"Can I be a full-time worship musician (not pastor)?"

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- "Should we hire worship musicians?" - • "Should we hire worshi...
- A case for Gospel-shaped worship services. - • A case for Gospel-shap...
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[@jessemayra]

It’s a lot like working in an administration office…we all have specific “titles” of what we do,but the finance officer can do Quality Assurance, and the Rights officer can answer a phone or process the mail… and any one of us can take notes for the rest of us in any of the various meetings…that’s how a “bassist” justifies full time ministry at a church

[@richardaguirre3719]

I'm glad my church is small and the only option for me is to be a volunteer.

[@kingdomofthewesternsahara-2588]

I am actually the person who asked the first question and have since changed my stance on that question for exactly the reasons you gave. Thank you for graciously answering the question.

[@LeadingWorshipWell]

Thanks for the question! 👊

[@kingdomofthewesternsahara-2588]

@@LeadingWorshipWell thanks for answering it

[@kinseyjohnson4341]

This second question is an important one. I think it is great to include your team in helping with things but i dont think this is an area to do that. Song suggestions, sure! Unless these people are leading the team and set, there is not a wholesome outlook to the service and they likely are not atuned with what the pastor is looking for as a theme or scripture. Now our church doesnt get a heads up typically on that but I believe when a worship pastor is prayerful and sensitive to the Spirit they will put together a set that edifies and prepares the church for the message and what the Spirit will do. As a for instance, my leader has me and one other previous worship leader leading a week every other month to lead the team at practice/pick the set/lead in service to continue growing us and give us opportunities to use our giftings. It isn't so often he is handing over his authority and position but builds up his team. I think it's great! He gets one week a month he will just help direct musically on the secret mic but hands everything else off. This past Sunday I led and I picked the set out a month prior. Whenever I feel the Lord put a song burning on my heart I put it in planning center for my week and build off of that song as they come to me and I have time since it's so far ahead. I introduced a new song Thunder in the Desert by Chris Davenport (its crazy good, check it out) which is what I based the entire set off of and it ended up being what my pastor called a "God song" because it fit so perfectly with what the Lord woke him up in the middle of the night that night to speak over our church and pray with us for and the other songs supported it. Our intentional selection of songs based on the move of God in our lives makes a huge difference in how we help our pastors!

[@JeremyHancock1]

Really appreciated your response to the second question. The songs selected should have a cohesive purpose and, ideally, contain a coherent liturgy. Our first three songs are a Call to Worship (come and be in awe before the living God), confession (in light of who God is and our position before him, we confess our sins), and assurance of forgiveness (God’s promises are faithful and Christ’s sacrifice covers the sins of His people).

[@lelanicampher4813]

I have served on worship teams with a dentist, housewives, a music teacher, a dietician, pastors etc. myself being a pharmacist. It's been a blessing to be able to take part.

[@heatheldridge7127]

Good answer…

[@janecross5431]

It is a gift from God to your church to be able to minister to them by playing an instrument or singing. That gift helps them to be more able to join together to sing the gospel to each other.

[@ukulele4worship]

Even if you walk the singers through picking the types of songs for service, then you have to think about tempo, flow, keys/transitions. I feel like trying to introduce that whole thought process at once is a big push for an interim leader. Yes, those are things that a worship leader should eventually be teaching the team. But I think the route that might make the most sense for this interim leader is, like you said, to say "in this season we're going to X". It allows for a clean break from the old way of doing it, and it makes sense for the new (or interim) leader to introduce the change. (Frankly, with 200 possible songs, maybe it isn't even viable for you to lead "any" song they choose.) If you want to throw them a bone, you could give each 2-3 songs to choose from, or even give them 2-3 potential sets to vote on as a group. That at least gives you the agency to choose songs that you can lead well and that fit together well and that take the congregation on a journey - rather than random songs.

[@godandfamilyalways8149]

Pretty sure most church leaders don't even think to so much as pay for the guitarist's replacement strings, or a drummer's replacement sticks and heads, let alone anything else... based on my observations over decades... It's a shame really. But God will repay the musicians later.

[@GlazedYeti]

Spencer, maybe you should make a video on how to use the advice you give. Could seem really obvious: weigh the advice against what scripture says; pray to see if God is really leading you to make the change and not some other factor; maybe talk it through with other trusted leaders; finally internalize the advice and make the change with confidence. I was thinking it would be funny and strange for the worship pastor to address their team like this, “so guys we’re going to start doing *something* differently,” and if/when asked why, respond, “well, I heard about it on KZbin…” If that’s all they’ve got then they’re not ready to make that change! I’ve been under a bad leader who rushed changes left and right and it was not good for ministry. I’d probably end up in the other ditch, picking one way to do things and then never change. Maybe broaden the video or make a series of general wisdom about how to go about change, when it’s needed, how to open up and receive suggestions, etc. Be blessed!

[@AdamOusley]

It's not wrong to want to be paid as a musician, but it's usually not the first place a church should focus their limited resources on. If you get a big enough church they should absolutely financially support the people who make the service possible, but imagine a regular size church paying each member of your team $500 a week. That's only $26,000 a year which probably isn't enough money to live off of in most of the United States, but it's a start. Assuming you pay that to a team of 5 people who all sing and play instruments (acoustic guitarist, electric guitarist, bassist, pianist, and drummer) it would cost $130,000 a year. That's higher than the entire yearly budget of some churches I've been to. I'm going to guess most churches would love to pay you for your service, but most just know they can't afford it.

[@ukulele4worship]

Vocational bassist might need to be bi-vocational, like a lot of other people in ministry. My day job pays the bills for my ministry job. I have learned that this is the way that God provides for my family and my ministry in a way that being paid by the church never could, and I am grateful for that provision.

[@jaygonztx]

IMO, most churches that pay non-WL musicians full time salaries are MDs. So if you’re a drummer, bassist, EG, keys and you want to be paid full-time or even part time- Expect to bring full-time/part time assets to the table: Can you serve as an MD while being very proficient in your instrument? Have you mastered Ableton? Can you develop volunteers using Playback, Loop Community, etc so the WP doesn’t have to worry about tracks? Are you developing musician volunteers? Are you helping the WP / WL coordinate rehearsals? Can you step in and run audio if your audio guy calls in sick? Things to consider.

[@GlazedYeti]

Is MD a music director? WL/WP means worship leader or worship pastor? I’m not sure what the relationship between those would be, sometimes all those titles are interchanged. And I think I figured out EG is electric guitarist. You use a lot of jargon with no explanation. MD to most English speakers usually means Medical Doctor. I’m just trying to understand 😅

[@jaygonztx]

@@GlazedYeti Considering context clues that this video is about worship musicianship on a channel about worship leadership in the western church, I think it might be sufficient to say that MD does not mean Medical Doctor in this case, but Music Director :) Yes terms often used synonymously, although every worship pastor is a worship leader, in my opinion not every worship leader is a worship pastor per se.

[@Feathe3642]

@@GlazedYetiI had the same problem working out the abbreviations

[@76JStucki]

I don’t have a problem with paying musicians, although I also don’t think it should be required. But a full time musician who isn’t the leader? What would they do? How many full-time musicians do you think your church can support, in terms of workload? If you are a freelance musician and that’s what you do, then that’s your full time job and playing in church can be part of that. But I don’t think it’s very realistic to expect a church to create multiple full time jobs for its musicians.

[@elaineajones8499]

I'm a worship musician that gets paid. I won't have it any other way. This is not right to expect musicians to play for no pay. I'm not a pastor but I lead, put together songs, coordinate, etc. You don't have to be a pastor to lead. This has been at 3 churches now, and my guitar and drums got paid at the past two churches. Most people that I know that lead and play get paid. That's great you are a pastor, most of us are not. I get paid part time but nicely.

[@MemphisMike901]

Hmm…”just learning 4 songs”? No, but maybe a musician has spent a lifetime on their craft to pull things together easily for Sunday morning. I mainly play keys…i have spent probably close to $5k this year upgrading all my gear. Keyboards/Bass guitar…so the phrase “just learning 4 songs” jut does not jive with me. I mean a plumber comes out and fixes your leaky faucet…charges $200. So did he “just” fix a leaky faucet? No, he spent a lifetime of honing his craft and investing in proper tools. (Note: i speak this in love and NOT trying to be arrogant brutha!) i agree would be hard pressed to have just a FT musician for any ccm worship team.

[@LeadingWorshipWell]

Mike, you know I didn't mean "just learning 4 songs." In the context of the discussion I was talking about JUST learning 4 songs VERSUS all of the other things a full-time worship leader does during the week. To continue your comparison, learning 4 songs during the week and thinking you deserve a full-time job is like a plumber who fixes one church's leaky faucets and goes home for the week. That's not a full-time job. The plumber visits multiple houses a week and puts in enough work to justify a full-time wage. Likewise, if you want to be a full-time worship musician, you have to have other responsibilities that allow you to be compensated for a full-time position.

[@MemphisMike901]

@@LeadingWorshipWelli 100% agree. And please do not take my comment as being “arrogant” or challenging. I am going back to my home church as regular musician after many years off. I retired early and now have more time to devote and help out but by no means would it deserve a FT position for sure. I am not even sure if the Bethel/Elevation type places would have FT positions? Your thoughts on that? Love your content bro

[@CalvinLimSH-ld5le]

You can be a full-time musician but don't expect to be paid by your church. Remember, God's blessing from heaven is something that cannot be bought for a price cause when it's given to you it overflows abundantly until you cannot contain it. God loves a cheerful giver from the heart and He even bless them more until we can provide the excess to others in need. Our God is Jehovah Jireh and He provides all your needs if you walk in trust and obedience to Him.

[@elaineajones8499]

Food and rent has to be bought though right? It's amazing to expect someone to volunteer just because it's a church.

[@kelliewilloughby4733]

Loved the 2nd question! One piece of information that was left out was...is this interim worship leader a member of this church? If so, what did he think about the flow of the songs prior to accepting this position?

[@TheWelcome7]

Getting paid for the service not hourly based would make sense if you’re the music coordinator but getting paid, means more is expected of you.

[@serhii-ratz]

Paid for hrs may be fair.

[@dvstec]

I am a worship director for a multi campus church, I get paid the equivalent of one day for this role, each campus runs their services autonomously so I look after the teams, rosters, song choices admin, service planning, compliance, special events etc. - The churches have Independent k-12 schools attached to each campus and I am employed with that for the remainder oft he week full-time (IT Support), so I can work both roles as I need flexibly like update PCO anytime. I'm so blessed. Even with 100+ Worship team members across it all, 1 day is more then enough