Lathe Hack, Making Calculated Cuts With Your Compound

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

That was a good choice of subject material. I remember back when I was learning to use a lathe I heard that exact same thing. Of course over the years I forgot what the correct angle was. Still I used the compound to make tinier adjustments when I was close to my desired size and it helps.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I though that I remembered it being a 45 degree angle and it never worked out so I started from scratch to figure out what I was doing wrong, then the light bulb lit up. Yah I remember now. Thanks for watching and commenting,

[@davidcouling7490]

Thanks for the information Steve. you are the first person to properly explain this....great video...

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@larrythompson2967]

Hi Steve, informative video for sure. I am a retired machinist, and still have a fairly nice shop (IMHO) I was taught this over half a century ago, and agree that not many are aware of it. The only caveat for this is how the dials are made on your your specific machine. Mine for example is a 1960's vintage, Kerry, from Britain. The cross feed dial is substantially larger than the compound dial, and much better to read, not to mention adjustable. I find that this affords as good or better accuracy than setting the compound for me.

[@sharkrivermachine]

This video went viral because my first title was "What machinists don't want you to know" I go so many negative comments telling me that I didn't know what I was doing that I changed the title. I was very stressful, so I changed the title. Thank you for watching and your kind comments.

[@larrythompson2967]

@@sharkrivermachine I really don't understand the haters on here? I wouldn't let them get to you, most probably wouldn't know which side of a lathe to stand on? Never mind understanding the math required to afford improved accuracy to dimensional tolerances beyond their comprehension? BTW, this comment will probably fire them up as well.........

[@petepeeff5807]

My high school machine shop teacher taught us to set the compound at 60 for this. But he didn't explaine the math or why. I just took it for granted that it worked and everyone did it. Thanks for the explanation 40+ years latter.

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is great, thank you for watching and commenting.

[@jeffanderson4979]

When I first got my Colchester, I moved the cross slide in .050”. With a dial indicator set up I was surprised to find it only moved .025”. Yes, you need to understand your lathe. Well done. New subscriber

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching, commenting, and subscribing.

[@brucecliffe6213]

I have owned a lathe for 45 of my 74 years but have never formally been taught anything to do with lathe work, other than a very small project at High School. I am self taught therefore. Since discovering Keith Rucker, Keith Fenner and Adam Booth I have found a wealth of information and education. I rely heavily on people such as yourself Mr Lang for my education still. I always say, you learn something new every day of your life, if you are of a mind to learn. I thank you for that invaluable tip. Please keep them coming.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting

[@custommetal8838]

Steve, nice coverage of the material. I choose not to bother with the math to set up the compound as when boring I need to be within tenths for a fit. I simply decide how accurate I want to be. By this I mean I will turn the part using the cross slide to within .002-.003 of the finished dimension using the cross slide. To set the compound I mount a dial indicator that reads in tenths ,in place of the cutter, on the tool post and set the cross slide to about 5 degrees. I generally want the cross slide to read 10 units ( now representing tenths) on the dial to represent.001 of the actual cut per side. This can be set very accurately by using the dial indicator to indicate the reading directly as you turn the crank on the cross slide with the indicator against the stock surface. Simply leave the cross slide snug so it can be tapped in or out to get exactly the 10 units per .001 you need. Or even a smaller angle if you want 20 units per .001 of cut. Then tighten it down. Just makes working in tenths a lot easier. Thanx for your videos and the time it takes to produce them.

[@sharkrivermachine]

This gives you the ability to cut to the correct size without "sneaking up on it" which more often than not will result in overshooting the dimension. Check out Stefan Gotteswinter's video on the subject. I try to make every cut as accurate as possible so that when you need to make that accurate cut it is not a problem. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@custommetal8838]

You are absolutely correct. The biggest mistake every beginning machinist makes is trying to "sneak up" on a dimension that is critical but other general machining is " good enough". Machining is like muscle memory, learn to be accurate on your final cut every time and you soon will find how enjoyable it can be with a lot less frustration. Great videos.

[@GoCreatehms]

Another trick for precision turning is to set your compound slide to 84.2 deg (or 5.8 deg depending upon how your lathe is calibrated) then 1 thou on the compound dial is 1/10 the thou on rad. 87.12 deg on the compound would give 1/10th thou on diameter. But setting the compound slide must be very precise to get down to this sort of accuracy.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I looked at that but did not want to over complicate the issue. It has been suggested that I do a follow up advanced video on the subject. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@danielabbey7726]

Yes, I have also heard of using 84.2 degrees when using a tangential shear tool. Those tools are designed for taking very fine finish cuts. Very informative video, Steve!

[@littleworkshopofhorrors2395]

@@danielabbey7726 or a shear tool where a one thou cut is considered a heavy cut.

[@glennfelpel9785]

Outstanding. Great instructions. Thank you.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@charlieromeo7663]

Good of you to point this out Steven. I’m with you in that I cant recall anyone else pointing this out. We learned way back in high school drafting the hypotenuse on our 30-60 triangle was twice the length of the shortest side. Our teacher served us well. Just another real world application of trig that is very useful. Reminds me of the 3-4-5 trick used to check squareness when framing walls and such. Cheers.

[@sharkrivermachine]

When I first started putting my thoughts together for this video I was going to use my drafting 30-60-90 triangle to demonstrate then I decided to use the white board. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@LivinWorkin]

This was a lesson I discovered a few years ago. I remember it was earth breaking when I was able to machine my first ever 1/2 thou cut and measuring it with my micrometer thinking I had just unlocked the mysteries of the universe.

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is the point of this method. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

That's the method i use on my channel when using the tool post grinder . It allows you to work in tenths easily . Cheers .

[@sharkrivermachine]

The Dumor Tool Post grinder book is the only place that I could find this in print. I am getting enough interest in this subject to do a follow up video where I go into more advanced use of the angles. I wanted to keep this one short and simple. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@howardosborne8647]

That is where the real benefit of this technique is. Reliably advancing 10ths when using the toolpost grinder.

[@aceroadholder2185]

This can be helpful as long as you remember that in addition to moving the tool radially you are also advancing it longitudinally. This can catch you out if you were fitting a bearing to a shoulder for example. You might end up with the diameter closely held but spoil the work by having the bearing's shoulder location out of spec. You can't use this method for cutting grooves either again because the tool is being moved sideways in the cut. You are left with using the cross feed screw dial or a dial indicator to establish the diameter required. Cheers from NC/USA

[@sharkrivermachine]

If you set at 30 degrees your longitudinal will be half which can be useful if your are trying to be very accurate. There is also an angle that you can use to convert to metric and get even finer resolution. This will be the subject of an advanced video on the subject. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@mikehart6708]

Thanks for this neat information. Whenever I hear guys talk about what they were taught in shop It makes me wish that I had had the opportunity to learn lathe and mill work from a knowledgeable instructor. Still, being self-taught has it's own advantages and the thrill of success can be very gratifying indeed. I really appreciate the willingness of old hands like yourself to help us neophytes. Thank you

[@sharkrivermachine]

You're very welcome! Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@johnswilley6764]

Mr. Lang, thank you. Great job of explaining the trigonometry behind the angle. When I want to get really fine accuracy I go for a 0.001 = 0.0001 setup, I'd have to go look it (the angle) up to give it to you, BUT I have the concept, and have done it, usually for interference fits, and my amusement. Best wishes Sir, and thanks again!

[@sharkrivermachine]

You are very welcome. The angle works out to approx 84 1/2, it is listed in the Dumor Grinder book. I didn't want to go that far into depth with this basic video. I have been considering another video covering different angles for different jobs. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@samalverio3157]

Thanks for reminding me of that I was told that when I was younger but forgot it..I have a 2 to 1 lathe now I don't have to worry about over cutting..thanks

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@AWDJRforYouTube]

As an apprenticed machinist I knew this, but didn't want anyone else to know, If I told them, I would have to kill them lol, great video Steve. Very good camera work, and it IS A PAIN reading the compound on the far side of the lathe. Very good back to basics series idea!

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is the way that I was feeling about this topic. I was not sure if it was so widely know that it was just accepted as standard operating procedure or whether it was a big secret. The cats out of the bag now. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@jameswagner3685]

Thanks for the tip, Steve. I had seen this before on Mr. Peet's Channel. However, Mr. Pete did not explain it as you have. It is nice to know why it works. Very helpful!

[@sharkrivermachine]

I found it on Mr. Petes channel after I produced this video. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@davidschwartz5127]

Thank you, I will definitely use your hack in my hobby machining projects!

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@Okie-Tom]

Very good info! I will use this with my lathe. Thanks, Tom

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@sparkiekosten5902]

So by setting the "compound slide" to 60 degrees you turn the "compound slide" to get the amount of thou of a diameter without needing to worry about halving the "cross slide" setting on a direct reading dial!.....Got it! So even us "metric folk" can use this as long as the dial on the "compound slide" is direct reading! If this above analogy is correct you have managed to teach me something! Now to look online for a graph for this to put on my lathe wall! Keep up the good work!

[@sharkrivermachine]

As long as your lathe has a direct reading dial it does not make any difference whether metric or imperial. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@vincentmiconi1869]

Glad I found your video. Have wondered for a long time why most lathes I saw had the compound on such an angle. Have learned a great tip! outstanding Video! Thanks for sharing. All the best!

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@kellybrown1860]

That was great you never stop learning thank you

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@JTL1313]

Steve, Mrpeet222 also covered some of this on Machine shop tips #90 splitting a hair on the Atlas lathe Tubalcain. Thanks for the videos.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for the info! I will check it out. I have included this video in my "Back To Basics" play list so that it will be easier to find. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@roysmith3198]

Check out shop tip # 232 now that one is really a good one. Mrpete222 is an awesome Teacher. over 1000 videos I'm going to look at # 90 right now.

[@roysmith3198]

You can start watching @ 6:32 Mrpete222 shop tip #232

[@roysmith3198]

Never mind I watched # 90

[@craigtate5930]

I was also thinking I had seen this tip before, but couldn't remember who. My instinct was joe pie. But clearly I was mistaken

[@brucebellows7772]

Very good video and a great lesson. I would like to add that Mr Pete aka Tubal Caine did a very similar video on how to remove 10th's of a thou using a standard lathe compound in the same manner in which you have done here.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for sharing! I found his video after I produced this one. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@danielmierop662]

Wow! Thank you so much. That will be remembered.

[@sharkrivermachine]

You're very welcome thank you for watching and commenting.

[@jgt5463]

Its been many years since I've had to deal with this issue. I believe it was an belt driven Atlas lathe. Though I was very proficient in right angle trigonometry, I found it much more practical to turn the numbers off the graduated collar and re-stamp the correct numbers to match the material removed from the diameter. After a halve a century of running lathes in over two dozen shops involving dozens of engine lathes, the only time this issue was encountered was with machines that were ancillary and not used for the purpose of primary production.Lathes of this deficiency would not have been long tolerated by serious machinist, only hobbyist.

[@sharkrivermachine]

The target of this video is my regular viewing base that are primarily self taught home shop machinists using older rebuilt bench top lathes. In my professional career most of the machining that I did was precision grinding on purpose built machines so this was not a factor. However I learned the lathe as a teenager on a 9" South Bend bench top. This is just another tool to add to the toolbox of the manual machinist. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@redhousetn73]

I literally just showed our setup guy at work this technique a few days ago. Thanks for sharing!

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is great. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@redhousetn73]

@@sharkrivermachine Absolutely! I had to comment when I heard the tip. Thats some old school knowledge you're sharing. Kudos, sir...

[@markthompson4885]

Thank you very much for that info. I will be definitely checking and setting all my lathes for this set up.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@shawnbottom4769]

Ok. Just a few minutes in to the vid and already I have to make a few comments. Journeyman job shop machinist here. There are some valid concepts here for a home shop but not when you’re trying to make chips to make money. First of all Mr Rucker implies that cross slide dials are graduated by radius and by and large they are by diameter. Second while it’s true you can use the compound to trig an infeed, if you’re working to a shoulder you have lost your face reference. Third, most home shops have either worn second-hand equipment or cheap imports. So keep in mind that that kind of equipment will not hold a tolerance that close across a significant bed travel. If you’re trying to split thousandths in those cases you might be better off polishing with emery.

[@sharkrivermachine]

My typical viewer is a home shop machinist that is using an older bench top lathe that is direct reading. As an apprentice machinist 50 years ago this was one of the first lessons that I was taught on a lathe. This video has gone viral and reached a far larger audience than is the norm for my channel. Nobody has a problem setting the compound at 29 to 30 degrees to cut threads. The compound is also set at 86 1/2 degrees for precision tool post grinding. This is just another tool to add to the tool box to increase the resolution of the dials on a direct reading lathe dial. Thanks for watching.

[@JourneymanRandy]

I had a little knowledge about this. Now thanks to you I know more. I will try to remember. Resolution and accuracy sometimes get interchanged but don't mean the same. Thanks Steven

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@SimonHollandfilms]

Thank you... 60 degree compound....but is your tool still parallel to the work?

[@sharkrivermachine]

Yes, it is. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@robertmccully2792]

There use to be a lot of trig math in carpentry. Stairs, arch windows, octagon houses, roofs, hill side homes with stepped foundations, and on and on. I skipped my apprenticeship and got in as a journeyman... self taught.. Lots of books, lots of trial and error.. Get a plan of up to 150 pages and go to town... miss it now.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@stuartashers]

I have to get that little black book. Lucky my machine shop sells them. I kind of guessed thats why the tool post has a set of degrees under it. But as stated nothing is shown till now. I can now get more from my lathe thank you for doing this awesome Video huge 👍 from Australia.

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is just one if many settings. Don't forget to set your compound at 29 for regular threading and 14 for Acme threads. Not to mention those short tapers that you need to turn. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@stuartashers]

@@sharkrivermachine threading is somthing I tried once but do have the need. Especially tapers. Thank you for showing such information. I'll keep my eyes open for more of your videos 👍

[@jittychitty]

First video of the day... and it was awesome... thanks!

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad you liked it! Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@sierraspecialtyauto7049]

Good info, Steve. As you say, other creators have hinted at this but I've never seen where anyone else fully explained it. Thanks.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad it was helpful! Thanks for stopping by.

[@hilltopmachineworks2131]

And to think all the students in 11th grade geometry class were saying " We will never use this stuff again. Geometry strikes again. Thanks Steve.

[@sharkrivermachine]

You are right about that. Thank you for stopping by.

[@TechnikMeister2]

I think it depends on what country you were taught your Fitting and Machining. We in Australia were always told to measure and cut as a proportion to the radius, not the diameter. Even in drawings they would show the radius of a round part. This avoided all the confusion. My son did his qualification a few years ago and it was all computer controlled and laser measured and the accuracy and precision that can be achieved is way beyond the old mechanical lathes adjustments. He was always told to reindex the bed of a lathe once a week. Just a smear of oil will affect accruacy.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@berionggorilya6010]

Tnx man,for sharing your years of experience to the young ones!!

[@sharkrivermachine]

My pleasure! Thank you for watching.

[@Unrivaledanime]

If I’m not wrong and I could be but I kinda remember Mr Pete talking about this anyway thank you so much it’s always a pleasure learning

[@sharkrivermachine]

He very well may have but to look through 1000 videos to find it was a bit of a daunting task LOL. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@tobarapprentice6618]

I remember Mr. Pete talking about it as well...... way back!

[@millwrightrick1]

As a retired millwright I had to learn this at trade school. Trigonometry was required for those learning to be machinists and millwrights just for this reason. Same with using a sine bar to calculate angles.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I was training as a machinist in the late 60's and received my degree in Mechanical Engineering in 1974. We learned the basics and how to apply them Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@darrylhudson4499]

Van Keuren, who makes precision gage pins, has some pretty old equipment, but the employees there compensate similarly by setting the cylindrical grinders above center so that the dials have a higher resolution like what you’re doing here with the compound on the lathe.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@EnoRestoration]

This is a helpful post. Thank you.

[@holry7778]

Great stuff. Well explained. You should expand that same concept for how to take sub 0.001" cut off using the same idea. Set the needed angle so 1 unit on the dial is now 0.0001" of cutter advance.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I considered it but wanted to keep the video short and did not want to complicate the issue. An idea for an advanced follow up video, maybe. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@robertmccully2792]

I was a carpenter that used a skill-saw.. you can only turn the table angle of the saw up to 45 cut.. So if you first cut a 45 then set the saw to 15. You could cut a 60 with the second cut, by cutting on the 45 cut,, if you can follow that.

[@sharkrivermachine]

That works or cut it at 30 and turn it upside down LOL. thanks for watching and commenting.

[@kerrywil1]

Thank you for the effort doing this video. A very nice job explaining it. I am going out and setting my compound tp 60 degrees

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@rpmunlimited397]

I believe MRPETE did a similar video years ago showing how to take tenths off on a atlas or craftsman lathe. Still good information for those of us with limited equipment to remember. Thanks

[@sharkrivermachine]

Yes he did I found it after I produced this video. I have found a couple of others but they did not develop it completely. I am considering doing a follow up showing the advantages of using some additional angles to further increase the resolution. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@IMSAIGuy]

Nice trick. I hadn't heard it anywhere

[@sharkrivermachine]

Happy to help. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@richardfriedrich4766]

Thanks Steve Very good info on how to dial in your cuts! Richard

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad it was helpful! Thanks for stopping by.

[@andrewevans1658]

Great video! Mr Pete or TOT mentioned it older videos but I dont think they touched on the math aspect . I learned it in college 30 years ago but it wasn't in any of our textbooks just something the instructor mentioned one day. I need to get your cutters shipped tomorrow!!! This week flew by!

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for the up-date, I have not been home to get them anyway. Looking forward to it. They will be featured in my next Shark Bits. Thanks for watching, commenting, and supporting my channel.

[@roysmith3198]

Mr pete does on Machine Shop tip # 90

[@MrKotBonifacy]

Well, TOT not only "mentioned it", but he also EXPLAINED it, in depth, with maths, trigonometry (or Trygon O'Metry in his words) and all. See "A Sine Bar Walks Into a... wait" video of his. For your convenience here's the link configured to start at 17:07, where he moves "from the classroom" to the lathe: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoCQcpVtjst1sLs (although I recommend to watch the video in its entirety.) For those of you impatient and with that nowadays fancy "life's too short for..." issue (a.k.a. ADHD ;-) you can skip directly to 19:29, where he shows that "trick". And, BTW, I do not really understand that "trick" (or "hack") aura about that simple and plain solution - in fact I see it as a rather "obvious thing", with a capital "O". I mean, it's got the same "ingenuity" to it as splitting tough firewood with a heavy hammer and an axe used as a wedge, or a (simpler still) "trick" of smashing the axe stuck into that piece of firewood on a hard rock, upside down (so the weight, or rather a kinetic energy of that piece of wood, acts as a hammer driving the axe even deeper). Or as ingenuous as using a water bucket (normally used for carrying water) to keep the water AWAY - like, "away from your head during rain- and hailstorm". In other words, it would just come naturally, in my opinion, to anyone familiar with "how a lathe works" and familiar with a "western way" of cutting threads on a lathe. "Western ways" - kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpPCc4iIgdp8bZI - and I'm referring to it in that manner, because as one can easily see (or rather, "can't see it") on Russian videos about cutting threads, they never bother with that superfluous "set your compound at an angle of so and so". They just plunge in, straight on - and "no problemo, amigo" (or rather "всё нормально, ребята", or "поехали" - but I digress here...). You can see for yourself: kzbin.info/www/bejne/faO9iZ5nhbiDh8U (cutting metric M122x4 external thread on a pipe) - observe, at 3:20, how he placed another cutter to cut a chamfer the outer edge while cutting internal thread; kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIKWmotvi6ynh9E - cutting some details with M16x1,5 thread (yes, that's correct - in most of Europe and in Russia a comma is used as a decimal point); kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWnYhaydprWcfrc (cutting trapezoid thread on a long rod meant for a "gears cutter"). kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYGrmJRpiqZ-p5Y (cutting 6 TPI "imperial" thread on a cone - observe the threading tool and hand operation of the compound) Those are short videos, around 10 mins. each, with minimal talking - and here you got longer ones, with a bit more of explaining (but once you'll learn Russian you'll be able to enjoy them in full extent ;-) kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4KwnatqpbVrebM - trapezoid metric thread Tr 48x6 (means OD = 48 mm, thread "step" is 6 mm) kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5zbpqVrjbZleJY - bronze nut ("Гайка", pron. "gayka") of the same thread, but for a different rods. And if you really want to see really cool "tricks" or "hacks" you should check those videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3yQoYd3d9pgiLs - making wood-splitting "drill cone" - cutting thread "by hand" How to do milling "and everything" on a regular lathe: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYLEpKZsfdeLhNE kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3mofnSQq6t0rNk kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4KTq3qgjsqrgas kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4GbiZponZ6sfZY kzbin.info/www/bejne/mISYgWatoLSBbZo kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJCce52aq695qJo Here's kinda "funny job" - in short, once upon the time there was a fish-eye nut with internal thread M24 - but as unavailable fish-eye bolt 5/8" 11 TPI was needed, that metric fish-eye nut was transformed, by this very turner, into said "imperial" fish-eye bolt. And then it lived happily ever af... well, actually not - some time latter it "turned out" that..."See, pal, we need urgently a fish-eye nut, size... oh, how did you guessed it? Yep, M24 - but with a tad higher load rating. And it is not available right now, and we need it, like, for yesterday". In other words, "From Joan to Johnny and Back" ("Ladies and children, please avert your eyes"): kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJWkZoZ5jLqjjJI Here's "how to turn bigger an internal diameter in ball bearing" - the thing is, that original ("soviet era" - ?) bearing with ID = 36,3 mm needs to be replaced, but they are no longer made ("they don't sell them any more" as Slava explained) - and nearest-size "hopeful candidate for bearing replacement" has an ID = 35 mm. So, how would one grab the bearing in the chuck? Oh, it's elementary, my dear Watson... (or "I hate such jobs", as Mr Slava said himself.) How to turn and thread 45° (or 135°) fuel connector: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnOwdZ-Ca6mVfdU How to turn and thread 3D/ 3 x 90° connector on a regular lathe w. 3 jaws chuck, you're about to see in a video aptly named "Каверзная токарка" ("Tricky Turning"): p.1.: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWPEfXaBf750kLM p.2.: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3fGp4h8pcalncU OK, 'nuff for today - my post is becoming tad long, I guess... So, enjoy! (And no, I'm not affiliated to those Russian fellows in any way, and I'm not even Russian myself - I just admire their hacks and skills - and their ingenuity.) Best, KB

[@johnswilley6764]

Steve, I had to look it up, yes, 84.2608. And then confirm with my Swiss Interapid test indicator (Hey, I'm retired : - ), and this is not something I regularly do, but it's good to have those tools in the box, figuratively and literally.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank for watching and commenting.

[@charlescartwright6367]

Good information, I didn't know it was hard to come by as I have used that method for years along with a shear bit to go sub thousands on small parts. The limitation is how thin of a cut you can make, tool bit geometry...

[@sharkrivermachine]

It is one of those things that seems to be common knowledge among machinists but not found in any of the videos so new comers may not get the information. I will be doing a more advanced follow up that will go into finer resolution on the dials for more accurate precision cuts. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@bluehandsvideo]

Great video!! Very interesting! I would have just guessed that if the compound went straight in for the full cut and setting it at 90 degrees would cause a 0 cut....the angle would have been 45. Thanks for the explanation of the math and the demonstration of the cut!! Mike

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is what I thought that I remembered and it did not work so I calculated it out and decided to produce this video. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@bluehandsvideo]

@@sharkrivermachine LOL....okay, I don't feel so bad for thinking that 45deg was the obvious answer. Thanks!!

[@TonyRule]

@@bluehandsvideo Here's a handy number to remember: 0.7071 - that's the relative length of each of the other sides to the hypotenuse of a 45° triangle.

[@bluehandsvideo]

@@TonyRule LOL.....hhmmm.....many years ago when I actually knew electronics, that's the number you use to get the RMS value of a peak sine wave.....which I'm sure correlates to a 45deg triangle somehow. Thanks!!!! I'll try to keep that in mind. :)

[@bcbloc02]

Trig is the most useful higher everyday math.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Certainly is. It is a very useful tool in the shop. I try to keep it simple because not all of the new hobby machinists will have an engineering education. I am getting a lot of feedback that has me inspired to take this concept to the next level and even higher resolution. Thanks for your continued support of my channel by watching and commenting.

[@roysmith3198]

Yes. I'm just now learning about sine, cosine and tangent. Just happen to be on the 30 60 Right Triangle. Been going over in my head all day, sin 0/h cosine a/h tan o/a. what a trip seeing this today as well.

[@gangleweed]

@@roysmith3198 I have a simple code that I memorised 60 + years ago that was taught to me by my late father who was a tool maker. The sine, cosine and tangent abreviations are AH, BH, VB........memorise them and you will always have the relative formula at your fingertips. The relationship of the sides are for the sine......AH...Adjacent over the Hypotenuse, ......cosine, BH.....Base over the Hypotenuse, Tangent......VB.....Vertical over the Base. If you engrave the AH BH VB on the back of your ruler, that all engineers carry with them on a machine, you will always have it available while your memory is maturing. Of course, you still have to have the tables available to calculate the end product etc.

[@facecomc3484]

Sin,Cos,Tan Olly Has, A Handful, Of Apples

[@roysmith3198]

@@facecomc3484 Yes. That will be easy to remember. Thank you very much.

[@James-fs4rn]

👍 old school rules. Recommend folks use a nice sharp HSS bit to experiment with light cuts as some insert tooling doesn't perform well unless it's taking a heavy enough cut. Or the movement could be proven with an indicator. Thanks for sharing.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@robertmccully2792]

The hardest thing for any teacher that has mastered his art is teaching the basics. To them it is so basic they do not realize there doing it anymore. I cut compound angles on roofs for many years, its the same theory as this but in feet and fractions of inches. The construction master calculator does the trig functions,, but the buttons are rise, run and pitch. But good tip, i did not know this, or every even wondered about it.

[@sharkrivermachine]

You are right about that.

[@BundyBearsShed]

Great information for beginners for sure especially if there is no DRO

[@sharkrivermachine]

You are right about that. Thanks for stopping by.

[@priority2]

Thanks so much for this very informative video Steve! I appreciate all of your tutorials 👍😊

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad you like them! Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@rodbutler9864]

Outstanding, thank you Sir.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@lawrencewillard6370]

Saw a video on this before, but not as well presented. As a newbie, all advice as good as this welcome. Thanks.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad you enjoyed it!, thanks for watching and commenting.

[@MattysWorkshop]

Gday Steve, thank you for explaining this, certainly a great tip to know about, I’ve never seen this before, Thanks Steve

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you Matty

[@nascar20970]

Thanks for doing the math, 60 degrees setting on the lathe tomorrow .

[@sharkrivermachine]

Hope you enjoy it! Thanks for stopping by.

[@georgesbasementshop1240]

Fantastic Video. i learnt something.. Thank you :)

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting

[@phippsto]

Thanks Steve. Great lesson.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad you liked it!

[@nathanroberson]

Ok you set up a 2:1 ratio. But you can set your compound to achieve may ratios that are helpful. I find the 4:1 ratio nice to use, especially when I D boring.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Just trying to keep it simple for this back to basics video. There has been a lot of interest so I will be producing an advanced video with additional information. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@laurencep3757]

Thanks for the information. Very interesting. Its a trick that I will use myself. For close tolerance work I use a DTI on the tool post. This can be a pain to set up. Again, thanks.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@wayneacaron8744]

STEVEN, i use 84 deg from perpindicular/ 6 deg converging. i get 1/10000 per thou on dial! i like to sneak up on demension SLOWLY poppy"s workshop says HI p.s. i posted an entire series on this subject

[@sharkrivermachine]

I will be developing that in a follow up video. I wanted to keep this one as simple as possible. The sneak up approach can burn you. Have to be careful. Check out Stefan Gotteswinter video on the subject. I use the same approach as he does, Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@johnjenkins2315]

Thanks for your informative video, found it very interesting.👍

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@johnjenkins2315]

R. Steven Lang, Shark River Machine. Hi Steven, I’m in my mid seventies and was a maintenance engineer with a company who manufactured a range of products from brush ware to plastic products quite a broad range. Most of my work entailed maintaining the different machines along with a team of others. I did have limited time with lathe and mill work but it’s not till I retired that I have had a chance to do more of this sort of work, (for my own use and enjoyment) that I now follow different people on the Tube and now I’m having a better understanding of the technology that involved. Cheers John.

[@JohnDavidDunlap]

This is an amazing tip!

[@sharkrivermachine]

Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@matspatpc]

Of course, depending on how your lathe measures angles, it may well be 30 degrees. Same as "when cutting threads, set it to 60 degrees so you only cut on one side", turns to 30 degrees. I have a lathe that tells me how much I'm taking off "both sides", so I don't need to do this particular trick for THIS reason. There are times when you want to use this anyway, for taking small cuts off the part for example.

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is absolutely correct. i have not ever used a lathe that has the angles marked in reverse however I do know that they are out there. I have been told that some of the Asian Import lathes may be marked that way. This method is particularly useful on the popular Atlas and South Bend bench top lathes that have the small graduated dials. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@glennfelpel9785]

Very well done. Thank You

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting

[@rudolfreinsch3470]

You could also calculate an angle to convert from imperial to metric and vice versa

[@sharkrivermachine]

Yes that is true and may be the subject of an advanced video on the subject. I confused enough viewers with this one. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@32thedoctor]

@@sharkrivermachine If viewers were confused by that perhaps they should stay away from machining. That was a simple and clear presentation.

[@davidl.579]

I shall try it first thing monday morning, thanks.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@JamesDedmon]

That’s interesting, I never seen that, in fact the person who was my mentor always set his cross slide at 30 degrees for threading. However the tolerances that he worked in back then in his primary work didn’t need to be as close. Probably.001 to .002 was close as we needed to be for the parts we made

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is the great thing about this hobby, we learn something every day. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@howardosborne8647]

The reason he had his compound set around to 30° is to follow the advancing DOC along the trailing flank of the 60degree angle thread being cut. Still useful to know what the incremental advancement is for 30 degrees,though.

[@throngcleaver]

@@howardosborne8647 Exactly, and I was taught to set it to 29.5°, so the back side of the cutter wouldn't drag on the freshly cut surface.

[@howardosborne8647]

@@throngcleaver Yep! I was taught the same setup as an apprentice.

[@greglaroche1753]

That was a very interesting and informative video. Thanks. I have been wondering if I can use the compound, when it is set at 29* for cutting threads. It would nice to know how much material was being removed each time it was cut deeper. So far I’ve only seen people guessing how much they are really taking until the the nut or bolt fits. Is there a more exacting way to do it ? Thanks.

[@donaldnaymon3270]

Thank you for video. Thank you for sharing.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching!

[@jerryquigg3497]

HINT: For reading the far side compound and other vision issues I mounted a cheap Chinese digital microscope (Bangood Mustool G600) on a magnetic indicator base. This works amazingly well for tired old eyes.

[@sharkrivermachine]

That sounds like a plan. I still don't know why they didn't scribe both sides. I guess that would make it too easy. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@MyHeap]

Great tutorial Steve. The only place I remember reading it was in one of the Workshop Practice Series how to run a lathe book. Good stuff brother!

[@sharkrivermachine]

I actually looked for it and could not find it except in the Dumore tool post grinding instruction manual. Thanks for stopping by.

[@CraigsWorkshop]

@@sharkrivermachine Steven, it's on page 54 of "Lathework - A Complete Course" by Harold Hall (book 34)

[@AdventureswithJane]

Excellent video, great information. Subscribed. Thanks. 😎 -Mark

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for the sub, watching and commenting.

[@yt66228]

They talked about this back in the 80s in the home shop machinist magazine.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting

[@chrisj4570g]

Very nice! I’ll be giving this a try

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting. Don't hesitate to ask questions.

[@chrisj4570g]

R. Steven Lang, Shark River Machine ok, mr fancy pants, 😆is .0005 gonna be 30 degrees? Or does the math not work that way? I suck at math.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Doesn't work that way. The steeper the angle the finer the resolution. As you approach 90 degrees the tool bit travel approaches 0. At 75 degrees .001 on the dial gives you .000518 on the diameter.

[@larrymatsumoto7730]

Excellent video

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you very much!

[@yelims20]

"Machinist Bedside Reader" by Guy LeTard. Get all three volumes.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Sounds like a plan. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@jamesdavis8021]

I hope you have deep pockets.Amazon doesn’t have it and E-bay will cost close to $300,or more for all three volumes.

[@williamstyers4264]

@@jamesdavis8021 Not really, Just ordered a set from HPB-Emerald thru Amazon for $60 plus change. Paperbacks used but in good condition. I also suggest some of the older Machinery's Handbook. The older volumes are full of info that the new editions don't have. BTW I am a retired Master Machinist with over 40 years in the shop.

[@TonyUrryMakes]

Great trick! Thanks!

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@danarrington2224]

Most guys use a mag base indicator to make small adjustments on a manual lathe or mill if they don't have a DRO. Especially if it's an old machine that has a lot of slop.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I do that also but the subject of another video. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@aeromech8563]

Awesome stuff your a legend🙏

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@Just1GuyMetalworks]

Yeah, if you end up needing to take a .0025" cut or something that method can come in really handy, especially if you have an Atlas with really hard to read dials lol. Thanks for sharing 👍😁👍.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I try to hit my number taking a heavier cut and this helps a lot. When you try to sneak up on a size it is recipe for disaster. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@whatupg1]

Great video, it has been covered by one of the popular KZbin machinists. I can't remember who. It has been sometime since I have watched it. I seem to remember the angle being quite small from the axis of the head to make very accurate cuts. Maybe it was Joe pie?

[@sharkrivermachine]

I am sure that it has but I could not find it. Mr. Pete talked about it a little in one of his lathe videos. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@garyc5483]

Great tip thanks for sharing. Still trying to figure how KR came up with the .001" is relative to 1mm ?? It is actually 0.0254mm. Stay safe. regards from the UK

[@sharkrivermachine]

I actually saw a video on the subject of imperial vs. metric and how they evolved. It was very interesting. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@michedmck]

Keith used "units" for comparison. He didn't say 1 thou equals 1mm. It simply meant that advancing one unit radially (whether imperial or metric) would result in a 2-unit diametral reduction. Hope this is clear.

[@roysmith3198]

Watch Mrpete shop tip #232 start watching @ 6:32 for a Great tip. You'll be glad you did.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for the information, watching and commenting. I will be including this in an advanced video on the subject. Didn't want to make it too confusing. On the Atlas lathe the angle is 84 degrees not 6.

[@TonyRule]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKjRfWiDncqVq7c

[@robertmccully2792]

Last one ,,what carpenters never told you... when you cut a hip,, you have to make a drop cut on the bottom of the hip level cut or you will be to high off the plate. Because a common rafter is at a 90 to the ridge but a hip is at a 45. Or you have to cut bevel cuts on the hip rafter. Simple to me, but i am sure very complicated to those that have not done it yet. Wish they had KZbin when i was doing my trade.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I have done a fair bit of carpentry but not enough to get comfortable with the framing square.

[@robertmccully2792]

R. Steven Lang, Shark River Machine speed square and calculator. Framing square only for stairs because it’s big. Everyone thinks carpenters are dummies,, I was the layout guy.. takes 5 years till you think you know what your doing , and then a life time to figure out the other million sides of things, like bridges, tilt ups, poured in place walls..it’s endless.

[@michael7324]

Very informative.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@montyzumazoom1337]

Did you also learn to sharpen tools to get a good finish? Did you also learn to read a micrometer when checking diameters accurately as opposed to a vernier calliper?

[@sharkrivermachine]

I have been a machinist for 50 years. I have had training in most of the machine shop skills plus a degree in Mechanical Engineering. I used the Digital caliper in this `video because it is easier to see on screen. Thanks for watching.

[@montyzumazoom1337]

R. Steven Lang, Shark River Machine Thought I hit a nerve there😂 it was all said a bit tongue in cheek.... Skilled Toolmaker 45 years plus, ok you got more years than me so I admit defeat😢

[@neilbrown3359]

This is mainly used for threading to ease tool pressure

[@sharkrivermachine]

That is true the the angle is not the same. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@MaturePatriot]

Great tutorial. Resolution increase in a good thing.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I will do an advanced video on this and increase the resolution even further. Thanks for watching, commenting and supporting my channel.

[@smolville]

The lathes where that might be a problem don't have a compound anyway. If you really want to be accurate, use an indicator.

[@sharkrivermachine]

There are many ways to accomplish accuracy. This is just one of them. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@MCEngineeringInc]

Neat tip! Thanks for sharing. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@geckoproductions4128]

Thanks! Very good to know

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@petewerner1494]

Did not know this,,,, Thank you !

[@sharkrivermachine]

Thanks for watching and commenting.