Let's talk about San Martin watches

[@TopTierTicker]

San Martin has very kindly provided TTT viewers an exclusive discount code. Use TOPTIER0129 for $40 off.

[@jaimemello17]

Let me start off that I am a huge fan of your channel. Love your wit and your very candid assessment of watches and brands 👍. Without a doubt SM have a majority of homage watches in the catalog. As you stated their quality is absolutely superb! I have a Seiko 62mas homage that I absolutely love. But they have also been working on introducing their own designs as well. I think what’s significant is that I think we are starting to seek SM starting to get acknowledged by people like yourself and other established KZbinrs for their exceptional quality. So I think it is also forcing other microbrands to be mindful of quality and their price points. In addition the big brands (seiko, tissot, citizen, swatch) should be put on watch because for the price points of SM’s you can probably get a watch of equal or better quality of the big brands at cost cheaper than the bigger brands.

[@haveugotriz4983]

Is this applicable on their official website or AliExpress?

[@ihmpall]

It doesn’t work on AliExpress

[@bartekwesolowski4506]

This is a watch with a black or blue dial? SN0129

[@johncaron4888]

Outside of watch lovers and collectors, nobody is going to know that this watch is based off of a Grand Seiko.

[@TopTierTicker]

Correct! But I wear watches because they make me smile when I look down at them. Those little moments of joy throughout the day, yano?

[@aesric]

Yes, nobody

[@meinolf153]

Based on the Tag Heuer Formula 1, which was also the inspiration for the Grand Seiko. The logo is inspired by the Tag Heuer logo too.

[@alisterwh]

I guess that's exactly what San Martin is exploiting, yes

[@rahulwbijlani]

I think this is a bit harsh to be honest. Clearly the watch is inspired by the Grand Seiko, but the hands, indices, bracelet (albeit that is a Rolex design, but let's face it everyone uses it) and dial treatment are all different enough. Would you feel empty wearing a Christopher Ward 12 because its so similar to a Zenith Sykline or a Czapek? The similarities are undeniable, but I think there are enough differences. Does the Black Bay monochrome give "a hollow feeling" because its a vintage sub with snowflake hour/second hands? Could you not enjoy a GP Laureato because of its clear inspiration, the AP Royal Oak? I could go on- my point is that most watches are effectively remixes of classic designs, and I think San Martin do that pretty well. I personally prefer their version to the GS, which makes it worthwhile in my book. I agree the San Martin brand is nothing to be excited by, but if you're concerned primarily about design, then what's the difference between this SM and various other cheap alternatives to classic watches- eg. the Cartier tank- that you've mentioned here in a positive light?

[@TopTierTicker]

I find it fascinating how so many people are so passionate regarding this. I just don't think the watch is that exciting? I have no clue whether I'd feel empty wearing the watches you mention... I haven't worn them.

[@laurencehogg6010]

I've made a very similar comment to this; yours is more measured than mine however. If you look at the replies you and I have recieved, it's clear he doesn't get it - he thinks we somehow need to 'defend' the SM watch when we're simply pointing out that other much more direct homage watches have been presented in a much more postive light. I don't think he has any idea he's doing it.

[@TopTierTicker]

@@laurencehogg6010like I've already said to you. I've recommended homage watches, I will continue to recommend homage watches. I don't think that my opinion is better than all. I respect that different people enjoy different things. Hence why I talk about a wide range of watches on the channel. You seem to think you have this 'gotcha' moment because I've recommended the Baltany VC. Watch the review on the watch. I call it what it is, a copycat. But I give it credit for its quality. Just like I have in this video to San Martin.

[@rahulwbijlani]

@@TopTierTicker Thanks for the reply, though it doesn’t really address my point as I’m sure you’re aware. I was pointing out that the reasons you give for your feelings in this instance don’t seem to apply consistently to all watches. I think there is an interesting debate to be had- about the nature of watch design, brand values and emotions- by digging into this, and was seeking to give you the opportunity to do so. But then again, if all you’re saying is ‘I like some homage watches but not this one’, perhaps not.

[@TopTierTicker]

@@rahulwbijlani correct. Feelings are dynamic and often don't make sense. Take the Steinhart submariner copy, does nothing for me. Take a Pagani submariner copy, does nothing for me. Invicta pro diver, kinda like it. I don't know why, maybe it's the details, I don't know. It has a charm about it. Would I buy one for my collection? Nope. Would I wear one? Probably not. Would I buy one as a gift for a family member? Already have. People seem to want to apply blanket statements and opinions across everything. Everything has to be consistent and in line. But emotional interests like this are so much more diverse than that. It's possible to enjoy things that looks very similar completely differently. That's where we come onto this watch. I don't dislike it because it's a homage watch. I dislike it because the design just doesn't appeal to me. Just like the design of the GS doesn't appeal to me either. I can appreciate what a watch offers without wanting to wear it. I can dislike the design of a watch whilst respecting what it delivers. My final verdict of this watch was simple. This watch is ridiculous quality for $300 but I think it's a bit boring. Maybe a different dial design changes that, different colours. Again, dynamic.

[@felipem.c.9967]

The problem is that i don't see the same level of criticism to non-aliexpress brands when they build designs that are heavily inspired by other watches. Islander, Smiths, Steinhart...the list goes on. Even brands considered "original" have so many similarities to iconic watches that it's difficult to say they are not homages as well.

[@TopTierTicker]

I can't speak for other reviewers but I do also criticise said brands for the same things. It's when the brands main business is completely ripping off others... It's just not what I like to see.

[@felipem.c.9967]

@@TopTierTicker Yeah, I was not saying that about you specifically. I was referring to youtubers in general. Your content and opinions are always interesting!

[@NCSheriff7]

Copying just a few elements and mixing them like the watches from Dan Henry, Lorier and so on arent ripoffs like chinese brands like san martin. Be fair.

[@felipem.c.9967]

@@NCSheriff7 I agree that the ones you're mentioning are not blatant copies. They are quite original (albeit inspired by other watches). Still, I believe islander and steinhart are not original at all and dont get 10% of the hate san martin, pagani or steeldive get

[@Ballahooligan1]

@@TopTierTicker so that's an admission that as long as they're doing hommages, you can't endorse them for their original designs? And please don't fall into the trap of thinking that the comments here are full of San Martin devotees being defensive (I don't own one), it's just that you're not presenting your argument very well. But you're getting lots of comments, and that's what this is about, right?

[@alfredthegreat9543]

Thing is, nearly every watch released now is an homage of something- either by the same company, looking at you Rolex, or from another. It's because a watch is a small item and has a function it needs to perform so there are only so many variations possible. There are very few truly original watches.

[@TopTierTicker]

I see this argument all the time and I find it a bit silly. San Martins' Main business is making 1 for 1 copies of other models. Without it, they would likely go under. At the very least, make a LOT less money. 'Other brands' do a homage watch now and then that have little impact to their bottom line. These are not the same thing. One brand quite literally relies on stealing designs, the others don't.

[@alfredthegreat9543]

@TopTierTicker Didn't Rolex steal their Submariner design from Blanpain's 50 fathoms released 1 year before then? That was definitely a homage. I don't think SM do that many 1 to 1 copies tbh. Basically since the industry begun watchmakers would create timepieces inspired by the work of their predecessors or peers. Again, because watches have a specific function, pretty much every watch available has design elements taken from a previous or current watch. Take Rolex for example, they've been churning out the same design of many watches with tiny changes over the decades- they are basically homages now aren't they- but yes, of their own watch. It's pretty much how every watch brand has started parts from other timepieces used in theirs, seeing a timepieces sell well and producing their own version etc. Been happening for centuries.

[@watchdogpodcast239]

@@alfredthegreat9543 🤦

[@goldfools5445]

I have noticed a lot of the big watch reviewers are are all over downing, homages, clomages, what ever they call them. Then when it’s one of their favourite brands, they have all the excuses why it’s ok. It’s Madnes😉

[@NCSheriff7]

You are delusional brother. San martin are ripoffs and you get what you pay, nothing more. You can ask yourself why their rolex and tudor copys are the best and their omegas and pateks sucks ;)

[@Rio-ke9he]

Exactly my problem, they're not consistent

[@brianlam9429]

I think we're seeing the birth of the next generation of Seiko and Citizen.. and they're called San Martin, Baltany, etc.

[@maxpower5346]

Totally agree

[@peterlandbo2726]

Then it would be a pleasure seeing them develop original designs instead of ripping off others

[@brianlam9429]

@@peterlandbo2726 then you should check their recent catalogue.

[@davidmarsden305]

You make some very good points, however I would still buy it🤷😁

[@RageAgainstTime]

I also have this watch and I completely understand what you are saying. I love SM in general, I think their watches offer great quality for the price and I do have the SN0131 that you originally requested (it isn't an original design either, Wolbrook Outrider case, PP Aquanaut dial). They are doing a mix between different watches and calling them their "own design" but I'm actually ok with it. Yes, it doesn't feel like you "conquered" something by buying them but I do appreciate what they offer in term of "price vs quality" as I find myself bored of my watches after a while (even Omega and fancier ones). I would recommend SM if you already have a bunch of watches or are planning on having a collection of different designs on a budget. But if you want to feel accomplished when showing off the watch to someone else then get a Swiss watch or something expensive. If you accept what it is, then you will be fine with yourself! I have other microbrands and to be honest, I prefer SM over Zelos. I ended up selling most of my Zelos (only have a meteorite dial with me now) because I do get bored of their designs fairly quick! Something about them don't make me keep them long term... I have older SM in my collection and never sold any yet nor am planning to.. I do enjoy my Venezianico watches but in terms of quality, I think SM offers so much more for 1/3 of the price. They are a budget watch company and I hope they stay like that without adding any fancy movement inside (like Venezianico and Zelos are doing, because frankly, their latest releases are getting so expensive that I prefer buying established Swiss watches instead)... Another thing to mention is that my Citizen watches completely lost wrist time after I started wearing SM. The quality of Citizen sucks (feels cheap when holding and wearing) compared to SM when they have the same price. My current rotation by preference is Omega, TAG Heuer, SM, Venezianico, Wicked Watch Co, Baltany, Addiesdive, Locman, Mido, Zelos, Tissot, Citizen, Pagani. Cheers!

[@lucianacarvalho4095]

original or not the watch is damn beautiful and well made. so if u dont want it send it to me . I"ll take it! 😁

[@Mystery_Man84]

It’s inspired by Grand Seiko. It’s not a copy. The hand set is different amongst other features. I have no problem with it.

[@TopTierTicker]

Correct. Case and bezel is the copy. With an oyster bracelet.

[@richardandaya3932]

My BB 58 San Martin Homage is amazing and I wear it all the time. And I own Rolex and Omega…

[@peterlandbo2726]

Well, sell them

[@AndrewClayton999]

This is my problem with this review. Holding back this brand because it has borrowed elements from another watch (tho not entirely) is using standards which other watches are not necessarily held to. Hear me out. Watch trends, like clothing fashion, are generally led by the big boy companies. Smaller brands ape these all the time. And this isn’t limited to Chinese brands on Aliexpress. Without a doubt there are definite rip offs from the earlier San Martin watches but there is no denying that they are aiming to break away from this pigeon hole they find themselves in. To be honest, I think they probably sent you the wrong watch.

[@TopTierTicker]

I think maybe you've confused my reasoning as to why this wasn't hasn't appealed to me. I just don't like the design. I think it's a bit too busy and jumbled. It's just missing that spice, that x-factor. Obviously, this is the most subjective part of the review. Hence the glowing review beforehand for its quality and finish. The fact that I found it to be a homage was just a part of the narrative regarding the tier list video I made. Confirming that indeed the watches are exceptionally well made, but I want to see more originality from them.

[@pippo-1073]

​@@TopTierTickernothing wrong with not liking it. Problem is your video does not really get that over, your video puts over that you don't like it because it's not an original design. This is totally your fault. I think it's a nice watch but does absolutely nothing for me and that has nothing to do with originality, which is what the while video feels like it's about

[@abstuli]

Rolex Submariner is not an original design either. It was very much inspired by the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms made one year before the first Rolex Submariner.

[@haveugotriz4983]

Level headed response, props to you and SM. At the end of the day we all like watches and it’s okay to disagree with each other. I’ll keep it short and simple because I’m seeing a lot of think pieces below: Just wear what makes YOU happy.

[@Ruffaloo]

As someone who does not really care about brand heritage, San Martin watches really excite me. Beautifully crafted cases and well-made bracelets are so important to me. Sometimes I kind of wish I cared more about the history of watches. But the simple truth is that I don't care unless I have some sort of personal connection. For example, I love Casio watches because my father always liked them, which I learned at a young age.

[@moneymikz]

Welcome to the party mate, I guess better late than never… the best analogy I’ve heard is that Chinese watches are like Japanese cars in the 70s. They will be mainstream by the end of the decade.

[@cougarbatterie]

You're far from being an idiot. You have the right to your opinion and your ranking choices. If others disagree, let them start their own channel and remain respectful to yours. Please keep making your great videos. I just love them👍

[@antevrankovic4539]

honest review! keep the good work!

[@ifnyou]

Really appreciate how straightforward you are about what you think, regardless of how that might affect a relationship with the brand etc. I also think this is a great buying guide for viewers, even if they don't share your views.

[@TopTierTicker]

Thanks. It's just a shame people get so upset when you don't like something they do.

[@ifnyou]

@@TopTierTicker Yeah... a lot of people coming to KZbin for affirmation of things they already believe and are upset when they don't get it.

[@stevehenrytagami4709]

It is not a clomage rather influenced by GS. The case, dial, hands are different Many Swiss brands take influence from other designs. SM are heading in the direction of Phoibus , we hope as they are talented. If only they employ a western designer, I would pay more SM have started a new Microbrand with original Chinese Domestic orientated designs They are called Jianghun but the designs are not our culture

[@TopTierTicker]

I've seen! The first release looks super cool. Yes, this time a homage and not a clomage which is better! Still, lacking that spice for me personally.

[@JianghunWatch]

@@TopTierTicker The design of the next model to be launched is not so polarized. Are you interested in commenting on it?😉

[@ponyman13]

@@TopTierTicker you should take them up on this @jianghunWatch

[@cheesychester9647]

San Martin is killing it. They will grow into their own with time

[@beowulfforce]

The problem I found with San Martin Watches a time ago was the bracelet links were finished internally in a sharp angles not in a polished smooth angles, I dont know if that was corrected in later models.

[@Ruffaloo]

I think it's the same even with luxury brand watches like Tudor or Rolex. The bracelet has to be sized correctly so that it's comfortable to wear.

[@kimchiwasabee]

This one covered in PVD gold and the white dial. I'm in awe.

[@ClevaTreva]

Regular Seiko buyer here - I've bought two SMs recently and they're amazing quality for the price. I WILL buy more. Their 39mm 62MAS homage is quite superb - easily on-par with the SPB143. Easily... 👍

[@JoseLuis-ir2xl]

If you're looking for total originality, you won't find it. Compared to the Grand Seiko, the display is different, the indices are different, the hands, the bracelet, the hour window is black on one and white on the other, the Grand Seiko has a power reserve hand. In other words, a lot of differences. The Grand Seiko, if we take your criteria into account, could be considered a copy of the 1970 Rolex Exprorer II. The hands are different, the bracelet , etc.

[@HasanIftakhar]

Thanks for your honest thoughts. That SN0129 may be inspired by that GS model, but definitely not a clomage type thing, not even close. I am just a rational normal person who enjoys his Seiko 5s and Alpinists, but also enjoys SMs. From a rational perspective, it is confusing to me when someone keeps hammering the words that he feels bland and empty and boring because SM doesn't offer anything different and yet hypes up the Tank alternatives or Tsuyosa which are 100% original designs? Or any dirty dozen type watch, the designs of which are so unique and original that none has ever seen before? Please help me understand.

[@TopTierTicker]

So I think what you've done here if used a blanked statement across all watches in the same category. Which is natural, but it's not real life. Situations are dynamic and often feature nuances that seperate them. It's possible to enjoy a homage, and not enjoy another. My description of this watch not having a soul, feeling like it didn't have a designer... Is a real thing. That's how the watch made me feel when I looked it at it. I don't get that feeling when I look at all homage watches. Some do indeed give me a little smile. This one didn't, it didn't hit that spot. I'm not even a fan of the GS that the case and bezel copies. If this watch changed a few details, maybe I would love it. But as it was, I just didn't like the design.

[@HasanIftakhar]

@@TopTierTicker Okay, so I get the point that it is about personal preferences. Thanks a lot for clarifying.

[@axisdriftguitarworks1384]

It would be great to do a video of the history of brands copying each other to set things straight.If I'm not mistaken, the famous tissot prx is a copy of the rado voyager, isn't it? I think lots of watch reviewers have a grudge against high quality Chinese watch brands that are exploding the luxury watch hoax so many are addicted to. Watches are utilitarian objects and rarely, if ever, works of art.

[@maxinahunt8652]

Great video! Wow. Does it ever look like the GS! I’m still toying with that square chronograph you posted. Didn’t realize they have a few other colours from a previous year.

[@watchalot919]

Hi Keiron, here is my call on it. I own the 0130 and 0129, and they are both superb. The 0130 definitely isn't a homage, and it's debateable whether the 0129 is a DIRECT homage either. Although there is a similarity to a GS, the hands, indices, and lack of a power reserve meter pretty much make it a watch of it's own. If it's a homage, then you would have to consider the Chris Ward C63 GMT as the same. Homages/clomages are the biggest debating subject on any watch forum, and for good reason. Nearly every watch produced has something in common with another watch. What really annoys me is that some enthusiasts accept brands such as Seiko using the designs of Rolex (for example) but won't accept it from brands such as Pagani or Cronos. I no longer buy what I consider is a clomage, but have no issue with their production, and appreciate there are those who love them. As a matter of interest Jodie considers it an original design

[@ZERO_SVN]

I have this watch in lapis lazuli and absolutely love it. It's one of my 2 daily drivers for the past year. The rest of my collection are chilling in the watch box. I think this SM looks better than the GS, but that's just me. I'm thinking of getting the Henry Archer Verdent Sienna color way, but trying to refrain from buying another watch.

[@Sicarius888]

For me originality isn't very important. Practical designs, good quality production and affordable price is enough. But here is SM's problem, they are above 150 Euro limit and missing dependable EU dealer. I really don't want to go through the paperwork hassle of customs office.

[@TopTierTicker]

That's fair enough, I can appreciate how it might not be to some. And yes, tell me about it. I've paid around 15 import fees this year already. Hate them!

[@Sicarius888]

@@TopTierTicker I also don't like vat and other fees, but I would pay without too much complaining if they simply let me. But above 150 EUR and no vat added at checkout and you must jump through bureaucratic hoops. Wait for customs letter, send them back your id card photocopy and printed screenshots of ali and bank, wait for them to demand more explanations. And all through post office because email is too hard for gov't clerks. And hope they don't damage anything when they unpack, examine and xray the watch. Last time they even demanded info how much % of watch parts are plastic because apparently plastic and steel watches have different duty fee.

[@vladimirkapkov4998]

Я ни ЗА,ни ПРОТИВ SM. Но меня бесят эти разговоры про оригинальность дизайна.... Часовые метки у всех либо круглые, либо прямоугольные, единственные стрелки которые действительно отличаются от других-это TUDOR( интересно что курил тот человек, что решил что это снежинка?). Корпус у всех круглый, либо квадратный или прямоугольный... Сделайте свой, оригинальный дизайн и представьте его нам, зрителями и дайте задание найти общие черты с другими брендами. И потом посмотрим что останется от вашего "оригинального" дизайна.....

[@theinceptor3672]

This is exactly what I'm thinking, if he is about to go on about originality, I would love to see how he creates one without any references. I don't seem to believe that you could make an original design nowadays without actually making it look like a specific watch (there are tons of watch out there, it's hard not to make it look close to one). There's bound to be some similarities unless you are fine with making obnoxious looking pieces that stand out too hard to be worn outside.

[@rikdriscoll2160]

Way to get em going Kieron! 😀 This looks like a really nice watch, the dial is beautiful. Great specs for the price and flawless finishing. Obviously it's not an original design but I can see why people like San Martin. Another great video mate, cheers 👍

[@TopTierTicker]

Indeed! Beautiful dial, great finishing and quality. Can't go wrong if you don't mind it being a bit boring (oops) 🤣 Cheers Rik 🙏

[@Watching24-7]

This model comes in three different dial variants. Adventurine (this one) the White Marble and the Lapis Lazuli (whatever that means) all cracking looking watches imo, thinking of buying all three 🤔. Brilliant review as per 👍

[@pete36524]

Interesting conversation. I’ve just ordered a Watchdives 50 fathoms homage. I justified (so I do get what you’re saying) my purchase as it’s a homage to a watch that’s no longer made. Not got it yet but spec seems very good for its price tag. When is it ok to draw ideas inspiration from another brand? Lots of people here have pointed out that even well known names do it and after all it happens in most industries. Are San Martin watches simply just a well made watch at what appears to be a wholesale price?

[@andrewwone]

I liked where you put/ranked SM before! : ) I like this one too... I have been planning to buy a san martin watch for 1,5 year now, but I still miss something.

[@robertkujawa9677]

I don't know, mate. It doesn't look like the GS for me. It might be inspired by it, but it's definitely not your typical aliexpress homage

[@TopTierTicker]

I agree. It's not your typical Ali express copy. It's just clearly nabbed the GS case and bezel. Which is absolutely fine by the way. The overall design just doesn't appeal to me.

[@ApolloSpice]

I still feel like you are being too harsh on San Martin. they might not be completely original, but nothing really is.

[@TopTierTicker]

Amazing quality, design doesn't appeal to me. I actually think that's quite fair. Plenty is original. You just have to look for it

[@ApolloSpice]

@@TopTierTicker fair enough

[@asherperlmuter]

Looks more like the Christopher Ward C63 GMT

[@KennySouthPark86]

To be honest i think it takes some ideas from the Grand Seiko, but calling it a clomage is a little much. If anything, the round Aquanaut one feels waaaaay more clomagey to me than this one and is also using a design element that is very specific to Patek, and somehow you see that one as an original design. The video one does copy some elements from the Grand Seiko, but you could also say Grand Seiko copied those elements from 2000 other watches.

[@TopTierTicker]

I didn't call it a clomage. I pointed out the elements that have been copied over. Again, the watch is great. I just find it a bit boring.

[@koen7648]

​@@TopTierTickeryes, because you have a distinct style you like (Vario, Phoibos). But this model is not a clommage or hommage. By the comparison with the GS almost every watch is a clommage. Long Island watches are almost all clommages, Seiko makes a lot of watches that has a resemblance of a more expensive watch. It is just the game. Big brands make some influental legendray designs and everybody copies it. Some brands change almost nothing design wise and others change a bit more. After all, it is a small device on your wrist. It is not something that can be from another world in terms of design and movement. Every model is just a small change to something that already excists. But that same thing goes for more things: cars, movies, music

[@pippo-1073]

​@koen7648 You could get a bunch of dive watches from the top luxury brands and remove their logos and the average person wouldn't know they're different watches. Having said that there's no story I'm aware of behind San Martin. That's what makes buying their watches unappealing to me.

[@koen7648]

@@pippo-1073 yeah so? Same with clothes, phones and lot of other things. I buy watches because I like them, it does not matter what anyone else thinks. I know what is on the onside of the watch, how it was made and what the value/ quality is

[@koen7648]

@@pippo-1073 besides, most people would still recognoze the icons. Maybe not by name. And if they would see it upclose they would see it is high quality.

[@tapirath]

There is a version of this watch without the numbers on the bezel and with a sand pattern dial. That one is a mix of 2 different GS watches + original dial, indicators and hands. I would consider that one "different enough to not being considered a homage" just like Tsuyosa vs Perpetual Oyster

[@ralphus555]

Beautiful watch. Well made at a great price point. I'm going to order one. I don't really get the romanticism around original design. To each his own. Well done review.

[@TopTierTicker]

For me, the design is the number one factor. I don't wear a watch because of its spec sheet, I wear a watch for how it looks.

[@younusimam-thesalamproject6340]

I have a Proxima which is fantastic. All these more developed AliEx brands are growing. I personally dont like homages either, but i pulled the trigger on one and its a daily wear now.

[@TopTierTicker]

Which Proxima is it out of interest?

[@younusimam-thesalamproject6340]

@TopTierTicker the Proxima PX1697 Enamel white. It's a homage of the older CW C65. Ironically I never liked the original but I quite like the Proxima version. Really well designed for 300 $ and they show you they've regulated the watch in advance.

[@zillsburyy1]

hey kid!!! SM is excellent quality

[@AndraJevtovic]

I completely agree with you. No matter how well they are build, San Martin watches lack character by my opinion, and that’s why I will never buy one. When looking at one I simply feel nothing

[@D3ZG1978]

And the quality is definitely better than their design….

[@jaesounglee7396]

What some people down here should not mistake is that TTT is speaking from a subjective position as an one of enthusiasts just like one of us, not an objective position on behalf of all enthusiasts. In my point of view, that watch is freakingly well made, noone will deny about this, it out-qualities most of mestige and micro brands for under $300, however, it just does not attract me enough due to its hiphop grafitti vibe logo and a feeling of I have already seen it somewhere. In terms of design, there are differences between homages that combine the originality of other watches. Mixing a lot of good things doesn't always lead to good results. Rather, there are cases where adding a little creativity makes you press the purchase button.

[@TopTierTicker]

Exactly that. I'm just sharing my opinion on the design. I gave it nothing but credit for quality. Even recommended people buy it too.

[@mickosullivan2962]

I currently do not own a San Martin watch however they are on my radar , problem is that they just kinda hit some of my hot buttons . I mean they are ok but nothing jumps out that I cannot get from Orient , Citizen , Seiko well you get it , just nothing original . Keep up the good videos you are good at what you do !

[@stuartdavies7351]

You haven’t hung around with flipping this one! Since you are, fancy a straight swap with the white/silver wavy dial version? (SN0129)

[@gregtolley3455]

I've said it for 2 years, SM is a serious movement away from being a true swiss killer. Don't hate on them, Tudor started exactly the same way and half their current range is straight rips. I have the sn0131g, it's amazing and that chain mail bracelet is better than my zodiac.

[@moneymikz]

That’s a really nice piece of Aventurine too, it’s like gazing into deep space

[@MagnaxVingtTrois]

Good review, and fair, imo. That said, I only yesterday ordered my first SM. I want to see for myself if all this talk about “finishing” is about. White turbine dial with bright orange numerals (SN0132), a design that seems original enough (to me, at least).

[@TopTierTicker]

That one looks cool.

[@Dean-f2c]

Great review, I actually think I would prefer this as a standard 3 hander rather than GMT

[@johanvandersandt8904]

I think they are Wise are probably the best AE or Chinese watch brands at the somewhat affordable scale. They seem to be superb in execution. Take care Kieran!

[@Andrew-yy2ye]

This watch is amazing and san martin are killing it

[@rimas.kalpokas]

A similar case shape and bezel makes it a homage? Then Casio Duro and the Seiko SKX are homaging Rolex Sub 😂

[@yama-fanboy]

I guess i'll finally be able to decide whether your issue with San Martin watches is genuine or not. Check out the SN0144.

[@avalchinov]

Right on point. Great video

[@TopTierTicker]

Appreciate that

[@PoppingCrowns]

Very well put. I get the same empty feeling with “clomage” watches.

[@urbanus3546]

I think you've done very good and very fair review.

[@kx575]

Price over originality. I'm a buyer, so it's my money vs. value. If we compare value vs. money, any steel watch over $500 dollars is not worth it. Originality will not add value to me. It only helps the brand name to keep raising their price at the expense of the customers. If the price of a grand seiko is 10x more, then they better offer 10x more value.

[@TopTierTicker]

That's fair enough! I get that completely.

[@koen7648]

Steel watch over 500 not worth it? The value still increases relatively the same with price with a lot of watches up to 1500. If you truly want value for money than a casio that costs 60 does the job. CW is more expensive than AliX watches, but they have better design, finishing, movement, bracelet and more. So relatively speaking it is still lot of value for money. The perspective of value for money is personal. Under 500 the accuracy is bad, everything is 3hz, movement finishing is non excistent and the watches are not proparly tested (like the Seiko prospex line is above the 500). I think the best watches are more in the 600-1200 range. Like a Hamilton Khaki field automatic.

[@quarters-eye8922]

Love San Martin 👍👍👍

[@WatchWitt]

I wonder how you would have felt about the watch if you hadn’t discovered its inspiration??? Definitely looks like a great build. This has so many “traditional” elements to it, though, that it’s hard to pin it down to one particular model.

[@TopTierTicker]

I was flat on it from the moment I unboxed it. I just felt like something was missing from it. Finding out it was somewhat of a GS homage just kinda confirmed why I didn't like it, because I don't really like any Grand Seiko designs either 🤣

[@WatchWitt]

@@TopTierTicker Good stuff!

[@jakeplaydirty3882]

That dial looks fantastic

[@watchdogpodcast239]

Thank you for calling this a copy. Dave from JTW was trying to pass this off as a completely original design. You can change little details, but this watch would not exist if the GS SBGE 283&285 were never made. Even saying "heavily inspired" is being too generous

[@TopTierTicker]

Thank you my friend. Appreciate you watching

[@richarddrew8351]

A good and very fair review. It's clearly not a clone but perhaps betrays it's influences a little too heavily, and for me is just too busy.

[@TopTierTicker]

I just think it's lacking that spice. The GS that it's copying doesn't have it either (IMO). So it's started off on a struggle. Needed a couple of things changing to give it a bit more punch.

[@AckoMunze]

100% agreed on all accounts.

[@TopTierTicker]

It's nice to have a friend here 🤣 thanks 🙏

[@antevrankovic4539]

similarities are not too big it is not clomage

[@Vox-Populi]

I have a San Martin homage of the Black Bay Pro and really like it. $160 well spent.

[@turbyoulance]

I actually Like it. I noticed that the Erebus Ascent 3 best seller's atm were the white dial the Burnt orange Fume and a similar Black with speckles (stars) similar to this one you are reviewing. Out of interest I have pre ordered the Purple Fume Ascent. That aside the Black Dial speckled one similar to this San Martin as I said is extremely popular. They both remind me of Space , the final frontier......lololol IMHO the San Martin does it slightly better than the Ascent. They should call it the cosmonaut or something . I also wish that they would stop putting 100m=330 ft. Choose one or the other.

[@a51nx]

San Martin is aiming for value. That's an objective measure we can all appreciate.

[@TopTierTicker]

Absolutely. Can't beat the quality for the price.

[@Sauce_Boss_]

Extremely thick diameter, I would happily take a quarts movement to save space on the case size for this design.

[@howardmckenna]

A brand having it's *own* design language is a plus. It helps that the name is "plausible". I get really put off by poor branding.

[@markblackhurst6925]

Love your videos. I understand your point and a watch is about how it makes you feel. I'll be honest, I actually love the feeling of wearing a fantastic watch and knowing I've paid 10x less than other people. Who designed the watch first doesn't bother me. That's just dates. I just don't care. Even if I were super rich, I probably wouldn't pay big money for Rolex, Omega, Grand Seiko etc. it just doesn't make any sense to me.

[@TopTierTicker]

That's perfectly understandable. We all enjoy different things. That's the beauty of watch collecting! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts

[@joseesteves1309]

I think the real question is the definition of originality itself . There is no watch company in the world, I repeat, no company in the world that does not get "inspire by" other brands. Yes there has been original designs from scratch, and there are still some, but most are just modifications that are made based on that " inspiration" the artist has ( to me watch designers are artist). There are some blunt copies ( clonages) and there original designs ( inspirations ) once in a while you will get a true original from scratch... which is rare to see in the business.

[@antevrankovic4539]

generaly you are right although most of the people dont care about full originality

[@Lbfree125]

Again… San Martin started out doing straight up homages of other luxury brands. More recently they have made some attempts at original designs which haven’t impressed me thus far. Great value for the money but as of yet, have not stretched beyond a homage brand IMO.

[@TopTierTicker]

Perfectly put.

[@Tommy-go1ch]

99% of all watches are inspired or take design ques from other watches. It's fair enough that you have no interest in the clomages but this particular model certainly isn't one of those. To each their own though. Keep up the great work 👍

[@D3ZG1978]

This is a GREAT looking San Martin btw

[@pysordes]

This or SN0144 ?

[@AlaaHalabi]

I think it inspires as well from Breitling chronomat automatic gmt 40

[@jamesbeattie9809]

Very few watches have originality. Citizen, Seiko, tissot etc all have homages to more expensive watches. Same with timex and Casio. At the end of the day it’s all opinion and taste. Your review was fair to you and your taste and you didn’t bash the mechanics or the finish of the watch.😊

[@ChromeMan04]

What does Seiko homage exactly? Inspiration isn’t the same as homage.

[@jamesbeattie9809]

@@ChromeMan04 Clutching at straws mate. Plenty of lower affordable watches take inspiration/homage from luxury watches. It’s not a bad thing. Off the top of my head the Seiko 5 SNZF is extremely similar to the Rolex Submariner. Again nothing wrong with it but to say it doesn’t happen is wrong

[@ChromeMan04]

@@jamesbeattie9809 clutching at straws? Not exactly I asked a question and how does that Seiko “homage” the sub? I hope you realize the sub is just a homage of the Blancplains 50 so we should stop acting like Rolex is original. And inspiration isn’t the same as homage.

[@jamesbeattie9809]

@@ChromeMan04 Two sides of the same coin really though. And that’s fine. My original point still stands. Most affordable watch brands rarely come up with original products and take inspiration/homage from other pieces. Which is fine. Have a good day 👌

[@rotlicht11]

Good point with the red details written Text on dail or tip of second hand or GMT hand...so many colors to choose from but always the boring red.

[@TopTierTicker]

Yep... I just think a yellow would've really added some personality, yano.

[@noahfz]

There are countless Japanese watches that look like Swiss ones, also the Swiss brands look like each other oftentimes. The only reason this particular watch get criticised of not being original is because it’s Chinese.

[@RicardoValdes-r6w]

I have a few San Martin watches and the value is pretty good for around $250 to $300 which is not anywhere other better brands that are Swiss made but when you think of how much more one or two watches made in Switzerland will cost the average person then it is a no brainer. Even if I had $40K I would not pay such huge amount of money for a Rolex, Rolex is a fine time piece but it is more about paying so much for the ‘ name ‘ ..😊

[@mvm006]

Ok. Let's end all discussion and do a review of the JiangHun watches, San Martin microbrand, with more original designs.

[@TopTierTicker]

They look cool!

[@holo2869]

I don't get why many of you reviewers claim that this watch is not original. You do know that there's not much you can do to the classic design with how small watches are? Unless the manufacturer intended to stay away from he tried and tested classic designs, all wrist watches will look similar somehow. Even big company names releases look similar to each other.

[@Ballahooligan1]

I'm not a San Martin fanboy but it is starting to look like you've got an axe to grind here. I also think comparing it to the GS is a big reach. Case and Bezel? sort of... The rest?.... nothing like.

[@demidivine89]

Why was there a shot at phoibos?

[@TopTierTicker]

More so my Omega Seamaster 🤣

[@demidivine89]

@TopTierTicker that was a good vid and a beautiful watch though! Keep up the good work brother

[@i_read_bad_reviews]

It's original. Might as well say it has a dial so it's " heavily inspired" or whatever you said

[@alejandrorolon414]

Does not look one bit like the GS, I own both

[@TopTierTicker]

I think you need to visit an optician my friend.

[@flyguy1359]

Apart from the dial, hands , indices, logo, printing, crown, crown guards, power reserve, bracelet, rehaut, red GMT hand, second hand counter balance then yes! A complete rip off of the GS....😂😂

[@TopTierTicker]

@@flyguy1359 wrong. Case and bezel are almost identical. Including the crown guards.

[@alejandrorolon414]

@@TopTierTicker but saying that is a homage due to the case shape is saying anything with an oyster brazelet is a Rolex homage, or anything with a rectangular shape is a Tank homage. Case shape is really not that important.

[@whatsupchicken]

I wish it had a non GMT version!

[@allanbergsma3256]

Maybe the upcoming SN0144 might peak your interest!

[@TopTierTicker]

I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with their original designs. Because, they have incredible potential with the quality delivered.

[@Kr21q]

Finally, someone that realized that this watch is not an original

[@TopTierTicker]

Shhhh! Don't say that too loudly. People are willing to fight to the death to prove it isn't 😆 I can see some original elements. But it's obviously copied the GS case and bezel. Appreciate you watching mate.

[@akash_goel]

I don't think your feelings are related to this watch being inspired by other watches. I had the same issue when I first saw this watch and thought - well, lots of sparkle and shine...but not for me. My personal preference is more towards clean designs in a nice, tasteful package. The watches designed by San martin (not the 1:1 clones) don't really have that.

[@danielthegeek4582]

Sorry, but the lume is outstanding. Easily lasts all night on mine, with only exposure to normal use light.

[@TopTierTicker]

I've had many better. Certainly not bad though.

[@benjaminvis]

I generally agree with you. It is not as obvious a copy as some others. Yet, there is one bit of fallacy here in that you chose (second choice, ok) this watch and they then sent it to you. Was it foolish to put homages among the options? Yes, probably a little, but you chose this seemingly expecting it to be fully original until you found its likeness. So, it would have been a better exercise with any watch San Martin themselves truly claim IS original. That still may not change the current ranking of the brand in general, but at least on the basis of the product it would have had a fairer chance.

[@Clubbow5]

The watch looks good to me. I really don’t care what the watch brand plays homage to. I’m not a watch anorak, or snob so if I see something l like l purchase it. I’m to keen on replicas.

[@MarkM58]

I can take the borrowing to get such a high quality watch for 1/20th of the price of GS.

[@ChiTownTominator]

Dude, You knew ahead of time what you were getting with that watch. Yes it’s a homage but 97% of their watches are homage watches. It just seems like you were looking for another opportunity to smash their product. Maybe next time do more research and buy one of their original designs. The SN0144X is coming out soon and it’s build as an original design. There are images on the Internet for you to preview it, you should’ve held off for that one.

[@TopTierTicker]

I don't know every watch on the planet my friend. I can't see a watch and instantly know that it's copying another in some way. I'll absolutely be trying out another SM. Specifically when they do a proper original design piece. Because the quality here is exceptional.