SEC Football Unfiltered: If SEC expands to 20 teams, consider these four ACC schools

As a 16-team conference with Oklahoma and Texas on board, the SEC is an undeniable super league.
The SEC doesn't need to expand again. But, don't rule out the SEC wanting to, especially if the ACC fractures.
SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey says the conference is focused on its current membership, but he didn't entirely shut down the idea of further expansion, when asked directly.
On today's episode, hosts Blake Toppmeyer and John Adams unpack Sankey's comments and why they might point toward the possibility of the SEC becoming interested in ACC members, if the ACC's media rights deal doesn't hold.
Florida State and Clemson are suing the ACC, amid an ongoing battle with the ACC's contract that has, thus far, glued its membership in place.
Toppmeyer and Adams offer differing opinions on which four ACC schools the SEC should target, should those schools become available.
Later in the episode, an examination of the College Football Hall of Fame candidacies of Mike Leach and Les Miles.
» Subscribe to KnoxNews: knoxne.ws/2R3WbeY
» Watch more on this and other topics from KnoxNews: knoxne.ws/2G0E0R4
» KnoxNews is the voice of East Tennessee, from the Smoky Mountains to the Cumberland Plateau. Since 1886, we’ve been reporting on what matters, from Oak Ridge National Laboratory to the University of Tennessee Vols to Dolly Parton.
Stay up to date on local news in East Tennessee by following knoxnews on social media:
Twitter: @knoxnews
Facebook: / knoxnews
Instagram: / knoxvillephoto
And for UT sports:
Twitter: @GoVolsXtra
Facebook: / govolsxtra

[@KevinSuggs-cy8xe]

FSU, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and NC State. FSU and Clemson for viewership and SEC fit. Virginia Tech and NC State for SEC type fan base and additional territory for the SEC.

[@tarheel7406]

Spotted the below figures lurking the USCAR message board: From Nielsen: ACC Leaders in Media Exposure Value (Last 3 Years) 1. Duke men’s basketball ($995.0M) 2. UNC men’s basketball ($892.5M) 3. FSU football ($795.2M) 4. Clemson football ($677.1M)

[@timothyblack3322]

Circuit Judge Cooper in Leon County aka Tallahassee has now ruled that The Florida State University vs ACC Case belongs in Florida. Then he went further in ruling that should Miami decide to sue the ACC, their case too should be in Florida. I am paraphrasing “The ACC is doing business in the State of Florida. College Football is a business. It is a big time business that involving $ billions & the ACC is subject to Florida Law”. He laid out supporting Florida Statues & threw in some North Carolina Statues (law) to further support his decision. The term “Sovereign Immunity” was not said. *There are only 20 Circuit Judges in Florida & there are none more Powerful than the 2nd Judicial Circuit Seat in Florida’s Capital City aka Leon County. There are Items that may come before a County Judge or another Circuit Judge that will be mandated to be sent to Leon County. Any Extraordinary, High Profile, Government or Government Entity are sent before the Leon County Circuit Judge. Once a decision, ruling, or Judgement made by Circuit Judge Cooper carry’s the full weight of a “Appellate Court Decision”. The only place left to appeal is the Florida Supreme Court. They may decide to let Judge Cooper’s judgement stand. He is known for being a no nonsense, rooted in the law, and not having his decision’s over turned. I am a Seminole so don’t kill me. Those hoping for a long trial are out of luck: Judge Cooper, “I have a lot on my plate, besides this case”. *Think of “Al Gore vs George Bush” as a perfect example of what type of Case the Leon County Circuit Judge will receive; because, the vote counting/ hanging chad issues were in Palm Beach. The wheels of realignment maybe sooner than later. (I hope this helps in understanding Florida Court system works). 🇺🇸

[@GregsDisneysadventures]

I don't see FSU too SEC

[@chrisg4931]

So Blake you immediately don’t include VT with no reason? Love the thorough research buddy?!

[@jlamm2223443]

I think Miami does fit the SEC profile in that they are willing to spend money on football, and on nil.

[@mr.g1758]

Clemson and FSU fit geographically. But I'd like to see NC State join. If you weren't in the Confederacy, you shouldn't get in.

[@richardsansbury7453]

SEC thinks regional. They recruit the same brand over and over again. They restrict their own growth.

[@CaydensDaddio]

SEC doesn't need more football powers, with the extended playoffs, more wins for 3rd, 4th, 5th spots. Only reason to take FSU/Clemson would be to keep B1G out. Improve basketball, take UNC, Duke, UVa & Kansas. Team them with Kentucky. If you don't like KU, take WV.

[@505premoto]

Oh, great! Sounds like a plan. Well, except for the pesky fact that football provides 80% of the revenue, basketball 15% and all else 5%. No matter how good you are in basketball, you aren’t going to make enough money to make up for being poor in football. Every one of those schools you listed would lose tens of millions of dollars a year. Simple math. Just a fact. Easily proven. Is that really what the SEC wants to do? Fine by me. Their money.

[@tarheel7406]

@@505premoto Spotted the below figures lurking the USCAR message board: From Nielsen: ACC Leaders in Media Exposure Value (Last 3 Years) 1. Duke men’s basketball ($995.0M) 2. UNC men’s basketball ($892.5M) 3. FSU football ($795.2M) 4. Clemson football ($677.1M)

[@Alex-pe9bd]

KU has been doing fine for over a century being a so called basketball school. At least basketball you still see major upsets. College football has become to damn predictable in that you have 4-5 teams in both SEC and B1G that will always be ranked in the top 10 and will be assured a spot in the CFP

[@fullarmorofgod9638]

North Carolina and Virginia should go to the SEC I mean there rivalry is called the South’s oldest rivalry. North Carolina also has a rivalry with South Carolina it makes the sec a more well rounded conference with football and basketball powers and it completes there acquiring of all the southern states.

[@sochowell3469]

OK. But even UVA alums do not support or attend their football games. And working class Virginians do not follow "elite" UVA.

[@theyhateme2601]

Being in the SEC might change that…No more home games w/ BC, Syracuse, Louisville..etc…Not to mention the increased revenue (it always comes down to money)

[@chrisg4931]

@@sochowell3469hmmm, I wonder who the working class, majority of college football fans in Va follow? Hmmm, I wonder 🤔

[@michaelhart6318]

The Big 10 will not admit non-AAU members. Miami is an AAU institution but FSU and Clemson are not.

[@505premoto]

Really? Ohio State and Michigan State weren’t when they joined the conference. And there’s this…. “AAU membership is not a requirement for schools to join B1G, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ” From Maize n Brew, a Michigan site, June 2023. Also widely reported on other sites. I would recommend that you google something first before making a fool of yourself.

[@seekingthetruth2748]

So they will take a team that has not won ACC Championship or cfp in more than 20 years. The fans don't attend or watch the games that espn would not want.

[@seekingthetruth2748]

One more thing SEC wants public schools not private

[@seekingthetruth2748]

So the heisman is a popularity contest not what they accomplished??

[@505premoto]

OMG! Are you for real? I gather by your post that you don’t have access to the internet. Before you make another post, try googling it.

[@davidsabanosh9459]

uva has won a natty

[@505premoto]

In lawn bowling?

[@ssippilandelta4365]

True in basketball and baseball

[@davidsabanosh9459]

@@505premoto in basket ball and baseball and tennis,

[@505premoto]

@@davidsabanosh9459 Is this a parody account? Are you saying that an NC is an NC is an NC?

[@WilliamBush-bg7ei]

@@505premotoactually a lot of sports uva was ranked top 5 athletic program

[@BP4HOKIES]

Clemson fsu Virginia tech and Mc state are sec type

[@7inentertainment509]

UVA and UNC are not cultural fits for the SEC. VA Tech and NC State are

[@dannycady3454]

Virginia or Virginia Tech North Carolina Clemson and Florida State make 20

[@tarheel7406]

For how long and by how many professionals must it be reported that the SEC sees CLEMSON and FSU as disposable?

[@scarcheer7211]

There is nothing southern about Pittsburgh. WVU is a much better choice for the SEC.

[@Dqzmngf7530]

👆🏻💯

[@dlksjax]

FSU wanted to get in the SEC, repeatedly but rebuffed for a variety of reasons. FSU was a girl’s school, the SEC already had a Florida team, FSU wasn’t good enough on and on. In 1992, the ACC offered membership and suddenly the SEC took notice. At that time basketball money was better than football money because there was no playoff. The ACC had a better academic reputation. The SEC made a late offer and rescinded the offer once they found out FSU was going to the ACC. Coach Bowden joked about getting a natty was easier in the ACC than SEC. There’s always truth in jest. SEC fans hated that. So here we are again, FSU is planning to leave the ACC. The SEC has a chance for FSU if it could set aside past differences, sadly that won’t happen and FSU fans damn sure won’t forget the rejections and abuse for being a red headed step child. Enter the B1G, they appreciate FSU and want access to Florida and a presence in the south towards becoming a national conference. The B1G has a stronger academic reputation and tradition, national match ups will be better than regional. The SEC will still hate FSU either way so to hell with the SEC, FSU has done fine without them.

[@505premoto]

John is saying that the SEC is very football focused and would be looking at another football program before looking at a basketball program. However, the UNC community is convinced that the SEC has enough football schools and that they are next going to hotly pursue them to improve in basketball and that UNC would greatly benefit the academically weak SEC. I will be curious to see what direction the SEC goes and if UNC is their top target as is being reported.

[@robertgibbs6480]

John represents sec core thinking- FB first, sec culture, loyal FB fan base ( w or l), geographic footprint and boundary expansion. Thus NCState is perfect. I actually think given nc market, that unc backpacks ncsu into sec. NcSU is Hugh academically, largest school in NC, and is is going to massively explode with SeC budget. Raleigh is exploding!

[@waynebennett745]

​@@robertgibbs6480Since when is "fb 1st" SEC's culture?

[@505premoto]

@@waynebennett745 Oh, I don’t know. Maybe it started when SEC stadiums started painting IT JUST MEANS MORE on their walls. The ten most important things in the SEC are football, football, football, football………. And then you have to look at where the revenue comes from. Over 80% comes from 🏈 . There’s your answer.

[@elvangulley3210]

Thats fine and dandy but we all know who is in control of realignment. Espn and college presidents. Espn doesn't want fox/big 10 in the south. And college presidents love academics over athletics. Virginia is definitely at the top of the sec wish list with unc. They bring more viewers, more prestige, and elite academics. Miami also has a great chance. They are in the most talent rich area of the south. Sec cant have the big 10 in Florida or Miami. And they are aau so great academics. The tricky situation is the state laws in Virginia and North Carolina tying their state schools together. The sec will be forced to go over 20 teams if they want unc and Virginia. I see the sec and big 10 both going to 24 teams. The hardest team the sec will have to fight for is fsu. They are currently on an anti espn anti sec kick. They want in the big 10 just to spite espn and the sec. The dream 24 team sec would include fsu, clemson, unc, nc state, miami, Virginia, vtech, duke. That would keep the big 10 out of the south. improve football and basketball. And improve academics. ​@robertgibbs6480

[@505premoto]

@@elvangulley3210 I guess I don’t understand the part about more viewers. #46 UNC, behind a number of G5 schools (less than a million viewers per game average) and #58 UVA? More viewers than who? Middle Tennessee State? South Alabama? Old Dominion? Explain that part. What’s really baffling is that next door Tennessee is #13. Why can’t UNC draw those kinds of numbers being in a larger and richer state? Can you explain it?

[@jasonwalters5478]

Great show. I'd like to see Clemson, North Carolina, Oklahoma State and Kansas. This would help SEC basketball while still helping football stay a top tier conference.

[@tarheel7406]

I maintain that UNC has agreed to coattail CLEMSON. That likely leaves UVA and either DUKE or KANSAS as the +1 to get to 20.

[@MikeJohnson-cp5if]

@@tarheel7406 I maintain that the SEC is not expanding so UNC and others have no place to go. Thamel has always maintained the SEC is not expanding and no one named is willing to put its reputation on the line and give specific evaluations.

[@ronelite582]

@@MikeJohnson-cp5ifDon’t be silly. The SEC will take UNC, FSU, Clemson, and UVA without hesitation. That’s why fans like you shouldn’t make decisions based upon critical financial implications.

[@MikeJohnson-cp5if]

@@ronelite582 You have NO IDEA what the SEC will do. You have not quoted a single SEC President (They vote) nor do you have a single statement from Greg Sankey. Not even 1. Next, no one knows who would win a head-to-head battle between the BIG/SEC. Anyone that claims they know without s SINGLE source from a college President is a liar. Multiple pundits think FSU-Clemson are going BIG. They do not know either as NONE of them have access to College Presidents? So tell me again how YOU KNOW what the SEC will do and how Presidents will vote? Explain to me how you know Dick McCullough from Johns Hopkins will chose the SEC (academic joke) over the BIG? I await your response and SOURCES?

[@calebwhitten7826]

North Carolina-Oklahoma State-Virginia tech -FSU-Clemson

[@Dqzmngf7530]

Clemson, FSU, VT and WVU!

[@mikejohnson9586]

The SEC will not let two big brands from FSU or Clemson escape them. That's the only teams the SEC will choose. Otherwise, they'll stay at 16.

[@tarheel7406]

UNC & UVA are the top SEC priorities, CLEMSON & FSU are secondary (at best): Example articles: "College football realignment: SEC, Big Ten could target 1 ACC school" (Mar 2024) by James Parlks (SI associate) "Report: UNC Viewed as SEC, Big Ten's Most Attractive Expansion Target from ACC" (Mar 2024) by Timothy Rapp (Bleacher Report) "Paul Finebaum on SEC realignment: FSU is ‘third’ of 3, behind North Carolina" (Sep 2023) by NY Times Example Vids: "What we know about UNC potentially LEAVING the ACC | College Football Enquirer | Yahoo Sports" "Dan Wetzel: If FSU Can Get Out of the Grant of Rights It Will Be the End of the ACC | Realignment" (~5-minute mark) "Bob Thompson: The ACC Being the Next Conference to Break Up Is Not Good For ESPN | Realignment" (~10-minute mark) "North Carolina wanting OUT of the ACC? | How Things Stand in Chapel Hill with Bubba Cunningham, UNC" "Matt Fortuna: North Carolina Is the Most Desired Brand Among All of the ACC Schools | CFB" (~7-minute mark)

[@MikeJohnson-cp5if]

@@tarheel7406 Try adding a source that works for a TV network and is a journalist.

[@jona2080]

UNC is a bigger brand than both.

[@Almighty5-ww1kl]

@@jona2080how is UNC a bigger brand than FSU, FSU has over 4 million eyeballs compared to a 1 million for UNC , What has UNC done on the football field that FSU hasn’t done

[@tarheel7406]

@@MikeJohnson-cp5if Try and accept the realities reported by boo coos of professionals rather than a few select minority positions. I suspect I could easily find claims and predictions by both Dodd and Pate with which you disagree.

[@Crankinstien]

Duke is a joke

[@wtk6069]

Part of me wants the SEC to bring in their four big rivals who are in the ACC currently (FSU, Clemson, Louisville, Ga Tech). That would create some nice in-conference rivalry games every year with four opponents who are regularly good enough to go to at least decent bowls. And if the the conferences keep getting bigger, it may get harder to schedule out--of-conference games from another major league every single year, so this move would protect these historical games.

[@seekingthetruth2748]

Miami has fair weather fans and barely 20 fans show up to home games. The only time the game is sold out is when FSU goes down to play.

[@jamiethornton6101]

Duke would actually be a great future investment. Duke's new AD since she came from ND has renovated the football stadium and is serious about imporving the football program. Something we've seen in recent years. They have a lot of upside and certainly improves basketball for the conference. If you keep adding all these football schools (Texas, OU, FSU, Clemson) you certainly need someone who can bring you value somewhere else. You need a Vandy with value somewhere else. With this new era of CFB and paying players, Duke with SEC $$$$ could become competitive. Not to mention you keep the greatest basketball rivalry of all time in the SEC and the conference would have three of the biggest basketball bluebloods. The added media value for that could be large.

[@chuckwest7045]

It's all about football. That's what pays the bills. Duke will never be in the SEC.

[@tarheel7406]

Spotted the below figures lurking the USCAR message board: From Nielsen: ACC Leaders in Media Exposure Value (Last 3 Years) 1. Duke men’s basketball ($995.0M) 2. UNC men’s basketball ($892.5M) 3. FSU football ($795.2M) 4. Clemson football ($677.1M)

[@jeremymarsh1377]

Eff the SEC and ESPN. Overrated BS is what the SEC is. Who the hell roots for a damn conference?

[@MichaelSmith-xb5cp]

The lucky SEC souls that have played the DUKE football team are 53-53-5, DUKE is the only ACC program that doesn't have a LOSING record to expanded SEC teams until Stanford joins in August....Oh, by the way, I also included games vs Texas and Oklahoma . ND is (.5882) vs SEC, and (.6438) once you add Texas and Oklahoma. The rest of the ACC is (400s or .300s) vs expanded SEC.

[@Almighty5-ww1kl]

GOR for ACC is not until 2036 , it’s to 2027 and ESPN has a look in clause that can take it to 36 if they choose to

[@kylewaters7433]

Well just stumbled upon you guys I’m from GA You guys have a really good show I swear I could talk ball with John for days he knows his stuff which is refreshing May the lord bless yall glad I found you guys

[@robertgibbs6480]

Why is this guy so Hungup on Duke? Hes just against ncsu!

[@tarheel7406]

NCSTATE is a #2 albeit a near peer in a larger state. DUKE is a special, a Tier 2 private with a more national fanbase.

[@jamiethornton6101]

I think Duke has more potential. Now that you can pay players and NIL....Duke with SEC Money could become a serious player in football. They certainly help the basketball side of things with Duke UNC and Duke Kentucky. I think Duke or Nc State are better options than any Virginia school. I mean, if you add FSU, Clemson, and UNC...you've already won. I would take Duke and go for the potential. Worst case scenario, they are another Vandy in football (something you would really need with all the extra football schools) but a blueblood in basketball. I'm sure the SEC would count on Duke and UNC fans nation wide buying into the SEC Network for basketball content.

[@waynebennett745]

John, WHO would the SEC "kick out"? Kentucky bad - football good - basketball Vandy bad - football good - baseball Or does strong competition in those sports NOT count? 😉

[@michaelhart6318]

John hates and resents Missouri.

[@hillbillysceptic1982]

He thinks Sankey is only worried about football. He has no idea what college presidents want and need. It’s the first and last time watching him for me

[@larry93343]

I feel to many of these talk shows put to much into rivalries.. most of the country doesn’t care .. they want to see 2 good top 20 teams playing.. that’s why the conferences are going the way they are nobody cares about 2 close college teams playing , that are not even top 30 teams. Even if 1 is a top 10 team not as many care when they play a team not rated in the top 25. The big 10 and sec look at teams that increase there budget. Teams that can create money , competition and possibly championships . I think if a team in general terms can’t provide all the above. They are not a candidate

[@tarheel7406]

I see the opposite. The country and the fanbase of a school that's on a down cycle doesn't care about a spoiler game, but rivalries make spoiler games interesting. The P2 consolidation will have a parity effect on football which will result in NFL like records.

[@ryanadams9881]

I think no matter what happens every school should play every school a home and away no longer than 2 years without playing a school in conference. My top expansion schools 1.notre dame 2.FSU 3.North Carolina 4.Nebraska (they don’t fit the big 10.)

[@jansonroberts2616]

The SEC does have a full share pro rata in their two media contracts with ESPN but it’s contingent on the SEC only bringing in two schools at a time. Unless ESPN changes that contingency, there will be multiple expansion sequences for the SEC coming in pairs.

[@terryrich4889]

With the money Clemson and fs about to pay equaling 1 billion. Why would the other teams leave when they all getting paid big money.

[@davidtemple2831]

UNC, Virginia, Kansas all add to the conerence. FSU, Clemson, Miami add little to nothing. Follow SEC expansion history!

[@bigtomcallahaniv3072]

Other than Miami, which adds a top TV market and which is a destination that fans want to travel to, I agree with your assessment.

[@bradscrazylife4269]

I like UNC, Virginia, VT, ND, Kansas, WVU, Miami. FSU, Clemson. Any of those 4 I would be happy to

[@chuckwest7045]

Why do people believe that garbage? The SEC was already in the state of Texas but that didn't stop them from adding the University of Texas.

[@deadeye4520]

FSU keeps the B10 out of Florida, and it gives the conference 4 or 5 more games to schedule within the state. Don't kid yourself, if FSU and ESPN are willing, the SEC will gladly accept FSU.

[@paulvarnell]

Kansas is not the south. Oklahoma (east of I-35) and Missouri (Ozark southern portion) is though.

[@daviddejesus5376]

Duke of Death!

[@jaychapman125]

Meanwhile, Oklahoma State fans believe with all their hearts that THEY are the next auto-add to the SEC. You can't convince 'em otherwise. I think it's hilarious!

[@billbixby5508]

Sec already has the Hammer (OU) WHY DO THEY Need the Nail? (Osu)

[@arby163]

Clown show

[@jmjones7897]

Too many teams in SEC ( for football) as is.

[@d5terps543]

Pittsburgh isn't southern, at all. lol

[@patrickbarnes2796]

Wow, 😮 you don't have a clue.

[@jona2080]

Forget Duke and NCSt. Kansas would offer great basketball, brand and new territory. Natural rival with Missouri

[@michaelhart6318]

Wyandotte Co Kansas is preparing to lure the Kansas City Chiefs from Jackson Co, Missouri to the Legends Landfill area of Kansas.

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

Kansas will never end up in the SEC. And if Missouri loses the Chiefs and Royals, no amount of adolescent name calling will help. It will mean Missouri will have a Pro hockey team and a Baseball team, both in St. Louis. Up the river without a paddle.Kansas will have them.

[@Alex-pe9bd]

Why not go to the SEC? KU to B1G will be an athletic department nightmare. Just ask Nebraska how B1G is going for them. B1G will always be ruled by Ohio State and Michigan

[@Crankinstien]

Not expanding

[@stevemoserify]

youd take Kansas before Duke

[@tarheel7406]

Spotted the below figures lurking the USCAR message board: From Nielsen: ACC Leaders in Media Exposure Value (Last 3 Years) 1. Duke men’s basketball ($995.0M) 2. UNC men’s basketball ($892.5M) 3. FSU football ($795.2M) 4. Clemson football ($677.1M)

[@Crankinstien]

Kansas has nothing to offer

[@ronster2k5]

FSU and Notre Dame to the Big 10. UNC and Clemson to the SEC.

[@tarheel7406]

How can and why would ND move in that scenario?

[@kennethmayner]

Duke, UNC and Virginia are slam dunks. No pun intended. Clearly would be the best basketball conference.

[@powell4661]

No to Duke and private schools

[@noles9998]

Please SEC get your top pick UNC and pass on FSU.

[@theyhateme2601]

UVA brings another “state” school, & UNC can always still play NC St as a non-conf game (I.e UGA/Geor Tech, FSU/FL)

[@WilliamBush-bg7ei]

UVA is a b10 and I’m all for it but if you add Kansas I might want to go SEC bc UVA and Kansas Rivalry for basketball I’m come on 🫣🫣🫣

[@Alex-pe9bd]

I would rather see my Jayhawks go to SEC with a UNC and UVA. Kansas State would be intriguing as well because they would bolster football greater than the other 3 institutions