Let me make you an AoM Retold farm expert

#ageofmythology #aom #gaming #meme #retold #aomretold
My twitch:
/ automatongg
My discord:
/ discord

[@AutomatonAoM]

My twitch: www.twitch.tv/automatongg My discord: discord.gg/kPjh39KrGs The discord is rather new, therefore i will gradually put good stuff. Join to not miss out! :P

[@MrDoreius]

My opinion? Give me the old ingame building menu back, and remake the short movie intro so the game is finally complete and i can buy it

[@Bounasieaux]

this guy watched a Spirit of the Law video and asked himself, yes but what if I did that on coke?

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

This is so much better than any SotL video :D

[@Rocket1331]

This is why i play atlantean

[@exanimato6586]

I scroll down looking specifically for this type of comment. Atlanteans just forget about all those silly numbers.

[@cloudshifter]

True but they have a lot weaker units in general. Greeks and Norse usually mop the floor with them and Egyptians go on par.

[@nerath639]

@@cloudshifter Hades and Zeus are literally in the lowest gods in regard to winning rates. The only shitty atlantian right now is oranos Gaia and Kronos are midtier Norse are the strongest right now Seth is the worst of all

[@pharaohthutmosis7803]

this is just the autism i needed at 2 AM in the middle of the night, excellent

[@deknof3396]

bro would have lost his mind if saw my tripple layered frams in my last game

[@AutomatonAoM]

3 layers? rookie numbers

[@markjerue9734]

BTW, here's ten strategies I'll throw at you to analyze in pro play later: 1) As Mythic Age Greeks, use your colossus units to attack enemy gold mines. And I mean literally attack the gold mines; get the colossi's HP down & have it eat their gold mine! Colossi get 1 HP per 1 gold (or wood) consumed. If you had a colossus stand parked next to their gold, they can't actually kill it because you'll regenerate way faster than they can kill it - I'm talking over 100HP per second healed akin to a titan in the campaign. I'm surprised nobody has used Underworld Passage to teleport a colossus onto the enemy's gold and just eat their gold. 2) Use Gaia Forest to act as a nigh-invincible wall on certain maps with chokepoints. Unless you're Norse & have Forest Fire or are Egypt & have rocs or are Greeks & have colossi, trees are a formidable foe. Once you place down a couple clumps of trees, you can leave 1 gap open to close once you decide to go full eco - say, close it up & then get your Titan & Wonder going? 3) Use Greek Apollo temples to heal naval units. They're obscenely tanky. 4) As Kronos, use fishing boats on the offensive - timeshift a dock next to your enemy's dock or at the naval front line while simultaneously sending fishing boats there. Garrison the dock. Fully garrisoned docks do more DPS than citadels. 5) As Isis, have a forward placed monument to villagers at 99% build completion. Use a God power in the epic early to mid game battle & then finish the monument immediately afterwards so your opponent can't counter with their own. 6) As Egypt, Use Shifting Sands or rocs on Oasis to deploy laser crocodiles & catapults in between the trees & oasis. Given their range nobody can hit them back except catapults. Send them with a priest in case a stray arrow hits them. 7) As Heroic Age Egypt, use Ancestors in the water to get 13 okay arrow ships that can maybe ferry troops around & soak up damage. 8) As anyone on a map with a fordable river crossing, block the crossing with massive naval units like Leviathans. 9) As anyone, rotate barracks-type buildings to act as a more space efficient wall. 10) As Norse, build walls behind raidable villagers to prevent escapes. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[@AutomatonAoM]

If i recall correctly they nerfed regeneration rate for colossus, so might be unviable, but i really like point 9. You might be onto something

[@Fingolfin_the_Warden]

Isis monuments only block enemy god powers, you and your allies can still cast. But yes a forward monument empowered by a Pharoah can save your army from those nasty heroic/mythic GPs

[@TuvyahJ]

​@@Fingolfin_the_WardenTheMista did this in the Redbull semis (or quarters?), placing a monument in the enemy base to prevent a greek player from using curse. It was both smart and hilarious!

[@SilverStarGG]

Thank you :) How do you rotate barracks buildings?

[@TuvyahJ]

@@SilverStarGG mouse wheel!

[@stardust507]

Genuinely insane stuff. While this will probably matter only in 1% of the games if not less, it's still crazy how small stuff really change things, and makes me think how much more we might be missing.

[@AutomatonAoM]

Well, you'll be in for a treat then. I discovered something that is even smaller in scale, but can make a difference between winning and losing... :P

[@mkg-u5u]

Norse needs to patrol with the ox card over 6 or 8 farms with the right timing

[@jeromemartel3916]

Ok, that's fun to read. Whenever I play Ra I do a fast archaic farm build and age up with my first rain cast. Boosting the dropoff placement is crucial for this as they get upward of 1.5f/s making every little efficiency costly. Thank you!

[@rwagingsloth9528]

fellow Ra main, curious about this archaic farm build order. ive been under the assumption that the slower gather rate(w/o rain) and 75 gold cost made it take too long to really bother with it until classical when you can grab ptah and get the farms half price

[@datboi7893]

bad build

[@mierkov5204]

You know that famous quote of how given the opportunity gamers will optimize the fun out of anything?

[@sushiakaxel]

Darn, you are the Spirit of the Law of AoM. We need super elliptical farms now.

[@AutomatonAoM]

Sadly general melagius ruined it all... :(

[@rimvydasradzevicius2622]

Well, melagius means lier in Lithuanian language, makes so much sence now

[@burningwings6788]

As an Egypt player in retold, I usually build granaries before transition to farm because of free wall.

[@lemonke8132]

Watching this on 2.3x speed is a fever dream

[@rehm402]

That was incredible thank you

[@betalisk1023]

Amazing analysis and knowledge, thanks for sharing! We need more of this!

[@tempy2440]

Mans actually looked at non iðeal/regular shapes. They need more recognition

[@r0fLc0pt3rf0rtHewiN]

A video about niche farming mechanics with an unproportionally high production value? Yes please. Also really liked the humor

[@kurosujiomake]

What is carry capacity? -me, a gaia one trick

[@Eftkud]

I knew that Husbandry was way better upgrade in Titans for farms, I just couldn't prove it

[@AutomatonAoM]

I always thought everybody knew it, now i'm hearing nobody did? :)

[@Kyomaku]

@@AutomatonAoM Well, not nobody, but no clue how widespread eco knowledge was. At the very least the competitive community knew that husbandry is a super good tech, I think?

[@integralinsanity1641]

Ok I feel like we need to summon @SpiritOfTheLaw here and show him this, it's either a future enemy or a lover.

[@slayerdark0]

I have won a few ranked games just by imploding all their farms, idk about other civs but atlanteans get really low on wood when transitioning into farms

[@edmis90]

Spirit of the Law? Is that you?

[@arthurs8373]

How the f do you go from making videos of dumb shit I would do in the editor as an 8 year old kid to concise videos on gather efficiencies and things I'd never even thought about or heard lmaooo That was too good man keep this type of content going

[@AutomatonAoM]

:) Cause I am both lol. I'm still an autistic 8 year old kid. Great to see you guys like this more, but it has one big downside: it's much more time consuming. :)

[@kyrrilcrepeele1353]

true, but you only need the additional granary or ox cart in the corners of your main TC, and to be honest, i build a new ox cart near every gather source anyway. I will usually have about 9 ox carts per norse game, as i always gather each resource from 3 different places to prevent raids from shutting down 1 resource completely. So when i turn to farms, i usually already have enough ox carts.

[@Blovvfish1]

Your content is godlike, thank you so much!

[@erinckula7779]

Laughing in Gaia main... But seriously though was great video thank you for teaching this

[@lorenzovrolijk]

Great video buddy, cheers, linked to all my friends

[@thorveim1174]

for norse, a pro is that the cart you use at the start of the game for hunts can be recycled for farms, meaning for your first non-TC farms the deposit is already paid for

[@AutomatonAoM]

Could be true, but i usually see it used for a secondary woodline or gold mine

[@thorveim1174]

@@AutomatonAoM gold you REALLY dont need more than one cart to generate an excess of gold with how well dwarves mine it. As for wood, feel it would come up later in the game, way past the point where you have quite a lot of farms set up. But yeah, sad that carts dedicated to farms essentially become a static object that takes pop cap, leaving their only advantage to be that they are a more compact setup than other civs

[@stardust507]

@@thorveim1174 Ox carts don't take population

[@matt-z5j]

@@stardust507 yup

[@VitorCadari]

* laughs in ox cart *

[@LuizRhetor]

Good humor, excellent research, knowledge and theory-crafting, sums up to a really well designed and entertaining video. Hope you get the subs you clearly deserve. Keep up the good work!

[@muramasa870]

Nah we just need actual automaton buffs.

[@AutomatonAoM]

I would be down to make automatons the only viable unit tbh

[@noaccount4]

@@AutomatonAoM new Atlantean major God Leto; all the minor god picks are just different versions of Leto

[@AutomatonAoM]

@@noaccount4 i laughed way too much at this

[@oom-3262]

@@noaccount4 leto with a blonde wig, leto with shorter hair, leto with bald wig

[@HonJoTap]

Simple symmetrical geometric symbol: Internet: 🫵😲

[@tekin7351]

Very nice and interesting video! Thanks for the time and effort :) (those calculations looked really time consuming!!)

[@AutomatonAoM]

They were, but were partly borrowed from old titans common knowledge!

[@tomasangel797]

This video just awakened my primal urge of plowing the fields.

[@victorgg4170]

Good video. Would be nice to see the villager logic for building farms.

[@AutomatonAoM]

Hi victor! :) What you mean? like, when would be best to build them?

[@victorgg4170]

@@AutomatonAoM I was thinking how do you send a group of villagers to build farms around your tc so that they each go to an individual farm and build it rather than all trying to build the same farm. I notice that when I have a group of villagers selected, then shift click a bunch of farms around tc, they all seem to go to the same farm and then get stuck on each other. So, what would be the best way to avoid that?

[@sliptrikk3018]

If you got alot of Ox wagons from hunt and collapsed gold mines repurposing them for optimal farming makes sense.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

Coming from aoe2 and this is exactly what I needed! Really helpful video :)

[@totallyoriginal9741]

If I got the resources I’m doing 9 farms per ox as Norse, the slightly extra walking time makes less of a difference when my entire back line of buildings is 40+ farms or something stupid like that

[@AutomatonAoM]

9 farms means 1 close farm and 8 distant farms, the difference may be more than 10% total. It's a lot

[@totallyoriginal9741]

Another thing that makes Norse farms with ox even worse is just how if an enemy unit attacks the ox it will move away, and you can’t perfectly move it back to the middle of the farms anymore cos when you click it’ll just end up focusing on one farm. Common Norse L and I literally only play them lol

[@AutomatonAoM]

@totallyoriginal9741 you can make it go to a random point out of the farms (to the other side, in a way that must pass in the center) and while it is in the middle use the "stop" command

[@totallyoriginal9741]

@@AutomatonAoM oh I didn't think of that thanks! Tho usually by the point my ox farms are being attacked I've probably already lost haha

[@HonJoTap]

I hate internet. Hooked cross is an ancient symbol.

[@AnubhavB00B5]

Fascinating mechanics overview!

[@flandrinelextensionniste6490]

Super-ellipses don't work because they assume a single layer of farms around the TC and that every "diagonal farm" is placed perfectly in the corner.

[@AutomatonAoM]

Thank you for your opinion. I think that superellipse gives almost (not super precisely, but it's close enough) the same time in every direction to reach the perimeter of the farm. After that, farm distance should matter! :)

[@voidgods]

Great research, great vid, the SoTL we need, keep it up!

[@AutomatonAoM]

Thanks! Turns out sauron was a very supportive guy all along :)

[@smushycows2334]

bro this was actually awesome, thanks for teaching me so much about the game in such a short time!

[@sweedenaliens1937]

very good edit , my man deserves way more then that u should expand to other topics beside it like economics would be great to watch!

[@Oatskii]

Incredible. I loved the market video too. Empowering and Fish coming?

[@AutomatonAoM]

Probably? If i can find anything interesting about them!

[@sliptrikk3018]

I always opt for a little gap so I can have a perfect square.

[@jd2792]

Its worth noting that farms have a diffrent cost for every civ egypt pays with gold and atlanten is the most expensive in wood

[@mripwntheworld]

video about age of mythology using advanced geometry was not on my bingo card

[@GreatestPurge]

Great video breakdown. a lot to think about… though im lazy and will probs just do corner farms anyways 😊

[@AutomatonAoM]

Me too man, its so hard getting myself to not complete the windmill

[@ManamindEU]

Oh actually i found a way to place 10 Farms arround the TC and every Vill. is on a short way. You have to place them a couple of pixels off center so you have 3 left, 3 rigth, 2 down and 2 top. it works. Just try it!

[@AutomatonAoM]

I don't know why I didn't try it. But if true sounds amazing. Thanks for telling me! I will try!

[@SilverStarGG]

I love this so much. I am very curious to hear about when I should uograde my economy upgrades especially now when they changed it. Would love to hear and learn that from a video :)

[@HadouGun]

I guess Carts make it easier to take Hunt longer till you have the resources to invest in Farms.

[@100mexk]

Meh maybe if there was a treaty mode to just build up economy for 40 minutes like AoE3 this would matter. I cant imagine focusing on something like this when rushing to play out your selected strategy for the game is any good. People have come up with insanely fast attack build orders (Kronos 2 promethean rush etc). Most high elo people ive seen dont even bother with windmill farm formation to begin with, they just spam a bunch of farms around if a battle is taking place somewhere else on the map. Love the analysis though

[@AutomatonAoM]

While true, there are some boomy high elo games, and in any case building 8 farms is less time consuming that building 12! And If you do the windmill, you can always fix it later without worries! :)

[@Kyomaku]

It's exactly that kind of thinking, that makes people get stuck. Always strive for improvements, no matter how little they are and try to implement them. They function as small building blocks, piling up atop each other, until you suddenly have a great advantage over your opponent. Plus, I don't think being careful with this placement will take any effort at all, so you should just do it.

[@TheGreatTusks]

Great video! Awesome insights, thanks for the explanation :)

[@alexandreholleaux5646]

Spirit of the Automaton

[@herseyibilenadam.]

Prostagma

[@AutomatonAoM]

Leye

[@iuliuegyed9899]

it is sorta accurate that the ancient civilization that exists on agriculture on the Nile can have the most optimal farms while the greeks with a more b tier settled civilization have farms but theyre kinda worse and the norse.. well.. they dont even have farms nowadays ;)

[@AutomatonAoM]

To be fair, the 2x2 norse farm setup with the oxcart is the best in the game, as villagers instantaneously drop the food. You won't even be able to see the "carrying food" animation at all. They are 1-2% better than tc side farms

[@Just_a_sinner_]

Okok there are new farm strategies but i won't drop the windimill shape for...personal reasons.

[@ScytherDOTA]

You are my favorite autistic AOM content creator.

[@AutomatonAoM]

Wait, there are others? Let me befriend them

[@Kyomaku]

@@AutomatonAoM That reply made me chuckle. Good video tho, I enjoyed it and good breakdown of the gather rate issue. I was the one who originally discovered that back in AoT, and seeing this breakdown of how stuff changed was very satisfying. Everything I wanted to see fixed in regards to eco, essentially happened, only the farm change, I did not see coming and the hunt/chicken gather rate comparison also leaves me with mixed feelings. Ra did get buffed to gather chickens faster, too, so that's even more amusing, cause isn't chickens then quite a lot faster than hunt for Ra? Tbf, I've not played a single game of Retold, so I'm a bit out of the loop of the current state. Edit: Nevermind, I remembered it was berries that go a buff! How do berries compare then, tho?

[@AutomatonAoM]

​@@Kyomaku ​i know who you are. You don't know me because I was under a different name, but you helped me recover a forgotten titans mod 3-4 years ago. You went out of your way to search for it to give it to me and I'm still thankful ❤

[@AutomatonAoM]

​@@KyomakuI have mixed feelings on hunt as well . It may be worth analizing

[@Kyomaku]

@@AutomatonAoM Everything is worth analyzing, you never know what you learn. :)

[@clairespivak2953]

How do alternative farm shapes play with ox carts? 2x3, 3x3, maybe even a 7 farm eight shape?

[@AutomatonAoM]

2x2 nors farm is even better than tc side farm. It has 0second walking time. Everything else is suboptimal

[@clairespivak2953]

@AutomatonAoM obviously a 2x2 is optimal, but is a 2x3 with 1 ox cart more or less efficient than tc corner farms? If its less, how much?

[@AutomatonAoM]

​@@clairespivak2953sadly I didn't analize this. It should be worth a try tough. But if I remember correctly the ox is shorter than the farm's side so no, in 2x3, the 4 distant farms are worse than normal corner farms

[@jangoak474]

Great content, keep up the good work!

[@slayerdark0]

Great content, funny and informative

[@markjerue9734]

But what if you can empower? What if you can move ox carts? What if you have a lure or a dock for drop-off points? Have fun Germans!

[@AutomatonAoM]

Empowered corner farms are better than granary side farms, but that pharaoh will be switched to the market eventually (or some other place). Empowering the tc feels bad either way, as you're just empowering 8 or 12 farm workers. It's better on a 20 vill gold mine! :)

[@shoxiang8307]

14:12 You meant a 2x2 squared farm, right?

[@muramasa870]

nah 4x4 oxcart for offroading

[@AutomatonAoM]

Yes! Luckily the video contradicts it

[@bobgoran]

Excellent work!

[@drdiabeetus4419]

Oh god, the goats... THE GOATS

[@paulsd9255]

I just click on the TC and Granary for auto farm placement

[@majdavlk649]

how to calculate farm gather rate if we include walking? i want to compare greek farming to atlantean

[@AutomatonAoM]

Put one farm in editor, let Greek villager farm for 10 minutes. Pause at 10 minutes and divide the food you had by 600 (es, 300 food/600= 0,50 food/second). Then do the same with atty and compare

[@ICHBinCOOLERalsJeman]

but how does that square up with Ra empowerment? Am I better off letting them farm at an unempowered grannary than having the walking distance on a corner farm on an empowered town center?

[@AutomatonAoM]

Empowered corner farms are better. Granary side farm is 7,7 to 10% better than windmill corner farm, but: - The granary has a cost in building time (albeit for egypt is just 13 resources) - Empowerment is more than double the %! :)

[@MauricioOsuna-et8et]

The fact they don't just make farms be 1x1 and be placed with a drag so you can instantly fill a whole region with farms in every possible spot... It's senseless. Let us carpet the whole place with crops! That, and make the other use of such a tool: ROADS. Roads increase movement speed. Roads are good. Let us make roads and spread farms, man!

[@TheSourceInfo]

really well done

[@shazzy7620]

is there a tldw besides the ideal farm configuration?

[@AutomatonAoM]

Not really :)

[@Reskrox]

I think norse should just bite the bullet and keep doing the old windmill, since having 12 farms, wich 4 are ineficcient, is still more food than the 12 farms wich 4 are really expensive

[@AutomatonAoM]

You can fix the windmill in the late game either way

[@yagodesantiago]

Wow nice content brother

[@VideoJe1]

How many villagers are enough tho? I heard a lot that you should keep making them constantly, but then it gets in the way of making military units and stuff.

[@AutomatonAoM]

You should always reach max villagers! Having a little less army is not too much of a problem if your economy has given you more tech, as your army is stronger. Also, you have less army but can continuously produce units from military buildings (so you always stay at max pop!), while the player with lower villager count can't produce as much as you do! :)

[@navarone4031]

This is going viral :D

[@kingsgambit7098]

Personally, I think farms are busted. While it is nice to have some sort of infinite resource to close out the game. You still need some sort of diminishing return. Wood has a diminishing return from the distance walked. Animals have decay. Gold has traders with distance traveled and a higher risk factor. Farms need some sort of diminishing return. It would be pretty cool to see seasons introduced or some day and night cycle. Each one of these resources players has found a way to exploit mechanics and prevent diminishing returns. Build more lumber mills for overpopulated tree lines. Gather food at a rate that creates irregular idle time in order to prevent decay. The idea of the mechanics are nice and very creative, but flawed when it comes to the gaming community.

[@AutomatonAoM]

Farms have a very high cost. Hunt and chicken are free. You don't have to pay to generate them.

[@kingsgambit7098]

@@AutomatonAoM While that is true it is also, in a sense, irrelevant. The 75 wood or gold that the farms cost dosen't compare to the infinite supply of food generated over a games length. Just to throw some numbers out there. It cost 1800 wood to produce 24 farms. This is a late game number so maxed out eco upgrades for farms as the Greeks is .91 I think. That is 1310 food per minute. You could say that farms start building around 10-12 minutes in a standard game. So ideally you would adjust your production of wood to start compensating for this cost. Especially since wood is by far the most natural resource on a map. Often multiplying the natural gold by 5x as much. A more interesting concept is optimally putting a set number of villagers on a natural resource. This prevents such irregular idle time allowing players to better anticipate when to que up the next task and make idling almost nonexistent. It will also have a much slower diminishing return rate and reduce the amount of APM required to manage your eco. All while keeping a steady rate of supply. It also, surprisingly enough, reduce the amount of time it takes to deplete the natural resources on the map. Compared to player that overpopulates each resource. The real question to it though is why don't players do this? So many benefits and yet they go will the safer option by overpopulating in order to defend one area at a time. It's no wonder you don't see many walls being built by top level players so often. To me this is like building extra watchtowers to compensate for a possible early attack without actually scouting for it. While it seems free, it is actually extremely impractical in a time-based format.

[@AutomatonAoM]

@kingsgambit7098 I really like what you say. But in most games, having all villagers on a gold mine (for example) is better. Most times they will try to gold starve you and you will have to build the fortress on second gold mine, or just fight there with the army! :) having longer walk time for some villagers, in this case, is worth it because you don't lose any :)

[@raphlecrabe8373]

Very nice video !

[@Marcos-sw7jq]

Nice video bro !

[@georgestain2803]

I like there is someone like me, who loves this game for many years and was good even if never bothered to learn hotkeys. I am even more handcuffed becouse I play AoM only becouse of Ra. Not even Eggy main, I am simle Ra main. Sadly Ra seems to be underperfoming in Retold. What is your opinion on 5% hack armor of Scarab? I think it's absurdly low. Good content. I like in depth mechanic videos. see ya :)

[@AutomatonAoM]

Woah, I didn't notice that change yet. But I think it might need being considered together with the death damage. Is that increased? If so, you wouldn't want to hit him with melee units regardless. If so, seems they made it super bad vs civ with melee heroes. If they are atty or norse, you can defend them well enough with axeman. If they are Greek just don't pick scarabs 11

[@georgestain2803]

@@AutomatonAoM there is definitely more dmg on death and even mor HP overall, besides that just little changes. It just kinda feel weird using melee unit with virtualy 0 hack armor compared to AoM: Titans. For example Behemoth is straight up buffed on many stats + brand new additional passive. Directional Plating (Passive): Has a directional armor reduction of 50% at an angle greater than 60%. Hard to understand thought process of devs here.

[@ozisponas1593]

Norse don t farm they hunt

[@lonesomealeks4206]

Tel'por D'shlar!

[@danielrziha6381]

Subbed.

[@chshchi]

Albert eistein talent wasted by aom

[@AutomatonAoM]

Aom deserves everything and even more. there is no waste :P

[@haydenvaniderstine9645]

Great video!

[@ManamindEU]

I love it

[@connormako1987]

14:40 I don’t understand, why aren’t we doing this? Didn’t you just explain that it is good and then go on to explain that it is good? What am I missing?

[@yeiltrasreality1627]

He's saying don't do it on a forward base, close to where the enemy is because they can harass the villagers and waste the time and resources it took to make that shape at a forward town center

[@connormako1987]

@@yeiltrasreality1627 thanks

[@CarlosBassBughi2]

You have to build 4 granary for extra 12 farms, while you can just place those farms on other TCs. If you keep 24 farms at only one TC + 4 Granarys you can lose everything for some raids/God Powers, while spliting into 12 per TC will be more safe if some TC get raided you still have the others. With 3 TC you can keep 36 farms, 4 more where you placed the early chicken granary and if you have other granary in safe places where you hunted/ harvested you can place 4 farms each, I don't think the game will last to where you need 50+ farms as you will be collecting Wood and Gold and if you are greek, favor too.

[@guglielmo7191]

Love this series. Where are you from bro?

[@AutomatonAoM]

Italy

[@guglielmo7191]

​@@AutomatonAoM Ci avevo pensato effettivamente ahhahaha grande continua così

[@AutomatonAoM]

@@guglielmo7191 La pronuncia alla renzi ti aveva acceso la lampadina ahaha

[@whoopsydoopsy]

nice vid

[@oom-3262]

bro your content has peaked. Just get a better micro and you can be the SOTL of AOM.

[@HughJazz13]

I think all of your decimal points in the video became as suspiciously long as commas hmm.

[@MoMoVsMTG]

Another banger

[@aka8373]

Very funny video : )

[@MichelsonEdison-q7j]

77797 Hirthe Center

[@Crysis051264]

Ra Players sweating trying to further supercharge that eco, by reducing walking times by .02s.

[@WzdKokoshev]

r/RTSSlander 😂 I just build a farm & kill oponnent, it's not that deep

[@brunopereiracabral2392]

Omg 😱

[@lekhakaananta5864]

Doesn't matter. Nobody ever lost a game because their corner farms were 7% less efficient. Most people who are not pros end the game with thousands of resources in the stockpile. Another 7% food they could have gotten late game after farm transition literally doesn't matter.

[@AutomatonAoM]

Well, it matters when you have it (having it sooner means more army or faster tech). Also, even in late game, unless you're aiming for wonder or titan, you should keep at 0 resources. Too much eco and no way to spend it? Bring some villagers to the fighting front and start towering/walling up

[@lekhakaananta5864]

​@@AutomatonAoM Well, investing in ideal drop-offs always delays the payoff because of up-front cost, so if it mattered that you had 10 extra food in the next 10 seconds, you're gonna be even less likely to want to build extra drop offs. I think the takeaway is that in practice, people shouldn't care about extra drop off sites to speed up corner farms by 7%. It doesn't pay off early, and when it does pay off later, it won't matter because 7% for 1/3 of your farms means it's probably a 2% effect on your whole food production when you have like 36 farms. That's a point in the game when having 2000 food vs 2040 food in your stockpile doesn't matter.

[@AutomatonAoM]

@lekhakaananta5864 I mostly agree, but the numbers are off. - it is 7,7 percent (not 7%) for the slowest villagers (laborers with no upgrades). The faster you farm, the more you will walk. It may go up to 10% - 7% of 1/3 is 2,3%, not 2%. Even accounting for only 7,7% of 1/3, is more than 2,5%, which is 25% greater than 2%. 2,5% of 2000 yould be 50, not 40! - that 50 is more than you think, in my opinion. If you just collect resources without spending them, you see 2050 and 2000 and think (meh, it's actually the same). But the game is about spending. You and your enemy have a big, rushy, fight-heavy game. All your food is spent into army and army upgrades. After a while, with equal army trades, you both have 0 food, because you are training like crazy. Guess what, enemy has 0 and you actually have 50. Or he has 25 and you have 75. Maybe you get to heroic before him (imagine oranos vs oranos, you cast chaos 10 seconds before him! Or flaming weapons, or any god power really!). Maybe you can get that extra armory upgrade you need. Maybe the enemy can't train from all military buildings, and you can train 1 unit more. That can be enough to unbalance a perfectly even game. It is a small difference, but it can really matter in my opinion :)

[@lekhakaananta5864]

​@@AutomatonAoM I disagree, but I'm not trying to nitpick your opinions. My overall point is that there are some important and interesting things to consider. In a game as complex is this, an important concept when you're playing is knowing where to spend your attention. There is also the concept of "slack", similar to project management, where some tasks have room for error or delay because they are not critical, while other tasks are critical bottlenecks and thus don't have "slack". Strategy in AoM is mostly about the higher level concepts because they make huge impacts to the game. 50 food after collecting 2000 food is OBVIOUSLY a case where it matters too little. To argue otherwise is to send the wrong message to people trying to learn what this game is about. It's not about having that 50 extra food. After you've gathered 2000 food, you definitely have enough slack. Of course you can invent a convoluted scenario where 50 food matters, but then you can imagine equally many scenarios for every other similar detail, like a misplaced house or an idle villager. In a real game if you're 50 food short of heroic age, you'd just use a market to buy it. 90% of the time you are short on one resource because you misallocated vills to another one, so you have the option to use the market. Or cancel a unit in queue. See, there are so many options, because many things give you 'food slack' in this scenario. Not to mention that corner farms would not matter in your example because you almost certainly shouldn't be investing into extra dropoffs before getting to Heroic. If you watch even one game replay you know that people have idle villagers and make mistakes that cost a lot more than 50 food per 2000 food. So changing any of those things would make at least as much of a difference. And that's not the main point; the main point is that there are a lot of things that make a much larger difference! Which is partly why people have idle vills in the first place, because other things are higher priority! That's why I stand by the statement that the corner farm rate doesn't matter. I think nitpicking details is the totally wrong mentality to look at this game. Like, what's the point of nitpicking 7/3 = 2.333 ? I assume everybody knows that. I could also nitpick that your Oranos Chaos example fails because Atlanteans don't suffer from corner farming, but you see, I can see the abstract higher-level argument about god-power timings and debate that in good faith instead of just saying "Chaos timing doesn't care about corner farms". If you truly insist corner farms make a difference, and not just a funny nerdy topic for a youtube video, I'd have to ask what your ELO is, sir, because I can't believe any player with experience in ranked would take that claim seriously. I didn't intend to sound hostile in a youtube comment such as this but I think only a troll would insist that corner farms matter lol.

[@AutomatonAoM]

@lekhakaananta5864 your arguments are very compelling and you seem a calm and intelligent person. I like this. I was "nitpicking" about the 2,5% instead of 2% because usually in these scenarios you round numbers in your "opponents" favor, to prove even more that your argument is compelling. Doing it in your favor seemed like you cared less about truth and more about convincing and that prompted my "nitpicking". Doesn't mean you really were doing that, but I felt like (albeit probably wrongly) you did. I agree it's a small thing, but i still think it matters. Obviously there are more important things, but even more obviously small things can add up and become a medium thing. What we can do in every game is aspire to play perfectly, meaning not forgetting houses and also building farms perfectly. Seems like your argument is "it diverts attention too much, so it's actually a malus" which makes sense and it's valid. But again, it depends on the players skill. And it's not a sure thing that diverts attention. Maybe you can only do 8 farms, and skip the corner ones, instead of doing half the windmill. There are countless different scenarios where it doesn't even divert the attention, and a slight improvement is, in my opinion, still an improvement, as long as the player knows his priorities. And I repeat that small things add up: 50 food here, 50 gold there, 50 wood doing another thing. The more you play perfectly, the more those 1% or 2% (or whatever it is) will make, all together, a difference. Especially in a game where having 1 soldier more can make 25% of your army survive.... small differences can become medium differences, which can become large differences. The game does snowball! :) As for the elo, I am currently 1218, with 7 games played. I don't know what my real elo is tbh. But I've been 1900 on voobly (and i don't hotkey, cause i don't tryhard), so I can't be that bad... still, I don't get what the argument is. Its the logic that matters most. A bad player could say a logical thing and that wouldn't change the solidity of the argument. That point kinda sounded like an ad hominem, which I could get offended for, if I was somebody who actually gets offended easily :) Again, your points are compelling, and you seem intelligent. But it's the general mentality that fuels your points that I don't like. I think that with enough of that, enough people in the same "headspace", you could have a community that doesn't improve much, because most things that are big in scale get automatically discovered and are rather obvious to begin with. After those are all fleshed out, progress would stagnate, while there could be much room for improvement, little by little! :)

[@jcabben]

Cutting in Spirit of the Law's turf? Disliked and unsubbed /s