LDS Church Just Added Amazing Grace to its Hymnal-But What’s Missing?

[@GLM]

CORRECTION: The 7th stanza wasn't originally penned by Newton! I missed that detail (in hindsight, it explains why I sometimes saw 6 stanzas, and sometimes saw 7. I should have looked into that more!).

[@gbengoosewuru4139]

You should look into a lot of things more.

[@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist]

Seems that the norm would be to have the full song in print in front of us and then the choice is made as to how much to sing. Altering what’s in print in front of us doesn’t surprise me in the LDS church. Joseph Smith even wanted to alter the Bible as well.

[@ErC-oj6rc]

When a Noblewoman was locked up, and left to starve for holding up two Fingers instead of Three was it Grace then to allow it too happen, or is it Grace now that people today regard her as a martyr for Christ despite once being regarded as a Heretic? Your endeavors are about as Christian as that was, the only difference is the Western Enlightenment put the Kibosh on certain forms of Socio Political Behaviors that used to be Appropriate, and now its about who can appear to have more Fruits then another, and win in the Public Opinions.

[@JamesIronhawk]

Quick correction, not every stanza written by Newton is sung by every christian or even sung in the same order, many hymnals omit stanzas, and also the last stanza you read wasn't written by Newton.

[@GLM]

Yeah - that's absolutely true, we tend to like 4 verse hymns ha (though, in the few Christian hymnals I quickly referenced, they had 6 or 7). I'm less concerned about omitting/rearranging the stanzas and more substantially concerned with the theological dissonance between LDS thinking and the lyrics/authorial intent of the hymn. And ah! That explains why so many places have only 6 of the 7. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll pin a comment about it.

[@45s262]

​@@GLM you're less concerned about omitting yet it's in bold letters in the title, "WHAT THEY LEFT OUT" 🤔 🤔 LOOKS TO ME LIKE YOU GOT FOILED and now you're back tracking..😂😂

[@maxfrost9028]

@@45s262are you here to listen to God’s word or criticize?

[@answertohappiness]

"The hour I first BELIEVED ." I'm sure that's the real reason that they left that out. Because there's so much more to getting saved in mormonism than just believing in Jesus Christ. Every day, I thank God for what he has done and for showing me the truth.

[@jGeothro]

I do appreciate the engagement with our beliefs, but honestly, I’ve found that trying to talk with some Evangelicals is just exhausting and pointless (or even counterproductive for them) because they already *~KNOW~* what’s in the hearts and minds of *every* Latter-day Saint and often just accuse and belittle over things that we don’t even believe in the first place. Broadly speaking, having a bit of humility when talking about the beliefs of others would be incredibly effective for Evangelical outreach. I think that approach is largely why your everyday Latter-day Saint will actually listen to Evangelical channels like Hello Saints and not others that just tear down and misconstrue.

[@davidchristensen-qg2ut]

The proper attitude is NOT "after all we can do" or have to do. It is that His grace is so wonderful and fills us with so much Joy that we now "GET TO DO" all we can do to praise, worship, and bring glory to God and Jesus Christ and to go on God's errands. What a privilege!! Saved by Grace takes away any sin-tainted selfish motivations and attitudes that we are earning it ourselves by works and keeping the law--a prideful attitude that might survive in the back of our minds. It also puts to rest the urge to boast about ourselves in subtle self-righteous and sanctimonious ways, and to judge others thinking they are not doing enough. Christ did it all. We boast in Christ alone. Salvation is a work only God can do and Christ started then finished it perfectly.

[@dfoster4234]

Great video sir.

[@cheyaweber704]

At 14:12 you make it sound like Grace might lead Latter-Day Saints to a lower kingdom if they are not worthy and keep the commandments. Wouldn't that be true of anyone who professes they have been saved by grace? There were several times you mentioned keeping the commandments. Isn't that works? I really enjoyed your video and your knowledge of the scriptures. Many Latter-day Saints go through a very strong feeling and change when we are converted to the gospel; when we realize the goodness of God's Grace. You briefly mentioned covenants. Covenants have been a part of Christianity from the beginning and are connected with the Ark of the Covenant, the Holy of Holies. Making covenants with God is a gift to us and another expression of His Grace. That is something you may never understand. You show a fair interpretation of the LDS belief, but you don't give us credit for our hope that comes because of Grace. It surprises me that you are surprised that this beautiful song is in the hymn book. I listen to this song just about every night before going to bed and am flooded with feelings of gratefulness for all that God has done for me and for you and for everyone. I think it will be glorious to live in his presence and not boring at all. I look forward to His loving embrace and kneeling before Him washing His feet with my tears. What joy will fill my heart. I do not believe Christ will sit on His throne throughout eternity and listen to concourses of angels sing His praise non-stop. I think we will be learning about the cosmos, the intricate workings of the human body, the creation process, etc. I look forward to reading scriptures kept by the Lost Ten Tribes, talking with great thinkers, learning about different periods in history in other areas of the earth. And the list goes on and on. I personally want to learn about Justice and its role in our lives. I look forward to having a resurrected body that will not hurt or have any ailments. Just think - a mind that can remember the things I'm learning. I agree with you about the beauties that will surround us and the joy we will receive from a beauty that is beyond our comprehension at this stage of our development. What wondrous things lay ahead?! I say that as both a question and an exclamation.

[@sethvernon6828]

I'm so glad I wasn't brought up in a false religion that would hold my critical thinking hostage forever because of the imbedded indoctrination from youth that would be difficult to break. I know there is only ONE Hope as the Bible states, not 3 class levels as if Heaven were like the Titanic. No, we all will be in one place of heaven, or the other place where our adversary and his fallen angels will dwell forever.

[@michaelhall3485]

O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities. I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me. And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted. My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep. He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh. Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul. Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions. Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation. O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin? May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road! O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way-but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy. O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

[@shaunsvideo]

LDS theology is not incoherent whiplash. It's quite straightforward. We are saved by grace. No one, not one person in authority, would ever deny that. But we believe that because Christ bought us with a price, he has given us conditions for salvation. These are not conditions for paying the price of sin. They are conditions for receiving the gift that has already been purchased. This is not unbiblical. In fact, it is more Biblical than the Evangelical choice to completely ignore half of the New Testament. Jesus says we must keep his commandments, be baptized, repent, have faith, love God, love our neighbor, give to the poor, pray always, worship the Father, and many other things. These are required for salvation. The saddest part of this whole discussion is that the price is already paid. It has been paid from the foundation of the world. Justice is satisfied. All we have to do is keep his commandments. And he helps us even with that! Ironic that Protestants spend so much effort (dare I say work) trying to prove we don't need works.

[@Tiberius-]

Different Grace

[@GLM]

I wasn't saying it *was* incoherent, I was saying that the different emphasis that different members place on different things can be initially confusing for those outside the LDS Church. (Didn't Kimball deny that when he said that it was a doctrine invented by Satan?). Re: conditions for receiving the gift - there is a single condition. Faith. Works proceed from faith (a la James 2), but they are not a prerequisite for eternal life. Romans 4:4-5 speaks well to this: "Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,"

[@JerkerSvensson-c1d]

It is interesting to listen to this 0:08 presentation. Firstly: Few texts give so much support for Grace. John Newton had experienced grace and pictured it in Amazing Grace. I love Amazing Grace! But that does not mean that this hymn covers all parts of our salvation. It is not holy scripture, it is a hymn. Secondly; holy scriptures emphasize both grace and works, particularly in NT. Here is the simple key! We dont need a fight whether it is grace OR works that will save us. It is Jesus Chist that, by grace, can save us on condition of our faith in Him. He paid it all, yes. Faith in Jesus is expressed by obedience to the commandments and laws, works, love and service to other of Gods children. Many other things are required of us as explained in holy writ. We have to do our part as intelligent beings. How could it be otherwise? Thirdly; therefore there is no contradiction between Kimball and Wilcox. They just emphasize different parts of the Gospel in their talks.

[@pattyhugenberg-ph6cv]

You need to give up joseph Smith he was a false prophet.

[@jwlindsey]

Ephesians 2:10 discussed the need for works. Rev 20:12 adds to Ephesians 2:8-10. We are saved by grace. We are judged by our works.

[@DannyAGray]

Amazing Grace was in the LDS hymn book for a long time - I think until the 70s. It's been a hot one to bring back

[@GLM]

I know it was in Emma Smith's hymnbook back in 1841, but I don't believe it's been in an official LDS hymnal since then. Happy to be wrong - would love to see a source on that if you have it.

[@MattTheBandGuy]

The green LDS hymn book came out in 1985. Prior to that the church as using the 1948 hymn book.

[@AyeAyeAyeCaptain]

Excellent presentation. May God bless this ministry and the individuals and families involved, and may He also remove the blinding spiritual veil from the eyes of the indoctrinated LDS so they can see the true nature of our glorious Creator, without beginning or end. I pray for those indoctrinated and worshipping idols in place of the Everlasting God to have their eyes opened and be saved. It is so easy, and yet because it is so easy, the pride and the doubt of the human with the inherited sin nature becomes a stumbling block and they complicate it. "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. " (2 Cor 11:3-4) "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. " (Mark 7:7) Romans 10:3, “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

[@BNichols021]

It has also been my experience that many LDS do not look forward to eternity for the same reasons that Christians do. But if God really is the source of all that is good and beautiful, then there truly could be nothing more fulfilling than being in His glorious presence and worshipping Him eternally. Anything else would fall short because its goodness and beauty is merely derived from something even greater.

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

I agree. Christians look forward to Heaven because of what they get out of it. The LDS look forward to Heaven for what they help may put into it. This means they desire to do what God asks them to do in Heaven. They will work, sacrifice, go through refining, pain, stretching and growth for the good of all mankind. Because they believe all mankind are children of God.

[@BNichols021]

@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1mit is not just for us. God wants us to worship Him, that’s why we were created

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

​​@@BNichols021But let's think about this for a minute. Why do you worship God just because he wants you to worship him? Because HE is Holy right? Why is he Holy? Because HE is all powerful, merciful and just? What does he do with his power? Forgive YOU, provide YOU with eternal comfort and ease? You can't work around this Brandon. You worship God because of what he does for YOU! Would you still worship God if he was all powerful, just and merciful but decided he would only randomly save a few and YOU were randomly excluded from salvation? Would you worship God if he decided Heaven would NOT be an easy place. That there would be endless sorrow there? I don't think you would worship God in these circumstances. Would you? You will probably say God wouldn't be JUST and MERCIFUL if he didn't save YOU. Yet you still describe God as those things even though He won't save the majority of his creation because you care about YOUR salvation. You still say God is Merciful and Just when it follows through in your belief system that God won't save Mormons, Jews, Muslims, JWs, Catholics, anyone who has too different of an opinion then your sola scriptura opinion. You worship God because of what he has done for YOU. And in an eternal sense, you will not care about the majority of mankind after this life as long as YOU are happy in Heaven. Because, as you have said before, it will be impossible for YOU to be unhappy in Gods presence. Am I wrong? Why don't just accept the fact that after this life, you will only care about YOUR happiness (and the few that are in Heaven). That is where your beliefs take you. I want to talk through this so please don't ignore me.

[@sethvernon6828]

@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m you will only care about YOUR happiness? So from that statement, that is how you feel. Personally. Why are you trying to impute that belief on everyone else? It seems like your current world view is you only care about your own happiness. Those that have love will love when others are happy, this is what billions of moms the world over would have for their children. But if all you care about is YOUR YOUR happiness , that is where YOUR beliefs take you and that is very sad. God doesn't care about which religion we belong or none at all. I for one, have no religion. I have no church. I have no body of elected, appointed or "inspired" leadership that I would trust, accept or believe anyway. We have salvation, the way the truth and life through Jesus, not from religion. So religion will not save us. The men in charge will not save us. Their words, ideas, traditions or personal revelations will not save us. The gospel of Grace we read in Romans 10:9 or 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 or from Jesus John 3:15-16 is how we know this day we are saved without having to 'guess' or 'wonder' or 'work towards' is truly by this Amazing Grace.

[@johngenis344]

Thank you very much this was a wonderful way to show the distinct difference between true Christianity and the heretical false teachings of Mormonism simple but in depth enough to make it very clear keep up the great work that you're doing it's necessary in a big way today with the LDS Church spending incredible amounts of money to flood social media the internet in every possible avenue they can to try to justify their teachings as legitimate and the true teachings we receive from God for eternal salvation God bless you amen

[@jamesbaldwin7676]

Oh please!..the "LDS" hymnal is chocked-full of traditional hymns from a wide range of sources. If some of your favorite tunes or verses are missing, it's just a space issue. The hymn book must fit into a rack mounted on the back of the pews and must also be easy for elderly and children to hold.

[@TheHamptonPlace]

James 2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Phillipians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. These scriptures seem to contradict the other ones about saved by grace. What are we to do? It’s another emphasis on an important subject. Just because there are different emphasis about a subject doesn’t mean they are all about contradiction. If I look at an elephant from the front and them the back and then describe the animal two different ways it doesn’t mean I’m describing a different animal.

[@TheHamptonPlace]

Also Latter Day Saints also believe that grace is a gift made possible by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice and in no other way. You cannot be saved from physical death and sins in any other way, only through Christ. If you look you’ll find a huge amount of LDS quotes to that effect. Does someone have to do something, to accept the grace? Isn’t “accept” a verb, an action, isn’t that a “work”?

[@TheHamptonPlace]

One last bit about the “wretches” piece. I like how you keep going back to emphasis, you at least acknowledge that LDS do accept this term. There are many scriptures in the Bible and Book of Mormon about us being less than the dust of the earth. However there are also many scripture about the potential we have, for example: “ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.” Psalms 82:6 and reaffirmed by Jesus Christ in John 10:34. Christ himself said humans are children of God. That’s the complete opposite of worms. Why the contradiction? Emphasis again, I totally agree with you.

[@BNichols021]

Working out your salvation with fear and trembling implies one is already saved. James 2 refers to justification before men (i.e. how we *show* we are saved) while Paul, in Romans 4, talks about justification before God (*how* we are made righteous) and only mentions faith. Paul says, “However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.” (Romans 4:5).

[@maxfrost9028]

@@TheHamptonPlacehave a look of the context of psalms 82:6. Who is God talking to here?

[@sethvernon6828]

I would hate to obtain a gift from lds where they offer up something for "FREE" but then tell me that I require works to show before I can receive it.

[@daviddrysdale8882]

We (LDS) look at life here on Earth as our mortal probationary time to become... God wants to shape us and mold us to be like him, but he wants us to move our feet! After all, the word disciple suggests that we become disciplined!😊

[@MattTheBandGuy]

The word "disciple" comes from the Latin word 'discipulus' and means 'student.' The twelve original disciples were students of Jesus, the rabbi. If you become a disciple of the new Testament you'll find that most of what is LDS doctrine is not in there.

[@45s262]

@@MattTheBandGuy The Root and Meanings of Discipline Discipline comes from discipulus, the Latin word for pupil, which also provided the source of the word disciple (albeit by way of a Late Latin sense-shift to “a follower of Jesus Christ in his lifetime”

[@bruhmoment11111]

@@MattTheBandGuy The New Testament is literally core to the LDS church but OK I guess? Christians who hate Mormons give me weird vibes. You believe a man could walk on water, be born of a virgin, raise the dead, come back from death himself... But it's just too fucking far to believe this man could also go to the Americas. That's just a bridge too far. He can turn water into wine, but I can't possibly wrap my head around him crossing the Atlantic, that's just a little bit too much.

[@sethvernon6828]

I am saved by grace through my faith, not based on my works, not based on "after all I can do" because Jesus paid it all, not that I must fill in some unknown gap that I can never know if that gap can ever be filled by what I can accomplish, no but just my thoughts that I can know in my heart that I am saved because I know Jesus is God and my sins are forgiven.

[@DavidDrysdale-c4p]

​@@sethvernon6828Can we agree that "becoming" requires effort and that God loves effort!?

[@GingerGigantus]

Keep up the good work man

[@lisatreelove9278]

I enjoyed this video, thank you. Amazing Grace has been a favorite hymn of mine for many years. I did not understand why the LDS church took it out of the hymn book. But I did not truly understand this hymn until recent years, after I had a born again experience. I totally get now that I’m a wretch, but God saved me anyway. Praise be to His name! P.S. That’s so unfortunate that verse two has been left out of the new LDS hymn book. That’s one of my favorite verses! Grace taught me to fear God, which brought me to my knees before him and is the very reason I became born again. Then grace saved me and relieved me of my fear. If the LDS church understands grace, then why did they leave this beautiful verse out?

[@Originaldoctrine]

There’s no contradiction between what Spencer W. Kimball said and what Brad Wilcox said nor any contradiction with the Bible. No-one is saved by grace alone but by grace through faith. Anyone teaching salvation through grace alone is teaching a false gospel.

[@dnzswithwombats]

One small problem with saying grace alone is a false teaching : read Ephesians 2:8-10.

[@Originaldoctrine]

@@dnzswithwombats Ephesians 2:8-10 doesn’t say grace alone at all. It says grace through faith. Grace is not alone if it’s coupled with faith.

[@kenny-gee]

Here we go…. Blind LDS apologists making shit up again

[@robertrlkatz6890]

Dear Origin, then you must not know the meaning of a gift is.

[@dnzswithwombats]

@@Originaldoctrine It says saved by grace alone. Through faith, yes. But by grace. It is a gift. A gift is in no way earned.

[@savedbygracethrufaith]

You can never out-argue a Mormon when you find conflicting statements from past LDS leaders. To the rest of us it’s an obvious red flag that validates our opinion of their make-believe faith…but to a Mormon they’ll just say that man is mortal and make mistakes and they’ll just default to the latest version between the two conflicting statements. They see their approach as logical, but really fail to see the error in their sheepish thinking. Let’s pray that all Mormons may know our one true living God, that they will believe in and follow Jesus. ❤

[@SimonDaumMusic]

Well, Evangelicals tend to do the same with contradictions and contradicting academics within and to the Bible, and yet you still consider your approach logical.. But "knowing God" doesnt really have much to do with that, and thats what counts at the end. "to know God".

[@chrisdennis1449]

There is nothing contradicting in their statements. If you don't understand our views on the premortal existence or what happens to us after we die, I can see how it seems confusing. Pastor Jeff is an Evangelical pastor that is studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You may not agree with our beliefs but he does a good job of truly understanding. He said himself that we dont believe in a works based salvation. All the best

[@austinnajar]

@@SimonDaumMusicthere are no contradictions in the Bible. If you think there are, the problem is in your understanding.

[@savedbygracethrufaith]

@@chrisdennis1449 that’s hilarious 🤣 nothing contradictory 😂 maybe ‘cause BY rewrote it

[@savedbygracethrufaith]

@@SimonDaumMusic nice try at deflecting 🤣 Mormons are crazy 🤪

[@jaredvaughan1665]

Jesus walking on water is how his grace works. After the apostles did all they could to row their boat to him, Jesus appeared to them late in the night. Then the boat was suddenly on shore. If the apostles stopped doing all they could to row to him and turned back, Jesus would not have miraculously met them halfway. James 4:8 says: "Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hearts ye sinners, and purify your hearts ye double minded." This is what some protestants think the scripture should say: "Don't worry about drawing unto God and cleansing and purifying your hearts. He has already decided beforehand whether or not he will graciously save you without your free will and involvement."

[@BNichols021]

1. The disciples were not rowing toward Jesus, they were rowing the opposite direction trying to get to the other side when Jesus walked up to them. 2. There is absolutely no reason to think that Jesus would not have walked out to them had they stopped rowing, and as such this is a strange application you’re trying to make here regarding grace. 3. Paul says, “However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.” (Romans 4:5). Faith is clearly what causes us to be credited righteousness. 4. This begs the questions: Whose righteousness? Not ours. We are credited with Christ’s righteousness (Philippians 3:9).

[@boysrus61]

You can tell by the comments what the LDS think about Grace. Spencer Kimball and many before and after have taught that we will be saved by Grace AFTER we do all that we can. But, according to the church THEY have the answers to what that it. You must Pay your tithing, attend the temple for your dead relatives, obey the word of wisdom, etc etc etc. The rest of Christianity believes because you are a child of God, the Saviors sacrifice on the cross saves you. The current church is softening their stance on Grace and trying to be more palatable to Christians outside their faith. Elder Oaks in conference this past week taught that some commandments are permanent and some are temporary. This is how they get away with the changes they make. Doctrine is a permanent commandment- but is it really? Multiple prophets said that any man born with a drop of African blood would not receive the Priesthood until all others have received it. Now the church says that ban was not doctrine even tho you can find it in multiple talks by prophets and apostles in General Conference. "Oh," the church says, "well we don't listen to past prophets we follow the current prophets." See what they did there? They changed the doctrine. Brigham Young taught that God came to earth as Adam- ohhh, that is now called the Adam God THEORY and not what BY taught as doctrine. So to conclude, the LDS don't know what Grace is because the meaning taught by different generations by different leaders keeps changing. The whims of the current President of the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints dictates how the members understand Grace.

[@Derongee]

We (LDS) are doing good works because the spirit of God invites us to. We aim to follow God, and his spirit in all things, and so that by grace, though faith, we might be perfect and one with The Father as invited by Christ and the Holy prophets.

[@cheyaweber704]

"The rest of Christianity believes because you are a child of God, the Saviors sacrifice on the cross saves you." I didn't realize that any Christians besides Latter-day Saints believe that we are children of God.

[@sethvernon6828]

@@cheyaweber704 it's funny because I grew up singing a song at church called "Jehovah Jireh/My provider His grace is sufficient for me" and someone from the JW community said they are the only religion that refers to God as Jehovah. It seems fake-news is often created by these organizations and then repeated so many times, the desire to do the homework to investigate the truth is often ignored and then misled by it.

[@cartercordingley6062]

I always like amazing grace and was sad it was not part of the LDS Hymns. Even now, I enjoyed the song even as an antithesim. I am glad it is in their hymn. Now they need to get live music (not just a piano/organ ). That would help with their younger generations to enjoy church

[@99blackbirds]

You propbably know this but Growing up Mormon we did not use the word Grace very much we faught back with "works" to the potestants. The LDS church was all about WORKS OBEDIENCE COVENANTS and more OBEDIENCE just shut UP and OBEY. Don't question your leaders. Then everyone got diciplined shamed hurt and traumatized and started leaving the church. So now we are a Grace church. "everyone come back its all about LOVE". There is a huge shift in the LDS church its a lot more loving and understanding. It is getting better. Repentance is a good thing now for everyone! Growing up it was a huge negative thing only for the serious sinners.

[@VAATAUSILI4139]

This Man & his video's, perfectly reveals ignorance, rebelliousness, & personal gains.

[@sethvernon6828]

as does your desire to find ways to personally attack someone without evidence just your opinion that hasn't invested in any provision to show what you state is anything other than your own insecurity and personal hate towards others that are not part of your deception.

[@VAATAUSILI4139]

@sethvernon6828 Some, can't leave THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS alone is, due to rebelliousness, ignorance, or maybe both.

[@VAATAUSILI4139]

@sethvernon6828 Some, bashing at THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, for nothing. Some, all they love doing is, looking for faults, in THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. Some, did the same thing to our beloved JESUS CHRIST, during HIS ministry. Some, can't leave THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS alone.

[@micheleh3851]

Please invite an actual Latter-day Saint on to discuss the topic of grace instead of attempting to 'splain what you think we believe. You are misconstruing our doctrine and using a song (that we have historically already included in previous hymnbooks) to create a spirit of suspicion about the lyrics compared to our doctrine. The reason why not all stanzas are included is because most congregations in the LDS Church don't sing more than 4 verses of any song because our sacrament meetings are an hour and we often run out of time, especially with the closing song we will often sing just the first verse, no matter what the song is. Instead of spending your energy picking on a religion you don't belong to, wouldn't it be more productive to focus on teaching people about your own religion? I have no idea which one of the many Christian religions you even belong to, so the point of this video is not to be a ministry. Why are you hiding the religion you adhere to while spending so much time pretending to be an expert on the LDS Church?

[@keysersoze8302]

"Excellent question, wow. Amen to that🙏🤗"

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

I have been trying to make GLM stop for years. But they won't. The truth is, Satan is being very sneaky working with them. He is causing them to spend most of their time bringing other people down instead of spending their time focusing on Christ.

[@GLM]

Can you explain what I've misarticulated about grace within your theology? (The hymn was included in Emma's 1841 hymnbook, but it hasn't been included since then). Agreed that it was probably length that cut out half the hymn! But why certain stanzas were chosen to keep instead of others (I'd suspect) might be due to certain theological implications...? Hard to say for sure, but it's at least worth talking about. I don't only do GLM...there are other contexts in which I do positively teach what we believe (for what it's worth). I just think that we are also commanded to "contend for the faith" and "correct our opponents with gentleness." Not trying to hide anything - we have a number of people on our team that represent half a dozen different local churches and different denominations. Theologically speaking, I'm a Reformed Baptist.

[@BNichols021]

Most hymnals will include all the stanzas and churches will choose to only sing certain stanzas for the sake of brevity.

[@micheleh3851]

@GLM - You need to invite a devout Latter-day Saint KZbinr on to dialog and help you better understand our doctrine of the grace of Jesus Christ. If you don't want a 2-way convo, I suggest you watch Jacob Hansen who has done a full hour on the topic for an online conference created by Evangelical pastor Jeff McCullough of Hello Saints that you might find insightful. Brief clarifications posted in a comment box aren't effective because you have the advantage of a 30 minute video that would need to be addressed and clarified frame by frame and statement by statement to give wider context and understanding of each point. If Latter-day Saints have chosen a song to include in the hymnbook, you can be assured the words and the verses included do reflect our doctrine. If 4 full verses are left out, it is likely because they would never have time to be sung. Another popular song, All Creatures of our God and King, has the words adjusted because one of the verses refers to God being a Spirit and the 3-in-1 Trinity, which is not our doctrine. The lyrics of Amazing Grace as posted in the new hymnbook reflect our doctrine. It is you who doesn't understand our doctrine.

[@JennaMullen-y1s]

It is OK for Christian’s to believe what they believe about Jesus Christ and it is also OK for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to believe what they believe about Jesus Christ. We can all be friends and we can all love and support each other. Jesus Christ teaches to love one another as I have loved you. I believe we are all trying in our own way to follow the Savior. Amazing Grace is a Beautiful hymn that is available to the world to use. Anyone who feels closer to the Savior by singing or listening to it is welcome to share in its beauty. Anyone who follows Jesus of Nazareth should work together and stand as disciples of Christ to the world.

[@sethvernon6828]

While this seems like a nice idea to keep peace among the people, we do know that anything that contains a contradiction can NEVER be held as truth. If we both walk into a room and there is a light bulb, it is either ON or OFF. it can't be both. So if some claim it is on while others claim it is off, someone is wrong. The concept of Jesus talks about by lds is not the same Jesus from the bible and therefore the contradiction begins to show evidence of false teaching.

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM says that Latter Day Saints are severed from Christ. But based on what they do, Latter Day Saints are the true believers; John 14:12.

[@sethvernon6828]

most of those in this organization will be forever separated from Christ see John 8:24 when you know that Jesus is "I AM" which is God (see Exodus 3:14)

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM says a natural consequence of the grace we’ve been given is obedience. But how can that be true? That’s not biblical. Many people reject grace and obedience. Many people who accept grace and obey for a while, fall back and turn to a life of sin again; Luke 8:13., Luke 11:24-26, 1 John 3:15, Romans 11:18-22, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:1, Hebrews 3:12-13, Hebrews 6:4-6. Hebrews 10:26-27. Hebrews 10:38-39. 2 Peter 1:10. 2 Peter 2:20-21. 2 Peter 3:17. Revelation 22:19.

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM says John Newton tried to tear down the faith of those around him. GLM has a lot in common with John Newton then.

[@sethvernon6828]

you have a lot in common with our adversary, the prince of this world, the power of darkness.

[@Originaldoctrine]

@ And you say I create an air of contention.

[@Santi-ev4ky]

5:59 This quote is actually odd for a life long mormon like me

[@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist]

This is a great video and I’m not even done watching. Thanks for shining a light on how LDS is notably different from the Christianity I see in the Bible. No surprise that with these notable differences from the Bible that the LDS church would have a book of it’s own to distract from the Bible. I’m a Christian but I attend an LDS church with my wife who’s a member. I’m often surprised at how many well known Bible verses are unknown by LDS members. It’s almost as if by design in hopes that many of these Bible verses won’t be seen by LDS members causing them to question and see that many things they believe just don’t fit in Christianity as most know it. Often LDS will use the same words we Christians use but with very different meaning.

[@RaoulKouadioApoue]

There is no confusion between President Kimball's teachings and the message of "The Grace is Sufficient." Both discuss the same principle: that we must qualify for grace. The doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that grace exists, but we must also do our part to qualify for the blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. As it says in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life," and in James 2:26, "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."

[@cheyaweber704]

Oh, dear brother, you are mistaken. We don't have to do anything, anything at all to qualify for grace. It's His Grace that allows you to be resurrected - you do absolutely nothing to qualify for that. No good works can make that happen. It is only through the Grace of God that your body and spirit will reunite. It's His Grace that provides a way to wash away your sins. Again, no good works required. You do need to ask for repentance, but besides that it is Grace that makes you clean. It's His Grace that bears you up to perform good works. It's through Grace that you learn and understand the scriptures and grow in stature. If you just do works without acknowledging the Grace of God in changing you through those works, you should have become a potato. Doing good works should not be a check list but a duty of love and gratitude for being able to do it.

[@sethvernon6828]

​@@cheyaweber704 AMEN!!! how sad that obvious contradiction between Kimball's and Wilcox is so easily dismissed when it's so obvious. I worry that contradictions that we see from CNN and other fake news are starting to become common in other areas of our lives now.

[@Originaldoctrine]

The apostle Paul who wrote Romans recognised that whilst he was no longer subject to the Mosaic Law he was under the law of Christ and God; 1 Corinthians 9:21.

[@crait]

Why did this song get included if they cannot believe the lyrics? Because the song is a banger! They were jealous and wanted the song. XD

[@Austin8thGenTexan]

Newton was around before the LDS Church. Amazing Grace used to be one of my favorite hymns - until it got overplayed at funerals (especially when on bagpipes!) 😜

[@Santi-ev4ky]

8:10 you know he means the law of Moses right?

[@chrisdennis1449]

Yawn - A Protestant telling me that he believes in Protestant doctrine. Saved by Grace Man is sinful Sola Scriptura Mormons aren't Christian Revelation has stopped My interpretation of the Bible is the only correct interpretation. You may get views, but as long as you outline how my beliefs are not Protestant beliefs, you are really being intellectually honest. Pastor Jeff does a really good job. He even said he now understands that we dont believe in a works based salvation. 13:00 This is the best part of the video. His interpretation of the song is the only correct interpretation. Imagine the chaos and confusion if different people interpreted the Bible differently, oh wait. We believe we get to return to our Heavenly Father "And Grace will lead me home" 18:20 Speaking for 17+ million people that dont believe as you do, this has to be a new low for this channel. There is no contradiction in the statements made by Kimball, Wilcox, et al. People ignore nuisance and without context, it is easy to attack our beliefs. I am willing to bet I heard and loved this song long before you were born, but maybe not.

[@GLM]

For what it's worth - I wasn't even claiming there was a straight contradiction between the two. I specifically said there was a different emphasis. Re: Latter-day Saints being severed from Christ-that's why we do this channel in the first place. That's not a new view we have, but the impulse to make these videos in the first place. Because we genuinely believe that Latter-day Saints are cut off from the genuine grace of God, we want to point to what God has said about the Gospel.

[@chrisdennis1449]

@@GLM I understand that. For what it is worth - I have sat next to two gentlemen from the same denomination, one believed Baptism is essential, one did not. One believed that Christ literally sweated drops of blood, the other said it was only literal. I have attended revivals, sitting in the back, learning, enjoying other people's faith and beliefs, as soon as the service is over the Pastor comes to me all nice. As soon as he discovers I am LDS, he tells me I worship the devil and I am going to hell. This reason I bring this all up is that you may not agree with my beliefs, we may have different beliefs, but people of faith need to stick together. I believe and worship the Son of God, born of Mary, led a perfect life, healed the sick, cast out devils, walked on water. He suffered, bled, and died for me. There is no other way to the Father except in and through Jesus Christ. We claim to have additional knowledge of Jesus Christ, that he visited people here in the Americas. We invite all to learn more, if not, please accept our friendship and hospitality. I would love to hear more about your beliefs but you have to offer me something more than your interpretation of the Bible, everyone has their own. And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins. Pg 100 of the Book of Mormon All the best

[@seizureseizer]

@@chrisdennis1449 I offer you the Orthodox Church, the one true church established by Christ, the Sacred Tradition passed down by the apostles, that never fell away, that endured heresy and is the magisterium of Scripture, which can trace its history back to the apostles and early church.

[@chrisdennis1449]

@seizureseizer thank you. Is that the Catholic church or something elae?

[@BNichols021]

I believe that Pastor Jeff says that LDS don’t *technically* believe in a works-based salvation because they have a different definition of what it means to be “saved” (i.e. they believe everyone will be “saved” from physical death by grace, which is far different from what Christians mean when they speak of “being saved.”). However, works do play a critical role in the LDS view of being in the presence of the Father for eternity, which would be the closest equivalent to the Christian notion of “being saved.”

[@Originaldoctrine]

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints prefer to focus on the positive elements that the gospel brings us rather than focus on how corrupt we were without salvation. Things like every man that came into the world came with the Light of Christ within them; John 1:9. That we can walk in that light as Jesus Christ did; 1 John 1:7. That we can be righteous the same as Jesus Christ was righteous; 1 John 3:7.

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM says that evangelicals don’t believe in a pre-existence of mankind. And yet the Bible clearly teaches it. For example: Genesis 2:1. If all the host of earth was created by the first week of creation then that proves the pre-mortal existence of man. Genesis1:26,27 describes the pre-mortal, spiritual creation of man and Genesis 2:5,7,18,21,22 describes the physical creation of man. Proverbs 8:22-31 is further biblical proof of the pre-mortal existence of man.

[@AyeAyeAyeCaptain]

In recent years, the LDS church has been manoeuvring to blend in with mainstream Christianity. Adopting this hymn, which is seen as a sort of "anthem of Christianity" for much of the world, at this particular time, after leaving it out for years, is another move in that PR tactic. As the video has pointed out, they have different definitions for Biblical terms (which are already well-defined by the Bible itself). This subtle redefining of essential Biblical elements (which often goes undetected in conversation unless directly asking the LDS member to provide a definition) causes a growing number of Christians to assume that LDS don't need witnessing to, which leaves the LDS trapped in spiritual bondage, in idolatry, some never even realising how far afield their "Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother/s and literal first-born spirit son Jesus and Holy Ghost spirit personage" are from the true Triune God of the Bible. The LDS definition of grace simply can't mesh with the Bible, but that issue was solved for them from the beginning by Joseph claiming the Bible was "corrupted" and had lost "plain and precious things". Ironic, because the purest and plainest and most precious message is the Biblical gospel of grace -- Christ, and Christ crucified. Unmerited favour, salvation by grace through faith, granted by the incarnate God who died for mankind, and told us "it is finished/ paid in full". Can't get simpler than that. How glaring a contrast between true grace as defined clearly in the Bible, and the LDS counterfeit teaching. "The enabling power that helps us to fulfil all the ordinances and plans Heavenly Father has for us" = works salvation, regardless of how some of the LDS membership have increasingly been trying to deny that in recent years. More than ever, this creeping move to disguise the religion as "basically the same as the rest of mainstream Christianity" solidifies in the LDS member the superior attitude which accompanies the erroneous belief that "the Christian world has parts of the truth but not the whole truth, which the LDS do have". This shuts down investigation of true Christianity in the LDS members, and this phenomenon is observed very well in how few ex-Mormons become Christians. It is extremely rare to find an ex-Mormon from the general pool who understands the differences between Christian and Mormon theology and soteriology, or who will acknowledge that those differences are at all meaningful or important. Seems, just like the active Mormons, they think that "because the name Jesus is used, it's the same god", though the Bible itself warns about anyone coming with "another gospel and another Jesus". That is what makes Mormonism especially dangerous, because it aims to conceal that it is in fact a different religion to actual Christianity, by using the name of Jesus Christ. In fact, the only ex-Mormons I've seen, to date, who understand this, have been Christian ex-Mormons. But the majority go off into atheism, because they carry with them this immensely damaging falsehood that "either the LDS church is the one true church of God on earth or none of them are", which is indoctrinated into the LDS members from childhood via the teachings of the LDS prophets and other leaders, and the First Vision Account, etc. This lack of awareness of how different Christian beliefs are to Mormon beliefs has increased recently, as a lot of the "deep doctrines" are being concealed more, watered down more, or the general membership are less aware of them today than a few decades ago. So, the current LDS leadership's progressive disguising of their religion (which used to openly acknowledge it was different from mainstream Christianity) means less opportunities for the LDS members to be confronted by unadulterated Biblical truth, because neither they nor many average Christians even realise how drastically different their doctrines are. They increasingly use similar language to Christians, and now, are adopting a hymn which they previously left out in more recent decades (and for good reason -- because as the video highlighted, it didn't and doesn't match their official teachings on salvation), but in the end, the meanings are all the same... It has just become more deceptive. These people need prayers for their eyes to be opened. Thank you for your ministry which provides so many helpful answers for any who are investigating and seeking the truth. An invaluable resource, consistently well-researched and respectful.

[@brotherinchrist72]

As someone who came out of the LDS faith (1980's ~ 2000's) once I finally picked up the Bible and started to read, study it, and found many true Christian pastors online to watch and listen to, my eyes were opened fully and I look back now at what I once believed, and at times I chuckle, asking myself "how in the world did I ever believe in all these LDS doctrines?!" - simple answer, because I never grew up with the Bible, and we never really studied or read the Bible in the LDS faith, as it was mostly the Book of Mormon, Pearl or Great Price, and D&C. I have grown kids who are married and have families that are still indoctrinated in the LDS faith, and it breaks me heart because all my friends I grew up with in the LDS faith, all the experiences I had, all the kindness that so many show, is for naught if they do not believe in the right God, the right Jesus, and follow a different gospel. Paul warned us of the consequences, and it breaks my heart knowing there are so many people in hell because they followed Joseph Smith and his doctrine (which I believe came directly from Satan himself, as Smith declares it was an angel of light that appeared to him). I pray that more people in the LDS faith will wake up, and just maybe they will when Jesus comes to rapture his Church from the earth, and Mormonism gets left behind. Either they will realize they were deceived all this time, or, they will fall into the great deception and their LDS church leaders swallow the lies and deceptions and convinces their members that the bad apples were removed and we are still waiting on the second coming of Christ. I wonder how they will handle the mark of the beast debacle then.

[@scotthullinger4684]

Did you read anything up above? Amazing Grace as in the hymnal half a century ago. The hymnal changes a bit every few years when some hymns are left out, and new hymns are added. This is surely nothing new, and is surely NOT any sort of attempt to "blend in" with mainstream Christianity. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is what it is ... and it has ALWAYS been the same, save for any very few changes introduced by modern day revelation via the prophet. Don't pretend to comprehend the totality of church history unless you have actually STUDIED it from stem to stern. You can get a PhD in the topic. The general problem surely is NOT helped with the current dramatic increase of very active atheists, enemies, and X-Members who are hell bent on destroying ALL sorts of religion. This is surely nothing new, and it is in fact INCREASING. Trust me - We DO have our eyes open. It is the world at large which is blind to facts. And you're a damn fool if you actually believe you'll get the TRUTH from X-Members, or from any enemies of the Church. Kind of like trying to learn about Capitalism from Karl Marx, rather than from, who was it ... ? Adam Smith. Just like you won't learn a current shred of truth from Democrats, that party of American slavery who celebrated Abe Lincoln's assassination. Trust me ... the LDS church is NOT blending into mainstream Christianity. Far from it - What you evidently believe is true is only on account of the idiot KZbin videos you've seen, or whatever else you've seen elsewhere on the internet. But KZbin is the WORST -

[@AyeAyeAyeCaptain]

@brotherinchrist72 Agree 💯 I was born Mormon myself, so I can relate. I read the Bible very little as a Mormon, instead reading the "most correct book on Earth", the one that will "bless you if you read it daily and abide by its precepts" (BoM) the most, and the other LDS canon as you listed. If I read the Bible, it was never without checking the JST footnotes and LDS study manuals, because I believed the lie that the Bible was "corrupted", so I wanted to make sure I wasn't reading the corrupted version without the "inspired corrections" in the LDS materials... Long journey of discoveries, but just like with you, reading the Bible properly (taking it as face value and believing that God was bigger than man and could preserve His own word as promised), was what opened my eyes the most. My immediate and extended family are pretty much all either still Mormon or recently atheists within the last five or more years due to discovering the religion had been lying to them their whole lives... Will pray for all of your kin and friends' salvation. I've been thinking the same thing, that the rapture, or possibly seeing the future and more anti-christ moves of the LDS leadership and the world in general during Tribulation will be an awakening for some LDS, so they will become Tribulation saints -- but I can also see how likely the majority will double down and remain "stiff-necked and hard-hearted" (to use more BoM lingo) and proud, and indeed fall prey to the great delusion and believe the lies. All those who "receive not a love of the truth" will be vulnerable to being led away into deception, and we know that Jesus is the Truth. Those who reject Him are without defence. I frankly believe that the LDS general authorities are already intentionally deceiving the membership. Due to Russell Nelson being in Skull & Bones fraternity and other fraternities, and numerous Mormon "royalty" and general authorities also being to secret societies which other world leaders are involved in, it would appear that they are all involved in "secret combinations" like the BoM ironically warns about, which destroy civilisations... If the various world religions continue for a while into Tribulation before presumably the entire world order is changed at the mid-way point with the Beast System instituted, I wouldn't be surprised if the LDS leadership would even support the Antichrist and advocate the Mark. They might claim that the Mark isn't the Mark from Revelation, but an "answer from God" just like the current "prophet" called a bioweapon that was rolled out a few years ago... Then, those who blindly follow and who reject Christ who came in the name of His father, but receive another who came in his own name (Joseph Smith and all "prophets" since), would be lost, but it might wake up certain LDS members who, even with a warped eschatology, would feel something is wrong because "this looks like the Mark." The LDS don't teach a pre-trib rapture anyway, so the leadership could, like you said, convince the membership even after the rapture that they're still "waiting on the Second Coming", because they think they'll have to just survive the Tribulation. All this is just conjecture, of course... But I do think about this a lot, because of knowing that so many people I've known will be going through Tribulation and so these events will be very real experiences for them.

[@brotherinchrist72]

@@AyeAyeAyeCaptain Thank you for sharing all this, I too will pray for your family / extended family. I know prayer works, but in the end, we each have to make up our own decision on what to believe, and the fear of many in the LDS faith is that they become atheist or agnostic once they realize Mormonism was a great deception, and so why trust in anything else, which is something the evil one loves to see. I do pray and hope many more of those in the LDS faith will come to know the truth when their Christian friends, their Christian family members who warned them were all taken in the rapture, and they will not be deceived by the lies they feed them after to explain it all away. Looking forward to meeting you and all the LDS folk that found the truth, for every one who finds the real Jesus and real gospel gives glory to our Lord God.

[@scotthullinger4684]

@@AyeAyeAyeCaptain - YOU have been fooled by the world ... and you have become a damn fool of the same sort which you supposedly once knew about in the world, and studied about. And just in case you didn't know, the church uses FOUR tomes of Scripture, including the Bible, and you surely should have been studying all four of them as a member of the church. There's surely a word for people like you. That word is FOOL -

[@jGeothro]

Who is the intended audience for this channel? You just seem to be pointing out that Latter-day Saints aren’t Evangelicals? Fact check: true Just some points of commentary to consider if you want: 9:27 “I Stand All Amazed” has been in the Latter-day Saint hymnal and sung often since 1948 and very much has “wretch” language. 15:00 the conversion story of Alma the Younger (Alma 36) sounds fairly“born again” 16:24 All automatically resurrected, yes. All automatically allowed into heaven, no (broader than Evangelical belief, sure, but not all). 18:20 “the state of *many* Latter-day Saints” you can definitely find people like this in any faith. How are you quantifying ‘*many* Latter-day Saints’?

[@keysersoze8302]

"All what the Prophets and Apostles in these excerpts have taught is true: after all we could do ourselves, then and only then we are saved by Jesus' grace! Why cant those critics of Jesus Christ's own Church understand this simple truth? Because they dont want to, right? And b.t.w : who is Brad Wilcox? 🙏🤔"

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

Brad Wilcox spoke in this last conference

[@keysersoze8302]

@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m "I know. This was a rethoric question to emphasize, that he is neither a Prophet nor an Apostle. He is only a member of the presiding bishophoric at the moment and as such his talks and utterances should be Seen, nothing less and nothing more."

[@GLM]

I was including him because I often hear members reference his talk on grace where he says that grace doesn't fill in a gap, but does it all (with respect to salvation). Though he isn't a prophet/apostle, he is popular!

[@BNichols021]

Paul says, “However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.” (Romans 4:5). Faith is clearly what causes us to be credited righteousness.

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

@GLM Brother Wilcox has compared Grace to piano lessons. He says that one's piano lessons can be paid in full (like the Atonement pays out sin in full) but what do we do with the gift of the piano lessons. Do we practice the piano or do we just passively go through the motions going to lessons. What do we do with the free gift of the Atonement? He says that the LDS members are learning Heaven and not earning Heaven. This makes sense. What will you do in Heaven?

[@Originaldoctrine]

The ultimate aim for Latter Day Saints is to become partakers of the Divine Nature (2 Peter 1:4), come unto the full measure of the stature of Christ (Ephesians 4:13) and to be joint heirs with Jesus Christ (Romans 8:17).

[@GLM]

> "Not to us, O LORD, not to us, but to your name give glory" > "For from him and through him and *to him* are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen." > "there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and *for whom* we exist" > "by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and *for him*." > "I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake," > "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name"

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM is now quoting 2 Timothy 3; “16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” Is GLM now preaching righteousness and good works to become perfect? If they are then they’re making progress.

[@sethvernon6828]

No, you are missing the point of 2 Tim. 3:16 or are just trying to create an air of contention on purpose to do what I have seen from your other posts and that is what I see most members do from your religion is to find ways to personally attack the person rather than focus on the content. Remember, the Bible is to be understood as a WHOLE not in part. So to take 2 Tim 3 and cross it with 1 John 1:10 and Romans 3:10 means no Christian would ever believe we can be perfect. I had invested 15 months of my life living in Palmyra NY with those from this organization to determine if I wanted to join but the evidence of 2 Nephi 25:23 and Ephesians 2:8-9 revealed a contradiction I just couldn't ignore and so decided to end my relationship with those in that group and the friends that I had made there. This recent election has showed me that people are willing to believe a lie despite the evidence because of their own ego, or willful ignorance.

[@Originaldoctrine]

@ Every Christian who has faith believes that they can eventually become perfect. Matthew 5:48, Ephesians 4:13, Hebrews 6:1. Where have I created an air of contention?

[@TheHamptonPlace]

I love the Amazing Grace that will save almost all mankind. As an LDS person, believing that almost all people will receive a degree of glory (the lowest degree even is indescribable heaven beyond anything we have here on earth) fills me with great hope. I stand all amazed at the love Jesus offers me.

[@Tiberius-]

Different Grace

[@vidio-videodictionaryonlin5973]

As an lds what does the word “saved” mean to you?

[@Tiberius-]

@vidio-videodictionaryonlin5973 It means what the original Apostles state In the Holy scriptures. Mormon saved means working for exaltation? Different Jesus Different Gospel Different Spirit different Grace

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

​@@Tiberius-you are not really saying anything helpful.

[@vidio-videodictionaryonlin5973]

@@Tiberius- I want to hear it from the horses mouth. I am a Christian. I want to know from their perspective

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM then quotes Romans 3 saying that no one is righteous. But Paul was saying that neither Jews nor Gentiles were righteous. If absolutely no-one is righteous then why did Christ tell us we needed to be converted and humble ourselves and become as little children or we wouldn’t enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3-4. Little children are clearly righteous.

[@brb1050]

No one comes to the Father except thru Jesus Christ his true Son. Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. Jesus is the only way! Jesus is God (“if you have seen me, you have seen the Father”). There is none greater than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is the creator.

[@stephenkollenborn4986]

The rlds church sings Amazing grace and come thou fount of every blessing

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM ends with the completely unbiblical statement that by grace and grace alone we have been saved. Where in the Bible are the words “by grace alone” ascribed to salvation?

[@GLM]

Ephesians 2:8-9

[@Originaldoctrine]

@@GLM That doesn’t say grace alone at all. That says we are saved by grace through faith. God provides the grace but we must provide the faith; James 2:14-26. If a store is offering free TVs (grace) to anyone willing to come to the store, collect the TV, carry it home, unbox it, plug it in and then pay for the electricity to keep it functioning (faith); you think that if you have to collect it from the store, carry it home, unbox it, plug it in and pay for the electricity to keep it on then the TV wasn’t free. Latter Day Saints recognise what an amazing thing grace is even if faith is required by God to make that free gift of grace function for our benefit. Don’t confuse the works of the mosaic law that Paul dismissed with the good works of faith that God requires.

[@GLM]

In Ephesians 2:8-9, the grace, the salvation, and the faith are all gifts from God (grammatically speaking) - the "this" in "this is not your own doing" is referencing all three. Anyone who is under any law is under a curse-not just the Mosaic Law. By works of the Law (any law!), no human being will be justified before God. The Gentiles are a Law unto themselves, and are still universally condemned because of their own consciences. I'd encourage you to check out Romans 1-5, the book of Galatians, and the Gospel of John. We are not under law (ANY law), but under grace. As Romans 11 says - "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."

[@Originaldoctrine]

@@GLM You “Christians” love Paul but despise the teachings of Jesus Christ and other apostles making all their doctrines subordinate to Paul rather than understanding Paul in the context of what Christ and the other apostles taught. Even Paul acknowledged he was still subject to the law of God and Christ; 1 Corinthians 9:21. Indeed Paul, who frequently dismissed the works of the mosaic law, knew the importance of good works; Romans 2:9-15, 1 Corinthians 9:24, 1 Corinthians 15:58, Ephesians 2:10, Titus 3:1,8. Hebrews 11. And Jesus Christ and his apostles clearly taught how good works were part of the faith needed for salvation and eternal life; Matthew 3:7,8. Matthew 7:12. Matthew 10:42. Matthew 18:3-5. Matthew 18:8,9. Matthew 19:17. Matthew 25. Matthew 28:18-20. Mark 16:16. Luke 6:46-49. John 3:5. John 3:36. Is John 14:12. John 15:1-17. Acts 10:34-35. Romans 2:1-11. Romans 10:9-10. 1 Corinthians 9:21, 24. 1 Corinthians 11:23-24, 2 Corinthians 5:9-10. Galatians 6:7-8, Philippians 2:12. Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:1, Hebrews 11, James 1:22-25, James 2:14-26. 1 Peter 3:21. 1 Peter 4:8. 1 Peter 4:17-19. 1 John 1:7. 1 John 2:3-6 (John 17:3). John 3:4-10. 1 John 3:22-24. 1 John 5:2,3. Revelation 3:20. Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 22:14.

[@sethvernon6828]

@@Originaldoctrine first, I'm wondering why all your replies just exude so much hate and anger? Christians are those that love Christ and accept His free gift of grace for our salvation. Non-Christians are the many false religions of today that pervert the gospel message and try to make a religion be the focus of salvation. No religion will save you and no church is "true" except the one in our spiritual church that all Christians belong one with Christ. Any group that would sing "Praise to the Man" is not one that puts Christ first and only as their path to salvation.

[@sunnyman2]

I hope I don't muddy the water by asking if baptism is necessary for salvation? HE he! Acts 2

[@Originaldoctrine]

In Galatians 5:4 when Paul says we are not justified by law he means we are not justified by the law of Moses. Paul knew we were still subject to the law of Christ; 1 Corinthians 9:21, as did Jesus; Matthew 19:17.

[@sethvernon6828]

False. Read your Bible more. Start with Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:22, 4:4-5, 5:1, 10:9, Titus 3:4-5 If you are still in conflict, please explain the meaning of Romans 11:6 and tell us why grace and works are not mutually exclusive in your world that you invented.

[@Originaldoctrine]

@ You’ve not read the entire Bible and absorbed it properly to understand it. Galatians 2:16-Paul is saying that man is not justified by the works of the mosaic law but the good works of faith. James 2:14-26 should enlighten you further. Romans 3:22 - the righteousness of God is obtained by faith hence 1 John 3:7. Romans 4:4-5 is again contrasting the un-saving works of the Mosaic law with the saving works of faith. John 14:12 should provide you with more insight. Romans 5:1, Romans 10:9 are better understood when you don’t discard John 14:12 or James 2:14-26. Titus 3:4-5 simply means that our sins could not be forgiven us by our own righteousness without the grace of God acquired through the perfect righteousness, faithfulness and atonement of Jesus Christ. But God requires us to bring fruit meet for repentance (Matthew 3:8) and exercise faith unto repentance; 1 John 1:7. Romans 11:6 means grace is no more grace if salvation comes by the works of the mosaic law. If we are saved by the works of the mosaic law then we will no longer be saved by grace. But remember we are not saved by grace alone but by grace through faith; Ephesians 2:8-9. And remember faith without works is dead; James 2:14-26.

[@Originaldoctrine]

@ You’ve not read the entire Bible and absorbed it properly to understand it. Galatians 2:16-Paul is saying that man is not justified by the works of the mosaic law but the good works of faith. James 2:14-26 should enlighten you further. Romans 3:22 - the righteousness of God is obtained by faith hence 1 John 3:7. Romans 4:4-5 is again contrasting the un-saving works of the Mosaic law with the saving works of faith. John 14:12 should provide you with more insight. Romans 5:1, Romans 10:9 are better understood when you don’t discard John 14:12 or James 2:14-26. Titus 3:4-5 simply means that our sins could not be forgiven us by our own righteousness without the grace of God acquired through the perfect righteousness, faithfulness and atonement of Jesus Christ. But God requires us to bring fruit meet for repentance (Matthew 3:8) and exercise faith unto repentance; 1 John 1:7. Romans 11:6 means grace is no more grace if salvation comes by the works of the mosaic law. If we are saved by the works of the mosaic law then we will no longer be saved by grace. But remember we are not saved by grace alone but by grace through faith; Ephesians 2:8-9. And remember faith without works is dead; James 2:14-26.

[@xceptamanbbornagainnokingd5836]

Thou art in error thinking and proclaiming grace is only the thing for mankind that saveth us. What saith the scripture? For by grace are ye saved through faith! Without our faith, it is as the corrupt philosophy of calvinidm Without grace and hsving it be faith only, that is easy believism, jack hyles who is now hellbound, even burning in hell now was the one to start the easy believism heresy, which teacheth that there is no changed life after one getteth saved, one doth not even need to call upon the name of the Lord (though in the greatest Bible and Book ever, the King James Bible) hath it written to the contrary, saying For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved.

[@BNichols021]

Paul says, “However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.” (Romans 4:5). Faith is clearly what causes us to be credited righteousness.

[@Motocrossmikey]

If something is at "odds" with what you understand about LDS Theology, then might I suggest you don't understand LDS Theology.

[@GLM]

Very possible I have a misunderstanding of things - can you explain where my understanding of the LDS view of grace that I presented in this video was off?

[@Originaldoctrine]

Galatians 2:21 is talking about the law of Moses, not the law of Christ and his commandments; 1 Corinthians 9:21, Matthew 19:17, John 14:15.

[@sethvernon6828]

did you ever read Romans 3:22, 4:4-5, 5:1, 10:9, Titus 3:4-5 I think you need to repent then read the Bible a lot more rather than just try to make up your own reasons. I observe similar concepts from the LGBT community who try to massage the Bible words to make it seem like their lifestyle isn't mentioned in the Bible the way Christians believe it is, avoiding the truth to have their own sins be accepted. You have a similar approach that is dishonest and doesn't fit. Also, do you know that Jesus came to preach a gospel to the Jews and Paul (read Galatians 1:11) was given a gospel that was for the Gentiles? Do you know that the Jews will resume that gospel in the Great Tribulation which is not based on grace alone, but works (see Revelation 14:6)

[@Originaldoctrine]

Romans 11:6 is talking about salvation not being by the works of the mosaic law; it is not dismissing the law of Christ hence the teachings of Matthew 25.

[@sethvernon6828]

False. You are making that up. Show me where it says the words "mosaic law'. You are being dishonest by inserting your own words into the text.

[@johns1834]

Everyone reads Ephesian 2:8-9 and stops there, but don't read verse 10; 'For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them'. For those claiming 'grace alone' don't seem to realize is; 'For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins' (Hebrews 10:26). Which means we can lose that grace if we continue to sin and don't repent for that sin. Therefore, we must cooperate with that Grace and being saved by 'Grace' is correct, however, saved by Grace 'ALONE' is false doctrine, but protestants must always add the word 'alone' to get ‘grace alone’ and add the word ‘alone’ to get ‘faith alone’.

[@IJN-33]

You say love, yet somehow it seems like the other thing.

[@Repent702]

There little devels as a paster told me know me decades ago. I was suffering from my Daughters death at only 6 yrs old, had her funeral done there and at the time I was greaving so bad members said your paster not gonna say things bad about the church. Wth wrong with you people, after 7 years missionary keep wanting me to join and get Baptiste so I gave in and that was the last time I went. Jesus Christ woke me up. Everything they said was hidden. All they want is your money's completely a Coult. Now when I see them I tell them I would like to Pray 🙏🏻 for you and it's a No, I do it out loud so the demon's leave some get mad and run away. By Jesus you are saved by GRACE not buy works. So much i would like to add but you folks can do the research.

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM wants to put as much doctrinal value in the words of Amazing Grace as they do in the Bible in some really desperate and strained attempt at discrediting The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[@Santi-ev4ky]

I thought the video would be about Music, fooled i was

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

It is interesting the Evangelical framework vs the Mormon framework. In Evangelicalim, grace and salvation is about THEM. THEY are happy, THEY are forgiven, THEY get eternal peace and comfort, THEY get to enjoy Gods grace forever. Them, Them, Them... The LDS perspective is ultimately about focusing on others. OTHERs get grace, OTHERS get happiness, OTHERs get comfort for eternity. In fact, the LDS are willing to live an eternitiy of sacrfice, learning and growth, for thr benefit of OTHERS. THAT is living celestial. It is a matter of perspective. I admire the LDS's motives. I have a very hard time admiring the Evangelicals motives.

[@MattTheBandGuy]

Swing and a miss!

[@davidjanbaz7728]

Claiming you all are special and deserve the Celestial kingdom but we only get a poor substitute kingdom is the height of self-righteous Pharaseism.

[@MattTheBandGuy]

@@davidjanbaz7728 the surprising thing is that they won't even get to the Celestial kingdom, because who of them is doing all they can do as described in 2 Nephi 25:23? Even their leaders?!

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

​@davidjanbaz7728 you completely misunderstand me! I am no better than you. I am a sinner just as you are. I am in need of the Saviors atonement. But what will I do with the forgiveness and eternal life that God gives me. That appears to be the difference between you and I. What do you expect to do in Heaven? perhaps I could say that you think you (with your "correct" knowledge) is better than me to the point that you deserve eternal happiness and I deserve eternal torture. You believe most will be tortured for eternity.

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

​@@MattTheBandGuyhow so?

[@Dilley_G45]

If you didn't grow up in an English speaking country you are jot that familiar with it. And I think this hymn is way overplayed. I very much miss a lot of traditional hymns like from Bach, Gerhard and Luther.

[@stephenkollenborn4986]

Some of the verses from the song from other churches

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM quotes Ephesians 2:8-9 and says that we do not provide the grace or the faith. That’s not what Jesus said about faith; Luke 18:8. That’s not what Paul said about faith; Hebrews 11. That’s not what James said about faith; James 2:14-26. That we don’t provide the faith is purely the unbiblical doctrine of GLM.

[@SimonDaumMusic]

There certainly are conflicting statements by church leaders, but pretty much the same you get with the Bibel.. Lets just look at the only scripture that mentions the phrase "by faith alone" which actually is in James stating that we are "not saved by faith alone".. Or look at the broader context of the kind of works Paul talks about when talking about salvation "apart from works", which usually is "works of the law", or the mosaic law. To be quite honest, there is no real contradiction to say that we are saved by grace alone, by having faith in Jesus Christ, and to still be asked to bring forth works. The question whether it contradicts depends upon definitions, and when people try to understand Mormon theology using evangelical interpretations, they will see some contradictions where there are none. LDS believe that salvation comes only through the grace and merits of Christ. Without Christs atonement, there would be nothing anyone could do to obtain salvation. But to believe Christ also means to believe in the Word, as well as in the words of Christ, and to do them.. Or in other words, salvation has to mean transformation. So to say you believe in Jesus, but are not transformed in one or the other way, is no salvation. Also, to say you bring forth works and mighty signs of the spirit, but not being transformed, is no salvation. To say all it needs is to believe in the right Jesus basically is saying that all it needs is to confess Jesus in the way some other humans define him. But in truth salvation is about "knowing God", and "knowing God" is not so much dependent upon faith, works or getting every doctrine right, Paul is clear about that.

[@seizureseizer]

The Bible does not contradict, you simply read it out of context. James states that faith without works is dead. True faith is action, and participation in the holy sacraments as cooperation with the grace of God. We are saved by grace alone. I agree with something similar to what you are articulating about transformation as an Orthodox Christian, but the reality is, and is demonstrated in this video...the LDS church constantly contradicts itself on whether grace saves fully, or only AFTER all the works you have done, and its only the finishing to the qualification.

[@IJN-33]

​@@seizureseizerperhaps you read the leadership out of context.

[@SimonDaumMusic]

@@seizureseizer Well yes, church leaders do at times disagree, but thats also what you will find amongst leaders of the evangelicals or any other church. And as I see it, there is nothing perfect except God, and GOd can and does work through the imperfect. The point for me is, the Book of Mormon does not teach a works based salvation, and also 2 Nephi 25 does not teach that, though evangelicals love to use that scripture all over the place. But as good as they can argue with "context" when it comes to how Paul and James disagree, the bad they are with looking at the context when it comes to the book of Mormon. So, Nephi is not teaching we are saved after all we can do. To understand that scripture you have to look at the time and place, the audience, the topic, the surrounding verses and the chapter, as well as look at the whole Book, and then you will understand what its really about. Yes, evangelicals disagree with tons of things we know today, for example that there was no monotheism in ancient israel, that the bible doesn claim to be inerrant and univocal, that creation ex nihilo is not on the bible, that slavery was condoned by God in the Bible. Too often people dont really care about allowing the Bible to speak on its own terms, and likewise dont do so with the Book of Mormon. The argument about what defines a Christian, what it needs for salvation, whether youa re allowed to dance, is going on for ages. And above all, even the Bible teaches that we are "to work out our own salvation with fear and rembling", that we are "to deny ourselves of ungodlyness", that we are to take the yoke upon us, which yoke includes two dudes. The point is, yes, there are still things we have to do, to merely believe does not suffice,. At least you have to get the doctrine right, and dont believe in JEsus being a Mormon, so here grace already is conditional Paul also places conditions on grace, for he states that even if you have perfect faith, perfect works, know all things, sacrifice all things, it still has not saving power without charity. So, salvation is above all about "knowing God", whichg is not always the same as "knowing everything about God"... Whosoever brings for the good fruit of knowing God will obtain life eternal, and tahts what I believe-

[@99blackbirds]

Dont read Spencer W. Kimbals book Miracle of Forgviness it will ruin you!!! There is no mercy and grace in that book. We as LDS missionaries use to joke about the book. saying "do not read it as it will send you home" meaning you will feel so bad for your sins confess everything to the mission president and he will send you home. The book is about repentaning of all your sins all at once and never sinning again. and if you do sin then all the sins come back 7 fold. Once you have repented close to depression and suicide and forgivin by your preisthood leader then forgiveness comes and Gods love is there only at the end!! the Miracle is at the end after you have slaved for months or years in repentance.

[@suzannedehaven6775]

Its always been there

[@robchesley4591]

Lol..i don't think anyone in the lds church actually took the time to break it down like you. Its just another tactical move to "appear" more Christian to Christians.. If you think Jesus was once a sloppy, sinning, normal man like us, an that you will one day be a God like Jesus. Then I PROMISE, the Jesus I follow is far more amazing than your God/Jesus.

[@Jrnosef]

Since when do lds believe Jesus was a sloppy and sinning normal man? I thought they agree he was fully god fully man when on earth... The perfect person and the perfect example for us to look up to

[@Jesusismysavior58]

No. My understanding is that the LDS church teaches Jesus and lucifer were spirit brothers. And I believe they teach is a spiritual pre-existence as well? The Bible teaches Lucifer was a created cherub. After he rebelled against God be became satan the adversary.

[@GLM]

Yeah, the LDS Church teaches both of those things. I was saying that evangelicals don't believe in a spiritual pre-existence.

[@Jesusismysavior58]

Spiritual preexistence is a manmade teaching from the LDS church and not a biblical teaching.

[@behunin1963]

Is Brad Wilcox the President of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? No, but he is in a position of authority, though not that of an apostle. Grace and works are not mutually exclusive. Look at James, Faith without works is dead. Try coming back from the dead. I have died twice. I have met Jesus Christ. I have seen the prints in His hands and feet. I also know that Christ has given no person the right to demean another's faith. May you be blessed but you are truly missing what Christ taught.

[@bschroader]

Have you ever heard a more amazing arrangement and performance than this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWPEo6BrrsmYgMUsi=_xEAqAESLKEoo9pe

[@GoBayside]

Only theology if you seriously think about it.

[@Originaldoctrine]

GLM says that for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Jesus Christ’s atonement did not secure resurrection and entrance into heaven for everyone who ever comes to this earth. That’s a complete lie. In LDS doctrine (and the Bible; 1 Timothy 4:10, 1 Corinthians 15:40-42) virtually everyone will receive a degree of glory and salvation except as the Bible teaches a very few who become sons of perdition; John 17:12, Hebrews 10:39.

[@GLM]

Yeah, the LDS Church teaches a universal resurrection/salvation into a heavenly kingdom. I was trying to say that evangelicals *don't* believe that, and that it's ultimately a false doctrine.

[@Originaldoctrine]

@@GLM Then how is Jesus the Saviour of all men, especially those who believe? 1 Timothy 4:10.

[@frankszulakiewicz5826]

GLM; I'm sorry, but you're clueless about the LDS church. And if you want, we can go over every argument you have. Point for Point.

[@GLM]

Clueless meaning - I'm incorrect about my conclusions? Or clueless meaning - I'm wrong about what I understand the LDS Church to teach?

[@frankszulakiewicz5826]

@@GLM You're clueless about the LDS Church doctrine like I said. I would gladly go over any arguments you have against the church point for point.

[@GLM]

Concerning the nature of grace and it's intended purpose - what specifically am I misunderstanding?

[@frankszulakiewicz5826]

@GLM In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), grace is viewed as a fundamental aspect of God's plan of salvation. *LDS Definition of Grace:* Grace is the divine help and enabling power of God, given to mankind to achieve spiritual growth, overcome sin, and attain eternal life. *Key Aspects of LDS View on Grace:* 1. *Enabled through Christ's Atonement*: Grace is made possible through Jesus Christ's sacrifice and resurrection. 2. *Unmerited favor*: Grace is an unearned gift, not based on human merit. 3. *Enables obedience*: Grace helps individuals keep commandments and overcome sin. 4. *Necessary for salvation*: Grace is essential for exaltation and eternal life. 5. *Works with faith*: Faith is required to access and utilize grace. *LDS Scriptures on Grace:* 1. 2 Nephi 25:23 2. 2 Nephi 10:24 3. Mosiah 3:19 4. Doctrine and Covenants 20:30-31 *LDS Doctrines Related to Grace:* 1. *Plan of Salvation*: Grace facilitates progression through the plan. 2. *Atonement*: Christ's sacrifice enables grace. 3. *Repentance*: Grace helps individuals repent and change. 4. *Faith*: Faith is necessary to receive and utilize grace. *Comparisons with Traditional Christianity:* LDS views on grace share similarities with traditional Christianity but differ in: 1. *Works and faith*: LDS emphasize the importance of works in conjunction with faith. 2. *Grace as enabling power*: LDS view grace as empowering individuals to overcome sin. *Notable LDS Leaders' Quotes on Grace:* 1. Brigham Young: "Grace is the divine influence that prompts us to do good." 2. Spencer W. Kimball: "Grace is the unearned gift of God's divine favor."

[@frankszulakiewicz5826]

​@GLM In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), grace is viewed as a fundamental aspect of God's plan of salvation. *LDS Definition of Grace:* Grace is the divine help and enabling power of God, given to mankind to achieve spiritual growth, overcome sin, and attain eternal life. *Key Aspects of LDS View on Grace:* 1. *Enabled through Christ's Atonement*: Grace is made possible through Jesus Christ's sacrifice and resurrection. 2. *Unmerited favor*: Grace is an unearned gift, not based on human merit. 3. *Enables obedience*: Grace helps individuals keep commandments and overcome sin. 4. *Necessary for salvation*: Grace is essential for exaltation and eternal life. 5. *Works with faith*: Faith is required to access and utilize grace. *LDS Scriptures on Grace:* 1. 2 Nephi 25:23 2. 2 Nephi 10:24 3. Mosiah 3:19 4. Doctrine and Covenants 20:30-31 *LDS Doctrines Related to Grace:* 1. *Plan of Salvation*: Grace facilitates progression through the plan. 2. *Atonement*: Christ's sacrifice enables grace. 3. *Repentance*: Grace helps individuals repent and change. 4. *Faith*: Faith is necessary to receive and utilize grace. *Comparisons with Traditional Christianity:* LDS views on grace share similarities with traditional Christianity but differ in: 1. *Works and faith*: LDS emphasize the importance of works in conjunction with faith. 2. *Grace as enabling power*: LDS view grace as empowering individuals to overcome sin. *Notable LDS Leaders' Quotes on Grace:* 1. Brigham Young: "Grace is the divine influence that prompts us to do good." 2. Spencer W. Kimball: "Grace is the unearned gift of God's divine favor."

[@45s262]

Back in the day when catholics paid the church money to receive Gods grace..

[@dl1130]

The LDS never believed in grace until recently when trying to appear more Christian.

[@Terminatorguy34]

You're clueless

[@JasonChoate-xg3be]

You continue to confuse yourself of LDS doctrine. Jesus Christ paid the price of our faults in FULL. Stop indicating that we are trying to “earn” our way into heaven. We are incapable of paying ANY PART of the price. HOWEVER…. with that gift of Salvation, God DOES have expectations. The Lord Jesus Christ said “If ye love me, KEEP my commandments!” Those are called LAWs. How can you dwell with God if you refuse to follow what He has asked? Another commandment is to love God “with ALL YOUR HEART, MIGHT, MIND and STRENGTH.” That would seem like some if not quite a bit of effort is involved. You , trying to do the minimum of following Christ, shows you know little of His nature. You’re always overthinking things engulfed by your bigotry. Of all that grace you shell out in your preaching, one would think everyone is coming to the after party in Heaven. Then you speak of exceptions as to why you Mormons just can’t be part of it. You’re full of your own interpretations. So I being LDS (according to your logic) will head for Hell for not getting God’s name right and over following what Christ asks in the Bible? Yet an Evangelical associate of mine (a once saved always saved kind of guy) pays little heed to worshipping Jesus weekly, has unapologetically committed coveting of one’s wife - leading to an affair that broke up a family, drinks like no body’s business, does shady deals including tax invasion with his business and like yourself puts down others to puff himself up. Now, this guy has said the magic words “Lord accept me” at one time and according to you he is going to feel oh so at home next to the Savior for eternity?

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

This is excellent! Evangelicals will say us LDS have cognitive dissonance, when they are the ones that say they are saved (while most people going to Hell) because Evangelicals believe the one sin Jesus' atonement will not cover, is "incorrect theology" as to who he is (AKA not believing in the Tinity). Hitler could be in Heaven with them as long as he believed in the trinity and accepted the trinitarian atonement. But Mother Tereasa will go to Hell for being a catholic.

[@BNichols021]

@JasonChoate… he directly quoted President Kimball saying we are not saved by grace alone. Kimball was very clear on this. So you can’t accuse him of misrepresenting, even if you don’t agree with what Kimball said. I imagine most Christians would argue that this associate of yours is proving by his fruit that he is not saved, assuming he is not attempting to repent of his sins. All that being said, most Christians would agree with your statement at face value: How can we dwell with God if we don’t follow His laws? Amen! But the critical distinction is this: Is our obedience part of the basis on which it will be determined if we dwell with God, or is our obedience a result of having been saved and made right with God?

[@JasonChoate-xg3be]

Pres. Kimball’s quote depends depends on what context you are referring too. Evangelicals even have to admit you can’t be saved by grace alone if you don’t do anything including not accepting Christ. The difference is in the how that effort plays out. To be fair, my associate’s short comings (sins of omission) are among LDS members as well. The is a distinction in the my associate is taught he doesn’t have to change, “Jesus is enough “ He’ll get a pass as long as he verbally accepts Jesus as his master. No preparation interview required. He can play in that mud puddle and the Lord’s grace will, assume ignore his willful dirtiness or the associate will suddenly be ready to stop such mindsets to have a wonderful relationship with God guilt free. VS the LDS teaching that we will all get “muddy””in the storm of mortal life yet we will have the choice of staying in the mud puddle foolishly OR recognize our lack of cleanliness and take steps to walk of the puddles (forsaking sins). THEN by our agency the Lord’s Atonement has the power to make us clean. We make the choice to choose that gift. It is foolish to think we can or want to dwell with God in an unrepentant state. LDS teaching is about accountability. According to your evangelical doctrine, my associate is ready for God’s reception to receive the same blessings/rewards as every other soul who got the Heaven pass. Grab the choir book and start a singin! Meanwhile, LDS Church follows the principles taught in many parables such as the 10 virgins. All had the love, the faith and accepted Christ but apparently there was an added prep for being ready to attend the feast. Something to think about as this was Christ’s words. “Not all that sauté Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of God, he that DOETH the will (faith, repentance, BAPTISM, follow commandments including loving others not condemning/demonizing) of MY FATHER which is in heaven (Jesus on the earth).

[@THE_KlNG]

bro needs braces

[@vidio-videodictionaryonlin5973]

When you have to do things in order to receive a gift… that’s not a gift. What you are describing here is work. Read the New Testament again. Jesus never says we must keep those commandments to be saved. Jesus keeps the commandments because he was the only one that can or ever could. The point he is making is that we are sinners in need of God’s grace which he accomplishes for us. May I ask what you think the word “saved” means?

[@GLM]

Right! Exactly! Amen - you're 100% right. Romans 4:4-5 speaks well to this: "Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,"

[@vidio-videodictionaryonlin5973]

@@GLMamen brother! Keep up the good work! I just read Romans though again this morning and it’s kind of crazy how many times Paul makes sure to make the distinction “So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NIV‬‬ That’s chapter 11, that’s out of the real thick of it and he is still hammering grace and not works!

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

Evangelicals are trying to know who Jesus is, while Mormons are trying to follow Jesus.

[@GLM]

I would argue that you can't really follow Jesus unless you know who He is.

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

@GLM I would disagree. One does not need to know God is a trinity, to understand his love and forgiveness for them. Prove me wrong.

[@Jesusismysavior58]

@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m Do you believe god was once a man who earned his godhood? That lucifer is Jesus’ spirit brother?

[@seizureseizer]

@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m The difference is, one might be ignorant of the Trinity and still might understand love and grace, but they fail to realize the oneness of God, the eternal nature of God, and the eternal union of God. However, you REJECT the Trinity, meaning you reject the revealed nature of God as the holy truth of the church. Mormons are essentially pagans in this sense: they are tritheists (maybe even henotheistic) don't believe God is eternal, don't believe God is perfect, don't believe God is infinite, believe he has a physical body, has a heavenly wife and they reduce him to something you could not define as God--a Maximally Great Being--and instead make him out to be some "super-being" in the same way the Greeks depicted their gods--just with more plagiarism of the one true God.

[@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m]

I don't know for certain if God was once a man or if Satan is Jesus brother and it certainly isn't what I base my testimony on. I know God is my creator and that Jesus is my Savior. You probably spend more time thinking about those things then me.

[@frankszulakiewicz5826]

I'm sorry but this guy is clueless 😂