Lead shot VS. Segmentata, Linothorax, and wood shield

[@thefatefulforce8887]

Maximus Gainacus!! 🤣 Legendary! What an amazing test, by an amazing athlete. Now I can't wait for the blade tests.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you so much my friend and thank you for helping put this together! It was a true honor and a true please to do this and I greatly thank you. It was amazing fun and so cool to perform

[@thefatefulforce8887]

@@dashrendar5320 Any time brother!

[@Para_Pilot]

"We have been trying to reach you about your chariot's extended warranty"

[@dashrendar5320]

Hahaha winner winner! That gave me a good laugh

[@clearmelody6252]

"It's a better analogue for what I think a wooden shield would be." Meanwhile real wooden Viking shield = A couple sheets of paper in thickness, basically.

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha I was referring more to a Roman shield, which were heavy duty and had lots of layers of wood…I could have been more clear though

[@hjorturerlend]

@@dashrendar5320 Depends on the period. Republican period ones, as well as the more universal thyreos, had a planked construction with a reinforcing spine.

[@renchesandsords]

I'm not sure how much more it would cost, but a good way of recording blunt trauma behind armour is is using modelling clay, which will impression the temporary deflection and show how much it would punch the person wearing it great Vid, sling form looks great!

[@dashrendar5320]

Oh that’s a great idea!! Thanks for that man, solid way to do it. I will incorporate that next time for sure

[@pythonia5522]

yes precisly my line of questioning,, even dought the armor or shield will deflect the shot,,, it is still going to be very painfull,,, expecialy on the ribs,,, even with out penetration,,,

[@treforgowing2908]

Always great to see more sling content!

[@dashrendar5320]

Glad you enjoy it! Always a blast to do for sure

[@mariosebastiani3214]

Cover the shield with white paper, a thin layer. No added resistance, but the impact point becomes easily spotted. Other than that... you're amazing!

[@dashrendar5320]

Oh man great call! Thanks so much for that my friend, greatly appreciate the feedback and the kind words

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Good idea, or maybe chalk powder as that will cling on its own and probably look better on camera. But still be pretty easy to wash off if you want to.

[@luckrequired5382]

See, now this makes me believe even more that Tony Stark would be soup in his Ironman armour after taking hits from Hulk, Thor or Captain America. His regular (non-Vibranium) suits would need serious padding to diffuse the impact from damage. Sure, I guess he has some McGuffin that neutralises the pain, but we joked about in 'Indy in the fridge' so why wouldn't it be the same for Tony. Also, I do think the loose layers are better for taking punches or hammer blows, because it's flexible and spreads out the force. Kinda like diving into a brick wall versus diving into a swimming pool. Another great video! 🦾

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha yeah I agree that he would be absolutely mush 😂😂 also so glad you enjoyed it, was a super fun video

[@gozer87]

Marking ordnance with snarky sayings is a great morale builder.

[@dashrendar5320]

Indeed haha. Goes back as far as man could write honestly 😂

[@GUNNER67akaKelt]

Good test. I was expecting a little more from the lead, but maybe the biggest difference would be on an unarmored opponent, or when the shot hits an unarmored area.

[@dashrendar5320]

I think yes but also I think it’s a skill issue. I have never used lead before and I think I need to refine my throw to add more speed and power

[@GUNNER67akaKelt]

@@dashrendar5320 That may be the reason lead was used. More than just damage, the consistency of the sling bullets shape and weight could improve accuracy (once the slinger has attuned his throws to it). Don't worry, I can't talk about your accuracy, as I can only consistantly hit the broad side of a barn. Maybe even the narrow side of the barn... if it's a big enough barn, hehe.

[@grayshadow1856]

Carving "ouch" on lead meant for the barbarians just screams toxic gaming party, I love it

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha it really does…man people never change 😂

[@dusk6159]

There's no need to think about games and gaming here

[@ShadowofTruth45]

Total War: Rome taught me slingers are the deadliest unit on the battlefield, they decimate pretty much every unit in the game lol

[@dusk6159]

That's definitely true, those RTW units were lethal

[@Johggd]

Always perfect timing with these

[@dashrendar5320]

Awesome! Hope you enjoy!

[@jessebell1930]

Always an awesome day when you upload buddy😁 Love the sling stuff. Love from Australia😁

[@dashrendar5320]

Always glad you enjoy it my Australian friend! The sling is always fun to get and and make some videos with

[@solanumtinkr8280]

Don't feel bad, the 100lb compound is within usability of far more people than the 130lb'er, the latter is a monster that takes one to draw it :P

[@dashrendar5320]

Hahaha indeed…I don’t really mind I just like having fun with it 😂

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

He did get it. Right in the Kisser. If you wanted to be able to track individual pellets , as they rebounded, you could get a flour shifter, and this would enable you to quickly put an even and very thin white coating of flour all around your target area. When you made your cast, you would see the mark on the target or background, but then you would also see immediately where the flour had been disturbed. And you would be able to determine the direction and force of the rebound. And quickly sift more flour down to cover the marks, ready for another shot.

[@maxime669]

I would say the glue one seem like a plate armor style as the one stitch together is like a ring mail. Two opposite way to protect yourself.

[@dashrendar5320]

Yeah that’s true: there is a lot of debate about how it was used I am not smart enough to say for sure 😂

[@Lo-tf6qt]

7:04 thank you Dash, I'll keep that in mind the next time I run into British roadmen armed with slings Also, according to the documentary "The Last Stand of the 300", linothorax wasn't just glued/unglued linen, apparently there would also be leather and a thin layer of bronze The doc was made by the History Channel so I dunno how much you can really trust it, but if anybody is able to find the sources they used it'd be a great help to this whole linothorax experiment going on rn

[@nevisstkitts8264]

Pushing the envelope again. Excellent video!

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you as always my friend 😁

[@richardcope9803]

Loved it. I have heard that lead was often drilled out so it whistled in the air. Imagine the sound of that

[@dashrendar5320]

Yeah, that would be crazy. I’m probably gonna do that next time cause I should be able to drill through the lead pretty easy so I’m thinking I might see what I can get.

[@nickdavis5420]

Man now I want to see this versus the riot shield material

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha that will be in the next few weeks for sure

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Probably the best way to hold your armour samples, shields, or really any other target is held suspended by ratchet straps to immobile objects like a big tree - may want to add a spring as well to add in a bit of easy visual tension control and greater elasticity of the whole system. The core idea is to hold everything from 3? points with fairly good consistently tension and elasticity wise so the energy dissipation potential of the target is as close to consistent as possible, thus really showing the differences between ammunition/weapon in use more. I'd suggest having a man shaped cutout in a solid ply with two of the ratchet straps at the shoulders going sideways and one in the belly to hang a heavy weight off/anchor into the ground, can then attach a layer of sheet of insulation, ballistic gel, foam or whatever between that ply and the flatter test sample or if you need to pad out from the template so the regular armour is more realistically 'worn' (in which case I'd like to see a few 'ribs' perhaps in bent PVC pipe to really hold the armour relatively snugly with that same layer of foam/gel whatever).

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks man! Yeah i am still learning so I really appreciate the input

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

@@dashrendar5320 What you do is already of a good quality, and importantly you add in some light-hearted entertainment. So please don't feel you should turn your channel into a more real hard science experimental archaeology channel or put in insane efforts - I'd rather you changed nothing in the methods as long as you keep having so much fun doing it, as that is what really makes it enjoyable to watch.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you! That is ver kind of you to say and I am so glad you enjoy it

[@andrewthorpe2539]

You need to invite Metatron to come over to your ranch. He’s a nice chap, would love your experiments and it’d be an interesting collaboration to see.

[@aleccurts9316]

Great video! Enjoyed this while munching on some rotisserie chicken and spinach. Looking forward to the next vid!

[@sun_600]

Yes finally, this is what i waiting for 🗣💥

[@dashrendar5320]

Yes! It was a ton of fun! Might try drilling a hole for whistling shot next

[@DesireeALeonard]

Just checking on all the ladies to make sure they made it. With all the talk of thrusting and depth I was growing concerned. 😂

[@dashrendar5320]

Alright haha that legit made me laugh out loud 😂😂 well done sir

[@YaBoiSteets]

We passed around notes in class, our ancestors hurled around lead shot with insults (at mach Jesus). We’re not the same.

[@WhoThisMonkey]

The Romans also used to stick their thumb in the sand on a beach and fill the hole with lead. Very quick way of making ammo on the fly

[@kevinfogle7929]

I love the weapon tests!

[@abonham82]

Just thinking, a cheap and practical way to measure impact force might be pressure measurement film, or pressure sensitive film. Basically a bit of paper that has micro capsules of ink that break within specific ranges of force. No expensive sensor to break, 100% reliable and very easy to setup

[@Ember_EX]

I kinda wanna see if a blacksmith can chisel "Oh deer" or "Buck this!" on one of my broadheads now.

[@hjorturerlend]

One thing worth noting is that your javelin is more in the size category of a dual-purpose spear. You couldn't actually carry a stack of 4-7 of those in your hand. Javelins of the period tended to have smaller heads and only ~1.8mm shafts. Obviously throwable dual-purpose spears were used a lot too, depending on time and culture, but they are their own thing.

[@greylocke100]

Just an idea for you to possibly test. Lloyd from Lindybeige and I had a rather long discussion, first as to whether he had a secret brother in Norway who was a Heavy Metal musician, (see Leo Morrachioli, Frog Leap Studios, House of the Rising Sun cover) but second, that it's possible that ancient soldiers/slingers used fired clay bullets for their slings. Since lead and stone bullets could be difficult to source and it was known that regular dried clay bullets had been used for simple thing like hunting small game, Lloyd and I discussed the possibility of armies making fired clay bullets for practice, and foraging. Just something that you might find interesting.

[@CaptainBrash]

Of course the terrifying thing about the sling is the volume of fire they can lay down. A couple might glance of armour but any one of the bullets might kill or at the very least put someone out of action for the battle or longer. I'd be interested to see the same video in a couple of years to see how much of an improvement there is in your accuracy and power generation. Obviously I know you can't go full on sphendonetes for that time but you will still improve.

[@dashrendar5320]

Yes indeed! I will continue to strive to improve and hopefully one day I can at least be as good as a young child was back in the day 😂

[@CaptainBrash]

​@@dashrendar5320crazy to think. Need to get your kids out there with a loaf of bread on a stick. xD I'm really looking forward to my boys being old enough to show how to do this stuff, if they get into it they will probably be better than me before they reach secondary school! 😅

[@dequitem]

Mayby buy some steaks 😅

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha that’s a good idea, someone actually gave me the great idea of using modeling clay though. I think I will try that next time.

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

My suggestion for a good target backer would be a sand bag, or bag of soil. joerg Sprave has used that in the past and called it a "dirt bag!".

[@Poisonedblade]

I just realized the Dog Tennis Ball Launcher (Salad Spoon looking thing) is the modern day equivalent to a sling.

[@TheFireGoose]

I’d say it’s more similar to an atlatl than a sling but it could probably be used for both

[@TamasMateffy]

Lead’s real advantage is extra range, and penetration on unarmoured parts of the body. But the extra range is quite significant. I get 170-200 meters with good stones. And 300-350 meters with lead. So yeah, that’s why they used it , i think, to poke those puny bowmen for example out of their reach, and surprise infantry, with shields down, thinking they’re out of reach😂

[@themartyr9086]

ANCIENT SCIENCE, Let’s GOOOO 🎉🎉🎉

[@Thedrewshow559]

Loving that skit!

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha thanks my dude

[@Flooberjobby]

It would be really cool if you had some Tungston shot for the sling. Considering how heavy it is.

[@_B_B_B]

Very interesting video. By the way, why don't you use clay bullets? This will allow you to get a projectile of standardized shape and weight. This will greatly simplify training, in comparison with stone bullets. Also, if you dip the bullet in turmeric powder before throwing, the impact point will be much more visible. There are all sorts of powder dyes that are cheap and biodegradable. It can be very interesting to watch on video. Also, if you make clay bullets with a surface similar to a golf ball, you can get greater flight speed and range.

[@scipio7837]

Look up Joerg Sprave's The Slingshot Channel. He was approached by archeologists excavating a Scottish hill fort. They found buckets of lead sling shot with a 4 or 5 mm holes drilled into the shot, but not through. The fort was besieged by Romans who used the shot. The hole creates a freakish whistle when flung. Imagine the effects of 100s and 100s of these screamers raining down on you. Joerg duplicated the shot and tried it out. Must watch.

[@heathbecker420]

I'm not an aerodynamic engineer but wouldn't a sphere of lead be the best shape for overall distance and accuracy?

[@IronGoober]

Great stuff man. If you ever need a second slinger for a future testing , like maybe, what happens when two stones hit armor at the same time... hit me up! LOL :) Also, I want to get a slinging competition going sometime in the spring, I'm still gauging interest, but if you'd be interested please let me know.

[@dutchy661]

he Dash, are you a Sqizo? 🤣 I love how you do the different characters 🥰

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha so glad you enjoy it. For some reason making the extra characters just added more fun and depth to the videos so I just kept rolling with it

[@dutchy661]

@@dashrendar5320 keep it up, not only you bring things back to basics, you make it fun to watch. I love basics and you are nailing it my man 💪🏼🏹

[@dutchy661]

I know you follow Todd, I hope you and Todd Collab at some point, I'd also love you and Georg Sprava to link up at some point 😬

[@AngloSaxon1]

This is a great channel

[@michelguevara151]

it must be noted that your test pieces are not under tension, the reason linothorax and gambeson are effective is because it 'encases', it isn't a good test to use a small piece. a gambeson would not be pushed into the body, it would limit penetration. the linothorax is about damage mitigation against thrusts, those using it were mostly fighting in phalanx, a pushing battle, the idea being to shove the opposing force off the field.. homer notes the kill shots being thrusts to the neck and groin, not to centre mass. there is a reason gambesons stayed in use well into the high middle ages, as long as it is tight on the body, it works well against thrusts, be it sword or spear. as for measuring your sling impacts, there is a device for measuring bite force that may be re-engineered to measure impact force. they have been around since the 1970s and were developed to measure shark bite forces. the amount the material deforms gives pounds per square inch.

[@suunraze]

If you were marching into war and had to choose a single size/weight of lead shot to carry, what size would you bring?

[@Skenderbeuismyhero]

Messaging on projectiles is still alive and well has nothing to do with demoralizing the enemy since the projectiles nowadays all explode.

[@rygo666]

Rock and stone!

[@dashrendar5320]

💪🪨

[@DB-pw9md]

Fear not, I am back with another sacrificial comment for the algorithm gods!

[@dashrendar5320]

Praise be! Amen…

[@Ranstone]

I write "Bullet of OwO" on my .45 rounds for the same reason as the intro.

[@formam1022]

I just got my first bow... Went a little crazy and got a 70 pound long bow, I can shoot it "easily " enough, but do you have any advice to help me start out? Kinda late to ask but better late than never😅😅😅

[@dashrendar5320]

Well for the big thing just to start take it easy with the fingers. The tendons can get really strained when going up in weight fast

[@LeonardoSeiyti]

I wonder if the sling weight (like super light modern material) would affect speed, the same way a bow limb affects arrow speed. Paracord and fishing line would be examples of light materials.

[@ClaytonLovendale]

Try using ballistic gel, usung the gel skeleton to see impact, penetration, and impact shock test comparison.

[@pythonia5522]

the question in battle,, i would say is the fact,,, that one would try to keep the distance and keep lobbing rocks at the romans,,,, so how many hits can your shield and armor can take,,, so when you are been hit with 100 rocks,,,, and arrows,,, i think your shield would be useless,,, and your armor would be dented sticking to you and hurting a bit,,, dificulting your movement even more,,,, trhow rock,, run back and repeat,,,, in the baleares i do think they actually push them back,, till the romans justy decided to get them in the payroll.

[@prepperskills7223]

Enhanced with vicious mockery, which is an additional one d4 psychic damage

[@arthurg1425]

Im curious about how iron, steel or tungsten would work as harder materials that wouldn't deform much yet are still very heavy.

[@Poisonedblade]

Ugh, imagine your elbow if it got hit by a sling bullet!

[@000Monkeylord]

Is that the shield Achilles used in Troy

[@dashrendar5320]

Hahah yeah I just thought it looked cool 😂

[@brealistic3542]

Just curious is a Sling more deadly then a strong Slingshot? 🤔

[@Twiceborn_by_grace]

Use that javelin Alexios! I’m such a dork lol

[@TheLord0Ice0Wind]

Ask Houston Jones to wear the armour 😆

[@stevegambini8318]

You need some shock sensors. They make them for freight. They're cheap.

[@samueltheblonde]

What was the real measurement of speed? Pox Jesus?

[@dashrendar5320]

Mach-Jesus

[@MisterMisanthropeEsquire]

I figure the laminated cloth would do well as a bludgeon damage dampener if it were molded in such a way as to not lie directly upon the under padding you would wear. It might also do well if sewn together as overlapping plates to perhaps spread out the force of the impact. The lead might also fly faster as a dimpled ball, like a golf ball, but smaller. All of this is good for satisfying curiosity, unless he is preparing for the aftermath of WWIII. lol, please no.

[@CptFugu]

Perhaps pottery clay or modeling clay would give you a better measure of the impact. They are cheap and reusable. Foam seems to be too brittle.

[@czarbuscus1475]

I love your sling videos as a slinger myself, your videos really help give me rest from so much tiring school work. Keep it up bro

[@dashrendar5320]

That’s so great. I’m so glad to hear that. Always great to hear from another slinger. Good luck with school, my friend.

[@Demphure]

I don’t know why but I think you should try and collab with Critical Role

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha man I would absolutely love that haha. Send a raven

[@cr0cket01]

shame you cant use a ballistic dummy so can see rib damage

[@dashrendar5320]

Maybe one day soon! They are like 2 grand haha. So if I get that sweet sponsorship stuff one day maybe 😂

[@CaptainBrash]

​@@dashrendar5320 are you saying your Roman Empire sponsorship didn't get you some sweet ballistic dummies?

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha they are quite cheap actually….

[@pythonia5522]

you just got the latest appdate,,, jajajaja lead shot??? jejejeje

[@williamshafer1996]

There are literally measurements and words that describe speeds. Not a single one of them involve the name of my Lord and Savior.