Disassembly of Harley Davidson Evo Motor that Locked Up

[@oh8wingman]

I'm sorry but I do not agree with the theory that the back cylinder hydro locked causing the failure as shown. My reasoning is really quite simple. 1. You stated that the engine inexplicably locked up without warning. In order for the amount of oil required to lock up the rear cylinder to accumulate a number of things would have given you warning but the most relevant would be the spark plug fouling with oil and ceasing to fire. You said no warning and I would consider that a warning. Unfortunately you did not indicate whether the rear exhaust pipe and exhaust port had any accumulation of oil present so I am assuming that this was not noted or in fact present. 2. If the rear cylinder had hydro locked, the rear rod would have been destroyed and probably round housed the case when it bent and broke. The video clearly shows the rod to be in pretty fair condition and in fact turning freely on the crank pin. 3. The rear piston and head show no signs of there being any hydro lock damage yet there was oil present during disassembly. Hydro lock this severe would normally cause some damage to the piston and quite possibly stretch the cylinder studs to the breaking point yet there is no evidence of this. 4. Was the motor on it's side at any point in time prior to the tear down? If so, this could be the reason for the presence of oil as it leaked past the rings from the bottom end while on its side. 5. When you pulled the cam out I noticed there was only one washer behind it. Where is the second washer with the locating tabs that should have been behind that against the pinion case? Was it present and you neglected to show it or was it in fact not present at all? Could be the possible source of the metal shards if it disintegrated. And then there is the matter of the missing washer on the timed breather cylinder of the oil pump and the shavings on the cylinder itself. Again, missing or disintegrated? 6. In the video, you did not open up the oil pump pressure side and examine it for shards or the possibility of it being siezed or having failed other than when you removed the cover on the scavenging side of the pump which contained oil. Another critical telltale would be the presence of debris in the pressure relief valve located on the top of the pump pressure side. If debris had lodged in the relief valve it could prevent it from closing fully which in turn would cause possible oil starvation. Roller bearing bottom ends do not produce a great deal of oil pressure but do require a tremendous flow to keep the rollers cool and lubricated. SInce the contact points on roller bearing engines are so small in comparison to shell bearing motors any lack of oil or any contamination will have disastrous effects on the bearings themselves causing them to flat spot and sieze. 7. After you split the cases there is a great deal of evidence that what infact caused this failure was oil that was contaminated with metal shards that entered the outer timken bearing causing it to seize and break the crank pin. It is quite apparent that something, either the breather washer or the missing cam washer did in fact disintegrate which in turn supplied the medium for the bearings failure. You yourself stated that the outer bearing fell apart when the case was pressed off. Another telltale is the fact that the output side of the case was cracked which would seem to support the theory that the timkens failed and the crank flexed enough to contact the case or some shrapnel was lodged between the wheel and the case immediately prior to failure. Another thing that would indicate bearing failure is the fact that the left side of the crank was forced out of alignment and wedged tight to the case. Since a Timken is a tapered bearing as it failed it would tend to pull the crank in the direction of the bearing that was failing. Had it been the inner timken, the crank would have forced towards the pinion case but the end result would have been pretty much the same. If I was a betting man I would say that one or both of the missing washers disintegrated due to a lack of oil or excess clearance due to wear and tear. They in turn entered the oil system which in turn siezed the rollers in the outer bearing causing catastrophic failure and the weakest part of the crank being the crank pin failed under the excessive load. I have seen two engines that suffered hydro lock over the years and in both cases the rod bent and gave way. (One was a boat that sank while running and the other was a severely cracked head that allowed the coolant to enter the cylinder via the intake port.) Since there is no evidence of rod failure or in fact any bending or rod bearing failure, nor at any point did the rear cylinder stop firing due to the presence of excess oil and subsequent fouling, I cannot support the theory of a hydro lock. Just my observations based on past experience with other motors.

[@LeeRalph100]

Sir, I want to first of all Thank You for the very detail description and analysis of the video and mu motor, This is exactly the response that I had been looking for. Thank You and Thank You for understanding that I am totally untrained and that this was done by the aid of other videos, my manual and advice of others. I will address some of your points. 1-3 My theory of Hydrolock came from my Neighbor. I based my decision based on the oil and his past knowledge of motorcycles. Although, from what I have since learned..I too doubt this theory. I agree that my theory on hydrolocking is most likely in error. 4. Yes, the motor had been tipped. I did not consider that. I had been asked if the bike was on its side, but besides a lean..no, it had not been..but I totally forgot the motor had tipped while on the work bench. 5-6 I had questioned to my self about those 2 missing washers, based upon the manual but was unsure. Thank You for pointing this out and verifying that YES there should have been washers there. Great catch, Thank You!! I now believe that they had disintegrated and explained the metal that was in the gear case. 6-7 I am pretty certain that you are exactly right, and if you were a betting man, I think you would win that bet!!! There have been a few guesses as to how, but most without a root cause as to why this would have happened. Your explanation gives me not only the how..but also the why based upon the condition of the engine and parts that I showed. Thank You Again Sir for taking the time to point out what I was plainly missing and not seeing. I can now feel a bit better as well that this was most likely caused by wear and tear and not anything that the shop had done (or not done) in the time that they had it. GREAT REPLY!!!!

[@oh8wingman]

You are most welcome Sir.

[@jamesparsons3134]

Hi Norman I am so sure you are spot on, my 1975 Ducati lost a valve and locked when the piston struck the valve, bending the con-rod and destroying the head....

[@marinaabad1532]

Thanks Lee and Norman, I learned a bunch.

[@cjsule]

Agree with a no go on the hydrolock theory. Only ever seen hydrolock on motors that took on water. Not saying impossible, just unlikely. There is no obvious way to supply that much oil to the cylinder quickly unless something else broke first.

[@dalecarpenter8359]

Thank you ! Its quite the honor to look over the shoulder of a master !!!

[@LeeRalph100]

That is very very kind of you Sir...but truly I am just a avid motorcycle rider, a novice with little to no experience at all...but Thank You!

[@stigbengtsson7026]

Thank You for doing a serious video, I am totally helpless with engines, and I rather watch others. Best wh. from Sweden.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You so much for the kind words!! I hope this was of some help! All the Best, Lee

[@ChrisS-sw1ll]

Thanks Lee and all your volunteer detectives. Fascinating video. I have done enough work on my bikes to know that I need more knowledge. Watched and learned !

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You for the awesome comment. I have had many not so nice comments LOL There are so many knowledgeable people commenting here that make up for it though. I have learned so much from those willing to share that knowledge. Thanks Again, Take care, Lee

[@alanreilly9056]

Please note, I Iive in Australia and years ago I had a BMW R80/7 that locked up on me at 60 mph some 950 miles from home, a long story short the BMW mechanic told me that one of the bolts that hold the conrod onto the crankshaft snapped in two! It happened so quickly and suddenly that I hardly had time to pull the clutch in given that the back wheel completely locked up also,of course BMW tried to blame myself due to lack of engine oil etc, but the bike was serviced by them 2 weeks prior to the engine lock up and BMW did not charge me for any of the repairs Great video by the way! Regards Alan Reilly

[@morganc.2783]

Thank you for your video. By making this video you helped me figure out why my motor locked up. Parts are on order, and she should be up and running in a few weeks. Thanks again

[@LeeRalph100]

That is cool to hear!!! I was just jumping blindly into mine, so it is great to hear it help someone. Keep me informed of your progress. Take care!

[@jorgepena8021]

Great Harley engine tear down video. My lowrider S is currently in the shop for a bottom end knocking noise. It has a 110 with approximately 7,000 miles. After confirming there was a knock, Harley approved a tear down. They found the flywheel gear binding. Master tech said if left alone the bearing would have developed flat spot and a chain of events leading to other engine damage. Good luck on your rebuild, I wanted to share this even though it may not be related to your engine locking up. Best regards.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks!! I am so glad you are having it looked at and repaired. The lock up was a ride I would not wish on my worst enemy LOL Hopefully it will be an easy fix with moderate cost..but either it is good to know you will be safe from what happened to me!!! Thanks for watching and the comment, Take care

[@fredtaad4115]

Looks like the shop that changed your state put the washer on the wrong side of the rotor. When they overturned the comp nut it drove in on the sprocket shaft (timken) bearing. When it heated up it expanded and locked it up. When your guy droped the case it freed it up. Oh and he cracked your case half on the press.

[@LeeRalph100]

Great comment here!!!! Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@JaredHIll13]

I second that diag. good eye. and yeah the press broke the case.... "seen it covered it" lol.

[@heikkiparviainen6084]

Sherlock to the rescue!

[@fredtaad4115]

@@heikkiparviainen6084 I'm glad someone noticed. Thanks

[@lengee3724]

I thought that from the beginning. I just want to know if they impacted the compensator nut on and threw the wheels out of true, but there is no getting around the fact the sequence of that washer was wrong. Then slammed together with a 1400 lb Milwaukee impact gun. I also feel with all that metal accumulating and the cam washer and breather spacer/washer missing it was not just boom done it took a few miles for that all to happen. How long after stator job did you ride it before it exploded ?

[@oldwing1589]

I'm glad that you made it out safe. I have a difficult time trusting anyone to work on anything of mine. I hope you got her back together successfully.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You..it was a scary ride for sure!!!! I think l I will start doing my own wrenching at this point...at least I will know who to blame LOL Thanks for the kind comment

[@davida1hiwaaynet]

Hi Lee. Sorry you had this failure. As a Caterpillar engine mechanic, I've been through failure analysis training. If I were you, I would look closely at the broken ends of the crankpin. I have a feeling that the crankpin fractured first (for some reason) leading to the flywheels no longer being supported. That let them move freely and at angles, cutting into the case. This caused the aluminum shavings and ultimately caused the lockup of the engine when the flywheels jammed against the case halves. By looking closely at the fracture face of the crankpin, a good failure analysis technician could tell if that breakage was caused by one huge hit, or if it was a crack that grew slowly until it broke (thousands of miles), or a crack that happened rapidly (minutes). I believe the clues you need are in the crankpin area.....

[@cdp9633]

I agree. The crank pin looks like it was the cause. Incorrect fitting or flexing due to one of the main bearings allowing the crank assembly to flex can cause stress fractures, but as you say close examination of the fracture pattern would give a clue about the time it took to the crack to develop.

[@ollimakkonen6481]

CDP, I support your theory, even if ultimately then only to a degree. Reason/s for failure of a crank pin are of course many, but surely stress would be a major consideration. Points put forward by Norman May in his excellent analysis would need to be considered at some length. The nature of Timken style bearings being what it is, the failure of this bearing may well have been the source of considerable flexing being applied to the pin. As we are talking of time frames which can be expressed in second/s rather than longer periods, this flexing may well be one of the reasons of metal fatigue and subsequent failure of the pin. As considerable aluminum shavings are present throughout the engine, the source of this metal bears some consideration. As the engine would have seized immediately following the failure of the crankshaft assembly, the case damage can be disregarded as the source. I agree with your belief as the to the primary source being the now missing washers. These shavings would have extremely rapidly been distributed thorough much of the engine, by lubricating oil. This would have led to damage in any highly stressed bearing surface, and in my opinion, could possibly be the cause of failure of the tapered crankshaft supporting bearings. Hydrolocking in the rear cylinder is not a consideration. This has already been addressed in replies, which supply ample proof of this not being the cause. Just my thoughts, but backed by some considerable experience in component failure analysis. My compliments for a well thought out and excellent case study, as well as the high quality and considerable knowledge included in answers and well presented thoughts of several replies. Greetings from my country of residence, Indonesia.

[@presleynewton6780]

@@cdp9633 0.

[@lonloren2317]

The crank pin could have had hair line cracks from out of balance fly wheels. I haver seen a cracked crank shaft on a ISX Cummins caused by the front motor mount being loose and hitting the front balance pully casing the crank to brake behind the timing gear. Bad workmanship. Crank shaft failures causes are self inflicted most of the time.

[@romandybala]

@@ollimakkonen6481 "Case study". Very good.

[@1999softailharley]

Great video i myself am a backyard mechanic have worked on dozens of bikes i own a 1999 evo and have a 106,000 on her with no problems it doesn't even smoke or k nock yet a little noise comi g out of the rockers but not serious i believe you diagnosed this correctly and to be honest i have never seen a crank pin break they are very tough hope you got your bike back up thanks for sharing

[@craigpennington1251]

From what I've seen and heard, that shop owes you a new engine.

[@LeeRalph100]

Craig, I agree...but they do not see it that way sadly

[@aphysique]

@@LeeRalph100 what did it cost ya to repair?

[@peterjones6945]

Bit late to the party but in my opinion, 'beating flat rate' caused the problem. Your not supposed to use an 'air gun' to remove compensating sprocket nut but it's faster and cheaper than doing it right plus rarely actually does cause a problem. The bolt up cranks can easily get twisted causing pretty bad imbalance which flexes shafts in a different plane. Vibration may have seemed normal but even if you only revved it once to 5K it could be enough to snap pin. (I've done a LOT of HD 3 and 5 piece cranks) Personally I would be interested to see wear pattern on crank pin , main shafts and bearings, it tells you a lot if you know what to look for. Hydro-lock would have caused a totally different type of damage

[@donscycleware]

Great video. I am the only person who has wrenched on my 05 Sporty since I bought it new. At 80K it has only needed a CKP. It has been a very reliable bike. Any other work has been modifications. I hate to have anyone work on my machinery. I may be slower but I get it right. The factory manual is your friend :) Good luck with whatever motor choice you make to get your bike back on the road.

[@LeeRalph100]

When I get the new engine in bike I will be the only one touching it..This has been a learning lesson for sure!! Thank You for the kind comment and I wish you many many safe miles!!

[@gregmiller679]

Norman

[@offerosky]

Crankshaft end play set too tight, same thing happened to me on my 46 Flathead, doing 55mph and it felt like I was putting the brakes on, pulled the clutch in and pulled over, she was locked up! I tore it down and rebuilt it, I used the original crank shaft spacer to get the end play, started to bolt the cases together and the crank wouldn't move, re-shimed for proper end play. That's is all it was, luckily no internal damage whatsoever.

[@LeeRalph100]

Good deal on the rebuild!!!! That was a close call. You make some good points, Thanks!!

[@dano4572]

the" screw" you pulled out at the stater, that was a screw for a cabinet door hinge mount!

[@LeeRalph100]

That is exactly what it looked like

[@mayhemmike1789]

dano 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 whatta tard

[@timempson]

I totaly agree with you there

[@philliprobertlawman2232]

Self tapping screw, bloody butcher's!

[@steve19745]

they couldnt get the factory course machine screw in cause they prob destroyed it so they used a self tapping course screw.

[@austinjunkman2449]

I've been working on H-D's for 33 years professionally in shops. It's a faulty crankpin that broke and took out your engine. That's certainly not the first one I've seen like that. Everyone I've seen breaks through the oil passage, just like yours.

[@dry509]

Any specific years of Harley or other brand you recommend?

[@schizy]

Austin gets my vote

[@michaelmorgan2880]

im not experienced enough with harleys to have seen this scenario but your insight is very enlightening... just one of them things i reckon... could the cause be from an overtightened primary chain? just curious

[@arthurmchugh5184]

What junk !! 430.000 miles on my 3 Ducati and no crankshaft drama ! Can't believe people buy this crap !

[@Wanous-hv7zo]

Arthur McHugh but your ducati is ugly sounds like shit looks like shitand only gay people like yourself ride them

[@johnvandenburgh8771]

Great challenge, I have never gone past the top end and never thought I could trust myself to do a lower end. Maybe this will be on my bucket list.

[@LeeRalph100]

I am glad this was helpful. I felt the same before tearing into this. I good service manual is a must. I will also recommend the video I have in my description box, it was very helpful. It allowed me to "see" some things I just did not full grasp in the manual. Thanks for watching, the comment, and I wish all the best! Good Luck!

[@davecerrito5147]

you say Harley shop. if you're talking about a licensed dealership take them to small claims court. they will not want Milwaukee to know they screwed up and that should change their mind about fixing it. that's exactly what I did and I got my motor fixed.

[@jaquesdaniels2964]

Thanks to you for posting this and to Mr Norman May for his excellent post, I have no doubt a lot of people like me will have learned from seeing this and appreciate it as much as I do. I hope your work pays off and wish you loads of trouble free miles in riding in the confidence that you fixed it yourself and now really know your bike.

[@LeeRalph100]

.I have been totally amazed at all the great responses. I too have learned a great deal!! Norman's response rocked!!! I have always been a bit hesitant to tackle big jobs on my bike, if nothing else this has given me the encouragement need to go ahead try the repairs myself...as You mentioned at that point I will truly know my bike! Thank You for the very Kind comment..

[@crazee6821]

This vid has almost made it to 700 comments !! Awesome vid and great comments from many of you !!! That’s why I love KZbin !! And that’s why I love this awesome universe with all you awesome Kool bikers that always points me in the positive direction of fixing my bikes when parts fail !!

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You Sir!! I am totally blown away by your very kind comment. There are so many that are quick to point out the negatives with YT...forgetting what brought many of us here in the first place., sharing of thoughts and ideas and a sense of community. Your comment hit me as well with that reminder, Thank You!! ATB, Lee

[@seandenny4945]

For those more experienced than I am, it almost looked to me like the main seal wasn’t installed correctly. I don’t see any spring on the seal showing that if this was chain drive, it would allow oil from the engine into the primary, drying the engine out and filling the primary. If you run chain drive, aren’t you supposed to install the main seal with the spring outward toward the primary, and facing in if you’re running a belt drive/dry clutch?

[@tomgarrett687]

Could be crank pin failure. Every rebuild I did, I would test the crank pins on a Rockwell Hardness tester. Its been awhile but I believe the crankpin would fall between 58-62 on the tester. New parts do fail. Would also die check the con rods for issues. I did see camshafts snap in half. Also, how was the endplay on the sprocket shaft or the conditions of the timekins? All in all, if it was a bearing failure I believe the motor would have just slowed down to a seize and I agreed with Scooter Tramp, it wasn't hydro-lock. I'm going with crankpin failure....

[@LeeRalph100]

I have to admit, I am a total novice tearing into this...I jumped at the hydrolock idea when suggested to me...I now lean also to the crankpin failure as the cause. Thanks for watching!

[@someoneelse318]

This appears on my recommendations since weeks. Now that I opened it finally I hope youtube is being satisfied at last and stops recommending it to me.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks for watching....but your beef is with YT not me...but Thanks for watching

[@someoneelse318]

No offence meant, Sir. My comment wasn't very thoughtful in this regard. It's just, I don't ride a harley so I have no need for watching harley mechanics. Guess I was just upset about the youtube algorithm as it keeps recommending over and over without noticing that if I didn't watch after two weeks, the content is probably not my cup of coffee. Cheers.

[@someoneelse318]

Addendum: I just learned from wikipedia a hydrolock isn't an issue related to harley engines specifically.

[@LeeRalph100]

None taken. I fully understand your feelings. I am constantly recommended videos and subjects in which I have never shown any interest. I am unsure why, unless it is in hopes that I would watch something outside of my usual interests...but I rarely do watch those that are suggested. I have started mousing over the suggested video and clicking on the three dots that appear ..then the "Not Interested" option. It seems to help for a period and they have totally stop suggesting some topics or creators all together. As my reply was not thoughtful as well, Thank You for the very kind reply, All the Best, Lee

[@someoneelse318]

Thank you, all the best to you too, Simon. P.S. Didn't give the three dots any attention yet, I sure will try it out.

[@domlawson4626]

give tatro machine a call, keenan may be able to shed some light on it and if you were looking to rebuild it im pretty sure he can do it and make it 10times better/ more reliable than stock

[@LeeRalph100]

I have gave them a glance on the net. I will keep them in mind for sure. I have seen nothing but praise for their work! Thank You.

[@davidervin7345]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXq8f2CBqr-Ih68 You can't control what comes into your shop but you have total control of what goes out of it. Look for a shop that cares that only the best goes out the door. And avoid a shop that sounds like dragon something. Everything they did for me I had to have re-done. Best to find someone local found from references. Integrity trumps school diplomas every time. Good luck

[@porkchopspapi5757]

@@davidervin7345 A shame. Dragon man, if that's who you mean, has been in the HD rebuild & hop up market for a long time. I know it's a little late to ask but, can you tell us about your issue with them?

[@davidervin7345]

@@porkchopspapi5757 My 72xlch had an issue with slipped flywheels...a LOT! The pinion was running about .120 eccentric. This was the second time for this motor and I'm not a hard rider. There were other things I wanted, cyl's honed/ pistons (cyl's were scuffed). I had him shave the flywheels & rebalance it. I mailed it all off after a ph call. I got it all back and the cyl's were honed, not bored, but scuff marks still showed. To be fair I reassembled it and several thousand miles later the cyl's show no sign of using oil. The flywheels were a different matter. The pinion still ran .035 eccentric. I found a local genus at the Columbus, Ne dealer that's been at it since the 70's; he fixed the lower end & trany, it's perfect. As for balancing, done by DragonMan, it runs pretty smooth up to about 3000 but it's an Ironhead and that's not too bad. The question isn't vibration it's where do you want your vibrations and the shaved flywheels were a bad idea, MY bad idea. So, my feelings are mixed. So my original post was a little too harsh. But the pinion runout is VERY important. When I bought the bike, in San Antonio in 75, the flywheels were out but i didn't know. A thousand miles later, in the middle of the night in the middle of Ark the rod bearings disintegrated because a mechanic had peened the pinion bushing seat in the cam cover to put back a bushing seat wallered out from an eccentric pinion shaft and all my oil was running into the cam case instead of into the flywheel. It's a GREAT! bike now, my most reliable vehicle, it ALWAYS runs and starts on the third kick, except when someone is watching. I read a lot about unreliable Harleys and realize that anyone with a 150 dollar harbor freight tool set can dismantle an old Harley but if you don't have 30K dollars worth of special tools you will NEVER get one back together properly. The special hones, reams, line bores, truing stands etc don't come cheap. Then there are the charlatans that would really peen a bearing seat or a bushing seat like the jerk in SA,Tx that did mine.

[@paradisemace1]

Norman is on top of it... without doubt. May I add info that may be of interest to all of us that pay top dollar for these machines? This "timed breather" that Norman speaks of,, is a cylinder with ports cut in it. It rotates inside of a fixed pipe with ports to match. The breather is made of PLASTIC !!! In my '97 soft tail and others I imagine. A plastic gear tooth broke away and found its way to the oil pump... the pump drive sheared as a result ! I caught the oil pressure light in time to save major damage. I raised some dust in the Longview, Tx. Harley shop when to my amazement... the replacement part was also PLASTIC !

[@LeeRalph100]

Norman rocked with his detailed explanation! Yes mine was plastic as well. I am glad you caught the issue!! It is surprising that they would allow such a part to be made of plastic, considering the damage it could cause i it did break! I am glad they got it fixed though for you...I wished I had know more when I took the bike back...There would have been some dust raised a bit North of you as well LOL

[@oh8wingman]

Paradisemace1 There is a new unit available from and aftermarket supplier that is not geared nor timed. The unit is made of metal and it uses a system of reed valves to relieve crankcase pressure.

[@mdf1951]

I agree with Norman, I have seen lots of hydro lock ups it bends the rod , because its the easiest thing to bend or break. I spent 34 years at the RR and I was a mechanic on the diesels.

[@LeeRalph100]

I do too, Norman did a great job explaining the most probable cause. I wished now that I had not jumped so quickly on this idea of a hydro lock

[@dougharder6258]

Don't sell yourself short. Anyone who can tear a Harley engine down with the understanding you did is a mechanic. Either you have it or you don't, you have it. As for trained mechanic, what is training? Training is experience and you got schooled by Norman so now you are trained :) Good luck with the rebuild.

[@LeeRalph100]

Sir I do not now how to answer , but to say Thank You! Take Care!

[@suchitotoelsalvador6997]

5 weeks in the shop having work done on it and then locks up at 70 mph......... Nice.

[@theoldbigmoose]

I wish you had shown a close up of the fracture surfaces on the pin. From a distance it looks like a brittle failure, but cannot be certain without a close up. If it is a brittle failure, look for the starting position, a scratch, or crack. Then there will be beach front type waves where the crack progressed. These are called Lueder's lines. They progress until you have a rupture type failure of the remaining material. The signature is quite unique and definitive. We were involved in a failure of crank in a diesel harvester many years ago that cracked the crank. Root cause was improper heat treat of the crank. Don't know if this is it... just another thought.

[@LeeRalph100]

Good Point, I wished I had thought (known) to show that part. I have had other requesting pics of the pin and cases...I may do a video just showing a close up of these parts..any suggestions on what else may be of interest in a close up besides the pin? Some very good info, I looked at the pin, but I am not knowledgeable info in that area to make a sound judgment on the condition of the break. Thanks for a very informative comment !

[@FlintandSteelSurvival]

You know when you do videos like this it feels like I am in your garage with ya! The way you filmed it is great!

[@LeeRalph100]

Flint, You are very kind, and you gave me a big smile, Thank You Brother!! That truly means a lot to me!

[@LeeRalph100]

I want to add, it would have been great having you here during the tear down!

[@kg4wrq]

Great video. I've done rebuilds on my '79 Shovelhead. I don't do much more than change the oil on my '06 Twin Cam. Thanks!

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You for viewing and for the nice comment. Take care

[@ToddWittenmyerBackwoodsLiving]

Well Lee, I can tell you this, you're 10 times the mechanic that I am! LOL! Seriously, that is something I'm really not good at! We all have our gifts, being a mechanic isn't one of mine! Kudos to you brother!

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks Todd, I know just enough to get by, but to tell you the truth I hate working on cars/motorcycles LOL I put off tackling jobs like this, then jump in feet first, but I rely heavily on manuals and videos. I just spent about a week every night working on my daughters car...I am sure I wore the new manual out and watched every video ever produced about her car :) Thanks Brother for the encouragement.

[@Derek-pd4fc]

Someone get this man an impact wrench! In all seriousness good video, and it looks like you have some answers. Best of luck.

[@LeeRalph100]

LOL We don't need no stinking impact LOL You know the part that surprised the heck out of me was the compensator nut...I expected it to take a lot to break it loose...it was no problem at all...that should have been a warning sign!!! Thank You!!

[@ollimakkonen6481]

Totally agree Mr. Ralph. I have been doing some highly detailed work on a large variety of mechanical components for a considerable number of years, and have never owned an impact wrench! On several occasions I have resorted to torque multipliers, but this has been in applications where several hundreds of lb.ft have been utilised. Impact tools produce high levels of stress and shock loadings, which can lead to stressing of metal components, including crankshafts, to the point where cracks are intiated with subsequent failure of the component, perhaps even years later. Cheers from Indonesia.

[@davidcollis4758]

That Harley shop should give you a new EVO motor, or equivalent, with their sincerest apologies.

[@LeeRalph100]

I agree, I just wished I could get them to see that LOL. I was really disappointed in the response I had gotten from them when I took it back and told them what had happened. Thanks!!

[@davidcollis4758]

Good luck buddy.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You!!

[@LeeRalph100]

The1200sportster.....True, when I brought it back they wanted no part of it!

[@dredrotten]

If I were you I would let everyone know what shop did the work on your motor if only to stop someone else from having your experience. They obviously dont care about you and their shoddy workmanship should be known to everyone around the area.

[@janewiggs3418]

I also agree the hydro lock theory would have caused noticeable decrease in power with the eventual destruction of the rod. The failure of the main bearing is a much more likely candidate. I've never worked on a Harley before so I found this a very interesting video, i'm a Triumph fanatic. It's always a bad feeling when you're looking when you're looking at broken cases, good luck with getting it back up together.

[@LeeRalph100]

I have changed my thoughts on the Hydrolock theory...I no longer think that was the cause...I agree that the main bearing was the cause of the lock up...some have pointed out that a bearing was missing..possible left loose in the gear case, then shredding casuing the bearing issues you spoke of. Triumph is a great bike...I used to own 2 old Norton's when I first got married...they had to go...I sure do miss those bikes!! Thank You and Thanks for the commnet

[@stevea6623]

Not personally taking the engine apart leaves a lot of room for speculation, but I believe the crankshaft broke causing the lockup. The crank pin appears to be broken at an angle. Thus the pin would put pressure on the flyweights forcing them away from each other. This would cause; 1) the flyweights to be pushed into the inside of the crankcase wedging the halves inside the cases and ultimately locking up. 2) the broken crank pin would cause the alternator rotor to be thrown out of alignment allowing the rotor to run against the head of the damaged screw (no fault of the shop that installed the stator). My conclusion is: the crank failed due to metal fatigue caused by vibration and/or imbalance. The crank failure would be the source of the metal filings. Although the engine 'locked up', it was not immediate and the crankshaft rotated many times before coming to a stop. I propose that if the engine had been turned opposite it's normal direction of rotation, the engine may have been 'unlocked' and the broken crankshaft may have been obvious without complete disassembly. Glaring mistake made during disassembly; the pinion gear, oil pump drive gear and associated parts should have been removed from the right end of the crankshaft before attempting to remove the right crankcase. I agree with Fred, the case was broken when the shop pressed on the crank. I am a mechanic with over 40 years of experience.

[@LeeRalph100]

I think you are right in your speculation. GREAT comment, Thank You!!!!!

[@jensenmekk]

There have been something with the chrank shaft,they have tear it down and not get it togheter in the right order,maybe the chrank have been apart to change rod bearing and they have not get it chlocked,was there an shim spacer between those timken bearings?it seems like the workshop have been pressed the crank or done something whos had set an stress on it,in my eyes it seems that the chrankshaft has been bend in some sort

[@jensenmekk]

My bike is an 1992 FXDC dyna glide custom,my worst nightmare started last year when the cam needle bearing got worn out and take the cam and pinion shaft gears with it to those endless gone parts war land,so i logged into ebay try to find an new cam,oh yes an andrews ev 27 til something 120 dollars.....PAY and when i got the cam i send it to Bias so he can messure what colour pinion gear i needed,and it was green,and there the nightmare begins,out of stock part#24045-90 was totally out of stock,think i searched the whole net and call every shop i knows,but it was not possible to get,so one day out of the blue someone should sell some swap meet parts to an sportster,and there was it an green pinion shaft gear to an evo big twin between 1990 and 1992 in an box with one sportster gear,i send the seller an message if i only can bay the big twin gear,but he told me that was sportster parts,no no no i have seen this gear for so long that i had start dreaming of it,but he told me thats sportster parts and he only sell the whole box,so i bay it and got my bike up and running.So what the holy hell was thos guys on the design room thinking when they start to make an new harley design who only last for 2 years or less? An totally nightmare to find parts to or fully hopeless. So my message to ovners of big twins between 1990 and 1992 make sure that you get the right colour cam whos possible to get gear to before you bay it

[@Gypsy2057]

I'd have to ask but if that work involved re-building the top end it's possible that they didn't give enough clearance to piston - cylinder. That scoring looks like the piston seized when hot and then loosened up after the motor cooled down. If it were rod bearings there'd be more metal in the oil and it would be obvious when looking turning over the motor with cylinders removed. You'd hear the metal on metal. Just one persons opinion.

[@charliepearson1678]

im not a motorcycle Mechanic ..but i do work on small engines for a living ..Let me just say everything has a reason for being in the motor .so ill have to agree with Norman on this one . when dude said missing spacer one that one shaft .it immediately perked my ears .

[@LeeRalph100]

I agree, I had seen in the manual where it showed to..but sadly It did not hit home with me at the time..that is bad on my part. I am so glad Norman caught it and pointed it out!!

[@ElementofKindness]

Fascinating, watching someone working on an old farm tractor engine.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks for watching

[@sosteve9113]

great video,looks like you know a bit of engines i just take them slowly apart and put every piece and place it on the table and when i put it back together i go in the reverse direction ,I'm not a mechanic either but this method seems to work for me when i see something that's broken i replace it great tutorial Lee

[@LeeRalph100]

I know just enough to get my self in trouble :) I think I follow the same method as well. I read and re read the manual...then search the internet..then watch videos..then read the manual again...LOL Thanks for the kind comment Steve!

[@sosteve9113]

hahahah same here lol

[@blhbsit1251]

The Caterpillar Mechanic may have nailed or closely nailed the failure. However, My thoughts. If it had been a hydro lock, the connecting rod, wrist pin, and piston pin bore are significantly weaker than the Crank and would have shown some kind of pressure damage. Not limited to but including piston pin bending. That being said, with metal shavings in the engine tell much. The crank was not mounted securely and it was allowed to flex causing metal shaving. Over time, that movement would have been amplified on the large end of the rod, and a micro fracture would result that eventually would give. From the pictures, the metal fragments throughout the engine, indicate this was not a quick catastrophic failure like a hydro lock, but a slower process allowing for all the metal shavings. Without physically inspecting, this is just a guess. One more thought. The Large rod end on the crank is significantly stronger than the hollow piston pin. The Large end has enough strength to easily shear the small end piston pin and not even see damage to Crank journal. If the crank was securely mounted, everything perfect, no metal fragments, I would guess in a hydro lock up, the Piston pin would shear, the pushrod would punch through the piston crown.

[@katherinehayes9110]

A Big Thumb's Up From Kip Hayes in Macon, Ga. Lee .......what ever caused it, i hope you discover it.......the video is worth it all....... sorry for your loss of the engine .......but the presentation to a layman was second to none!!! I Thank YOU!!!

[@LeeRalph100]

So Sorry for the late response.. Out of all the comments... I think Your is one of the best I have received. Thanks You so much for the Kind words and awesome Comment!!! Take Care, and ATB, Lee

[@midgoog2]

I don't think a Hydrolock was the culprit. You would have seen nothing but oil smoke for some time before locking up. Looking at the casings there appears to be a half circle indent on the thrust face of one casing possibly caused by a loose washer lodging there and jamming. There is also damage to the thrust face which would explain the shavings found throughout the bottom end. My theory is the "missing" washer highlighted earlier found its way to the back of the motor and seized the engine up. The bent screw could have been caused by the ensuing mayhem post lockup, as with the cracked casing. Incorrect assembly at The Harley Shop is my call on what caused the failure. Cheers Ric

[@LeeRalph100]

Well explained!!! I now dismiss the hydrolock idea. Many have pointed out the symptoms of what happened...but you have now added a "how it happened" I believe you are right as to the missing washer. Thank You

[@joeking9933]

been riding for 54 years and never had any trouble with my Honda's - still have my childhood CB160 and my 1972 CB750 i bought back from japan while in the USMC - they still run like new with no problems = Harley guys never wave at me LOL

[@LeeRalph100]

All good Bikes!! I have had my share of Hondas...Check out my Honda CB%%) Chopper build! As to those not waving, There are Jerks in every hobby and walk in life...If you were on two wheels.... I waved! SEMPER FI!!

[@pdg907ie]

You stated the shop improperly installed bent screw behind the stator. I would like to know what shop!

[@jeffvanark]

He also said that he just replaced the stator before the engine blew up... Why didn't he replace the screw then?

[@roadrunner40]

@@jeffvanark He said the Dealer did it. I'll bet something they did also caused the engine failure.

[@LeeRalph100]

The shop did the work

[@LeeRalph100]

Flying Dog Explanation please for your comment.

[@russellbarron6775]

You can see the front piston had hit the head. That scarring on the front was from rod bearing material. You can usually tell when doing an oil change if you look in rim of the oil filter. Especially on an evo and earlier, because oil is filtered on the return side back to the pump.

[@LeeRalph100]

Great comment and great catch!!! This was the type of info that I was trying to gain by more experienced riders and mechanics watching the video!!! Thank You!!!

[@mlynch001]

I don't agree with the hydrolock theory. Hydrolock with oil does not happen when an engine is running. Hydrolock due to oil leaks from overhead would have occured after the engine stopped and would not have allowed it to even start the next time. There is simply not enough time for that much oil to get into the cylinder at the RPM it would have been turning at 70 mph. That much oil getting into either cylinder would have also caused a running engine to emit a smoke screen of epic proportions.

[@LeeRalph100]

I completely agree. Sadly when I did this video, I did not delve enough into other causes...and admittedly I did not know enough at that time to look for those other issues. I was hoping viewers would see something I missed. I have had a couple of really great comments pointing out two missing/destroyed washers that may have been the issue. I was suggested the hydrolock as a cause and accepted it to quickly with out researching it. I have learned so much from great comments like this. Thank You

[@mlynch001]

Lee Ralph I am a professional motorcycle and auto mechanic with almost 50 years under my belt. I am not a Harley man or an expert at all, but when that front head came off, I knew the crank was toast. That piston had been hitting the head, and had polished a spot on the piston to match the quench area of the head. I would speculate that someone made an error when they assembled the engine. Those type of crankshaft breaks usually occur due to severe dynamic engine imbalance or misaligned component parts. A pressed crank is much more susceptible to those issues. Many older Japanese two strokes use a similar design and racers had to actually weld the cranks together to stop them from twisting under extreme torque loads. Also, if the two flywheels were not in perfect alignment, it could also cause this.

[@LeeRalph100]

Michael, I had a couple others mention the piston hitting the head. I did not know to look for that, Good catch, Thanks!! I need to find out just how deep they went into the engine while they had it. Thanks Again!!

[@s2hjt]

You are spot on my friend. The only hydro lock I have experienced in 30 years of monkeying is lawn mowers being stored on their noses or replacing a plug in a valley full of oil.

[@jash7401]

@@LeeRalph100 If there had been an hydraulic lock or the piston contacting the head either one or both of your pushrods on that cylinder would be bent. I would also think that crank bearing would be chunks in the bottom of the case before that crank would breaks like it did. I suspect a cracked crank journal. I would be interested in knowing if the crankpin journal had been ground for an undersize bearing (if they make them at all). My experience is with radial aircraft engines. With as little metal found and the ease you had taking it apart this all happened in a matter of seconds.

[@Gojosaturo614]

I always wanted a Harley growing up...... Then, grown up I found out how chinchy they are with quality, warranty sent worth the paper it's written on, and how major pieces that vibrate badly are just pressed together (and when they come apart, aren't covered under warranty)!!! That scared me away from them. I believe you owe it to all the ones who viewed the video to put it out there who did the work! Otherwise, they're still doing it to the next, and the next, and the next,...........all with YOUR BLESSIBG !!! Think about it!

[@LeeRalph100]

At this point it would not help much...and what I can tell you are there are those that love that dealership...and those that hate it.....and neither side will be convinced otherwise.

[@johnlord8337]

I have not had a lock up. But, I've had a "back tire (luckily)" deflate (punctured), and going high speed down the highway, and having horsetail wagging and the inner tube is coming out and attempting to grab inside the chain, and rip the tire off the rim. Then getting off the highway to the (luckily) nearest motorcycle shop, and have a new tire installed. That was scary enough.

[@LeeRalph100]

WOW Brother that would be one scary ride for sure!!! So many things could have went terrible wrong in that situation. Glad you made it out of that ok!!! Take Care and Thanks for checking the tear down out

[@trollforge]

John Lord I had the same thing happen to my GS550, before I graduated to a Harley.

[@trollforge]

Actually moving up to a Harley tripled, if not quadrupled my riding time, as rice-rockets are not designed to be safe to ride in: the rain, the wind, the snow, hail, or any of the other extremes of northern North American Weather. They are however designed for effeminate little girlie boys, which makes them hell to ride more than 50 Km. it you are over 5'8". I will assume that by "poser" you are recognizing the fact that, ALL, the really hot women want you to pose for a picture with them on the back of your Harley.

[@mitchelleverett850]

Cause of failure is left side race bearing. 81"-92" had the left side bearing rcae cased in the the case. The case is cased around a steel insert that holds the bearing race in place. Over time the bearing race or insert can come lose. This will cause excessive end play on the crank, that can cause several problems. Like a broken crank, pistons wrist pins to pop out, broken oil pumps.

[@LeeRalph100]

THANK YOU!! That was a really informative comment!!

[@mr.j1400]

Glad you're alive🙏🏻

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You Sir!! That is very Kind!!

[@andrewwilson8317]

I had a sprocket that came off the gearbox output at 80 mph, back wheel locked up solid and it took a lot to keep the bike upright and steer to the side of a fast moving road. It ain't funny when you get a failure! From my two stroke days I always ride with the clutch covered!

[@LeeRalph100]

WOW!!!!!!!!!! That could have turned out a lot worse!! Glad you made it through ok and held here up!! I do not wish a lock up anyone but only those that have been through it know the scare of it!!! I know you had to be shaking as much as I was when you got her pulled over. Good point on covering the clutch, although I know to do this..I hate to say , it hit so fast, I truly do not know if I did or not. Again Glad you kept her up and Thanks for watching!

[@kevincoulombe1685]

I'll tell you what, your crack case is caused when the big End Rod let go it's swung down and hit the counter weight which forced the other half of the crank to push out and cracking your case. you can see the mark on the other half where the pin hit . All the hydro locks that I've ever seen always had a bent rod or piston damage. which I never saw your piston but the rod looked okay. It could just be that the big end pin shared from being out of alignment. In other words the two halves of the crank are no longer clocked the same. That's what I think happened. I seen it a couple of times when something happened to the bike which jolted the motor. Since the big end pen are pressed into the crank, they will twist out of alignment and eventually something breaks.

[@LeeRalph100]

Good Eye Kevin, I will go look at those parts today and look for those marks. That makes a lot of sense. Thank You. The bike had been at the dealership for several weeks, started out because of a hammering starter , and new starter install, it was hammering as well, so they kept it and do more work on it ..I am not sure what sort jolt it may have had, unless it was during the work to stop the hammering. Thanks for the reply

[@rotax636nut5]

I'm a 40 year race technician and I agree with your opinion 100%

[@JetDriver1111]

correctomundo !!!!

[@dougfresh1341]

Great vid and great comments. My EVO lost the connector rod bearings. Replaced all with S&S stroker/components. Never looked back. Harley did a great job with the EVO. However, S&S corrected a couple of weak spots. What did you put back in??

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks Doug. I have to tip my hat to some of the great comments that viewers have made! I am in total agreement with you on the corrections made by S&S. That was my original intentions to replace with an S&S ...especially after looking at the condition some of the motors out their for rebuild!! Sadly, I ended selling the bike. Early on in the year the Mrs had Open heart surgery and that set us back a bit more then we thought it would. Luckily that is behinds us now and selling the bike helped put us in a better position.. My thoughts were that I can always replace the bike later and that is better option then being buried in Hospital bills. Thanks for the great comment and question. Take care, Lee

[@dougfresh1341]

Family more important than bikes. And you can find another. I'm in the process of getting another chopper like EVO. The wife can ride on the Elctra Glide. I need something a bit nasty.@@LeeRalph100 Good luck!

[@kingneutron1]

@@LeeRalph100 Hope you get back on 2 wheels soon bruv, and have a better experience with it in the future

[@swektmaico]

I think it would be helpful if you mentioned exactly what work they did on it on the shop. You just said "some work" which doesn't give any clue to whether that could have anything to do with the lock up at all. In the video you mention that they replace the stator. That should normally not cause anything like this unless they used force or violence on the shaft like hammer on it. One hypothesis could simply be that the lower crank pin just broke from fatigue and that's the reason for locking up. I can't see anything in there that would make things come to a halt fast enough to crack the crank pin. It would require a hydrolock or a severe mechanical like a cracked piston or broken connecting rod. A seized roller bearing like on the crank will likely never cause a dead stop that would crack the pin. My guess is that the missing washer which is grinded to metal debris is a misleading clue. I think there is a good chance that the crank, which is pretty delicate compared to other big V-twins broke from fatigue causing the lock up, and of course the cracked crank case as a result. I have seen too many clues leading the assumptions in my days to run after them, so I just boil it down to a locked up motor. The reason for it to be locked is that the crank big end pin is broken. All visual damage to the case is the result of that and there are no obvious reasons for the motor to have locked up causing the cracked big end pin so I can just state that it did happen.

[@bobsullivan5714]

This was a VERY interesting video. But, the comments that followed were fascinating. Educated, insightful, courteous.......Far above the usual KZbin chatter.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks Bob for the very kind comment. I am very indebted to those that posted such awesome helpful and technical comments. I have learned a lot!!! Sadly, there have been one or two comments that just went a bit over the line and I just thought they did not serve any useful purpose in discussing and in my trying to learn from those much more knowledgeable about these motors than myself. Thanks Again!

[@jreskins7374]

Hi Lee, I just had to reply to this one, too many here are not aware what makes a hydraulic lock and being as I've been doing this since Shovelheads were the new ones I've seen it many times. I've been certified since 1970 after working for an H-D shop OJT a couple years before and after certs. and just retired a couple years ago. But you'd never know it by looking at my home shop, I have 4 in there now with 2 being antiques. Anyway, a hydraulic lock is caused by having too little clearance between piston and cylinder wall and too heavy viscosity oil. When the piston comes down the oil ring tries to scrape oil from the wall and if the oil is too thick it then compresses under the ring and kind of hugs the piston to a stop. As soon as you let it sit for a few minutes the oil drains from under the ring and then the motor acts like nothing was ever wrong. It fooled me the first time I seen it, it brought my bike to a halt right now. Couldn't even kick it over, after about 5 minutes it kicked over like normal and I rode it for about 2 more miles and it happened again. I called Red, my lead mech. and he laughed and said,"hydraulic lock, change your oil." I did and it was fine, didn't even scuff the cylinder walls. Anyway, I've been wrenching Harleys for almost 50 years and am still doing it so I can help you with some advice, free now- I'm retired, or supposed to be. Lol, but from what I can see there's too much emphasis put on speculation. If I could see it better and give you a more detailed diagnosis. I did not see any cracks in the cases but if there is, they can be fixed with welding. I do this all the time, I am also cert. welder with spec. in alum and stainless TIG . Maybe I can help you save a lot of money and anguish, I just did with a friend and his twin cam. A total of $1400 in savings on labor on that one. At any rate, if you want to talk more on it maybe post something here and I'll get back to you, either email or phone would work. Good luck Lee.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks for the best explanation and results of hydrolock yet!!! Thank You.. At this time I am probably just going to do an S&S, when finances allow that is LOL I think with ll this motor has been through, I just want to drop a new one in. I fought with the idea of a used one, but rejected that Idea pretty quickly. Thanks for the offer though and will surly keep you in mind if do decide to do a rebuild...and Thanks again for the great comment!!!

[@jamesparsons3134]

Hi Lee you did a great job on the tear down, I hope you are able to get your ride on the road again soon..... I am totally sure the dealer screwed up big and you paid for it. This video reminds me that I can not really trust the dealers for squat..... jp

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You Sir!! I agree, I had worried from day one because the guy working on it did not even look old enough to have a license!!! For now she will have to set for a while...but hopefully not for long!!

[@luvstruck2733]

Seen too many bad so called dealers. Too many reformed meth heads.

[@johngeddes4161]

Absolute pleasure watching a craftsman at work most interesting.

[@LeeRalph100]

I would say I am far from a Craftsman, Thank You, You are much to Kind Sir.

[@hugostiglitz6914]

Every time you produced a paper bag I expected a magic trick. I've always had European or Japanese bikes. I got the chance to ride an 883 for about 1000 miles around Arizona. It vibrated so much when you had something in your mirror it looked like you were being chased by a herd of angry cars!

[@LeeRalph100]

LOL that was funny!! I had an 883 that I did a top end on and a bigger sprocket...but I know what you mean...my mirrors shook terribly!!!!! I loved the bike but hated that about it! Thanks for watching!

[@concrete981]

the 883 came out in 1957 and virtually no upgrades, and LOW POWER.. it's been called a woman's bike. vibration, the hummingbird.

[@extreme978]

I ride a gold wing, and always wondered why harley riders wouldn't speak to me on the road. I rode my friends bike, and discovered how bad they vibrate. I guessed harley riders were too scared to take their hands off the bars.

[@LeeRalph100]

Some HD riders sometimes do not even acknowledge other HD riders.. I have had NON HD riders not acknowledge me....I guess there are Jerks on all brands of bikes...I just laugh to myself at this self important wannabes and get back to enjoying the ride!

[@overthehilldill3626]

I just bought a 98 wide glide that still runs good but has 38k on it. The guy who sold it neglected it and it is 4k past oil change. I've owned 7 other various bikes in my 57 years and am learning more about evo engines. I'm pretty good at my own mechanic'ing and I'm wondering if i should take it apart, inspect it, replace critical parts or leave it alone? Any help from you or anyone else would be greatly appreciated. Very good video. Thx and ride safe.

[@LeeRalph100]

It sounds like this is a great candidate for a rebuild as long...but that also depends a lot on your own skills and knowledge. But with that being said, just going through it and doing things like a proper oil and filter change would probably do wonders for the bike as well. There is a part of me that says..if it ain't broke...... But with showing it some proper maintenance and care you may still get many many more miles from it. I am hoping others on her will share their thoughts as well. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people that have posted here..You may want to glance through some of the comments for suggestions. Please keep me up to date on what you end up choosing to do. All the Best, Lee

[@overthehilldill3626]

@@LeeRalph100 TY for the reply. My thoughts also on doing the oil change, tightening her up then having some of my long time hog friends give her a listen and look and maybe get many more miles. Subbed.

[@Larry3043]

Not a hydro lock, the oil would just get pushed out the exhaust causing it to smoke and pour oil out of the pipe. Also if it was leaking in that much it probably would have fouled the plug and it would have been down on one cylinder. Problem seems to be some where else. Great tear down job.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks..Yeah, I jumped to quickly at the hydrolock theory when it was suggested to me. I sure wished I could go back and make a correction to that part!! Many have suggested a loose part (washer maybe) left in the gear case or a missing washer causing free play. Thanks for the comment

[@brianonthego]

Very nice teardown video. Looks like it's engine time.

[@LeeRalph100]

I think you are right my Friend, not what I really what I want to buy at the time..but I think it is my best option. Thanks for watching!

[@robertbone3064]

I wonder if this type engine could be used on a home built aircraft

[@LeeRalph100]

I wondered that as well after your comment and saw where some had used HD motors for that purpose. GREAT question!! Thanks for watching and for the comment

[@JonHeckendorf]

No, don't do it. I've been around Harley engines my entire life. I've been around aircraft my entire life. I've worked in the aviation industry my entire life. I'm an aircraft owner. My butt has over 500,000 mile on my scooters. I've worked on all of my Harley's. The reliability of EVERY generation of Harley motors are notoriously BAD. They crack, detonate (explode), seize, come apart, lose parts, and constantly fail. Trust your life, will you?

[@robertbone3064]

@@JonHeckendorf Thanks for the reply Jon. I saw the design and it just looked kind of like an airplane engine. Or part of one. I guess if it was safe to do an aircraft mechanic would have used one by now. Stay safe in your travels.

[@hymanlipschitzmd6101]

The difficulty from this point on is the possibility of micro fractures in the various castings and forgings. Of course, the hardware items were subjected to a severe shock, and the resultant wear on the threaded component surfaces may add to the deformation of the engine as a whole entity. With this being said, the decision to replace the motor entirely is wise.

[@moderatefkr6666]

Lee Ralph, I'm not a Harley guy, but I am an aircraft engineer and a biker who works on my own engines. I have several observations: The Harley shop let you down badly. There seems to be no reason for the bent stator screw other than bad workmanship. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and that seizure could have in any way contributed. The missing washer appears to be further evidence of same. What you describe as "shavings" really need to be analysed. If they were machining swarf, then that's serious negligence on someone's part. If they could be the remains of the washer, that needs to be established. It too is serious negligence on someone's part. We can all forget washers, drop parts, and stop/restart jobs and forget where we were up to, but due diligence is called for. You possibly have a case against the Harley shop, but your evidence gathering and recording is sadly rather too sketchy to constitute actual proof or stand up as evidence. Probably wouldn't hold up in court. Any lawyer is going to tell you you should have got the investigative work done by a trained mechanic - probably having given the original Harley shop fuck-ups the opportunity to correct their bad work. Water under bridge. You were also heavily let down by whoever did the pressing work. If you drop a customer's parts and damage them beyond repair you're liable. Period. My final conclusion is a two part one that firstly notes the highly inappropriate and ultimately comically ironic use of 'Evolution' as the name for this agricultural piece of ironmongery. The second part is to point out that it's clearly not a very good design. The amount of torque inside that motor is capable of shearing a 1" plus diameter shaft, but they didn't mitigate against poor workmanship, or whatever the apparently reasonably simple cause was. We know it wasn't visible catastrophic failure of a part. Engine design all over the world (except the USA it seems) has gone through genuine evolution during the years since this design was new. Having said that, I prefer flatheads/panheads/side valves to those things, and still think Harley engines sound better than any of their imitators. But they're unreliable tractors that I really wouldn't want to ride any distance. And to me, that's what bikes should be capable of doing, not just posing and brooding at the lights in leather vests, cut-offs and doggy bowls. I guess the final lesson is that you can't trust anyone these days, and that's sad. If I make a mistake, I call myself the appropriate name and admit my error. Long list available to anyone genuinely interested ;)

[@LeeRalph100]

Great comment and a lot to think about..I agree I should have had the work done by someone else. I guess at this point I had thrown my hands up and just wanted to know if it was feasible to do a repair on it...biting the bullet and just doing it. I thought I would never be able to prove that this was the Shops fault. But as I had more knowledgeable eyes watching and pointing out things that I was to untrained to know, I realized that there were several issue that the shop did that I could probably have called them on, if the tear down had been done by a certified shop... The pressing was done by a friend doing me a favor..it was just one of those unfortunate things that happen. You make some great points in your final conclusion.. I wonder if secretly HD knows if they change their design..they will also lose that rumble and feel that only a Harley offers?? The mystic of a Harley. I agree on a bike should be able to go the distance..I have a freind who oes not ride his bike past city limits..because of break down fears. It is a nice looking bike..but worthless in my eyes. Great Comment...Thank You!!

[@moderatefkr6666]

You're most welcome Lee Ralph. I'm a Honda guy, and I also have a pair of Bultaco twinshock trials bikes, all of which I'm supposed to be restoring here in the UK. In theory we are worlds apart - literally, but in reality we are both bikers. We need to look out for each other. We can all learn from others experiences - both good and bad. It's a journey. Ride safe bro.

[@lonloren2317]

If that was an aircraft engine failure the FAA would be all over it.

[@ollierobinson4339]

Good information about grabbing the clutch

[@stephenclark5812]

Jeez, its like watching someone dissect an engine from WW1. Oh yeah, that's just what it is!

[@homefront3162]

You stole my thunder!! lol, bravo

[@brianleeper5737]

Sell an expensive bike with an engine built with tooling that's been paid off since Nixon was in office = WIN!

[@brianleeper5737]

@Theodore Marakas The Harley engine bears an uncanny resemblance to a radial airplane engine, at least in the cylinder head area. Maybe that's the problem, you can't take a radial engine and turn it into a V-twin without it being a paint-shaker POS.

[@LeeRalph100]

Used to have a couple Norton Atlas' ... I sure do miss them bikes

[@tomcatt998]

@@brianleeper5737 after reading all of the comments i have decided to just keep my old 2001 Fuji touring bicycle,, aprox 100K on it and no failures 🚲...

[@shovelhead8]

I always found old fishing tackle boxes great for keeping parts straight. Labels help as well. This brings back a lot of memories. That stator plug screw looked a lot like a sheet metal screw.. Not really a fan of the hydro-lock theory. If the motor was laid on its side it would let oil past the rings. Was the rear cylinder head filled with Oil? That motor was rebuilt in the past, so who knows what when on. Did you do a real close look at the timken bearing on the drive side? was there a spacer in there? I know it is a lot of questions, but I have been curious about this for a while. I hope you do an update, Lee, and let us know what is going on.

[@LeeRalph100]

Great tip on keeping parts separated! Yeah the screws were basically just sheet metal screws...I could not believe the bent that one and just left it! Yes it was the rear cylinder that had oil in it. Sadly as it was being pressed out the case was dropped..and when it was handed to me all the parts were just loose, and inadvertently the bearings were left at the press..and were later discarded, so I never really got a look at them. Thanks for the help with trying to figure out what happened..this may set on the back burner for sometime deciding how to pay for a new engine.

[@sandranewton1648]

Nice video,Thank you for sharing!!

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You and Thanks for Watching and for the comment!

[@geraldscott9446]

I've had a couple of Japanese engines lock up on me when the cam chains broke. I grabbed the clutch quick. I learned that when I was a teenager (58 now) with a Vespa 2 stroke. Had it seize up on me, and almost went down. I could tell the rear tire was sliding, and instinctively grabbed the clutch just in time. It's too bad what happened to that motor. I am an auto mechanic by trade, but I watched/helped a guy rebuild an EVO and a Shovelhead. It is a very involved process. Much more difficult than rebuilding an old school small block Chevy. Every engine is different, and there are a lot of shims and bushings that are made in several sizes. You basically pick the parts that fit. Sometimes nothing fits perfectly and has to be modified. Tolerances are very close in these engines. It was obvious that it takes someone with skill and experience to properly rebuild one. I would not attempt it, and I have built several drag race car engines. I would not reuse most of the parts from that engine, because of all the metal shavings. Even parts that look ok like the cam probably aren't. Those gouges on the cylinder walls looked pretty bad to me. Shavings probably got caught in the rings. I do not trust dealer mechanics, of any brand. They are usually incompetent bunglers. Look at that bent screw. That certainly should not have happened if a professional mechanic worked on that engine. If you like the bike, I would either get a Harley engine that has been rebuilt by someone who knows what they are doing, or go the S&S route. Their engines are good quality, and not really that expensive if you aren't interested in anything but stock performance. The EVO and older engines are reliable if built right, but they won't hold up to much hot rodding. A stock EVO should last 100,000 miles before a rebuild if they are properly maintained. BTW, nice video, I found it very interesting. I ride a 1997 Dyna Superglide with 50,000+ miles on it. Because of my fondness for this engine over the Twin Cam, I will definitely have it rebuilt when it wears out. One of the neat things about a Harley is that every single part is made by aftermarket manufacturers, usually several. So you don't have issues getting parts like you do with older Japanese bikes. I might even consider a new Shovelhead engine if you can afford it. It will bolt right in.

[@LeeRalph100]

I have had many issues with this dealership before on other bikes. I once had a new light set up put on a Sportster for adding bags...the kid working on it had no idea how to roue the wiring. I ended up walking in to the shop and showing him how to do it!!! Yeah, the money is the big issue right now on what I choose to do. Thanks for the great comment

[@LeeRalph100]

Lots of experience there. You may like my video on the chop I built 1974 CB550 Chopper Build

[@Rob_Moilanen]

You've already got the suspected failure from Norman May, so I wont get into that, except to say what little metal shavings that are there, isn't enough to equal the bearing material and the missing washers (that all looks like bearing material). Did they happen to disassemble that side of the case when they did your motor work? I betting they left them out! As for your dilemma, the first question is, do you want to keep the bike or sell it? If selling it, you could get a used motor (that is a runner) and slide it in to get the bike sold. If you plan on keeping the bike, and you've already admitted you're not really a mechanic, do you seriously want the headache of a rebuild? If yes, then good luck, or at least have somebody knowledgeable help you do it. If not, then bite the bullet and get you an S&S for two reasons, S&S don't build junk, it'll be a righteous build with a spec sheet from it's testing and it'll come with a warranty (you certainly wont have either of those when you rebuild it yourself). Besides, an S&S on that year of bike would give it a bit more value, than the stock motor would, if you did eventually sell it. Though, I would suggest riding it like you stole it for a bit (it's an S&S, it can take it), to get some of your value out of it first before you sell it. Oh, and one other thing (as if this even needs mentioning), don't take anymore bikes to the chucklefucks that did that to your motor. Find somebody else that will appreciate your business and treat you righteous, there is just no excuse what so ever for shitty workmanship like that!

[@LeeRalph100]

The had the primary off, rotor compensator...basically everything on primary side, the where into gear case side ...as far as I know that is it. I am wondering if the one washer in the gear case was accidentally left off. You summed up my situation perfectly!!!! The S&S is the option I have decided to go with...now to get my finances to agree as well. Time to start saving up I guess LOL I promise...this is the last time I ever take a bike there again!!! Thanks for the great comment and a sound look at my options.

[@ltsgarage7780]

I disagree with the S&S. They gave me the run around for almost a year on two bad motors. One right after the other. I think they build junk motors. They will finally stand behind their warranty. Well they will sooner or later. My first motor they wanted the shop to take it apart and rebuild it. I said no. I didn't spend 10k for a rebuilt motor. So almost 6 months later a new motor showed up. I won't even start on what was wrong with the second motor. JUNK. Never buy from S&S....

[@roofertilldeath2071]

i also have a 92 softail evo 78000 on it still runs strong its sad what happend to yours! could have been the missing washer! but who knows any way evos are the best motors harley has ever built i also have a buddy that has over 100.000 miles on his evo and still runs like a champ hard to kill a evo i think yours was just a fluke! i will never get rid of my softail!!! thanks for the vid!!!

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You sir!! It kills me not having it up and going. I think the missing washer is the key too. I am glad this was pointed out! But as you said who knows...they main thing I found out for sure is that I doubt a reliable rebuild is probably out of the question. I totally agree on the Evo's!!!!! I think one of my biggest issues was the previous owner really hoped the bike up...but did not do anything to strengthen the main part of the motor...if that makes sense. It was a rocket, but almost over done. Thanks for the kind reply!

[@dynadude56]

Not possible for a hydro-lock, unless the valves both stick shut. In that case, there is no way for the oil to enter. I am guessing someone tried to free the motor by adding the oil through the spark plug hole, or the motor was left in a position for the oil to migrate into the cylinder. I'm thinking something happened to the left side crankshaft where the stator lives. If something hits that shaft dead on the end, it could have enough leverage the tweak the flywheels out of true. In that case, normal use would eventually destroy the crank pin. It's a surprisingly weak setup to start with, and if you add a bonehead tech into the equation, you can have a catastrophic outcome. That's one reason you never use any kind of puller on the stator that relies on the crank for a fulcrum. Yea, I know. The genius mechanic your friend knows said it's fine to use a puller, but then again, it's not his motor. You might inquire about the shop practice for removing and re-installing the huge nut on the end of the shaft that holds the compensator and rotor in place. If they use an air tool it can do damage if the air pressure is set too high. And BTW, the damage to the alternator wire cleat and screws was done when the crank broke and let the rotor spin out of true. That wasn't done by a boneheaded tech. Lifetime rider and bike mechanic here. Went to Harley school all over the country and have all the badges and class pictures to prove it. Worked at Collier HD in Roanoke Rapids NC for over 12 years officially. Several more unofficially. You get the drift. I'm not just a shade tree blockhead throwing darts. I probably could pinpoint the problem right off if I was doing this hands on. Like this it's a tough call. Good luck pard.

[@LeeRalph100]

I have dropped the thought of it being hydrolock. I did tip the motor when trying to move it..and I am not sure but my son did mention the idea of ol in the spark plug hole to try and loosen it up. I said not to do that...but he ay have tried on his own..I need to ask him about that. You have a great point about the the left side of the crank and the way in which they removed the compensator nut...this was an area they were working in..and replaced stator, among other things Thank You Sir for the very helpful comment!

[@TheLaughingLion]

this was awesome, easy to work on when pulled from the bike. 🦁👍👍👍👍👍

[@LeeRalph100]

Much easier :) Thanks for checking it out!

[@turtlemann14]

with that much oil in the cylinder you would have had one heck of a cloud behind you. id bet the shop used a impact on the stater. if the bearings locked you would think they would have spun for at least a second. doesn't look like a rotary break on the crank pin. you might want to presume them damaging your bike if you haven't.

[@bobgil3464]

You keep saying you are not a mechanic but you seem pretty intelligent.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You Sir for the very Kind Compliment!!!

[@warringwarthog]

my evo did the same thing we found out the oil pump went out it was cheaper to buy a s+s motor than a rebuild im much happier with the s+s

[@LeeRalph100]

WOW...I hope it was not a ride like I had!!! Did you have any indication at all that it was going to lock up when it did? I hope was not a serious lockup ...well to the bike it was...but I meant to yourself Which S&S did you go with? This was the type of reply and info I was looking for. Thank You!!!!

[@ltsgarage7780]

Which motor did you buy. I've had nothing but trouble with S&S & their 124. Just JUNK..

[@brianonthego]

Congratulations on 68k views. I remember when you made this one. Great job Lee.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks My Friend!! I am totally shocked at this!!!!!! I did not expect this at all!!! Take care my Friend...oh and keep us updated if you end up buying one of those bikes in your video!!!! Take Care!!

[@brianonthego]

70k views today...awesome. I will never buy a motorcycle....not comfortable on the road with cars. My son has a Sportster...I have a few videos on it....

[@MattFellowswasHere]

The Evo is not a “true” dry sump there’s always going to be 3/4 of a quart of oil or so on the bottom. So it’s not a fluid void nor fluid pressure loss. There’s a bigger piece/chunk of metal somewhere (not shown) & probably wedge shaped...somehow got stuck between one of those flywheels & the case...The shavings alone are just not enough to do it. Once the crankpin broke all bets were off & those flywheels smashed into the case and ruined the bottom-end entirely...

[@LeeRalph100]

Great Reply!! Thank You!

[@lipozor]

Every one can learn here out of this useful striping video and specially from Normans May analysis

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You for the very kind Comment!!

[@bluesriderDF]

Crap! Glad you survived. Time to sue that shop!!

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You...It was a ride I never want again!!! I wish I could prove it was their fault, but unitl then I am just stuck with fixing the bike myself...and just Thankful it did not turn out worse

[@ltsgarage7780]

@@LeeRalph100 wait till you put that S&S in it. Let us know how that's going a few thousand miles down the road. I'm pretty sure you'll have trouble with them also. S&S sells JUNK motors with poor customer service. I hope yours turns out ok.

[@ltsgarage7780]

@103 CiHD that's good. I've been dealing with this motor and its problems for a long time. It took over 6 months for them to replace my first 124. They refused to pay the shop any time to clean all the silver out of ever nook and cranny that shit stuck everywhere. Did they care. F... no they didn't. Then they wanted to rebuild my first motor. I said no to that. Then i just got the run around for over 6 months. They even wanted a core charge until we sent the 9POS motor back. This goes on and on.

[@ltsgarage7780]

@Jeffrey Simmons do you think only the people who have had good experiences with S&S should comment? It's a free world sir. That's what makes u-tube so great. I have moved on. I just want people to know that not ever motor is a good motor. I got 2 in a row. That makes me very suspicious of S&S. Plus I got terrible customer service......

[@ltsgarage7780]

@Jeffrey Simmons if you don't like what I have to say... Don't read it! That's pretty plain isn't it? 😋

[@murphfee617]

That sucks but glad your still above ground. Great tear down and good catch on that other cylinder I thought for shure she was going over. Well hope to see you out there in the wind soon Remember this time warm - ups and Oil changes Ralph.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You!!! The ride video did not fully catch the fishtailing. I thought at one point it was going to turn sideways and flip! I sure hope to get back in the wind soon..we had a bit of medical issue with the Mrs having open heart surgery and the bike came a distant second to taking care of her and the medical bills..so..it had to go. Maybe someday soon I will be able to get another. Sad part about the oil changes..this bike just came from the shop, it was there for 5 weeks altogether. Thanks for watching and the comment. Take care, Lee

[@dano4572]

J B weld it, and put back together! thats probably how the shop would've done it and charged you for it!

[@LeeRalph100]

LOL...You are probably right...Hey After I JB Weld it all back together I will give you the honor of the first ride LOL

[@ssskev]

I agree with Norman, if the head filled with oil it would miss then slow then build pressure to smash piston or conrod, to only have damage at bottom means only damage was started at base, no burn makes on conrod big end means no lock up with bearings, so it may have been fractured prior to all work done as you stated then as it ran perhaps better than before you may have loaded the engine under load more with it already having damaged bottom end that possibly may have failed later rather than sooner, to state HD shop may have caused this I dont think so, they may have made it a better engine that was always destined to fail, only my thoughts. Simply bad luck and good luck, you never feel off plus you get a new motor. Oh and the screw could come out with vibration, should have a bolt there not a screw.

[@NathansFerroceriumrods1]

The Harley shop did a bad job. Good tear down.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks Nathan, I even took it back to them, they said it wasn't there fault...and there must have been something wrong in the motor..I asked why did the not hear it after having it for so long. They said "well you have loud pipes"...LOL I guess mine is the first bike they ever worked on with loud pipes :)

[@jamesparsons3134]

Hi Nathan you are right on.... I am sure the Harley shop left something out or did something wrong when the engine was apart.... This big engine just did not decide to eat itself for breakfast..... jp

[@artmchugh5644]

Lee Ralph if they were concerned stuff rags in the loud pipes to hear the engine run . got over 195.000 miles on my ducati and don't understand having a failure of this kind .

[@LeeRalph100]

I agree James!! But they take no ownership of it. The bike was running great..if you watch the video of when it locked..A friend of mine was riding behind me and saw no tell tale signs anything was about to happen...in fact it caught him of guard and we about collided!

[@LeeRalph100]

Art, It truly was something I did not expect!!! Funny part about this story and the loud pipes, when I told my Dad the story (he has ridden since the mid 1950's) he told me that the LAST time he was at that dealership the current owners Grandfather owned it...when my Dad pointed out something they missed while working on his bike, they told him "Sorry did not hear it over the loud pipes" in fact that owner did not want bikes that had been "upgraded" in his shop LOL

[@geoffozevans4500]

Hi just watched your vlog, really good tear down. Just bought my Fatboy Lo Special (Ist HD) new for my 60th birthday , I would never have been able to do that job --- even with the factory manual. Sadly for you the dealership treated you badly, you would think HD would sort these robbers out, bit here in Wales there are stories like yours. Good luck with your new engine & many thanks for such a good vlog 🖒😎

[@LeeRalph100]

(sorry if this is a duplicate, I have been having issues with replies from my phone) Thank You Sir. Congrats on the new Bike!!!! I was really intimidated to start this tear down. Luckily I had found some pretty decent and helpful videos, read and re read the manual and had people like my Dad to call upon for advice. This is a dealership that is 3 generations old..they are a pretty good place to get a bike, they are great on putting "upgrades" on new bikes...but the service end is some what lacking. They have some decent mechanics..and a lot of guys that I really question their knowledge. My Ex Brother in Law used to work there..he was one of their better mechanics. He left because he refused to take short cuts and rush through jobs. Thanks Again, Take care!

[@SteveRobReviews]

Lee the rest of the bike looks great . A new S&S would be a good choice , in dependability and time. Look forward to seeing where it ends up. Yes it's a lot of cash . Liked the teardown and I wished I knew more. Cheers buddy.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks Steve. I think you are right, I have been weighing cost versus longevity and dependability and think a new S7S is the way to go...I just have to decide how much I want to dump into when choosing the correct motor. Thanks for sopping by, I hope you are having a great weekend, Cheers!

[@ltsgarage7780]

In my humble opinion. S&S is never a good choice. I've had the run around from S&S for over a year. Then they wanted to rebuild a junk motor they sold me. They wanted my shop to rebuild it not send it back & they rebuild it. I told them to send me a brand new motor this took over 6 months to get them to send me one. JUNK and not very good customer service.

[@dsnutzzz4567]

S&S is not a good idea unless you want to work on it all the time and just play around here and there u no bar hopping stuff not road trips or enjoying the road

[@azrezin5220]

Great video and awesome comment section. will watch and read again. I am going to be tearing my bike down and re-doing it. It's time. She needs a few things.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks for the view and the comment. I have learned so much from those willing to share their knowledge in the comments section. Good Luck on the tear down and rebuild!

[@sonnyjones426]

Bearing locked up . Hydro lock bends rod and smokes first . Is the shavings steel ? Or aluminum? Good luck sir.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks for that info!! Yeah the hydrolock was bad info on my part. Sorry about that

[@bosse641]

Those engines look like jewels.

[@LeeRalph100]

LOL...sadly broken jewels right now

[@bosse641]

But I'm sure you'll be getting it all together soon Lee :-)

[@LeeRalph100]

I sure hope so my Friend, Thanks!

[@Clearanceman2]

I'm used to engines lasting almost forever with proper maintenance.

[@vector6977]

Funny, there are millions of HD engines with well over 100,000 miles on them still running great.

[@roadrunner40]

@@vector6977 Millions?

[@vector6977]

@@roadrunner40 yes, dumbass, Millions.

[@LeeRalph100]

Well said, as I mentioned in another comment..there is a balance on all machinery between proper maintenance/repairs balanced with proper use by the operator.... If in balance any piece of machinery can last quite sometime..throw that balance off and.................

[@goyeabuddy]

hi lee, after watching your video on why this eng locked up, i think you are correct about the hyd lock.. as you know fluids will not compress & something has to break.. now what do you think caused the oil to enter the cyl? a lot of times when this happens, the piston will shove the oil out thru the exhaust valve, unless the oil was too excessive. do you think the oil pumps timing was not set correctly??

[@LeeRalph100]

I am not sure if I still hold to the hydro lock idea..it has been pointed out that if the motor had tipped at any time that could account for the oil. I have had a couple very good comments detailing why they thought it was not hydro lock. Some had pointed out to washers missing in the gear case side..either missing or destroyed accounting for the metal shrapnel in the case. I am not sure about the oil pump timing. I know the Dealer messed with the timing a bit..retarding it a bit to get it to start correctly without hammering the starter..I am not sure if that effected the oil timing as well. These are areas that I do not know much about

[@goyeabuddy]

years ago i had an old 'ironhead sporty & the crankcase was vented by a tube to the ground.. on a warm day & after running the Eng hard, like 70 plus it would dump a lot of oil out of the breather tube. after checking it out i found the oil timing was off by a 180 deg. i retimed the pump & never had the problem again. on the newer engs they don't have that system & the breather is recirculated back in to the eng through the throttle body or somewhere.. when you pulled the cam cover off, the cam came with it so it would be hard to tell if the oil timing was correct or not. these are just my thoughts, good look & i hope you find the cause..

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks for that info Terry. I am very limited in my knowledge of the engine itself...I have learned so much from great replies like yours. Sadly at this point I think I have realized that it ended up being more of a "can it be rebuilt?" search then a why...and I think the rebuild question is out of the question...both for safety and cost. Thanks again!

[@jonbarfield4915]

My thoughts is, during the shop doing the repairs may have hit the crank in a effort to remove the flywheel. All it takes is a hair line fracture.

[@LeeRalph100]

Good Point, they were not inside that part of the motor, but were in the gear case and in the primary, and had the head off. I am wondering if they used an impact on the compenstor nut..or forgot a washer or spacer causing vibration or movement allowing something else to shred clogging the oil pump or bearings? Thanks for the comment!!

[@rezdog311]

That bent and stripped bolt you pulled out of stator is surely a telltale sign of the tech that did the work, that sure was unacceptable to leave that in there like that.

[@wilson4804]

You stated you had your stator replaced as I understand I saw the poor work on that side when you took the side cover off did you notice and debris inside the cover or was the primary adjusted properly? There is more to know before a complete evaluation of your problem can be diagnosed.

[@LeeRalph100]

Great comment..and truthfully I will have to go back and check out what you pointed out. The Primary had been adjusted by the HD shop. Good catch.

[@silver3323]

Nevertheless, if there had been some lock up in the timing chest, I would expect to see significant damage. Probably many gear teeth stripped etc. The fact that a couple of square inches of steel crank pin sheared means that something even stronger than that caused the damage. There is nothing in the timing chest remotely strong enough to do that. Therefore I still think that the crank pin must have been significantly weaker than expected. Someone else mentioned looking at the broken face of the crank pin, probably with a microscope. To a trained eye (not mine), evidence of prior cracking or fatigue should be easy to spot.

[@stevepercival4774]

Sorry Lee I was more aiming at your viewers .it's refreshing to see one doing their own work-Safe riding

[@LeeRalph100]

Thanks Steve!! I wished I had taken a hands on approach long before now...I did minor repairs..I should have taken the time to educated myself a bit..then tackled some of the needed repairs myself. Live and Learn!!

[@semtech30]

Get it back from the shop after 5weeks. omg. and there you have it on a bench at home. You seem to know your mechanics, why on earth didn't you do the work yourself in the first place. ? This is a bad luck engine. Best part is your alive to demonstrate. Ya.

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You for the kind compliment. I had started to do the work myself...but then became completely at a lose for free time. I wished I had tackled it now myself..especially when it originally went in..it only went in for a starter replacement...and I already owned the new strater that I was putting in. You are so right about the good part off the whole deal..it was a scary ride for sure when she locked up!! Thanks for watching and the comment!!

[@fredharris4342]

ABSOLUTELY RIVETING (n.p.i.) vid to watch, for this soon-to-be Newbie rider, Lee! I've never seen a mc engine torn apart from top down to its bones...and have wanted to for a LONG time! AWESOME "mc engines, 101" educational film, Sir - MANY THANKS! :)

[@LeeRalph100]

Thank You Sir! LOL I like the pun! I am so glad that you liked it, I hope that it was helpful. Sadly, I did not find the exact cause of the lock up...but sadly I did learn that any chances of a quick and cheap repair were now out of the question...to much damage. Thanks for watching and the very kind comment. Take care!