Why are SUMMONS So CONTROVERSIAL? - Elden Ring Controversy

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

What's YOUR idea of an "intended way" to play Elden Ring? (In case you're an anxious little poggy: I think anyone should play however they want... don't go around thinking I will tell you how to play lol, watch the whole video!)

[@f8ze304]

I use everything the game gives me

[@user-pn4px5lr8w]

However you think works, or feels best, or looks coolest to you 😌

[@whosey2807]

Its fine to use spirit ashes but it should feel fine to not use them as well. A lot of late game bosses and duo fights didn't feel fantastic to me solo which should not be the case

[@joshua-rc8wr]

use what the game gives you people complain about summons are worse then magic you didn't beat the game until you havent used TRY DOING A NG+43 WITHOUT THEM THEN

[@magnuswannabe4374]

Strength and faith, if you can't smite heretics and crush someone's skull with your thumb than it's not fun

[@adradox]

Intended way: my way. Wrong way: everyone's else way.

[@sergeysmyshlyaev9716]

Facts

[@weatherman1504]

The way: this is

[@neondouble_]

@@weatherman1504MANDO?!

[@Jack3dize]

You are a true champion

[@roxaskinghearts]

What is skill dodge rolling naked at level 1 cool story can you share a clip against anything difficult 2 hours later coming out of tutorial like he been practicing parry on the trash soldiers

[@connollybarry7504]

a wise man one told me: "mimic tear is yourself so you won by yourself"

[@MrPsych77]

You are literally sacrificing health to summon it so it requires your strength to use it.

[@connollybarry7504]

@@MrPsych77 and...it scales off you

[@deatheater8827]

If you’re mimic tear solos a boss the boss wasn’t worth the effort in the first place you basically get to watch the worst version of yourself win

[@connollybarry7504]

@@deatheater8827 real.

[@connollybarry7504]

@@deatheater8827 except you and i both know they are more skilled then 99% of the players

[@rig4O4]

Number 1 rule of games: If it's in the game, it's meant to be used. Unless the game mocks you for using these.

[@noobius62]

Even then. It's a part of it.

[@potatogamerman]

"Shields are nice, but not if they engender passivity."

[@ZaddyGohan]

A good example of this is shields in bloodborne. They put them in, but they are absolutely unusable and make the game even harder 😂

[@rikley8153]

​@@ZaddyGohannah, if a ymfah makes a only shield video it has a purpose

[@hikkaru9751]

And same time people cry about moonveil xD Summons are disgusting, they beat whole game for you

[@mr.monkey1914]

I love how they made elden ring a more beginner accessible game while not removing the difficulty entirely in a way that removes veteran players ability to experience a true challenge. Fromsoft makes beautiful games that everyone should be able to experience, so accessibility features are an awesome addition.

[@bluevines1303]

Eatch game has an easy mode called B L O C K I N G lmao

[@yulfine1688]

I mean even with ashes outside of a maxed mimic tear even tiche sucks with certain bosses or is useless a lot of the time.. Mimic tear can be good depending on your build you're using so its dependant on you. However some bosses unlike before it's nerf will actually do more harm than good because it'll heal the boss.. ahem malenia and mimic tear mimic tear will lose even at max rank and not even solo the first phase. Unless you specifically run a rob bleed build or blasphemous blade etc then ok its a bit different.

[@wineaddict6625]

@@yulfine1688 in my fresh playthrough i used dlc weapon milady with wing stance ash of war with cold affinity. i summoned my mimic and we just staggered her over and over again it was so funny

[@n7sorcerer419]

There are situations and builds for all spirit ashes. Greatshield Soliders, great example. GREAT for staggering and distracting small/medium bosses with straightforward attacks, AWFUL against enemies with heavy AOE or shield-piercing damage (also, DON’T use them against Malenia or you’ll never kill her because she gains health from hitting *all* of them). Even Mimic Tear depends on your setup. If you have too many of the wrong spells or consumables equipped, they’ll get wrecked in the middle of their windups.

[@johnmartin8733]

I usually forget about summons for fights, but when I do remember, I think to myself: "Mimic tear, because I am my own best friend."

[@CrowFeatherQuill]

Bro I gotta say, the idea to comission Ranni art and use her as mascot was brilliant.

[@davidburnett5049]

Its cool. Took me 3 or 4 videos to realize the spirit face isnt there

[@Doncroft1]

It's a no brainer.

[@danielcherry4675]

POV intelligence build for sure

[@carian_moon]

It genuinely hurts me to see people say that they finally beat Elden Ring and then get flamed and crucified on Reddit just because they used a summon or used magic or used RoB and Moonveil etc. Like bruh, let people play the game they want to play.

[@kerozseventiel4383]

one of the big reason for that flamming and crucifixion isn't so much controlling what people play, it's people who want to feel superior because "they've beaten hard game".i've seen it often, people who feel powerless and insignificant found something that is challenging and make them feel better than others. they then get angry when that feeling goes away when they see someone else beat it with less effort than them or in a way they didn't think of. and thus instead of admiting they are not that good, they cope by making the other be illegitimate or lesser

[@LawfulBased]

All those flamers and their *_" How dare you play the game... "_* *_" ... different than me!? "_* *_" ... for fun instead of trying to show off in some way? "_* *_" ... in a way that does not GIVE MY SWEATLORD NO-LIFER HARDCORE BUILD any respect and makes me feel like nobody cares about me? "_* Spoiler. No one cares.

[@smokinggnu6584]

Reddit. Well that was their first mistake.

[@keegan112099]

It's stupid too because these people don't want you to just naturally play the game. I played the game completely blind. Was already a Samurai experimenting with arcane when I find MoonVeil in Caelid and hear months later how sweaty people got over that sword

[@idkmanjustwannachill]

Reddit is radioactive trash hole anyway what do you expect

[@HervisDaubeny69]

Nothings better then doing coop mod with my younger cousin. It’s his first ever Fromsoft game so I’ve been guiding him through it. We’ve done all of Limgrave / Weeping / Nokron + Siofra / Nokstella + the other underground lake / Liurnia / Calid (a small bit of Dragonburrow) and are now working at Leindell. He fell in love with the Lone Wolves summon and has enjoyed fighting with his very own wolf pack. His reaction to discovering the Mimic Tear boss fight AND getting his own mimic tear: priceless.

[@mr.monkey1914]

This made me smile

[@cl34n.62]

Wholesome af

[@TheRisky9]

My niece wanted her dad to make her a character. While he plays the game, she chooses the clothes and weapons. And five year old choices are... well... interesting. Her summon of choice are the jellyfish and wolves.

[@FateDarkess]

​@@TheRisky9cute

[@phantom_xrd]

Wholesome Ring

[@lindseytaylor3793]

idgaf about any of the summons controversy. my summon ashes are my FRIENDS and i LOVE THEM. it brings me joy to ring my little bell and watch as my army of ghost rats come waddling in to chomp the ankles of my enemies. they are all my little buddies and i like bringing them out for enrichment time, they will get bored if i just leave them in my pockets all day. like, come on out here lil guys, you can have some play time :)

[@zacharyhall697]

I even buffed the ones I never use. I felt like I had a pet I wasn't feeding otherwise lol.

[@oscarhannissmith5887]

This is so wholesome. My swordmaidens are my true love 😌. So much so that istg sometimes they just unlock the enemy and walk up to me and stand next to me. 😭😭

[@azule638]

@@lindseytaylor3793 Facts. Me and my mimic tear can pull off jumpings against bosses that put JJK to shame.

[@stephenotterman6236]

If you had fun, and you didn’t mod, that’s perfectly fine. This is my first souls game, not my first souls- like, but my first of the souls Bourne series, and I’ll tell you this. Cheesing a boss is sometimes just as fun as beating your head against it for hours. I don’t look for cheeses online, but I do look for weaknesses that bosses have, and then strategize for the bossfight myself. If I can beat the Draconic tree sentinel by sneaking up behind it and casting a poison mist spell at it a million times, then I’ll do it because it’s fun. This is a video game, you’re supposed to have fun, that’s the whole point.

[@Hyperdisk]

I asked someone from work, who doesn't play video games, what they thought. They asked me why I play them. I said for fun and occasionally challenge myself. They told me "It's like building a deck or something. If you have the tools available to make it easier but choose not to and are getting frustrated about it. That's not you being skilled, that's you being stupid and wasting your time."

[@mgk-metalgearkelly5054]

Some people like the challenge tho, it's disingenuous to tell them they're "stupid" and "wasting their time" by opting to not use every tool that allows them to effectively, at least partially skip bosses.

[@Hyperdisk]

@@mgk-metalgearkelly5054 I don't think that's what my buddy meant. They were saying that if I don't want the extra challenge, and it's getting to the point I'm not having fun, it'd be stupid for me to keep refusing to use those tools for no reason. Basically if I'm just trying to play the game and have fun, refusing to use summons because other people say I shouldn't, might be wasting my time.

[@ragegaze3482]

@@Hyperdiskthat's a fair take, your original comment seemed to imply that not playing with the most overpowered optimal build means you are stupid lol.

[@Iplayhardgames]

You obviously find a difficult threshold of difficulty challenging to the players that don't want to use easy mode

[@Iplayhardgames]

​@@Hyperdisk it's not that you can't use summons, but if you did use them, it means you're bad at the game

[@Vash141]

The intended way to play is to get the boss’s hp to zero 🗿

[@MrJack-rj3om]

Fact

[@TRICKYUNCHAINED]

There is no “intended” way to play PvE. The developers added a lot of stuff for the average casual players to try. It’s not like the elitist Souls community can gatekeep you from using the game’s functions.

[@sevirakalau2171]

Anyone can use anything you want to beat the game but bragging about how something was easy when you used stuff that intentionally made the game easy gently irritates me lmao. It's like playing through a game on Luigi mode and saying the game wasn't as hard as people made it out to be. Like no shit Sherlock you used the optional thing to make it easier. But yeah enjoy the game as you want, I did my first playthrough almost entirely as a black knife with tiche as my co assassin. Game was very fun that way. Then I played solo and it was also fun, games fun regardless

[@shnorkeythefourth4572]

@@sevirakalau2171you sound like someone who actually used wondrous physick, I can’t believe people actually needed that to beat some of these bosses. Not extreme enough? Bro so casual he used weapons, really irks me when people use such easy mechanics to “beat” the game

[@knowwhatimeme]

And ppl wonder why they're called a maidenless tarnished. But hey, it's ur soul 🤷‍♂

[@ThefrenziedMercury]

Yes it's good to play the game with ashes, sometimes even fun, but then you cannot go around saying elden ring bosses are easy only because you used mimic tear or Death knife Tiche to protect your ass from the 120.876 attacks of the bosses. The bosses of from are generally intended to get killed by 1 player, you can fight them with an entire army if you want but then you cannot say the bosses are easy just because you used something or someone.

[@redgeoblaze3752]

I'd say it's more Elden Ring fans than Souls game fans. They really only started showing up when Elden Ring released. there were the occasional people who would try to dictate how you play back in the Dark Souls era, but it's gotten exponentially worse in Elden Ring. Maybe that's partially because there are so many overpowered weapons and spells in Elden Ring than compared to the other souls games.

[@anothertarnishedone5960]

"You didn´t beat the game". Well, my list of achievments says otherwise. Cope.

[@mr.m3728]

Imagine being genuinely triggered by how someone finished an offline run, just because you play the game differently.

[@keegan112099]

Radahn fight with Summons was most fun badass bossfight ive ever had in a souls game. Its what i was waiting for playing through the Dark Souls trilogy. One huge multi summon boss battle with where i feel like just one of a group needed to take out this beast of a boss

[@xJB1032x]

Agreed, the fact they gave you 4+ NPC summons for Radahn's fight punctuates how powerful he is as a character in the story. I loved seeing Alexander and Blaidd fighting together for that once rare instance and they never cross paths again. Really makes the characters feel alive with their own paths to journey on and they happened to meet but don't know each other personally.

[@FighTThePower.]

I was the opposite I didn't want to summon people to hold me back I'm 1v1 against a god so I can dethrone him still got it first try with my trusty dragonslayer sword

[@keegan112099]

@@FighTThePower. and that's cool but that's just EVERY soulsborne fight. They've done dual bosses. They've had bosses who summon minions. They've done phased bosses. It was a breath of fresh air getting Radahn

[@FighTThePower.]

@@keegan112099 honestly the only fight I summoned was dual gargoyle since I thought it was a 1v1 until the other showed up and jumped me. I took that very personal

[@why_4]

Exactly this is a damn festival and I will not get wasted in it by myself

[@gedoplanet]

Pro tip: equip Raw Meat Dumpling in your inventory and watch your Mimic Tear use it to heal itself significantly

[@NekomiyaTH]

Mimic kukri spam also xD

[@Fire.and.Forget]

i did a mimic tear only run on NG+7 and i made the mimic literally immortal mimic tear + cursed blood pot + great star + prayerful strike + radiant baldachin blessing + crab meat + bullgoat set + greatshield dragoncrest talisman + ritualshield talisman + crimson amber medallion + erdtree favor

[@skunky1-1]

​@Fire.and.Forget that's mean. I love it.

[@prins-henrik1530]

I do this on the mimic tear boss fight to make it harder.

[@DaemonVok]

​​@@prins-henrik1530😂😂😂😂 ME TOO!!! 😂😂😂 I made mine so strong it could one shot me and I fucking loved it

[@aclevername7613]

Love the "you cheated for summoning!" line. I used a mechanic in the game that is allowed and given to anyone to use how is that cheating?!

[@grimreefer213]

Because you lowered the game’s difficulty, it’s not cheating, but you didn’t play the same game that other people did. Spamming ranged attacks while your mimic tear pulls aggro so you can beat the boss without having to learn it is not the same thing as someone who used an average melee build and bashed their head in for an hour to beat the boss the noble way. I don’t have a problem with people using these things so they can get through the game, but for me and many others that is not a satisfying way to win. That’s why people are encouraged not to use them or to use summons sparingly, because you get a hollow victory.

[@aclevername7613]

@@grimreefer213 My point was its stupid to call it cheating. Its using the tools open to all in the game to beat it the way you desire. I have beaten elden ring and will admit used ashes or a summoned a person a few times. Melania and godskin duo mainly. If a person does not think its the "real" way to play then thats fine but to try and insult a person over it is where the issues come in. Not saying you did just in general for those who do it. Personally I encourage a person to play how they want and so on. While it might be a unsatisfying way for you and others in your mindset to win and seem hollow thats your opinion and personal view. I enjoyed the fights I used my spirit summons against and was not a hollow win for me.

[@grimreefer213]

@@aclevername7613 That’s fair. Yeah if it helps some people get through the game, especially against those shitty bosses like Godskin Duo, then there’s nothing wrong with that. I certainly wouldn’t say it’s cheating, and nobody is born a souls god. But I would encourage people to try to beat bosses solo to get a more rewarding experience, at least the main bosses that aren’t total BS like Godskin Duo

[@harvesterofeyes8813]

​@@grimreefer213That's what NG+7 is for. Spirit summons are almost all equally worthless.

[@TheInfiniteSheldon]

@@grimreefer213 "you didn’t play the same game that other people did" OP literally played the exact same game that other people did.

[@phecto]

Pretty sure my way of playing isn't intended, but it was fun for a while. I most just rode around on torrent exploring and taking in the sites without fighting anything if I could avoid it

[@armandogonzalezrosendo2155]

And that is good! If it's the way you wanted to play the game, then it's the intended

[@ashurive]

yeah you dont even need to fight the enemies half the time in souls games

[@ronin6230]

Correction, Bloodborne was the first game to introduce password matchmaking not DS3. My issues of spirit ashes is that there are encounters/bosses designed around them. I was struggling real hard during my first playthrough cause I felt those encounters didn't feel "balanced" without using summons or some sort of AoW spam or OP spells

[@NingenSlayerZamasu]

I deadass got called a scrub for using a summon to help with Astel. The dude also was one of those gamer dude bros who wants a game to constantly kick you in the nuts if you mess up slightly.

[@potatosoe12]

Having fun ≠ torturing yourself

[@pet_r_o_c_k]

unless you're into that kind of thing

[@krampus9983]

It’s wild to me how some people need validation from telling others how to enjoy a game. Some of us work 60+ hours a week and just want to unwind for an hour. If someone wants to drop a mimic tear and watch it blow bubbles at Radahn who am I to judge?

[@RyuHardGore]

I still think this isn't the kind of game you play when you don't have time

[@VisonsofFalseTruths]

I’ve come to understand that a lot of people get jealous when other people don’t suffer like them, or generate have an easier time at something than them. Even if their hardship is entirely self-inflicted. In the real world it’s part of why people who experienced a negative period in their lives think others also should; “if I had to experience this than everyone else should”. In Elden Ring it manifests as people hating mages, archers, and summoners. “I -chose- had to fight the Tree Sentinel out of the gate with a club so everyone else should be FORCED to!” It’s a sort of anti-empathy and it’s a sign of serious mental illness.

[@fabrizioesposito9390]

Dont get distracted by the fact Deenh buffs the player's physical damage(some speels aswell), stamina damage, and poise damage by 20% for 30 seconds. The perfect spirit of ash if you dont like spirit ashes 😉

[@RIBAYRO]

Deenh is my go to ash on melee characters, honestly. It's basically a spell buff when you lack magic stats for spell buffs and still manages to be a good distraction while doing some damage and stagger itself. It's also a dope looking bird.

[@Gensolink]

@@RIBAYRO i'm pretty sure it's even better if you have your own buffs because deenh's is a special type buff

[@LuisSanchez-fj6dt]

Angry birb

[@lenlimbo]

Deenh best birb. She BUFFS and she ATACS

[@kevinlasher2812]

​@@GensolinkFalse, actually. Deenh's buff is an aura type so it overwrites Golden Vow and Rallying Standard, only boosts physical damage, and provides no physical damage reduction. TBH Rallying Standard is the most OP buff because it gives 20% boost to ALL damage and ALL damage negation. The main downside is it only lasts for 30 sec compared to Golden Vow's 80 seconds. Golden Vow is a 15% damage boost and 10% damage reduction, for comparison's sake.

[@mihaghoraprime6263]

Keep in mind that the developers have clearly stated before Elden Ring was even released that spirit summons, as they intended, were meant to be considered a part of your build. You are expected to use them. You can see this reflected in the way many encounters throughout the game are designed. I did not use any ashes for my first playthrough, and for many repeated playthroughs, as I generally prefer to play without them. I like the solo experience, and I like the seamless co-op with friends experience. Ashes for me are for the funsies, or for leveraging against a boss I've come to not enjoy. Play the game however you like, kitties. It's your game, and your fun. One of the great things about this game is the endless amount of options you have, and the very fact that they are exactly that: options.

[@cornlourd]

Can you share the source of FromSoft devs saying summoning is part of the build? The summoning system makes bosses easy or just mildly challenging and that definitely goes against what Miyazaki said on his "The New Yorker" interview back in Feb 2022.

[@OmegaF77]

​@@cornlourdWell, for one summins exist in the game. If they don't want you using them, they won't put summons in the game.

[@Itz_Brock]

Summons can be part of a build, i like my bloodhound build that uses the bloodhound knight floh summon, I also have the armour set and the fang, my gear and my summon are parts of the build, if you’re just going to hate on summons don’t reply to me

[@MrWol]

For my first runs of souls games i dont "power-game". I try not to use to many guides and summons and stuff. Past that though, the game burns and i feel like the main character of an anime. Currently going through my fourth elden ring play through, not at my target level and my greatsword is hitting fkr almost 700 at a light attack.

[@z9Vxk]

Git gud

[@Birdbrain_Dot_Exe]

To put it simply. Did you beat the final boss and reach an ending? Then you beat the game. Summons, solo, spells, melee, whatever. You still beat it.

[@1un4cy]

Just as Miyazaki intended

[@U9B]

It's funny because you have vegeta as your youtube avatar saying that

[@bluevines1303]

​@@U9Bcould you explain I haven't watched dragon ball yet

[@ImmortalityDenied]

Actually on some bosses summoning phantoms can make the fight tougher, as the boss becomes less predictable as it switches targets, and wide swinging attacks can hit you from new unexpected angles and at weird timings when the boss is focused on the summon

[@ak_raijin]

You pretty much summed up how I feel about the whole summon/ash discussion Just let people play however they want and if you judge them do it silently

[@LiliumCruorem]

I abused everything imaginable, got super overleveled, looked up guides to find the best items and had a blast playing this game. I played offline and only used spirit ashes a few times cause I was strong enough that once I learned the boss patterns it was relatively easy. I had fun. Seethe if you want. But playing games for fun is what I do and I have had and I am still having fun with Elden Ring. I’m not very good at the game mechanically speaking. But who cares? My single player experience does not cheapen the experience of others in anyway. I have never understood people who care about what other people do in games and in life in general. As long as you aren’t going out of your way to annoy me or hurt me I don’t care what anyone does with their time and that sentiment is only amplified in video games; especially pve. I don’t play pvp in Elden Ring cause I only like singleplayer rpgs. If I wanna play pvp games I’ll go play a shooter or something like rust or a moba.

[@tezz2698]

Idk, sounds like you're seeking validation

[@weatherman1504]

Indeed. Never let anyone tell you that you shouldn't play the game a certain way because of some bullshit reason. It's your game and you can play it however you want.

[@weatherman1504]

@@tezz2698 And I am more than willing to give it to them.

[@justsomebody5450]

​@@tezz2698i think your talking about yourself

[@captainshenanigans5385]

Personally I only use summons for duo fights or to distract a larger enemy. I really don't see why they are a problem. If its a mechanic in the game then of course people are going to use it.

[@Cuicas007]

I don't criticize the way you play but even so spirit ashes aren't needed on the scenario you describe either because I recently I got stuck in a fight with a boss with many skeletons and all a had to do was to craft holy pots, ignore the boss and focus to throw the holy soup at skeletons and was pice of cake. For doubles I just parry everything and support myself with some arrows and i beat them at the third round, more than hard dual bosses fights are tense and annoying.

[@Cuicas007]

I'm using bandit with starter gear.

[@alberthollow1786]

​@@Cuicas007pretty sure he meant bastards like Godskin Duo or Crucible Knights,etc.There are some fights where spirits will lift a huge weight off your shoulders

[@oscaroska7613]

​@Cuicas007, so you did the same as he did, but there were different tools !😂😂 using sny items is the same as using summons that your logic

[@RepellentJeff]

Same. I happily used Lone Wolf to fight the Watchdog with a pack of 6 imps because…well that’s just bullshit.

[@adawg3032]

I used summons on alot of fights, except maliketh. Something about that fight told me "you can do this", it was the parrying with the blaphemous shield thing. I managed to after 50 attempts it felt like finally beat maliketh, and it felt so good. i can understand why some people want to not use summons and die die die die until they finally figure it out, but i always say if you used summons and want to go back and try without, you can always do so in NG+

[@100StepProgram]

Recently finished ng7 and honestly Gurranq is always harder for me than Maliketh. Don’t know how how I always find him easier to dodge but he does take longer because he’s living his best anime life

[@cornlourd]

Interesting that you shared this, since this is what Miyazaki expressed in his interview that Death, failure, and hard-earned wins are what makes his games what they are. While I don't really think people should gatekeep, the existence of it does make sense when the creator himself expresses and embodies it.

[@alexbarn3841]

@@cornlourdmost people are still gonna get killed a lot using summons especially if they haven’t been trained for the past 10 years with the other souls games to be good at them. The game is still harder than most AAA titles even when using summons. Especially in the later bosses that’ll 2-3 shot your health bar even with 60 vigor. Even OG mimic tear really wasn’t amazing unless you already had a pretty great build, which again, most people who are playing the game for the first time won’t have. I can definitely see how a lot of the bosses were designed with summons in mind to keep with how spammy their movesets are (I’m looking directly at you, Morgott)

[@woveeh]

In my first playthrough I just spammed black flame and mimic and it was so damn easy, only bosses I did without was radagon and fire giant. On my current playthrough, I beat the full game with no armor, no summons and no great runes just for fun and man, it felt a lot better and accomplishing other than sitting back and watching

[@xLeitix]

Calling spirit summons “not the intended way of playing” is just so weird to me. I mean, From Software devised an entire mechanic, made it one of the earliest things you find in the game, gives you tutorial prompts, and puts in dozens of unique spirits, with the goal and intention for everybody to ignore it and never summon anything? That, uh, does not sound particularly convincing to me. You can make that argument for using exploits and cheese tactics, but summons were *clearly* and actively put there so that people can, in fact, use them if they so choose. I have sometimes made the opposite argument - I don’t get people who complain that a specific soulslike is too hard or a specific boss is unfair while at the same time refusing to use summons, magic, items, or any other arbitrary restriction they put on themselves. Like, no shit Sherlock, the game is hard if you choose to hamstring yourself.

[@BDster]

I beat the game with mimic and have no problem admitting it's cheese. Getting someone else to tank so you can get free hits is low risk - high reward, very OP.

[@gigachad36490]

people against summons (all of the summons not just mimic) are the same people who brag about killing malenia first try with maxed rivers of blood and lord of bloods exultation

[@apolloisnotashirt]

Only one person deserves good praise. The rest are second runner up loser gatekeepers.

[@euclidYT]

Both Cheesing the game, and playing it as straightforward as possible are both valid ways to play, some people want a challenge, others just want to see big numbers, I'm somewhere in the middle

[@MarginalSC]

I like exploring the world. I’m just kicking open the progress gates as fast as possible to get back to interesting content.

[@puppetmaster1420]

If you're having fun and not being toxic you did it right

[@empressbulby3761]

I am a firm believer of "big number make brain go unga bunga". I always like making numbers big to an extent.

[@donovanlocust1106]

​@emperorbulby3761 yeah , big number funny

[@pforgottonsoul]

@@empressbulby3761 one of my favorite parts about doing new game plus in a jrpg is going back to bosses that were hard the first time around and just deleting their health bar.

[@kodeyPodey]

I bet you edited this video with two overleveled editors irl

[@andersanders47]

Fire comment 🔥

[@Wolfy1012]

To me, I've tried a tonnof different builds and beat elden ring so many times with and without summons, that ER is legit my game to relax and chill while playing. I love everything about it from the lore to the mechanics. I am happy that more people get to enjoy something I have come to love.

[@quietone2674]

I wish you could pet the animal-themed Spirit Ashes. I've found myself forgetting I even have the summoning bell, but if I could pet a trio of good wolves after a boss defeated I'd use them all the time.

[@SPHYNX_9982]

I have summoned spirit ashes to aid my combat as a caster, I have soloed the boss as a melee character, and I have outright cheesed mobs and bosses. I can say that all these are different PVE gaming experiences and are equally fun in their own way.

[@Unknowngnostic]

Right, same. I played heavily relying on summons as a caster first time. I was so bad I was way over leveled and still had to cheese some bosses lol. But I'm on my 8th playthrough, starting new game every time and the past 5 times I start as wretch. Every playthrough I've done differently...aside from always using the great stars in some way lol. I'm doing my first low level run now after taking a break for a while. Playing different ways makes the game so much different. But using anything in the game to beat the game is still beating the game. For ppl who have a problem with summons, that's a self imposed rule. Same with deciding to run no armor. Someone can say the same to them for leveling or using armor or using a +10 or 25 weapon or whatever challenge runs ppl decide. It's gotta be ppl who need to feel better than someone because they feel inferior in other ways in life.

[@Ale-dd3ek]

I truly reccomand a mage build in a second/third playthrough because melting bosses with over the top spells will feel VERY good

[@mark0183]

Ngl melting mogh with azure spell after suffering with my strength build was something else

[@Ale-dd3ek]

​@@mark0183for me It was the black Blade kindred in Caelid He got back all the misery he inflicted on my full melee character 😂

[@mgk-metalgearkelly5054]

Maybe for you, it does not for me. I just can't fathom how effectively "skipping" a boss can be satisfying at all.

[@falsechord]

its feels good to have everything served to us on a silver platter. but after the honeymoon phase is over, we realize we didnt earn it by ourselves

[@Ale-dd3ek]

​@@mgk-metalgearkelly5054 the First Time I played Elden Ring I went full melee strenght character The magic build was for my fourth character Revenge, not skip

[@constantine7249]

I'd say whatever devs put in the game is a legit tool to beat the game. You can and should use all the help you can get on the first playthrough when you have no clue of what you are doing. And if you want to limit yourself, sure go for it. Good video! Keep it up =) P.S. Watching Nefele and Mimic tear beating the hell out of Godfrey on their own was pretty damn fun XD

[@mgk-metalgearkelly5054]

Well then your idea of "fun" is different, I simply do not understand how watching from a sideline as the game plays itself can be fun. It's the equivalent of digital cuckery to me. I'm just sharing my opinion here, I'm not calling you names so don't get mad. Idc how anyone else plays their game - i just explained why I don't find that particular play style fun, nothing more. *Nepheli

[@constantine7249]

@@mgk-metalgearkelly5054 The fun part about it is how Fromsoft added co-op and summons to the game but seemingly made the bosses incapable of computing several opponents. It was equivalent to watching a "Funny glitches" video. I am going to fight him normally on the second playthrough, just wanted to see if I even can summon both Nepheli and Mimic Tear. I was certain that you can't use the bell if you go for the NPC summon before that. A bit of a miscalculation on the developers side in my opinion.

[@rozsia3464]

I dont care, If I can cheese it I will, I will summon. If the bosses want to make me suffer I will want to make them suffer as well.

[@pointvector1951]

100% this. If you wanna do a non cheese run later on, more power to you. But as a first time through, do what you must!!!

[@KITSUNE_KONUICHI]

I use summon ashes(bloodhound knight mostly) i summoned my friends if needed help, if they dropped something for me i wasnt going to turn down free loot. I even drop extra stuff of mine when i invade... just because ive been helped before. Its called paying it forward, and respecting your fellow gamers. With love, play as you will. I will not judge ye fellow tarnished.

[@rodgersullivan3274]

You pretty much nailed it. In PVE everything that is intended mech is valid way to play. Unintended Exploits (ie tumble buff or zipping) and hacks are the only thing that should be frowned on. Even exploits that can be performed should be considered valid for things like speed runs.

[@robrobbins]

I will use anything to gain an advantage. I am currently playing Dark Souls 3. I lured a Black Knight to fight Knight Slayer Tsorig instead of fighting him myself. Then I got rid of the Black Knight by luring him into the lava pool. That one was pretty difficult because I had to go into the lava pool myself and get out before dying.

[@liquidsweg4858]

I did not know you could do that Neat

[@illpinecone]

One thing I love most in games is doing something that makes me feel the most absurdly strong as possible. It’s not my fault summons or OP as hell weapons can melt a boss in .5 seconds like it’s just fun! And I’ll be damned if people tell me I can’t enjoy that aspect of the game

[@amberhernandez]

There's so many funny ways to kill Tsorig, it's amazing. You can lure him over to the Black Knight, take him to the basilisks, pitch Alluring Skulls in the lava, or my personal favourite: *SUMMON TSORIG AND LEAD HIM THROUGH THE AREA TO FIGHT TSORIG*

[@pirateskeleton7828]

Agreed. When I play DS3 now, I always use the black knight to kill/injure Tsorig. No reason not to. Guy hits like a train. You can also get the mimic chest with the katana to fight the demon. If the mimic manages to do his patented roundhouse, he takes off half the demon’s health. “Work smarter, not harder”

[@user-sx4qu4dz9z]

Fax lol. Got attacked by the beast clergyman and I instantly knew I couldn’t beat him even at my level. I simply went right outside his temple and threw lightning bolts through the cracked doors😭 He couldn’t fit through so it worked like a charm

[@sebastiankillin7940]

this whole argument got started by sweats who feel some sort of validation for beating the game and they feel that validation is in danger when some newbie beats the game, but uses spirit ashes. for those of you who think its cheating: its a video game. if you strive for social validation from a video game, you need to have a serious conversation with yourself about your priorities. The game can be played however people want. These new players arent going around claiming theyre better than you, theyre just playing the game, and if they can't beat a boss without a summon, who cares?

[@erickchristensen746]

It's part of the game, ignore the loser elitists that try to dictate the way you play.

[@kaiju9363]

Sadly I almost always had the help of other players to beat bosses and progress the story so my first time was nowhere near as good as it should’ve been, however I’ve recently done a full playthrough using a magic build with my girl Tiche and it was very fun to do

[@honor2996]

I’m so happy I’ve been able to witness this channel start out small with just some odd uploads here and there to a whole channel with its whole identity and community now! It’s actually really inspiring and the editing and style of this channel has really grown so fast and so much the last few months! Love you! Keep up the great work dude! ❤️

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

Thank you so much for your words ♥

[@illpinecone]

My first play through I used Tiche for essentially every tough boss fight. I’m an impatient monhun speedrunner so slowing down to tickle the boss down was not my style. However after beating every boss, a few times, I then started my next two playthroughs with different builds and the goal of doing it solo which I did and it felt much better after having taken on the fights and having better grasp of the tempo and mechanics. Now most fights I’d say are a breeze for me and never even consider using a summon unless I just want to use a weird one for fun. Summons aren’t just a way to “beat” the game, they can be a helpful tool for a player to use to learn fights and strategies at their own pace without as much penalty. Ultimately driving a player to then test their skill without it which in its own way feels very rewarding to feel because you can clearly tell how much better you are now since you no longer require a helper.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Also they are just another way to beat the game, like different builds or weapons, if you feel like it, you do it.

[@kindlingking]

​@@alexturnbackthearmy190730 year old riding a bicycle with support wheels is unimpressive either way.

[@zerkker6096]

I usually don’t think there is a wrong way to play a souls game, BUT, my mind was changed when my “friend” was attempting Ringed City, and while there were I was hyping up how cool Gael was. Turns out, they gave up because the dlc is too hard, so, he downloaded mods to make himself impossibly op, and able to clip through the map. He then used this to beat Gael in a couple seconds, and now too this day he says Gael is a shit boss.

[@kindlingking]

But evil gatekeepers!

[@dildoballins8545]

@@kindlingking Your statement is a non-sequitur, how would gatekeeping have avoided a dumbass with zero logical thought from reaching a stupid conclusion?

[@ragegaze3482]

lmao, that's essentially what busted builds do without even having to use mods. If you kill a boss in 3 seconds of entering the room you might as well be in some type of dev god mode. Definitely the wrong wy to play

[@weatherman1504]

Oh yeah, it definitely goes both ways. There are people who shame others for using intended mechanics, and there are others who shame the game for being easy because they used certain mechanics. Ultimately, play however you want as long as you don't be a douche to others about it.

[@OmegaF77]

Did you seriously compare modding the game to using in game mechanics (summons)? That seems a bit far fetched dont you think?

[@BeeAVillain]

had jelly bro with me the whole time and lemme tell you. that 48 damage every 16 seconds was too op

[@brussailpook8213]

You didnt beat the game unless you played on a dance-pad or guitar.

[@FloppeyPyro]

I used summons to help me beat the game. Because I needed it. My first time was with only incantations just to make it really interesting. I used the Great shield dudes and i had help from a friend twice. I needed the great shield dudes because my casting time was slow. I didn't grind, i just played.

[@ThefrenziedMercury]

I'm not angry with people who uses the summons, i'm angry with the people who say the bosses are easy only because you can oneshot the bosses more easily and can summon ashes.

[@lastboss2418]

Long story short u are angry because deep down u know purposely making urself suffer isnt smart 😂💀

[@falsechord]

​@@lastboss2418 if you dont want to suffer then dont play the game. easy

[@lastboss2418]

@@falsechord i play the game for the sake of moping the floor with player like u in pvp

[@falsechord]

@@lastboss2418 bro you cant even play pve without summons

[@lastboss2418]

@@falsechord the reason u try to reason pvp with pve show how a nuub urself.. Because elden ring pvp and pve are completely different.. The funny part is waifu already talk about this weeks ago.. N nuub still dont learn lmao

[@LuxEternis]

Tbh, my main gripe with spirit ashes is that some fights were clearly designed with you using them (for example godskin duo.) Still a bad fight with spirit ashes, but without it, good luck not getting spitroasted by the agile lanky guy and even more agile fat guy 😅. It causes some fights to feel quite unfair if you don’t want to use them for whatever personal reasons. Me personally, I mainly use them when fighting tough regular enemies. As i’d rather not die 10 times exploring an area. I’ll try bosses without them, as I love the challenge, but if it’s obvious they’re meant to be used for said fight, I will use them after dying a bunch of times with little progress.

[@ragegaze3482]

I disagree that godskin duo was made for spirit summons. Atleast not clearly, I think the pillars are the proof that it wasn't made specifically to be fought with summons. The pillars are what allows a single player to effectively deal with them 1 on 1. If there wasn't any pillars I would agree they probably intended you to have something to pull agro.

[@rynether9878]

I enjoy playing with magic and staying at range, so the spirit ashes are a godsend for me. I did legitimately try to play without them, but I was having a miserable experience. I've been told all sorts of things for the way I like to play FromSoft games, and I've never understood why. The most common one I get told is that I should be doing a strength build. But I don't like strength builds because they're so slow and it literally pains me to play with that stat. I also turn off the music in Souls games (except Sekiro, I adore that game) because the music tends to spike my anxiety and depression. Many people disagree with me doing that, but doing so allows me to enjoy the game more, and that is perfectly fine. Especially because I'm not harming anyone or cheating in stats and such just to invade someone's world.

[@treestand7994]

It is sad that invasions were unplayable for me, because out of about 20 tries or more, I only found one game that didn’t have 2 or 3 other players. I’m not that good, so I was hoping for unexpected(by the invaded) 1v1s like I found in DSR, DS2, and DS3. DS2 was the only that I won in colosseum at all.

[@nerdicusdorkum2923]

Meanwhile in DS3 I used a int/faith hybrid build, spamming invisibility and silent feet, snuck past almost everything in the second half of the game, even got a random pvp kill with an unexpected scythe backstab. ;p On bosses that were resistant to bleed and/or dark damage, I most certainly summoned lots of help while I stood in the back casting my dark spells. And I got to the end, using the games mechanics as they were intended. And if I were to ever pick up Elden Ring, I most possibly may do it again! Could I beat it 'fairly' and 'honorably'? Maybe. Especially if given enough time. Could I beat it if I resort to cheap tricks and dirty tactics in a game that does the same thing to you on a very regular basis? Most certainly! If ya give me invisibility, I will use it. Ya give me a sniper rifle, I might as well pick off some trash from where it's safe and sane. If anything... why don't you use all these fun tools?

[@Evooon]

Simply put: if you use summons to beat the bosses, then it’s fine. If you don’t use a summon, that’s fine as well. I don’t really understand why people get so pissed about people using summons when it’s apart of the game and is available to the people.

[@sergeanthuman]

Its totally not okay to beat a boss without a summon

[@OreallyR17]

The whole thing is hyperbole. There is a difference between killing a boss without interacting with it at all to learn it's unique moveset, and well, learning it's unique moveset. It's like saying you beat Halo on legendary difficulty vs someone who beat it on easy. There's no clear cut way to say the difference between legendary and easy mode Dark Souls without creating paragraphs that no one will read. There is this need, this desire to separate the two, most elitist have settled on calling it "cheesing". Some inappropriately call it cheating. Or some will say the legendary "You didn't really beat the fight". If you Comet Azured Mohg and killed him before he even got to attack, you beat the boss, but you didn't engage with him at all. You didn't experience his moveset or gimmicks and learn how to deal with them. Anyone can follow a guide to create the set up to one shot a boss, but when it comes to discussing how to engage with a boss moveset, there needs to be a way to distinguish the two from each other. I remember asking how to deal with a certain Maliketh attack on the reddit, and I was flooded with "Use RoB, use summons, use magic" I apologized for the confusion and said "I've already beaten him before with such tools, I'm trying to learn how to fight him without the tools". To which they started calling me an elitist gatekeeper, felt the need to defend their suggestions because now they feel like I'm attacking their playstyle and suggesting they're not real ways to play the game. So on one end you have the elitist who don't really know what to call easy mode Dark Souls, and the other end being hyper sensitive and not understanding things from the elitist point of view. (Also there's trolls/prideful elitist who just want to shit on other people stirring up that pot.)

[@ZirixStrarstrider]

I love that mentality 'You use a broken build/spell/summon/Thing, you don't beat the game." and then you look at their build, and it's the most broken quality thing you can ever see, or the most meta, excel spreadsheet thing that the game has to offer. Also, 'Cheesing' is missused here. I think that cheesing, for me at least, is a way to break the fight you're on, like freezing the AI or make the boss getting stuck on something. Using a giant beam of death to make Malenia cry Rotten tears is not cheese on my books, even stunlock her, because you can fail once, and she will turn you into a milkshake. If so, making a 'Quality Build' is cheesing the game, using the same logic as the orcs on reddit.

[@MrWol]

If miyazaki didnt want summons to be a part of the "true experience", he wouldnt have put them in the game.

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

Boneheaded argument. That’s like saying that if the NPC summons from the dark souls series weren’t intended to be part of the “true experience”, then they wouldn’t have been put in the game. Yet everyone knows that using NPC summons in dark souls is not the “true experience”. The ashes are there so that players who can’t beat the bosses with their own power don’t just get stuck and quit the game in despair. A souls veteran should absolutely not need to, or even want to use ashes.

[@MrWol]

@@douglasmurdoch7247 i see what your saying, but this is elden ring, not DS2. Most people who picked up elden ring arent souls vets (including myself, although i have started playing bloodborne). And while yes, that 20% of the people who play elden ring may not need/want to use them, this isnt a reason to start harassing people over what they choose to use in a pve game, just like with moonveil (not including pvp) and magic.

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

@@MrWol I completely agree that no one should be harassed. But the players using the ashes should have some self awareness and some grace and know that they’re using an accessibility mechanic. It’s there for people who otherwise wouldn’t be able to engage with the game. They don’t want someone getting stuck on a boss and just quitting out of frustration. It’s fine that the ashes are there. It’s fine that people use them. But where I get annoyed is people who use them who delusionally think that they are getting the Elden Ring experience, the Fromsoft experience… they aren’t. Having the ashes out straight up ruins the fight, and also defeats the whole purpose of the genre, of the gameplay loop. The whole idea is to get good enough to beat these bosses in a 1v1. If the boss has its back turned to you, aggro’d on something else, and you’re just whacking it in the back, then no, you aren’t getting the “true experience” of a Fromsoft game. You’re getting the “accessibility mode experience”.

[@Dumplings13]

​@@douglasmurdoch7247And who are you to say those experience should be the way you want it? Are you part of dev team or Miyazaki himself? Funny these souls 'purists' are so delusional thinking that their so called game should be played the way they want it to get the so called "experience" but failed to realize that these method are already being used on other games even before souls games became a thing like final fantasy level 1 run etc, but do you hear them rant on other players who beat the game using all the mechanics available? None right? It is only the souls nerds losers who clings to validation do this. Acting like a "pro" in a single player game is f*cking hilarious.

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

@@Dumplings13 another person got their feelings hurt? Listen, keep telling yourself you really beat those bosses. They may have been aggro’d on to something else, and you just kept hitting it in the back for free until it died, but hey, that’s the way they intended it right? You summon the ashes, the distract the boss, and then you don’t even need to learn the fight, right? Honestly, more power to you if you have no shame to such a degree that you honest to god believe you’re getting an authentic souls experience. All that really matters at the end of the day is that, at least in your own mind, you did it. But I recommend attempting a 1v1 run at some point to see whether or not there’s any merit to the argument. I’ve tried a summon. It ruined a boss fight completely. I didn’t need to learn the boss’s attack patterns or anything. I one shot the boss while it never even looked at me. It was focused on the summon, and I just DPS’d the boss down. I’m sorry, but no, that’s not the experience you should be looking for. The magic of these games is a 1v1 between you and the boss, and figuring out how to finally take it down. You’re not robbing anyone but yourself by cheating it

[@talravid3966]

Just let us play bro

[@nkirmath8621]

I have friends who play the game this way and find it a lot of fun. I beat it without any spirit ashes because I just didn't want to level them, and I also had a fun time.

[@matthewanderson1916]

Summons objectively make the game easier but that's the point, and that 's why they're in the game. Besides the story implications and fun it adds. If you beat the game with summons ( a feature they added so you could use it), you still beat the game. Don't listen to the gatekeepers. Yes your experience was easier, but it was still valid. It is what it is, I use summons sometimes and don't use summons other times. Both are fun for different reasons. Edit: I refer to spirit ashes when I say summons. Summoning people for co-op on bosses is different imo, but you still beat the game even with summons imo. Easier, yes, but it's in the game for a reason.

[@Akakiryuushin]

if you get your brother to beat the game for you, did you beat the game? summons are bad because they essentially can beat the game by themselves

[@combine1175]

@@Akakiryuushin Ah yes, as if all spirit summons in the game can play the game for you. My wandering noble ashes will surely defeat the final boss for me, since that's what everybody says about spirit ashes right? (I will agree that there are some spirit ashes that definitely just play the game for you, like Mimic and maybe Tiche)

[@GunLobster]

​@@Akakiryuushin Summons do make the game easy if the phantoms are good. But saying it's basically letting others beat the game is grossly oversimplifying it. Summons can make the game easy but hosts can die too. Plus a skilled invader can give them trouble. The same could be said for spirit ashes. The only thing I can think of that "plays the game for you" is when you pit a maxed out broken build mimic tear against a boss. But that takes a lot of work to achieve, and is mostly late game which most people won't even be bothering to make. Spirit ashes, for the most part are just power ups more than anything. I personally prefer solo runs to not waste anyone's time if I die. Even so, unless players are using cheat engine maliciously or doing unintended exploits in multiplayer, I don't see anything wrong here.

[@Akakiryuushin]

@GunLobster I would be fine if they are just power-ups, but they are vastly more powerful than that. And it's not just mimic tear that can solo bosses

[@combine1175]

@@Akakiryuushin Name the spirit ash and the boss they're fighting, because I know damn well land squirts ain't beating godfrey and I'm sort of sure that Godrick would lose to most of the named spirit ashes depending on their level.

[@loneshinobi2682]

Speaking only for myself, I use spirit ashes only when and where I feel they’ll enhance my experience against a boss or enemy encounter.. I also don’t just default to the most overpowered or “meta” spirit ash. I try and pick specific ashes that will have some genuine advantage over a boss.. Example; when I fight Placidusax I like to summon Dragon Knight Kristoff because he uses a spear which deals pierce damage and all dragons (except Borealis) are weak to pierce. He’s also extremely tanky so he can manage aggro quite well. People should just play the game however they damn well please. It’s their game after all. Fromsoft put spirit ashes in the game as a tool to be used at the player’s discretion. Period.

[@Jansmaaa]

I beat the game without any summons the first time. I did it with no spells. It was a tough but rewarding journey. Second playthrough I am using magic and summons. I am having fun, but it is definitely easier. If you are having fun playing a game, then you are playing it the right way.

[@SolidShepard]

As my dad, a lifelong mechanic, always said...the only right way to use a tool is the way that works.

[@jayemdaewarehouse9027]

I used Mimic Tear for some of my 1st playthrough, but I had to ditch the summon for Malenia. I found the hp regeneration was too much of a boon for her, so I had to do that one without a summon and that was a mountain of a fight. I will say I was playing vanilla Elden Ring, I disconnected from the internet before I put in the disc to make sure I got the day one experience for my first run so it may have been different if I had gotten the patches, but still.

[@100StepProgram]

Mimic Rivers of blood Malenia is always the easiest way to kill her I’ve found. Can’t regen if she’s already dead 😂

[@jayemdaewarehouse9027]

@@100StepProgram I’ve played ranged magic build in RPGs since I was ten playing EverQuest, so I ran an INT build. No Rivers of Blood for me 🤣

[@Am4t3r4su]

@@jayemdaewarehouse9027 i've still yet to actually use ROB on a playthrough. Kinda want to tho

[@MaTtRoSiTy]

I suffered ER with a melee build and it was pain... then I discovered Mimic Tear and I was like ahhh hell yeah and I never looked back. I love the game but I don't want to spend hours trying to beat a single boss so I will summon if I feel I will need to

[@higaiwokeru]

I think Souls reputation as a hard game created this mentality that if you beat it then you are hardcore, that the games are made for “real” gamers Ignoring the idea that people just want to have fun and learn about the lore

[@MaTtRoSiTy]

Agreed and what's more is I think with an incredible world like the one they created in ER, it's a crying shame that only a 3rd of the players on Steam appear to have seen most of it. If achievements are anything to go by it is probably even less than that. Even ER can be too difficult for the average casual and I do get it as I gave up on my first try but it was so worth the effort @@higaiwokeru

[@zhouyongkang5331]

Summoning other players has always been an optional part of FromSoft's 'Souls' experience since Demon's Souls, so I'm not sure why parts of the community take issue with it now.

[@vitorzelao]

as a souls veteran, who only plays strenght or quality builds and never used a summon in past from software games because the internet in my country sucks, just let me use my ghost hawk in peace and let people play the way the want

[@M4lenia]

You play how you want Only limits are the ones you willingly set upon yourself I killed Malenia first with the help of my sexy twin and Comet Azur Now Im trying to kill her with a whip and no armor Edit: just for all you proud purists out there? I speedran the game to NG7 with those two tricks I mentioned before and now farm a decent 1 million runes in 3 minutes from the Albinaurics in Mohgwyn palace 😏

[@Gamer_G33k]

Yup. I breezed through the game with a Bleed Katana build, then I completely cheesed the game with a Magic Build, then I had a challenge with a Bonk Build, and now Im torturing myself by doing a Frenzied Flame only build.

[@Superluminal_30000]

Dude,just get a friend to drop you infinite hero's runes.Whats the point of grinding at ng 7?

[@Am4t3r4su]

@@Superluminal_30000 Bold of you to assume people who play these games have friends ya know.

[@M4lenia]

@@Superluminal_30000 Im not the one who gets dropped hero runes Im the one who drops them

[@M4lenia]

@@Gamer_G33k Hell yeah! Thats the way to play! Increase challenge little by little! Nobodys gonna no hit the game like a "proud purist" on their first playthrough

[@manofthewest5395]

My problem with the spirit ash mechanic is that Fromsoftware is in a difficulty arms race and the fact that some bosses are so oppressive that it seems that they were designed to be played with summons is against the essence of what made these games fun for me. I want a fair single player challenge. I've beaten every boss in the game solo with the exception of Godskin Duo, but some bosses are so overtuned with things like delayed attacks, aoe spam, input reading, and hyper-aggression that they become unfun to fight solo.

[@karimabouelkhair6906]

cheesing malania with mohgs spear was the most fun moment in the game for me

[@vampiricn1ght]

I wanted to be upset about people saying this, but then remembered that a decent number of the people in my life who make this argument are the same people who look up broken, exploitable builds to overpower/cheese bosses

[@AnneWest_]

In my first play through of elden ring I didn’t summon any players or creatures and had a blast learning the bosses attack patterns and come up with strategies to counter their actions with my build while enjoying the challenge. In my first play through of dark souls 3, my entry into the souls series, I summoned help for a lot of bosses and looked up and followed all of the meta guides. Even so I enjoyed playing the game so much that I invested hundreds of hours into the game and played all the others in the series. I slowly started learning about the games and their bosses, summoning for some and going solo for others until I learned enough that none of the bosses challenged me enough that I needed any help. So instead I put down my own summon sign and loved spending hours helping random hosts in need and I love seeing their gestures and block spams as they celebrate beating the boss or an invader or getting through a tough area that I helped them navigate when they seemed lost and showed them all the unique or important items in the area. Sharing moments with the community just made the game so much better, so regardless of how you or someone else plays the game, kindness makes it better for everyone. Don’t insult others for how they play the game because it’s ok to get help when you need it. Odds are the people who boast are just too proud to admit that they needed help at some point too

[@jackkingoff-t1r]

7:46 waifu got BARS

[@playwithfyre1638]

I never learned how to summon after I beat my first playthrough, but I still believe summons (or any other mechanic created by the devs) are part of the game and, therefore, shouldn't be gatekept. Play and enjoy the game that you bought with your own money. You don't need to validate your game to some degenerate online saying otherwise. I'm totally against cheaters and bug abusers, though.

[@electrical_blast]

I’m 5 hours in and I love my wolves, I don’t care what others say. And I can’t believe that people think that if they tell a random person on the internet that they beat the game on “hard”mode, that it makes them cool. A humble man is infinitely cooler than a man who wins and boasts.

[@emoimo4171]

Nobody has a problem with random ashes of war like the wolves (at least, nobody who’s not an absolute loser) The only things the community sometimes has a “problem” with are things that completely trivialize the game, like Mimic Tear, and summoning other human players to let them do most of the work At least on your first playthrough. After that, go nuts and break the game however you want lol (Not that you can’t do that on your first playthrough anyway, if you wanna. Just not recommended)

[@NoName75241]

I don’t care about being good or not I just wanna beat a dark soul games for once 😂

[@U9B]

you didn't beat it

[@Barrothmaster452]

@@U9B yes he did elitist

[@U9B]

@@Barrothmaster452 He didn't.

[@FoodKingWolfie]

I support cheese strats, but I dont use them right off. Boss giving me too much trouble after like 6 tries? Cheese Time.

[@ZephyrTheFallen]

There is no right or wrong way to play the game, You wanna beat it with sheer bruteforcing and determination? By all means do so. You wanna summon a couple friends to help beat the bosses? Go right on ahead. You wanna summon ashes to fight the unholy spawns? Go right on ahead. The only thing I will never agree with is making yourself OP for your very first playthrough, because doing that you deny yourself the proper souls experience, take it bit by bit and enjoy it.

[@mnemonic6047]

the elitist would say : "the chad way to play the game is not to install the game and finish the game"

[@MisterPuck]

My only problem with Spirit Ashes is that I feel like certain bosses were designed around you using them. I don’t think certain endgame bosses would be nearly as difficult if there were no free helpers to use. I mean FromSoft _really_ went overbaord with the aggression and movesets of some of these bosses. Malenia’s Waterfowl Dance and innate healing are good examples of things I think either would be easier to dodge or entirely non-existent, because those are just absolutely ridiculous solo. edit: it also occurs to me that it could be the other way around, FromSoft realized some of their bosses were going overboard and added Spirit Ashes as a balancing measure. Regardless I think it speaks to an issue with their development and they need to reign themselves in more.

[@TowaruTsura]

In my first playthrough, I actually found Malenia was harder with summons, whether players or spirits, because of how she heals when she damages them. The first time I killed her was fighting her solo because I could dodge nearly everything and keep her from recovering HP. IIRC, the glitch that let her heal whenever she attacked instead of whenever she hit was patched in between my attempts.

[@blasianking4827]

There is no shot a summon doesn't make even the Malenia fight easier; if you're using the strong summons (e.g. Black Knife Tiche, Mimic) they will far outdamage any healing she can get off hitting your summon, especially if you have a very strong build yourself. @@TowaruTsura

[@dantelordofangels1773]

If you beaten sekiro nobody can tell you how to play anything, you already proven yourself

[@JordanAbercrombie-tm5cu]

"YOU CHEATED!!!!!!" didn't they put summons in the game for people to use? "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! THEY ADDED THAT FOR BAD PLAYERS!!!!!"

[@Nikolai572]

I use my summon (now the mimic) every chance I can.

[@williamjamesayers7719]

There was also most recently people complaining about the spell for thorns, and that they were 'too powerful '.

[@Freyafanboy90]

These games are tough enough. I'll take an advantage I can get. The summons are nice to use and they really make things easier. The Mimic tear is always my go to.

[@SonaChainsaw]

0:04 same people will gank you in invasions unless you don’t gank people in invasions, I’m not taking your opinion to heart as far as I’m concerned someone in your level 150 friend the beat my level 40 tarnished is cheating 💀 in the literal sense you are abusing a game mechanic

[@foxoftheznow8705]

For my first playthrough I decided to use summons. It's like in DnD. You can summon creatures, it makes you feel like the bond you've made with these entities transforms in your strength. Netherless, I decided for my second build to not use them. Fighting bosses with ashes of war makes me progress the game and not lose interest, while I watch the bosses moveset and strategise on the possible attacks I could use. Having lots of fun.

[@Obozo_Gaming]

I always reply with "If they didn't want me to use summons, why did they add it as a key part of the game?" to the argument.

[@SereneLeskovsky]

I do have one niche concession to bring up; People typically use overpowered weapons/spirits not by discovery, but through meticulous searching to find the easiest way possible to finish the game. RoB/Mimic Tear is so common for a reason, and its entirely due to its reputation. This on its own isnt an issue of course, but some of these exact people go on to obnoxiously call the game "too easy" and that the players who dont play their way are just bad at the game. The kinds of people who say "I dont see how people had trouble with Malenia, I did it first try with my rob mimic build" Theyre rare, and theyre often bait, but when they arent, those are the times I feel inclined to agree with elitists.

[@valkeitos]

Personally I like to use spirit ashes only when I'm fighting an irritating boss or getting ganked by enemies because that lets me enjoy the game more. Otherwise I'll fight solo against solo bosses. The exception to this was Radahn for the same reason everyone does it, the festival to grant him an honorable ddefeat.

[@lucasezequielpereiracaitan9983]

What a stupid debate to begin with. One of the main points of videogames is to present the player with a challenge, having multiple ways to resolve that challenge isn't bad, it's up to the player to choose the one who fits him the most.

[@jeremyspeaks7152]

The whole idea of "You dont play the game the way i do, so its wrong" has never made any sense to me at all

[@marzzattak]

ER was my first souls and mimic did a LOT of heavy lifting. Since then, I've played and beat Demon's Souls, Sekiro and Bloodborne. It gave me the confidence to try ER with no summons. It does give you a different sense of accomplishment. But I still have a co-op save because sometimes you just want to beat bosses with a friend and dabble in PVP (thanks to this channel, I've gotten a lot better!!) The intended way to play the game is to get your $$ worth and have fun. It can be as challenging and as laid back as you want at the same time. People need to chill.