marketing becomes. We unfortunately live in a time where there is very little practical experience with the consumer and where modern tools are recognizable for their function, but the subtle practical design nuances that are so import to daily users have been compromised and lost to mass production/cost efficiency. That is why it is so important to have guys like you out there rediscovering and preserving those subtle differences that only dirty callused hands understand.

[@ridingmanone]

Form follows function.

[@damascusfreak1967]

good job information people should look at .

[@scarmenl]

I find it interesting that carving axes look so much like fighting hatchets or axes of old. Not knocking the design but just seeing how similar they are. Thank you for speaking up about Rockwell Hardness. It is one indicator but no where near the whole story for metal work and edged tool design.

[@johnkotlarchick4191]

you need to post this on bladesmithing for beginners on Facebook

[@TheGlatch]

how about doing a video were you go in to detail of the specific edge geometries. you got me intresested now

[@craiggodfrey639]

Great info m8!!! Luv your work!

[@REAPERMILITIAOUTDOORS]

Very educational

[@dominiqueleblanc2193]

Great vid. Totally agree with you. The perfect example is lumberjack competitions. Those axes cut through wood like butter.

[@Ostoja_Tac]

i love it. God bless you mr Hoffman

[@philipprigmore8723]

Thanks. I truly hate these stupid videos wrongly showing an ax or a knife being used for something it is not designed for in the hope of selling a piece of crap product. Hopefully enough people will see this video and learn and pass this information on to all their friends. Again, thanks for talking about this.

[@davidcoats1037]

Excellent video Liam. How about a video explaining why you use 4142 steel instead of 5160, 1095, etc.

[@nonyobussiness3440]

David Coats probably cheaper but results in the same performance.

[@zombiefighterof1987]

I always found those abusive tasks to be stupid, i'm not buying an ax to cut copper tubing and smash bricks, i'm buying it to cut wood and pound felling wedges and tent stakes. Just because you can doesn't mean you should is something lots of people don't seem to understand.

[@tragicmagicMAN]

Impressive Young man...

[@ziploc53]

Ok now I want your Hawksbill

[@mattbookter4968]

very cool video

[@327ewok]

liam what are the angles for your carpenters/carving axe, full size double bit, and single bit farm axe edges? thanks great vid cant wait to get an axe someday from you but i have old sager and rixford and other old heirloom axes im restoring and would be great to know what angles you use so i can put those on my axes and play around with it. thanks and that arctic fox stone is legit i just got one and its the best axe puck ive used by far.

[@whosay1043]

nice vid. very cool.

[@allensanderson7869]

great video Liam! do you by chance offer any private smithing classes?

[@michaelkaylor6770]

Like a diesel truck advertisement that shows 1/4 mile times!

[@keggerous]

You see a lot of steel snobbery in the knife community. I get it, everyone wants the best steel for their expensive knife . . . the problem becomes though, what really is the best steel? Is a steel so hard and brittle that it holds an edge all day but chips constantly the best steel? Is a steel that sharpens SUPER easy but goes dull in 20 minutes of work the best steel? It's all about what you prefer and the job you are doing with the blade. I prefer softer steels that are easier to sharpen and make razor sharp over harder steels that may be able to cut paper all day but if you drop the blade, you break the tip. That's me though. I don't need a blade to stay sharp for 3 weeks of continuous use. I need a knife that I can swipe on my strop a few times and get back to work. A lot of the newer steels (that are high hardness) are not very conducive to stropping in my opinion.

[@seaderforge]

Excellent video Liam. I have a question regarding your axe metal selection - what is your major reason for choosing 4142 versus choosing 4340 for your axes? Do you find that the increased toughness and stress resistant is just not necessary? Do you find 4340 to have a significant increase if forging difficulty to the point that it increases your hands-on time with each tool you make? How many steels did you test before landing on the one you liked the most? Thanks!

[@seaderforge]

Thanks Liam. Have you experimented at all with Hy-Tuf? Cost and availability would probably be prohibitive on a production basis, just wondering if you've used it and your thoughts.

[@leviblackwood3258]

I got passed by a tractor on the autobahn. I was going about 70mph and had a tractor pass me. only in Europe

[@craigmooring2091]

Yes, I found this helpful, but not particularly educational. You have made me more mindful of the complexities involved in evaluating an edged tool, and I thank you for that. Yet this only made me aware of my ignorance without alleviating it. I do not know from this video what edge geometry is best for a felling axe vs.carving axe vs. splitting axe vs. machete vs. skinning knife vs. etc. Nor do I know which alloy mix is best for which type of use in which type of climate. Nor do I know Rockwell grade to seek for various applications. I realize you did not meant this to be a comprehensive cutlery course, but maybe you would consider doing a series of videos that would provide specific information in bite sized chunks. That would really be great.

[@stellarpod]

Craig Mooring, the questions you have posed are manifold. They're legitimate questions, but the sheer number of variables involved would make it very difficult to explain everything in detail. In short, metallurgy is a complex science. In almost every case, changing any one aspect of chemistry or geometry will cause a ripple effect through all other aspects. For this reason, it is hard to discern a particular *sweet spot* where chemistry and geometry are concerned, and it will be notably different for different applications. Ad to this a craftsman's need to protect their own intellectual property - usually achieved by years and years of study and hands-on, firsthand experience - and the fine details may be more difficult to wrestle free. It's not unlike an award-winning chef not willingly divulging his/her culinary secrets. Nonetheless, your comments are valid. Answers will probably require a substantial commitment to learn the subtleties of the trade. Steve

[@jrodericklane]

Don't you have shagbark hickory around there? It's Janka is higher than black locust.

[@markling712]

Just posted this on IforgeIron, enjoyed this video a lot.

[@pastorpfp1]

I enjoyed the information. It made a lot of sense. I knew geometry was good for something. Just kidding!

[@GlenTurner100]

Eveything has a purpose, my screwdrivers aren't chiesels and shifters are for people who can't be stuffed getting the right size spanner, grrr

[@brucebarnes9138]

Let's not an ax that's a hatchet

[@evolutionglitch4739]

Liam, good info and good explanation, but next time say what your funds say in a third of the time. If you need longer video time then add in diagrams of the edge geometry you are referring to or edge profile etc.

[@alexbbmms3934]

I really hope this tree 🌲 you hit was a dead one I can't understand why people would hit a normal tree which is still alive...stop hurt our nature...work with old wood :)

[@r.d.k.909]

Alex SDM- if you listened to the video, he said it was dead. however there's nothing wrong with cutting a live tree. It's a renewable resource like drinking water.

[@daemonhat]

R.D.K. drinking water is NOT a renewable resource. all the water thats on the planet is all the water that will ever be on the planet. yes, some water can be purified and made drinkable again, but not all.

[@lukaskristensen9952]

I understand what you are saying, and this is a great video. But at one point you fumble with you examples and it ends out not sounding as great as the rest of the video.