The Stone Espresso Machine: New Mid Tier from Rocket Espresso

[@LanceHedrick]

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[@davidjaniszewski6653]

Lance what do you think of the La Spaziale Vivaldi series machines. They use the thicker aspect ratio 53mm portafilter and temp adjustable dual boiler and a saturated non E61 group

[@EugeneBuvard]

Any chance you would have time to review the new Zuriga machine? It seems really quick and innovative.

[@pedero.p6505]

@lancehendrick - would you descale a machine like this with natural products like citric acids?

[@flug_rost]

How big companies allow high touch point elements like the steam knob to look and feel so cheap is beyond me.

[@Good.News777]

That's what marketing does. I am not a fan of stone either, aesthetic wise!

[@byMRTNjournals]

That's moddable. I own a Specialita Grinder, it's adjustment knob is small and small adjustments male a huge difference. An aftermarket number dial completely transformed the grinder.

[@TheO18177]

while i agree, i could see a potential reason for it from a company stand-point, that being rocket in this case. If it is 1,935$ for an Appartamento, but only 999$, there needs to be some "big" drawbacks. At least that is my theory.

[@maxmeier532]

@@byMRTNjournals it's modabble how.

[@byMRTNjournals]

@@maxmeier532 Google "Specialita Grinder dial"

[@heresey]

Built nicely for the price. Really appreciate that there's always a teardown in your reviews.

[@RitheLucario]

Nice to see a review on this machine. I did my research around Black Friday last year and settled on the Stone as a reliable, no frills pick, and I'm happy to see that more experienced voices seem to agree. It's my first espresso machine so I didn't mind not having the frills that more experienced espresso makers like to play with, but I wanted to make sure I had a machine that wouldn't 'fight' me while I'm trying to learn how to dial in coffees, pulling shots and practicing steaming milk. I've been making some good espresso with it -- better than a lot of the local coffee shops I've been visiting -- so I'm certainly happy with the choice I made.

[@TheEspressoTV]

Thanks for mentioning the short sequence of my video where the thermosiphon circuit is shown. Best from south Germany Markus

[@LanceHedrick]

Thanks for the informative videos!

[@stujlfc]

I’ve had one of these since January. I love it. Also worth mentioning that vs the Mara X, the heat up time on this is about 10mins rather than 30mins. That was a dealbreaker for me. I’m not interested in messing with temperature or pressure. It’s a solidly built machine that can pull shots and steam milk at the same time (back to back) with good temperature stability. That will do for me

[@despostizzz]

Great review , thank you Lance. Finally a professional review on the Stone. I am in London. I got the Stone Espresso Pure for £800 and at this price point I think is very good. Simple to use , very good temperature stability , small footprint, very quick to heat up and can steam & bre at the same time.. I was considering a Lelit Mara X but it would cost £1100 and the internals must be more complex and I think more likely to wear down eventually. A Profitec Go here in uk is £700 but needs to wait a few minutes to steam from brewing.

[@Gk2003m]

3:10: plastic drip trays are the best. They don’t oxidize, they don’t leak. As for the actuator, I’d bet the grouphead is a bit… warm. So if you’re gonna put the actuator up there, plastic (or wood) to insulate your hand from the heat is a functionally good idea.

[@Oliccino]

Touch point still awfully close to the hot element. Why not put something higher and more beautiful there. Plastic drip tray is okay, but tiny drip tray is annoying. Only on E61 Machines though. This one doesn't seem to relieve the puck pressure and water into the tray so it doesn't fill up at all if you don't want to.

[@briantan3931]

I have a plastic drip tray that's 20+ years old. Still fine

[@danielchin8073]

Yes! And without the need for cooling flushes, the small drip tray kind of goes with the small water reservoir. Seems good to me.

[@Gk2003m]

@@Oliccino Automatic pressure relief at the ‘end’ of a shot makes preinfusion more difficult.

[@Oliccino]

@@Gk2003m agreed. That's why I modded my E61 so I can turn off the pump without eroding the puck. This machine here seems clever but visually it's lacking imo

[@TheMartinChnnl]

For the home user, there's no doubt that the BEST thermal stability is the one that comes from saturated groups preferably 500ml + PID. The steam can be resolved by putting a thermoblock dedicated to steaming. There's no need to waste so much weight in materials that don't even do what they should do well... A perfect machine for the home would be a Turin Legato with externally adjustable OPV, with no plastic tubings for hot water circuits and with a secondary pump for steaming. That's it. And you save at least 10kg in building materials and you get a much better thermal stability which translates in better shots. Dalla Corte managed to achieve WBC-quality thermal stability with their Studio machine which just has a 500ml boiler for the coffee water circuit. That's all we need.

[@JohnSmith-zy1ur]

WBC?

[@analogalchemy]

@@JohnSmith-zy1ur World Barista Championship...

[@TheMartinChnnl]

@@JohnSmith-zy1ur World Barista Championship has its own standards for the machines used for the competitions. Standards that focus a lot on thermal stability and repeatability so that the shots are as even and as better tasting as they possibly can.

[@classicrockonly]

I was looking at these a few months ago but I’ve heard 0 about Stone from anyone, until this video. It looks better than I thought it would be, but I’m happy I got the Profitec GO

[@johnjohntv1195]

Just found this channel and it’s already my new favourite. I can’t stop binge watching every video 😅😂😂

[@juliastrasser3766]

for the price you can get a Profitec p300 with dual boiler and pid, also comes with e61 style ring brew group, that fits all e61 Equipment...

[@sympathetic_crustacean]

Or just a Go.

[@SKG-d2t]

How nice to wake up to a new Hedrick review! How can a major company put all the effort into production and not read the room? No PID, no OPV access, poor drip tray capacity & material. Would like to see a review of the Profitec GO, and their new double boiler Move.

[@jesussalinas3947]

Lance blowing into the machine in slowmo truly made me laugh out loud! Thank you Lance for the entertainment and espresso knowledge!

[@mrchedda]

Thanks for the video! Super knowledgable and entertaining! Thanks for the info!

[@tatemazer]

Awesome video, Lance! really makes you wonder if Rocket will ditch the E61 (I think they should 👀)

[@ryanlseaton]

This video was well-paced and super informative.

[@danielchin8073]

Seems like a good quality, serviceable machine. I currently have a Gaggia, so my upgrade path is Gaggiuino instead of new machine, but even that has to wait for me to have both the money and will.

[@greysuit17]

The Stone “ Does the climb! Like Miley Cyrus” 😂😂 Best sells pitch I have ever heard!

[@zeropuckprep]

I didn’t understand this reference 😂

[@karasong7701]

Great review! I was looking for a review of this where temperature is tested. This might be my next machine.

[@bmyvettjr]

Lance thank you so much the reviews they are great to see.

[@LightZone9]

I've been a fan of the Stone since it first came out a couple of years ago. At that price point, I'm not sure how much more you can expect from the machine. Surely an Etsy entrepreneur will come up with a stylish option for the control knobs and panels. Fast heat up time, thermal stability and well made.... again, you have to keep the price point in mind.

[@Markymark1408]

Lance, have you seen the new Ninja Luxe Cafe? Any plans to pick one up?

[@CH-yp5by]

Given the fact if you are working with one group head when making two or three coffees you will havea break between each coffee to clean and prepare the next puck so the machine will ahve some stabilisation time for the temp.

[@Mandragara]

I like the side panels but I'd like temp control at this price. Decaf espresso yummy

[@albinflyckt7983]

Lance is such a cool guy. Love the charisma

[@davidtester863]

Great review!

[@stefanmesaros]

Can you review the new Profitec Move? similar idea to this but with more features

[@kalle3940]

When I got my new machine I was choosing between this one and a NS Oscar mood. Went with the NS in the end though.

[@MBergyman]

We need more options in this size and format! Mara X and the Stone are perfect sized. I am currently playing on a Calphalon Temp iQ (I only bought it because it was literally $25). Looking to upgrade at the end of the year. Lance, do the plastic bits you pop-pooed come off easily enough? Could be a good opp for some aftermarket knobs to make the feel portions better.

[@Pudgeums316]

Hey Lance! Video suggestion, since I don’t know where else to put it: Could you do a video on what type of water you use in your espresso machines and pour over? I.e. distilled water and how you make it, adding minerals at the end, etc. I am wanting to make distilled water and then adding lotus supplements to it, but the whole process seems extremely expensive in the end.

[@mattwilliams7454]

If they don't sell well and go on a big sale id consider it.

[@JordyValentine]

I hate that big plastic actuator, just put a switch there. A plastic switch would bother me so much less, never thought my Gaggia switches felt cheap

[@corwinblack4072]

Seems like good starting point for few mods indeed.

[@Arvisgrt]

You should review the oracle jet and compare it with the old oracle. It’s interesting I think they made a mistake switching to single broiler. I have the original oracle and have had several espresso machines and I think it deserves a lot of love for what it accomplishes.

[@MySierraNevadaLife]

Great review! Do you happen to know the quality of metals? I am wondering if it uses low-lead brass for the brass end caps of the boiler, like profitec/ECM uses? That is a very important aspect that would influence my decision, Cant seem to find that info online. Thank you!

[@SteveJarek]

Lance quick question, I’m considering buying one of these, how do you descale it?

[@bachnguyen9294]

I can’t get my eyes off that lever machine on the counter behind Lance… It is such a beauty really. What’s its name? Please someone help me identify that piece of art.

[@ianshepherd6476]

Profitec go is 1,000 or more for trim options. It’s prob built better than the stone too but I bet the stone has more steaming capabilities. I would have liked an e61 lever from half way pre-infusion. It’s a competitive price point at 1k with some other machines

[@TheMeeeeeeeeeeep]

Judging by the pump switch behind the actuation knob this will probably work like a traditional e61 regarding preinfuison. But i have never seen the stone irl, so i dont really know.

[@TheN30M]

Have you considered testing the Profitec pro 300? Seems like the best mid tier espresso machine for your preferences (or anyone really)! Would be super interesting to hear your thoughts

[@omarhani]

Why did you do check the flow rate before the scace test? Wouldn't that mush the temp results since it's doing the same as a cooling flush?

[@justinbouchard]

the start brew "knob" had to have better iterations than that it hurts my soul

[@FatNorthernBigot]

I don't understand how this is better than an E61 HX machine?

[@ronaldsantosjapan]

14:15 Well, THAT is a very different method of getting your machine to froth.

[@jakobegedal9615]

I would love if you did a deep dive review on La Spaziale S1 DREAM is totally on board it is not a brand new machine but it is a 53mm

[@needmorebeans]

Keen to hear your thoughts on the higher end E61 and thermoblock Gemilai/Corrima machines (the OEM that white-labels for MiiCoffee Apex).

[@briantan3931]

At 6:55, you mentioned you like high flow rate. Why is high flow rate better, Lance?

[@pitt4720]

How about doing a profitec go review? Please!

[@alexjj231]

what about the missing hot water outlet? how can you drain / refresh the boiler ?

[@Hundredthldiot]

Horrendous temperature control. Lance is being excessively generous with this review.

[@onegraham]

That wasn't an example of the temperatures you'd see, but an example of the stability of temps. Which was really good.

[@thebigdan88]

What do you think about the new Ninja Luxe Cafe?

[@lesslighter]

why can't they just copy the sliding lever from the mara.... :X

[@vicdaimiel]

Same price Lelit MaraX ???? I dont know Rick

[@JoacoBravo11]

What will be the pricing for this machine?

[@SmuggiNOLA]

Is there a difference between stone “pro” and “premium”? Seattle coffee has different color side paneled premiums for $999

[@SmuggiNOLA]

Stone plus and mine. Pretty much any stone espresso machine for $999 regardless of original price.

[@thereignman0120]

can you do a review on some chinese branded machines? like the Gemilai or the MIlesto brands?. price is very cheap compared to popular Italian brands and they appear to be really good on paper. They have a wide range of products starting from $160 - $5K if converted to USD.

[@puperfiction]

Turned on the machine, filled up water but then boiler is not pulling water when pump is running when turning on steam handle. No pressure at all. What am I doing wrong?

[@BruceWayne-ck2yy]

Do cooling flushes even mean anything if you have an electronically heated group head?

[@Oliccino]

The water in the heat exchanger is the problem..it's too hot from sitting in the boiler. So you want fresh water from the tank to fill it. That's why u flush the hot water out.

[@SouthernSage]

"Coarser is Life"

[@georgedoolittle9015]

*"EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"* went in on the silent mode no doubt/not

[@philindeblanc]

This is a marketing response to Apartmento success for styling/pricepoint, in my opinion.

[@MichaelBxl]

The minimal temperature is like 94 degrees. Isn't it high?

[@Handledy]

What’s the setup he measures the flow rate with his phone ? At 6 min and 45 seconds.

[@emilethrash2670]

The Smart Espresso Profiler app, with his Bluetooth scale

[@KeepoKreepo]

Looks like an Acaia Lunar and the Smart Espresso Profiler app. I think?

[@abelgeringer4239]

I have never realy understood why does every espresso machine does it's heating differently, but ususally achiving a similar result of not being realy that stable temperaturewise (in a humanly accessable pricepoint, so not like a Decent). I mean these things cost 1000-2000 dollars sometimes. Seems such a trivial problem, yet it must be very difficult. Why is is so hard to put out a stabil temp from the grouphead. Could somebody help me to understand this?

[@goldencalf5144]

It's a heat exchange machine, so the brew water is actually heated as it travels through a tube in the boiler. It's difficult to precisely control the temperature when water is heated this way. Whereas in a dual boiler setup, you have a dedicated boiler for the brew water that can be precisely set to a certain temp.

[@joegoodsell]

I wish there were more machines like this with electronically operated group heads. The lever-actuated E61s need lubricating with Molykote after every backflush with cleaner to prevent the brass cam pins wearing away - this is a massive pain and more technical than what the average home barista wants to do. So you end up either wearing the machine prematurely or not backflushing as much as you should.

[@Analyse_US]

Jeez $1750 USD in New Zealand. Talk about a varation in international pricing.

[@adargusch]

If you had to pick between the Unica, ES1 or Decent. What would be your choice?

[@LanceHedrick]

For me, Unica. No question.

[@LanceHedrick]

That being said, the new Bengal should come out soon and it may take the cake.

[@adargusch]

@@LanceHedrick Thank you for your feedback!

[@Valspartame_Maelstrom]

it’s lit 🔥

[@beach9952]

He lance it's me again for the third time asking you to do a review on the hibrew h7a dual boiler because I haven't seen any valid coffee youtuber review it and the company itself didn't aswell even tho it's thier best machine

[@DanFlynn]

Marketing spent all their stainless steel on the ugly side panels, leaving the engineers with plastic controls...

[@odinallfather8241]

Watched this while sitting on the couch on my laptop while my 17 year old son gamed beside me. He's a non-coffee drinker. I know. I've failed as a father. (However, my 14 year old daughter is a latte drinker. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) "Over 1000??!! On a coffee machine?? Thats crazy!!" "How much do you think our's cost?" (Breville dual boiler) "I don't know, $100? $150?" (I'm known not to spend money on myself) Goes back to watching my video...

[@Kiaulen]

Even before you mentioned the profitec go, I figured that was the competition here. And I'd definitely pick that (or maybe an Ascaso Uno) before this. I do love that rocket actually cares about giving color options though. Seems like it's always black white chrome with everyone else. Except for the GCP

[@ChiefNabster]

Liked and subscribed :) Any plans to review the Meraki coffee machine?! :) Thanks,

[@philindeblanc]

Lance, ease up on the espresso, lol, you got the PF slamin around.... the cup flyin off the tray...lol.

[@josephhwang1428]

Hard to believe this is from Rocket.

[@fungt89]

Looks fun but probably not for me. Rocket is a good company that will probably improve and iterate on it as the years go on so maybe these cheap bits will be addressed in the future.

[@OneIdeaTooMany]

We need more innovation in the home coffee space. I don't particularly like this design but im glad that they're trying something new. Kinda sits nicely in that price point where you'd give it a try and then get hooked.

[@liiich6175]

Vibration pump with those dumb plastic side panels....yeah nah, my silvia vibrates way too much with just the top lid so no way id consider a vibe pump with so many random things attached to it

[@tatemazer]

Rocket surprisingly did choose to install more of a midrange vibratory pump in this machine. I've found it to be significantly quieter than my silvia.

[@liiich6175]

@@tatemazer I don't think the pump is much on an issues, ive taken my siliva apart and the pump alone is super quiet. Its only when fully assembled there is resonance sounds and mainly the silicone hose into the water tank that makes up 90% of any noise for me. Ive also full sound treated mine with Auto sound dampening material.

[@CoffeeAndSmoke23]

How you can just so casually steam milk not even trying and still produce stellar latte art while I try my hardest and stress over it and still cant pour decent art really pisses me off 😂😂 😒

[@pauldaplayfulpanda3042]

It is absurd that a $1000+ machine has no controllable PiD, no timer, no programmability, just nothing in 2024 (or 2022 when this came out). The breville bambino matches this machine on all features (with admittedly worse build quality) for less than a third of the price...

[@tatemazer]

bambino is quite a different machine built from a different direction. The stone uses internals trickled down from rocket's commercial machines, and prioritizes serviceability and longevity like lance mentioned. It's by far the easiest domestic machine I've ever serviced. The actively heated group and impressive steaming performance are also great pluses that make this feel much more like a commercial machine workflow.

[@goldencalf5144]

This is a heat exchanger machine with a large boiler. The Bambino uses cheaper thermoblock heating. In practical terms, the steaming performance is going to be a lot better.

[@pauldaplayfulpanda3042]

@@tatemazer fair, serviceability is definitely a valid point over the Bambino. But even then, profitec makes an excellent quality machine at this price point, with just better features all around. This machine feels like Rocket doesn't quite understand what the modern home user wants in a machine in my opinion

[@pauldaplayfulpanda3042]

@@goldencalf5144 I understand the differences but is a heat exchanger really much/any better for espresso brewing than a thermoblock in 2024? Steaming performance, sure, but $700+ more...

[@goldencalf5144]

@@pauldaplayfulpanda3042 If your only interested in espresso, the thermoblock would probably work as well (perhaps better). An E61 group head would give you some pre infusion, but this machine doesn't use an E61.

[@toddpower4674]

Lol Retired or not, from latte art, yours still beats the crap outta mine. Ive been practicing for 8 yrs

[@parasbhargava6047]

is this an expensive bambino?

[@pabloeskibar8076]

id go for profitec go

[@cheekster777]

Yo!

[@chris_huelsemeyer]

Worflow-wise I cannot understand that it doesn’t have a shot timer. Year-wise I cannot understand it is missing a PID. Both would have added 100-150 to the price, but would have made it interesting

[@gee.g.3131]

Was eyeing this machine but at least here in Europe there are so many better alternatives at the price point...

[@tatemazer]

Technically the PID is adjustable, but it does require adjusting it on the control board at the back of the machine 😵

[@patrickpoppe5017]

@@gee.g.3131which machine would you recommend? I’m undecided between this machine and the Profitec Go. The Profitec Go has a PID which I like and a faster heat up time. This machine would be better for steaming milk but I only drink occasionally a flat white.

[@viperlt86]

Looked at one of these. Bought a Bianca.

[@mauort6870]

That's little league . HA🤣hilarious yet fair

[@TheSaNiOnE]

why, just why? some of the worst design choices ever... could be so much better with 1-2 small changes

[@vit220]

I'll just add a little bit more and get a rocket It looks like an old mini fridge

[@AravindRetnakumar]

I stopped watching the video at around 2:21 mark. Why? Price point of around $1000 and it's a machine with just an on off switch + steam!!!!! These guys must be tripping. I can buy a Profitech Go at that price!!!!!

[@ZacharyPinder]

With all the information and competition on espresso machines out there, I don’t see how they can release a new machine without a PID at the very least these days. Way overpriced for what is essentially just a unique design.

[@atifsarfraz7621]

i don't my water to touch plastic period

[@jacquesguillotte3270]

Very sad 😢 machine coming from 🎉 Rocket cie. Not enough good features even considering the low price. Lance and other viewers please check the Bellezza Bellonna before buying. More good features 👌 at this price level.

[@InHellBaby1]

It’s ugly in my opinion.

[@rusbatmen727]

Not the dream on object. I think my 120$ Picopresso will make better espresso😂

[@analogalchemy]

I don't like it. Especially without an E61 because you know eventually you won't be able to get silicon gaskets for it, just like every other manufacturer who stops supporting their machines after 3 years.

[@DarkShadowAy]

What a disappointing release. The design is just awful.

[@LanceHedrick]

As in aesthetic? It's actually built quite nicely.

[@Handledy]

@@LanceHedrickyour just being nice. You big teddy bear. He means for a thousand bucks he wanted more bells and whistles. 😂

[@NickMayers-rj9zn]

Love that there was innovations but definitely with you in that they seem to be all the wrong ones. I'd much prefer if a group head like the sanremo you (heat cartridge assisted e61) came to the mid-range space.

[@robertp457]

Please take a look at Smeg espresso machines to get some perspective.

[@robertp457]

@@Handledycalling something that’s good awful doesn’t make any sense then.

[@Doubting_Thomas1]

I'm sorry, but the Idea of having no pressure gauge on an espresso machine is insane and a nonstarter, not only for safety but to ensure that it is functioning properly, especially if you are going to drop 1K

[@hawkeyehope]

I have a profitec pro 300 and I've never cared about the lack of pressure gauge. Brew pressure gauge does nothing for safety and I ensure that it's functioning by making espresso with it.

[@ЛентяйЁпта]

Abhorrent. This is made to break and so the customer has to buy again. E61 lasts forever, the industry dislikes that very much.

[@LanceHedrick]

Curious what about it will break?

[@OneIdeaTooMany]

We have better technology these days to design better group heads for the home. Innovation is a good thing. E61 should be replaced.

[@tatemazer]

less moving parts, less parts... no thermosiphon loop to ever hydrolock... they arguably really improved the e61 with this machine

[@Chzydawg]

This thing looks like a sad 1970’s communist party espresso machine from Soviet Russia. I’m not saying it performs like that, but it is really kind of uninspiring in terms of aesthetics.

[@cichlisuite2]

Their logo kinda says 1970's as well. Have to say I'm really not a fan of that and they seem to like to put it all over the side if you go for the cheaper option. That's one way to encourage people to spend a bit more.