Labour wants legal advice to unwind charter schools | Q+A 2024

[@MatthewGriffiths]

This woman has no idea. Why is she still in the role? Shocking to watch!

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

Yes, bloody hopeless.Tiniti, another ideolog with alot to say.No substance.

[@alvinlee55]

It's sad that she was a minister

[@Detached_Contemplation]

The Labour Party is just the parliamentary wing of the NZEI & PPTA.

[@shaneshawwilliams4512]

Are you a teacher ? It is you that has no idea ...listen and learn

[@Enterthetaniwha]

@@shaneshawwilliams4512 100% she knows her stuff and proved it despite Jack interupting her all the time

[@Laodage23]

Anyone asking how teachers can spend 4 years at university and tens of thousands of dollars in student fees to learn how to teach and they don’t know how to teach the basics like maths???

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

Yes, a huge joke.The blind leading the blind.No wonder NZ education is in the toilet.Run by ideologues.

[@bangarang3810]

Forget can't teach, half can't pass level 1 lol yet these mfers striking for more money

[@adsdft585]

At what level do you need to know NECA 2 to teach years 1 to 8?

[@adsdft585]

Principals of schools don't know the details of ministers' thinking. So what is the current minister actually personal knowledge of area?

[@adsdft585]

Currently, the MOE has lots of reach about up dating methods of teaching. The Northland principal pointed out that in the past, experts on a subject were funded, so every teacher had support in each primary school. Why did this get removed prior to 2017?

[@jacksonfowler5032]

What an absolute car crash of an interview. This woman is as thick as two planks.

[@markcox8762]

Thank goodness this woman is no longer education minister. She's an apologist for failure.

[@adsdft585]

Tomorrow's schools was about independence for each school board. Since 1987 the MOE has been more prescriptive and so it has taken choice away from the independence which ACT/National say Charter schools can have. So why is government not giving government schools more independence?

[@kevin5073]

Independence to do what?

[@SarahHarris-hx6ec]

I absolutely support the structured approach to maths. Thanks National. I do agree a good whole language teacher always used structured literacy.

[@sandypike2431]

You expressed it clearly 'a GOOD whole language teacher'. The problem was there were too few of them and it required a thorough knowledge of structured language principles to underpin their expertise.

[@tanepukenga1421]

What exactly IS structured math?

[@morri03]

It’s like watching an episode of Utopia.

[@888Sooty]

How absurd Hipkins and Tinetti destroyed NZ education and we have innumerate primary school teachers and she is more interested in protecting the unions that being interested in innovative ideas

[@siosi5735]

Waste the time as a parent of 6 don't matter what school you send your kids too they will succeed depending on how you raise your them. strong family values etc etc.....

[@W_Bin]

I taught a kid to read in 2 weeks, who thought she was dyslexic. I taught my son to spell and multiply. I am not a teacher. If they can't do the job I did, they are not fit for the job. It's not only the kids who need to be tested, but the teachers and the administration.

[@growtocycle6992]

Try teaching a class of 30 students, where 5 have never been raised with any form of discipline, and tell me how easy it is.

[@barneyboy2008]

You had 2 kids 1 at a time. Now try 30 at once genius.

[@W_Bin]

@@barneyboy2008 If you can't do the job don't ask for the pay.

[@bdub884]

Even the smartest kid in the world can't learn to read in 2 weeks, the kid probably already had learnt you just refreshed their memory. This arrogant way of thinking is why NZ parenting is so poor.

[@W_Bin]

@@bdub884 if a bot says it, it must be true.

[@eoinc9511]

Perhaps the youth of New Zealand watching successive political parties completely fudge their own numbers is leading to a lower interest and comprehension of mathematics?

[@kiwikiwi223]

Last time charter schools were in national was providing 6x more funding per students in charter schools compared to public school students. 9000 for public and 54000 for charter schools. David never mentions this when talking about better statistics coming from charters

[@jjjordan7878]

true!

[@barneyboy2008]

He's a little weasel.

[@DanShirley-o9x]

Whatever labour did for six years didn't work so why bash national for trying to solve the issues you created?

[@89hatters]

Every 15 year old failing now start school under National and their policies. This is a direct result of National ideology.

[@kevin5073]

Because most of the problems are a hang-over from the previous Key government.

[@89hatters]

@@DanShirley-o9x 15 yr olds failing today are a direct result of National policies.

[@chriskiwi2601]

Absolutely, give this coalition a chance.

[@AnthonyFlack]

@@chriskiwi2601 - why, is there something they haven't wrecked yet? What?

[@christopherwalton1373]

That was a lot of doublespeak and obfuscation. Private profit in education or unions looking after their members ahead of children? Let it run and judge them on their results for kids! That’s what the unions are worried about that charter schools will show how poorly their teachers are doing?

[@kevin5073]

"unions looking after their members ahead of children". What does that even mean?

[@markcox8762]

What is wrong with profit? Our schools are currently non-profit, and how well is that working?

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

@@kevin5073 You are blind to the truth.Of course ,if you are a Labour supporter, you would think that.Too many ideologs running education.Especially the Ministry of Education.

[@kevin5073]

@@markcox8762 no problem with that but pay for it yourself and stop expecting taxpayers to bankroll it.

[@craybro]

@@kevin5073Teacher unions in NZ have a long track record of stopping any initiative that would measure teacher performance, let alone reward high achievers or move on poor performers. I’ve worked inside the Ministry of Education and saw it happen many times. That’s just one example of what it means

[@tearikimana8098]

Keep this lady on. She is so clued up

[@overover..]

What an absolute train wreck. Great interviewing Jack

[@humanwithaplaylist]

Jack has fallen for right wing propaganda unfortunately

[@overover..]

​@humanwithaplaylist All he did here was point out that the emperor is naked. Look a little closer yourself and you might notice the same...

[@alexrees7652]

@@humanwithaplaylist @humanwithaplaylist - it is hilarious that in any interview where jack is taking to someone of the right, he is accused of being a left leaning apologist. As soon as he interviews someone of the left, you say he has fallen for the right wing…. Maybe he is a quality journalist who interrogates his interviewees with a modicum of rigour?

[@mattheweden-pc5pk]

She was a bad minster so how can we believe her, she’s a lair

[@mattheweden-pc5pk]

Parents have to take responsibility for their children, she’s delusional

[@fleurosea]

Maybe schools aren’t failing children, we are. Many many parents in NZ are stressed, struggling with money and the cost of living, unavailable for our kids. Teachers are underpaid and under valued, constantly being given the run around by successive governments so they give up. The failure is the whole system, imagine if we made children and wellbeing the center of our goals as a country, instead of just hoping wellbeing will trickle down from the increasingly less money circulating in our economy. Find the right problem before trying to solve it.

[@tanepukenga1421]

There's a reason they streamed off shore and none of this is helping or stopping it. It's useless political grandstanding when we SHOULD be listening to the teachers in the profession and the people who study them and the outcomes.

[@NDM_NZ]

Anyone else think that its amazing in the year 2024 we still haven't figured out how or what to teach children? Round and round in circles just like everything else. Its almost like politics is a pantomime.

[@michaelstanley8209]

If use the labor’s timeline a whole generation would have missed out. Well done national for moving and not wasting another moment

[@tanepukenga1421]

You're gullible to think that 80% of nz kids were held back a year. Where are they all?

[@annahouston9528]

How about we let the teachers decide what is best! Can you imagine politicians deciding how surgery is done!

[@Bigwet11]

The surgeon has almost killed the patient, time to get a second opinion.

[@adventure_unlimited]

The issue is we dont pay for quality, many of the teachers are a bit brainwashed ... they dont have a highschool level maths in many cases and its not there focus of learning.

[@annahouston9528]

@@adventure_unlimited We have many great teachers, I know quite a few and they are well educated, they have to be to get into any schools that I know of. what schools have teachers you speak of?

[@annemackay-ib4gy]

Oh please labour is not in power thank god, so labour is the last place anyone should go to fir any opinion

[@humanwithaplaylist]

If you truly wanted positive change you would vote green and or TPM not further right or for labour. kzbin.info/aero/PLDGgx5xDVBylwy4F1ftFr5uvgjPOIjOaN

[@tanepukenga1421]

So you're enjoying bankrupt hospitals and our cops streaming off shore? The rest of us aren't. There's a reason why teachers oppose the changes

[@anne-mareeosborne8718]

Time we had the right system and it was left alone

[@ooo-vc4xl]

NZ ranked near the top of PISA maths scores in 2000, ranking 3rd out of 32 countries. NZ slid to 27th out of 78 countries in 2018 and is 23rd out of 81 countries in 2022.

[@kevin5073]

So what has changed to bring that about?

[@MrDaragom]

Jan Tinetti is absolutely ridiculous.

[@alvinlee55]

I find it amazing that she doesn't understand the word structured. I'm not highly educated, but I understand it's about teaching basic math. People shouldn't leave school not being able to count cash in a till.

[@89hatters]

​@@alvinlee55When did you last put cash in a till? Children today have a whole different skill set than when you and I went to school. Every child has a computer in their pocket.

[@josephl9619]

​​@@89hattersi think you missed his point.

[@89hatters]

@@josephl9619 nope, his point was things were better in his day, but his day is past. Technology has made basic maths irrelevant, I go straight to my calculater. We have learnt children learn at different levels in all subjects, some pick things up some struggle. To demand children hit an ideological target is ridiculous. National haven't released what they consider structured, hence the questions around it.

[@josephl9619]

@@89hatters to quote : school Mathematics provides an effective way of building mental discipline and encourages logical reasoning and mental rigor. In addition, mathematical knowledge plays a crucial role in understanding the contents of other school subjects such as science, social studies, and even music and art. A cell phone isnt a substitute for everything

[@ThePhilcam]

Seriously Labour you added 3500 ministry staff and went backwards, you should be trying anything to get education back on track. Both parties missing the real issue, teacher training, primary teacher training needs to be a 3 year degree program not a 1 year add on to a degree in tiddlywinks. We had teachers colleges that nurtured world leading teachers in the 70s and 80s.

[@TheFalconerNZ]

Charter Schools will get better results because the only people that can afford them can send their kids. High income families are (by in general) better educated so their kids will be better educated & can afford the additional cost of hiring better qualified teachers. This will led the best teachers going to the charter schools & public sector schools getting the teachers the charter school don't want. Charter schools will end up being more & more expensive as they start attracting more & more applications due to having the best teachers than their ability to teach making good education only available to the rich. Look at American Charter schools & Universities, tuitions fees are going up at 3 to 10 times the rate of inflations.

[@sandypike2431]

Special character schools are an example of 'charter schools' . The subsidized fees are do-able for working families who plan their financial priorities. We worked out that for the price of our coffee fix every day we could afford the fees!

[@gary3074]

You know there’s already private schools right? And that hasn’t happened….

[@PikachooUpYou]

Love her pushing back. Great.

[@alvinlee55]

There is no time to pull out a calculator. Mental arithmetic is timeless. It's easy to teach and it's easy to learn. There is no difference between my age and someone 40 years younger. The simple sums are still the same.

[@shaneshawwilliams4512]

She is authentic

[@adventure_unlimited]

My kids have done school in Japan, Australia and NZ, last year. They are enrolled in school in Australia now while also in doing NZ school online. NZ school is probably 2 years behind. I don't even see an NZ curriculum. Its pretty simile. The NZ teachers do not have the ability. They also dont even have a curriculum I can follow. The teachers are not going to like it but NZ school is mostly playtime. The kids learn if the parents put in the time. If they dont ... then the kids just dont learn.

[@greybuckleton]

She wants to "spend years" getting it right. Well we have a bunch of failed graduates by then. I'm not so willing to do nothing while the current high school leavers fail.

[@odysseydesignandmarketing8091]

Wow what a train wreck. Isn't it ironic that when you continue to lower the bar of achievement standards so eventually everyone jumps over it. The level of knowledge competency drops with it. It is an embarrassment that educational achievement has dropped so low and national disgrace that Labour and their union mates are saying everything is fine.

[@tanepukenga1421]

They weren't. You're utterly gullible if you think kids passed last year, but not the year before and still magically found the method. Otherwise, where's all the ones who failed?

[@loubliss7471]

Didn't Year 8 Kids start school under National, and National changed the Maths and English cirriculum back then.

[@kevin5073]

Yes they did.

[@odysseydesignandmarketing8091]

What a straw man argument. These year 8 12-13 year olds have at worst spent 2 years under the previous national govt but 6 years under a Labour one. So if you want to start pointing fingers there is only one direction it needs to be pointed at...start with the colour red.

[@kevin5073]

@@odysseydesignandmarketing8091 what year did the curriculum changes come into effect?

[@loubliss7471]

@@odysseydesignandmarketing8091 curriculum changed while these now year 8 students were just starting school under National it's been the same cirriculum up until the new changes were due to come in to effect but National cancelled them and put their own in again, so the kids failing now were taught under the National government's curriculum changes.

[@loubliss7471]

@@kevin5073 2011-2012 the kids that are in year 8 now

[@firstkings99]

Maths should be acultural.

[@robertmariu6783]

I have yet to see comprehensive evidence charter schools are a better system. It works in Singapore because of societal expectations . I'm Maori and see lax societal discipline towards education. I was taught at a catholic school that had untrained teachers who constantly blamed us for a low school performance .

[@overover..]

@robertmariu6783 Well I suspect over the next 12 years the current govt will have a great chance to provide that evidence

[@captainwheelbarrow649]

Yes Asian parents are the most important factor in student performance

[@overover..]

@@captainwheelbarrow649 Haha!

[@Bigwet11]

Have you seen the results from Maori at previous charter schools? Far exceeded state school performance.

[@ianandrews6890]

Exactly ! The government is trying to change the low "societal expectations" inherited from the previous administration

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

Education has now become political.

[@eoinc9511]

Education has always been political, sounds more like it’s you who have become political. Welcome!

[@tanepukenga1421]

With your support, Shirley. You've been extremely vocal about how politicized you wanted it to be. You got your wish. Just like with hospitals and cops, and the whole country suffers for it

[@monda111111]

Jack did a good job in this interview

[@JohanThiart]

You quoted the Stanford study to support your position on Charter Schools! Then Jack challenges you and you disparage the one study that you quoted …… for real!😢

[@avoontoastmakingsenseofnzs7724]

I managed to find the Stanford study Jack referred to. Does anyone have a link to the evidence Jan Tinetti referred to, or to the disproving of Stanford study (couldn't find any yet)?

[@AtCheruti]

But really studies don't matter whether they simply confirm what everybody knows that people, including students, need to be challenged to be happy and thrive -or worse- studies that deny what everybody knows.

[@kevin5073]

If you google Standford CREDO review it is literally the first link that comes up. You cant have looked very hard.

[@avoontoastmakingsenseofnzs7724]

@@AtCheruti I disagree as studies/science help us go beyond common sense. They are useful, even if they confirm what we think we know about the world. There are million reasons why charter schools could be better, or worse, than more traditional types of schooling

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

Jan Tiniti, another ideolog .She is still swinging after the bell has stopped. Can't she still understand one of the reasons why Labour got voted out.

[@growtocycle6992]

I was not a fan of national, but her education policies were running our young people into the ground... I agree with you

[@__Lachie]

Just like all of the ideologs in this current government 🤷‍♂️

[@tanepukenga1421]

@@growtocycle6992 Only if you are silly enough to believe National over the numbers. If less than 10 out of every class of 30 passed, where's the tens of thousands who failed and were held back a year? Oh, another thing Jan said (and anyone with common sense) is what exactly IS "structured math" and how does it differ from regular mathematics. But if we ignore reality, that's fine and we can swallow whatever National tells us. Like last time when Hekia Parata got over 10 mentally disabled girls raped - despite everyone BUT national warning them

[@ideaWorld403]

Good grief. This was a pai ful interview to get through; with this lady at the helm of our education system for the last few years it is no wonder its in such a state! And did i hear her correctly??... that maths was deprioritised in order to change it to suit the cultural needs (whatever that means!) of maori and pacific students?? So maths was deprioritised in a quest to benefit just a small proportion of learners, but didnt relace it with anything of value for said student's, whereby effectively distrupting maths for all learners. Maths does not have a cultural lense. Numbers are numbers, patterns are patterns, theories are theories. I hope Maori and Pacifica parents are listening to the lunacy coming out of this Lady's mouth and coming to the same conclusion as me- that lavour were in fact out of their depth, with whacky ideas, which they syatematically used to harm the students of nz.

[@JamesChristie-o2e]

If it needed confirming ….thanks Jan Labour and you need to stay away from being in power for the sake of our well being

[@TheMarathonomahos]

One of the main arguments against performance pay for teachers is that all children learn differently, and that its impossible to compare one childs learning style to the next. Then when it comes to the argument against Charter schools, it's that this teaching style doesn't work. No when Shirley Boys High School introduced open plan classrooms, it failed, so they got rid of it. But there are still schools introducing it now. I don't think teachers unions or Labour know what the hell they are talking about.

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

Jan, time you retired.

[@tanepukenga1421]

Just because you don't like her bringing evidence to your anecdotes, doesn't change reality. Sticking your head in the sand never worked, same as trying to pretend that less than 10 kids are passing math each year doesn't make it true

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

@@tanepukenga1421 Look at the facts.Under Labour, education was going backwards.Alot of kids can't add,cant spell,can't read,cant write. In 10 to twenty years the nation will pay for this.They will have low paid jobs and they will wonder why ?Learning Maori is a waste of time.Its certainly not used in the business world.

[@tanepukenga1421]

​@@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj Only if you completely discount covid, which was rectified by last year. The fact you believed that drivel without asking where they all are, or why 80% of your kids school, or the local one, haven't been held back shows how gullible you are. Common sense would have you ask where's these tens of thousands of kids. Or how'd they pass year 9 if they all failed (but that'd require work on your part of actually looking it up) to be in year 10 this year. Look at the facts, lady. Even if they don't follow your political tribalism. Or SHOCK! HORROR! Try asking a teacher.

[@tanepukenga1421]

@@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj You obviously haven't spoken to children in a long time. No one in my kids class failed, 4 had difficulty with reading and still improved enough to pass. Not one kid in any of my nieces classes failed and when I asked my ex's family, brother, sisters and parents all teachers, collectively they had 2 fail their classes. You were being lied to and swallowed it like a load from trump. STILL waiting for you to say where these tens of thousands of mystery children are... I don't think you'll ever answer

[@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj]

@@tanepukenga1421 I think its Jan Tiniti thats sticking her head in the sand.Look at the mess the Labour government left education in.Jan Tiniti spoke only about ideology with education rapidly going downhill at a rate of knots.Look at the facts.

[@IanRobinson-y4o]

This woman is a joke! 6 years of watching standards collapse around them and now they are "O" so full of good ideas. If they fluked a third term do you really think anything would have changed from lowering the bar to make the system look like its worth something. Just get out of the way.

[@codex156]

Well her system didn't work, we are failing our kids. Time for something new which is why we elected National

[@captainwheelbarrow649]

So they removed maths as a specified priority because "they needed to put that cultural dimension into the teaching of maths." What does that even mean? Why do both labor and national always have wrong solutions to our problems? Its not that hard: hire a lot more teachers to get class sizes down, and make sure the teachers know their subjects and how to teach them. Make the teachers colleges independent from the ideology driven university education faculties and give the trainees allowances like they used to. Also stop treating Maori and Pacific people like they are special needs. Acting like they won't be interested or can't understand maths unless you make it "culturally relevant" is just patronising.

[@victorlo168]

Based my life long experiences, I am seeing all advanced countries are well focused on Mathematics Educationally as the Mathematics have changed all Science, Technology, Engineering as well as Social Sciences rom evolutions to revolutions, I am happy to seeing our current government leaders have identified the way to recovering New Zealand’s Economy to take actions with strategy to the goals then any parties or political leaders should provided their viable suggestions for the collaboratively enhancement of New Zealand’s Economy for a futuristic wealthy instead of trying for against the new plan to against , every party are the citizen of New Zealand and should trying together to build our lovely country together ( Voiced from a retirement chartered engineer)

[@PinkSpot420]

Just look at the schooling In America Over the Last 6 Yrs Charter Schools Are By Far Most Dominant. Public School Needs To start Teaching More than Just math's it should Be things such as investments, Interest, Banking, taxes, Life Guiding Specific Learning Is something That is a Foundation Stepping Stone I Know Many People Have had Issues Not Knowing These Things when Leaving School.

[@sandypike2431]

Wow, well done Jack Tame. You picked up on the holes in her arguements. One minute overseas have done great research, have a successful curriculum and programmes but we in nz must 'invent' the wheel again to come up with our own special, ground breaking 'wheel'. This is the problem we have - for so long we have allowed ideology and arrogance to cloud our judgement. The special needs of Maori are used again and again to support a false notion that children's learning is different in nz because of their ethnicity/race. "We have the most devolved system in the world," she boldy claims but according to this minister the schools need to have a centralised structure for collaboration - but not programmes off the shelf, what is she saying? 21:26 Too many contradictory statements to comment further at this stage, but suffice it to say this minister's presentation of her educational philosophy and its outworking for schools, learners and education shows why we need clarity and structure to be reintroduced as soon as possible if our children are to meet with learning success and have future opportunities in our globalised, multicultural world.

[@captainwheelbarrow649]

Yes our education doesn't emphasize universals enough. Maths is supposed to be a universal language. NZ history is only a recent chapter in world history and can't be understood without an understanding of world history.

[@tgb389]

I think Jack just interviewed a pair of flip-flops

[@mattzhewtait6532]

I don't know if charter schools are the answer but the government having a monopoly on education has been a backslide for decades now. Disestablishing charter schools again would show that labour is just a slave of the teachers union who will bear no rival. Children's education is literally the last thing on their mind.

[@barneyboy2008]

Charter schools use untrained teachers. How is that going to help?

[@jiminverness]

Make mathematics a top priority at high schools and provide *higher pay* for qualified mathematics teachers (ie qualified in maths and teaching maths) to attract those who understand maths and can actually teach it well. p.s. ditch "culture cr@p" completely.

[@davidcurle7381]

Jack do you ever have any positive things to say? So negative on every subject.

[@adsdft585]

You can see that at Canterbury University there are different opinions about teaching to read methods. The current minister is picking one idea over the other.

[@josephl9619]

What is the 'cultural side of maths'? Please explain

[@jjjordan7878]

She did not say the "cultural side of maths." Tinetti was highlighting how she made it a priority for teachers to teach in a way that is culturally sensitive. This is an across the board skill. Teachers teaching in a way that is culturally sensitive in EVERY subject, and in their general role as teachers. This essentially means respecting that students come into their teachers classrooms have probably learnt different rules at home and respecting that it is probably best to make content more relevant to students whereever possible so they actually engage with it.

[@josephl9619]

@@jjjordan7878 and how does that relate to maths? genuine question. What does that mean in practice?

[@jjjordan7878]

@@josephl9619 fair question. It relates to maths in the same way that other "general skills" would. Other skills that teachers have are: patience, conflict resolution abilities, communication, empathy and leadership. Cultural sensitivity is in the same domain as these other skills. These skills are deployed (or are ready to be deployed) at any time during a lesson, and it is part of the "Art of Teaching." Knowing the stuff (e.g. having maths knowledge) is only one part of teaching, the other part of teaching is successfully educating your students, which requires the general skills that I listed.

[@josephl9619]

@@jjjordan7878 yes, but what is it in practice. Please give me some examples with regards to teaching math.

[@jjjordan7878]

@@josephl9619 sure! Maths is taught in familiar contexts so that children can draw on information that they learn at home/out of school. Ako Journal had a good description of how this is practically applied: "Examples from the lives of whānau and families of all ethnicities are collected to help teachers appreciate the mathematical activity of the different ethnic groups and create problems relevant to the home lives of the tamariki/children"

[@salaadin]

Key takeaway from this interview - don't place your kids education in the hands of the government. Its always one stuff-up away from being FUBAR.

[@chrisheaton9078]

There's no way I'll ever vote labor while they still have people like Jan there. She had six years, what did she achieve??? Labor need Kieran as leader and get rid dead wood.

[@pointlinesquare]

Political tinkering with schooling is counterproductive. Injecting Darwinian competition between traditional and charter schools with the notion that charter schools will stumble onto a "better way"... please. Make sure kids are safe, fed, well paid teachers low turnover with manageable class sizes let em get on with their work.

[@dossnone4554]

Labour has no option. All political parties seem to have paymasters. The teachers union is one of labour's biggest. They will have no choice but to do their utmost to get rid of them again. Why will the US schools never have a teachers shortage, a maths teacher shortage, or a male teacher shortage? They are not required to have a teaching qualification. A hard science Masters qualified mate of mine, teaches math between overseas contracts. Many highly qualified Americans teach for a part of their working life without a teaching qualification. And, of course, they don't need to be members of a teachers union.

[@pissedoffpoliticsnzlol]

Can you let her finish her answer before interjecting and swaying what she's trying to say or mean? You're becoming quite the Piers Morgan and it's not a good look, bro.

[@macunion1225]

does she think maori and pacifica kids arent as smart as other kids ? if they put in the same work they will get the same results as every other race

[@jjjordan7878]

Jan didn't do well in this interview. Charter schools typically do better in studies overseas compared to public schools because the kids that go to them tend to be in richer families (who tend to do better in any school). The evidence supporting NZ charter schools is inconsistent. Education should be the great equalizer, every kid entering adulthood should leave school with the same basic knowledge so that, at a societal level, we can have faith that every adult meets certain minimum expectations and can function/thrive in society.

[@markcox8762]

What evidence are you referring to? Labour shut them down - purely for doctrinaire reasons -before they were evaluated.

[@jjjordan7878]

@@markcox8762 that is not true. The first Charter Schools opened in 2014, Labour ended the program in 2018, and were monitored for their performance by the PSAB and the Education Review Office. An independent review by MartinJenkins was done in 2016; who determined that while most were almost meeting or exceeding expectations for student achievement, there were 3 out of the 8 that did not meet expectations. Thats why I say it is mixed; there are good schools and bad schools. One really bad Charter school was Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru (google that 2014 controversy) The real question is whether all of this investment actually leads to better outcomes than public schools. Sadly noone has bothered to do that in NZ yet so we have to go off of overseas research which suggests that they aren't better than public schools.

[@jjjordan7878]

@@markcox8762 The first charter schools were around in Term 1 2014, Labour only abolished charter schools in 2018 with the existing charter schools (most still running till today by the way) just called "special character" schools. They were monitored for performance by the Education Review Office and the PSAB, and you can find a few of their reports (some are really positive!) An independent report by MartinJenkins in 2016 saw that while most almost met or exceeded expectations, 3 out of the 8 weren't meeting expectations for student achievement. So that's why I say it is mixed in NZ. There are good schools and bad schools (for a bad charter school check out: Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru 2014). The real question is whether it is worth it? No cost-benefit analysis has been done comparing them to public schools. Overseas, the evidence seems to lead in the direction that there is no real difference (especially when you factor in wealthy areas) and ultimately, new policies lead to funding blowouts ($888,000 over budget in one year last time) and all the charter schools combined last time had yearly enrolled numbers of like less than 3,000 students. The best thing that they could do is actually do a proper review of how it went last time to save us flip flopping every time the government changes.

[@sandypike2431]

You sank your own boat - negated your arguement, when you said education should be the great equalizer and spoke of a minimum standard as being the goal.

[@jjjordan7878]

@@markcox8762 for some reason my reply keeps getting deleted. Na Labour converted charter schools into special character ones in 2018, they started in 2014 and ran until then. I said mixed as there are good and bad schools; you can look up ERO reviews of schools (Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru is one of the bad ones). MartinJenkins released an independent review in 2016 which said that 3 out of 8 weren't meeting expectations for student achievement (the rest either almost meeting or exceeding). We need a proper review to see if it's worth the huge amount of money ($50,000ish per student compared with $8,000 per student in public schools)

[@BamBam-uf4yi]

Maths is easy but I have noticed a lot of kids have problems with it. I have tried teaching my nieces and nephews but they just don't get it and I end up doing there homework for them I have given up trying as the school's should be solving this problem.

[@growtocycle6992]

Please, don't do you children's homework for them. If they don't understand, they need to let their teacher know they don't know how, not pretend they understand and get you to do it You are undermining their education.

[@BamBam-uf4yi]

@@growtocycle6992 As far as I'm concerned it's stuff they'll most probably never use as they're working in field's that this type of math is not required.

[@morgan_kemp]

Long may Erica Stanford be the Education Minister if this is the alternative!

[@neilking6909]

What a total waste of space Tinetti is , why even interview her?? what a total pillock!

[@tanepukenga1421]

Well she pointed out you were gullible enough to actually swallow that 80% of year 8 students, now year 10 in high school, failed maths. You SHOULD have used your brain and asked "Where's the ten's of thousands of kids who failed?" And if you couldn't do that, you should've asked, "then how did they pass year 9 to BE in year 10 now if they couldn't pass year 8 math? Where did the skills come from? Magic?" Ya know, common sense

[@seanheagen356]

She used to be my primary school principal.

[@DW_Kiwi]

She relies on "experts" It just common sense. Isn't it!!

[@Tantium]

this lady is a joker

[@occiputslave2145]

nail polish like a 5 year old

[@saregama-r8td]

The irony she accuses the other side of bringing in an ideological model. I like that Jack is giving her a hard time. Labour wake up! You lost a lot of the voting base as a direct result of your ideological policies. Duh.

[@tanepukenga1421]

It is literally a failed model NZ has already tried and resulted in 10's of thousands without quality education. And yes, they lost. And what did you win us? Losing our police to australia. Losing our nurses to the UK. Losing our teachers to everywhere else. Congrats, you got your way. Hope you're in love with our now bankrupt medical system, the now re-rising rents and as of right now, at least 1500 extra homeless

[@daha8805]

Just copy Singapore. Use their texbooks and teaching methods. Use Khan academy or other online platforms. Teach kids their basic facts from memory in year 1 and 2, through chants and songs. They will figure out the "why" and "how" soon enough. Copy the best in the world. Use what's already available. If u need to run a junior football academy, duplicate Barcelona's. If u need skill drills for your U12 rugby team, find out what the All Blacks do and copy. Wana bake a cake? Follow a delicious recipe!

[@vitaliigalkin7400]

She repeat the same labour idea “let’s hire another consultant, wait for 6 years, spend millions of dollars and do nothing”

[@chriskiwi2601]

You onto it.

[@tanepukenga1421]

Where was that? Your lying got in the way of me hearing it

[@vitaliigalkin7400]

@@tanepukenga1421 Auckland light rail. They spent $228 million dollars and did not build anything in six years.

[@tanepukenga1421]

@@vitaliigalkin7400 So they never said what you claimed? In other words: You lied again

[@wakamitchell8791]

We never had this problem when I grew up because you guys are full of rubbish

[@petertrott5107]

I back the Coalition Government (National, Act and NZ First) 💯% for the rest of my life. This is how bad labour, green and maori party were in my opinion, we still hear the verbal rubbish coming from their mouths. We all must be free to call our country New Zealand, to wave the New Zealand flag🇳🇿🖤🇳🇿 and to speak English. It's become clear some media, government departments and education institutions are forced to speak another language they don't want to. This is weird social engineering or something. The Maori people will have to spend millions on their crime, their meth, weed and alcohol addiction and their image and their children to get them to go to school.

[@89hatters]

You have such a victim mentality. Who or what is stopping you from speaking English or waving a flag? What exactly are you losing?

[@barneyboy2008]

Racist twaddle.

[@mcgruff3309]

Charter Schools just means private non union schools!

[@IanRobinson-y4o]

What a good Idea👍

[@kevin5073]

Whats a 'union' school?

[@Bigwet11]

@@kevin5073 An expensive failure.

[@barneyboy2008]

Means unqualified cheap teachers.

[@SpatialandTemporal]

@@barneyboy2008 Well, at the moment schools are hiring expensive, well qualified teachers that are failing children, so probably could not be much worse. They have little accountability and cannot be fired even if they are useless, as the Union will back them up. The better ones cannot be paid more than the poor ones providing no incentive to perform. Charter schools will be able to remove underperforming teachers much more easily and in fact are much less likely to hire them in the first place. I'm guessing Charter Schools will snap up the best teachers, probably pay them more and get better results.

[@alvinlee55]

On Friday

[@liamtimothystirling1635]

take away calculators , theyd be 80th

[@pinkpinkpink32]

Has Labour forgotten they lost the election? Get off the grass, Labour. We, the people, rejected you!

[@geecee1288]

Omg she was in charge of Education, she talks in ridiculous circles

[@tanepukenga1421]

All you did was announce you couldn't follow the conversation when dozens are commenting pointing out THEY did by referencing what was said.

[@timtrial3971]

This kind of attitude is infested in the teachers unions. Labour and the union are cause of declining educational results in NZ.

[@BP-z3z]

This was a very frustrating watch. I wish Jack Tame would do some actual research and investigation before he has this conversation about education. There are so many complexities around measuring success in education, there needs to be much less sound bite and got ya interviews. Jan Tinetti is not a good spokesperson for education.

[@tanepukenga1421]

That's what I was thinking

[@MarcusJulian-i7y]

Jan Tinetti is like an alcoholic advising others to try alcohol. She as Minister was a disaster that cost so many New Kids a potential future. Jan should change career to Stock Car driver so that she can crash everything around her and she can pay the price of the crash.

[@humanwithaplaylist]

Jack has fallen for right wing probably that apparently privatization is better when its not

[@TimE-er1kn]

Me and my wife both did really well at school, but the modern school system have failed our teenage children right from the very beginning. Having the option of charter schools is a good thing not a bad thing when the government system has been broken for over a decade now.

[@overover..]

Do you get your proof that it doesn't work from the same studies as Jan Tinete? Her Stanford example didn't work out well for her...

[@alexrees7652]

@humanwithaplaylist - it is hilarious that in any interview where jack is talking to someone of the right, he is accused of being a left leaning apologist. As soon as he interviews someone of the left, you say he has fallen for the right wing…. Maybe he is a quality journalist who interrogates his interviewees with a modicum of rigour?

[@MrDaragom]

So you essentially think anything that is not run by the government is bad. Socialism 101.

[@bobtuiliga8691]

She's literally on the show trying to defend her focusing on culture and de-prioritizing maths as a way to improve maths (which clearly didn't work). THIS is why the government shouldn't run things.

[@thesquire6352]

How is this surprising? we have been growing conformists and not leaders for decades, most of the curriculum is full of obsolete things you would never do or use in your life. example: who has ever used pythagoras theorem? or pii to find the circumference of a circle? how about the last time someone asked you to list the english kings in order? This is the crap they learn instead of how to manage money and grow it, how to start a business and account for it, what age and financial status you need to be to have a secure family life etc etc. We are growing yes people and thats how all governments want it.......................... imagine if young people asked the hard questions like why do politicians get paid so much if they are public servants and why dont they show up for work? there would be chaos.

[@Tupunaforever]

Labour want's anything that works off the table, anything. Jan Tinetti is part of the train wreck.

[@scottfoley8072]

i think she won jack, smart lady...

[@craybro]

It’s not often that Jack asks tough questions of the left, normally just of the right. As a regular swing voter I appreciate this.

[@robyndowney2233]

I like the way Jan Tenetti bats straight back with significant answers to Jack Tame's questions. 😊

[@graemerowe264]

Teachers are more concerned with where will they spend their vacation time, Rarotonga or Gold Coast, than they are with teaching children

[@tanepukenga1421]

You've never talked to any have you? How do I know that? Because my ex's family who were ALL teachers never shut up about losing this resource that year, or being asked to completely redo their education for a political grandstand.

[@GordonDykes]

7*... where is your phone? Why didn't you use a computer to draw up these plans. Did you fail maths at school.... Well that's why you can't afford to buy a house.

[@markwilson9935]

Charter schools are fantastic. Look at their record. And if anybody knows about Thomas Sowell, he has stacks of data to prove it. Read his stuff. It will educate you.

[@barneyboy2008]

They shouldn't be paid for by the government.

[@tanepukenga1421]

Bahahahahahaha! We DID look at the record, that's why they aren't a thing anymore!

[@ngaftp]

Low comprehension.

[@bradleycoe6972]

oh jane that was a trainwreck

[@petermichael2504]

Nz curriculum is not working for nz kids... Onya jack..

[@kandredfpv]

All this politicising of education is a distraction. The problem is teachers who are unqualified (e.g. who haven't passed NCEA maths) teaching these subjects. Our anecdotal experience is we have had to supplement our childrens' schooling with evening lessons at home, and it always amazes me how little they are learning at school. This likely comes back to a lack of funding because the qualified ones can most likely earn more working outside of the education sector. Also if charter schools do better it's most likely because they are better funded per student and can attract more qualified teachers.

[@resrevr]

what percentage of teachers didn't pass NCEA maths?

[@barneyboy2008]

Actually chartered schools use less qualified teachers.

[@kandredfpv]

@@resrevr about a quarter of teacher have failed NCEA level 1 Maths. Look it up, it was recently published.

[@kandredfpv]

@@barneyboy2008 I wouldn't be surprised if many do, since they are unregulated. But if their funding is tied to outcomes those failure would eventually get exposed. Unfortunately it will be at the expense of the kids who by then would have already lost out on years of qualified teaching.

[@barneyboy2008]

@@kandredfpv under Seymours model they are only looked at over 10 years.

[@frankwilliams809]

What a waste of time hipkins and her failed mz kids 21:26

[@mattbelcher29]

Issue between yr 4 & yr 8? Maybe that’s when the students start using devices.

[@ninjabeatz905]

Wah + Wah + Wah = Waaarrrg

[@ctrun60]

One of Labour's most useless Ministers..Out of her depth .. did absolutely nothing to enhance education when a Minister. I wouldn't waste my time listening to anything she has to say!!