Let's Compare: Super Zaxxon - C64 vs Atari 800XL

[@SNARC15]

"So why can't I fly up and down?" That part was in a low ceiling tunnel, unlike the first game where that part is in deep space.

[@Fawltykog]

Brought back good memories of playing that on my much missed Atari 800 XL back in the good olde 8 bit days, cheers!

[@atariandre5014]

I don't like Zaxxon either but the Zaxxon (1?) version on A8 is amazingly smooth and fast. It should be as A8 offers hardware scrolling in both ways. So it's pretty amazing that "Super" is so jerky in scrolling....I totally never play it...

[@NotATube]

Datasoft had the rights to the original Zaxxon on the Atari. Sega sold "Super Zaxxon" themselves, so presumably it was done by completely different developers.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

The game in this video is in NTSC mode. In Pal the scroll is not that bad and the colors are different.

[@Theshadowsnose]

Got my first 8-bit Atari about a year ago and I love it ever since. Even though having only a tape drive is a pain in the ass.

[@Heaven-dy9lj]

Look out for the Atari disk drive. Twice the speed of the C64. Wish I had one back in the day. The tape was torture.

[@Theshadowsnose]

@@Heaven-dy9lj I do have a disk drive and a SD2SIO now. You're absolutely right: Loading from tape on the old Ataris is a real Pain. About the floppy speed... I had (and still have) my C64 modded with a parallel speeder. That makes loading on the C64 much more bearable. My Atari 1050 also has a built in floppy speeder. I think it's HappyDOS, but I'*m not sure. I mostly use the SD2SIO nowadays.

[@datacipher]

Zaphod771 Yes, that is true...in general I find c64 ports to often have a slight edge in static graphics (depends on game - such different capabilities of the two systems....), but the gameplay to be slow....that Atari generally had fast, fluid gameplay. Here, it's the opposite. @theShadownose Super Zaxxon was also available for the Apple 2

[@Theshadowsnose]

datacipher The Apple ][ is quit rare over here. Also, artefacting colors don't work on a PAL machine, afaik, so for the purpose of playing games I would have to get a NTSC machine. The are quite heavy beasts, so shipping costs would be prohibitive. I would love to get one of those machines, even though I don't think they are great game machines.

[@Dkentflyer]

not sure went wrong the atari version as the first game had good scrolling

[@NotATube]

I think they were developed by different companies. Atarimania credits the conversion of the original to Datasoft, whereas the sequel was made/sold by Sega themselves (whose Atari 8-bit conversions were apparently not much good), so I assume it was a completely different codebase and author. Oddly, Zaxxon and Super Zaxxon on the C64 were made by another two different companies, Synapse and HESWare respectively. Not sure why the rights were split like that.

[@MrSEA-ok2ll]

Not being a poor sport here, but the artist and programmer's experience with the hardware make the difference here. So I would not pick on Atari's hardware, but the creators.

[@Theshadowsnose]

You're probably right. It's a shame that experienced programmers became increasingly scarce on the Atari machines after 1984.

[@MarkTheMorose]

I think we were all 'wowed' by Zaxxon's graphics back then, but actually playing the game shows its difficulties and lack of depth. It doesn't look like they tried very hard with the Atari 'Super' version here, so I'm off to check your video of the original.

[@MrSEA-ok2ll]

The sad reality was that the C64 stock had 64kbs of ram while many Atari computers of the day that had only 16 or 32 kbs...in fact, when the C64 first arrived in 1982, the Atari 800 had a max of 48 kbs...it was not until 1983 when the 800xl offered 64kbs.

[@Theshadowsnose]

Those 16k missing in the 800 didn't do too much in my opinion. A lot of early C64 games were far smaller than 64k.

[@TheCodedtestament]

The game is really good, easier and more playable than the arcade. Great job, but Zaxxon is better.

[@classicarcadeamusementpark4242]

I had a C-64 in early 1983 and I generally thought the C-64 games were better than those for the Atari 8 bit computers. I was wrong! Checking out titles via emulation for both systems in modern times, I generally favor the Atari 8 bit games more than the C-64. The colors are often brighter and I like the other qualities there are clearly Atari. And a home brew game like "Atari Blast!" which can run via cartridge on an Atari 400 or better with no additional hardware really shows the power of the Atari 8 bit and I don't know of any C-64 games that impress me as much. I did buy an Atari 1200XL in the 80s on closeout, but I only had a few cartridges for it an no disk drive unlike my C-64 & Apple ][.

[@Theshadowsnose]

It depends on the game. Some games are better on the Atari, some are better on the C64. Sadly, the Atari pretty much died in 84/85 and after that not too much effort was undertaken to produce quality Games for it anymore.

[@classicarcadeamusementpark4242]

@@Theshadowsnose I'll have to look at the dates on the games as I load them. I was surprised to learn there were so many good ones made during the era I used the C-64. By 1985, my Amiga 1000 pretty much took over my interest in any of my computers/game systems. My Apple ][ Plus was my main computer prior, and the C-64 before that, TI 99/4a before the C-64. By 1985, the focus was on 16 bit computers here in America or PC's. The C-64 didn't go away immediately though. Probably lasted until about 1988 before most people bought a newer generation system.

[@PadreAbraham28]

What a difference in quality. The C64 is decent, the Atari version looks terrible.

[@jakealden2517]

I'm an Atari 800xl user but clearly the C64 version of Zaxxon is far better. The 800xl dropped the ball on some of their games, with even some 2600 games having better graphics.

[@Polaventris]

Yeah the Atari 8-bit version looks quite horrible. I'm sure they could have done much better than that.

[@zdzislawkrawiec3345]

C64 was much better

[@NotATube]

@@zdzislawkrawiec3345 C64 "Super Zaxxon" was distributed (and presumably written) by a completely different company to the Atari conversion, which was distributed by Sega themselves. Not sure why.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@zdzislawkrawiec3345 like it was "much better" in..... Yoomp, Space Harrier, Total eclipse, Stunt car racer, Pang, Rescue on Fractalus, Prince of Persia, Ballblazer, Pole position, Attack of the Mutant Camels, , Tangent(Guard on Atari) etc etc etc.? You are confusing a bad port with which platform was better. C64 was a good machine but nothing special if you consider it came 3 years later than the A8 architecture. It was an improvement in many aspects (memory and graphic management, sprite scroll engine, Music/tunes) but it failed to be better in many others (disk loading, color palette, cpu speed, SFX). It was never good enough to beat the older Atari machine and this is verified by numerous Homebrew productions. The limitations of C64 in pseudo 3d graphics are more than obvious.

[@NotATube]

Most likely explanation for the huge difference in quality... the C64 "Super Zaxxon" was sold by HESWare, whereas the Atari version was sold by Sega themselves. Thus I'm guessing they were developed completely separately. (And Sega apparently had a poor record with Atari conversions). I've no idea why the rights were split like that. Oddly, while the rights to the C64 and Atari conversions of the original Zaxxon had also been split, it was between *another* two companies- Synapse (C64) and Datasoft (Atari)!!! Again, this probably explains why Atari "Super Zaxxon" is so different- and inferior- to Datasoft's original Atari "Zaxxon". Sega probably rewrote it from scratch with completely different developers.

[@Theshadowsnose]

It was even weirder with Frogger. They licensed the rights for cartridge games to a different company as the right for magnetic media games. That resulted in 2 completely different Frogger concersions for the C64, the 8-bit Ataris and even the 2600.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Is that an NTSC atari machine ? Those colors are way off and the scroll really jerky. Try a pal machine where the game performs better

[@zaphod77]

The strange thing is the original atari 800 zaxxon is as fast as the arcade super zaxxon, and this version is slow.

[@jakealden2517]

I didn't know there were different versions for the 800xl.

[@zaphod77]

@@jakealden2517 i meant that super zaxxon is normally FASTER then zaxxon, and on the atari, zaxxon is FASTER than Super Zaxxon.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@zaphod77 Datasoft knew how to program the A8 line....Sega meshed up with its conversion.

[@IntoTheVerticalBlank]

The 800XL version was never finished.

[@Theshadowsnose]

Are you sure about that? It got commercially released by SEGA (US) and u.s. gold (UK)

[@IntoTheVerticalBlank]

@@Theshadowsnose Oh no, I know it was released, I mean it looks like it was never finished =)

[@jamesheyworth3566]

As an Atari user and fanboy , I must admit the c64 beats the Atari ... That's a shame.

[@sleepete12]

I am fan of both but not out of nostalgia - I grew up with PC but I am currently into 8bit computers (not so much retro gaming) BUT whenever I look I can see this "flame war" between C64 and atari and frankly I don't get it...C64 games are obviously always smoother and better looking than any other game on atari (regardless if it is a port of the same game)...are atari fanboys blind or stupid?

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@sleepete12 you don't get the flame war because you either grew up with PCs or you already are in a camp = ). -"C64 games are obviously always smoother and better looking than any other game on atari (regardless if it is a port of the same game)." -try claiming that after running Yoomp, Space Harrier, Total eclipse, Stunt car racer, Pang, Rescue on Fractalus, Prince of Persia, Ballblazer, Pole position, Attack of the Mutant Camels, etc etc etc. -"are atari fanboys blind or stupid?" -I guess you just gave the perfect example on how ignorant claims can fuel this "flame war". The arrogance and ignorance of most C64 users on the A8 line is the main cause behind it. Its not a coincidence that almost ALL mainstream retro community youtube channels have acknowledge the amazing graphic capabilities of the system (even being a 3 years older platform) not to mention fast loading disk interface, SIO (usb like) connection port, Svideo in 1970s etc etc. As many others have done, you are confusing the poor skills of programmers with the capabilities of a machine to scroll graphics. A brief look in the homebrew list of games will help you with this confusion. Cheers.

[@equid0x]

The original Zaxxon for 800 blows both of these out of the water. This is not a good example of the Atari's capabilities.

[@jakealden2517]

was the original on a cartridge?

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@jakealden2517 I had it on tape.

[@esathegreat]

Check out the Atari 2600 version

[@stevensgoodallsg]

Haha. That is bad

[@bryede]

The Atari version was a real amateur job.

[@werpu12]

worst zaxxon ? Play the Atari VCS version of Zaxxon or the ZX Spectrum version :-), seriously yes it is a bad port

[@piotrkochanek3192]

atari is sheet in all games . commodore wins in any competition...

[@Theshadowsnose]

No, it's not! There are quite a few games from the early 80s where the Atari version is better than the C64 one. Just after 1984, there wasn't much done anymore on the Ataris.

[@piotrkochanek3192]

yeah yeah you can comfort to that, but in my and other opinion atari is sheet ;-)

[@NotATube]

@@piotrkochanek3192 I doubt he's bothered- in my experience he's not an especially partisan fanboy of either format. Which is more than I can say for you! :-)

[@deckard5pegasus673]

@@piotrkochanek3192 you have "sheet" in the brains

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

​@@piotrkochanek3192 if you take in to consideration that the Atari 8bit architecture came in 1979 and Commodore's answers came with the VIC 20 and C64 one and three years later respectively we should expect the Atari machine to be ''sheet" as you said. But early games by programmers who knew what they are doing and modern homebrew games don't justify your opinion. Just run games like Yoomp, Space Harrier, Total eclipse, Stunt car racer, Pang, Rescue on Fractalus, Prince of Persia, Ballblazer, Pole position, Attack of the Mutant Camels, Time Slip Tangent(Guard on Atari) etc and you will see that the C64 never really beat the Atari 8bit architecture in many aspects....not to mention disk loading times, Basic limited access to the machine's capabilities, limited color palette resulting to the famous dirty grey look almost all C64's games share.