Landing the Cardinal

[@guillermopatinomayer215]

Lovely! I own a C177A in Argentina and as you say, it’s a wonderful plane to fly… visibility, performance, comfort, etc. And I love your videos… my only comment would be 70-75 mph to land. It’s a much better and comfortable speed in my opinion. All the best and happy new year!

[@jimdulin2146]

I just bought 1968 cardinal today,I am picking it up next week.i got my pilot license last month and was trained in 172 cessna,so hopefully the transition won’t be to hard.super excited

[@salimsopari]

make some videos when you get it!

[@crooked-halo]

Flew a Cardinal for my required complex time during commercial training. It was love at first flight after “living” in a 172 through private & instrument training. School only had two complex/retractable gear aircraft, the Cardinal & an old, worn-out, Hershey Bar wing Arrow. That meant scheduling the Cardinal was difficult since everyone loved it! I was thoroughly briefed on landing the 177 before flying it & had no problem at all in transitioning from a 172. I was signed off for solo in an hour. I would rent a Cardinal today without thinking. What a wonderful airplane!

[@robertd4468]

Good to know. It’s going to be the aircraft I’m buying. Getting pretty close now.

[@darkshadowgamingii]

Someday i’ll own one! It doesn’t matter how old the plane is, i like it and it’s legendary.

[@oward6922]

I love the videos. I turn 49 in a couple months and started learning to fly last month. Trying to weigh my options on an plane and leaning towards a 177. Keep the videos coming.

[@georgepeach5430]

Great video. Like you, I began flying in my early 50’s and own a Cardinal. I’ve had a 177B for more than three years and had to practice many touch-and-go landings before finally getting it right. I find with 20 degrees of flaps at 65-70 knots over the numbers, I spend less time in ground affect and can land fairly smoothly. Less speed it’ll sink too quickly and anything much higher than 70 it still wants to fly. Every so often it still surprises me in one way or another on landing. I love the airplane though and hope to be flying it for many years. Thanks again for your well done video!

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

George Peach thanks George ! I know what you mean I can’t get enough of the plane and even when I was making this video I wanted to go back and practice more landings in it!

[@kevinm9301]

Good tips, I just started flying the cardinal. It is nice to see other peoples methods!

[@jacquelavalle8828]

Wow... awesome job. I have nearly 20 years flying Cardinals, both RG and FG. RGs are heavier, but both are equally stable platforms on final. In your video I see a lot of porpoising in the round out. Here is a little trick I learned from Guy Meyer. When you have the runway made, put in full nose up trim. With 30 degrees of flaps, you will have to push on the yoke to maintain your stabilized approach speed. This is odd at first but works like a charm. When its time for the round out, slowly relax that forward pressure and let the nose settle to about 5 degrees up attitude, no less, no more. Carry about 1100 RPM and let the plane land when IT wants to. Then immediately retard the throttle and slowly add back pressure for aerodynamic braking. Never use the brakes unless you need to. They cost money and the runway is paid for. On take offs, there two techniques I use. On RGs, I roll out with back pressure on the yoke (much like a soft field T/O). When the plane gets light (30-40 knots), maintain 5 degrees nose up attitude, again, no more, no less. The plane will gently leave the ground on it's own. Once out of ground effect, trim for Vy or 86 knots, gear up, flaps up, re-trim. On the FG I find the nose likes to pop up sooner without having to hold back pressure (its missing the 150 pounds that the RG has). So when that happens (around 40 knots) I keep the 5 degree nose up attitude. It always amazes me how quickly the plane gets to Vy. I hope to see you at Shannon sometime. Love that little airport. Fly safe, fly often. Jacque, N20217

[@spinf0rk]

Jacque Lavalle I did my transition training with Guy Maher too, about 8 years ago now. He was a very good instructor! I remember this technique. At the time he was emphasizing to me that this was teaching tool to help teach the proper sight picture and feel for landing but not necessarily a technique to use once used to it. With power fully out and full nose up trim the sight picture looks just right for an approach in a Cardinal. Hundreds of hours and landings later this rings true. I don’t always use the full nose up trim but that sight picture to achieve is burned into my mind. One downside to full nose up trim on final is that a go-around requires a substantial push on the yoke. It’s good to practice at altitude one time so you know what to expect when you bring in full power with full nose up trim.

[@jackpinnell3973]

thanks for your video. Very comprehensive and detailed, but easy to understand. I have a few hours in a FG 177 as PIC and my CFI at the time spent about 30 minutes in the pattern with me before we ferried to another FBO for avionics work. Wasn't thrilled with the 177 at the time as I had heard some unkind remarks from other pilots about them. My CFI made sure I was comfortable landing the 177 for ALL the reasons you brought out in your video.

[@davidpianosi4512]

That is a very interesting description of feeling the CG just before landing. Next time out I will try to play with that feeling of CG ahead of CP.

[@trackthismotherfuckers9805]

Love it! I'm NEARLY 40 so if i can learn to fly when I'm 50 I'll be happy. Love from Australia!

[@prestonmiller9552]

I did my share of Crow Hop landings in the beginning. I always described the Cardinal as plane that requires a bit more finesse and it is definitely not as forgiving on landing as a 172 or 182. But in time you begin to get the feel for it and it becomes easier to land. Crosswinds are not any more of a problem it seems than a 172 or 182.

[@markgunnison]

Great video. I have always liked the look of the Cardinal. I had a hangar neighbor with one and he would make some of the same comments on the Cardinal. He has since cold the plane. I had a Cessna 170A back then but have a 1961 Mooney today.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Thanks Mark!

[@SkydiveLatvia]

Thanks for the video the video is perfect exactly how I feel this plane. The Cardinal was great I just fall in love from first fly.

[@nietztsuki]

I started flight training at age 60. I feel your pain. Bought a '77 Cardinal 177B right after obtaining my private in a '56 172 straight tail. The transition was smooth but for the landing peculiarities of the Cardinal upon flair. I still have to be sharp not to over control the stabilator. A 172 pilot who is unfamiliar with the touchiness of the stabilator can get into trouble quickly if not properly instructed on the Cardinal. Even then, old habits are hard to break. Forrest

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Awesome! Keep on flying and let me know how you’re doing. Thanks for watching!

[@carlfichtner8148]

Very interesting, you know your Cardinal . To the point.

[@cyrilraczynski813]

excellent

[@fkend1]

No problem I learnt to fly when I was 60 and received my licence after 3 months.

[@DTWobserver]

The Cardinal is really cool, and I bet owning and flying one is a blast!!! You're operating in and out of some narrow runways, but at about 6:20 you make a point about not being concerned about the center line. I've never flown one and I know the Cardinal is unique, but please rethink this idea. I have flown a variety of airplanes, and in none of them has the runway center line been less than a very big priority. Every take off and every landing strive to maintain the center line like a professional. The weather can change quickly at times, and forming good habits can help you stay out of trouble when Mother Nature throws you a curve ball.

[@themechanic568]

This is a solid video. I love seeing other 68s! Save up your pennies and get an 0-360 in that bad boy. I have the 200hp in my 68 and I absolutely love the extra power! You nailed the characteristics to a Tee! Downwind is 10° flaps and 15" manifold base is 20 and 12" final is trimmed a d 70-75 across the threshold. The controls are insanely sensitive compared to a 172. The best thing is, when you work at it you can get your approach dialed and grease it every time which makes you a great pilot. Don't get lazy though, practice all of the landings. 30° with a short field can be challenging but is doable under 1000ft.

[@RootBeerGMT]

The Mechanic Just bought a 68 with the 150hp interested in power upgrade on a budget

[@salimsopari]

@@RootBeerGMT going to buy a 68 with a 150hp also, let me know what you come up with!

[@nickolson1491]

I've owned both a FG and RG Cardinal. They are wonderful airplanes. Use proper landing techniques and you will have no problem. I've observed far too many Cardinal drivers go from descent to flare and skip the transition, or round out. That's a recipe for a rough landing or worse... I also suggest, especially with the RG, carrying some extra ballast in the baggage area if you're flying with full tanks and one passenger or less. Some pilots carry as much as 100# back there. I carry 50# unless I'm carrying heavy baggage too. If you own or plan to own a Cardinal, I strongly urge you to join Cardinal Fliers Online. Everything you ever wanted to know and more about Cardinal airplanes plus immeasurable help from other owners and experts.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Absolutely! Already a member! Thanks for watching!

[@henryostman5740]

I've owned mine since 1980, it is a '71 C177B so I have 180 hp and a constant speed. The trick is controlling speed and altitude. Get it down to below 100 mph before you put the flaps down (you absolutely don't need flaps above that speed anyhow), you're in the pattern downwind, I set power at 15" (a little more depending on load), one notch and bleed airspeed down to 90 mph, put prop at max speed (it won't rev up since you don't have enough power on), end of runway cut power to 10", notch two of flaps, turn base, bleed speed down to 80 mph (if winds are gusty I'll go a little higher), turn final, if you are high full flaps, if not, stay in 2, if you are low add some power, once you have the field made cut power, go to full flaps, over the end start the flare very gently, you have way more elevator power than other planes, use it don't abuse it. If you have to do a go around, after you put the power in, get to flaps two, flaps three (full) don't add any lift but a LOT of drag. I usually land at a 2400' grass strip (what no center line) and you want to avoid the mud puddles and soft spots. The trim wheel is your friend. The plane does not like to be overweight and no fatties (I should talk) in the back seat. It will not carry four adults and full tanks, don't even try it.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Henry Ostman thanks ! I have the 150 - so I’m gonna keep my airplane as a two-person airplane just for safety and really enjoy it. I am have an upgrade planned this spring for a new transponder and a new attitude indicator in a new DG - i’ll keep everybody posted on how much it costs.😆😆😆

[@henryostman5740]

hey, I'm 77 and still flying. Oldest pilot at my little airport just retired, at 94, we'll miss him. He flew an original piper cub with 40 hp.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Henry Ostman that’s awesome!!!!

[@willierobison3666]

Yep, you're up and well to the left of the center-line from takeoff roll to lift off and climb out.

[@jimdickie7038]

Well done on the video Ted. I knew exactly what you were talking about, and I have never sat in that seat.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Jim Dickie I had no idea you were a follower! Thanks ! How is everything?

[@salimsopari]

Thanks for making this video!

[@NotTelling51]

I've never flown a cardinal but have flown the cutlass many times. My goal is to be in a Cardinal RG .. what a neat plane.

[@henryostman5740]

neat looking but beware that annual, the gear has more parts than a swiss watch, and they break. Join the Cardinal Club and read the maintenance comments, more than half are gear problems on the RG, other than that it is pretty near perfect.

[@bigsmitty01]

I have a 74 FG learned a W00 only plane I’ve ever flown moved it khwy and got spoiled with 5000 ft now have it at Hummel nice video

[@lostcreek163]

Would recommend you concentrate on spot landings and precision flying i.e. airspeed control!

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Both!!!

[@lostcreek163]

@@Over50andLearningToFly Yup, Both, don't be satisfied with just a smooth landing close to half way down runway. You mentioned not monitoring airspeed on final. Hmmm! P.S. Enjoy your videos.

[@Allan62T]

Great video. I subbed. I'm 56 and have had the bug since I was 2. I've flow in a Cessna 5 times and I flew in a glider once. I don't know if I want to go sport pilot or regular license (VFR). I enjoyed this. Very well explained. Terry Allan...

[@arkansaswookie]

I'm 52 and plugging away at my private pilots license. I made a pro's & con's list between the 2 license options, from start to finish of each, for what my eventual future aviation plans consist of, and what aircraft that I want to eventually buy - Maule is my first pick, having grown up with airplanes and my dad being a pilot and owning several different planes from my toddler-hood and beyond. His favorite plane was the Citabria Decathlon that he bough in 1975 and sold in 82. My good friend got his sport license when he was 55 and is totally content with his decision, which was primarily determined by his schedule with his family and career. Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you. There are a lot of excellent options for aircraft as well for the sport pilot. Cheers

[@thompsonjerry3412]

Early Cardinals have a different airfoil, same as a Lear 25. Best to hold pitch for 70 and use power for altitude, like landing a tail dragger. Wing on early Cardinals develops a lot of drag in a flair, so avoid it, use power.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Thompson Jerry Thanks that’s what I’m figuring out finally!

[@JohnMGreiner]

Taking my first intro flight in 177RG on Thursday with an instructor.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

John M. Greiner Make sure to make reservations for your second flight!

[@JohnMGreiner]

Over 50 and Learning To Fly! I could save some time and just buy the 177. Just kidding, funds not available for that, yet...

[@JohnMGreiner]

Back from the intro flight, that plane is made to move, not slow down. Getting it to 75-85 in pattern, I learned to be quick getting gear out, flaps to 30, and throttle to 18 as soon as possible, even on the downwind. Plenty of speed for base and final, even “full dirty”.

[@JohnMGreiner]

Flew it to Clovis NM KCVN and back to KTPL last weekend, around the storms in Lubbock. Learned a lot and had a great trip.

[@SteveWrightNZ]

First time I landed a cardinal it felt like it didnt have a stabilator... Just keep the airspeed up I reckon, and don't flare hard, early. Those gaps are called 'slots'.

[@danbaltizar6346]

Tough planes Cessna’s are to handle in cross winds on landing vs low wings, but other than that, great. Your always flying the plane when on the ground. From start to shut down. Use the yoke for stronger winds on the ground while taxiing, 10 knots and above. And to all you GA pilots out there, don’t turn on your wing tip strobes until taking the active and turn them off after exiting the active. Do you “after landing” check list. I see soooooo many Of you fail to retract flaps and turn off lights after landing. And lastly, study the area, the weather, ad all airports your going to so you don’t embarrass yourselves.

[@craigrathbun29]

Excellent video Ted. I've been looking for a good training video on how to land the Cardinal. The 68 I just bought has vortex generators as well the slotted stabilator but its been in the shop since I bought it, to get a fuel line leak fixed, so I can't wait to try your landing technique as soon as she comes out of the shop. I would like to see those landings from your wing or tail cameral so I could see the difference in the flair from the 172 I'm used to flying for my first 230 hours. My guess is its a bit flatter, thus the need for a bit more speed over the fence that you simply let her bleed off in ground effect?? But great video!!

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Craig Rathbun thanks ! I’ll see if I ca. Get another one in the next few days - if not it’ll be a couple of weeks - I am doing a mission flight to Belize next week so I’ll have some awesome programs coming up!

[@craigrathbun29]

I want to hear about the mission trip when you get back!!

[@aviatortrucker6285]

Did you fly the GPS in the heading mode? You didn’t say whether you switched it to track low or track high.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

To be honest, I can’t remember it’s been a while since I made this one. Thanks for watching!

[@rogerdickinson920]

Hi, just looking at the flap settings on the landing show plus your comments. Did you have full flaps when landing and were they still set on full when doing your roll out? It's been 30 yrs since I flew a Cardinal Rg or any other Cessna for that matter. But I think we were taught do retract the flaps on landing to reduce lift and put as much weight back on the wheels to add to braking. Also with flaps retracted, gusts had less of an effect.The issue I had was with starting the fuel injected engine. CFO told me to start lean and push in the mixture 'til it caught.The RG I flew had a wing leveler which saved my bacon 1 time coming out of Victoria bc in about '78. Another time I felt like I was dragging anchor then realized I'd forgotten to retract the gear.Anyway the Flying location sold the plane and the next owner crashed it landing long on a dirt strip hitting a fence.Still have my log book with the entries.Hmm, maybe I should go up for a check ride and take ground school again.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Roger Dickinson well - I don’t touch the controls until after I am off the runway .... that’s just a preference if mine - but I had hen all out 😆

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

You should get your license and start flying again don’t miss out time is ticking!!!!

[@rogerdickinson920]

License doesn't expire. Procedures plus nav gear obviously has. Trying to remember all that ASTC says when talking like an auctioneer is a big problem for me.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Roger Dickinson it’s just like another language keep on doing it and it comes with practice and one day it’ll click in!

[@georgejones7928]

Helpful

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Glad to hear that

[@robinj.9329]

I first learned in an old Taildragger, WITHOUT any stall warning horn. Later, flying newer aircraft with those devices, I found them NOTHING more then an annoying distraction! Just at a time when the "Pilot" doesn't need such useless distractions! I've always wondered about any "Pilot" that wouldn't KNOW when he/she was approaching that critical angle of attack. Obviously not someone I'd feel comfortable flying with. 😟

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Yeah and I got my tailwheel endorsement a couple weeks ago and I was in a Citabria and there was no stall warning horn on that plane but you can feel the flutter happen and you can feel the plane about to stall so it’s all I’ll seat of the pants thing, which I really loved, and it was so refreshing not to fly with my iPad! Thanks for watching!

[@hanssenjones]

Did you put the power flow exhaust on yourself? or was it on there when you purchased it? I'm considering getting it done because it seems to have a pretty slow climb rate especially on hot days. I have the 150hp engine and I just feel like it needs a little more power on takeoff. Your plane is very nice. I started in a 172 during training and came across the Cardinal and my brother and I decided to purchase it. Its very similar I'm still learning and enjoying every min of it. Hopefully I will have my private by the end of this year. I watched one of your other videos about landing and implemented some of your suggestions and it worked perfect. I've been struggling with landings last few weeks but had a few of my best ones this evening.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

That’s totally awesome congratulations on the cardinal! The power flow is on the plane when I bought it but I just put in a new core and I really noticed a difference with a new core in the power flow. My engine is currently being overhauled and it should be back in the plane in a couple of weeks so I’m anxious to see what the new engine and the power flow is going to do. Plus I also bought an engine monitor so I can really keep track of things. I’m glad everything’s Going well with the cardinal and yes you will have your license soon! Thanks for watching!

[@gdanskatv]

Quick tip becouse it looks a bit unstable. Dont you ever push the yoke during the landing. It can end badly. If your approach is stable and planed well you wont need that - which is dangerous. Plan to flare quite a distance before TDZ. You wont need to push on the yoke. Just wait and it will land itselves on main gear. Cardinal is not an airliner ;) Dont feel ofended, bro :) We all want just to be better, day by day everyday.

[@paperfly100]

I'm my opinion, I think that Cessna did not choose wisely 1997, they could assembly a version of 177 fixed gear with constant speed instead of 172R or 172S and the 177RG ou R182 instead of 182S. With a STC for IO-390 replacing IO-360 with dual magneto, a new propeller replacing any McCauley C200 prop.

[@DARTSim]

I like your check list. May I ask where you got it? I have a 71 Cardinal. N81RP Thank you! Erik

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

STAR CPR I made it - give me your email address and I can mail you the template it’s in PowerPoint and you can change whatever you like and print it out and get it laminated at Kinko’s and it’s really awesome!

[@DARTSim]

[e-mail] Thank you!

[@davesowards5096]

@@Over50andLearningToFly I am in the final phases of putting my 1968 177 back together (it was an insurance claim), and I hope to be flying it by the end of January. If I could get a copy of your checklist as well I would appreciate it. Nice video, I will make it a requirement for my students before they get checked out!

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Dave Sowards what’s your email address?

[@fsamec]

I am 70 years old and working on getting my ticket. I had the misfortune of being too trusting and a couple of flight instructors too advantage of that trust. When I started with my last instructor (a year ago) I had about 70 hour spread over a VERY long time (four decades, yes over 40 years). I had 33 hours of solo time without damaging any aircraft. I have completed all requirements to get my check ride. He never did sign me off. I fired him. I have always liked the looks of a Cardinal but never flown on, just 150s and 172s. I found a flight school that uses the Cardinal as trainers. I am thrilled! I want to buy one but getting my ticket first is more important. I want a 75' or newer. I will replace the entire panel with glass. I know I will spend nearly as much for the panel as I will for the aircraft. Make no sense monetarily but that is what I want. I have not settled on a brand but am leaning toward Garmin. I watch every video I can find with a Cardinal. I really enjoy your videos and am learning what I can. Fred

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Fred Samec thanks so much ! I know - I don’t care what it costs ... the enjoyment and sense of accomplishment is way more important! Thanks for watching !

[@WarriorsfanDubnation]

Fred did you get your ticket??

[@fsamec]

Ran out of money

[@fsamec]

I am about two months from starting back up. I am current with my physical and ground school. No problem retaking the ground test.

[@RootBeerGMT]

Fred Samec I’d take it easy on the glass. There’s aren’t all weather planes and you’ll be putting money in you might get back. A WAAS 430 and HSI or Aspen would be more than enough.

[@msgmathis]

In all the videos I’ve seen about this plane no one has mentioned how it accommodates tall people. Can someone 6foot 4 inch fit in the drivers seat?

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Yes - actually my old plane partner was 6-4 and he fit just fine !

[@msgmathis]

@@Over50andLearningToFly thank you for that!

[@DOLRED]

The wise owner of our club told me weeks ago. Hold back that yoke!! He was stressing the point: Doing so takes pressure and pounding off the nose wheel. Even for takeoff. I have yet to always follow his advice but I did notice one thing. Doing so upon landing slows the airplane down pronto. On takeoff it is a little tricky because you must watch airspeed and adjust accordingly.

[@spinf0rk]

Looks like yours is a fixed gear Cardinal. Are the speeds you mention miles per hour or knots?

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Dan Noé mph

[@skyboy1956]

air ducts? Really? If you're still having trouble, I'm available for flight training on the 177. Can travel to your location.

[@salimsopari]

where are you located? I am in Toronto Canada

[@randyrichmond3638]

The issue with the Cardinal is CG. In typical loading with 1 or 2 on board, the airplane is fairly nose heavy, simply as a result of the inherent design compromises. That requires more than normal stabilator displacement in the flare. If you load the rear baggage to max ( I use water jugs so I can empty them if I carry rear passengers) the CG is further aft and you need less stabilator displacement in the flare. Combine that with a standard flap setting of 20 degrees for landing ( full if absolutely necessary, but it rarely is) and you will have a delightful airplane to land. The Cardinal was initially designed with a conventional horizontal stab and elevator, but it did not have sufficient authority to control pitch in the flare, necessitating a stabilator. I have owned a Twin Comanche and Cherokee both of which have stabilators but neither requires slots because they aren't inherently nose heavy. Even the big Cherokees ( 6 and its derivatives) get by with a slotless stabilator, just a bigger one. The 210 is a similar design to the 177, but the wing is further forward and is longer helping to balance the weight of the big Continental up front.

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Absolutely, I keep my aircraft a 2 person aircraft because I have the 150HP engine,... and I am with you on the 20 degree flaps... lately I have been noticing anything more make controlling it a bit sloppy- Thanks for watching!

[@craigrathbun29]

Thanks Randy, I'll try that.

[@MegaMilleri]

No seatbelt?

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

It’s there - I don’t have any shoulder harnesses... it is a 1968 - will upgrade soon - thanks for watching!

[@sherrysetliff2502]

No rg?. That's a little different on that plane.

[@BURNETTWEALTHGROUP]

Hello I’m very new to Aviation and want a Cardinal for my first airplane. Would you suggest a new pilot starting in a Cardinal?

[@Over50andLearningToFly]

Absolutely the cardinal is my first plane! Thanks for watching!

[@paulmartos7730]

I got to fly a Cardinal while working on my Commercial license and loved it. It's not just a very pretty airplane but a delight to fly. Sadly, the flight school sold it and I moved on to the 200 HP Piper Arrow. That's a fine airplane but I always missed that Cardinal.

[@henryostman5740]

I have a '71 'B' Cardinal, more power/constant speed prop, I have owned her for over 30 years, I fly off a grass strip and most of my landing have been on grass as a result, she has always been hangered on my watch. You are right, Cardinals like their namesake like to fly, and the strutless wing makes that bearable on bouncy days (my previous plane was a 182, a flying hd pickup truck). A lot of stuff that is taught isn't quite true, just because you can put the flaps down at 120 mph doesn't mean you should. Slow down! Get down to 90 in the pattern and when you put the flaps down you'll be doing 80. I can fly the plane in slo flite at 55 and me and my instructor are over 500#s plus fuel. Keep the pattern turns shallow, flaps one notch in pattern, two on base, and put third in when runway is made or you're way too high (she thinks she is a glider and loves thermals), if you are really too high, go around, she is slippery and won't bleed off speed.