Let's Do The Science of The Expanse S02E10 "Cascade"

[@tanler7953]

Frankie Adams does a great job depicting the difficulties of a Martian adapting to Earth gravity. In spite of training at 1G, Bobbie's balance is a little off (She really takes a tumble off that window ledge during her escape), and she tires quickly. She trades some meds with a guy who explains to her that it might take a couple of weeks to adjust to the heavier gravity on Earth. I think anyone born on Mars could adjust to Earth's gravity, but maybe a year would be more like it.

[@dapeach06]

In Leviathan Wakes, one of the things Miller learns about Julie Mao during his investigation is that she learned low-G Jiu jitsu, so excellent prediction about that being used. I dont know if it will be in the show, maybe theyll repurpose that detail for a different character #cannedchicken

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Excellent, I would imagine so. It's hard to say for soldiers since Armor seems to be a big part of the mix but definitely in the belt.

[@MikeAben]

That opportunity may be coming, but I'll leave some spoiler space. ...POTENTIAL SPOILER... In Abaddon's Gate (the third novel), Julie's sister plays a major role. She, most certainly, presents amble opportunity to display what low and microgravity martial arts may be like.

[@LordCalidor]

#CannedChicken Aaaah, but you missed the best part - binge drinking & getting pissed in zero-G! :-) I loved how he used the laser meter on his gun to measure the distance to the railing on the lower deck and his pilot-brain already busy with calculating routes, forces and directions for safely sucking the floating beer. #MyTheory about fighting in low G is that owing to the Newton's 3rd law, they should have a solid counter-force, or good traction under their feet, to the kick, punch, stab, shoot etc. or else the recoil would be a bi$ch! Also, in hand to hand combat without a solid support, the force of the punches, stabs would probably be very weak. As they were in this episode - since a few blows by a filled metal can to the head by the muscular dude such as Amos, using full swings, would probably crack opet Roma's scull in a first few hits. But we see the damage is kinda superficial and the guy was able to laugh it off and get back to work pretty soon after the beating.

[@DasaniVII]

I don't know about hand-to-hand, but I'd bet that with firearms, engagement distances (outside of a habitat) would increase significantly. Reduced gravity and thinner atmosphere would result in an increase in range and accuracy. Bizarrely, firing downwards might become a disadvantage, as the angle could result in the recoil physically lifting you off the ground, while firing upwards would conversely allow you to brace better, increasing accuracy. Also, a totally minor point, but I'm pretty sure the plants on the green wall aren't radishes - in fact, Prax tells us what they are. Ipomoea batatas - the sweet potato.

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Thanks for your reply. What would increase accuracy for guns? Drop would change obviously but that's about compensation and training. Just interested, thanks. On the radish. Yea, I noticed that after I recorded the audio. I had a few sentences after connecting to current research on radishes, but when I re-watched it I realized they weren't and cut it. I couldn't drop that one mention without re-recording the whole thing though so I left it in as it was already late on Monday.

[@DasaniVII]

Let me preface this by pointing out that I am no expert on firearms, but as I understand it, bullets traveling long distances are affected not only by drop, but also drag and wind effects. A thinner atmosphere would result in a reduction of the latter two. Of course, any difference due to that would be completely eclipsed by the effects of recoil. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I start to doubt if small arms would even have a place on the low-g battlefield (outside habitats), due to how much easier it would be to deploy small guided ordinance (like that Martian missile pack). ...Although I guess they might still survive due to economics.

[@hmurdock]

Alhambra IV actually in the books,there are special weapons for zero gravity, with a special gas redirection mechanism to make the shooter get zero recoil force, so they won't fly backward or spin while shooting.

[@autopartsmonkey7992]

to use a complex hydro system like this...YOU CANT USE JUST PLANTS...you need fungus and fish (or animals) ..all in the same system. you grow plants, plants get fed to fish, fish piss in water, plants eat fish piss , fish and plants die, fungus eats dead stuff breaks down everything and becomes plant food, cleans water. also need the fungus for the oxy / co2 production and balance. plants need co2 to grow. they must have it. in fact to grow at max rate with hydro they need 4 times as much as natural on earth. fungus makes co2 . uses some oxygen. you cant just use people. to grow a room of crops you need alot more,,plus the whole system needs buffers. and like the actor said...you need a ton of living bacteria. you cant break down ammonium nitrogen into nitrate nitrogen with out bacteria ie..plants wont grow. and thats just 1 example. to keep alot of living bacteria you cant go messing with any more then a small % of the system. like in a fish tank,,you dont change more then 1/2 the water..or you kill the fish.

[@sallyshipwreck4315]

Love your series! And I love the series for high lighting a Plant Guy.

[@miles2378]

8:18 bobbie could have mistaken the east/hudson rivers for the sea/ocean and the mars embesy is in manhaten.

[@MikeAben]

I just got pointed towards your channel. Very nice. I'll definitely be watching your other episodes here. I like the balance you struck between the science and the realities of production. Maybe you've already gone here, but discussions on what is scientifically wrong is also illuminating, and I think not disrespectful to the show especially when combined with why the show may have gone that direction (your low gravity discussion leans this way). For example, and I've had this discussion on other forums, heat radiation on the ships of The Expanse seems a complete mystery and largely ignored. Once again, great job. I'm looking forward to more.

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Thanks for watching. I think they leave a lot of solutions vague or just assumed in many cases. There's an advantage to that because there is so much science and engineering that would need to be done to get to that point. They obviously have gotten there, but we don't know the solution yet. Giving a pseudo-science answer is usually worse IMO than just leaving it unaddressed. The ships have some interesting dynamics both in terms of thermal properties and radiation resistance. The ships are obviously made of some super-material, which would make sense at that point. It could be argued it seems magically resistant to neutronic radiation as well from the engines. :)

[@hogfry]

#mytheory I think a martial art would have 2 distinct modes of fighting. Grappling and transfer of momentum. I think being able to create and then impart large amounts of momentum to your opponent would be an extremely practical way to fight in minimal or null gravity. I'd expect to see lots of charges and lifting maneuvers meant to break an opponents connection to the ground. Since the time spent airborne could leave them extremely vulnerable.

[@mbe102]

"Grab your #cannedchicken". Ahh, I always look forward to these after watching the episodes. Its awesome stuff dude, truly!

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Thanks!

[@mbe102]

Are you planning on doing the first season and rest of the Season 2 episodes when this season is done?

[@LetsDoTheScience]

I'll probably go back and do particular features like spinning up Ceres, The Drive system etc. Some shows on space based weapons seen so far and tactics as well.

[@tonycamas9747]

Awesome as always #cannedchicken. One thing I hoped you might have addressed was Alex's Zero G drinking scene. A number of people have commented that, no matter how much care he took to cover the can when moving it, etc., Alex would not have been able to get the beer out of the cans into his mouth. Knowing how much effort the people who make the show put into getting the gravity stuff (especially) right, I thought that was probably wrong, but I don't know enough about it to say that with any certainty. Any comment on that?

[@RafaelFigueredo87]

On the manga GUNNM from Yukito Kishiro also called "Battle Angel Alita" there are cyborg martials arts developed to fight on zero or low gravity. The strongest of such cyborg martial arts is called "Panzer Kunst".

[@davistud]

I was looking for panzer kunst

[@MrRainjunky]

What I love best about Ceres is the bird that appears from time to time. It doesn't say a word but by the way it fly`s and hovers, even sitting in the air sometimes, it gives enough hint of lower gravity that the viewer takes in. A brilliant touch. For my money (and I cant say for sure as never been in zero g) in low g unarmed combat Aikido would come into its own as at heart its about channeling energy. Which is strange because its one of the least effective martial arts in life. Ju-jitsu`s and judo`s throws, chokes and arm locks would be less effective I think and more limited. Brazilian ju-jutsu and wrestling based skills (so useful in life) would perhaps be of even less effect as they are ground work based and rely on leverage, using a floor as a base. Strikes would never go out of fashion but be adapted and resemble whip like motions from the shoulder or elbow rather than a full bodied punch. they would connect using edge of hand, finger, fingers, and outer hand rather than a punch (but even one of them from Amos would make you think). Even if the blow has just the weight of an arm or hand behind it, if delivered to a vital spot it could still be effective. A finger in the eye will put a crimp in anyone`s day. As regards weapons well anything sharp or blunt used well is still gonna work in space. And the "push" will become a real match changer. If you can anchor yourself to a wall and push an opponent away they aint gonna stop until they hit that door frame or air lock you aimed them at. as regards firearms, never shot one in my life so wouldn't know.

[@FieryWACO]

I believe that bird was mechanical, made by the same guy that made Julie Mao's gerbil.

[@JeremiahMcCoy]

#cannedchicken Knife fighting, when done by people who know what they are doing, is about causing blood loss, more than direct damage. You cut and stab until the opponent is leaking so much blood that they pass out and die. Instant knife kills can happen, but they are not common or likely. It is not like a sword or axe, which does largely crushing damage. I don't know what blood loss in low g would look like. Do you bleed as fast without gravity? The heart rate and blood pressure is part of it, but I honestly can't figure out if that would affect the rate of blood loss due to a bad cut. In null g, the blood would pool and stick to objects, like the combatants, but you really don't want floating fluids in large quantities hitting electronics that might be controlling your thruster burn.

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Blood has the same surface tension as water. So it would be a significant problem in zero G for sure even just a bloody nose would pool up potentially. If it were to happen inside your helmet it could be a serious choking hazard too. Check out this video on tears in space. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmSZqZuqpdxjgsk

[@JeremiahMcCoy]

Yeah. That is an issue. Another reason why violence in space is impractical and unwise. Jujitsu, Judo and a number of other joint lock forms also rely on gravity to be effective. A wrist lock is painful, but by itself, it is hard to maintain. That is why it is combined with moving someone to a position where they can't get any leverage. When I can literally rotate in air, that leverage changes pretty easily. Whole new kinds of hold would have to be invented. Soft tissue grabbing maybe? If have a strong grip and I dig it deep into the muscle and viscera and twist, well that is damage that doesn't rely on my mass or gravity. Hard to do, but maybe. Hard bony strikes at high speed actually works. While you rely on your hips and gravity to throw powerful punches, a very fast moving bit of barely covered bone is going to hurt a lot. Can't get as much power, but speed is its own kind of power. Quick elbow or knee could hurt a lot. I don't suppose we can convince people to taking up playing rock paper scissors to resolve conflicts? Less messy and don't have to invent as much.

[@benbelt5849]

Swords aren't "mostly crushing" at least with well made blades and proper edge alignment by the wielder

[@TheSmuey]

I think, after almost 5 full seasons, that by now we can conclude we don't have to question how accurate the series actually is. I think we can pretty safely assume it just is as the attention to detail up to now is absolutely insane.

[@LeeCarlson]

Steven Barnes wrote a series of wonderful books, starting with "Street Lethal" in which the protagonist (Aubrey Knight) is trained in a form of zero-gee combat that he calls "null-boxing."

[@jimthompson939]

Where you at mate? These videos make a great channel but the last video was two years ago, please keep it going, I am watching and subscribing.

[@yanvincent8217]

I love your videos and I'm wondering what is your scientific background or formation?

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Microbiology by education and IT for a very long time now.

[@chrism7395]

#mytheory I imagine hand to hand in microgravity would take the form of grapples and the pressure points like those used in self defense. If you wanted to do serious damage then I guess you'd have to resort to choke holds so possibly in the future there would be some kind of legislation making choking or strangulation a more serious form of assault (ABH vs GBH). Growing crops and creating oxygen from them in a sealed environment like on Ganymede has been attempted before now - NASA's Biosphere 2 project which was largely successful, there's a really interesting book by one of the crew (Dr Mark Nelson) called 'Pushing Our Limits - Insights from Biosphere 2' if anyone wants further reading on it. I imagine Ganymede used hydroponics as they need to produce food on an industrial scale to make it viable. I think I'm correct in saying that in the books Ganymede is the bread basket because it has a magnetic field to protect against radiation and a much smaller gravity well compared to Earth or Mars (makes it cheaper to import all that #cannedchicken)

[@lb2791]

I'm still not convinced producing food like it's shown in the show makes a lot of sense. First with the kind of power humanity can produce with fusion reactors it shouldn't be nessessary to use sunlight, just produce electricity and power artificial lighting with it. Also I don't see the need to grow vascular plants when it comes to nutritional value. Just grow single cell algae, bacteria or fungii in water, with a bit of genome editing they should provide all the nutrients humans need a lot more effectively than by growing vascular plants.

[@iamMichaelB]

canned chicken that scene of bobbie draper finally seeing an ocean - i got choked up & i'm a guy

[@hmurdock]

You can see some zero-g jiu-jitsu in the movie Inception, even though its not in space.

[@Valkyrinator]

sidearms in space: In the books, bullets are mini rockets and provide negligible recoil.

[@Covebrewery]

#mytheory late to reply here- but martial arts in space I'd assume would look similar to the scenes in the movie inception when they are in a free falling/tumbling car, causing the 'next dream level' to adapt its lowered g & spinning inertia in a hallway fight. There are multiple points where Joseph Gordon Levitt begins using bjj manuevers while also using various walls ect as leverage & launch points. The things youd have to account for in 0g combat vs lowered would be bjj prone positions possibly becoming a danger due to environmental surroundings. Weapon wise, id see stun batons being highly effective, especially when used for joint locking and arrest techniques in low G, but 0g id question any efficacy with hand to hand outside of bjj.

[@Covebrewery]

#cannedchicken . I wanna know the science of what that obssession is about

[@lesmoor001]

whens seasons 2 coming to the uk ?

[@benfredericson9467]

I love your work. Thank you for the effort! #cannedchicken

[@McCbobbish]

I would imagine that low G hand to hand would takr quite a bit from the underwater hand to hand techniques that the SEALS and similar use.

[@carlcox7332]

When are we gonna get some breakdowns of season 3?

[@vedranbileta8346]

#cannedchicken Another amazing video. Please continue! Btw, you should know this. Why The Expanse is the best sci-fi on TV at the moment (and of of best ever). Because they really pay attention to details, so much that they make an apology in advance when they realize that they screwed something up. Please do mention this in the next episode analysis, as they are really trying. Also, minor spoilers (as is the next episode). But nothing crucial www.danielabraham.com/2017/04/04/guest-post-losing-science-drama-finding-drama-science/

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Thanks for adding that and for watching. I try to point out when they depart from science for narrative reasons. That's completely understandable and I like very much that it's often a conscious decision rather than a lazy one on their part. Pacing, narrative and all that matter as well as not confusing viewers are all important and I don't begrudge them correctly. In my show I mostly try to stick to "isn't this neat" kind of things. I never want to get pedantic or be a jerk about pointing things out and I try to check myself that if I can begin a fact with by saying "Well actually.... " then that's probably passive aggressive and I'm on the wrong track. I love the show runners and the fans of The Expanse because they mostly seem to have that "isn't this just cool" mentality about it all. Thanks again for watching and commenting.

[@vedranbileta8346]

It is completely understandable and I do agree with you. But I find really nice that they went all this length to explain their screw-up. I forgot to ask you one thing. When Bobbie did fall.. quite a drop I would say, she is not hurt or anything. Even better/worse, she starts to run almost immediately. Can you provide me with scientific explanation, or is this a minor mistake. It kinda killed the immersion, after they made such a good scene with an escape planning.

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Hmm, it was a long fall. I'm not sure what mistake you felt was made though? She landed hard and it seemed strange to me that she wasn't hurt, force increases with the square of the mass so landing on earth would be WAY harder than landing on Mars like that. Granted they train at 1G all the time but I shrugged a bit because injuries like that are more about the smaller muscles that hold all the bones and organs in place, which aren't generally worked out. When it comes to the biology, it's hard to say. I have personally fallen 20 feet before without being injured seriously. It knocked the wind out of me and I was sore fir a week or so but it didn't seriously injure me. She fell from it looks like 10 feet. Initially the roof she fell into may have some give, the concrete on the bottom not so much. Again, I would chalk it up to understandable narrative choices. They did a good job really selling the force of the impact and likely didn't have time to linger on her while she lay there stunned and needed to move the story forward. I'd also point out that setting wise we know they take drugs regularly as it is in space and she's on a whole battery of additional drugs on earth. It's easy to imagine she's got some kind of anti-inflammatory in her system normally, may even have some low grade pain blocker as an implant in the military. Extending that thought out even more, we know she broke her arm on Ganymede and was doing pushups with the cast on so they obviously have some active biologic that deals with pain and broken bones right away. Given all that I feel it's reasonable what they showed. Battlefield medicine 300 years in the future likely includes some kind of implanted autodoc.

[@vedranbileta8346]

Oh that was fast :) Yes, that was exactly what I was thinking. As the fall was hard (and it should be worse for a Martian in 1G environment). But she was, as you said under the drugs, which nullified some of the pain. Maybe there is some way to strengthen the bones. Future medicine used for the military, and perhaps workers in some dangerous occupations? Also the roof probably had some role in cushioning the impact. But I would still prefer to see her not running, but perhaps walking. Running was a bit too much. But again, I am nitpicking here. This is what happens when the show is selling science so well, that you start to over-analyze every detail. Oh, and OUCH. 20 feet? That's what, 7 meters? wow

[@laurenanderson61]

@@vedranbileta8346 I thought the same thing. In Earth's gravity there's no way she could have walked away uninjured! Certainly if I fell like that I"d break every bone in my body. Edit: Okay now I've read your discussion.

[@wnose]

If they have fusion energy, then why do they need the mirrors for light? LED light would be perfectly adequate for growing crops.

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Very true. I wasn't trying to debate doing it that way so much as how they expressed doing it. but yes, we have great growing lamps without fusion power. Generating power seems to be a solved issue. It's a bit of a rabbit hole to pick apart the logic because you have to wonder why go out to Ganymede at all? Why not just grow it on mars, or on a station. Anything closer to where the people are.

[@gavinkemp7920]

easy space. you need a substantial amount of space to produce food for one human you need at minimum 0.07 hectars of 7000 square meters supposing the most optimal condition with little food variety and only plants. the world average is about 0.25 and westerner it 0.5. 0.25 seem like a good target even with effective vertical farming let say 10 stacks you we still need 2500 m² per inhabitant. that is not available on the space station or the smaller asteroid and would require a lot of ressource to drill the space on the larger asteroids. but i agree they would probably not use mirrior ad would certainly not lock them down with epstien drive (very inefficiente) they more likely use fancy orbits and electrique powered attitude control system like gyroscpes to orient them.

[@orrithoreggertsson3000]

Why don't they just use aeroponics?

[@joeyjojojunior1794]

I can't believe you got Seth Rogen to narrate your videos! /S

[@jerrybolt3241]

Keep the good work. #cannedchicken

[@LetsDoTheScience]

Thanks

[@KalashnikovPaouzzi]

Dont the books mention that Julie Mao is trained in low g Kung fu or something like that and that s how she deals with rapy belters.

[@them8tysibulba]

Damn I could use some #cannedchicken right now

[@XxSPFanx]

Going to buy my Flat Bush lake front property now. #cannedchicken

[@barreloffun10]

Low G or zero G (meh, prefer the term "weightlessness") firearms? How about the gyrojet?infogalactic.com/info/Gyrojet

[@BLAZE084]

Canned chicken still tastes good in 2021.

[@CABOOSEBOB]

So you’re saying khabib would be even more unstoppable

[@Anlushac11]

hydroponics doesnt require soil. Water is easy to make, soil would be more expensive to transport.

[@Bloodynine606]

"The station is fucked"

[@ttomkatt1]

#CannedChicken

[@varun009]

#cannedchicken

[@user-jp6vt2lz8z]

#cannedchicken

[@CircusOfFive]

#cannedchicken