200kg Downforce @ 180kmh | Driving the Thomsen Motorsport Full Aero Formula Vee!

Simon from Thomsen Motorsport was kind enough to lend me his Formula Vee for the day to take it for a drive. I developed the aero kit for this car a few years back, and Simon just recently got around to building it. The kit develops about 200kg at 180km/h, with a minimal drag penalty. The car in general felt awesome, and you could really feel the aero kit at work!
Facebook: / kyleengineers
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[@jakeanderson007]

Hey Kyle. Start a project car already. -sincerely everyone

[@thatcarguy2260]

Well I mean he kinda did, but on steroids: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYGXgahtopibl68

[@michielvanstaden2698]

agreed, a track car this time

[@niccadoodles]

The time may have finally come..

[@KYLEENGINEERS]

Huge thanks to Simon for letting me have a go in his car! If anyone wants to see an extended version of me making a fool of myself I'll be uploading a 360 video of my final session on Kyle.Drives.2 later this week ;) *EDIT* Now live here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2jFfoN3o5ekhNU

[@camberclown]

KYLE.ENGINEERS did you do any modelling on airflow after the car and its effect on drafting? We find a good draft is up to 0.8 seconds and 10kph benefit.

[@KYLEENGINEERS]

While we didn't explicitly model a following car, we did look at the wake behind the car. As the undertray creates a slight upwash, the clean air from outside the car is drawn in, narrowing it's effective wake and making the draft pretty similar to a normal Vee. Some of the drivers from its first race said that it felt exactly the same as drafting a regular Vee and there was no noticable advantage.

[@sebevrazdunebosmrti8459]

When you didn't ask for this collab but it still happens 😀

[@Nick-cm6mn]

Congratulations on the dream job! It was a great ride, and thanks for all the videos you have put out.

[@Left-Foot-Brake]

I think you would be interested in my old Formula Vee. It was designed in a wind tunnel and featured zero roll suspension.....and it was built in 1984!

[@michaelgleeson1198]

Great video Kyle, I drive a 50 kilowatt car so I have some understanding of what you were saying. I think the hardest thing I had to learn was don't always go for brake because I have to rely on momentum to get the best out of the car. Because I don't have brute horsepower to rely on to get the car out a corner.

[@EvanMoon]

Very cool car Kyle, And I’m glad you got to drive it

[@alexanderSydneyOz]

Hi. well, i guess you arent going to score 1 million views, but your information in your vids is really interesting and explained just so clearly, and your attitude and manner are just a pleasure to listen to. well done. cheers.

[@timcuatt1640]

Oh man, I remember trying an old VW bug once. I think those old shifters just laugh at the idea of precision or tightness.

[@stylojp1385]

Would be sweet to see one of these as an assetto corsa mod

[@jdss13]

rfactor 2 with the reiza dlc has this car. Pretty fun and slidey car to drive

[@diamonddog257]

great driving...great car !

[@GoldenSlothRacing]

Awesome must have been very rewarding to take it for a spin. If you ever make it to Adelaide once the aero is done you're welcome to take mine for a few laps ;)

[@MattClare1]

That was great.

[@RAGNES7]

Nice channel!! So, How powerfull does that car feel? compared to a Average Saloon car. How much more power? BTW, new subscriber

[@calummcclintock549]

only has around 50hp but at 200kg, the power to weight is about 250hp/ton

[@KYLEENGINEERS]

Whoops, title was meant to indicate downforce, the car is actually about 500kg, with 64hp, so yeah it's a bit slower in a straight line then your average road car, but much faster around corners!

[@VolV8]

Car and driver is restricted to a minimum of 485kg for 1200cc cars and 500kg for 1600cc car. Air cooled VW engine with a standard 4 speed Volkswagen gearbox, and VW components in front and rear suspension.

[@camberclown]

A good 1600 wigh the new spec engines is low 70s in hp. Cornering speeds are high from mechanical grip. Left hander at barbagallo is same speed as a v8 supercar.

[@lucaspanu533]

hey kyle, i like the effort you put into developing the undertray for that car. How many iterations did it take you to design that undertray? And would you like to upload a few cfd pictures of it?

[@TonyK3130]

Undertray appeared to be flexing in parts of the video with rear facing camera. Does that cost any performance?

[@ttkiwis6980]

I'm curious. Have you calculated that downforce figure as a "theorectical" or have you managed to measure it accurately?

[@yashvardhansalgaocar4770]

Can someone explain the purpose of the horizontal strakes/dividers on two of the tunnels of the diffuser? They split the tunnel into a sort of grid. Also, how are you running such high angles on the side diffusers (between the front and rear wheel) without flow separation?

[@Big2009Gee]

Should be close to making it's own weight in downforce at 270kph

[@groomlake51]

Lol rules are ALWAYS open to interpretation 🤣🤣🤣I don’t like to break rules just work around them Lol

[@michaelslack5269]

Right!

[@mattiapresti7295]

In what other channel we could see the testdrive of the only Formula Vee wingcar?

[@millerchassis6119]

can you feel the aero change as the under tray flaps around?

[@GTFour]

What do you use for the data logging?

[@groomlake51]

It’s a Air cooled VW? Fouling plugs below 2000? We can fix that. Is he running dual Webber’s ? What kind of carb. Sound like it’s too big . I like to call it the toilet bowl effect ! Bigger is not better when talking about intake tracks . And if you can get line of sight from the carb Venturi to the intake valve it greatly helps VE. Efi is great and all but it’s a good argument that you can make more power with a carb properly set up than you can with efi. I really like watching your vids because it helps me with under standing intake charge resonance !!! I would love to see you speak to the effects of port velocity . Even in forced induction engines intake charge air characteristics are key to volumetric efficiency. Over hear in the USA we are so crude and there’s a lot of theory and not much data on intake designs . For your buddy’s engine .... a telescoping velocity stack ran off a vacuum diaphragm might help keep intake port velocity up at lower rpm thus keeping the charge properly atomized . What the cam profile, cid, and carb size? I would be happy to help optimize .

[@KYLEENGINEERS]

I'm not sure about the specifics of the engine but I believe a lot of the components are spec for the series, I'll see if Simon can comment.

[@karlosss1868]

Its a controlled formula. Std carby (you can change jets), Controlled cam. Even has a restrictor plate to limit the airflow through from the carby into the engine. No efi yet in this formula in Australia.

[@thomsenmotorsport7201]

Yep, pretty much what Karlosss said, very little can be done in this series. Admittedly I had it running rich though on this day.

[@camberclown]

ThomsenMotorsport you need to get the electric idle jet...... we dont foul at low revs.

[@acidocloridrico7683]

Groom Lake h

[@Realoony]

Which is the most aerodynamic, a beer belly or a six pack abs?

[@saman-iw9tx]

Beer belly

[@lewis37]

oh wow i forgot about the drought but that track is yellow

[@jogb9515]

Two driver comparison, three images, no explanation. I feel this is a test I failed.

[@Okipouros]

I think you apex too early. also, you deserve more subscribers :)

[@the-real-zpero]

Pretty impressive for 64 HP and 500 kg. Now drop a turbocharged literbike engine in it and get some wings and some wide slicks :D

[@SparkysAdventure]

Imagine that with a rotary engine.

[@kwakhru435]

What about wings?

[@user-pg2zc4oi6r]

Not needed

[@mlcollingwood]

I'll toss you the keys to mine when it is finished :)

[@KYLEENGINEERS]

Don't be silly, project cars are never finished! ;)

[@mlcollingwood]

I was going to say that your racing suit matched your beard :)

[@nickamarit]

why's the shifter not on the left?

[@thomsenmotorsport7201]

The gearbox is larger on the left than it is on the right so it's much easier to get the linkage from the cockpit to the rear.

[@nickamarit]

ThomsenMotorsport I see. Cuz I thought that being in Australia, a RHD car, with the shifter on the left, would be more natural, but it seems there are more things to consider when designing.

[@thomsenmotorsport7201]

Surprisingly it's not something you notice, I remember adapting without even noticing the first time I jumped in a Vee. Having said that, I found it very difficult driving a left hand drive car in Europe, even having driven the Vee before.

[@cliffordbradford8910]

Most single seat race cars I've seen (Indy Car, F1, etc) have had the shifter on the right. Of course most nowadays is irrelevant. Running shifter linkages can be a huge PITA as you always leave it until last. Nowadays you've got 3-D CAD (not to mention semi-auto gearboxes) but I reckon back in the day it was string and broom handles for mockups

[@Yarrow54]

The underbody looks to be moving about a fair bit and looks like in a number of places it's held on by cable ties. He needs to do a better job of fixing it to release the full potential of your design work...

[@mickstodd7118]

Mis shifting is a bitch, especially when it's from slop. Too tight of tolerances can cause the same thing which is even more annoying. I'd rather have it sloppy than too tight (only time I'd ever say that).

[@brandonlewis2599]

If you're ever heading to California, give me a head's up and I can put you in the SRF. And you can comment about how awful the aero is on that car, but basically it doesn't matter because the S stands for Spec.

[@joe125ful]

Looks like someone make this in garage:)

[@sursomsatan1225]

Looks like a lot of fun, but low rev engines are so incredibly boring.

[@RyanHellyer]

Such a strange car.