KO Motor VS Sur Ron Motor|| We pulled apart the KO and Sur Ron motor

[@christianwilliams1136]

Amazing comparison, thank you guys, it is making my future decision way easier. I might be buying KO for my next motor and controller.

[@ronroberts110]

A big benefit of the IPM design is that the magnets are a tiny distance farther away from the airgap, so they dont get as hot. This means you can run higher amps without de-magnetizing the magnets from heat. The stator body is laminated to reduce eddy current heat, but the magnets are not laminated, so its good to keep them away from the electromagnets in the stator. The magnets magnetize the steel between the magnet and the air-gap, and that magnetized steel does the work.

[@shockadellick]

The airgap distance being more also decreases torque. Both motors have their advantages and disadvantages. Where tons of snap is needed like MX you have to go with the SPM motor. Where fast technical trails are, you must go with IPM.

[@johndansby3620]

My KO RS Fac Spec rotors have pink bubble gum balancing so obviously different tech did mine! Looking forward to your Side by side 18KW to 20KW testing soon!

[@progressive_e]

Pink! I'm jelous! Blue was so boring 🤣 Oh mate I'm keen to see the Surron motor burn... Also really interested to see how it keeps up too

[@SurRonJeremy]

Not sure why you guys ain't got a bigger following doing shit like this 🤝🤙👌

[@progressive_e]

Thanks mate, appreciated 🤙 Hoping we get there soon!

[@triadxtechnologies]

I am glad you did it so I didn't have to. Lol! I love my KO Motor and controller!

[@clu801]

Oh my god the handling and also "fingering" of the motors at the end had me dead 😆 Great content lads!

[@progressive_e]

🤣🤣 thanks mate

[@johnh9031]

100mph!! Great vid guys

[@IncredibleCisco]

a motor gets toasted when you dont use the temp sensor. yah you cant pull 20kw more than a couple times but it works as long as it can cool down. Those Stock Motors was around 490$ in the Beginning and raised to ridiculous high prices. KO is twice the Price. There has to be a difference for sure. No question whats better =)

[@tigranohanyan3321]

A great video. What's the diameter of the rotor for Surron and KO? ( in mm) Is it 90mm or more?

[@animal6007]

Brilliant info guys, had no idea the DC winding designs vary so much. Thanks for bothering! 🧔🏻‍♂️👍🏼

[@gravit0nable]

Stock Surron motor is 5kW continuous, which is mentioned on the website/datasheet. What is the continuous power the KO handles? I can't see it on the website, I see only some peak values. At least, I suppose 35kW is a peak value.

[@progressive_e]

There isn't a peak value or continuous rating listed. Even if you assume 35KW is peak continuous would end up somewhere around 28KW I'm going to guess. It definitely does 20KW continuous very easily from our testing.

[@jimlahey5354]

Omg You guys make awesome videos. Why in the hell is KO not making these videos? These are important differences that they don't seem seem to effectively communicate.

[@progressive_e]

Yeah thanks man 😝💪... Yeah that's why we are here to help everyone out and get the right information.

[@jppatel4831]

Please make a video on comparing the dimensions of both the motors.

[@roxythorphotography]

Cool u did this. Buddy

[@jimlahey5354]

What bearings in the KO motor? Also wondering if they really use 0.35mm laminations? Probably do. Makes for better efficiency - less eddy current losses.

[@surrontvkobuild]

I've had the KO fspec motor for 4000 mi and I have to replace the bearing. How difficult is this? Is there only one bearing or two?

[@bongwoophet]

Great content, just subcribed. Can I use KO motor with BAC4000?

[@progressive_e]

Yes you can just have limited power. Also will need to be tuned for it

[@1917VIL]

I love this channel already:) I guess I will just go ahead and purchase the KO controller/motor combo then:)

[@progressive_e]

If your in Aus you can order it at www.ko-distribution.com.au/ If in America I know GritShift have stock on the way

[@progressive_e]

Just remember to reach out to KO on the discord channel when you are ready to tune your setup. Unless your running exactly what we are setup wise (Sprocket especially) your settings will be different. I'm also happy to help out if you need as well!

[@1917VIL]

@@progressive_e I ordered the gold spec combo today from KO direct...hopefully ships out by end of Oct. Much thanks!

[@1917VIL]

@@progressive_e will do, and thanks for the offer to help! Will reach out if I have any issues after going thru KO's discord. Cheers from Cali!

[@progressive_e]

@@1917VIL Shit yeah mate! Stoked! It's going to be a bit overwhelming the software at the start but stick at it will be awesome🤙 Our videos on tuning explain the software well but the last video is the most valid for settings.

[@VoltronWatts]

Great vid doods 🤙

[@1BriceDenice]

how many pole have the surron stock motor ?

[@johndansby3620]

Jared…you seem to have a pipeline to EBMX there in Aussie Land. Do you know if they are working on 400A BMS version of 72V 57AH battery? I have three of the EBMX 72V 42AH packs and love the compact builds with the 6C pouch cells. I just know that you are looking for more power past the current 300A BMS in your EBMX 72V 42AH packs. BTW…I have placed my order for the Factory Spec controller as I think our regular KO controllers will be limited to the 84V software currently available and I anticipate that the Factory Spec controller will have 96.6V-98V software, and hey, 50 more amps is always a good thing too! I look forward to you and Truett testing and tuning the Factory Spec controller with a 400A battery!

[@progressive_e]

Hey Mate I'm kinda in loop but obviously only so much I can say. What I can tell you is there is a completely different battery in the works. From what I've been told it's definitely worth waiting for. Factory spec will be awesome mate, you'll definitely be happy with how it performs!

[@nickolaivuicich4105]

Is the ko motor compatible with the 24f? I havnt seen any with that combo yet.

[@progressive_e]

Yes it is, we know people personally running that setup and work's fine.

[@Andrenalin77]

Thanks! What is the rotor and stator OD's of both motors?

[@alexutlang]

Great stuff👌

[@surronzak8154]

What about the loose windings on the KO ?

[@progressive_e]

Have seen that video definitely not a fan. Bring on the EBMX motors!

[@Doctorbasss]

Most of what people think "continuous power" is running their bike most of the time with in that burst range of power which is NOT what a REAL nominal continuous power is. Not alot people actualy know how measured continuous power is done. From the industrie, there are some standard for measuring and one popular (like ZERO are using) is to test this: At which power can the motor run for 2 continuous hours without raising by more than 1 degree Celsius. This mean you push the motor on a continuous power at the specified most efficient RPM and if start to the end, the temperature dont rise by more than one degree C it can take that value as a Continuous power. Now let see how you can test that guys on that KO =)😉 Also.. even if that ko can take 20kW continuous.. not alot battery the size of a sur ron bay that can take that continuous power without blowing some cells or triggeringthe high temp cut off.... that is like 10C continuous on the stock battery and about 7C continuous on most aftermarket battery....( or about 9 minutes from 100 to 0% SOC... what an incredible run enh? without any active cooling... without thermal management on the cells trapped in the middle of the pack which are the less cooled

[@progressive_e]

So I don't know any applications I would need 100% power for longer than 1 minute. My Polestar, the Surron or even any of my work cars. I wouldn't hold a single gear and hold it pinned for 1 minute unless I was testing for something. Think quarter mile drag race, if you had a EV that took a minute to complete that, I'd think you'd be better off pushing In the instro industry that I work in, continuous is 1 minute at 21 degrees as a standard. I haven't seen any other versions of this standardized. I mean other companies can make there own version of this but that isn't standard. Go zero for pushing testing obviously! I think to many factors come in to play, like external temperatures, wind chill for a 2 hour test to be accurate in real world conditions. I mean that's my take on it anyway

[@VoltedAdventures]

Nice to see the differences between the two... got the controller on the way, motor will b next! 🤙🏼

[@progressive_e]

Awesome mate! We are just working on a Surron tune with a 64Tooth sprocket. Will have a video on this soon👍👍 Just want to get it perfect before we do a video on it!

[@jimlahey5354]

How are you liking the new setup?

[@progressive_e]

@@jimlahey5354 Hey mate was that question for us or @voltadventures?

[@jimlahey5354]

@@progressive_e I was asking voltage adventures haha

[@VoltedAdventures]

@@jimlahey5354 Still fine tuning some things but WOW, I'm loving it. Just tryin to get it just right so I can enjoy some range too lol, these things can eat up batteries lololol

[@TwoThreadsAhead]

Do bac 8000 controllers work with the KO motor ?

[@Alicia-u6b1q]

so when are yall gonna upgrade to talaria?

[@progressive_e]

Yeah the telaria is really well built only issue we see is gearbox but I'm sure like with everything there will be a update. But we have big bikes if we want to hit big stuff so don't need owe surron"s to be any stranger. I do love how much more beef the telaria linkage and frame is though 🤤

[@musicbox4022]

Thanks guys! Could I put the KO motor straight into my Surron with the ebmx 60v bac4000 tune and the ebmx 60v battery?

[@progressive_e]

Unfortunately no mate the battery is fine but the ebmx tuned bac isn't written for the KO motor.

[@progressive_e]

You won't be able to use the BAC4000 sorry. I know EMOTO Bros have a KO motor tune for ASI and EBMX are working on one too. Battery will work perfectly, I have the 72Volt version!

[@musicbox4022]

@@progressive_e thx for the reply! Do you think it’s even worth getting a KO motor if I only plan to run at 12KW? I find 12KW is a great balance between range and performance. I wonder if I could gain range with the KO motor at 12KW? Thx again and great content!

[@progressive_e]

@@musicbox4022 In our testing the KO motor is actually more efficient so generally gets more range at the same power. I run 20KW and actually get more time on a battery then our ASI Bike on 15KW on single track on/off throttle riding not punching full throttle for long. Obviously if you run extra power you can definitely drain the battery quickly but I'm usually getting better range in general riding. 12KW on a EBMX BAC tune vs 20KW on a KO is very different. I have more control on 20KW without it poping in the air when I don't want it. Because you can tune the rpm torque its endless how you can get it to feel/respond. Best way I can describe it is this.... Ever feel like your bike tops out? The KO just keeps pulling and pulling. I have awesome modulation and control from the first part of the throttle to the mid and then it's all power after that. Sorry that's a long reply but I hope that helps.

[@musicbox4022]

@@progressive_e thanks again. This is excellent information. I see a KO motor/controller setup in my future. If I purchase the KO setup, will it come with a good tune, or will I need to set everything up as you’ve been doing?

[@marcussmith4913]

so whayt did you find? is this sucker nuclear or what?

[@SuperSurr73]

Nice vid brother

[@progressive_e]

Thanks man 😝🤘

[@ChrisxStyleZ]

richard could learn a few tips from you guys on how to break down and compare products

[@SurRon_OffRoad]

great vid... but to be honest I don't think its something I would go for unless my motor had already failed and I had to buy1 anyway...I understand that if your running these high kw setups there would be some plus's with this motor, but for some1 like me who will never take it above 8kw just not worth the cost

[@progressive_e]

Yeah man absolutely it's not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with that 😝🤘

[@shanelagonoy8769]

what if someone made a ipm rotor for the stock motor lol, but then again the winding still can't handle high kw

[@progressive_e]

Yeah man the windings are still smaller and cheaper

[@shanelagonoy8769]

@@progressive_e but it should be a cheaper option than buying a whole new motor, it should be able to handle like quick burst of high rpm/high power before the heat soak

[@progressive_e]

@@shanelagonoy8769 well that's pretty much what the stock motor does now. Short burst of high power.... It would definitely give reliability as far as the magnets cracking etc though.

[@johaniadames8208]

Class in session 👍

[@mattthemechanic]

Do you have one for sale motor only?

[@progressive_e]

We might sell a Surron motor maybe but after inspecting Jared's old motor we'd hate to sell it to anyone. It's probably give away only. We have other electric non bike related content we are going to use it on potentially too.

[@jimlahey5354]

Hey guys I have a question not related to motors but instead about regen. How does the regen feel when You crank it up to the max? I ride street at high speed and I'm a bigger guy. and I use a lot of regen to save on brake pad wear and tear. Currently I have a ASI controller and the regen sucks - it tries to maintain a constant current even at low speeds. This means there's too much breaking force as you slow down. And then it just stops regening under a certain speed. It's just awkward all around. Proper region would actually decrease the amount of Regen current as you slow down. This is how it's done in Tesla's and other electric cars.

[@progressive_e]

It's funny you say that because KO is working on a thumb regen. This should give you what you want, being able to apply the regen like a brake. 🤘

[@progressive_e]

I'll add to this again mate, the KO regen doesn't turn off at lower speed it actually stays consistent till the bike stops. Obviously we come from ASI so I know exactly what your talking about. Just imagine on the KO the regen turns on and stays on till you stop. Once you completely stop it'll then free roll until you accelerate again then the process repeats 👍

[@scottdmartin]

Do you guys have a gauss meter to measure the stock oem motor magnets would like to know what reading you get. I got 4400-4700 Gause per magnet. Would be a good comparison from another motor. @doctorbass also has Gause readings we need more samples

[@progressive_e]

I do have a gauss Meter but it's scale is too large to even try on the Surron or KO. In my actual job I work on much larger motors 2000Amp per phase and use it for AC field strength metering. So short answer is no.... I don't have one that will work on this sorry

[@Vectorebike]

Ko motor is the same as 165 qs motor , what do you think?

[@progressive_e]

Definitely not when you put them side by side, we have one here for testing soon. Different rotor and stator sizes and build quality is allot lower. You can tell it's made at a lower price point basically

[@Gassten]

2100dollar motor vs 400 dollar motor seems fair, now KO vs tesla motor xD that motor combo kit is over half the price of the entire bike. seems silly

[@progressive_e]

Yeah we know it's no match, but there are people who think the SurRon motor is equal to / better than the KO motor. that's why we made that video. Definitely agree, if you want the best the KO setup is the best setup for the Sur Ron on the market right now.

[@dazmckeown9428]

Hey guy’s would it be possible to ko a surron engine housing?

[@progressive_e]

Fit the IPM rotor inside? It's physically different dimensions and uses an encoder type hall sensor. I'm guessing someone might make one in the future possibly?

[@justanother106]

Thank you for the content... GLE says these motors are built cheap... can you comment?

[@progressive_e]

I've never manufactured a motor myself personally but the quality is definitely higher then the stock surron motor. Have done alot of testing between both motors and it definitely can handle 22KW at 800Pa with no issue. I wouldn't push much past that power as I'm around the 75 degree mark with one 30 second pull.

[@justanother106]

@@progressive_e thank you

[@johndansby3620]

Jared…Thanks for the quick response. I know that there are battery pack builders responding to the market created by KO Moto designing and successfully selling the 35KW RS motor. The 300A BMS battery was defined by the 5-year existence of the Surron motor that could use about 15KW of energy with brief spurts to 18KW. As you and Truett dicovered while tuning the KO RS motor with the KO controller, the 300A BMS will see current overshoots when max current is set around 280A and will cut out when those overshoots occur. Guaranteed that we will be messing with the torque parabolic curve a lot more as we mod the bikes to put that power down…Truett will need lots more padding!

[@realmagnetics799]

Interesting the Sur Ron motor is leaving performance on the table. (1) the retention of the magnets using a screw is somewhat cheap. Not sure if I have seen that with other frameless motor designs. This is replacing magnetic material, hence you are losing performance. (2) The electrical steel that holds the magnet to the rotor is also poor design. Fundamentally, you want all the magnetic flux passing from the magnet to the stator. However putting electrical steel between the north and south poles of the magnet 'short circuits' the fields and reduces the field crossing into the stator. The issue with just swapping motors is that the tuning of the controller gains will be completely different. Not sure if people are given access to these controls.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

Under 1k sub, 583 sub :)

[@progressive_e]

Your a legend thanks mate