What's beautiful about Koine Greek is that not only is it mutually intelligible to modern Greeks....but the dialect used in The Gospels reflects the common speech of Greek speakers all over the Mediterranean, especially Judeans and such. So it's not so much a literary language, like The Attic authors or Homer, as it is an actual spoken language, with some formality, put to paper. The Apostles wrote The Gospels in a language that their dispersed Israelite audience could comprehend.
@colinsymes6 жыл бұрын
A point worth making; the Greek Orthodox Church who read the New Testament in the Koine version, use the modern Greek pronunciation. As long ago as 1852, Prof J S Blackie of Edinburgh University's New College argued in his lecture, 'The Living Language of the Greeks And its Utility To The Classical Scholar' that we should be using Greek, not Erasmian pronunciation of Koine. I have found this makes the text flow - and note, the accent marks are there to show where to stress the words! (As opposed to what I was taught, to ignore the accents marks!)
@dennistakashima24495 жыл бұрын
Accents are painful! But necessary. I guess I am stuck speaking like a robot.
@ΜάριοςΕλευθεριάδης-π1σ4 жыл бұрын
I'm Greek. My Ancient Greek teacher always tells me and the other students to pay significant attention to the accent marks.
@Nathan00at78Uuiu2 жыл бұрын
I'm an American that attends a Greek Orthodox Church that does all the services in Greek and singing some of the chants has really embedded the structuring of phrases and made them more familiar to me.
@cameronpeters65385 жыл бұрын
My Koine Greek professor (at Alaska Bible College, Palmer, AK) grew up in a Greek-American home, spent 8 years in ministry in Greece, then came to Alaska and began teaching Koine at ABC. Recently he went back to Greece and his friends there told him he spoke better Greek now than the eight years he spent there as a missionary. He always stresses speaking the language aloud, and familiarizing oneself with common phrases and chunks. I've been learning that that isn't what most professors stress and I count myself very lucky.
@mv-hkrlbdjq4 жыл бұрын
I didn't know it was taught in Alaska. Palmer, is "close" but not close enough lol
@rinkevichjm2 жыл бұрын
There is a Latin series called Latin by the Natural method (Fr William G Most), this sounds like that but in Koine.
@joachim8473 жыл бұрын
I love everything you say in this video (except regarding pronunciation; modern pronunciation is preferable). I'm learning the language in this way myself - at a glacial pace - by worshiping at a Greek Orthodox parish and incorporating the language into my prayers. For those interested, you might like _The Synekdemos (English and Greek Edition), N. Michael Vaporis._ It's a small Orthodox prayer book with Greek and English text on facing pages 🤓
@davemwyman5 жыл бұрын
FYI, Randall Buth (Biblical Language Center), Christophe Rico (Polis Institute), Paul Nitz, Ben Kantor (koinegreek.com), Seamus Macdonald (thepatrologist.com), and others are using communicative approaches to teach Koine Greek.
@lionofthetribe16 жыл бұрын
thankyou so so much, incredibly helpful. Although I feel much more natural saying forks and knives and not knives and forks as you suggest. Thelogy students always have to find an issue with something !
@JSMcKee-fw9dz3 жыл бұрын
I agree 100% with you on the forks and knives, knives and forks doesn't sound right.
@jerem18h2 жыл бұрын
Must be British vs American cause I agree forks and knives, but I'm American
@someperson95364 жыл бұрын
Do you have any tips on how to find out which verbs have which stems? Also, how do you remember which words have which accent marks?
@bstein95002 жыл бұрын
Chunking. Interesting idea. It's like learning music. Learn the common chords in a key and repeat then incessantly. After the student gets to the point where they're no longer dealing with the common, then theory is introduced. Rather than becoming a burden and a chore, if taught properly, theory becomes a framework that you can use to logically dissect a piece, or, after writing a piece intuitively, be able to dissect and explain why the tones fit, are dissonant, or are a catastrophe, which can be a matter of opinion in the case of music.
@elenikarakasidou26363 жыл бұрын
Please do not say, It's a dead language. It isn't. Greek has been spoken non stop for at least 40 centuries, and ancient Greek is very much alive within modern Greek. We may not speak it exactly as our ancestors did back then, but its largely the same vocabulary and the grammar has the same logic and reasoning behind it. Koine is easy to read and understand by any modern Greek who s been to school. Koine words and phrases exist and are used by Greeks today all the time. It's one and the same language in different stages of development. And yes, I hope they drop this unacceptable Erasmian pronunciation, which only distorts the language. I am Greek and I teach Koine and it's my greatest joy and pleasure.
@elenikarakasidou26362 жыл бұрын
@5SolasApologist I strongly recommend learning the modern Greek pronunciation for Koini and and nothing else. That will help you also learn modern Greek if you choose to go that way
@mykillmielia56405 жыл бұрын
kosys/neoos is something used for repetitious hearing by native speakers without loud sound. it's hearing via frequency via the skin and then the way you are hearing your own voice, so bones and that aspect of the ear. so it's not bothering anyone. it's maybe a bit expensive to get the device but for some it is worth it.
@AnHebrewChild Жыл бұрын
what is the device exactly? And where would I purchase it?
@InfinitelyManic6 жыл бұрын
I get your point; however, I don't understand how you can claim that one can learn a new language without learning some amount of the language's grammar rules- formally or informally. I'm not suggesting that you have to break out a grammar book; but you will learn some grammar by careful observation (i.e., seeing the patterns) and/or trial and error.
@sverthSolaris6 жыл бұрын
Agreed. There are many routes to grammar, some of them richer than others, depending on the learner. My personal experience is that classroom instruction comes to life when you listen and read the language at home or on the bus, and really, fall in love with it. That way, when working on grammar in class, you have "Aha! - so that's what that means" moments; having already been exposed to the structure enough to be ready to learn it in class.
@TheMinisterofDefence3 жыл бұрын
I agree about code breaking. Ive said for years that learning Koine in Bible college was set up completely wrong. It was never about learning the language, it was about breaking the grammatical code. Thats a terrible way to learn a language. and it explains why no one in class had a clue how to actually THINK in Greek. Good video.
@porteal89863 жыл бұрын
I don't know if it's where I'm from, but knives and forks sounds backward to me
@youcantbeatk70064 жыл бұрын
Don't most people say forks and knives?
@ruwanweerakkody54116 жыл бұрын
Read up on Dr. Stephen Krashen's techniques for ESL/EFL (English as a Second Language/English as a Foreign Language). They can be applied to learning any language. I picked up my minimal-yet-growing Koine without those turn-off grammar rules.
@rogercarl39692 жыл бұрын
Agreed. In my first years of studying Koine Greek and I have the same problems you do although I seem to be do much better than most of my classmates. We are using Bill Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek. What I think has spared somewhat is I have a decent knowledge of German, played around with translation in the past (1 Corinthians 13 is my go to), and also I found a copy of Bruce Metzger's Lexical Aids. Here are my complaints: 1) More emphasis on pronunciation especially since the last ten years there has been a better understanding of how Koine was spoken. It is greatly discouraging when people speak with a flat North American Accent and even hear a Southern US accents come through in how some people speak it, 2) More vocabulary please. This would be encouraging to students especially considering how many roots and affixes there are in English. That said nouns and verbs are easy to learn and can easily be looked up when having difficulty.. But smaller words like conjunctions are ignored. I was hoping to learn these words to avoid having to look them up and was expecting them to be a greater part of the course. Also Mounce's vocabulary at the end of the chapters seem to me to be haphazardly distributed. Metzger has context without having to dissect an entire passage. 3) You don't have to be a mechanic to drive a car. This wpuld be a reiteration of your videos More specifically with respect to Mounce I feel since he has struggle with Greek himself why not at least partner with others who get languages. I find BBG somewhat like greek for dummies and Mounces ideas are sort of one dimensional. If he could expleain things a couple of different ways that would be better.
@gnostie6 жыл бұрын
Forgive me, but terms like 'optative mood' aren't the reason people are failing Greek. The thing is, Koine is taught by Western professors with thick American/English accents, plus the bizarre 'academic' pronunciation. We've tried the weird way for decades, and it hasn't worked, so why not try the simple way: hire native speakers of Modern Greek to teach the students, drop the Erasmus nonsense, and watch people's capabilities in Greek magically skyrocket. The recording you've played in the video has been done by a native Greek speaker - no wonder the language springs to life within seconds.
@Arkoudeides.6 жыл бұрын
You are right my friend.As a native Greek reading NT koine is the same with modern Greek.But when someone is reading to me in Erasmus pronance i dont understand nothing.Its like a different language.We call it greekglish.
@Arkoudeides.6 жыл бұрын
The recording is from a Greek priest from a monastery of Mt.Athos.
@mezzoguild5 жыл бұрын
I think it's too much of a simplification to blame it all on pronunciation failures. That might be a small part of it but it's much more than that.
@philipbuckley7595 жыл бұрын
it is a written language....I have used Spanish, and to a certain extent French and German....tried Arabic, but too many dialects....but at least there is a way to practice....get out there and do something...this is not possible with Koine Greek...
@dalerimkunas5 жыл бұрын
the modern greeks have dropped too many vowel sounds for it to be useful when you are studying and trying to learn words that are only separated by slightly different vowel sounds and spellings. While a native speaker may be able to tell the difference between the words by context, someone learning to read ancient greek will not be helped at all if so many words sound identical.
@Jimbo8985 жыл бұрын
How about reading a foreign language. I am starting to learn Koine, and most of it is reading comprehension, grammatical rules count, as it puts the word in the context, it was meant to be understood. I agree with the native speakers, which helps me tremendously.
@Radkondarkner6 жыл бұрын
What online class/ course would you recommend for Koine Greek? I want to get into deeper study in the Bible. I've looked at BibleMesh but am unsure of what is best.
@KoineGreek5 жыл бұрын
I recommend Biblical Language Center. I also have some more advanced audio video materials for fluency in Koine Greek at KoineGreek.com
@BiblicalStudiesandReviews3 жыл бұрын
I like Master NT Greek by Darryl Burling.
@The_Lord_Of_Confusion7 жыл бұрын
great commentary, I was thinking the same thing for some time have you had the chance to look athe the greek course from The Teching Company? Any thoughts on that?
@vladislav436 жыл бұрын
Can you answer the questions of Predestination in Romans 8 and revelations 13:8? I have a feeling that we poorly translated the text into seeming like we were predestined because our lack of understanding verbs in Koine Greek. I just started learning to read Greek today(because it’s familiar to the Russian/Ukrainian alphabet) I realize there’s some things I don’t understand, and probably won’t understand. But I want your take on it.
@dalerimkunas5 жыл бұрын
the problem with those texts is not that they are poorly translated, but that they were written in pretty bad greek to begin with.
@seraphim3r2 жыл бұрын
@Particular Psalmody predestination is a condemned heresy.
@MosesCherrington5 жыл бұрын
Excellent introduction to learning Greek
@VideoGrabaciones20106 жыл бұрын
You learn grammar as you learn to speak, just like a child learn any language.
@Dr4gonWarrior4 жыл бұрын
Italki doesn't have "koine" but it does have "Ancient Greek" does anyone know if they are referring to the exact same thing? aka Biblical Greek?
@thursoberwick19483 жыл бұрын
Koine is technically Ancient Greek but often marketed as Biblical Greek. Biblical Greek is simpler than Classical Athenian Greek which is often marketed as Ancient Greek. The Greek of Homer is older than either but a slightly different beast again.
@kevinjones21453 жыл бұрын
Excellent excellent advice.
@craighughes5363 жыл бұрын
I needed this ...τέλια
@gabrielkailash6 жыл бұрын
Great tips for those into languages and drop out easily. I´m learning ancient greek or attic. The recording you shared was read by whom, i mean what nationality, sounded like a spanish speaker.
@Arkoudeides.6 жыл бұрын
He is a Greek priest.
@ΜάριοςΕλευθεριάδης-π1σ4 жыл бұрын
@Arch Stanton Yes, absolutely Greek.
@djo-dji6018 Жыл бұрын
Greek and Spanish sound quite similar, especially if you have little knowledge of either language.
@tigerbk3 жыл бұрын
Check out the documentary on youtube: Going back to the greek steven anderson
@BiblicalStudiesandReviews3 жыл бұрын
Did you like the switching to modern pronunciation?
@tigerbk3 жыл бұрын
@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews modern pronunciation is the way to do it. A big part of becoming fluent in any language is to speak it with people. If you dont learn the modern pronunciation then you cant speak with people. And if you cant speak with people then how are you going to be fluent in greek. Also, If you learn modern pronunciation then you can speak to people and give them the gospel. I just don't understand the point in learning a language and speaking it in a way that nobody understands. To me thats really silly. Why not be able to speak to people and read the NT. Two birds with one stone :)
@BiblicalStudiesandReviews3 жыл бұрын
@@tigerbk I’m in the process of switching to modern pronunciation from Erasmian. I think it’s the future for students of NT Greek.
@tigerbk3 жыл бұрын
@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews awesome! I agree with you. Πόσο καιρό μαθαίνεις ελληνικά;
@InterFinumRerum2 жыл бұрын
Are you still learning Greek Braedon? The going back to the Greek documentary has inspired me to learn Greek and I am to the point now to where I can preach the gospel in Greek. I've been learning for about one year.
@christsagkas83853 жыл бұрын
High thoughts demand high language. By learning Greek, the brain creates synapses that will allow a more complete and genuine understanding of allmost all science, art and philosophy, including theology which is the subject here.
@iberius99374 жыл бұрын
With respect, sir: I recommend perfecting your pronunciation and accent in Greek. You can use one of two pronunciations: A modern pronunciation, like the gentleman in that recording, or a reconstructed Roman Era 1st-2nd century A.D. pronunciation. I understand you made this video the years ago and your pronunciation and accent have probably improved since then.
@joachim8473 жыл бұрын
This is so true. I'm curious as well whether he's changed his pronunciation in the last few years. Also, what noise annoys an oyster? A _noisey_ noise annoys an oyster. (This is an Erasmian pronunciation joke I'm trying out. Somebody tell me if it's funny.) 😅
@iberius99373 жыл бұрын
@@joachim847 Good one! Yes, the only reason the Erasmian pronunciation is horrible is because it's unhistorical (doesn't reflect any spoken Greek from any century) and is typically accompanied by an awful English or American accent.
@TomLaios2 жыл бұрын
@@iberius9937 hearing Greek spoken in a posh RP accent, with no attempt at using the accent marks makes me want to punch the speaker in the mouth to stop the horror. There was a British comedy in the 80s called "Allo "Allo.It was about the French Resistance in WW2.There were two crashed British Airmen who were disguised as French civilians who the main character, Rene, had to help. He was assured by Resistance woman "Don't worry, they speak French perfectly, they will blend right in". The joke was , their accents were atrocious. That is what hearing "Greek Experts" speaking using Erasmian pronunciation sounds like to native Greek speakers.
@bertrandrussell64703 жыл бұрын
I also say "forks and knives" Never heard "knives and forks" until I watched this video.
@thursoberwick19483 жыл бұрын
"Knives and forks" is by far the more common.
@giannirussso3 жыл бұрын
@@thursoberwick1948 Perhaps where you live. Three hundred million people in the US say forks and knives. So I could say “forks and knives” is by far the most common; but again, it depends on where you live.
@thursoberwick19483 жыл бұрын
@@giannirussso I've been in various English speaking countries and not heard it that way round. There is no reason for either combination of course... maybe rhythm, but the same thing exists with salt and pepper, table and chairs, pen and paper etc. Somewhere they probably do reverse them, but I'm used to hearing them that way round. "Cats and dogs" and "dogs and cats" are about the same. (Cats and dogs maybe ahead by a small margin.)
@seraphim3r2 жыл бұрын
@@giannirussso I'm in the US and say knives and forks. that's also how I have my silverware drawer set up. knives, forks and spoons.
@rinkevichjm2 жыл бұрын
You out to try that ancient language called Lithuanian.
@joaliefireservant77164 жыл бұрын
💛
@Manatti065 жыл бұрын
If learning the grammar is major for the theological principles, unavoidable and necessary, then why not learn the grammar first, get it out the way then when you read, you can pick up on the grammar and apply it as you read fluently?
@djo-dji6018 Жыл бұрын
That's not how you learn a language. By starting with the grammar, you will slow down your progress enormously.
@DasWortwurdeFleisch2 жыл бұрын
I listen to the greek audio new testament and I use an interlinear bible. Repeat repeat repeat.
@cameronburris65144 жыл бұрын
I would say "forks and knives" that might be just an Americanism
@thursoberwick19483 жыл бұрын
It's almost never used here. I think it's because "knife and fork" has become a fixed phrase like "table and chairs" rather than "chairs and tables".
@frankyancy13472 жыл бұрын
Just modern pronunciation, please! We don't want the so called Koine pronunciation
@tbillyjoeroth5 жыл бұрын
Listening to your first 3 minutes of bla bla bla are enough to make people go to another video.