Let’s roll…a Magic User! Character generation and development in BECMI Dungeons and Dragons

[@rogernummerdor]

Wizard was my primary class in the old BECMI days. Its a hard class to play well, but once you learn to plan ahead and always have an escape plan, things get a lot better. I, eventually, became that one player that could somehow survive (almost) anything. Its sorta funny. My party members were always ecstatic when I would escape, particularly when I saved enough of their characters to raise(or their favorite magic item). These days when I tell these stories to new 5E players they just say "You wouldn't have died if you just stayed and fought."

[@PatricRogers]

Yah, 5e is a different game with the same window dressing. I'm trying to play a Wizard in a 5e game this year, and anything other than direct damage spells are pretty much superfluous, as the average fight is less than 3 rounds. Battlefield control with fog cloud, web, or stinking cloud? Why bother, since it just interferes with the melee wonks? Sigh.

[@justinboyett8843]

"you wouldn't have died if you stayed and fought" ... That is funny.

[@docsavage8640]

Because 5e is superheroes on easy mode

[@Jay-ql4gp]

Walking out of the tavern on your way to the dungeon with a 1st level Magic-User carried with it a special kind of dread. While I'm thinking of it, I have seen a 1st ed Magic-User not ten minutes old walk out of a tavern, trip, and die from fall damage. The DM did let him keep playing, but it was a good laugh. The best 1st ed Magi-User I've ever seen was Azurax Silverhawk in the module Threshold of Evil from Dungeon issue #10 which features him on the cover with two green Slaadi. It really does do the best job of answering the question, "What would a high level wizard do with his tower given the time, money, and resources?" It is truly excellent. Please check it out if you haven't already.

[@docsavage8640]

I call b.s. That's just a bad DM. he DM chose to make him trip and kill him for laughs.

[@RB-sz9gv]

Love the frailty of BECMI characters. It’s a DEADLY world and the best REALITY in gaming.

[@AXSLA3]

Imagine that one of the apprentices you attract is called...Bargle!

[@docsavage8640]

It's a fairly common name in the Known World. Don't judge all Bargles based on one incident!

[@AXSLA3]

@@docsavage8640 I would only make that comment while talking about BECMI. I don't judge people by their names...if I did my personal situation by now would be more poorer.

[@erictiso9315]

Another great overview of the class. I loved playing magic users. They can be fragile at the start, but can develop into formidable characters!

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

My groups Magic Users always start with Read Magic as a freebie, after all how can they get spells at "school" without knowing it?

[@becmiberserker]

Always has been a point of debate. Thanks for watching!

[@Bluecho4]

I do appreciate that later editions just assumed the Wizard had whatever abilities were necessary to BE a Wizard, such as reading magic. Making you spend a precious spell on "Read Magic" seems very much like a "air-breathing mermaids" problem: an "option" that exists only to make the player pay for something their character should probably have for free.

[@davidtauriainen9116]

A BECMI magic user without Read Magic is like a fighter without hands. Never attaining new spells would prevent all progression. The DM rulebook page 18 states "The first spell given should always be Read Magic"

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

@@becmiberserkerReally do enjoy your stuff mate!

[@phildicks4721]

Yeah, I do the same. Very low level mages are already squishy. They need at least onee break to help them survive to mid level. And its not like having Read Magic at the begining is going to break the game.

[@ObatongoSensei]

I would have given Felonius some unusual weapon masteries, such as in blowguns and thrown things. Since he has the alchemy skill, producing bizarre splash weapons to throw or poisons to put on darts would have been useful. That can also save spells and can be more discreet as an opening surprise attack.

[@becmiberserker]

Nice imagination there!

[@davidbrennan660]

Word, low level Magic Users have to think sideways and not be a one trick pony.

[@ObatongoSensei]

@@davidbrennan660 Literally one-trick... Once fired that lonely first level spell, if you do not have something else up your sleeve, you are only dead weight at first level... Very dead, if you can only use a dagger. Although, it happened to me a magic user player that actually defeated a fighter in duel, sword vs dagger. The almost dead fighter, which didn't even scratch the wizard, failed his morale check and tried to flee, only to end up dead against the doorframe with the wizard's dagger accurately thrown and stuck between his shoulderblades.

[@docsavage8640]

You're supposed to use that high Intelligence score and all those extra languages to be useful beyond spellcasting. Lots of players only think about combat ability.

[@CowCommando]

I've never played BECMI, but your delving into the magical creation rules reminded me of my 3.5 edition cleric. I went all out with magic item creation feats. I had several wands and scroll cases full of contingency spells like water breathing, air walk, neautralize poison, and cure spells, so I could tailor my memorized spells to whatever I wanted without giving up any utility. My greatest creation was a Staff of Heal that came in clutch saving a few other characters' lives. Anyway, I totally understand the joy of discovering a whole new aspect to a game you already like and the strange fun of poring over tables of options to see what shenanigans your character can make. DM reluctant to let you adventure for or buy a particular item? Spend the effort to make it yourself. They're much more likely to let you have it when they don't have to figure out a quest or a shop to add to the world to make it available.

[@becmiberserker]

Although 3.5 overwhelmed me in the end, with its endless splat books, I do have a nostalgic soft spot for it. Item creation was well explored and it was fun to play. I never liked the body slot thing though, although I understood it as a limiting control.

[@CowCommando]

@@becmiberserker Oh yeah, I definitely limited what books I picked up and allowed used at my table. It was too much to allow everything even without the broken combos all the options allowed.

[@spartaninvirginia]

Big fan of adding Goblin as a known language for PCs. Good choice.

[@docsavage8640]

💯 I've found it more useful than learning Elf, Dwarf, etc. Goblins are ubiquitous at low levels and smart enough that you can parley

[@Gashren]

Very nice video series! It really shows the path a BECMI character may take. Good job!

[@wilm3864]

Another good addition to the series.

[@double_edged]

Great video! Thinking of running my next campaign in BECMI instead of 5e.

[@becmiberserker]

Go for it! Thanks for watching.

[@BDSquirrel]

In my opinion, it would improve the game greatly. Though, some of your players might not be happy without the JRPG elements being in there like fighters magically healing themselves in the middle of combat.

[@docsavage8640]

The players might get upset about not playing on easy mode anymore, but that's a great way to weed out the players you don't want in your game

[@lanepianta3624]

Another very helpful video. Thank you!!

[@Alpha9ZX]

Thinking about it, if one of the other players is a Fighter who has managed to acquire a domain to rule, being a Magist who has to act for the *ruler's* interest isn't too much of a problem.

[@CowCommando]

That does come with the opportunity cost that financing from your patron is costing someone in the party instead of costing an NPC. However, it's probably easier to justify the expense and more directly benefits the party in return. I like the idea overall, especially if the Mage player doesn't want to deal with having their own domain and the fighter player doesn't mind essentially doing it for them both.

[@robbabcock_]

Great video! I'm more into AD&D but these BECMI videos are a fun blast from the past.🧙🔥🙌

[@becmiberserker]

Glad you like them!

[@mrvampire7577]

I remember back in the early 80s running blind into dungeons with 4hp, no armour and one magic missile.

[@docsavage8640]

That's on you for not bringing hirelings and henchmen or at least a party of PCs

[@AXSLA3]

A friend of mine made his magic-user (already 20th level or more) more corageous than it was good for him. Good thing the cleric had a fully charged ressurection staff, because that M-U fell in a number of traps without letting any other character to intervene before it was too late. So I get my friend was growing fed-up with his character, although very powerful at that time. (This happened about 35 years ago).

[@CaptCook999]

I was always a Thief player. My only mage was a 1st edition MU/Thief. She got to 7th lvl mage before I moved and no longer played. I really always wanted to play an Illusionist and can't wait to see a video on that. But I don't believe they had those in BECMI.

[@andrewhaldenby4949]

Outstanding ty. Really sets out how PCs develop during the BECMI game

[@BDSquirrel]

Makes me remember my AD&D Forgotten Realms Invoker. Managed to get up to 9th level and had some pretty sweet gear for himself. His invocation spells, like Fireball and Lightning Bolt, were harder to save against due to his specialization. However, he couldn't cast any Charm/Enchantment spells as they were in opposition of his specialization. He was able to do spell research and make new spells, but that got cut off due to life stuff and the campaign has been in limbo ever since.

[@becmiberserker]

Maybe one day…

[@BDSquirrel]

@@becmiberserker I would have to get in touch with my old DM and see about getting the gang together.

[@tohitAC0]

​@@BDSquirrel2nd or 1st edition?

[@BDSquirrel]

@@tohitAC0 2nd edition. Mainly what the DM had. We still had some 1st edition books and used a little from them.

[@tohitAC0]

@@BDSquirrel that's awesome, I had an invoker in 2e also. Still have the character sheet. Was my favorite specialty wizard class.

[@Arnsteel634]

I would have put the 16 on strength and pushed towards grandmaster staff.

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

If he came up in a monastery and is a dynamic pianist, he could be Felonious Monk. 😊

[@urfaes6878]

I'm really enjoying this series. I don't know if any DM has tried this (but, given how long BECMI has been around, it's likely). The party could be the Magus's followers. So, I'd totally allow 15th level followers if they levelled up from 5th. Curious that it does not include Thief. You'd think a treasure hunting Magus could use a good Thief.

[@becmiberserker]

Glad you’re enjoying the series!

[@Frolmaster]

I played a magic user several years up to 21st level. Our last module was the Test of Warlords. I have no idea if we went far into it because we ended up battling each other on battlefield. I won, settling the matter with a well placed Meteor Swarm! Then our DM decided to up the game to 36th level, just to see what it would look like. We had a lot of fun. Wizards can be very powerful.

[@Fr.O.G.]

i like felonius

[@michaelsgrenjensen4807]

Hej. Thanks for another informative and entertaining video. I've been looking forward to this mage video as it's the character I like the most and have played the most. I particularly liked the twist on a charismatic magician with many followers. Also, I liked your example of magical crafting. The way you give examples with calculations makes it easy and clear to understand. I have read a lot about that part myself. I would love if you made a video specifically about magic crafting. It would give the adventures some new unique quests when they have to go out and collect gold, gems and other rare items for fantastic magical items (dragon teeth, vampire fangs, unicorn horns, storm giant toenails etc.) Many greetings Michael

[@becmiberserker]

It’s on the list!

[@ForTheGoldenOak]

I've been waiting!

[@m.a.packer5450]

To make intelligence more useful in BECMI, I added a house rule where you make an intelligence roll that functions mechanically like a strength roll, where success allows you to solve a complex puzzle or recall lore about something (DM still decides of they have a chance of knowing something)

[@somekindofdude1130]

You should do a video about all magic options within the BECMI game spells and special magic skills

[@RoninCatholic]

I'm making an NPC mage who is a halfling-sized chinchilla with a little red cape and pointy hat. He specializes in debilitating conditions and quick escapes from no-longer-favorable situations. His name is Fizzbargle the Agitating. The setting isn't BECMI/Known World and isn't Krynn, but I figured little Easter eggs like that might be appreciated if anyone noticed.

[@CountLuciferLeviatha]

This is awesome! I am communicating with my group on rolling up their characters and these videos are super helpful and informative!

[@becmiberserker]

Glad it was helpful. 🙂

[@midshipman8654]

these are very good practical examples of character creation and progression. Also really captures the imagination. Always wanted to set up my own tower and dungeon and make my own masterwork creations like Filonius. I think ill direct players to these videos if we get around to playing becmi.

[@becmiberserker]

@@midshipman8654 Thank you!

[@anarionelendili8961]

A Thought on the Bonus XP: Given that at below name levels (9th), the needed XP per level is exponential, the Bonus XP doesn't really matter. However, after the name level it comes to its own, since the XP per level doesn't increase anymore, but stays level. Thus, Bonus XP actually gives you extra levels, one level per +-10% per 1.5 million XP. At 1.5 MXP earned: -20% : 1.2 MXP = level 15 -10%: 1.35 MXP = level 16 0%: 1.5 MXP = level 17 +5%: 1.575 MXP = level 17 still +10% : 1.65 MXP = level 18 But yeah, it is seriously not as big of a deal as people make it out to be at low levels.

[@Thkaal]

No as I recall it's Rod staff wand as a saving throw and spell as a separate saving throw yeah something happened between the two basic editions that I have

[@retrodmray]

AWESOME! Thank you, sir! 🤓👊

[@davidbrennan660]

Interesting stuff.

[@DamianTheAlien]

Fewest hit points? Not up to 9th level. I can't wait till you get to the Thief class.

[@becmiberserker]

It’s next. 🙂

[@TallerHalfling]

... but are there Berserkers in BECMI? :)

[@EriktheRed2023]

There is, as it happens. :) They are in the section for monsters. They have Morale of 12, and thus never fail morale rolls. They never retreat or surrender. And they are so ferocious in battle they get +2 to hit.

[@becmiberserker]

Yup. What Erik said. And based on that, if you wanted one of your players to be a Berserk, you might give them +2 to their attacks, and maybe damage, and be immune to fear for a duration. I think if I was doing this, I would allow one to become Berserk once a day. I’d review it at higher levels depending on how it works.

[@TallerHalfling]

Cool! Didn't know that ! I love B/X [like LL and OSE] , haven't read the originals tho...

[@iancorrie7043]

another cool video.great work.Just was curious to ask what you think of Labyrinth Lord,I? bought it recently and it looks pretty much like B/X in all but name.

[@becmiberserker]

It pretty much is. I think it used to be referred to as a retroclone, because I guess it is. You can play that and pretty much get the BECMI experience, but without the high level dominion stuff, and I don’t think weapon mastery is in there either, but it’s all about what’s important for your group.

[@hallavast]

Has any character actually made a gargoyle with these rules? 18,000 gp for a 4HD construct seems rather steep. And how effective will that guardian be considering you must be at least 18th level? And there is a strong chance you could fail and it would cost double or triple? This wizard is a mad wizard. Classic.

[@becmiberserker]

“This wizard is a mad wizard.” That had me laughing! 👍

[@theproteanbro5994]

So how do I survive untill I have spells and henchmen to rely on?

[@zantharian57]

This was really well done and created a neat story of Felonius, but what I don't understand is WHY he created gargoyles and iron golems for his tower, is his tower really being attacked that often? If so, why even have one? Wouldnt it be better to spend his gold on obtaining higher AC robes or more powerful magical items for his own survival while he's actually playing the game? When the player of Felonius sits down at the table is he really just spending all his time in his tower? what are the other players in his party doing while he sits around creating things. This is the part of BECMI that I don't understand.. thanks!

[@kyzer42]

A magic-user would want a tower as a base of operations and, importantly, a place to work on projects like creating magic items. At high levels, I'd imagine the other player characters have their own long-term projects they'd be working on, so the players and DM would probably resolve those at the start of each session, then proceed with whatever adventure or challenge the party finds themselves facing. BECMI Berserker has a good summary of the Companion rules on his channel that goes over the process for running PCs' domain-level projects.

[@EriktheRed2023]

If a player of mine wants their PC to take a few months off to (try to) create a magical item or construct, there are various options. One is that the player picked that option because they won't be playing for a while. This gives their PC a reason to also be absent. More often, they have a second or third character they want to play. When you're playing in the old way, you often end up with PCs of very different levels. Some players will want to play in more games, and to fit in, they often make additional PCs. Also, it is not unusual to make several PCs at low level, just so you have someone to switch to if your 3hp mage gets targeted by an orc despite everyone's best intentions. So you could end up with more options with skill and luck.

[@becmiberserker]

Thanks for the comment. There’s no stipulation that those constructs must stay at the tower. They could even be accompanying him! As for other creations, they can of course be made, I just demonstrated constructs. And as for time spent doing this rather than adventuring, this is activity done between adventures. In old school D&D, the format was far more episodic, meaning the adventurers would go “home” and do things, rather than remaining in adventure mode all the time, which is what seems to happen in later editions. The period spent at home is an arbitrary length of time between adventures. So, when the next adventure starts, a DM might say, “Okay, three months pass and a messenger arrives from the Duke…” The DM would then ask what you have been doing in the previous three months, which might consist of weapon mastery advancement, item creation, or even just tending to your domain. I hope this explanation helps.

[@drmann15]

Too bad Felonious never did a sabbatical in Glantri. Enjoyed the video as always

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

Personally I would have swapped CHA and DEX, you NEED that AC bonus.

[@becmiberserker]

Felonius values diplomacy over violence. :)

[@merethif]

Can you even swap abilities value in BECMI?

[@becmiberserker]

@@merethif Strict RAW, no. But, it’s your game. 😊

[@Bluecho4]

Why have AC when you have six high-morale meat shields?

[@tomasziskierka9557]

Did anyone even got to 36 level ? In later editions it is hard to get level 20.

[@bigbake132]

You forgot his Weapon Mastery slots. Not super important for a Magic User, but still.

[@becmiberserker]

@@bigbake132 Hello. I think I state near the beginning of the video that I won’t be doing weapon mastery as I focus on magical item creation. Anyway, I appreciate you watching.

[@bigbake132]

@@becmiberserker Oh sorry! My bad, I guess I missed that part. Would you still give the magic user the two Weapon Master slots? I'm making a BECMI magic user right now and feel like having him be skilled with dagger doesn't make sense. I feel like they should only get 1 WM slot instead of the 2. What do you think?

[@becmiberserker]

@ I definitely would. Being handy in melee can always be useful.

[@edcrichton9457]

He would have been more OP if he had access to Glantri.