Let's Talk - Validating Formal Arguments - No Thank you!

[@dudeharmonious]

Well said! "Common practice != Common Sense"

[@VinuP2023]

Shiv, may this year bring new happiness, new goals, new achievements, and a lot of new inspirations on your life. Wishing you a year fully loaded with happiness. :)

[@Matlus]

Thank you Vinay and Wishing you the same for this new year!

[@rossthemusicandguitarteacher]

I never validated all my agruments.... should I? Seems like anyone in my app should know or I failed as an architect. Also, Shiv is a sweater champion! Multi layered and comfortable AF! Also, he could narrate Planet Earth if need be. My guy is talking about Asimov in a code video!

[@Matlus]

Validate at the point of entry only. Fail fast and fail visibly (fast as in, as early as possible. Visibly as in, throw an exception). Thank you for all your other complements Ross! Much appreciated.

[@rossthemusicandguitarteacher]

@@Matlus Of course! It is criminal how your channel doesn't have more subscribers. This is good stuff.

[@Matlus]

@@rossthemusicandguitarteacher Thank you Ross. I wonder about that too sometimes :)

[@Matlus]

@Rick Wubs Thank you for your kind words Rick! I appreciate you writing in to let me know. No I haven't posted them there. Some subscribers have been kind enough to post some links. Would appreciate it tremendously of you'd do the same, as and when the opportunity presents itself. Thank you.

[@ahmedilyas8365]

I always, ALWAYS validate args as high up as possible. For the exact reason mentioned in the book or wherever possible. It indeed has saved MANY hours and times in investigating issues and what not and something, indeed, carried out at Microsoft internally. It's better to validate than let bad behaviors happen way too late causing unforeseen issues.

[@Matlus]

Thank you for your information Ahmed. It seems not all of Microsoft is on the same page:). I've had a audience member (ex Microsoft he claimed) that had a fit about this very topic and screamed out from the back saying, "I'd never work on your team" :). Later, after the presentation he apologized and said that as the talk went on he understood what I was saying and agrees but that's not what the team he was on did.

[@ahmedilyas8365]

@@Matlus yes that part is totally correct that not all teams follow the guidance. it is sad and such a shame that this is how some teams are. Until the top/managers enforce the same guidance, there is nothing we can do except for people like us to continue and carry on to lead by example

[@Matlus]

@@ahmedilyas8365 Well said Ahmed!

[@VinuP2023]

Thank you Shiv.....very informative video and as always got to to learn a lot :)

[@Matlus]

Hey Vinay! Long time no see. Glad you liked it and learnt from it.

[@RaghuramanKanchi]

Thanks for another informative/discussion share.

[@Matlus]

Thank you Raghu! Glad you're enjoying these.

[@saurabhchauhan232]

Very nice explanation. Learning foundational stuff, glad I found you :D

[@Matlus]

Thank you Saurabh! You questions have inspired me to make some of my videos, so thankyou for your curiosity and questions.

[@saurabhchauhan232]

@@Matlus so much to learn from you. 😀

[@Matlus]

@@saurabhchauhan232 And I feel there is so much more to learn (for me)!!

[@hansrudolf5849]

Some very true words at 35:00 until the end and the main reason why I so highly value your opinion. Unfortunately it's really rare to meet this type of mindset out in the field.

[@Matlus]

Hans, thank you so much for your comment! I feel humbled and encouraged.

[@chordfunc3072]

31:50 guilty of this... Very true... I'm kinda skeptical of how people do testing though. I often see people implement some test where they´ve implemented some mock, and all the test is essentially doing is validating that the mock is mocking the right thing... I feel like I'm crazy, and are often wondering what these people see that I dont, haha...

[@martonbalassa8128]

Huh? That sounds like tdwtf material.

[@chordfunc3072]

@@martonbalassa8128 The testing the mock part?

[@Matlus]

Yes, I don't think most folks know how to test and yes, I've seen plenty of tests where they end up testing the mocks rather than the class they intended to. But I feel most testing is done to get code coverage rather than truly test the system (or classes) for what the proport to be doing.

[@Matlus]

@@martonbalassa8128 LOL, if you could only hear me now! But what ChordFunc says is more prevalent than you'd think.

[@abhilashbandi3866]

Shiv, Lets say I have a frontend app calling backend api. Frontend does its usual validation like checking for required fields. Should the same validation be performed on the api side?

[@Matlus]

Good question Abhilash! Yes the API is your "system". It stand independent of the UI. So must do all validations. Maybe this UI does but another one doesn't or any other application that calls the API doesn't. Not sure how your API is implemented so mention this anyway. In the API tier, the controller is not your system. The controller cis is just a SIL. See my other videos on API design and responsibilities of a controller videos. So the business layer within your API tier should be doing the validations

[@abhilashbandi3866]

Let me check the other video and come back here if I have further questions Thank you

[@abhilashbandi3866]

Yah I believe I design my API is same way. API controllers are just a delivery mechanism which deals with requests and responses which can be and should be replaceable with other mechanisms if required. My business layer usually does these kind of validations along side with business validations. This helped me to deal with validations for requests from backdoor too.

[@chordfunc3072]

27:00 100%... and on the flipside you get cascading failures if you start accepting bad data or try to guesstimate what the input was supposed to be. You'll create bugs that are so hard to track down further down the callstack... couldnt agree more

[@Matlus]

Yes, exactly! I agree

[@abhilashbandi3866]

@@Matlus I once ended up diagnosing a bug generated in a report for a week only to find out there was a validation missing way higher up in the stack.

[@Matlus]

@@abhilashbandi3866 exactly so if all validations are done at the front and back doors then you exactly where to look

[@martonbalassa8128]

Psydub intro - I love this episode already :D

[@Matlus]

Thank you Márton. That took me more time to get done than the editing on the video itself, but if was fun to try and eventually get it working.

[@chordfunc3072]

This has nothing to do with the content of the video, just 1 minute in... But seems like the audio processing was a bit of.... There is no "room tone" when your voice cuts its 100% silent then when you speak you hear your voice and the room tone... Not a big deal, didn't notice this in your other episodes, thought I'd just point it out. Cant wait to listen through to hear what you have to say! :D

[@mmreddys5195]

To apprehend what you wanted, you have to be patient and hang on until you understand what has been demonstrated in this video 🤩🤩🤩👨‍✈️👨‍✈️👨‍✈️

[@chordfunc3072]

@@mmreddys5195 Don´t think you read my comment...

[@Matlus]

Ok, I have no idea what you're talking about :) (Which is not uncommon) so I guess I need to understand what you're saying so I can improve.

[@chordfunc3072]

@@Matlus I found this video "MLpnSBoAODw" talking about what I'm talking about... Again not a big deal, but its an easy fix

[@Matlus]

@@mmreddys5195 Thank you Malla! I know what you're trying to say. But I think you intended to write a comment rather than a reply to ChordFunc :)

[@hamoudrodriguez2702]

Could you make a video about akka.net and rx.net? Would be awesome to hear your opinions about them 👍 and ofc: micro services

[@Matlus]

Hamoud, I've played with both aka and rx. But I've not used them in production apps so unfortunately I won't be making a video on these anytime soon :). I'm not very impressed (don't see the need) by either and so I've not used them in anything meaningful. Microservices......well that another story. You'll hear from me on this topic but let me tell you that I'm not a big fan of the word and I believe most implementations are way off track because most folks have completely missed the point. Mainly because of the name and the hype.

[@hansrudolf5849]

@@Matlus can't wait for your video about microservices .. ;)

[@Matlus]

@@hansrudolf5849 , maybe that topic is worth a discussion (live session) first? That way its not a one sided point of view

[@hansrudolf5849]

@@Matlus As I previously said - I value your opinion very high and with your years of experience at some point you always end up coming up with something which I hadn't considered yet. Unfortunately, my recent projects were mostly front end related which doesn't really make me a good fit to challenge you ... :) The knowledge which I have relates mostly the theoretical parts in books and lessons learnt from companies like Netflix and co. Lessons which probably will never relate to any of my projects as they are operating on systems with a different scale.

[@Matlus]

@@hansrudolf5849 Sure, but that doesn't disqualify anyone from discussing what they do know or have read or had experiences with etc.