Chaos Dwarf Army Roster Tier List

[@LegendofTotalWar]

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[@mateuszk3812]

About Skullcracker vs Iron Daemon. Skullcracker does better in meele than Iron Daemon because it have somewhat better attack pattern. Its frontal steam balst cone is better and also have additional front blades fall-attack pattern. But i cant say its that much better in its role, mainly because the blades fall-attack is rare and ofthen hits the spot that was cleared by the steam blast few seconds ago. Although it can deliver good damage if it lands TLDR : I agree with your tier placement, just wanted to bring up that differences

[@Kristjan0209]

Wanted to know if you have also experienced the mortars instead of attacking the unit you targeted they instead just fire at whatever comes into range first

[@TisTheWay]

I am surprised you didn't mention at the truck race motors with attached trains on them cost to unit cards

[@darhubsch9939]

😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@darhubsch9939]

😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@nickcoupe2964]

"Small entities like Dwarf Lords." In the book.

[@walldogification]

I think he's underestimated the magma cannon. On paper is missile damage isn't amazing. However it's shots leave a lingering burning effect that can devestate densely packed or slow units. 1 shot from a magma cannon will take of half the health of a unit of dwarf warriors. Not to mention their incredible acuracy means trhey practicaly never miss. if you ensure they're not warting their shots firing into injured or scattered units they can decimate an enemy army before they can even get into missile range.

[@andre_clearsky]

I prefer magma then hellcannons. Hellcannons have a strange arch of fire and get blocked by the terrain a lot.

[@eergegerg23]

And magma cannons also good vs enemy artiilery because of that burning effect ability. Tested on cathay cannons.

[@loveluclins]

This. This makes me feel like he didn't really use these units in campaign enough. Same for skullcrackers which still have their uses.

[@EkEMaN91]

Similar miss on the Dreadquakes. They don't have the accuracy of magma, but much easier with their high arcs for when engagement begins. They also have a slowing effect, as well as the DoT effect of the maga, and a larger radius for their explosion.

[@TheSpencer1000]

Agreed. Magma cannon is better then the hell cannon most of the time. Its lingering effect make it do fairly similar damage to the hell cannons plash, but its accuracy and range are just loads better.

[@Eliwood29]

Gonna have to slightly disagree on the 2 dreadquake Variants because the iron Daemon and Skullcracker Dreadquake Mortars take 2 unit capacities to recruit one of them but they are the better units but taking 2 capacities each gets expensive in armaments so much faster

[@codythemadman]

yeah i agree i think he overlooked that

[@callumgoff8117]

legend you didnt take into account that the dreadquake mortar without any attachment uses only 1 unit cap as oppose to the other variants which use two, therefore it makes it a lot harder to say which is better

[@simonbas6]

Gobbo labourers have exactly 1 purpose, and that is to be recruited into a 20 stack with an overseer with harsh master and used to turn a settlement into an infinite labour farm. The Deathshrieker rocket is actually really really good at counterbattery too. 1 hit can kill an artillery model and the demo rocket actually has light tracking, kinda like the hellcannon which makes it surprisingly accurate. I had a deathshrieker in demo rocket mode outduel 3 little groms in a clean fight, it took a pasting in return fire but it survived the engagement. The other thing I've noticed is that the deathshreiker has lousy tracking because of its super low projectile speed and high firing arc, so its throughly useless against moving infantry

[@WyvernLi]

@simonbas6 what do you mean by turn a settlement into an infinite labour farm?

[@simonbas6]

@Masque okay so labour farming 101. When you raid an enemy region, you get money and labour. If you raid a region with a 20 stack of gobbo labourers, then you get like 200 gold and 150 labour. The army itself costs about 600gpt, and you can do this with as many armies that you can cram into a region. Each army essentially converts 400 gold into 150 labour every turn, and 150 labour is worth about 1200 gold if you use sell labour, so it's essentially infinite profitif you do it somewhere that the enemy can't attack you

[@WyvernLi]

@@simonbas6 the bigbrain strats

[@simonbas6]

@@WyvernLi lol, I wish. Credit for this one goes to battlesey

[@inblood123]

Magma canon is anti-infantry, it can solo units for cheaper than the Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher or dreadquake since every shot is like a mini vortex, like test it out. Beyond that I think the list is pretty accurate, I think the skull cracker should be like a tier 1 war machine and have its own cap with the iron daemon, because otherwise its either recruited because I have nothing else to make or Im trying to experiment.

[@emanuelalfred1565]

For some reason, when I tested skull crackers, they seem to route infantry faster than the iron daemon with basic frontal charges. I’ll probably need to run more tests. The iron daemon shots are nice but once the distance closed and a charge becomes required, it didn’t necessarily cause a route like the skull cracker. I do enjoy placing my Iron Daemon in between blunderbusses and letting it fire in unison with blunderbusses. Skull crackers get buffed in a separate skill point line than iron daemons so they do have more potential in the melee department (+24% weapon STR, +6 MA, +12 charge bonus, +10 physical resistance) also receiving the same buffs as Iron daemons in the manufactory. When I tested them, it was in quick battles though. Minor but Zhatan can also provide all of his units +15 armour, +5 leadership, and plus 5 MD which further boost skullcrackers.

[@吴昊-p2i]

Dreadquake Mortar = 1 unit caps,Iron Daemon-Dreadquake Mortar = Skullcrusher-Dreadquake Mortar = 2 unit caps

[@anvos658]

Sure, but mobile artillery that can defend itself and do more than be artillery once lines meet > than regular artillery.

[@Olav_Hansen]

Dreadquake mortars with iron demons just enables crazy sort of kite builds. One dreadquake, 4 anti large bull centaurs and the rest hobgoblin cav (mostly archers) can handle most things the game will throw at them. And yes even though it's tempting to make full dwarf and full hobgoblin armies, I think those mixed armies have great potential and gives a ton of army compositions (same with hobgoblin cutthroats combined with blunderbusses).

[@BigBoneBusiness]

My thoughts after ~150 turns playing Drazhoath on Hard battle/campaign difficulty: Magma Cannons abuse AI quirks and it's part of the reason they're so good imo. When they hit infantry, for example, the projectile/explosion will kill several entities, then the unit will attempt to reform and in the process, more entities will die running into the fire puddle left behind. Hobgoblin Archers are very cost-effective, especially if you abuse different fire weakness effects, which you have several to choose from in the form of magic and contact effects. Against low-armor targets with +fire damage debuffs, they can punch above their weight. Don't forget that the forge can give your melee infantry armor sundering for some extra damage, if you wanna go that route. The fire weakness concept applies to Fireglaives. They don't do as much damage per shot as Blunderbusses, but the higher range and fire damage gives them a lot of potential. Their anti-large bonus is only +5 so they're not actually all that great at fighting large enemies in melee, but it seems (in my experience) that they perform very well in auto-resolve. They also appear to be very accurate if you're worried about friendly fire, and your dwarf units having 25% fire resist helps mitigate this further. Blunderbusses can also abuse fire weakness with Flaming Sword of Rhuin for bursting enemies down. I don't know if there's any skill or technology that gives them permanent fire damage, however. For Fireglaives and Blunderbusses both, using the guard mode feature that allows them to keep shooting while in melee can make them very dangerous even when enemy infantry get on top of them. Hobgoblin Wolf Raiders have an ability somewhat similar to Devastating Flanker that allows them to get +25% weapon strength when flanking (including the archer variant). It's a no-brainer, but something to consider when trying to micro them onto archers or when using them as a decent-enough hammer to your anvil. The Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz RoR is really good imo. Higher armor, shields, better stats, and a ranged attack. However, I think they might be bugged and can't fire in a circle like the normal Wolf Raider archers can, but I haven't played without the community bug fix patch in a while. Deathshriekers sometimes struggle with hitting single entities with their single-target attack, and they don't do as much damage as the Magma Cannon against infantry, but their firing arc can still make them useful for firing over terrain, walls or your own units. I think it's a decent all-rounder but nothing too amazing.

[@planomathandscience]

When I've finally got over the overkill content for these guys I'll come back and rewatch. Great analysis as usual. Really hoping for a legend stream (in the shirt) with no chorfs!

[@suddenidentity6500]

@Legendoftotalwar, remember, that those mortars witch attachments take "2" unit slots of their tier.

[@one_pang]

Magma cannons are S+ tier. In a league of their own.

[@4dealliance598]

The gobbo laborers are great slowers, you stick them near valuable range or artillery to slow down any enemy charges, and then bring in heavier units to wipe out the enemy attackers

[@Doombot221]

I wonder if you added notes on some of the upgrade potential for chaos dwarf units how that would adjust any ratings potentially. The K'dai becoming unbreakable permanently for example seems like something that might boost them higher. But I guess it would be a different list ultimately, maybe covering which types of units have better upgrade mechanics in the hell forge

[@GreenElite87]

One major benefit of the greenskin archers of this roster is that they innately deal fire damage, which can be boosted by one of their Pyromancy wizards. Also, with CHaos Dwarf starting locations (Immortal Empire map) there are plenty of factions that have regenerating and weak to fire units.

[@bezretmet]

i wish i could play chaos dwarfs for a second first time. the rush of playing CD and recruiting blunderbuss units and seeing them turn enemy troops into cheddar cheese was such a delight

[@sloppyjoppy8226]

Fun fact, bull centures duel axes are completely fucked in auto resolve, as astragoth, the one you start with gets roughly 500kills each autoresolve against anything, it is super high valued by the autoresolver for some reason.

[@joshck5113]

Been looking forward to this video in particular, thank legend!!!

[@darkness_visible7227]

I don't usually disagree, but your experience with artillery was pretty different from mine. Magma cannons were absolute mvps. TORE through enemy infantry. I switched to mortars later on and was honestly a little underwhelmed. If they got a direct hit they were nasty, but magma cannons continually equalled if not exceeded their kill numbers. Are for how much cheaper they are, and how early they're available? Yeah. Magma S tier, no question. I also ended up favouring the mortars without trains. The double unit capacity was not worth the extra movement speed. Fast mortar is good, but two mortars, or two magma cannons, is better.

[@dwarfminerwillie]

The fire damage on chaos dwarfs is really good actually if you pair it with a Hashut mage (which you always should because hashut lore is strong as hell) for the ash storm, you pair that with even just a line of goblin fire archers and it will melt infantry along with the smith or sorcerers flame pisto which debuffs fire too, legend i'm starting to question you I keep noticing these little details that make it seem like you hardly play the game anymore.

[@Nightmare_52]

via the tower of zharr you can get 1 free unit cap upgrade every 5(?) turns of various units so you can technically get infinite units of them if you wait a loooooooooong time there is one very good use for the goblin laborers, fill an army with 19 of them and have it stay in provinces with public order problems, the army wont be that expensive especially with a trained lord and if you are attacked it will help out by giving lots of extra fodder for the garrison

[@TheBarser]

Actually not a bad idea since there is increased army upkeep for chorfs

[@zacharyjackson1829]

please dont ever use your conclave influence on those stupid unit cap buffs, they are incredibly stupid. you don't even get to choose which one it increases as the unit selection is random. you should also be swimming in armaments quite easily. use your influence for more important things like ancillaries and industry improvements

[@Skeleton-chan]

You can also use them to raid for more labour in valuable provinces, like Zharr Naggrund. Fast track your industry with rush constructions, sell excess for money and conclave influence. There's no supply lines penalty either as Chorfs.

[@Nightmare_52]

@@zacharyjackson1829 bruh I'll have every seat in the whole tower and you want all the caps increased no matter what so free unit cap is good either way

[@zacharyjackson1829]

@Nightmare _ of course go for it when there's nothing else left but those seats should be the literal last you go for Hell I'd even argue that ignoring them and using the influence for boosting captured tower settlements would be more useful...

[@iielysiumx5811]

Chaos dwarfs are so strong once they get going. They start off pretty weak with armies largely made of cannon fodder but by about turn 50 they’re pretty unstoppable, the frontlines are amazing, the blunderbusses tear through everything when they have a good line of fire, and there monsters, artillery and war machines are all strong af

[@WAFFLEMAN38]

When I was recruiting war machines for the first time, I had spent a solid 15 minutes staring at the skullcracker vs iron daemon trying to figure out why skullcrackers were more expensive. Made no sense lol

[@digiorno1142]

I feel like the fire glaives are designed as a frontline hybrid unit. You place them on your frontline so they shoot as the enemy is advancing to soften them up, and then cleaning them up with their good melee stats. A lot of people use them as strictly ranged units like blunderbusses which is kind of bad because they are simply mediocre at range. Fireglaives IMO are designed as a combination of the infernal guard and the blunderbusses.

[@maskdanger]

I recruited 4 chaos dwarf blunderbuss from my chaos dwarf ally as Nurgle and they melted the greenskins in battle.

[@rustypotato9604]

Fire resistance is a thing but chaos dwarfs have multiple ways of increasing fire weakness as well

[@jureissicpork4432]

Btw the Unethical trait is bugged on Infernal Castellans, it does not reduce the upkeep cost

[@daniellipko710]

I actually really like the melee hobgoblin wolf riders, as opposed to the archers; they're fast, great at suppressing enemy missile fire, they shred through trolls, and you can stick Gorduz Backstabber in there for a pretty good mobile strike team. I also prefer the normal Dreadquake instead of the variants, I just don't think they provide double the value to justify their cost.

[@shiggydiggy6847]

In my experience deathshrieker cluster shot has real difficulty hitting a moving target, while the anti-large shots semi-decent against monstrous units. Magma cannons however, delete everything that isn't a single entity. The shot itself doesn't do that much damage, but the little vortex it leaves just deletes everything it touches. And it's more effective when the enemy is closing in since their models are essentially pushing into the vortex. I'm not a fan of the infernal guard either. Speaking specifically about the mid-tier variants. They can be good if you invest into their buffs, but the basic chorf warriors hold the line well enough while being cheaper and more available. And the elite ones delete enemies with their grenades and fireglaives, although getting them is more of an investment.

[@alemorikec]

C.D.Blunders when positioned correctly took an "decisive defeat" auto resolve defense to a close victory. If they are looking down a line they shred.

[@Insandom]

Skull-Cracker should inflict a melee defense and missile parry malus. Saw blading through shields and stuff.

[@Auvinius]

Legend: Armaments don't grow on trees. Chorf: Totally agree. That is why you cut them all down and use them to fuel your industry!

[@BOYVIRGO666]

I kinda expect that were going to see the blunderbuss be nerfed in the coming weeks. they can shred nearly anything you put them up against.

[@h4rdlyware587]

Finallllly. I was waiting for that❤❤

[@chrisgos]

Honestly, unit caps should be put for all races. No more single unit doomstacks.

[@alexanderwetherell4779]

Demolition rocket works on single entities really well tbh

[@Flamerule13th]

Bull centaurs dual axes are the best variant - unlike infantry with great/dual weapon variants here dual axe version has armor piercing, so they work solidly against large even without anti-large bonus. Also considering what you'll be fighting as chorfs will be mostly infantry - orcs to your east; dwarves to your west; norsca to the north; rats or elves to the south. The only large-heavy faction nearby are ogres, but they're too weak to specialize against them.

[@illumin4t152]

good list, but to be fair you forgot to mention that the trains uses 2 unit caps for on unit

[@J-Martijn]

Despite opponents having fire resistance. The Chaos Dwarf sorceror lord's ranged attack has flammable, combined with their Rune of Hashut ability and Ash Storm Spell, 2 units of HobGoblin Archers can shoot down Imrik...

[@Rewwgh]

Magma Cannon to top tier, Shrieker to Trash Tier with an asterisk. If enemies are clumped by terrain for example, then the cluster attack will wreak decent havoc. I also don't like any of the Monsters, even as Mounts. But they do have some niche uses for example against Sky-Junks and in offensive sieges. The Destroyer I do actually find to do well against infantry, especially if it "flanks" them while the units its attacking, are mired in a stack of Dwarf Warriors.

[@simongloutnez589]

I like the chaos dwarf really solid roster. I must say that having 2-3 magama canon as soon as possible allows for an ez victory for the quest item battle. They SHRED those vampire and tomb king units so bad! (That weakness to fire comes in handy).

[@ilari90]

I'd value Magma Cannon higher for it's accuracy and early game oomph it gives. It takes out even heavier infantry from afar and one shot takes 1/3rd or half of a unit with it. I think also that the Deathsrieker anti large rocket is a bit more accurate than you say here. I think I usually value magma cannon more than a deathshrieker even, although ds is better when there's line of sight issues.

[@El_Cattivo1988]

Infernal Guard Fireglaives for me Toptier is my Doomstack.

[@yoda0017]

I use basic hobgoblins as a meatwall the enemy has to run into while blunderbusses behind just destroy the enemy. When I don't feel like being fancy with unit positioning. Boatloads of friendly fire but I just don't care.

[@alexcyr4149]

Great video as always! Could you please make a little video on the Chaos Dwarf economy and when/where to put Factories/Outposts/Towers?

[@ilari90]

Make what you need, mostly, they are quite easy to swap if you need to adjust. Pure outpost provinces aren't usually that good, but pure factory provinces can be good after you have decent raw materials coming. Usually I go outpost + factory mix early game, then specialize. Of course early you need to lean on raw materials so outposts more. Towers I use almost always. Factories are also good anywhere you need to defend as they are small settlement battles which can be easy with blunderbuses and all the off map artillery

[@alexcyr4149]

@@ilari90 thanks! I was leaning towards something kind of like that but not quite, much appreciated!

[@JeneralMills]

The only good thing about the labourers units is raiding for labour and money. A full stack of goblins on a high tier city will make back 3x the cost of the army per turn

[@vladdrakul7851]

Chaos Dwarves rule! Love their little buddies as well. Hob Gobbos are the BEST Gobbos!

[@chrispaul7595]

about what I expected Im glad they made the death shrieker rocket more accurate, I do occasionally use orc labourers just as a trash stack, to help tie down my opponent so my much stronger army can get a better position . goblins are completely useless

[@deskslam4232]

PFFFFT Chaos Dwarfs in Altdorf 😂 Never thought I'd see the day!

[@colbunkmust]

The units that use to have high fire resistance were significantly nerfed in the last patch, and that was after being nerfed when immortal empires was released so units with fire attacks aren't as much of a disadvantage as they used to be.

[@MichaelBecker-r2j]

Could be that the speed on the dreadquake (non-mobile version) is for the operators (similar to how treb/catapault operators move at a half-decent clip)? I 100% agree though that putting 60 on the unit card is... misleading at best.

[@williamxii4343]

New tier list on Warrior of Chaos? perhaps

[@martinlysy]

I liked spear wolf riders more than archers ones, because they fire everytime only on few entities instead of on the entire unit.

[@rothern3761]

oh boy, 5 am legend, my favorite :)

[@CognetoBurrito]

Anyone else notice how hard the Chaos Dwarf roster counters the Wood Elf roster? I wonder if that was deliberate..

[@pumpknight8539]

I hope it was, fuck the hippie elves

[@ilari90]

I don't think it's deliberately made against wood elves, lol, they don't tend to be near any wood elves either until later in the campaign.

[@CognetoBurrito]

​@@ilari90 True enough. I was just taken aback by how strongly they counter Wood Elves in battle.

[@steffent.6477]

Every destroyer doomstack needs at least one more wizard beside Drazhoath because he doesn't have the repair/heal ability.

[@Tsubaki189]

You can gain the Umbreakable trait with the K'dai Demons which is pretty good since you can let them in the battlefield and they wont decay, but yeah, they're squishy as hell :c

[@morland192]

I came to many of the same conclusions myself on my first Chorf campaign except i'd put the fireglaive on the same tier as blunderbuss simply because of the range and accuracy for taking out SEM, lords or cav. YES blunderbusses can do the same when they get close, however the ability to prio target important SEM / lords at range before they get too close is more valuable to me. You don't need the infantry nuking ability of blunderbusses in a roster where ALL the artillery and magic is so amazing at deleting infantry whereas the targeted anti-large is left to the gunpowder units really and in my opinion fireglaives do this better than blunderbusses and with far less friendly fire

[@kwdblade4683]

Did Legend just tell us to... to make a... Ba-ba-balanced...army?

[@bali4n1]

I think the Iron Deamon Dreadquack mortar is actually trash. It takes 2 capacity slots, which is insane on its own. The worst thing though is that you can't turn off fire at will for them, because that only turns off the secondary cannon of the Iron Deamon. So the mortar never stops firing which can lead to a lot of friendly fire and wasted ammo.

[@steakdriven]

"Okay" in autoresolve? Tell that to Imrik.

[@TentacleTherapy]

Pretty sure Magma cannons and blunderbusses are the reason they had to add black orcs to the jobber orc armies for them to even stand a chance.

[@LiquidCesspool]

Skull cracker is the only chaos dwarf unit that's specializes in destroying towers and walls, and it has an aoe steam attack.

[@emanuelalfred1565]

For some reason, when I tested Skullcrackers against infantry, they routed them faster than Iron Daemons in quick battle. I’ll have to run more tests because the sample size is small right now. Campaign wise, Skull crackers can separate themselves from iron daemons as a melee powerhouse with the tools provided to the player. Skullcrackers can get up to 24% weapon strength, +6 melee attack, 10% physical resist, and +12 charge from skill points alone. They share the same armament buffs as iron daemons so you can give them barrier, perfect vigor, an additional 20% physical resistance, a hex to reduce armour by 15, and blazing body (increasing melee damage reflection up to 25 and 10%, if they for some reason, get stuck in combat instead of charging). They can be healed so any damage taken in battle can be resolved before ending the battle. They can also get vanguard deployment and stride to keep their speed up-ignoring terrain. Zhatan can also provide them with additional armor, leadership, and MD. Of course, all of this takes investment. Other units are good without it. But we definitely have the tools to make them chainsaw chariots that take little damage.

[@mawortz]

skullcraker should have 175 upkeep , it would make sense then

[@Kvorto]

Damn should be nice to be able to play the dlc you bought. Cant even start a campaign with patch 3.0

[@taylorpayne1993]

Love this content you’re the best

[@randomaccessfemale]

Even the labourers have their use in raid armies.

[@TheTreekin]

I just skill the 2nd tier infantry. But the time I want an army of dwarves instead of gobbos, I can get the 3rd tier

[@canedy999]

personally, I find Lamassu are really good as mounts for heroes and lords. keeps the aura and bound spells but uses their stats, from being a lord and items.

[@alexanderwetherell4779]

Also lots of enemys having fire resistance means nothing to chaos dwarves you have sooo many ways to reduce it up to -100% so the take double dmg

[@Tiberium10332]

I hope they add a little icon to the different dread mortar unit cards

[@peterrehm490]

I really like the Bull Centaurs too. They are very good.

[@adriankoch964]

Is there a difference in raiding output between Gobin and Orc laborers in a pure raiding stack that's never gonna fight (or if attacked, is not expected to fight at all). For example to park it in Zharr Naggaron or Nagashizzar to extract labor from the sentinel factions. Wich one is best in terms of raid-labor to upkeep cost?

[@ilari90]

Gobbos. The stack is cheaper than it gets from the raiding with an overseer as a lord so you can have almost unlimited number of those.

[@jamesjamsey]

Just know that the hero trait that reduces upkeep for fireglaives and recruit cost is bugged and does not work.

[@sealteamsesh8742]

The other 2 versions of the dreadquake mortar costing double the unit capacity makes them a bad choice IMO. Getting 2 regular dreadquakes to every 1 of the other variants is too good

[@gijskramer1702]

Favorite stack is a hashut lord with gorduz and 18 hobgoblin wolfriders with bows. Defeated 2 skaven armys whilst being ambushed. Normal battle difficulty tho

[@schizosamurai8840]

Imagine caring about friendly fire, haha blunderbuss goes brrrrt

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@yari4046]

chaos dwarfs show how good a unit cap system can be in incentivizing players to make varied armies and not just the same 3 units over and over, it honestly baffles my mind that not ever faction has some kind of unit cap system but ig thats just CA being CA

[@leonardwiltsch9290]

skullcracker perhaps has more melee spash ??? still not worth it. i think ca should spread out the war machines to give them an indevidual cap but a bit more expensive

[@H.Stiglitz]

cheers legend

[@ndsneg]

Rocket launcher is unaccrate vs big targets?! Whaaat? It's op because of homing missiles. I use 4 of them and they kill lords and monsters before engagement

[@jackh7977]

I love uding kdai destroyers to clump all the opposing infantry up infront of my firing lines. Also they just look so fucking badass

[@endycore4920]

Is there gonna be a tier list for hellforge unit upgrades?

[@Throgman33]

Skullcracker pathfinding is also TERRIBLE. The thing gets stuck on the tiniest bumps in the road and completely exposes itself to artillery. You have to babysit it more than the K'daai.

[@rebol6497]

It's a tier list but all I can see is how tf did he take over such a large area at turn 77. Mine's literally at a f-fest with Imrik Ghorst Greasus whack-a-mole

[@Fulgrim88]

Greenskin tiers were a bit too obvious, I would have preferred a more granular S+ to D tier one here as well

[@VileScarMind]

Magma cannons consistently outdamage hellcannons for me by 50%+. Larger AOE and longer lasting DOT/area effect.

[@JWSoul]

I didnt use the Mortars in my playthrough..

[@yasha6739]

Now do Army Roster G.O.A.T Edition Please ;)

[@SenseiLlama]

I think the chaos dwarfs are some of the best balanced as far as campaigns. You have reason to recruit chaff even late game. You have incentives to diversify instead of just brainless doomstacking. I think if all the factions encouraged diversity the game would be more fun.

[@derangedbottle8327]

I liked the video but more tiers were needed

[@rogergraf1634]

Armaments doesn't grow on Trees... * is getting 7k per Turn * ;)

[@RandomIdiotGS]

...Blunderbusses into the highest tier and Fireglaives a tier lower? No, no way, dude. Blunderbusses will carry you through early and midgame, sure, but Fireglaives are really the supplement to your staple artillery. Blunderbusses should be phased out or added to some chaff armies to give a little bit of extra punching power, but lategame Blunderbusses can be countered. Especially against AI who starts spamming ranged units, Blunderbusses are going to be a very vulnerable supplement to your armies. Blunderbusses are like B-Tier if you consider lategame. They will never do much because your artillery will do everything and you don't want enemy armies to get close, lol. That's why you use Fireglaives to use their ridiculous DPS to kill some single targets that might just reach you. I agree with you about the default Dreadquake being slow, but, given that you shouldn't have any lategame worries and the default Dreadquake's slowness is only rarely an detriment I'd say you can still consider it S-Tier. Or A-Tier, if you rate cost-efficiency hard, because you don't need Dreadquakes (it's just that you can and you will). Also labourers aren't trash. Add them in upkeep reduction armies and send them to raid. Everywhere. Spam it. They are part of your eco snowball. How I'd rank CD units: S = Magma Cannons, Fireglaives, Dreadquake (All) A = Hellcannon, Deathshrieker, Bull Centaur Renders (All), Infernal Firesworn, Goblin Labourers B = K'daai Destroyer, Blunderbusses, Hobgoblin Wolf Raiders (Bows), Hobgoblin Archers, Infernal Guard (All), Hobgoblin Sneaky Gits, Orc Labourers C = CD Warriors (All), Hobogblin Cutthroats D = Skullcracker, Lammasu, Bale Taurus, Great Taurus, Iron Daemon, K'daai Fireborn, Hobgoblin Wolf Raiders (Spears), F = My D-Tier is really just an F-Tier, as they are units that you never ever have a reason to get... but... they are still CD units that you can easily make more powerful than some enemy units. You should at least trade well with them. But why get them if you can get much better stuff?

[@riley_028]

the skullcracker is pretty pathetic honestly and I don't know what CA was thinking. if you compare it to the Iron Daemon, you'll notice it has LITERALLY only worse stats. everything that is different is worse, even the cost. you get them at the same time, and you increase their capacity at the same time, so you should only ever get Iron Daemons

[@_minty_3326]

I think you're being way too nice, as much as I love their roster. I agree mostly, but honestly I'd bump the regular dreadquake into trash, as well as the deathshrieker and (as much as I love him) the Destroyer - at least without upgrades from the manufacturers. A dreadquake without any attachment may take less slots but it's honestly just dog. Even with upgrades I can legit say I've never seen a deathshrieker perform well at all, to the point where I actively avoid using them. And man, I love K'Daai Destroyers but holy shit man they suffer SEM syndrome so much. When you slap some barrier and true unbreakable they're alright, but out-of-box I find them waaay too squishy to spend that much money/armaments/upkeep on only for them to get shot to death if I stop paying attention to them for 20 seconds by goblin archers. I would probably dump taurus and bale taurus each down a tier too. Like, they're fine, but eh. Considering you can get lords/heroes to get on them without increasing the cap and them ALSO coming with a hero on top, they're not too good (tho I agree that the breath attack on the baleboi is much nicer to use than a dragon's). Would honestly just rather grab Lammasus over them, bc uses of the withering and enfeebling with no cast time as well as an anti-magic attacks aura are much more useful imo (although they also suffer the whole "just get an overseer lord lol" issue).

[@Prophaniti666]

Very surprised by the artillery rankings. I've found Hellcannons to be complete trash, they can't hit anything. By contrast, I love the Deathshrieker's single rocket attack, and find it to be wonderfully accurate. With the way it homes in, I usually hit even fairly small single mounted characters with every shot. I don't get the inaccuracy criticism at all.

[@b2modby]

Im surprised Magma cannon is at merely good while Hellcannon is at Amazing teir.

[@sethnewlin510]

Couldn't disagree more about the Dreadquake. The standard version is HANDS DOWN better than the war machine variants and it isn't even close. You pay more than double to armaments to turn your backline artillery into a chariot, and it costs the same amount of upkeep as if you had just brought a Dreadquake and a seperate Iron Daemon. The only difference is the number of unit slots it takes, which is essentially a non-factor since you could just run two armies side by side if you're really hurting for extra unit slots. Besides using half the unit slots the war machine train version is just objectively worse in every way. You shouldn't need to worry about how it fares in melee, if you can't keep your artillery out of melee with THIS roster than you've got a lot of learning to do before a tier list is gonna do you any good. What's more, as good as the Dreadquake is I think it's still not as good as Legend makes it out to be. Two Dreadquakes cost as much upkeep as 5 Magmas and one Dreadquake with war machine is nearly as expensive as 4 Magma Cannons. I'd rather have the Magmas in basically any conceivable situation. Obviously one Dreadquake is stronger than one Magma, but in terms of cost effectiveness the Magma Cannon is pretty clearly superior in my opinion. Sure, Chorfs have a crazy strong gold economy but as I already said if gold isn't a concern then just run multiple armies, unit slots are hardly a consideration for anything but your LL army for quest battles. TL;DR Standard Dreadquake is probably "Good" tier but both the Iron Daemon and Skullcracker variant are "Trash" and the Magma Cannon is "GET ME MORE"