Lemongrab: Adventure Time's Autistic Monarch?

[@Dratina]

One of the things I kind of wanna bring up is the fact that Lemongrab is a character from an older show- so I honestly think that if he was designed with autism in mind then the designer was perhaps leaning into the stereotypes. Also I don't think he's a bad character to actually be autistic personally- I think he's bad to represent autism to individuals who are not already extremely familiar with the disability as (like Carlos said) it could leave someone with the wrong impression of autism. With all respect to the character, autistic people aren't heartless, we're just as human as you

[@oswaldcrowley]

agree, it's annoying as it is with jokes that's more or less just stating "of course you don't understand, you're autistic" and now learning it's a stereotype with autistic people being heartless? just pisses me off more.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Many autistic coded characters are not deliberately written than way and are instead based on someone the writer knows.

[@deezlastnane5412]

REAL

[@AmaVandiloveit2006]

As someone who's autistic thanks for Believing I'm not heartless

[@Atlan3]

can you tell me the older show? i didnt knew.

[@nikolai1010]

I kinda interpreted the whole lemon white and lemon grey thing as an abusive relationship/household. Like the entire castle has to tiptoe around lemon grey, and despite lemon White's attempts at making their lives better, white still has to go along with grey because of the risk of being eaten

[@CarlolucaS]

Now that is a very interesting read on the whole situation.

[@thedemonhater7748]

This is Gonna sound stupid, but “eaten” does literally rhyme with “beaten,” so the comparison is apt

[@juicebox7372]

​@thedemonhater7748 yes it does rhyme, do you not knowe how to pronounce

[@serfaI]

@@juicebox7372 he didnt ask if it rhymed, do you not knowe how to read

[@Over0w0MeAmTheHotel]

After both the lemongrabs were fuzed together would they technically be lemonlightgrey then?

[@PlanetZoidstar]

I could believe Lemongrab is meant to represent a particular type of Autism - Undiagnosed, untreated/unsupported Autism. Keep in mind Lemongrab spent most of his life completely alone, with an emotionally distant, neglectful mother. He didn't get the support or treatment he needed, PB basically sent him away so she didn't have to deal with him. Autistic children need structure, support, and means to understand and cope with their condition. Lemongrab never got any of that.

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah... kinda though I doubt an undiagnosed, untreated, and unsupported cause of autism would result in a tyrannical cannibalistic monarch. Not a bad idea though. Maybe the execution could have been better.

[@pandachan3127]

@@CarlolucaSya but that part is probably just for plot not as a representation of “oh all autists are crazy enough to commit cannibalism” but I’m ngl when I was a kid ppl saw me as tyrannical bc I wanted things my way but that’s as before I started to mask lmaoooo soooooo

[@pandachan3127]

@@CarlolucaSbut ofc not all autists are the same whatsoever! But he just calls to me and some of the autists. :P

[@RobertJohnson-hp4gz]

What you said is on point 100%. People with extreme cases of autism may function differently than the average individual but still need a support system. Lemon Grab was literally trying to create that structure on his own and lashed out when he was over stimulated, trying to create balance for himself once again.

[@clamantstone]

​@CarlolucaS you underestimate our power

[@manscapedgrinch1427]

I'll never not find it odd that as a child I not only had a hard time with communication outside of my family unit, but also would get so angry at myself that I would bite the ever loving shit out of my forearm, and neither of my parents were like "maybe we should talk to someone about this."

[@CarlolucaS]

Well, not many people even knew even 10 or 20 years ago that it was a thing. For example, there are probably a bunch of cases where they burned people at the stake and they were probably schizophrenic. Or, and this is pure speculation, it could be that prophets were schizophrenic people going through episodes.

[@manscapedgrinch1427]

@@CarlolucaS that is a good point, and I've considered that possibility before as well.. it would be interesting to know how many of the big movers and shakers of history acted or thought the way that they did because of a condition they had.

[@CarlolucaS]

@@manscapedgrinch1427 Probably quite a few. When you read some of things philoshopers wrote it does sound sometimes like someone having an episode.

[@Blimbus-Blombo]

​@@CarlolucaSalso as a former judeo-christian i just want to point out that a lot of the rituals and laws under the Mosaic Law have a very OCD flavor to them (as someone with pretty bad OCD myself.) Especially ones where you have to repeat things so many times etc. And a lot of the prophecies in the greek scriptures (like peter and johns visions) have very psychedelic attributes. And since rye mold (aka Ergot, aka the active ingredient to make LSD) was found in that area during that time its no surprise as to why. Again not a bad thing just interesting. WELL i mean aside from possible needless deaths caused by the mosaic law but thats just my own issue.

[@CarlolucaS]

@@Blimbus-Blombo People burning something and inhaling the fumes probably lead to a lot of crazy shiz being talked about. Also the heat. I can imagine a lot of stories just being people having a heat stroke in the middle of the desert.

[@rolay7730]

I am high functioning autistic and I honestly like the idea that it is just a part of him. He can be evil and not say things about autistic people with every action. Also Lemon John's heart getting fixed had nothing to do with autism. At the end of that episode I think Fin asks if they are going to fix Lemon Grab's heart like lemon john and PB said "Their is nothing wrong with his heart. He is just like this." Plus let's be honest. He isn't any more evil then PB he just doesn't have the social skills to hide the horrible things he does. Lemon grab- "I will lock up anyone I find UNACCEPTABLE. Life in dungeon. " PB- "Everyone turn around for a special surprise." Proceeds to kill the Rattle Balls. I think she has even tortured people in the show. I know for a fact she talked about doing it to ice king and the earl of nuts.

[@CarlolucaS]

Have you seen my PB video? I think I also mention that he is not worse than PB more than once in the video. My whole point is that I think it was never intended that way and so a lot of implications arise that depending on how you read it lead to very awful conclusions.

[@rolay7730]

@@CarlolucaS I have seen the PB video and I agree. I was just reiterating that point for context. Also I agree it probably wasn't intentional but either way I think you took the dissection of the supposed allegory too far. Every thing has bad implications if you think too hard about it. Zootopia is a clear allegory for discriminated groups. But if you take the allegory too far the movie could be saying those groups are naturally more dangerous. Sure a bunny can go wild, but a tiger is still much more dangerous in the exact same position. I am not saying that is the point Zootopia is trying to make. I am just saying no allegory is perfect. Bad implications will always arise if you take it too far.

[@CarlolucaS]

@@rolay7730 A bit strange that you are telling me that I have to turn my brain on a bit but not too much. Seems to me like a writing problem to me. If the allegory is bad the allegory is bad. Maybe I'll change my mind in the future but for now that is how I see it.

[@rolay7730]

@@CarlolucaS I don't think he is supposed to be an allegory. Honestly it seems like the writers knew someone with enough symptoms that some traits naturally connected while writing his character. But if you examine any real allegory that much they all have terrible implications. I see that as a problem with allegory in general. I have yet to find a allegory in a larger story without this problem.

[@CarlolucaS]

@@rolay7730 Yeah, true. When I think about Ice King for example. They are pretty blunt about all of it. There is less room for interpretation.

[@aTomallic]

As an autistic person let me grab is the most relatable character. Ever. Especially towards the end of the series.

[@CarlolucaS]

Hey, more power to you.

[@thumtak_]

That's not a good thing

[@marseillejoh]

"Unmake me"- ©Lemongrab

[@jarmenedwards2437]

*let me grab😁

[@aleksabanjevic8316]

Finally someone else who does, when I told ppl that hes the most relatable character to me, they were all like wtf. But he really is relatable to me, I also have volume control issues, I don't get along with others but I want to, I'm obsessed with order and rules, the music I like often sound hedious to other ppl, I find my self feeling uncomfortable around things most ppl don't mind, I have a very low emotional intelligence. Over time I learned to control my mannerisms to fit better in to society, but I like to watch lemongrab because he does all the things I wish I could do, like not control my volume constantly and be open about me feelings words the world around me

[@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw]

i bet if carl took off his glasses our universe would collapse into itself.

[@CarlolucaS]

Come on. I am not that powerful... or am I?... No. You never know though. You never know.

[@Hanako-Kun-t9b]

I'm not autistic but I defiantly can relate to some of the traits of autism. Mainly having a hyper fixation for many various things. Jibaku shounen Hanako-kun being one. Adventure Time being another. I love seeing new Adventure Time videos after the show has ended. Also when you started listing off some of the traits that Lemongrab has I couldn't help but think of Reg from made in abyss a bit. He loves repeating the word Irredeemable a lot.

[@CarlolucaS]

As I said people without autism also might have some of the symptoms.

[@Hanako-Kun-t9b]

@@CarlolucaS I like your simon cosplay

[@CarlolucaS]

@@Hanako-Kun-t9b Thx. Glad I had all the materials at hand :)

[@Hanako-Kun-t9b]

@@CarlolucaS your welcome

[@raptorboss6688]

Based Reg

[@SYNNico]

Is it just me or is he dressed like Simon before he turned into the ice king? 😭

[@CarlolucaS]

You've seen my Ice King video?

[@SYNNico]

@@CarlolucaS I haven’t yet but I’ll check it out

[@CarlolucaS]

@@SYNNico Hope you like :) Also you can see the crown in the background in this video :)

[@SYNNico]

@@CarlolucaS I did notice that in the background yes

[@justapleb5023]

Man’s fit is impeccable, as always

[@CarlolucaS]

It's my religion.

[@discowing-c6v]

As an autistic, lemongrab is litterly me. The suffering with empathy, the shrieking, the scene where theres food touching the blanket and he screams he doesnt like it and runs away, the "theres nothing wrong with their heart, they're just like that.", the struggling with identity and questioning why he was made this way, noise issues, wowow. I relate to him so much and i love that eveyone is sfill loved and treated equal in this show, and he evends finds romance in LSP. I get hes evil but like i can gloss over that, hes evil AND autistic, not evil BC hes autistic. Also, PB is liek a fuckin war criminal and i love her too so whatver.

[@CarlolucaS]

Well, I disagree as you can see from the video :)

[@discowing-c6v]

@@CarlolucaS I do agree it would be harmful if he was labeled that and I'm glad it's up to interpret, we already have so much questionable representation! It's easy for uneducated people to blanket statement. For example "but you're nothing like Sheldon from big bang theory" 💀

[@saltyc_man1999]

I diagnosed him with autism long ago. Not only can he not handle change, punishes people who disagree with him, and let his past shape his character, he also seems to stim in the episode "You Made Me". I also don't think it was intended originally, but trust me, my cousin is autistic, my brother is autistic, and my old friend was autistic. Obviously, there's more to him that one simple diagnosis. He's a selfish sociopath. He's also sensitive and was denied what he needed in his early life (acceptance from his mother). But i also think he has autism. (or at least Adventure Time's version of it.)

[@CarlolucaS]

ADT Autism

[@Oaglor]

Might be a cannibal? He outright asks Ice King how he tastes.

[@CarlolucaS]

Different species. Cannibals refers to eating your own species but yes he does ask IK about his taste :)

[@Oaglor]

@@CarlolucaS Fair enough

[@coindog6336]

Yes, he literally ate his brother

[@bestdadoftheyear7181]

@@CarlolucaS he did eat his lemony bro

[@RyanJamesLockstin]

You're always dressed so nice, I feel the urge to buy a suit now.

[@CarlolucaS]

The drip is my religion.

[@gezz5904]

A suit is always a good thing to have - very useful. You show up to an interview in a suit, you’ll get the job. You approach a new partner (in any sense) in a suit, huge chance they’ll stick around. Looking spiffy has its perks.

[@orbboom6119]

Reviewbrah type beat

[@CarlolucaS]

@@orbboom6119 Reviewbrah lowkey the GOAT

[@skyral4137]

There's no reason not to have a suit if you're living life

[@gunterxvoices4101]

He honestly comes off more as having borderline personality disorder.

[@CarlolucaS]

Bi-polar maybe? But 100% abandonment issues.

[@eparigon]

love lemongrab so much hes so autistic and hes so me

[@sand5305]

Lemon grab was the only relatable character to me and I'm just sad that he didn't show up more

[@CarlolucaS]

One of the most memorable characters for sure. I think they didn't figure out how to implement him in the show that well.

[@chaos4654]

On Lemongrab's cannibalistic tendancies. Lemongrab had eaten some of the Mother Gum in Explore the Dungeon Because I Don't Know. Edit: also given Lemongrab turned his kingdom into a take on North Korea, him getting fat is a reference to Kim.

[@CarlolucaS]

Oh, I never made that connection. I thought him getting fat was just how monarchs are generally depicted.

[@lewilbur]

Such a great video!! I loved all your edits and cuts to different angles! So engaging! And I absolutely love character analysis videos! That's interesting to think about with Lemongrab but I think you are right. And I also think they were trying to write something deep with him later on and it just comes across weird. To me it feels like Adventure Time is made up of two different shows (in the way of storytelling, that is). They started out making a fun, silly, and kinda psychedelic show and then down the road, decided they wanted to make a deep story and it just comes across as weird and/or awkward for characters and their "growth" a lot of the time. At least for me. Love watching your takes! You are so passionate about Adventure Time. It is very engaging!

[@CarlolucaS]

Someone explained it like this: Season 1 to 5 is Adventure Time Dungeons and Dragons. Season 6 to 10 is Adventure Time Warhammer 40k. The first few seasons are much lighter in tone and become much darker down the line. I think the best execution of having "hidden" traits is probably Ice King.

[@lewilbur]

@@CarlolucaS omg I LOVE that comparison!

[@pandachan3127]

If I were to correlate lemon grab to autism from my perspective, I would say his earlier days were similar to when I was a kid. I didn’t know how to socialize with other kids and I could only understand only my own ways, very similar to lemon grab. But when he was reborn from both lemon grey and lemon white he is more like when I grew up when I started to understand those around me. This is coming from someone who went under the radar and did not get the support as needed in the earlier years. So I think lemon grab is a pretty good representation of undiagnosed autism that gets untreated. Also them having a meltdown after a small dispute is relatable lol. I mean not anymore but was relatable. But ur right they aren’t a good rep for autism for ALL autists :) but they’re relatable to those like me and some others :D

[@CarlolucaS]

I've heard similar stuff that people can relate. There is also a good comment from Blue who helped me make this video.

[@Wooch1x]

In the beginning montage, how did you NOT include when he ate the food out of somebody’s mouth

[@CarlolucaS]

Ah, that shiz grosses me out. I didn't even mention it. I am a stickler for that kinda thing.

[@Wooch1x]

@@CarlolucaS I’ve been rewatching, I get it

[@snowman21279]

somebody? SOMEBODY?!!! That SOMEBODY was a dead rat

[@Wooch1x]

@@snowman21279 I didn’t remember exactly what it was, the image just stuck in my head of him eating it

[@craz2580]

Tbh, i feel like lemongrab is just fricking crazy

[@CarlolucaS]

Don't know a lot of people do a bunch of fucked shit in Ooo.

[@jaderoze9156]

Hole up I am currently in the process of getting an official diagnosis for autism and I have always related to lemongrab

[@CarlolucaS]

Lemongrab is sometimes a relatable character. Nobody really understands him or tries to. He is neglected by his parents. And it seems like he is always a bit lost.

[@samsecondchannel76]

I think lemongrab is a representation of the neurotypical understanding of autism.

[@CarlolucaS]

You know what? That's the best description I've heard so far.

[@ariariari8524]

I don’t think lemongrab was intended to be autistic but as an autistic person I definitely see how he’s autistic coded

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah, I mean at the end even an apple can look like a pear.

[@3hmA1p4c4]

I think Banana Man is probably my fave character with autistic traits 😩

[@CarlolucaS]

Banana Man. Yeah, I would need to look into it but I can vaguely remember that.

[@3hmA1p4c4]

@@CarlolucaS def do! He's one of my less talked about faves for sure 🥹

[@rangopistacho6928]

as an autistic person I still found it strange how this person had zero empathy. not every autistic person is exactly the same per say, a lot of us tend to be very diffrent on the whole spectrum, I myself find myself often way over empathetic towards people in which I am overly worried that im doing something wrong or that they are not doing well, ive learned to control this behavior over the years but I used to hyperfixate on a lot of certain issues, I still hyperfixate on things, it can be a good thing especially if you weaponize it in the case of studying and getting a carrer you would be suprised how much you get done when you fixate on it, but at the same time its a curse. idk its really hard for me to explain autism sometimes to people, autistic people are not evil or dumb or completely insane, we are just wired diffrently, where some peoples brainwaves are wired to process things in a normal way, most autistic people and not saying all of us tend to often be wired diffrently in which we process and deal with things in a much diffrent way because our brains send signals around in a diffrent manner either way tho ive always rather enjoyed lemongrab, hes such a weird and strange dude and you dont often have characters that are just borderline unusual represented in shows

[@CarlolucaS]

Lemongrab is a weird dude :)

[@mavioli3303]

that thumbnail is crazy

[@CarlolucaS]

That is the point.

[@mavioli3303]

@@CarlolucaS *autistic*

[@CarlolucaS]

lol

[@DanZeal]

I’m sad there was no singing in this one 😢 Awesome video btw! I need more! 😤

[@CarlolucaS]

Singing in the Marceline video and that's a promise.

[@Yipper64]

8:50 Hmm I think I know how pizza tower Pillar John got his name.

[@CarlolucaS]

Pilla John is a good name.

[@m1nxy.mp4]

personally i'm a big lemongrab aspd believer but i can totally see it! low empathy in autism, while a sterotype, does genuinely effect so many austistic ppl out there and it's nice to recognize it

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah, that would make a bit more sense but there are still other things going on.

[@tcwtfln_yt]

LEMON NORTH KOREA?!?!?!?

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

Lemkim junbubble ungum

[@CarlolucaS]

Lemon Zulu

[@josephscriven5454]

Good video! I always found lemongrab to be a captivatingly strange character.

[@CarlolucaS]

Very underused.

[@silvanalucas6403]

How do you go from self harm to cannibalism? 14:43

[@CarlolucaS]

Metaphorical vs. Physical.

[@silvanalucas6403]

@@CarlolucaS I feel like lemongrab acts like his brain was put in the microwave for a little bit too long.

[@CarlolucaS]

@@silvanalucas6403 He is by PB's words a "failed experiment" so not really surprising :)

[@silvanalucas6403]

@@CarlolucaS an interesting thing to note that he was completely unsympathetic until lemongrass got combined with lemon White.

[@reitheboi2031]

Good vid my lad

[@CarlolucaS]

Thanks. I am happy to serve.

[@MrIrdatlan]

Funny how LEMONFAT still had a squeeky voice despite being so fat.

[@CarlolucaS]

It is in his magical DNA

[@MrIrdatlan]

@@CarlolucaS its in the "Recipe"

[@isaaccordova2643]

Why wasn't this posted when I had a psychology paper on cartoon characters! I didn't even think of lemongrab!

[@CarlolucaS]

lol I mean I didn't see it myself until a bunch of people told me this which prompted me to analyze the whole thing.

[@isaaccordova2643]

@@CarlolucaS it's a great analysation too, I'm glad you pointed out how most of lemongrabs actions are negative and that's probably why he isn't autistic. In my opinion I don't believe that they would want to show autism in that way, and it is merely coincidence that he has similar responses.

[@kingcharlesFrench]

Im autistic and i didnt even know the hand biting thing is a symptom

[@CarlolucaS]

Not all autistic people are the same. Some have a quirk like having to touch something every time they walk somewhere. It might manifest in everyone differently. Though it doesn't mean that neurotypical people don't have similar quirks. It all depends on frequency and weight.

[@kingcharlesFrench]

@Carl Lucas it's an interesting subject, I hand-bite sometimes. I thought it was just an anxiety thing, but maybe that plays a part in the matter

[@danemr6808]

I think Lemongrab is a good representation of severe Autism. The media often sanitizes Autism and makes it seem like some quirky thing that just makes people a bit weird. Indeed mildly Autistic people can generally live normal lives, but as you said, Autism is a spectrum and severe Autism isn't like that at all. Many of the ones I've met are effectively toddlers, unable to communicate properly, needing constant care, and being unable to function in society. It is a mental illness that can't be waved away as quirky and does need to be attended to and, if it were possible, fixed. Lemongrab is a childish representation, because Adventure Time is a children's show, but there's an episode of House M.D. that perfectly represents the struggles faced by severely autistic children and their parents, it's called "Lines in the Sand".

[@CarlolucaS]

If they leaned more into the spectrum instead of constantly wavering inside of the spectrum it could have been a good depiction of a severe case of autism. Maybe remove the cannibalism. It will always be difficult to be able to represent it but I don't think it was ever intended as I said in the video.

[@danemr6808]

@@CarlolucaS "remove the cannibalism " is generally good advice in everything lol. And yeah, I agree that the inconsistency hurt the message but in a way those fluctuations are also a part of autism and other mental illnesses. Some days are better and some days are worse, and I'm sure the magic shenanigans and alien biology dont help make it more predictable.

[@CarlolucaS]

@@danemr6808 lol yeah. I think magic definetly doesn't help :)

[@thatboringone7851]

Autism isn't a mental illness, it's neurodevelopmental disorder. Also, "severity" (ie talking about autism as mild or severe like a linear scale) is not an accurate way to talk about autism or support needs and it is often used/applied in ways that hurt all autistic people, such as assuming a person who can mask well has no significant support needs or that a person who is nonverbal can't understand you/the world around them or communicate at all.

[@danemr6808]

@@thatboringone7851 Do you know about Triage? In a hospital the goal is for everyone to be treated, however if there is ever an influx of people who can't all be treated at the same time, then they are prioritized based on need and severity of the injury. That isn't to say that someone with a broken wrist isn't hurt or in need of treatment, but if the doctors have to choose who goes first between them and someone with severe blood loss, then they'll go with the latter. All autism needs certain ways of treatment and/or support, but to pretend that that level is the same for all autistic people is disingenuous. A non-verbal person might understand the world just as well as a verbal person, but it's silly to say that they don't need a different and greater level of care than a person who can tell someone what they need. Yes, mental illness is not the correct term. I'm sorry for that. But the fact that it is a developmental disorder strengthens the idea that it can be more or less severe. It doesn't need to move on a straight line scale to have different and distinct levels of need. While I agree that Autism tends to be stigmatized, I think it is because most people underestimate the effects of severity rather than the other way around. Nuance is all well and good, but most people don't deal well with it. If you tell people that all Autistic people are equal then they'll underestimate the needs of the severely autistic and overestimate the needs of the mildly autistic. If you tell them every case is different then the word loses all meaning and they'll revert to even less nuanced wording, like "quirky" or the "R" word.

[@luxblitzar]

goliad I very liked Lemongrab - still was .... center of disturbing scenes and episodes - but still felt inexplicably magnetism towards. I like idea of it - neglected autist lemon. I rework his story. Little awkward strings together with a bit more tact, less cannibalism. Even if never changes the reality of the show, neurotypical view of neurodivergent one. Personally am one that while appearing functional am not as "high function" as others many others. Violence towards the self, urge to screech at others, speech loss episodes, motor issues, so on. Though minor. It pleasant isn't. Yet I find my lemon-way through the world. I like the view of Lemongrab [with tweaks, like how love LSP with erase of Breezy implications - and I would rant to you it is out of character for her if you consider her dialogue of Brad - though I only know the Spanish dub] Autism gets representation lately and is good. But Autism not always "little quirky, dislikes noise, probably genius ::3". And should be known. And should be respected. Also love Goliad too. Yes yes and thank you.

[@luxblitzar]

Your point is true. [video man] however too attached i turned to lemongrab that i take this story to nurse back to health. It was not written with spectrum in mind, or not mindful enough - it is said an aspect of lemongrab - photographic memory - was based on an autistic person's. Too attached though i see lightly Lemonmix's kingdom, comedically. Too attached that must write justice to him lemongrab.

[@CarlolucaS]

I think the execution could have been better for sure if it was intended which I still doubt.

[@luxblitzar]

@@CarlolucaS Yes does not seem intended

[@Justin-Hill-1987]

Prince Bubblegum tried to make "lemonade out of lemons," but failed...and when Princess Bubblegum was transformed into a teenage girl following her near-death experience (which involved being accidentally dropped into the Lich's toxic well by the Ice King, a possession by the Lich and being broken up into a million pieces after being frozen by the Ice King and knocked down by Finn). The Earl of Lemongrab took on the leadership role of the Candy Kingdom when Princess Bubblegum's age regression created a repercussion due to the fact that she had recovered but her doctors did not have enough of her candy biomass to make her look like an adult woman. The result of Bonnibel's life-saving operation was that she was transformed into a barefoot teenage girl princess with short shoulder-length hair that makes her gumball-shaped head look more pronounced in many of her side profile shots throughout the end of the episode "Mortal Recoil" as well as the majority of the episode "Too Young." It also had an effect on her fashion sense, since she wore a pretty dark pink and purple v-neck ball gown with a purple sash tied off into a fancy bow on the back in addition to her gold circlet crown with the blue gem in the pinnacle that she still wears in her hair in her young form. Things get sweet and sour between both Princess Bubblegum and Lemongrab, When she pulls a series of pranks with her friend, Finn, to try and make Lemongrab leave the Candy Castle. They wind up getting jailed with the rest of the Candy People, which is where the forced sacrifice of Princess Bubblegum's youth comes into play, so that she could rule the Candy Kingdom as her old self again with Lemongrab kicked out...

[@CarlolucaS]

It's been almost a year and I still don't quite get it.

[@RansburgMakesArt]

Lemon Jon and the Eastside Boys

[@CarlolucaS]

Lemon J. The GOAT

[@t_hrsdayy]

What are your thoughts about neddie?

[@CarlolucaS]

Uff. So... Neddie I would say is definitely on the spectrum. I would need to look into it though.

[@skyral4137]

Neddie is basically the people in the NEET subreddit, Virgin, Lonely, Autistic 40 yr old men who still live with their parents and hates society.

[@auburneytuckerson2959]

​@@CarlolucaS I relate to Neddy.

[@DobbyBogg]

Good vid Carl

[@CarlolucaS]

Thx. That's all I can hope for.

[@YurtFerguson]

Edit: Though the final verdict on it isn't fully out. In what's truth or fiction on his whole situation I'll still say he's a very iconic voice actor: While support for Justin roiland has soured (for obvious reasons) I still don't think there's anyone else who could have really brought lemongrabs voice to life in such a bombastic way.

[@CarlolucaS]

Obviously, he shouldn't get other jobs but yeah. I think the delivery is pretty iconic.

[@theholybox4690]

How is just as prewar ice king

[@CarlolucaS]

Hopefully the war never comes :)

[@eiknarfp6391]

Special interests are a thing in autism that more closely represents what you described at 6:38

[@eiknarfp6391]

Also I have autism

[@CarlolucaS]

Brotism /j

[@Justin-Hill-1987]

I most certainly fall on a higher-functioning part of the autism spectrum...my father also found out that he was on the same part of that spectrum as I sometime after he was 50...

[@CarlolucaS]

A lot of autists can just pass for the majority of their lives especially if they have a very safe home and understanding parents.

[@lightupthedark51100]

I can’t stop staring at the reflection in the glasses

[@CarlolucaS]

Good :)

[@shamicagray4014]

WOWSERS, I THOUGHT THAT ABOUT HIM TOO

[@CarlolucaS]

Quite a few people make the connection.

[@crestofscribbles8761]

I kind of interpret Lemongrab as autistic + AT craziness. His violent side isn't the autism, it's the repetitive fixations, need for structure, and difficulty understanding people that I view as his real self. The more narcissistic and violent side I wholeheartedly blame on PB and her definitely intentional abuse. Also, just to point out; all candy people are cannibalistic. At the end of S1, Ep1 the candy people eat the guts of their undead counterparts and they make food from the same stuff they're made of. The fact that Lemongrab was pretty hype about the idea of eating Ice King's dead body (in Myster Dungeon) is much creepier. I personally think PB pretty much left him to starve until she allegedly gave the two Lemons food after Lemonwhite is made. Allegedly. I think he's been scavenging the whole time up until then and that's what makes him so quick to kill. It's not a reflection of anything innate in him (unlike his obsessive traits) so much as a learned survival tactic given to him graciously by his equally narcissistic and psychopathic "mother". I find him overall super relatable, but only if you don't take the insanity of his arc too seriously. It is AT, after all. If there's any intentional representation in any of the characters, it's always with the very important note that this show is NUTS.

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah, kinda. I just think a lot of things that are intended you can often recognize. Like for example IK having dementia.

[@crestofscribbles8761]

@@CarlolucaS something like autism and other symptoms on this spectrum are kinda better not being dramatized in an overt way though since that’s the assumption and stigma people have. If they came out and made that the center of the character we’d probably be looking at a character made helpless by the misunderstanding of the spectrum. Instead, his autistic aspects are very able to cope, he’s independent, and that’s his more likable side. It’s the sociopathic behavior he gets into trouble for. 😂

[@bean751-n2y]

Maybe he means "These lemonjons are lemon matter".

[@CarlolucaS]

Maybe?

[@Kaare-The-Heathen]

I think that the scenes with Mathew, the lemonjons were "him" metaphorically. Lemongrey is a mix of Lemonwhite and Lemongrab, so he has Lemonwhite's empathy as well as Lemongrab's orderly resolve. He knows he won't be perfect. Mathew considers himself "perfect", while the Lemonjons represent imperfection, which is why they destroy Mathew. (I call the one that ate Lemonwhite "Lemongrab", and the one that kills Mathew "Lemongrey" because he's a mix of Lemongrab - who wears something similar to black - and Lemonwhite, and is therefore grey.)

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah, I didn't quite follow but it is very ambiguous :)

[@leand.monster9470]

Bro really said Lemon North Korea 💀

[@CarlolucaS]

Well, am I wrong though?

[@enhlematsombe6230]

Lemon grab used to scare me as a child

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah, he is kinda scary.

[@Mechanicalmayhem-mg5hw]

Autistic? he really is just like me

[@CarlolucaS]

fr fr

[@seekerlemm875]

7:06 Not me getting called out 💀

[@CarlolucaS]

Was thinking about you when I wrote that line.

[@frozenbaguette]

Do you have a KOFI or something for 1 time donations?

[@CarlolucaS]

No, should I make one?

[@CarlolucaS]

Okay, I set it up. It's on the banner.

[@foxliasgriffinYT]

i think he could be neurodivergent but it's not rlly perfect to us because, he's a completely diff species made scientifically and it is possible he could habe more than one disorder but then again idk

[@CarlolucaS]

Sure. Could be an assortment of things.

[@fatimahanwaar306]

I hate how they exaggerated his hatred for certain types of music

[@cynder6596]

"Omg hes so relatabl-" *eats his clone* "oh.. well... okay.."

[@CarlolucaS]

lol

[@mathieuleader8601]

Lemongrab is a citrus themed Frankenstein

[@CarlolucaS]

I am not sure but it sounds about right.

[@BlackxMajic]

Been waiting for this, the Adventure Time vids go hard

[@CarlolucaS]

Marceline next probably.

[@BlackxMajic]

YES PLEASE

[@CarlolucaS]

@@BlackxMajic ... but I'll experiment with one other video before that. Though it will be in a similar vain as the character spotlight videos. That's what I am calling them now. Character Spotlights.

[@BlackxMajic]

Looking forward to it, keep up the amazing work dude

[@deezlastnane5412]

FINALLY SOMEONE GETS THE NEURODIVERSITY METAPHOR OF LEMOMGRAS

[@CarlolucaS]

Talk about this with a friend and we were talking how sick it could have been if in the specials they would have broken up again.

[@ShojoBakunyu]

Biting your own hand is an Autism stim? Well shit..... I literally have teeth marks on my wrist as I type this and I've been anxious all day so I catch myself biting my finger.

[@CarlolucaS]

lol I can imagine it doesn't feel that great. Hopefully the people around you understand.

[@kitgundy8963]

I am autistic and though i REALLY HOPE he wasn’t made to be autistic bc that would just be kinda gross, I can relate to Lemongrab in a lot of ways. It’s not the things he does that make him relatable for me, it’s the way he seems to process things, the lens he views the world through. Idk it’s weird to explain but he’s an interesting character to me because there’s a lot of him that I can recognize, and he almost reminds me of how I was when I was an angry middle schooler who was tired of getting treated like shit by everyone around me if that makes sense. HOWEVER the bad stuff he did was NOT autism stuff that was his own decisions and Yikes.

[@CarlolucaS]

Yikes indeed.

[@connorallen1683]

lemongrab is an excellent representation of how (neurotypical people that don't actually know about autism) think autistic people behave.

[@CarlolucaS]

That's probably it :)

[@anon10133]

autism is a spectrum, i seen a lot of people relate to some lemongrabs behaviour so i think it dependsd

[@flamingmonkeyheads]

ive been so excited for this one!!! love the bolo!!!!!

[@CarlolucaS]

Is bolo like ligma?

[@jcam.hart8]

This Castle is in UNACCEPTABLE CONDITIONS! UNACCEPTABLE! REEEEEEE

[@CarlolucaS]

acceptable

[@bestdadoftheyear7181]

Pb could have just made another white lemongrab to rule the lemon kingdom, but noOoOo...

[@CarlolucaS]

That would be too easy of an solution.

[@Amir711.]

Good Video dude

[@CarlolucaS]

Thx mate. Hope to keep it up.

[@zegamingcuber857]

Unless I actually have both adhd and autism, I'm pretty sure autism can also cause hyperfixations

[@CarlolucaS]

As far as the research lead me, both Autism and ADHD/ADD can cause hyperfixation. Also, ADHD/ADD often appears alongside Autism.

[@ChisomagaIhezie]

I always saw Lemongrab as more of a repsertantation of OCD, as I can't really see autistic traits in Lemongrab as he has displayed obssesive compulsive traits.

[@CarlolucaS]

You can project pretty much anything on him since there seems to be a lot of different traits.

[@imalltheragex2000]

0:14 off the bat, I wouldn't say Lemongrab is autistic, I've met autistic people (I'm a high functioning autistic myself), and sure some comparison can be made, but I feel Lemongrab is more of his own thing 2:02 and this sentiment seems to be shared... Hm... Should I just delete this comment then... Naaaah comments are good for the algorithm

[@CarlolucaS]

Comments. Good. Now Give Money :)

[@imalltheragex2000]

@@CarlolucaS me now have money so have more comment

[@AnthonyDaFox]

I think less autistic and more Psychotic when i think of Lemongrad

[@CarlolucaS]

I clearly disagree with the autistic diagnosis.

[@Nunally100]

Ok but what if you view it as an autistic person with bpd. The whole lemon grab arc centers around the trauma pb caused and then lemon white represents what lemongrab could have been without that trauma. I saw a whole video that talks about the lemon people and their relationship with trauma. Trauma leads to people being being more selfish and hating others but through work you can start to feel more empathetic and with empathy leads to self sacrifice in a very detrimental way like with Jon.

[@CarlolucaS]

Hm, that sounds closer to it. Though I am still not sure about the whole cannibalism.

[@bestdadoftheyear7181]

lemon grab is annoyingly disturbing sometimes, But is likable...oddly enough.

[@CarlolucaS]

I like him a lot. There really not many character I dislike in the show.

[@babytime1]

that title really grabbed me

[@CarlolucaS]

Let's goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Was unsure about it but at least someone likes it :)

[@petertrypsteen]

@@CarlolucaS Yeah sure, someone likes it, doesn't mean much on the internet. Aren't you worried that the oppressive and other horrible traits of Lemongrab will be associated with and projected upon neurodiverse people? (people on the autism spectrum / with autism)

[@CarlolucaS]

@@petertrypsteen That is why I literally argue against it in the video. Not to say that there aren't bad people with disorders.

[@nerdcuddles7731]

I would say he is more than just autistic tbh, he defiantly has OCPD and he maybe has ADHD, Defiantly ASPD instead of being Autistic though because he just doesn't seem to have a conscious. Like his behavior is so exaggerated for him to just be autistic and there are things missing to categorize him as autistic, Bubblegum's "oh they're just like this" statment still applies to ASPD, OCPD, and ADHD; I only say ADHD though because he is hyperactive and his hyperfixation on creating candy life (But the self neglect was OCPD influenced), his personality disorders have to do with the rest of the way he acts.

[@CarlolucaS]

There seems to be a cocktail of problems with him. Yes.

[@ammonite3275]

I always hated lemon grab because he reminded me of my worst parts taken to the extreme but like beyond extreme. Basically this character made me hate him so much and hate those parts of me all the more. Edit: uh the cannibalism was not a part I felt connected to just disgusted by.

[@CarlolucaS]

I don't think I hate any character in the show to be honest. They are all kinda fucked in their own way.

[@lunar_ecl1ps]

As an autistic person, I personally have a loose headcanon that lemongrab IS on the spectrum. HOWEVER I see the problem, too, with genuinely thinking he is intended to be and canonically is autistic representation. The implications of that would be REALLY problematic, and would honestly make me PERSONALLY a little uncomfortable because of the implications that might come along with that 😭I think especially if non-autistic (allistic) people are interpreting him this way, it would definitely be hurtful to the autistic community. But I think that autistics themselves seeing parts of themselves in lemongrab, and having their own headcanons associated with him, isnt all that bad. That's something pretty common in the community-taking a character who has some autistic traits and relating to them on a personal level, while acknowledging that they arent real, or good representation intended by the creator of that character. Overall, this is a really good video tho! It really covers *why* lemongrab, though he may be embraced by actual autistic people, is NOT good representation of what autism is, and especially shouldn't be where non-autistic/allistic people get their idea of autism.

[@CarlolucaS]

Someone had the idea of having 3 people representing autism so you could show the diversity, challenges and choices that happen when you are autistic.

[@silvanalucas6403]

Loman grab needed help that's PBs fault . Still not as bad as LSP 20:07

[@CarlolucaS]

LSP is always not that great :) but is treated as a bad person by the show as well.

[@silvanalucas6403]

@@CarlolucaS she forced herself on Finn

[@Larrymatrix21]

😒🫳5.5/10

[@CarlolucaS]

10/10 like comment.

[@jalextheinktoon]

I’m autistic, and I do like Lemongrab as a character, but if he is meant to be autistic, then OH MY GOD that is awful representation! 😨 I really hope Lemongrab isn’t supposed to be an autistic stereotype. Also, I don’t really see autism as a spectrum, or one size fits all, I believe that every autistic individual is different and has a mishmash of many different traits in their own way. 😁

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah, blue basically suggest to have several characters to show a bigger spectrum of autism.

[@kaialone]

I think iirc Lemongrab wasn't designed to be autistic, but resonated with a lotta autistic folks, so a couple of the writers leaned into that idea more. Personally, I like him as an autistic-leaning character (its a vast spectrum after all), where it's kinda like, most of his actually really bad traits are result of neglect, and his just "weird" habits aren't bad at all. Like especially the contrast of Lemongrab 1 and 2, with 1 having lived neglected and mocked all his life, while 2 was never alone like that. Lemonhope is another factor into this, cause he too is a "lemon/sour" (which can be seen as one stand-in for being autistic if you read the characters as such) and a huge part of his deal was not taking crap from people who aren't treating him as he wants to be (but also learn that he can't cut himself off society entirely) The Mountain is also kinda about Lemongrab 3 learning to accept himself as he is, even if he can tell that he's off-putting to many people All in all the "lemons" are prolly not ideal "representation" of autistic folks, but to me I think it's neat that they end up sending the message that its okay to be odd and sour, and you shouldn't be treated as less for it? At least thats how I felt

[@Djwunmoshen]

Lemongrab is a Introvert that’s awkward…

[@CarlolucaS]

And a ruthless monarch :)

[@Knight_fury47]

Carl: makes a great video Lemon grab: unexcitab.. oh I mean EXECUTABLLLLLLLE Nevermind I hate everything UNEXCEPTIONABLLLLLLLEE!🙃

[@CarlolucaS]

lol

[@MrIrdatlan]

Im autistic, cant relate. I am super high function tho so prob thats why. Im sadly stopped from living my life as normal by everyone else and im having to wrestle control of my own life out of my own mothers hands little by little

[@CarlolucaS]

I wish you the best of luck. Hope you can manage to reach your goal. I had the extreme luck of being raised by a good family.

[@MrIrdatlan]

@@CarlolucaS i mean my family is great, but my mom just cant let me have enough control in my life to even feel like an adult. I cant even go out as freely as i did when i was 10. Im slowly getting back the things i need because otherwise the only path left is lonelyness and depression. Im making progress so no need to feel bad for me. Thanks for wishing luck.

[@thaismenezes7279]

Lemongrab is autistic, lacks empaty, and have abandonment issues. Lemonwhite is autistic and have empaty with no abandonment issues. When lemongrab explodes cuz of lemonhope's harp and pb makes a new lemongrab with half of each thats a third lemongrab, a lemongrab that has autism and learned a little with the other lemongrabs experience and turn a little more social. Lemongrab really wants to somewhat fit in socially and interact with ppl, lemonhope is self suficient and don't need to interact with ppl to feel happy. He feel obligation and guilt of lemon ppl's future but he really don't want to be bothered by this feeling, so he helped them just to feel free of obligation.

[@CarlolucaS]

I mean you can have whatever headcanon you want. There is enough room to see him as that.

[@thaismenezes7279]

​@@CarlolucaS Yeah, just interpretations

[@clarkem.5269]

I’m autistic and personally I detest the “Lemongrab is autistic” theory. He is a sociopathic narcissist who wants to be the center of the world and abuses every living being he has any power over. It’s fine for autistic characters to be imperfect, but Lemongrab is basically ableists’ idea of autistic people that we are these cruel, self-centered people who see others as objects and have no empathy. I can see the autistic idea with him not understanding jokes and adhering strictly to rules but it’s so over the top that it doesn’t feel like a genuine autistic character just that that happens to be part of his caricature of dictatorship.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

I think Lemongrab could work as a representation for autism when you consider his life. How he got zero support from PB and was basically sent into exile. As I am sure you know. support and an understanding of ones' own condition are vital for Autistics. Things Lemongrab never got. He was treated as a freak and was never made to understand the way he was. Until the very end of the series at least.

[@CarlolucaS]

It's definitely a strange depiction if it is supposed to be one which I don't think it is.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@CarlolucaS Considering when Lemongrab's character was conceived (pre 2011, so over a decade ago when autism was less well understood) and what his upbringing was (he basically didn't have one, he's pretty much feral), I think it works. A proper upbringing and care with dealing with ones' autism is crucial to their growth and development. Lemongrab was neglected by PB his entire life and given no help in coping with his very clear mental illness. This especially holds up with how Adventure Time isn't afraid to tackle trauma and stressful relationships. Lemongrab is clearly traumatised by how he was created and how PB abandoned him. He blames her for the way he is and how she failed him as a mother.

[@nicolaridolfi6510]

Yes, I think Lemongrab is a great character. How did you understood this?

[@CarlolucaS]

Probably top 5 characters in the show for sure. As I said I made the PB video a while ago and I got a few comments about Lemongrab being autistic. I asked in the subreddit and saw it a few times there as well... Well, I also got banned from the subreddit :) It was my own fault though cause I am incredibly impolite. Anyways I dove into the show again with the majority of the Lemongrab episodes and tried to figure out why people think Lemongrab is autistic. That's basically it.

[@timburtonprajit]

this video is great but my first thought is that you look like simon 😭😭

[@CarlolucaS]

Who is Simon?

[@xlro8f853]

Are you trying to look like Simon?

[@CarlolucaS]

Gunther... No?!?

[@shyboy-kr1fb]

Unacceptable

[@CarlolucaS]

acceptable...

[@ovocov]

He’s not autistic bro

[@CarlolucaS]

Yeah, that's what I say in the video.

[@konstantinkoverchenko9587]

Seems better than the recent Napoleon flick. 🍋_🍋

[@CarlolucaS]

Napolean.

[@merbst]

❤ Lemongrab I live near Justin Roiland, and I hope he accepts my barbeque invitation to make things real Sour! Hyperfixation is a symptom of Autism as well as ADHD.

[@CarlolucaS]

There is a lot of overlap between those two. Yeah.

[@TJ-Judge]

I love lemongrab

[@CarlolucaS]

Hell yea brother

[@anthonymarquis-ei7cf]

What if the entire general kingdom of Lemongrab itself is the representation of autism, and in this instance Lemongrab is indirectly a character of autism. Lemongrab grey(actual Lemongrab) = the autistic character while LemonWhite is the non exertive passive side of Lemongrab.Then the post Lemon Hope saga kingdom in its many interlinked contraptions to people's role relationship in your clips (16:09 - 16:12) is the given possible complexity of Lemongrabs autistic mind and autism itself as a disability.Lemon Hope = not wanting to always be in the drama of external happening like depicted with the Lemongrab/LemonWhite fight that Lemongrab desired to undo like you said (17:12 - 17:28)and the emotionlessness that can be detected from people with autism.While Lemon-Mix is the instance of someone with autism that has learned to live without letting their disability dictate or ruin their life because they have the disability. I'm autistic myself and if this is the case of proof the entirety of the kingdom namely and therefore indirectly Lemongrab is represents autism then I would find him very relatable as such.I myself is non exertively passive like possibly LemonWhite, not one for drama & emotionless on the surface similar to Lemon Hope, I also don't let the disability get me down and dictate my life such as Lemon-Mix. So if the kingdom as a whole is the representation not solely the one character(Lemongrab) then very much relatable. At least for me anyways.Also I love your Adventure Time character analysis videos.

[@CarlolucaS]

I actually love this interpretation. Not quite sure if I agree since it would be going more in the direction of DID but I really like this version of the story as well. Could even expand some of things Lemongrab does with things like "intrusive thoughts" It's in interesting idea. You should present that case in the subreddit. They might like it.

[@lerfarts]

@@CarlolucaS DID would be better represented by a single character- maybe even someone like Golb to be honest. Though I can’t think of a good DID proxy in Adventure Time overall. I think all the lemon people representing autism works as metaphor in terms of them all being people that share a specific quality: being made of lemons. Lemon = autism. Also, intrusive thoughts are more of an OCD thing! You might be thinking of *impulsive* thoughts, which are commonly found in things like ADHD. Intrusive Thoughts: thoughts and feelings that do not align with your personal or moral views that make you feel mortified with yourself for thinking of them. You don’t want to think these things and you don’t have control over them popping in your mind. This is stuff like “I accidentally looked at part of someone’s body I shouldn’t have does this mean I’m subconsciously a creep?” or “What if I ran that person on the side walk over? I could do it. Why would I think that? Am I a psychopath???” Impulsive Thoughts: The strong urge to do something in the moment, usually something you shouldn’t do, and something you might actually follow through (in contrast to intrusive thoughts which are usually something you would never in a million years act upon). This is stuff like “I’m gonna go on a spontaneous roadtrip” or “I should binge all 500 episodes of this TV show instead of working” or “I’m gonna lick this thing I shouldn’t like because I wonder what it tastes like.”

[@Supreme_King23]

UNACCEPTABLEEEEEE !

[@GenercT]

I got notified :)

[@CarlolucaS]

Nice... :)

[@mann_mans]

Well it’s kinda weird with the whole eating each other thing because we’re made of meat and eat meat but it’s not cannibalism. Man, Adventure Time is really weird sometimes and all of the weirdness just went over my head when I was a kid.

[@CarlolucaS]

Cannibalism refers to eating your own species. Not necessarily meat. It makes sense for candy people to eat candy but it would be weird if they started eating each other.