This job was deleted from the game | FFXIV History: Summoner

[@Larryzaur]

Hey guys, clarification: Arcanist, SMN and SCH were all new to ARR, they combined them to save time creating only one class instead of 2 👍 Get 10% off Gamer Supps with code LARRYZAUR ► gamersupps.gg/larryzaur

[@toxicfem69]

i actually like this garbage so i'll try to remember to use your code when i re-up lol

[@YUXKE]

Blue Mage is the DoT job now

[@kamiya4700]

I miss SMN’s dots so much 🥲

[@toxicfem69]

...or not? guess you dont want me to use your code next time. if youtube removed my comment and not you tell them they owe you a sale then

[@ChristianGroff-c1q]

The Fire School of Wizard101: *scowls* "You leave the DOTs to our game, you f'king noobs." XD

[@Tardisntimbits]

I miss having my chimkin nugget save dungeon parties when the tank died. I miss you, tanky nuggie...

[@Miyao05]

GOD SAME....

[@EnbySloth]

I ones used tanky nuggie to tank a level 50 dungeon boss while we waited for a new tank to join 🥹 I was so proud of tanky nuggie

[@Tardisntimbits]

@@EnbySloth Tanky nuggie was a beast!

[@gandorokkorodnag9028]

Same I’ve actually been kicked because my titan was a better tank than the tank that kept dying….

[@David_Phoenix23]

I remember doing that. Having the choice, swift cast summon titan egi or swift cast raise tank. I'd usually summon titan and let the healer raise the tank while I picked up agro.

[@inoob26]

Larry forgot about the part of history where the Summoner dong grows increasingly larger and then it didn't

[@Larryzaur]

Stormblood job gear I’m looking at u

[@rallivsalado6806]

We were robbed

[@ReksNuadiah]

I cry still

[@Dewkeeper]

Never forget Emet spooky ancient mage form had a giant head dong. We are the true inheritors of the ancients.

[@Hyskaris]

"don't pull yet" "why" "aetherflow cd, wait 30 more sec"

[@Larryzaur]

Core memory unlocked

[@lazyarcanist7095]

Omg I remember when the tank used their big uh-oh button and everyone would have to wait before pull for it to come off cd

[@Cafinebiased]

To this day "1 min for aetherflow pls" is my message in the FC profile XD

[@UnD34DZealot]

lol it was a good forced break between wipes to breath.

[@KuroFaust]

I have better memory "don't use shiftcast" "Why?!?" "bc i will be death in 10sec..." 🤣 many healers still don't get, how to rise ur coprse tank in best way and don't to risk to wipe party in same time😉

[@earthwarren6143]

I mean, Garuda deciding not to do what you want does sound *very* much in character for her.

[@KZorander]

BIIIIIG Benedikta energy lol

[@TheTendouSouji87]

@@KZorandernot that Garuda, this one even when they used her in Endwalker to power something she wasn’t into it until a certain stormbringer avatar was like let’s us revel. Nothing to do with Yoshi-P’s other FF lol

[@sleepyj222]

"GARUDA, USE CONTAGION" "when? Now?"

[@Milkjiest]

she just like me frfr...

[@katarh]

Matches the Eos/Selene refusal to heal: "Sorry, can't heal that guy, he's too far away tee hee"

[@ReksNuadiah]

With how much snappier 'pets' react to things now, it just makes me pine for the older class but represented as things are _now_

[@FrozenSolid90]

Summoner and Astrologian The two horsemen of "We have no fucking idea what to do with this Job".

[@LeicaFleury]

I'd like to add BRD and MCN to that list.

[@FrozenSolid90]

@@LeicaFleury Eh, BRD has kinda stayed the same since Stormblood and MCH since Shadowbringers and only getting new stuff added onto them.

[@Zytyx13]

Gotta remember Dark Knight and Scholar. drk becomes less of a job every expansion lol and sch, while consistently strong, just doesn't feel cohesive anymore

[@corvoyami3192]

Viper too dw

[@halapenopepper]

Put Dark Knight in there too, had all of its unique mechanics stripped away in lieu of making it a worse version of warrior that can't do anything warrior does but 'it was okay because TBN is good' except TBN is only kinda okay and especially doesn't compete with Bloodwhetting, Holy Sheltron or Heart of Corundum. Enhanced Unmend is still crazy lmao

[@shadcroly]

I very much remember Titan tanking Ramuh EX. The idea was that Titan took less damage from Ramuh's attacks because the devs wanted to make sure your pets could actually survive boss mechanics. It was very silly, thought I do also miss Titan being able to take overworld enemies for me.

[@Draylin41]

It worked so well on Ramuh cause even his auto attacks were aoe which SMN pets had reduced damage against. Most other bosses hit the tanks with single target strikes so Titan Egi would die in just a couple hits against them.

[@TurboNemesis]

Almost as silly as the 1 WAR, 7 SCH strat from back when Lustrate was a percentage heal

[@arsenicbug1537]

Everyone saying they don’t miss dots didn’t deserve them.

[@rm2kmidi]

They were the ones that never cast them lol

[@corvoyami3192]

People saying they miss "Summoner"(it didn't use to summon anything) are just lying

[@shinobirecords2018]

You can flip that argument in so many ways it's not even funny

[@esko911]

probably the same people that died to overworld mobs or the easiest dungeons in the game lol

[@DonBeverage-x3e]

@@corvoyami3192 Wrong.

[@tatersalad76]

Ngl I miss all the DoTs on Scholar a little more than all the DoTs lost from Summoner. Still have entire cross-hotbars filled with dead skills as my "job graveyard" Also the audacity of Yoshi P's team to take Shadow Flare from us and give it to Hades for his trial

[@Zanekael]

God yes. I enjoy current SCH, but damn do I miss Stormblood's take. Give me back Leeches damn you!!

[@PervertedNovaxc3]

Same here. Scholar has never felt quite as fun as it did back in HW and SB for me

[@Sketchblopp]

You can still see Shadow Flare when you have an arcanist in your GC squadron and run a dungeon with them. Wild.

[@Tacts0317]

Sch dots made sense. Being able to throw them out between shields to assist with DPS

[@Sketchblopp]

@@Tacts0317 Agreed. SCH dots are imo really adding to this "field tactician" kind of identity the job is supposed to have in theory. More SCH dots pls!

[@Eeehnamesarehard]

I miss job quests, smn's could have been unlocking past summons. A Ramuh, Shiva, leviathan rotation into Alex or bismark would have been sweet. There are so many ways to di it, and make it make sense.

[@iantaakalla8180]

I really would have liked a summoner version of Lakshmi where you could inflict statuses and then upon inflicting status, deal heavier damage based on whether they are inflicted with any status, with two or more statuses, with a specific status, or even if the person lacks a status. You could both deal heavy damage and alter the behavior of the boss or the FATE enemy. That would have been cool and would have made a really hard jack of all trades sort of character where you can switch modes on how you attack (including status affliction).

[@buzzdx]

was my big hope for dt to have new summons, pretty disappointing we just got a baha reskin.

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

they actually had you try summon Ramuh in the class quests, but the explanation was basically you were way to weak to summon him. I guess you are still too weak.

[@danielelbow]

i was really hoping for a quest to explain what solar bahamut actually is

[@SorasShadow1]

i wish we at least got capstone job quests, i can totally understand and agree that doing a x2 x5 x7 x0 quest per job is....a lot, especially since square enix higher ups refuse to re-invest into xiv, but there's absolutely still stories with these jobs dammit where the hell is x'rhun tia is he ok

[@Zytyx13]

I miss back when sch and smn were dot mages with different focuses. I know it was janky but it was my janky dammit!

[@cattysplat]

Yep scholar dots got neutered too.

[@TurboNemesis]

I know people dont want to hear it, but i miss Cleric Stance. I liked it when there was a rhythm to scholar of popping in and out of dps stance.

[@thebrave9971]

I can only imagine the severe whiplash of joining the game back in ShadowBringers, fall in love with summoner, and then the severe whiplash of the job getting fully changed in EndWalker and lose interest in the job because of losing the identity. ...Oh wait, that was me

[@Castersvarog]

God that’s just like me. I miss ShB Summoner. I miss it so much, I miss when my pets actually did more then just stand there staring off into space. I know the new SMN is played a lot, but damn it’s just not able to come close to the fun I had with ShB SMN

[@ThewOrldIssqUare]

Sort of off topic, but I miss Stormblood AST. Another job that changes with every expansion. 💀

[@marzocchi705]

Me too! and then I had no job at 80 to play end walker so I had to continue to play smn as i cba levelling another job.

[@Choveck]

Yeah me

[@petrus9067]

Also having joined in shb but i didn't play a lot of summoner, but its weird knowing the expac i joined on is considered history now... i still remember how we had egi assaults, fester based on dots, tri disaster, ruin 3 etc

[@Skyztamer]

Stormblood era imo was the peak design for Summoner and Scholar; especially on scholar I miss my DoTs. I've had to get my DoT spam fix in GW2; although in that game any combat profession can focus on DoTs or strike damage depending on whatever build you're going for.

[@moosecannibal8224]

Yeah that's literally the reason why I can't get into GW2... Like sure, the classes aren't "all the same", but there's no real class identity when everyone is everything. Definitely a well made game compared to a lot of other MMOs, but also definitely not my cup of tea.

[@Skyztamer]

@@moosecannibal8224 I like how much more responsive the combat is in GW2 over FF14. Although the combat in FF14 is better balanced. Both games didn't click with me right away. FF14 took me two tries and GW2 took me like four. Although to be fair with GW2, I wasn't really into PC gaming yet and FF14 was the best MMO available on PS4 with ESO as a close contender.

[@MassDe5truction]

The kids will never understand the joy of mass dotting and tanking a dungeon with Titan when your tank dies or leaves, or the pain of it dying and having to resummon. And then having an intense but satisfying rotation. Now we just play with Lego.

[@1337penguinman]

I used to main a Warlock in WoW, and this all sounds very familiar.

[@ArcheologistLlama]

"SMN is a new job every expansion" As an AST main, I feel your pain.

[@Haxaan.Shivar]

I feel this deep in my soul 😢. While the cards in Storm blood weren't "optimal" using strategy to figure out what to do with your cards on the fly was half the fun. I miss Royal Road and Time Dilation every day.

[@UmbraWeiss]

I quit AST the first time after they reworked it... never looked back, and it's still bad.

[@MichaelM2K23]

A new job every expansion… Except Dawntrail 😒😒😒

[@SkepticalChris]

I miss the classic pet class. It was fun using a Titan-EGI to occasionally off tank when you had a bad healer-tank combo that couldn't keep themselves running. And also doing fates was nice with a healing chocobo and a Titan- tank going around doing all the work for you.

[@Sketchblopp]

It's funny how you still have one or two SMN job quests who rely on you having a tank. I had to reskill my chocobo into a tank chocobo eventually because the duty expected me to stand still and cast ruin or whatever instead of kiting the boss and maybe get a spell through once or twice and not get interrupted by the boss hitting you. Or.. killing you. xD

[@SkepticalChris]

@@Sketchblopp ya you can still do the opposite, have a tanking chocobo, or even a DPS chocobo dealing with mobs and your scholar fairy autohealing it, while you AFK

[@Sketchblopp]

@@SkepticalChris I think we're talking about different quests here. I mean a SMN quest in Mor Dhona, so no fairy. :)

[@KatekaYuka]

i still remember when i was a baby sprout between shadowbringers and endwalker, arcanist was my 2nd job i took to check it out, and when we moved to endwalker, i didn't watch any job updates, my honest reaction was "wait where my bio, why carbuncle is not attacking"

[@SynodicScribe]

Job identity kinda got lost in the sauce over the years. lol

[@Larryzaur]

I think this is what I miss most about FFXIV job design. They didn't just feel different, they did accomplished different goals too. I suppose it's tough with so many more jobs to make them distinct though.

[@SynodicScribe]

@@Larryzaur I know what you mean. It pains me as the lore guy to know exactly what these jobs should be capable of, and we barely get a fraction of that in gameplay. Of course, no gameplay could ever be 1 to 1 with the lore. But man we're missing out on a lot of cool stuff.

[@SpaceElvisInc]

My job is 1 2 3 : )

[@XylessBrawl]

Going back to Astrologian after being away from it since Stormblood, I feel like it's surprisingly retained a lot of its identity and uniqueness. Like yeah, the cards aren't random anymore, but the old card system just led to fishing for Balance most of the time, so I feel like the current system is a happy middle ground. It feels so different from the other healers though.

[@SpaceElvisInc]

@@XylessBrawl they actually made it more like stromblood astro again literally this expansion

[@dizz6340]

I still remember when Scholar got stripped of everything. I still consider it one of the worst decisions they've ever made.

[@Swimdud]

I joined the game for Summoner being a pet job. Give me my job back YoshiP

[@fanazador]

As a new player, it's really fun to watch this kind of video from veteran and see how the game changes over time. Thanks for making these.

[@lukastreurnich4340]

I didn't watch the Endwalker Job Trailer, so I had the biggest wiplash when I went on Summoner and saw that everything was different. I thought I was having the most surreal dream in my life. And belts, don't know how I feel about them being gone.

[@Larryzaur]

oh wow that would have been such a wild experience!

[@cameronwilsey9334]

I still wish they would have made a gear set made of salvaged belts. Like Lulu's dress from FFX

[@nowwithlime]

You know they could make 2 new entire jobs based on what they removed and changed on SMN

[@mycrodexmushrooms]

And they probably will.

[@megawaffle612]

The easiest way to say it is “I don’t miss old summoner but I miss the ideas of what it could have been”.

[@dootdootington386]

I liked the old one. Hopefully we do get a proper dot class one day. After the spaghett code is corrected

[@InnocentGuillotine]

Yeah, I want a dot class to return but the way it was implemented in old Summoner always sounded kind of frustrating to deal with, especially with how pet AI is so jank even with reworking that they're making the new Pet JobTM a limited job.

[@Laterose15]

​@@dootdootington386 bold of you to think that's happening anytime soon. They'd need to practically rebuild the game.

[@edwardking9359]

​@@dootdootington386That's never going to be fully fixed. It's practically baked into the engine at this point.

[@Leap623]

Honestly Shadowbringers summoner is probably my favorite after these years, it's a good middle ground. We still had the fun little bits of the kit to optimize and play around with, pet actions being GCD's is still a great idea to make the job actually revolve around commanding your summons, maybe the only thing I'd change is giving us current Bahamut where he actually sits still and attacks instead of prioritizing movement to follow you if you have to move.

[@skeith452]

They didn't just "tied it off to another class" though. Arcanist was also new to 2.0. So putting two jobs on the same class was a conscious decision from the start.

[@izcube8971]

I love how Sage essentially got Bane + Miasma 2 as a skill and very limited range (Eukrasian Dyskrasia)

[@Larryzaur]

AH yes that's right, it was more of needing to create both SMN and SCH, so doing it off of one class instead of creating 2 new ones. Thanks for the clarification!

[@corvus9289]

That doesn't mean it was a *good* decision

[@Azhrei2000]

I like them being tied... I love my summoner but I can't stand scholar lol... Well I don't have to level scholar😂

[@Professor_Utonium_]

​@@LarryzaurMake a new video

[@arcanecoalition7583]

Started playing in Shb and loved the complexity of Smn with dots and different summons. EW came out, and I stopped playing Smn.

[@marcoklepsky]

once again as a fellow summoner player for like 10 years, we've got equal qualification here... here's a fun fact! i have a macro with the icon for bio that just puts /echo "please.... i miss her" in my chat 14 times

[@mooleemooplays]

As someone who has also been a SMN main since it came to us in ARR. I also miss shadowflare and my dots... I just wish SMN had the potency increases it deserves. Should never be in the bottom 5 of lowest DPS ever.

[@crayyonnyadrav4055]

And most of the mobs had a really good way to debuff all of your DoT dmg: they died.

[@Azeur]

Summoner for me is the poster boy of everything I miss with "older" FFXIV. There were definitely bad times, and stupid yank - but there was a charm and joy to all that nonsense. I still have the keeper's hymn on my original main character, somethings you just don't get rid of. There's so much gone that I used to love with FFXIV, like things actually be dangerous, having funny ways of dealing with it (Titan-egi for tanking etc) the stupid things you could get up to with cross-class skills, that there actually was challenges in regular content beyond "can my party connect 2 brain cells?". Though somethings were definitely too much of a hurdle for the "main" audience... So many healers who refused to understand how Cleric Stance actually worked, and tried healing with it... I liked how crafters actually felt special, and someone to be respected - nowadays it's as easy as doing an expert dungeon. Dungeons felt more interesting as well, with diverging paths for extra exp and loot. Though that's definitely something that could have been improved upon while they still existed, and now it's just a "straight corridor" that you pull everything in till you hit a wall. I miss enemies having abilities beyond auto-attack and the occasional AoE. I just miss when the world actually felt worth exploring and provided a challenge. It actually saddens me when I see how much of a joke instance duties are most of the time, and S rank hunting targets really need to scale with the amount of people, because they are such a non-threat that just instantly die like a low level training dummy. Feels like the only challenges remaining in the game are in end-game raiding and solo runs in deep dungeons, everything else is a joke or solved.

[@undvined]

More than anything I wish the overworld wasn't almost completely redundant now. Hunts and maps are the only things you are there for (and tribal quests, if you even want to count those).

[@BlakeAter]

"Dungeons felt more interesting as well, with diverging paths for extra exp and loot. Though that's definitely something that could have been improved upon while they still existed, and now it's just a "straight corridor" that you pull everything in till you hit a wall." Maybe "fellowship" might be up your ally, devs there are mentioning they designed the game to bring back the classic feel of MMO dungeon running. Tried the beta and disliked the concept though but might be able to "sway" it to a polished game while it's in it's infancy stages.

[@Tessa_Ru]

Gathering, too. It used to be complicated/interesting enough that it could be your whole thing, and big name crafters would basically employ high-level gatherers to make end game crafting easier. Now it just feels like an extension of crafting. You can't make any gil at it, it doesn't take time or effort to any degree that it used to. And the worst part is that (like with all the others), people just tell you to shut up because No One Liked It Anyway. ME, I liked it! It was fun! All these things they changed for people who hated them, left behind the people who unironically loved them. Joke's on me, I was a gatherer main AND a summoner. 😂🥲

[@SleepyOmel]

I miss 3.0 everyday, i wish i could go back and love it more than i did

[@ChimerahHanssen]

Same

[@iantaakalla8180]

I wonder what FFXIV would have been like if Living Liquid (Savage) was actually good enough to progress through and endgame content was not filtered through that.

[@C.Cer.]

You had me at " Copium flavor ".... My Hissatsu: Kaiten.... Pray return.... to the Hotbar =n=; mhm

[@cattysplat]

Double finisher everytime with guaranteed crit kinda makes up for it...almost.

[@C.Cer.]

@@cattysplat Yay. I am not a Fan of Guaranteed Crits? But Kaiten could have given Guaranteed Crits, thus its removal to give us Guaranteed Crits in EW 6.1 Pre-Double Finisher implementation at 7.0 DT... didn't make sense for me... Now that I crit everytime? it feels like I never Crit so to me its a w/e change :/ mhm

[@scettzvill]

on a side note, you can still get/use the old Egi looks for your carbuncle by using the following macro's /petglamour "carbuncle" "titan-egi" /ac "summon carbuncle" /petglamour "carbuncle" "ifrit-egi" /ac "summon carbuncle" /petglamour "carbuncle" "garuda-egi" /ac "summon carbuncle" they all act the same now, but at least they still look like the old Egi.

[@LinkHylia]

You can also do the same for the three carbuncle colors too I believe

[@XanVT]

I miss my pets. I miss my dots. I miss every GCD that piano of a job played. I don't want to be in the purgatory of hope and cope, just waiting for a change. Stormblood lives in my heart and memories. RIP you glorious jank of a mess... I always loved you because you were special.

[@davidjonsson9549]

Having followed you since HW, seeing clips of old videos took me way back. At the time it came out I had yours and Draks reaction to the SB actions trailer living rent free in my head. I also remember the pet swap opener.

[@c_huvaknunh9138]

OMG, I remember "The Nature's Hymn" thing too. If you were a tank that was starting a new raid, week one, you'd add more VIT and less STR so you can survive the raid before you got the raid drops. (if you got them that is) As you gradually got better gear, and competently knew the fight, you can slowly bring back STR stats points and STR accessories. (Yeah, we did the same shit with accessories back then too)

[@Draylin41]

I miss when accessories weren't locked to specific jobs. Now I get to collect multiple versions of the same accessories if I want to use them for glam 😒

[@Astrumplayez]

Old summoner was best summoner. even with the spaghetti code.

[@xion0713]

Absolutely spaghetti code and all it was a charmer of a job feel its loss heavily

[@blackh9604]

I seriously love this style of video, especially how you include older footage!!

[@Redge.]

Dots + bane was so much fun. New Summoner's concept is better, but the gameplay has no challenge.

[@Draylin41]

I'm of the opinion that if they not gonna have a dot caster anymore they should at least put a Bane equivalent on Bard so they can open with just one global and for reapplying after long phase transitions.

[@Arvemis]

I miss old summoner so much. It was janky but it was my beloved little janky job. I enjoyed it so much in shadowbringers

[@GEMINIVice1]

Loved Summoner in Shadowbringers and prior xpacs. Started a 2nd character for the main purpose of focusing on learning how to play it properly when you had to both manage pets and DoTs. It was the hardest caster to learn and play in those days imo. Then it got neutered into the unofficial physical ranged dps it currently is. Yoshi and co. introduced a new foundation for it in EndWalker….but really didn’t build upon it in the follow up xpac. Just homogenized and seemingly put it into a category of being another easy job that is now charged ‘utility/mobility taxes’ when determining if the job should be able to achieve the same levels on dmg output it had in xpacs prior to its rework. Braindead for the smooth brain.

[@WeskAlber]

I knew no summoner players who acted like they *liked* playing summoner. Always came with so many complaints about every part of the job. From my view, a big part of why they started to get rid of so many dots is what we're seeing with Ultimates now, the buff/debuff cap. In 24 mans, you were all but guaranteed to lose some of your buffs and such. At the time, we understood it as 30 visible slots, and 30 invisible slots. So at best, they got lost in the 31-60 slot and did get applied, but was invisible. Nowadays we see buff/debuff cap hitting us because a lot of debuffs became buffs on us. You can now dodge your Leylines cast. We swung so far into the other direction we're seeing an even worse situation. With how many buffs/debuffs/etc gone now, we might be okay to see a DoT job return. But the moment you get three or four of them in one 24man (random parties after all) you're going to see some people suffering with invisible debuffs. We likely won't, because the priority of removing DoTs changed at some point, and now it just seems like the team hates DoTs existing.

[@vinsoni10]

Gib warlock-like job pls

[@Larryzaur]

You see, it requires a sixth sense to keep track of your dots with your inner clock

[@oddnightsky1367]

please square add a green mage job. it'd be so funny

[@cameronwilsey9334]

You know there's a setting to have your debuffs appear first in the list, right? Don't know how long it's been a thing though

[@WeskAlber]

@@cameronwilsey9334 Doesn't work if the buff is invisible.

[@daveholechko874]

I remember coming into the game around summer 2021 and I remember the dots and such and when you could change your pet stance to tank, healer, dps. Me being an idiot and not understanding the gearing system for ff14 allowing your pet to become a tank helped me with the msq so much

[@raarsi-dar]

I too remember the olden days of the job of Theseus, including Fester doing damage based on how many dots you had on the target. While I do miss having a dot job, I definitely don't miss the old summoner.

[@FanOfAwesomeness]

I miss my dots, Tails. I miss them a lot.

[@christianlabrador2826]

I've always thought Summoner could have been so much more (don't get me wrong I'm loving this current iteration of the job) if they went for the route of summon combinations. Something like how Yuna plays in Dissidia Duodecim where she has different attacks with different ranges and they even combo off one another in her EX mode. Summoner could have a stronger identity if they were able to combine spells or have more than one of them active at the same time. Heck even being able to summon something like Raktapaksa would be pretty cool imo.

[@Getsugaru]

There are many things Old Summoner did that I still miss to this day. Stormblood Summoner was glorious. I miss the pet mechanics especially; now Carbuncle is just a raise-tax if something goes wrong, since if you don't resummon Carbuncle after getting raised, your kit no longer functions _at all._ And Carbuncle doesn't do anything otherwise. So sad...

[@1337penguinman]

Hey now, that shield is helpful...

[@RetroNutcase]

God I miss DOT Summoner. It was a juggling act, but I enjoyed it...Especially the satisfaction of a well executed Bane.

[@ookazzii]

hitting shadowflare and bane on a big dungeon pull was peak

[@Incubookie]

Ive always wanted a dot job, I loved the mechanics of arcanist when I started playing and I was sad that those weren't kept or enhanced in their evolved jobs

[@Yuri98]

I don't miss old SMN. I do miss good old green-DPS Scholar tho, we inherited all of their DoTs and cool stuff like Shadow Flare! Yay shared class! Now Sage is the new cool green-DPS job and we're left with nothing. WE CAN'T EVEN FLY, DAMN IT!

[@BoltFraction]

After adopting Summoner as a first job and spending years (YEARS!) maining it, playing SMN after the rework felt like going from playing galaxy-brain 4D chess to a caveman smashing two rocks together. It gutted everything I loved about the job, and that discontent slowly spread to the rest of the game, leading me to finally unsubscribe after Endwalker. RIP my precious little Ruby and Topaz carbies. I'll never forget you.

[@zenaovernize]

i really miss ARR summoner. it was my very first class i played

[@HyperFerret93]

I have two fond memories of old SMN. One was when Eureka was new and I pulled too much, so I summoned Titan-egi to save me as I ran away. And it worked. The other memory was in Bozja, during one of the solo duels. I was doing the fight correctly, then messed up at the last second. I got launched into the air and knew I was going to die upon landing. HOWEVER, during my flight, Ifrit-egi auto attacked and killed the boss and it still counted as a win for me, even though I still did indeed die upon landing. The people watching were flabbergasted hahahaha Sadly, you can't do either of those things anymore. But I will remember.

[@XXLightwindXX]

so fun fact, i actually stopped playing ffxiv after finishing edw msq because the smn changes upset me so much. i didn't play for nearly 2 years! i was a smn main since 2.0. when i ended up coming back, the idea of playing my old main and playing as a smn made me so sad, i ended up leveling an entirely different character from the ground up... now i'm a war main, LOL!

[@KynElwynn]

I started this game in the HW to ShB time period, and as a World of Warcraft player I *got* Summoner. "Oh, it's Warlock. You have DoTs and a pet". Now I dunno what it is any more, I just push whatever lights up

[@TeriyakiEmpire]

SHB DOT SMN used to be so fun to play and did so much dmg when done right

[@darkmoonwarrior2813]

I do like how new summoner makes more use of the summons, i feel like best possible timeline summon is a mix of new and old.

[@xion0713]

I wish we could have them act more like pets like old summoner instead of instant spells before dissapearing but keep things like Enkindle/Aetherflow and the Trance mechnic

[@orpheustelos23]

I adore the FFXIV design philosophy of reworking jobs for the people who didnt play them or care about them completely shafting those who did. It's my favorite.

[@cattysplat]

Yep, RIP monk this expansion.

[@xion0713]

Man this is so real it hurts...

[@kaltstrahl]

i miss stormblood summoner 😭 would love to see a video like this about astrologian!

[@Osteichthyes]

I wouldn't mind old SMN style back....just....not SMN. It never really felt like SMN, or at least, nothing compared to FFXI's SMN (still the peak....with a lot of jank). A new job with themes actually revolve around poisons and miasmas and....bio's.

[@GoldDustWoahman]

Green Mage. Literally Green Mage.

[@Castersvarog]

Tbh if they took ShB SMN and fine tune the smaller issues, like gaining Further Ruin when Egi assault is used instead of when the pet attacked, and swapped the DoTs for the Gemshine mechanic they could have made an excellent SMN.

[@IosLocarth]

​@@GoldDustWoahman it's not? Green Mage has literally only been in one game and it's more of support spells like protect and shell and what not. Yeah it has ailments like Blind and Silence, so maybe it could have poison, but that's a huge stretch. Green Mage is literally just all of the support and debuff spells that White Mage and black mage normally get

[@GoldDustWoahman]

@@IosLocarth I don't know why I put it under green magic. Looked at my license board in 12 and youre right. I have failed.

[@IosLocarth]

@@GoldDustWoahman I'm not going to lie I had to go and double-check what spells green Mage even had (because they're so specific) to make sure that they didn't even have any poison spells. It kinda proves my point of "why are so many people so obsessed with this job, it's super specific and literally only in one game"

[@jonathangille8643]

Tank summoner was awesome, back then you could equip the tank accessories and the stats would apply to said pet to. Sustain healing the pet based on a % of its hp each tick as well made it work. Lets not forget about the Summoner burn groups for Castrium (x8 Summoner runs was funny to do). Also Summoner had 5 dots (Ifrits Astral Flow Inferno would do big damage and apply a dot over time and was Aoe!)

[@marqusiq5597]

I always missed shadow flare 😭

[@grandlancer]

Leviathan, Ramuh and, Odin are definitely missing from our summon list. I only got to experience the Shb version of old summoner but, I miss the DoTs. As someone who plays solo a lot, it was fun being able to DoT something then kite with Ruin 2 and to be able to save 4 stacks of Ruin 4.

[@Fiishe]

I started in EW 6.2 and Summoner was my second job and I could feel that there was something missing when leveling from 1-50 and after learning of all the crap Summoner has gone through I can tell why. FFXIV is one of the games where people remember the old days but are glad we're past that because the people who played ARR-StB Summoner probably have arthritis now

[@xion0713]

Hey i take my arthritis willingly and with pride dammit!

[@Skull.Hazard]

For the first time since I started playing back in 3.3, I'm actually using Summoner to level up instead of Scholar (Scholar was my first healer job so it was just easier to level what with healer queues and all), and as Summoner hasn't changed from Endwalker, I finally understood why so many 5.x Dancer mains had swapped over to Summoner in 6.x. Certainly not the piano job I've come to expect watching Larry over the years, but still pretty fun overall.

[@stevemitchell4663]

i would love a dot mage job, call it sorcerer or something.

[@QuietLunacy]

Shadowbringers SMN was amazing. It actually had a level of complexity that actually kept me interested in the game. Same with AST. Damn shame what they did to them.

[@oEXTRA]

The dots were cool but personally I prefer actually summoning. It just needs more summons and complexity. Definitely didn't need solar Bahamut lol.

[@MeowzingerZ]

Yeah, you touch on it at the end, and if anything, this just makes me more excited for Beastmaster: it would be pretty interesting if they used that as a way to revisit the whole pet based/commanding class, especially the "if you do an attack/skill your pet does something". Especially didn't know about the "summons being able to serve as tank", something like that letting Beastmasters "role swap" like blue mages based on the monster you bring along would be fascinating

[@deeps6979]

Can't say I miss DoTs on Summoner. Summon a big honkin' dragon, the iconic Bahamut, for its big spicy attack, and . . . Had all the impact of a summer breeze. Felt bad. SMN damage was definitely nerfed around the idea of DoTs and tinker-toy auto attacks, so it never got decent burst. What I do miss is Shadowflare, especially on Scholar. AoE field damage AND damage mitigation! But nope, can't have that kind of fun, especially on a healer.

[@thomasklein9823]

Gods do I miss SCH shadowflare

[@friendlygiant1507]

I miss the days when the game wasn't overrun by people in need of a therapist and a father figure.😔

[@Kharzein]

This ☝🏼👌🏼

[@Sandnite]

I still have some of those Keeper Hymns on my retainer as I typically did dungeons/raids as Scholar and did quests with Summoner. So I was used to changing attributes often.

[@Tomoka51]

I would love to see them add Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva as gem summons, maybe tie them to Solar Bahamut. I'd also love for a new pet job but I have a strong feeling they're going to throw Beastmaster at us and then never touch pets again which makes me sad but hey, it is what it is.

[@rexcyjones9416]

SMN had so much potential to become more than what BRD can offer for the party, but Devs seemed to gave up after cooking Viper and Picto. Imagine having more sets of primals corresponding to each Expansion and can equip and re-equip them that suits the fight and party utility.

[@Daniel-qt5ib]

I started as Summoner back in ARR but fell off it shortly after unlocking it when I realized that it was all about dots and not... summoning :S Endwalker Summoner was what I always wanted Summoner to be in the first place, so personally I'm a lot happier with it now, but at the same time it could do with being a bit more... mentally demanding to play. Not saying that there's no place for a dot-management class, but I never understood why Summoner had been assigned to that.

[@JungKooksTwin]

100% this. i was the same way, chose SMN in arr as my first class and quickly switched when i found out it was all about dots... i was so confused, "where the fuk are my summons for SMN?" EW SMN is amazing now, easy and kinda brain dead? yah sure but not ever class needs to by black mage level. Would love to see a green mage class come in thats all about dots tho.

[@petrus9067]

To be fair bard was also a lot more focused on dots back then

[@大-g4b5]

I'm still thinking about how we could have had Green Mage this expansion, which they could re flavor into being a dot class and it would have fit in well with the New World aesthetic.

[@linhilde]

"You look at Summoner today and there are none of those." -- Yeah, it feels like Summoner really is just half a job now. "If I keep talking about this you're gonna miss Old Summoner?" -- Bruh I've only been playing the game for two years and I miss what the game was before I got to play it. Why is it that every time I get a glimpse back to what was FFXIV, I'm always left in madness that the devs really removed all this cool, complex, engaging, interesting, expressive stuff in favor of egregious linearity and simplification? I look at Au Ra concept art and I'm like, "wow, the Japanese community really said NO to this and said 'no make them baby and giant' uwu!" Guh.

[@autisonm]

I miss ShB Summoner. It's the first job I played to lvl 50 before switching to SAM.

[@SiopeR]

I hate DOT classes in FF, game is already slow af ;D new summoner with animations is a chefs kiss

[@LeicaFleury]

And I'll bet you don't play MNK because you can't keep up the pace.

[@elinciacroix9687]

This brought back so many memories, even things about SMN that I simply forgot over the years thanks to all the changes to the job LOL I love this so much, nobody else will ever understand our smn as much as you do!!

[@SuperIchi]

I played a little bit of Summoner before the rework and I absolutely don't miss it

[@Tessa_Ru]

Yeah, ff devs do this "Fun" thing where they change classes for the people who hate them, and not for the people who already play them.

[@orpheustelos23]

Well I played a lot of it before the rework and absolutely do.

[@m0fn668]

Played SMN during ARR becasue it was so similar to what the WoW Warlock played like (my main class back then) but with the Final Fantasy flair on top. I don't really miss it as a DPS but the Scholar part of the job really felt right using poisons to deal damage instead of the weird laser lightshow they do these days... I miss switching Cleric Stance to have my Bane and Miasma ticking away then switch back to heal while the DoTs snapshotted to the previous stance... it was a dance and a damn good one.

[@ValkyrieFryea]

Yeah it was spaghetti code but damn do I miss the old Summoner. It had it's charm and made it certainly unique. I shed tears for what was; they could have just tweaked, cleaned, buffed it here and there to make it golden and better. Titan was my favorite answer to Tanks that were throwing hissy fits and the like and with how some tanks are these days, it makes me want Titan to come back. Scholar also terribly suffers from a similar fate; bring back my girl Selene! 😢 I miss how Scholar was before and certainly feel it's gone downhill as well and makes me feel heartbroken how these two classes just got massacred.

[@RANDomstuff0709]

I started in 2021 and only got my Summoner up to 60 or so before Endwalker dropped. I miss *that* Summoner, and I think that if CS3 is going to explore more design spaces, they're going to have to revisit DoTs sooner rather than later.

[@SorasShadow1]

i started playing in ShB and SMN was (and still is) my main, i remember being very proud of myself for more or less sorting out the proper rotations on my own and the only optimization i was missing was swapping to Titan-egi for its instant aoe over Garuda-egi in dungeons but that was....incredibly jank. i miss ShB SMN in a vague way, i don't want it back, instead i hope we get a pet job that actually expands on the bones of SMN back then. stuff like Phoenix having a combo action, needing to actually stay still during bahamut and manage ruin 4 stacks, dots, some of the egi juggling was really fun when it actually worked properly but i always felt like i was fighting the bad design too much just trying to swap between titan and garuda for dungeon aoes. i recall actively avoiding running SMN in places like Bozja because of the jank, that's how i ended up loving WHM so much (please i miss old thin air so much give it back yoshi p). and getting Puppet's Bunker on B or C alliance was a fucking headache. i'd tell ifrit to punch my boss, it would punch my boss, then i'd tell it to use the other punch, it would get confused and wander off to A's boss and waste my kit. it would often do this after i ordered it to sic my boss and pressed the party buff button, or actively placed it on the ground in the middle of my party before pressing it in other fights. and none of that's even touching upon how much easier it was to sandbag the team by choosing the wrong egi, or worse, intentionally grief by disguising your egi and making everything take ages. frankly i don't think the pug community in xiv has the braincells for "please learn the difference between aoe, single target, and solo kits" anyway, so maybe pets getting punted off to whatever Beastmaster ends up being is for the best. i do miss that rite of passage wherein carby pulls like 5 enemies when you're just starting out in la noscea. that group of pirates by summerford took me ages lmao

[@royox]

I also remember that you could set the Egis into Automatic and Manual and they would be kinda good by themselves...except fking garuda would use a melee attack she had to push enemies, meaning that she would leave everything she was doing to run from one corner of the arena to where the boss is and use that skill. And of course, Garuda wouldn't do any attack or CONTAGION while she was moving.

[@Neos4500]

I mained summoner for years exactly because it was about DoTs and pets. Shadowbringers already saw me moving towards tanking but ever since Endwalker, where they made summoner the flashy but boring lightshow it is now, I've picked up my Gunblade/Axe/Sword&Shield/Greatsword and never looked back.

[@theopeneyes]

While I miss the pet job aspect I don't miss the jank. I still remember struggling to down Garuda Extreme cause someone was killing the spiny plume at random times so I slowed down my gameplay to see who was doing it, the culprit? My Ifrit Egi for some unknown would ignore EVERY other target in the instance that I've been targeting+doting and make a beeline for the spiny plume when it spawned, I opted to just unsummon him for the rest of the attempts and we downed her soon after.

[@KalsamRetritro]

I actually still have a Keeper's Hymn XD I had some on my character when I had taken a break from the game, and came back to them being useless. Sold all but one, which sits on a retainer holding old items no longer used :3

[@bunthewiser4330]

I got to experience original summoner for all of 8 months til endwalker dropped, and I like it more than what we got in the 2-3 years since. At least the Dot Part. Imagine if they changed how the summons work, but you still kept the Dots, or applied them via the three "basic" summons, and they lasted about as long as the rotations for each of said summons. Like a Burn/Scorched for Ifrit, An Aero for Geruda (i guess we do have that kinda), and a Sludge or something for titan.

[@Draylin41]

As someone who started in ARR as a Summoner and has engaged with it casually for the whole of the game since, there are definitely some aspects of its older iterations that I miss. By no means am I saying I want the old Dot heavy version of it back, but certain things about it just synergized well and I wish some of that was still present. I liked feeling rewarded for having all my dots active when popping Feaster, which meant it did more damage. Now it just feels like a holdover from the older design. In my opinion, they should bring that back, but have it buffed up when used after a full rotation of Titan, Garuda, Ifrit instead of Dots. There are many other things they could do to make Summoner a more interesting job in its current form without making it much harder to manage so I was pretty disappointed when DTs version just had one extra button press thrown into practically the same rotation as EW. It almost feels wrong for the job to not have something that really shakes up the way it's played for the first expansion in over a decade.

[@cattysplat]

Rewarding good play feels good. Removing all of that feels boring. Simplifying everything so nobody can make a mistake means there is nothing to learn when playing a job.

[@SHAJ33]

THANK YOU!!! for this vid.. i just got back into it yesterday and It felt like my summoner was a completely different class... at first i thought i was tripping or mis-remembering my hotbar/set-up... but after watching your vid... i see the class really is just plain different now T-T... ngl the summons at lv70i+ are cool af, but im a super casual at lv 57 somewhere in heavensward rn. Im wondering if maybe i should change over to dark knight or something else..

[@ReiSilver]

I do kind of miss being a dot job, made me feel smart balancing all the dots like spinning plates

[@probablydeadoof19]

a pet based summoner like it is in lost ark where you have multiple ai controlled pets, they only have 1 cooldown thats used by recasting the ability and can move them by doing certain different inputs, and you can have multiple out at once would be pretty cool

[@wilddragonchase]

2.0 SMN was so janky but i do miss having the chicken nugget do tank stuff, which happened more often than not because early on players were inexperienced and tanks did die quite often. oh and physick actually healed for decent damage and you could be Titan's healer. i think my fave pre-EW SMN was Heavensward. painflare and deathflare were just so satisfying to use. as a SMN main since FFXI tho, the current identity is much better

[@lanah_tyra]

Still have my cross-bar on PS4 with all the dots, bane and Shadowflare on it. Loved the old SMN for how many fun things you could do with it, but I also love the new one with the big summon animations. Even in ShB I still tanked Keeper of the Lake on SMN after our tank abandoned us. It wasn't the same anymore as in ARR but that shield from Titan egi came in handy. Would be nice to get another dot job or a pet job now that they managed to get rid of some of the spaghetti code and building up a new job from the ground is a lot easier.

[@a_call_beyond3164]

I started my journey when Stormblood was the new expansion. And I liked sommoner a lot. I will also always remember how some random mentor back then said I was playing the job pretty well. Good old times.

[@cattysplat]

Glad I got to play the last gasp of old Summoner in Shadowbringers when I joined. Managing dots and pets with cooldowns like a WoW warlock was so much fun, even though it definitely felt weak until you had all your dots rolling which took quite some time. There is still a job quest at about level 70 that expects you to use titan pet to tank but pet tanks are gone now, so you have to run around kiting the mob not letting it catch you. It's sad to see Dots are dying out, they removed Monk dot in Dawntrail and Ninja dot in Endwalker, the last class is Dragoon but I'm sure that'll be removed too. Even Viper got it's debuff removed for a buff instead, everything getting too simplified.