Khloe & Kim aren't going to let this slide so easily!
@Youtubegh562 жыл бұрын
So they have always been so desperate to start drama in Kourtney's love life for a storyline coz Kourtney is the only one who carries the show....now that she is happily married they are using Scott in the coming season to start drama in Kourtney's marriage for a storyline after Kourtney sternly told them not to....no wonder Kourtney is disgusted with them and Khlogre betrayed Kourtney her number one protector immediately Kim fed her crumbs.
@ericgil12662 жыл бұрын
I about screamed when I heard kloe💀💀💀
@missk25592 жыл бұрын
LMFAO KHLOE “I would NEVER let someone treat me like that!” ….. oh that aged incredibly well.
@jillisaacs84482 жыл бұрын
I was gonna say the same thing!!!! 🤣🤣
@nahtayrome60072 жыл бұрын
I would never let someone do that to me 15 times that's where I draw the line. Done over dead 💀 🤣
@kikiUN12 жыл бұрын
Was thinking the same 🥴
@kurkland132 жыл бұрын
😭😭😭😭😭😭
@meow-rh5to2 жыл бұрын
That’s what happens when you date black men. They love making babies, not families 😂😂😂😂😂
@danielabaldeagle2 жыл бұрын
He got so defensive real quick when she called him! That tellls you immediately he was up to no good 🚩
@legally_ellecee2 жыл бұрын
Yep he was waiting for her to tell him what she knew before he confesses to anything. Scot treated Kourt terribly and he didn’t deserve to keep her as long as he did.
@regaliaretailfashionmerch43142 жыл бұрын
@akbar ali wow thanks for this comment , very insightful
@KittyJacque_2 жыл бұрын
@akbar ali wow you should get an award for such a sob story.. stop making her the victim in everything and stop blaming her family for her misery. she's not a saint and she's a grown woman who should know better. are you kourtney stans gonna ever stop crying for her???? jeez..
@KittyJacque_2 жыл бұрын
@akbar ali she is miserable, she literally has everything and she still finds a reason to complain. of course in every family there is always someone who seems “less preferred” but that’s not her case so to say that she kept getting in relationships just because of that is absurd. so by your logic, if she were “appreciated” by her family she wouldn’t have gotten a boyfriend ??? you sound pathetic and on a whole another level of crying for kourtney. she isn’t any special or better or lesser than anyone in her family. you’re either projecting or have created in your head all this deep drama about her just because you’re a stan…
@regaliaretailfashionmerch43142 жыл бұрын
@@KittyJacque_ who hurt you lol, you CERTAINLY HAVE NOT healed, rush please FYI you're the miserable one, not Kourtney with her happy beginning
@OMGitsShrimp2 жыл бұрын
You know, watching these old clips of Kourtney and Scott and the years that followed, and then seeing Kourtney with Travis now, I feel like I can really see how her relationship with Scott affected her and just weighed her down for so many years. Seeing her in the beginning of her relationship with Scott so affectionate and open was like a shock to me because I just forgot she was ever like that because a lot of the following years it was turmoil, on again, off again, her being cold in response to him. A part of me saw her coldness to Scott as a fault she has but I think it’s her defense mechanism. Even when she was cold toward her family sometimes, I think she low key resented how they were welcoming to Scott and sometimes overlooked his bad treatment of her etc. and that prompted her to be cold to them at times. Cause now when you see her with Travis, she a totally different person. It’s like night and day. Even though I wouldn’t call myself a fan of hers, I’m still happy for her considering everything. Sometimes it takes seeing a person really happy to understand just how miserable they were before.
@khaliltaylor28732 жыл бұрын
Scott will always be apart there life he has no more family of his own so I feel like when there were togther and him going to talk to her sister about messed up the whole dynamic of it all
@avamelia74102 жыл бұрын
Absolutely agree!
@Panger312 жыл бұрын
I just cannot understand why he thought it was ok?! They have children and they are now on the internet, I would be ashamed if my children knew I treated their Mother poorly…
@theluckienurse2 жыл бұрын
To be honest, the way that she is with Travis now (making out with him and literally on top of him every 2 seconds), Is how she was with Scott when the show started…
@katiie72 жыл бұрын
Yea she had to shield her heart
@jadeshaw95682 жыл бұрын
I can see why she’s so obsessed with Travis, complete opposite of Scott
@alimay43422 жыл бұрын
@Nicole If you're not obsessed with your partner, you shouldn't be together
@jadeshaw95682 жыл бұрын
@Nicole I’m well aware, thank you so much.
@jadeshaw95682 жыл бұрын
@@alimay4342 100%
@travelfoodielove2 жыл бұрын
It’s called the honeymoon phase girl 😂
@caramelbilquees2 жыл бұрын
Travis is everything I've ever wanted ♥️❤️♥️ sweet, kind, loving, humble and very unselfish yeah kind of not like Scott sad to say
@KLB12182 жыл бұрын
“He’s one person with you, and another person when he’s not” has been Scott’s entire personality
@wcolautti2 жыл бұрын
He’s a Gemini.
@somewhereintimeclock26352 жыл бұрын
And he was even worse when he drank.
@barb71242 жыл бұрын
Narcissist
@chulababy2120 Жыл бұрын
Scott is weird and always has been
@mikeyisbombable2 жыл бұрын
"I just would never let someone treat me like that" years later: *Tristan Thompson has entered the chat*
@g.ecoleman59102 жыл бұрын
Tristan’s not the first to cheat on her, there was also Lamar and Rashad McCants as well. Khloe is the queen of doormats when it comes to men so she shouldn’t talk.
@aichakouy2 жыл бұрын
It’s karma stg
@berlynochich87952 жыл бұрын
Hahahahhaaaa,wicked
@KatelinTheKat2 жыл бұрын
Scott called Khloe a bodygaurd!.! Wow
@AAPPUK2 жыл бұрын
Why was Khloe called the fat sister?! She's taller, not fat! She's so slim here, the media was cruel to her and it's impacted her so much.
@kc-vx6dc2 жыл бұрын
So true! 🥺
@ClearKnowingFeelingHearing2 жыл бұрын
I was looking at that too. The media’s pretty bad for fat shaming, but back just a decade ago it was BRUTAL.
@ilikeyoutube8362 жыл бұрын
Yeah she really was never fat. She was just bigger/taller than her sisters. Kim and Kourtney are curvy but they're tiny. Khloe is actually just a normal size
@miac2382 Жыл бұрын
No one called her fat she called herself fat. They just called her bigger. She was more bigger and pudgy then but not fat
@sassyhassy Жыл бұрын
I'm watching this, and I'm like Khloe is so pretty here
@soumimajumder60762 жыл бұрын
Nobody deserves a man like Scott.. He is the reason behind Kourtney's lost self esteem and anxiety issues........ Happy that she is in a better head space right now..
@addisperez82052 жыл бұрын
He was a narcissist & he calls himself,"LORD." ** MY son's dad was like him. He was always going out & partying with his friends & family,while leaving his wife & kids at home.
@jamirajones90932 жыл бұрын
“As a joke we like looked into each others eyes”💀💀
@unknowncoolkid78182 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@faizahasan32842 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂
@dest47642 жыл бұрын
I was looking for this comment 😂 like her kno he lying an she believed him like that
@xredb2 жыл бұрын
I know right?🤣🤣🤣
@bluelight86642 жыл бұрын
it sounds ridiculous but i must say he was convincing the way he said it without flinching
@daiziemaningding56402 жыл бұрын
It's so sad how they looked so close before and Kourtney really relied on her sisters but now they're just constantly fighting and talking behind each other's backs.
@marcelaenriquez36792 жыл бұрын
Kourt has not aged! She looks exactly the same ☺️🥰
@lizmarie8942 жыл бұрын
Facts, her beauty is the most underrated in the show
@thetruesoulofanaquarius93022 жыл бұрын
Facts
@girl6girl62 жыл бұрын
@@supremesoulchild6149 Kourtney always had the best body, still does
@sss19692 жыл бұрын
@@loveplurlovemolly its not a bad thing, its a privilege to get older 👍
@KittyJacque_2 жыл бұрын
lol she has but you guys are too blind to see. you can she how much she's aged in unfiltered pap pictures. when she doesn't use botox or any other cosmetic procedures, she heavily filters her photos and videos to keep the dumb narrative you guys believe and praise her for
@oliviamartini97002 жыл бұрын
Love how they always act so busy, yet they never had a customer.
@kellykirk42442 жыл бұрын
🤣😂 that’s hilarious and true.
@Mandyngubane182 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣
@melissajurado23282 жыл бұрын
They closed the shop to film in it.
@kellykirk42442 жыл бұрын
Oh! I guess that makes sense 🤪😂
@Silveryback2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha, that's a good point!
@paprika79302 жыл бұрын
I miss when their emotions, interactions, scene cuts, .... just the show in general felt more authentic and natural.
@deaputri30162 жыл бұрын
Lol it’s the botox
@spicydorito99942 жыл бұрын
@@deaputri3016 HAHAHAH
@Parapapahaha2 жыл бұрын
Reality TV back in the days were all like this. It’s all different now!
@anae.7692 жыл бұрын
Funny thing is there were fake and staged moments even back then, its just nowadays they're boring and unrealistic especially with their show on Hulu.
@priyas12292 жыл бұрын
@@anae.769 totally, I don't think people realize how much it was staged back then. In old episodes you can tell by their outfits that they would literally film scenes when they were allegedly in a huge fight and then out to lunch together, but they were filmed the same day and made to look like it was real
@Ari-ge5cp2 жыл бұрын
Kourtney gave most content during the beginning. Shes tired of airing her life. Dont blame her!
@goltu772 жыл бұрын
Never give 2nd chance to a cheater.Never
@h0rriphic2 жыл бұрын
Correct. They will never be totally honest with you. Move on.
@milenaromero44272 жыл бұрын
Like kloe with tristan
@miac23822 жыл бұрын
Well I believe anyone can change if they want to. Statically they say that most people cheat it's really higher percentage. If this what you say everybody would be single
@chamomile36202 жыл бұрын
@@miac2382 i hope ur correct. Already gave 2 chances to my bf. Idk how mad ill go if i find out he did it again. 💔 and b4 anybody would lookdown on me, yes i dont love myself. Im a useless human.being
@sadepayne2 жыл бұрын
@@chamomile3620 Leave his a** and meet a better man that will give you better.
@cherryonasundae2 жыл бұрын
The irony of Khloe saying “you need to dump him” 😂😂 man Khloe has changed and not for the better!!!
@siyasteers2 жыл бұрын
Literally 😂😂😂😂😂
@minettecrowther3852 жыл бұрын
Scott's biggest argument for people to feel sorry for him is that he doesn't have a family. But he should have thought about that before he started entertaining other women while being with Kourtney
@TT.31232 жыл бұрын
Isn’t it ironic how he’s subconsciously losing the one thing he’s trying not to lose again
@hopeg02 Жыл бұрын
Right? He had a huge family and he still dogged her even after they had kids and they could have fixed things. Makes me upset bc he could have acted quicker but I’m happy for kourt now
@maryware39152 жыл бұрын
I need sisters like this in my life especially rn , people can say what they want about the Kardashian sisters but they support each other and that's everything!!!
@LCc4fam2 жыл бұрын
Same here. My whole family is dysfunctional and toxic as f$ck. I’ve always appreciated how they have each others backs no matter how bad they screw up. 😢
@ariane77752 жыл бұрын
So he cheated on her pretty early, should have left then :(
@JordanHoward-d2c11 ай бұрын
relationships change when you have children involved and you wanna believe the person would change. she believed with all of her that he would change and he didn't.
@klickingkayasmr75856 ай бұрын
@@JordanHoward-d2c…..wasn’t he cheating before the kids too?
@julietzepeda78372 жыл бұрын
"And why are you staring into people's eyes" lol
@chrissymarie43282 жыл бұрын
Khloe "I would never let someone test me like that" where is that Khloe? 🤨
@Fatoumata._Diaby2 жыл бұрын
Frrr 😭.
@saraworkneh53772 жыл бұрын
She is very young here she don't know life comes this horrible thing
@AnaAlvarez-ph5sl2 жыл бұрын
Lamar broke her ….. and then Tristán shattered her
KUWTK was becoming a hit show, of course Scott wasn't ready to let Kourt go so easily! lol! Also, seriously where did this Khloe go?!
@Anavaeevaee2 жыл бұрын
Kim was so beautiful here! No I’m not saying she isn’t now please don’t come at me but she really didn’t need any work done when she was so naturally gorgeous
@TT.31232 жыл бұрын
She was gorgeous natural! Such an exotic look and such unattainable beauty. With all the work she’s had done now, she doesn’t stand out against all the other people that got that much work done. Still beautiful but just doesn’t stand out. Too many exact lookalikes out there
@Jordan-bj5cd2 жыл бұрын
same thing with khloe. they’re both so naturally pretty, but pretty now too
@TT.31232 жыл бұрын
@@Jordan-bj5cd agreed
@pocahonttis37072 жыл бұрын
Idky all celebrities do this. Most of them be obviously pretty and it’s almost like their blind to their natural beauty that they change something that was actually clearly perfect. It has to be a sickness because it doesn’t make sense
@angelbrigg2 жыл бұрын
Love how Khloe says "I just would never let someone treat me like that." Oh Khloe you need to rewatch this yourself.
@justinebailey53332 жыл бұрын
Right
@atelimakaveli16512 жыл бұрын
This is the exact moment her relationship with Scott should have ended. But she kept it going and decided to have kids with him just to marry Travis in the end. Sometimes we put ourselves through heartache expecting that person will change. But everything happens for a reason and she got her beautiful kids ❤
@yasminevine Жыл бұрын
yeah I was thinking the same. All this time she knew Travis but was holding on to drama with Scott. She couldve been with him sooner but I am happy she is happy now!!
@Vankotimanusvanij2 жыл бұрын
khloe is the complete opposite of her confident self she used to be
@SandySanderson_952 жыл бұрын
It’s really sad, I feel like social media and people he being mean caused it
@kaylavarela72152 жыл бұрын
She had confidence in love and knowing she was safe there until Lamar broke her down. Their marriage was very hard with his struggles and him cheating. It changed a lot about how she valued herself and the Media continued to bully her for years so she really lost any confidence. She always said she felt like she wasn’t related to them. Her and rob were always heavier at times, esp as babies and little kids but you can tell her and him just took after each other more than the other girls. It’s sad to see her constantly changing her body only to still be unhappy.
@carcar972 жыл бұрын
Damn. And to think she carried on with him for 10 years after that.
@TT.31232 жыл бұрын
Many women do 😔 sad
@KittyJacque_2 жыл бұрын
I mean she can't blame anyone else but herself. scott showed his true colors since the beginning and she still stayed with for that long.
@Lynn-zx3th2 жыл бұрын
When I see these old episodes I really can see how they got so big!
@md83882 жыл бұрын
Kourtney was just as loving and affectionate with Scott as she is with Travis now
@janetweber67752 жыл бұрын
I miss when Khloe was REAL
@miac23822 жыл бұрын
She wasn't real. Hypocrite maybe real no. Even then she has men ch eating on her too but yet they all come for Scott 🙄
@bayleeg99052 жыл бұрын
Kourtney dodged a bullet.She loved scott and fought for him when her family wasnt so keen on him.She asked the family to respect him etc and the whole time he was cheating..I understand why Kourtney is so inlove with travis now because she never realised somebody can treat her better.
@Love-vg4sl2 жыл бұрын
Kourt still looks exactly the same,Koko is always the supportive sis.🥰
@amysmith2692 жыл бұрын
koko is always my FAV. she keeps it REAL
@Em310n2 жыл бұрын
“It was just a joke” 💀 SUCH A LIE I STILL DONT BELIEVE HIM STILL TO THIS DAY 👊
@kimnunnemchongloi96002 жыл бұрын
The way Khloe defend her sister ❤️
@corrieleigh8082 жыл бұрын
The gag is Khloe saying she would never let someone treat her like that lol
@Shellxo4202 жыл бұрын
I will always love the older seasons! They seemed more genuine and real. ❤️
@rachaelford55252 жыл бұрын
I love how supportive and loving they are in this. I wish my sisters loved me
@meeky04202 жыл бұрын
This was the moment kourtney could’ve saved her own life! He sisters told her to dump Scott year 1.
@thatgirltiatee2 жыл бұрын
He really lost a good and calm and collected woman❤️❤️❤️❤️
@aangeline232 жыл бұрын
Now Scott can go to LA all he wants 😂😂
@nickymolloy4442 жыл бұрын
Its mad to see how different kloe and Scott's relationship is from back then to now. They absolutely hated each other where as now they are obsessed with each other
@Orb-w3aver2 жыл бұрын
this is why you never forgive a cheater, they just use your naivety against you again and again, this guy never changed.
@rubywarner342 жыл бұрын
Fast Forward to 2022. Kourtney is living her best life. While Scott is walking around looking sad & depressed. Oh how the tables turn.
@jamieleahperez2 жыл бұрын
I can’t believe they useto say shes fat. She has such a nice body
@victoriasmith29652 жыл бұрын
Her face tho... you can tell something is up..... she looks completely different than all her sister... the other sisters all have the same hair and features. Khloe doesn't.
@karanaferreira2 жыл бұрын
Khloe : dump him …. Khloe with her cheating man’s : I’ll forgive you. Lmao
@autumnleaves19842 жыл бұрын
3 kids and over a decade later......somethings never change
@feliciaboston63652 жыл бұрын
Their faces keep changing though
@ccalexander19242 жыл бұрын
@@feliciaboston6365 😂
@oliviabroughton94782 жыл бұрын
I wish I could just go on holiday everytime I felt sad 🤣
@lisacatalano8412 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@LOVEAapjes2 жыл бұрын
Scott was such a jerk.
@noemirayas12982 жыл бұрын
Khloe really just said, “I would never let someone treat me like that.” Really? Yet Tash-tain has done this to her how many times?
@kae22752 жыл бұрын
hindsight is 20/20 😭😂
@countrydingess1132 жыл бұрын
I love & miss this Khloe ❤️ who didn’t care what anyone thought about her & was just so out spoken & so f-king cool 😎 Khloe is just a badass💪🏼
@maryault89282 жыл бұрын
I'm glad Kourtney didn't treat Khloe the way the Khloe treated Kourtney I know she was trying to defend her sisters heart but being supportive would be the better choice I agree with Kourtney on that ❤
@bradley10432 жыл бұрын
“Are you gazing in our eyes?” I love them but I hate then
@TheThingsBuy2 жыл бұрын
Love these old episodes
@jamieleahperez2 жыл бұрын
So sad 😢 i know that exact mindless pain. Nothing can distract.
@Craze9612 жыл бұрын
Knowing that was only their first year together and that buffoonery went on for the next 10 years... That's wild.
@jadaimani45102 жыл бұрын
Khole: "I would never let someone treat me like that.." GIRLLL please...
@kayshashas9974 Жыл бұрын
2:40 wth Scott, he’s obviously lying. I’m sure made that up at they very second 😂
@dominicanchu1ita2 жыл бұрын
Kourtney shouldn’t have gone to his house she should have just said we can talk on the phone - I don’t need to go to your house.
@Alexkpz8882 жыл бұрын
That line aged baaaadly, Khloe
@serenaty67862 жыл бұрын
LOOKED INTO EACH OTHERS EYES AS A JOKE WHAT
@carliemcarthur53962 жыл бұрын
Ever think khloe hated Scott so much in the first few seasons because she secretly had feelings for him? Look how inappropriate Scott and khloe act towards each other now 😂🙄
@rajig48522 жыл бұрын
Wow possible… even when her own husband and baby daddy cheated on her 1000 times she was so cool about it . But with Scott she was a monster and these 2 really sexual chemistry
@AlexisFlexis2 жыл бұрын
Y’all sound ridiculous wtf
@Chelsealove3162 жыл бұрын
She’s not attracted to white men
@sreddy9142 жыл бұрын
Scot flirts with her, she's clearly not attracted to him
@BADCATITTUDE2 жыл бұрын
Lol@khloe "I would never let someone treat me like that"
@nolagirl24582 жыл бұрын
When Kim sounded like Paris Hilton 😂
@nunyabiznes39012 жыл бұрын
Looked like her, too! Crazy!
@enjhoktong78682 жыл бұрын
Khloe: I would not let anyone treat me like that. - and how many times has trashtan done this to you?
@TT.31232 жыл бұрын
Oh my freaking goodness Scott looks so young here he literally looks like how Mason looks now 😮 13:08
@mollyc94652 жыл бұрын
Great Minds think alike!
@audrab272 жыл бұрын
This looks like a completly different family
@ramemshageorges63542 жыл бұрын
lol not Kim saying we shouldn't have done this in the background 😭
@nadiahaniff41412 жыл бұрын
Kourtney Kardashian is such a beautiful person.🦋
@aschristieplays2090 Жыл бұрын
Watching this back compared to how their are now just makes me realise that as much as you think you are.... you are not a grown up in your 20's at all.
@catlady31472 жыл бұрын
Khloe: "I just would never let someone treat me like that." LMAO.
@thatgirltiatee2 жыл бұрын
Funny how Koko and Scott became good friends after to this point🤗
@collymaz2 жыл бұрын
Kim”a wish of being followed by the paparazzi came true 😂😂😂😂
@mckaylafinkelstein77532 жыл бұрын
SCOTTS EXCUSE IS SO DUMB HAHAHA I can’t believe she ever got back with him tbh hahahahhaha
@elizabethgift97582 жыл бұрын
Khloe: "I would never let someone treat me like that" Yes because Tristan hadn't reached the Third trimester.
@Kjai5372 жыл бұрын
His excuses are hilarious and she just believes him.
@kristyhawes2 жыл бұрын
They would never leave the premises without security today
@tieriel88702 жыл бұрын
This what happens, no matter how fake you get or are. You will be cheated on.
@bettykwong3369 Жыл бұрын
I’m glad she’s no longer with Scott. But very happy that she’s with Travis. This marriage with her and Travis will last and she deserves happiness with Travis
@louise90642 жыл бұрын
Khloe saying "I would just never let someone treatment like that" 🤣😝🤣😝
@CR-bu9il2 жыл бұрын
Love that Khloe! “Kapeesh?” Lol.
@rebekanekolova19302 жыл бұрын
how tf did scott weasel his way into that family, and managed to stay with kourtney that long... he's the worst
@ResilientWon2 жыл бұрын
The irony of Khole to be that mad about cheating.
@lexiehoule2 жыл бұрын
He for sure cheated. For sure. The defensiveness, saying it was a “joke”, yeah. No.
@sheritamines2 жыл бұрын
kris in the coogi is sending me bad 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@soullooker2 жыл бұрын
I was looking for this comment lol
@sheritamines2 жыл бұрын
@@soullooker 😂😂😂😂
@Ashleymfranklin19902 жыл бұрын
These girls don’t know how to spot red flags
@MLeibs2 жыл бұрын
Good for Courtney. Travis is the real deal. ♥️
@meldais12 жыл бұрын
He really is. I love them together so much.
@Shaniafriend2410 Жыл бұрын
Scott only stayed around because Kourtney was becoming famous ... if it wasn’t for Kourtney he would be unemployed and broke
@JAZZnMOTION2 жыл бұрын
You guys THIS Khloe is not the same… Khloe now has had a failed marriage, has had a child … life changes you
@aichakouy2 жыл бұрын
“I would never let anyone treat me like that” now Khloe
@mariamhadalittlechannel46012 жыл бұрын
Mason looks exactly like Scott here
@Sarahs81786 Жыл бұрын
Watching these is making me so sad and angry like it just proves how any girl, no matter how gorgeous, how strong, how rich, can get manipulated by boys. BOYS not men.
@christinaniehuser44882 жыл бұрын
I love the Classic Kardashian's. Reality Show !!
@franklinmaputla2812 жыл бұрын
I miss this Khloe
@miac23822 жыл бұрын
It's funny because her boyfriends were ch eating then but they only came for Scott 🙄
@number1andnumber42 жыл бұрын
Not Kris in Coogi velour hoodie💀💀..Moms wanna be down so baaad
@thisisntahandle2 жыл бұрын
“Okay, gotta go. Call me when you want to be honest.” 📝
@ashleys.28302 жыл бұрын
Bring back Blackberry phones 😫
@beckygail94542 жыл бұрын
It was classic when khloe said she would never let a guy treat her like that when she herself has been used for a mop.I like Klhoe but I hope she grows takes some of her own advice when it comes to her relationship with Triston.
@CC-zi5fb2 жыл бұрын
Loved this version of Kim. Definitely looks Armenian.
@karenmia66962 жыл бұрын
Crazy how different Kim looks...Doesn't even look like the same fcking person... Kourtney is the only one who looks like shes been aging somewhat naturally, and much more gracefully....