Ladybird browser update (June 2024)

Ladybird forks from SerenityOS: awesomekling.substack.com/p/f...
Ladybird on GitHub: github.com/LadybirdBrowser/la...

[@gargamel3478]

Can't wait for Ladybird to be usable! We need independent browsers in this Google-ized world.

[@Ownage4lif31]

Agreed. Sick of chrome constantly changing and forcing things down our throats. Firefox is alright but it just doesn't function as well as Chrome. Hoping ladybird can be the one in the middle that has the best of both worlds

[@core36]

@@Ownage4lif31 firefox not functioning as well as chrome mostly comes down to web devs optimizing for the browser with the most market share: chrome and chrome-based how many websites i've came across that just didn't work at all on firefox, or sometimes even safari. ever since we moved away from IE, web devs have become lazy.

[@djouze00]

It has been a while since you've made any Serenity specific content , but I'd like to thank you for all the content you've produced up until now. The coding sessions were a nice way to spend my time amidst the lockdowns during the pandemic. I've definitely learned a lot! I wish you, and all the others that are helping, good luck on Ladybird, I'd be glad to use it daily in the future 😀

[@ukaase]

you sacrificed your hair in exchange to make a cool and nice project from scratch i really appreciate that

[@awesomekling]

Small price to pay for being part of such a great community

[@krumbergify]

It’s amazing that you have managed to build Serinity from scratch, but if you are ever going to get Ladybird production ready then reusing existing high quality FLOSS components make a lot of sense.

[@kendawg_mcawesome]

Damn, didn't realise the forking was so drastic...

[@blobglo]

Since you're opening up the gates to use 3rd party libraries I'm guessing LibJS and LibWeb won't be affected? That would defeat the whole purpose of a new browser engine, no?

[@kreuner11]

Yes it's pretty obvious they aren't

[@awesomekling]

Indeed, LibJS and LibWeb won't be replaced! The world has enough Chromium reskins lol

[@Diamonddrake]

I’ve been following ladybird since the beginning. I’m a little disappointed to hear you’re no longer leading serenityOS and that ladybird is no longer entirely home grown but You’ve done so much and achieved what many people would say is impossible. I look forward to one day daily driving ladybird! Best of luck!

[@Sammi84]

They still have a rule about all implementations of web standards being home grown. Own html/css/js and browser api implementations. Just now they can use sqlite for db and use common implications for media codecs and such.

[@krumbergify]

What is really wrong about using high quality FLOSS libraries if they suit your needs? A browser is a massive project and Andreas will save decades of work by “sacrificing” not rewriting all that code! I really looking forward to having another FLOSS browser engine available.

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

very cool! also i love the small homepage energy, the true soul of the internet.

[@pgiulan]

Much love and power for your recovery friend. Wishing you clarity and peace of mind.

[@yeppiidev]

new ladybird video after ages? best way to start the month!

[@blobglo]

I hope prebuilt binaries are coming soon, I can't wait to try this out

[@kreuner11]

Building is easier than it seems

[@kuulajarkkoperse]

@@kreuner11 sooo why aren't they being distributed then?

[@gargamel3478]

Do you guys plan on implementing an ad blocker in Ladybird? Modern web without one is pretty much unusable sadly.

[@1337dingus]

It already does content filtering by default IIRC

[@MrDowntemp0]

Is there a separate channel to follow monthly SerenityOS updates too?

[@gabeb4326]

I second this question. I hope someone will be continuing the os updates! Each is an exciting project in its own right, and i'm glad they both have room to grow!

[@kreuner11]

@@gabeb4326 They're gonna be here run by Andrew as he has already been most likely

[@maxmouse3]

Absolutely AMAZING work! People think it's crazy to create a browser from scratch and u're proving them wrong!

[@theevilcottonball]

Will you make sure that the 3rdparty libraries are also ported to Serenity, so that Ladybird continues to be available on Serenity?

[@varshard0]

I think not with Serenity's policy of no 3rd party code. He also mentioned in his announcement on the website that Serenity is no longer a target of Laydybird, inline MacOS and Linux.

[@theevilcottonball]

Apart from Skia and woff2, all the libraries are already ported to Serenity libpng, libjpeg, ICU, FFmpeg, SQLite, fontconfig...

[@risman1979]

So Skia is in every single browser now, pretty much. Also used by Flutter and Compose on the mobile apps space. Is it really that good?

[@TimTom]

It’s mostly the only option. High performance and feature complete vector rendering is a tough challenge.

[@dyenire]

​@@TimTomsorry for "wtf", but wtf, you are here

[@KevinSheppard]

The browser's looking good, man. It's come along way since the first time I saw it.

[@SrIgort]

Well, this news is sad, not gonna lie. However, I'm not going to say it's a bad thing. It just makes the Ladybird project less 'cool' and more serious, I guess. It's definitely worth it for the benefits, and I hope native Windows builds are now closer to becoming a reality 😅

[@krumbergify]

Getting production ready is also cool :)

[@laden6675]

@@krumbergify nah not really

[@Warze]

Seems really promising, amazing progress so far!

[@thek3nger]

Great job, as usual! I should really check if my blog renders. I made my theme from scratch using all the weird new APIs, with a lot of trial and errors and probably without best practices :D

[@CYXXYC]

Possibly the most correct step there could be that will help the Ladybird project grow immensely into something mature and possibly mainstream. In my eyes, however, both of the projects basically are falling apart, as they were some really neat cohesive things to display that everything is possible to do manually, as well as being enjoyable to see what direction the contributors and Andreas in particular could bring the two. In particular, I thought of Ladybird as a non-major piece that completes SerenityOS as an impressive whole system, rather than a separate thing that tries to be the best competitive alternative to the numerous other browsers (including non-Chromium ones). Not to mention, now Serenity will be struggling to keep up if they are to keep the all-inhouse policy as well. I as a viewer will probably keep less attention to both projects now, even less than since Andreas has toned down the amount of videos. Thank you Andreas for the cool time I spent watching devlogs and participating in office hours chat.

[@waxlbloh6450]

kind of sad that ladybird now depends on a library maintained by google

[@NostraDavid2]

Luckily it's BSD licensed, so forking is always possible. A silver lining.

[@chrisxdeboy]

While you've relaxed your stance on third-party code, do you think you could make a rule to stick to only permissively-licensed code, for those of us who like everything to be statically-linked? It would be very helpful in that regard.

[@kevinjoseph8119]

Inspiring work, congrats Andreas and team.

[@reecefowell]

Where will SerenityOS updates be posted? Is there a separate channel for that or will they be posted on this channel still?

[@fl343]

Kudos to the development team! This is going to be a great browser.

[@eternal-meek]

What's the plan for SerenityOS's browser? Has the team decided to just maintain the old/original Ladybird, or is something else in the works? Awesome stuff btw

[@jogibear9988]

nice progress every month. My page does not yet work, but it seems all the fixmes are now printed out twice.

[@awesomekling]

URL? :)

[@jogibear9988]

@@awesomekling I've already an issue: #53

[@coshvjicujmlqef6047]

Manifest v2 extensions support?

[@bigmistqke]

O damn now i m excited for tomorrow

[@Tala2n]

Is the web engine separated from the interface ? As instance is it usable as a backend of Qutebrowser or Nyxt ?

[@michaelrenper796]

Its called a teletype not a typewriter. They are derived from telegraphy machines. Now lets guess where the device name "tty" is derived from.

[@kneekoo]

Hmm, no SerenityOS update video for June 2024 - yet. I wonder what's up with that.

[@hampus23]

Yeah me too

[@Mad3011]

Now that external libraries are allowed I am wondering where you are going to draw the line. Is there a core that will always be from scratch? If so what will that contain? HTML, CSS, JS, WASM?

[@awesomekling]

The line is a bit fuzzy, but the core web browser engine will always be ours. The point here is to lean on the OSS ecosystem for things that aren't core competencies of a browser engine :)

[@vytah]

What are the chances for restoring SerenityOS support in Ladybird?

[@erlend1587]

Great work. Will the Ladybird browser now be a third party package in Serenity OS ?

[@kreuner11]

No, LibWeb and LibJS are mostly being synced together on a best-effort basis

[@naranyala_dev]

browser, browser, browser

[@Johnmoe_]

Now that Mozilla is transitioning into an ad company Ladybird is more important then ever.

[@chenhonzhou]

really hope you can start recording the hacking-browser series again

[@fev4]

thank you for pushing the web forward

[@unucellply4221]

a good thing about this' that with ffmpeg, Ladybird might be a good peerflix alternative on Android

[@gljames24]

How does Ladybird compare to Servo?

[@avramitra]

I'm rooting for ladybird. We really need more independent browsers that are not f**ing chromium based. ❤

[@sharoyveduchi]

I just hope LadyBird doesn't have a Microsoft Edge or Opera moment where it gives up and decides to be a chrome fork. Hopefully the SerenityOS version of the browser maintains the no-third party library rule and someone can maintain a fork of that for Linux and Windows.

[@invisi1407]

Using third-party libraries makes sense if your goal is to get people to use what you make. SerenityOS is a hobby project where one of the goals was specifically to make everything from scratch - LadyBird has turned into something that could become a proper browser at some point and as he explained about maintainability in the beginning, not using third-party libraries where it makes sense would be a nightmare.

[@vanish3408]

I like your new desktop environment I assume it's GNOME, but with what theme?

[@-aexc-]

stock theme with an extension for the bar. maybe the font is different idk

[@vanish3408]

@@-aexc- thanks

[@headache888]

All I want for christmas are new coding sessions. :)

[@survivor303]

one what we really need is sync, so please allow 3rd make a extension (plugin) for it, so it doesn't need to come from you guys.

[@mabdinur85]

I get it and support the decision although I thought sharing two big projects under one house was meant to be a net benefit for both, it certainly was improving the native libraries that both shared? Also the idea of no 3rd party libraries seemed like an area where Ladybird browser would smooth out those restrictions for Serenity in the whole. Ladybird browser could have been the backdoor to allow "some" 3rd party libraries into SerenityOS while still maintaining that overall mantra of no 3rd party libraries with the exception of helping the browser project. Again I support the decision and hope Ladybird browser gains new energy and maybe one day returns to Serenity support as a 3rd party downloaded browser installed on the OS like most browsers are.

[@channel11121]

add regex to the find-in-page!

[@kaustix852]

ladybird should focus on being lightweight. The memory usage on modern browsers is insane.

[@vantadaga]

So serenity is basically dead now

[@awesomekling]

SerenityOS lives! I haven't actually worked on it for over 2 years, but hundreds of other people have. My stepping down as BDFL just makes it official that I'm no longer working on it. :)

[@travelan]

R.I.P. SerenityOS

[@kreuner11]

why? kling hasnt worked on it anyway as of late

[@1337dingus]

@@kreuner11 It's a huge symbolic change and general interest in Serenity unfortunately has dropped significantly. Ladybird has much more potential to be useful to a wider audience but as a nerd I still love SerenityOS more.

[@kreuner11]

@@1337dingus how do you know that serenity has less interest?

[@nezu_cc]

​@@kreuner11projects like this without support from the creator die very quickly. "The community" is not gonna exist for long if the whole reason why this community came to be in the first place is no longer there. Right now it's hard to prove since it just happened but come back 2-3 months later and compare the numbers, I'm certain you will notice the fall of.

[@kreuner11]

@@nezu_cc the fall off will be related to the web browser development happening in the new repository. The OS seems just as active as it was

[@nezu_cc]

So waht? Serenity is now without a browser since it doesn't allow third party code? Kidna sad you basically killed killed it and instead decided to import a banch of 3rd part (including Google LOL) stuff.

[@someoneelse3876]

Microsoft who have unlimited money failed with their Trident and Edge why do you think you have a chsnce?

[@Ownage4lif31]

Well there's a difference between being a company that focuses on many things than just one. Microsoft doesn't care about it as much and if ladybird does right then it'll easy be one of the better browsers to use. What you've said is kind of silly. Steve jobs created IOS and that was with just a few people. Just because you have money doesn't mean you have talent. It's all about the leader. Another great example of this would be Intel Vs amd.

[@undefined_cat]

Omlette du fromage

[@Gazzar19]

Like the project

[@EeveeEuphoria]

why does the new website have an AI-generated laptop? when i think about the worst parts of the modern web, i think of AI. so... by you doing that, that's causing some serious trust issues for you to not fall for the same pitholes as google and mozilla.

[@marcuskissinger3842]

Why are you so mad about AI?

[@slendi9623]