Subcision: Does it cause facial sagging? | Dr Davin Lim

[@B0sTonCeltics20534]

Man....Acne scars are truly a curse. So sad how its also considered a comestic procedure when you try and get rid of them

[@vanesslifeygo]

I mean it kind of is but yes people dont understand what this does to you

[@lbshal]

seriously, acne scars are the worst.

[@Willow115.34]

I really appreciate that you took the time to listen to the community online. I have a lot of respect for that. I had subcision but not TL. I had no issues and I feel it greatly enhanced my results to my boxcars.

[@TheMusicLove95]

What wad your age at the time of procedure? And are you normal weight or rather a bit overweight? Just asking cause I'm wondering if thr people who don't notice sagging afterwards maybe already had some weight or age related sagging. Hope it's not too personal of a question

[@Willow115.34]

@@TheMusicLove95 I'm in a healthy weight range, BMI of 22. I was 32 years old, it was done last year. Other than my scarring my face is quite youthful I feel.

[@jenniferdiaz4310]

What doctor did you do it with?

[@Willow115.34]

@@jenniferdiaz4310 Dr. Rullan in San Diego.

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

​@WillowMary33 Did you have a lot of swelling after the treatment? You remember if it was rather aggressive and on a bigger area of the cheek? And was there only one incision point per cheek ot several? Sorry for the many questions, really curious :)

[@katez0rz]

Dr H needs to watch this…. A few times just to be safe

[@ctc6960]

Who is Dr. H??

[@bilalameer57]

He is also a dr ​@@ctc6960

[@Katie-xp3db]

@@ctc6960 nothing but an arrogant butcher that you need to avoid at all costs

[@Laila-ck8tm]

Been to him too. 6 months later still suffering

[@jenniferdiaz4310]

@@Laila-ck8tm what happened?

[@MsACC2011]

What I've learned from my 20+ years of adult life seeing docs is that if a rumor is going around about a procedure or med, no matter how much your doc explains it away, it will probably turn up true.

[@drdavinlim]

There are so many variables in play, as outlined in this video.

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

Spot on. Patients have 0 reason to make stuff like that up and use their time to spread the info about it. Dr's on the other hand have all the interest in the world to protect themselvs from backlash. Recognizing they knowingly or unknowingly have botched a person is threatening to their reputation. So they instantly gaslight. They don't for a sec care to listen to the patient. Apparently in the Dr community it's well known that the aestetic drs are often the most unethical ones. They don't really give a f about your face...only their own ass

[@lahore_shorts]

​@@drdavinlimhad done subcision 1 year go .my saggy cheeks are not going away need help

[@comquatcash]

@@lahore_shorts I wish you the best and may god Heal you in every aspect

[@lahore_shorts]

@@comquatcash thankyou so much😥❤️

[@aliais1837]

I had Taylor Liberator performed and immediately after there was a drop in my cheeks - i.e sagging in my lower face. Regardless of other circumstances that could have made the sagging worse, the before and after pics the day before procedure, and then after the procedure demonstrate this. I've had to have surgery to correct it. While I'm not anti subcision, I am anti 1-size fits all, type of subscision, and inexperienced practitioners. I appreciate you need to do an objective assessment and further research, however, I also think that before anyone goes through extreme subscision they need to have scans of their face (fat positioning etc.), before and after pics and to track and properly measure the impact of the subscision. I also think that when performing subscision with Taylor Liberator, it might not be wise to do it in isolation. Other practioners do laser immediately after the liberator and extreme compression....in part...i suspect....to contract the soft tissue, encourage collagen and mitigate some of the damage from the Taylor Liberator. I tracked my journey through youtube via videos by the way - and have loads of other before and after!

[@K-kz5qv]

The same here. How much % of improvement you got with your surgery ? Is your face back to normal ? Did your surgeon find the cause of your swelling during your surgery ?

[@drdavinlim]

Many thanks for your viewpoint. I know your case well and certainly agree with your comments regarding the one size fits all aspect of scar revision; instruments & procedures should be selected based upon individual patient factors. Indeed pre & post MRI may serve some purpose if extensive field subcision is considered. As with every case, standardised photography & even body fat content -weight should be measured. In the context of the Liberator, it is merely an instrument that maybe called upon if the job suits. Personally, I prefer finer instruments, however in cases where scarring is extreme in patients with a high fat content-thick dermis, I may call upon this device. Compression itself, in theory will do nothing for retaining ligaments (if this we true of transaction), however it is a very useful way of reducing soft tissue swelling post procedure, in addition to reducing the rate of haematomas. As you correctly pointed out, if the scar signature/s call for energy devices, they are employed in the same setting of subcision, regardless of instrumentation.

[@aliais1837]

@drdavinlim Thank you for the response, Dr Lim. Yes, I agree, I do think if you are doing full field subscision, laser should be done immediately after not just to treat scars but also to contract the skin. I think that it can help resolve superficial swelling/potential stretching from the subscision. Appreciate it won't fix the cutting of retaining ligaments, but I think it reduces the risk of prolonged soft tissue swelling. It's then slightly easier to acertain cause of potential prolonged swelling. I think for a lot of people who have received Taylor Liberator in the UK, it probably was not the appropriate tool for their face, and localised subscision (for example with Nokor) would have sufficed. In my case, the Taylor Liberator released retaining ligaments and caused my malar and buccal fat pads to drop. I'm not saying this would not have happened to me anyway at some point in my life due to natural aging, however, for me, the drop was instantaneous post surgery. To resolve the issue, I had to undergo FL with malar and buccal fat removal/repositioning, plus fat graft (for malar/mid cheek area).

[@aliais1837]

@K-kz5qv Hi, I believe I've had close to 100% improvement to my drooping/lower face saggong post corrective surgery. I've even had my acne scarring improve! I'm only 3 months post treatment, though, so it's still very early yo measure results.

[@TheMusicLove95]

Hi Alia. I'm SO happy to hear that!! Followed your story and sorry you had to go through so much! Would you do an update on how it looks now? I face the same problem in a less severe form but I suffer a lot with it mentally. Thanks!

[@daniellelouise970]

I appreciate you sharing this video as I have complications after Taylor Liberator subcision. The aging argument does not hold up for me, I had it done at 32, it was immediately after the procedure I had swelling and sagging. It has never gone away. It angers me that the risks and side effects of this procedure is still so unknown and practitioners have been permitted to and continue to do it.

[@Raj-Mifesto]

​​@@arar7676why haven't you contacted your doctor till now ?

[@Nickknows00]

I got a few pea size lumps under my skin but they shrank away to nothing over 6months. It really work amazing in my deep acne scars. Its an amazing treatment

[@arar7676]

Did you have swelling still swelling in your face and it seems heavy for you ?

[@TheMusicLove95]

Thanks for the video and talking about this issue transparently!! The mental distress caused by this side effect is impossible to describe. Seeing your face change infront of your eyes in such a short time...I really can't explain how that feels. My take on the video: 1. I think you brought up several good reasons for possible sagging post subcision and I LOVE the idea of possibly interviewing some victims (like Alia) 3. To the aging aspect: I've talked to several patients in their 20ties, many of them early 20ties who are seeing very sudden sagging and face shape changes. This are not normal age related changes you see, esp. to this degree, at such a young age. So this argument would in many cases of young patients, esp. under 30 be VERY coincidental imo. 4. I VERY much agree that discussing the individual risk-benefit ratio with the patient for their scar situation in a TRANSPARENT way (informing of ALL possible side effects and also admitting what is not known yet) should be obligatory like it is usual practice in all other medical situations. In my case that was neglected heavily. I was never made aware of this possible consequence.And the aim should esp. with mild-moderate scars always be to chose the least invasive treatment first. 5. It is absolutely indispensable that you comment on the following scientific article (PubMed) if you really wanna review all scientific evidence present: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8697340/ Thanks for the video and I hope you adress the open aspects :)

[@drdavinlim]

Risk to benefit ratio should be considered. Ideally as a percentage or number, pertaining to the instrument, method and practitioner. The first two Via publications, the last via the honest disclosure of the treating surgeon. First two, controlled via scientific publications, last, eeeer difficult to quantify given the variables. Hence why I feel it’s so vitally important to OBJECTIVELY document cases, and yes, account for all the possible contributions to this process. The most important thing to consider is the causative vs correlative aspects. My initial theory is that there are many different factors that come into Play, and importantly to rule out incidental age related changes. Again discussed in the video. Reference paper has been cited in the publication (😉), so don’t worry, all covered!!! Essentially we have to take each case into consideration, weighing up the risks of aggression vs conservative cannula. I also illustrated the other side of triangulation with entry points in the inferior and medial aspects of the face, including idiosyncratic scarring, especially in dark skin types. This sort of discussion is extremely thought provoking and will certainly add to the argument regarding techniques, instruments employed, risks, and benefits. Well done for raising the points! I hope that post publication you, or others can provide more insight and viewpoints. This only amplifies our limited knowledge on this subject.

[@USERID-zm5qe]

@@drdavinlim This only amplifies our LIMITED KNOWLEDGE on this subject?! Then why did you promote this method? and never said your knowledge is limited on it?

[@ctc6960]

@@USERID-zm5qe Dr. Lim never promoted this to be done by non-trained MD or MD with limited experience. He was very clear on this on every one of his posts. That it's not the instrument, it's the person using that instrument regardless of what it is.....almost on anything.

[@Sophie-m9p]

What's frustrating is that I sought subcision treatment after watching one of Davin's videos as he was raving about it and the benefits of it. Little did I know how risky and dare I say experimental it is, since practitioners - including Dr H - supposedly had no clue of the potential risks and dangers until people came forward... are we just guinea pigs?! Zero risks were outlined to me and I've been left with an asymmetrical face and a persistant triangular sized lump in my right cheek for over two years - which has aged me significantly and has not subsided (despite the promise of the face returning to it's normal structure within a few days). The fact that Davin's suggesting a coincidence in timing of accelerated aging is a bit bonkers as even without the procedure, what person in their late 20s experiences ages to have the lower cheek appearance of a 45+ year old in the space of 6 months? The fact that multiple TL patients have chosen to have revision facelifts to fix their TL complications is beyond me. The procedure should be banned in my opinion.

[@USERID-zm5qe]

Well in Dr Lim opinion your perceptions are subjective and it's your fault that you made subcision exactly during "6 months period of accelerated aging." Because he published his paper where he states in conclusion that subcision is safe. Full stop. Imagine how this paper will help to all the criminal doctors around the world to gaslight the victims. All his doing is covering his and his colleagues' asses, that's all. That's not science, that's a conflict of interest.

[@S-ww4df]

@@USERID-zm5qe absolutely, he's just listing theories to explain the sagging (where is he even gathering research?). But at the end of the day, it's only the facelift surgeons performing revision surgery who are able to see what's happened (at least two TL patients who've had facelifts say it was a combination of fat pad prolapse and fibrosis). Dr H subcised my entire cheek, which has undoubtedly affected the positioning of fat in my face, significantly ageing me. I'm also an identical twin, and she didn't have TL but still has lovely high cheekbones and facial fat around her cheekbones - which hasn't suddenly travelled south like mine has (we have very similar lifestyles), so the fat dropping suddenly was definitely caused by Dr H's botched treatment. I had no idea that this could be a potential complication at the time, but I'm glad patients are coming forward and warning others as it is quite a distressing complication to have when you're still in your 20s.

[@Nickknows00]

I had a few lumps under my skin after also but they faded over a year and now my skin looks so much better than before. For me it was worth it. You need to start massaging those scars everyday and use a scar dissolving cream. It worked me

[@USERID-zm5qe]

@@Nickknows00 what kind of scar dissolving cream you used?

[@_Epsilon_]

@@USERID-zm5qe Rosemary essential oil is considered to be against scars. Mix it with castor oil, make it 10% concentration. It can soften the area. Also for effective subcision Vitamin D is very important, it prevents formation of fibrosis tissues, so after subcision a lot of broken bonds do not re-attach.

[@chelimorales]

Thank you very much for this honest video. Here my experience if it might be of help: I am 50 M, my adult acne isn’t active anymore. I have done this procedure 2 times within the past 1.5 years period with Dr. Henningsen (whom I got to know thanks to one of your videos), and I am really happy with the results. In my perception I went from quite sad- mid deep rolling scarring on both of my cheeks to a kind of low deep scarring that does not cause me pain at the mirror anymore. A huge improvement in my well-being. People barely notice it. No extra noticeable sagging effect except that of my natural aging, nor swelling except just a few hours after the procedure. As far as I remember, my subcition was done just on the problematic areas, conservatively. I can only thank you so much Dr. Lim for introducing me to this technique and making it possible to do it in Europe with a trustful professional.

[@drdavinlim]

You are indeed welcome. The true risk of sagging (Not as a causative factor, but an incidental correlation), is very slim (if any).

[@USERID-zm5qe]

this is not an honest video by far

[@USERID-zm5qe]

@@drdavinlim stop the gaslighting already

[@ctc6960]

@@USERID-zm5qe Stop this non-sense. Seriously.

[@TheMusicLove95]

Don't say that please when you and all other derms literally don't know this at this point in time.

[@AbstractMindsThinkAlike]

In my opinion, the act of stretching out the entire face like from what I've seen in a subcision video, is bound to cause some damage. I don't see, logically, how the face can completely go back to normal. Maybe in a young patient. If putting filler under the skin causes issues in the future with getting facelifts, and people complaining that when they get their filler removed their lips aren't the same that should tell you something

[@S-ww4df]

How are the "scientists" even supposed to KNOW which ageing cycle a patient is in? The risks for potential premature ageing and prolonged (probably permanent) "swelling" - or displaced FAT - should definitely be mentioned as a risk of TL subcision during the consultation, especially as countless patients are going back to the doctors with this complication. It's unbelievably unethical not to do so and will only lead to more unhappy patients and lawsuits. A doctor motivated only by money and not by transforming the lives of acne scar patients (potentially ruining them?) is just tragic.

[@mcp4029]

Thank you! Im so shocked that such unethical doctors even exist. Are they all some psychos lacking empathy? I even confronted my derm expert about the study and some individual cases I found (wasnt brought up AT ALL by him). Well he basically completely dismissed it saying ofc not...no...no. What would have been his ethical duty to disclose is either "i dont know...ill admit im not up to date about this issue, havent personally had such cases but might be" or "it has been reported but in some cases but couldnt be backed up scientifically yet. That does not mean it is not a real possible side effect. All that means is right now its a theoretical side effect and needs more evidence. Again, it COULD happen. WE DONT KNOW for sure yet" Its not like this potential side effect is so minor that - should it occure - is pretty much irrelevant to your facial attractivness, mental health and self esteem. It shouldnt matter that "its only anecdotal" still when the consequences to the physical appearance, self esteem and mental health and finances for a follow up treatment are SO detrimemtal. Im regularely suicidal, have trauma from it and lost any pretty privilege I once had. This side effect - doesnt matter if still only anecdotal and theoretical - should be mendatory to mention as it has the potential to completly break a person and their life quality with 1 treatment. People who are victims of Dr's who didnt inform them properly suffer daily from it. Theres 20 y/o who have to undergo face lifts in their 20ties to feel somewhat normal/attractive again. This is insanity to me. Even if only theoretically a potential side effect still.....its one that f matters due to its MAJOR impact on the patirnts life.

[@TheMusicLove95]

Right? It's not like it's a minor side effect. It'll kill your facial attractiveness and steal ~a decade of where your looks should be still good in a matter of minutes. The psychological impact is severe so I don't understand how it's treated so lightly regarding the "should I inform about it....ah naaah...why bother...I might lose a patient then". Where are thr ethics?

[@spanishjohn420]

@@TheMusicLove95 I specifically asked the surgeon if it affects any other structures of the skin before the procedure. Had a scar from a single cyst on the connector between beard and moustache and got subcision 4 weeks ago, now that area of my face, where cheek meets mouth meets chin, looks different and lost all definition. Could it just be swelling? Surgeon said he didnt go deep enough to affect anything but at the same time kinds feeling gaslit. Only 4 weeks ago so could be in my head or could be swelling or could be at worst undermining or total severing of minor facial retaining ligaments where the mouth/cheek meet.

[@naomistewart70]

​@@spanishjohn420how is it now. What instrument was used on you

[@naomistewart70]

Does a cannula have the same side effects as the tl?

[@joshnee24]

As another commenter talked about, in forums people talk about filler causing sagging overtime. While it may be a good temporary fix, it seems like years later many come to the conclusion it ultimately wasn't worth it. Would love to see a video on this, but furthermore, on your thoughts on this when also talking about biostimulators vs fillers

[@drdavinlim]

Video done on this, plus write up in my blog. Too much product, namely HA can accumulate over time and yes, in theory can add volume that “migrates” down, ie inferiority / lower face. Hence why I encourage collagen stimulation via injectable placed in the Atrophic scars and in vectors to displace skin…

[@fpsSYRIA]

Subcusion with a blunt cannula changed my life. I had some of the worst acne scars I’ve ever seen and now it’s so minimal.

[@simper420]

How long ago was it? And how many sessions?

[@fpsSYRIA]

@@simper420Proper sessions was 3, last one was with PRP. What I realised is the reason scars retether or done improve as much is because the person preforming the subcision was not thorough enough. Almost all videos on youtube they clearly miss scars. Also i done the suction method aggressively for 2 weeks after the subcisions. Its been 2 months since my last treatment. 97% better than before. My scars are not noticeable at all

[@Willow115.34]

Me too

[@fpsSYRIA]

happy for you@@Willow115.34

[@lavendar_]

@@fpsSYRIAomg this is great

[@justinwhite213]

really appreciate this informative content, as someone who is considering subsicion this is fantastic information. We appreciate the work you do!

[@drdavinlim]

Glad it was helpful!

[@FBUOB]

Did you go ahead with it?

[@justinwhite213]

Not yet, currently on accutane.. again. So I'll be done with this in a couple months then I'll think look at providers who can give me a good result. I need to save some coin first though@@FBUOB

[@stargirl1613]

I got a subsicion done about a week ago and Im glad I got it, my acne scarring has reduced and people I know are also noticing it and complimenting me 😊 My face looks like I've got more collagen too. I've got another treatment in a month to finally reduce the last bit of visible acne scarring + laser. If anyone is considering a subsicion, please don't go to cheap clinics, because it was a bit brutal (for me) especially for people with low pain tolerance. Don't worry the doctor will inject your face with anaesthetic first.

[@kimhay4434]

Where did you go

[@prizzrak1404]

Can you Pls tell me if nerve damage is a common side effect of subscision?

[@Ajxoxoxoxo]

Acne and ace scars are the worst curse same as cancer. Totally need lots and lots of effort to get heal. And cannot be 100% heal.

[@jibriljinno]

will having lasers, Thermage, or skin tightening treatments avoid this side effect?

[@GilbysMom]

Hi ! Who is a good doctor doing this in the USA? Thank you for all of this information!

[@ctc6960]

Thank you, Doc. Fyi: The volume quality on this post is low. It's difficult to hear you.

[@Katie-xp3db]

I had taylor liberator subcision a few years ago and had no idea about the risks of sagging but I've unfortunately encountered this. My face looks so deflated, strange and unnatural when I smile due to the damage that was caused. I regret having the procedure every day and my only fix to help get my face looking normal again would be to have a face lift. my scars were only boxcar scars as well and only ONE scar on my cheek bothered me, now my whole face does.

[@AbstractMindsThinkAlike]

I'm so sorry. Why did they recommend subcision if you only had a mild scar that bothered you?

[@Katie-xp3db]

@@AbstractMindsThinkAlike they only offered CO2 laser or taylor liberator subcision. I didn't want laser as I'd been put off by the downtime and having to shield myself from the sun. I had mild boxcar scarring on my cheeks, but one deeper scar that bothered me in particular and seemed tethered. I wish I researched the procedure more, was aware of the risks and the negative reviews about this Dr (H, of course) and could turn back time. The anguish of basically being robbed of your natural face shape by the awful aggressive technique of a cowboy is something else. I'm getting a facelift later this year for my sanity as my cheeks resemble those of someone in their 50s and I'm still in my 20s!

[@bismaferoze406]

@@Katie-xp3db did you get your face scanned yet? found out the root cause of sagging?

[@bismaferoze406]

@@Katie-xp3db was it single entry or multiple entries

[@safeenanoor6560]

Same with me I don't know what to do now. Facial sagging

[@sunyponcebaldeon4490]

Muchas gracias Dr. Lee, cuánto quisiera poder tratarme con usted, hay alguna forma de contactarlo, vivo en Perú.

[@annirudh707]

I m 34 M, have undergone 2 sitting of subcision and my face is already sagging. I look old now and the results are not permanent as the scar bands reattaches again when I exposed to any uv rays. I regret for undergoing this procedure.

[@drdavinlim]

What we need to know are variables such as procedure itself and most importantly the role of chronological aging; correlation and causation.

[@certafied5024]

Did you do canuala subcison ?

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

This is such a classic politician non-answer 😂 just be ethical and own up to the shit this procedure has the potential to do. For real....expected more from you. If I were a Dr. I would take thus so serious as soon as it'd report back to me (especially several times) and instantly try to collect research on the matter instead of harming further people

[@Sop12349]

@@Saibu-uo4ts this doctor seems to lack ethics in my opinion and is also in black and white on the APHRA registration website, so I'm not making it up. Look him up on the APHRA registration site about his ethics and decision making matters.

[@miketirpathi132]

Yes Iam also suffering this procedure and made hematoma my face😢

[@tonylowry8338]

Elissa here. Im 41 years old and i had 3 rounds of subcision with bellafill injected. My skin looks SO much better! I have ice pick, box car and rolling scars and my skin looked sagged in those areas before thus procedure. Im very happy with my results.

[@sousousou4160]

I have ice pick scars please can you tell me if the subcision with filler helped you 😔😔

[@tonylowry8338]

@@sousousou4160 yes! They are not completely gone but a major improvement after 3 sessions and the great thing is the subcision is permanent and Bellafill is specifically designed to last way longer than regular filler. It has made much more of a difference than microneedling and laser ever did. Hope this helps

[@jenniferdiaz4310]

@@tonylowry8338 Hello, which doctor did you have the procedure with?

[@zitimotleyxxjmxx]

Finally a positive feedback. I had this done also and surprised at the number of people in here commenting about their negative experience. All i can see on my face is just the improvement. Had this done last year and it came as a package. Subcision+PRP+TCA cross+C02. I didnt do a follow up session. I couldnt afford it anymore. Turned out once is enought and i had bad acne scars

[@tonylowry8338]

@@jenniferdiaz4310 I went to Elizabeth Karaali in the Detroit area. She is a NP

[@Aka26797]

Hey Dr Lim, might localized subcision be safer than just going under and cutting everything? I have some tethered scars on my temples and was wondering if it is possible to just cut those threads safely.

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

I would not risk it tbh from my own experience

[@ritumaheshwari7585]

How long does subcision take to show results?

[@chandrachauhan4068]

Yes this is not your normal video bit it has been very helpful. I has a large atropic scar with a small keloid on my leg. It's about 2 inches long. It was a small accident and the scar and keloid appeared almost 6 months after the injury. I have been hesitating to get the procedure done. Now I feel a bit better. My doctor might get irritated with my questions but at least I will have some peace of mind

[@Simgamerloverx]

Doctor, please tell me what solutions so I can fix this. I had subcision done as a 23 year old and my face has sagged. I think only buccal fat removal and/or getting a facelift will maybe help me get my old face back. what are you thoughts about these procedures? Please, I hope you answer

[@drdavinlim]

1. Objective comparison with before & after. 2. Exclude oedema, & secondary causes. 3. Your specialist can guide you as to the objective results & provide a treatment plan. Cheers, Davin Lim

[@certafied5024]

Did you do cannula subcison?

[@TheMusicLove95]

Hi there. Is there a way we can connect? Im facing the same problem and I'd love to chat and share experiences!

[@Simgamerloverx]

@@TheMusicLove95hi! Sure, do you have an instagram?

[@daniellelouise970]

Me too but I’m 33 :(

[@Slimness33]

I am 46 and just had subcision done. I previously had it done two years ago and that doctor did it in sections. The doctor that I just went to did my entire cheek at one time which I felt like I only had areas that needed to be addressed and I wasn’t expecting her to do that and now I’m concerned with the facial sagging, she did my chin area. There was quite a bit of pain in that area and also a lot of bruising now I’m concerned of the issues that I’m gonna have specially at 46 and facial sagging.@drd

[@samarthlakhe-s2b]

do u get results

[@Slimness33]

@@samarthlakhe-s2b actually I do see a lot of improvement not 100 percent better but, 75 ish. Laser sessions and micro needling… to help collogan building

[@spanishjohn420]

youre fucked if you get sagging because they will just fob it off as ageing

[@franciscoluisblanco6763]

OMG thank you so much for relasing this video doc your the best

[@drdavinlim]

No problem!

[@Vintaget26]

Many people on forums now are talking about the side effects of using fillers and how that creates long term sagging. What are your thoughts on this?

[@db-gb5xi]

It would be interesting to hear his opinion. I know the budget dermatologist did a couple videos a year or so ago on her issues with fillers.

[@drdavinlim]

Depends on the type of injectable, explained in more detail on my website

[@robinchan7199]

Is it normal to have bumps after subcision and when will it disappear?

[@onedayapp3534]

would you recomend co2 laser for rolling scars? should subsicion be done before? I've done 6 treatmments of rf microneedling with no results :(

[@loraa3873]

Hi. Since this guy NEVER deigns to answer his audience, I'll give u my opinion, based only on my own rolling scars experience. It's a combination approach and that does include fractionated laser (c02). RF micro needling will work from the bottom up, so to speak, while fractionated works top down. The peel is intense and deep but once it peels off u have plump glowing skin. That's the Cinderella effect unfortunately. So u gotta come up w the $$ to do both rf and this repeatedly. We're almost looking for that miracle aren't we? It takes time, patience and $$. Not necessarily in that order lol. Good luck and find a well skilled practitioner!

[@spanishjohn420]

I specifically asked the surgeon if it affects any other structures of the skin before the procedure. Had a scar from a single cyst on the connector between beard and moustache and got subcision 4 weeks ago, now that area of my face, where cheek meets mouth meets chin, looks different and lost all definition. Could it just be swelling? Surgeon said he didnt go deep enough to affect anything but at the same time kinds feeling gaslit. Only 4 weeks ago so could be in my head or could be swelling or could be at worst undermining or total severing of minor facial retaining ligaments where the mouth/cheek meet.

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

Is it still like that?

[@spanishjohn420]

@@Saibu-uo4ts seems better now I reckon its just swelling and will reduce as the hypertrophic scar goes down, part of it is just the scar creating a shadow next to my mouth. It's over a month since subcision and its still changing every day

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

@spanishjohn420 thanks for the answer. Happy to hear that. Lucky you had only 1 scar. Imagine having the whole cheeks being subcised. That's where the real damage starts :((

[@spanishjohn420]

@@Saibu-uo4ts True, my surgeon is a specialist in scars but I did ask about the taylor liberator full cheek subcision and he says thats way too aggressive unless you have really bad combination scars across both cheeks and even then its better to do each scar individually, but that takes several hours, rather than 30 mins. Which is why most won't do it.

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

@spanishjohn420 does he think the same about full cheek subcision with blunt cannula? Where only 1 incision point is used for to subcise the whole cheek? Thanks for sharing! Good you went to someone knowledgeable. Can you share the name?

[@suncat1396]

when you say facial ageing what age are you talking about?

[@nick17016]

Hi dr! How do i fix skin saggin after subsicion? Do you recommend Morpheous 8?

[@bismaferoze406]

Do you think stem cell therapy can correct this?

[@arar7676]

@@bismaferoze406 please reply me

[@certafied5024]

Is cannula subcison the safest?

[@USERID-zm5qe]

not at all, no subcision is safe

[@TheMusicLove95]

Agreed

[@errah1352]

I was thinking recently about getting subcision procedure for a scar on the chin with Dr Nelson Lee novick he has good reviews according to what I have seen recently but all of these comments have scared me enough what are your thoughts?

[@claudinevanstralen8566]

I wonder... I did 7 subcisions in the past. 4 with one derm and 3 with other. I don't think it was performed well, and 5 years after the last subcision i'm thinking about to do it again with another dr. Is it safe to do so many subcisions?

[@dddd-uk4vn]

@@arar7676 it really depends on the skill of the dermatologist....if they go too deep with the needle and start tearing your ligaments off well...

[@brianmachida9609]

Hello Dr. Lim. What can you do for skin tags all over your cheeks and eye lids

[@hemalipanchal7240]

Hi this video is very informative, I too got swelling in my middle face n sagging..can you tell how can we reverse or get rid of sagging pls pls let us know…

[@arar7676]

What kind of subsacion have you done and after how many time your face is sagg ?

[@ritika5831]

Kya aapki problem thik hue

[@bismaferoze406]

How can we fix the sagging caused by subscision?

[@Sophie-m9p]

with a facelift unfortunately

[@bismaferoze406]

@@Sophie-m9p I guess it depends on the root cause

[@Sophie-m9p]

​@@bismaferoze406 yeah but the fat in my face has well and truly dropped following subcision. My smile and facial structure has never been the same and I can now stretch my face back over 1cm at my cheekbones to reveal how I used to look only 3 years ago just before subcision. I had extensive swelling (likely fibrosis) which definitely compromised the retaining ligaments. I really don't want t have to go through with the process of a facelift and the recovery this year, while I'm not even 30 yet! But I know 3 young people who've had to get facelifts to fix the sagging from Taylor liberator subcision already.

[@bismaferoze406]

@@Sophie-m9p I totally understand you and I have the same issue believe me, but what I believe is that the fibroses caused my subscision is the main reason of sagging, as it makes your skin hard, heavy and no elasticity, it can also compress the fat cells. So what I think is that treating the fibrosis would be enough to bounce back our faces. In that case stem cell treatment would be a good option instead of getting a face lift. Face lift would only lift our face rather than treating the main cause, skin and volume would still be compromised

[@arar7676]

​@@bismaferoze406please sis what should i do I am in depression my subsacion also gone wrong i am 28 year old girl from afghanistan please give me your contact number please i want to share it with you

[@Sop12349]

As usual dancing around the issues, talking jibberish and making excuses. You have a lot to answer for if this is what it is doing to these poor people who are desperate to rid of their acne scarring. This sounds like a procedure for cowboys. Get ready for the lawsuits dr.

[@superdad2895]

Hi Doctor David, I've been your subscriber for 7 years.

[@sevincalekberova4415]

Does dermapen cause facial sagging ?

[@drdavinlim]

similar factors as discussed

[@Simgamerloverx]

Dr Davin Lim I had subcision done 2 years ago I am only 25 years old now and it caused my lower face to sag. do you think this can be fixed? Please help us. We rely on you.

[@drdavinlim]

Relied. First step? Objective assessment before any treatment. All the best.

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

Was it cannula subcision? Or Taylor Liberator?

[@zitimotleyxxjmxx]

I absolutely love the results of my subcision treatment. Not sure why people are talking about the sagging thing. I had this last year and so far all i can see are just the improvements.

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

Can you give details about the subcision? Starting to think it has a lot to do with how big of an area, the place of subcison and how many incision points Did you have cannula? How big was the cannula (if you remember)? How many entry points? Was it a big area that was subcised? Which part of face?......etc. Thanks a lot! And good it worked out for you. In my case there was unfortunately sagging and increased bottom heaviness (smile just changed somehow also)

[@gigglygeekgal]

I did this and it caused sagging! 😢😢😢

[@zainabkhan99386]

With subcision

[@jenniferdiaz4310]

what doctor?

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

​@@jenniferdiaz4310Dr Henningsen in Denmark

[@andangpalev6636]

Why my face shape is different when i smile and laugh after my subcision and prp treatment? Can anyone explaine please?

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

Exactly the same in my case!

[@spanishjohn420]

me too

[@syavashayazi2785]

Same. Definitely aged my skin 5 years foward. 😢

[@hg2614]

Hey doc u look like u are not wearing enough sunscreen 😮😮

[@drdavinlim]

Transient pigment darkening from pico the day before 😂

[@nargesse8069]

I had subsicion with cannula one time and with nokur 2 time, I feel like after the nokor subsicion my scars became worse so now that I went to another doctor he told me that I have rolling scar which is required another subsicion session. Now I don't know what to do. I know that I have mostly rolling scars so I want to get another subsicion, But I want it to be in good hands. How can I make sure my doctor is up to date with recent research? ( I live in Iran) ps: I had good results with cannula, but nokor subsicion was just painful

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

I would never risk it again. Like...the bitter irony is...as soon as your face is messed up cause of subcision, suddenly acne scars seem like such a tolerable fate. Would go back to having my natural face , even wirh the acne scars, in a heartbeat 💔💔

[@nargesse8069]

@Saibu-uo4ts what exactly happened after subsicion? Did you do it with cannula?

[@Saibu-uo4ts]

@nargesse8069 it detached your skin from your face. So when you're under 30 and thr skin is normally tight and firmly against the face (when thin). Afterwards its just saggy and seems loose/detached. Gravity then pulls it down and you have a saggy face before 30....overnight

[@nargesse8069]

@@Saibu-uo4ts Can I see a before and after pictures?

[@syavashayazi2785]

Do not do this shit. Aged my skin 5 plus years. Helped with my rolling scars but fcked me with looking older.

[@k.almazroie7532]

How to treating ice pick scars

[@drdavinlim]

Watch the video I did specifically for ice pick scars…

[@sandeepjaiswal2179]

After 1 month of subcition my face swelling not go down in some area's now what i do

[@frozengamer3030]

Go back to where you got it done

[@frozengamer3030]

@@arar7676 that's not normal it take a few days to heal. Speak to the person who done it

[@frozengamer3030]

@@arar7676 It's best to speak to them or go to the doctor.

[@sandeepjaiswal2179]

@@arar7676 no my condition was good

[@arar7676]

@@sandeepjaiswal2179 please help me I am in depression I have still swelling in some areas after 3 months of subsacion