Let's think out loud about Seraphine and what she's selling for 28 minutes

[@MrGeckoWarrior]

I'd love if Riot focused on contrasting Seraphine and Sona. Like comparing a classically trained artist and a teen popstar.

[@mitcharlotte672]

Oh, I wish they do that

[@brkli1485]

that's making me sad cuz they're probably not gonna do that. great idea though

[@TheSuperskadoosh]

that would be the only way for me to accept that champion right now it looks like sona mains are getting the aatrox treatment ignored and forgotten without an identity that's truly her own

[@alffilmz]

@@TheSuperskadoosh nah, this is the opposite of the Aatrox treatment. Aatrox mains had their champ removed and replaced, Sona mains has their champ forgotten.

[@alessandroseverino8222]

@@Vizible21 well how'll eventually rework sona as a champion is allready pretty much said rework?

[@marylopes6745]

I was actually really disappointed when i saw the normal Seraphine splash art, bcs i was expecting her to look like a steampunk idol since shes from Piltover, but insted she looks the same way on League's universe as she does in kda's universe (aka our universe). Idk i just feel like a champ that had this big amount of marketing and hype behind it would be more than just a Sona rework.

[@VoidbornYordle]

A steampunk champ sounds actually amazing

[@marylopes6745]

@solarine art yea i saw thouse, they were so pretty, but for some reason champs concept art always looks better than the actual champ lol.

[@Mooi823]

Yeah I didn't expect her to be wearing s normal idol outfit A real life idol can look like this It's like she'll come with 2 skins ,KDA and this splash art and the base skin is missing

[@ayumuchorizo4486]

kinda makes you wonder if they only cared about fitting seraphine into k/da first before even thinking about her real environment. look at caitlyn, her costume design is simpler compared to other piltover champions like vi or camille, but you can TELL caitlyn is still from piltover. seraphine tho? idk, she feels out of place --- like some sort of manga/webtoon heroine who got isekai'd and ended up in league universe.

[@fruxo4218]

The closest resemblence to sona she has is her ult format, that's it.

[@ЦойКирилл-ь7е]

Sylas: copies ultimate Neeko: copies appearance Seraphine: *copies champion*

[@thelonelyduck7267]

Underrated comment

[@xxxfairycorpsexxx7592]

made me chuckle

[@grenada9347]

Zoe: copies your summoner spells Pyke: copies the gold LeBlanc: copies her own spells Dr Mundo: copies 3 items Ornn: copies a shop Lillia: copies Hecarim, but its a Disney adaptation Malzahar: copies Yorick, but is ap Yorick: copies Malzahar, but is ad Aatrox: copies riven, but has wings Have I missed something? Yes. Zed: copies himself Mordekaiser: copies Camilles R, Karthus Q and Swains E Ivern: copies blue and red buffs Are there more?

[@calivire6135]

Grenadă Yone

[@grenada9347]

@@calivire6135 yone has a reason to be a copy, plus he is edgy, he can do whatever he wants

[@ApexGale]

It feels as though Riot came up with KDA Seraphine before the base Seraphine and then had to do gymnastics to try fitting her into Runeterra. I don't know why they stuffed her into Zaun, her aesthetic doesn't really fit into it that well. Even if they're going for a "light in the darkness" angle with her, I would prefer if she had at least SOME traits akin to Piltover/Zaun champs.

[@lukastreurnich7893]

I agree. Piltover and Zaun are futuristic, but its steam punk, dark and brown. People are literally, in the lore, dying in Zaun, because the air that they breath are filled with toxins and CO2.

[@ieatbees5738]

reading your comment, you should read her champion insight post you will be VERY disappointed over the early concept arts of her compared to her final design her early designs were very piltovian and had a much better balance of piltover + idol

[@madamaonyx8844]

@@ieatbees5738 I went and looked at them and you're right. Her finally design just does not mesh well with her being from Piltover, there's too much going on. Her design with the white hair in a long braid looked just right to me but instead we got someone who looks like a unicorn just puked all over her.

[@Angelica-sq9lh]

It was exactly what I was thinking out! It seems that they planned her KDA lore first, then someone remembered that KDA only exist on a alternative reality, so they needed to cover it up somehow.

[@tehtayziez]

Absolutely this, in the way they marketed her, she just feels completely like an afterthought compared to the KDA skin version of her.

[@kindred4564]

So many things about this champ feels like a slap to the face, not gonna lie. The fake mental health tweets, the forced relatability. They give her an ult skin on release meanwhile some characters don't even have a legendary skin despite being popular champions. Her kit is just Sona 2.0, even more than Samira feeling like a better Katarina. It feels gross. A 33Billion dollar company talking about real mental health issues 'relating' to others. Leaves a horrible taste in my mouth.

[@jennywithaglock3916]

especially given the scandals around how they treat their female employees... yikes..

[@bornfromfire9379]

@@samalass466 It honestly feels more like they focused on her KDA lore more then her based lore, like the idea was that they wanted an up and coming star for the next set of KDA and decided to make a new champion to facilitate that skin. I guess I just got that feeling because the first things we saw from her was KDA stuff.

[@kindred4564]

@Brandon Munoz I can when it was all to sell a $25 skin in the end

[@jennywithaglock3916]

it's bad because riot is morally kinda terrible there have been a lot of scandals and theres this fake person saying "mental health is important" like yes it is, it really is very important but what about the sexual harrassers riot is protecteing... and the peopl ethye hurt the mental health of..

[@lemonvenom23]

Some champions don't even have an epic skin

[@yuzubbt]

I feel like Riot is just trying to tap into other fields for marketing, I’m thinking the whole Hatsune Miku hologram concerts and selling actual merch of her as a singer per se rather than a champion, and we can kinda see that with the KDA concept. Frankly I think they just tried dipping their toes into this with KDA and saw how good it went so they just built a whole champ based off of marketability rather than gameplay and lore.

[@akalixevelynn2932]

I honestly have fallen in love with the whole KDA band / aesthetic in fact I would prefer they continue to make merch/story for it well after the skins release. I dont really even play league anymore but just love what they created.

[@happymogu6772]

So basically tryin’ to hop onto the Vtuber market

[@adamsterdam9049]

Exactly my thoughts. This is a KDA champ first, everything else is an afterthought

[@nitouu5727]

I think they gonna make her over powerd Like Samira and Then. Everybody gonna buy her ult skin. And Riot Then Has much money right?

[@nitouu5727]

And Just make her Hype with The kda stuff ykk. And Then there is ornn. Nvm Riot ist going 2 kinda do everything 4 money.

[@TheDoctorOfThrills]

She doesnt look Piltovian, moreover she just looks like Sona ported to Mobile Legends

[@YuenQestir]

Sona's style has 1000x more elegance and originality - her outfit is a dress up for a 10y/o

[@diegosaez4885]

She's a Zaunite that was raised in Piltover. Just to clarify, as doesn't look Zaunite either.

[@thelonelyduck7267]

She doesnt look like sona at all. The both do music, theyboth have similar kits, but they do NOT look the same.

[@SinfulSaint0102]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Seraphine is the mobile game knock off version of Sona

[@summerishere5146]

bang bang

[@Jennifer-mz7lm]

honestly kinda feels like riot + some other companies are kind of learning how to foster and manipulate parasocial relationships to monetary advantages online. it isn’t exactly a new thing cause influencers and some youtubers do it all the time, but it becomes even more worrying when a major company like them starts to do it on a level which feels almost personal, like mimicking twitter trends. or maybe it just seems more fake when they do it bc it’s easier to see through given their Influential Company status? idk but i think it says something about how prevalent parasocial dynamics have become online that companies are now studying and imitating them to pretty far extents. (sorry for the ramble i just have a lot of Thoughts about what riot is doing right now)

[@TBSkyen]

Pretty much ALL KZbinrs do it. Intentionally or not, it's part of the job, and kind of an inevitable outcome of media itself. The term was coined to describe people's feelings towards talk-show and radio hosts in the 1950s, and those patterns have gotten extremely intensified on the social internet. You either make a conscious effort to manage the parasocial interaction with your audience, or you get horribly burned when it backfires on you all at once.

[@RenZeffie]

Inevitable outcome of capitalism I think. If it can be sold as a commodity, it will.

[@TBSkyen]

@@RenZeffie Yep.

[@sebwalk8179]

I feel like your points are extremely valid. I remember during quarantine I fell back into my depression, and I turned to KZbinrs and streamers to ease my mind. At first it felt good because it felt like I had a social outlet again. However, that delusion fades away in time. Eventually, I felt like some kind of creepy voyeur because I didn't have the money, or desire in some cases, to support these creators who I enjoyed watching. That's not to say that these creators don't deserve to make money off their content, or that all of them take advantage of their platform. However, I think turning to other working class citizens to finance their job can lead to unhealthy behaviors on both sides. Long story short, I find it kind of sick that there are industries that capitalize on the desperation caused by loneliness and mental health issues.

[@amiablereaper]

Yup. Now that you're alienated, pay for the feeling of social relationships!

[@justsomedudete3320]

She looks like a start guardian skin

[@alpi7411]

I had the same feeling when zoe came out, you get used to it

[@KimeriX]

@@alpi7411 Zoe is a lot more interesting

[@justsomedudete3320]

@@alpi7411 Zoe at least fits the targonian astethic. She's so much more interesting than seraphine... Who looks like a cheap moba design tbh

[@Niick3015]

@popocot popocot I wouldnt say sylas / senna / samira / qiyana / pyke / kaisa are weeb bait. Hell lillia and sett are hardly weeb bait. Sett slightly moreso but lillia's more furry bait than weeb bait.

[@alpi7411]

@@justsomedudete3320 ok, I agree

[@glasslilacs]

Wow, this... got strangely emotional for me. I've been so scared for so long of the rise of parasocial marketing, and it's honestly made me feel very very isolated and alone. Everyone around me seems to just eat it up. They donate to VTubers, they get led on and manipulated and leveraged. And every time I mention how scared it makes me feel or how uncomfortable I am with people exploiting human pysche and sociality to make profits for a company, I'm always met with remarks concerning my "cynicism" or that i'm "just a hater and an anti", but like... that's not it. This stuff is scary. And I hate how mainstream and accessible it's becoming. As if people on the internet aren't fake and manufactured enough, we're now adding another layer on top, not only being the most perfected, idealized version of /ourselves/, but now becoming the most perfected, idealized version of a /character designed to be appealing to an audience/. People are night on being mass-hypnotized, and loving every second. The world at the moment almost reminds me of some weird, candy-wrapped form of stockholm syndrome. I'm glad you talked about this, that you know so much about this, and that I'm not alone. It really genuinely means a lot to me Skyen, and I'm sorry you have to walk the parasocial line, it takes a toll on a moral person, it really does. Thanks for the openness.

[@skipmanghondarg]

Man... I have this kind of anxiety too, but there's nothing we can do. Everything, that makes money, will get attracted eventually. Right now, when i think of the word "money" - RiotGames always the first thing that comes to my mind just bcuz of the marketing they have last ~3years. There was a reason why Tyler1 was unbanned, you know... Making skins most of the time for a female champs; 2 same skins with a different chroma (Lux twice and Leona); skins with outline frames on loading screen; achievements you have to pay for (while HoTS and other MOBAs got this option for free) etc... -They we're also buffing champs op-champs jsut bcuz of the skin release- There not much of the game anymore, just money making... Community is toxic af too. Not to RiotGames, but to all the people playing, like... why?

[@charcoalangel7536]

@@peacepham7838 "They seek for it because they aren't happy with something in their own lives and nobody has the right to criticize it" ......that is not a healthy way of dealing with those problems. You claim that it's literally just human nature to turn towards fiction to escape but that "human nature" almost made me kill myself a few years ago when reality didn't meet up with my expectations. I defeated those feelings by running towards them and facing the storm head on rather then retreating into fantasy. Get a therapist to work out your problems instead of giving money to some vtuber to make yourself feel better. Sorry if this comment came off as kind of aggressive but your comment reminded me of a time when I had a very dangerous mindset.

[@Vaporvision]

[@Naixatloz]

@@charcoalangel7536 Turning to fiction can hurt or heal. I've had times when I was concerned I was retreating into fake worlds and cultivating connections with fictional characters rather than face reality, but fictional stories have also sometimes been transformative experiences that have helped me look at my reality in a healthier way. It depends on the person and their state of mind, and from the outside looking in you probably can't tell whether or not it's doing a specific person harm.

[@yonmere]

It very much depends. Some Vtubers are online idols, it would seem. Their jobs are to be entertainers in the same vein as actors/actresses are. It's kinda part of their whole deal to play characters and sell merch (in one form or another) based off of those characters. That's sorta the whole business model Taking it personally is like getting upset that the local baker sells confectionaries. "You don't have to be here, you know", and all that.

[@kulovicz3152]

Seraphine is like a singer being surprised nobody went to her concert in the middle of plague.

[@flamingwheel9926]

Plague 2.0

[@alvins8354]

when i first heard about her i assumed she would be like a Siren kind of champion, she would use her voice to lure and charm people towards her to maybe some sort of cave. I didn’t really imagine her being a popstar in piltover There were also a lot of ocean references in her twitter media. In my head I thought she would be the “Aspect of the Sea” and her melodies are like the sounds of the ocean (this would make her Targonian too obviously :D)

[@xGumiho]

i guess because it would remind people too much of evelynn/ahri but yeah the siren idea wouldve been much more interesting

[@thelonelyduck7267]

I wish they made her targonian or even piltivoan but moves to zaun. I mean if you want sparkley dresses and gemstone boomboxs gtf outta zaun.

[@mrtribune5785]

Thats what I thought this! There’s so much they could have done with a music themed champ! Music has so much to explore!

[@tonyjames3541]

Honestly was expecting Aspect of Music when I saw her design. Zaun is like steampunk Gotham, Sera looks too bright.

[@patdsbitch9464]

Some might say that a luring champ would be too close to the other ladies with charms. But I feel like even with the swap to Targonian, she would still feel unique. She has a very fresh, big girl Zoe vibe-- childish, pure, innocent. Meanwhile Ahri and Evelynn both get more sexy vibes. As far as I remember, the closest champion to a charm that isn't supposed to be outright sexy would be Rakan, and that's debatable. Having a champ designed around a charm AND the sea and maintaining that soft, innocent vibe? Would be too cute! I really like that idea!!! And I don't hate Sera's design. She provides an amazing look and contrast to Sona, who's all about traditional music. But w o w she sure doesn't look like she's made for LoL. I know it would be wishful thinking to ask if they could rework some of her, but I have a feeling they wouldn't. Even with my hesitation, I know I'm going to cave and buy her. I just wish her lore and design was more... Runeterra. Your Aspect of the Sea design sounds so cool :((((

[@PenguinFire195]

The marketing major in me is incredibly impressed with what Riot was able to do with Seraphine, the human being in me is more than a little concerned...

[@ImCroozy]

Honestly I totally get that. It is quite clever of them to be able to trick this many people, but GOD it pisses me off

[@mrchung]

@@ImCroozy Hol up, trick? What trick?

[@stevenmao6766]

The fundamentals of marketing and advertising is a psychological game. That's the business, that's the trade. That's why it's such a controversial and questionable field when ethics are brought to the table.

[@CapsuleGraph11]

@@ImCroozy Wouldnt say trick, they are just making something appealing

[@Drekromancer]

@Ska Based.

[@juliner4036]

15:11 Except that one person "Maam ur a drawing"

[@charcoalangel7536]

Our hero.

[@mulan-jinglesemusicas1513]

@@charcoalangel7536 a true gamer

[@noface17244]

Lmao

[@arianlawrencevinoyasalonga872]

Lmao

[@lizpurr4176]

The Rob pfp really sells it for me

[@KimeriX]

She doesen't fit into Runeterra for me.

[@justsomedudete3320]

Exactly

[@Jaewing]

THIS ^

[@squidcat8821]

Her outfit lmao, her concept art was really good tho

[@etro0972]

true

[@SentientPalm]

I agree but also piltover and zaun are much more technically advanced than the rest like camille existing makes this feel plausible the tech exists the issue is the sparkles. (spelling edit)

[@volcanicviper5984]

"is this an out of season april fools joke"

[@nazarenomilohanich4883]

Do you guys don't have money to give us?

[@himawari3688]

Dont you guys all have wallets ?

[@nv_johan8711]

Hey guys you like anime girls right? Just to make sure-

[@tiredtortoise3396]

Heh, Diablo Immortal.

[@rainghostly]

A friend of mine commented something about her being like sona on her twitter and he got immediately blocked. Thought that was interesting.

[@MJ123and5]

Hmmm interesting riot

[@siddycosmos607]

*Villager noise intensifies*

[@rbekker998]

Hey guys, let's spam:"Free Sona, begone imposter clone!" On Seraphines account :D

[@MJ123and5]

@Baxi Tabaxi you are the one who creates the garbage community

[@MJ123and5]

@@siddycosmos607 hmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm huuuuuuuuuu lmao

[@Samtarkras1]

This champ to me just really devalued all my investment in league, reminding me that league is not a story, but a franchise with the goal of money. There may be people at riot who work to make the game and story great, but man at the end of the day its what sells

[@sebwalk8179]

I feel you honestly. I think it is a dumb mindset even from a business perspective because the IP is what's going to last long after LoL is dead. There are so many stories and characters to explore, and comic books, video games, tv shows, etc can generate SO much money if they took the time to flesh it out. Im glad they are branching out into other media rn, but if they keep making missteps like this they are only going to devalue their property.

[@Januzsekta]

Welcome friend, I realized that like 3 years ago and stopped being interested all together.

[@sebwalk8179]

@@Ilyak1986 This is incredibly stupid from a business perspective as well though. Do you know why actors and mascots at Disneyland aren't allowed to break character EVER while on duty? It's because immersion is the cornerstone of any fantasy universe, and breaking it is the fastest way to devalue your intellectual property. Why would you spend money on something the creator put little care into? The fact that almost everyone can see that Seraphine was clearly designed to sell KDA skins instead of being a natural component of the universe Riot has created is an example of how little Riot cared about her outside of profit. If they keep making mistakes like this, they are going to see increasingly diminishing returns.

[@sebwalk8179]

@@Ilyak1986 At no point did I ever say musicians can't exist in P or Z. I'm saying Seraphine, with her glittery thigh highs and bubble gum pink hair, feels like she doesn't belong in this universe at all. She feels like a modern day pop star got forcibly transplanted into Runeterra. Chempunk Shredder is an excellent counter point to Seraphine because he actually feels like a character you would find in Zaun. His guitar, hair style, clothes, and voice gel with Zaun's aesthetics perfectly. Meanwhile Seraphine's gold, white, pink, blue, teal, and glitter ensemble feels completely out of place in Piltover or any other regions for that matter. Add to that her uninspired kit and her Mary-Sue backstory, and you can see the blatant cash grab. If KDA didn't exist, Seraphine wouldn't either.

[@sebwalk8179]

@@Ilyak1986 Look, Im not here to spit on your dreams. If you like the champion that's great, but a large section of the fanbase doesn't, and I feel like a lot of the criticism is justified. Riot all but admitted that KDA Seraphine was imagined first. This champion was not made with the same intentions as say Jinx or Vi. Speaking of Vi, her hair is an integral aspect of her character design. Zaunites are characterized by their punk theme, and many Zaun champions have wild hair colors to reflect that. Vi was a Zaunite who made her way up to Piltover. The fact that she has neon pink hair gives us a visual signifier of how much she DOESN'T belong in Piltover. She is a rebellious maverick among a sea of stuffy, elitist aristocrats. Contrast that with Seraphine, who only has pink hair because it helps her stand out in a crowd. Literal anime main character logic. Seraphine isn't punk or steam punk, and those are the core identities of Z and P respectively.

[@LoLAceSkylander]

Aside from the character not actually fitting the universe, what bothers me the most is that her classic skin's animations and personality seem purposefully alienated from the image you get of her from Twitter. In-universe she feels like a grown-up Zoe, but you can bet the ultimate skin will feel more familiar to her followers.

[@gravelman6232]

The funny thing is, if you look at the official reveal for her KDA skin, they literally state that the skin is supposed to fulfill the role you pointed out. It is an ultimate skin as well, to push the amount of money they make.

[@Bottlecapppp]

And that's the point, that's how she's going to sell, people are going to buy the bundle with her ultimate skin so they can play as her like how she looked like in social media

[@pyyro1114]

Riot just isnt even trying to hide their REAL intentions anymore, because the champ will sell anyway, they dont have to. I really hope that this will create a BIG shitstorm against them and that they eventually get forced to to something pro community/players instead of pro money EDIT: I didnt even realise until now (even tho you mentioned it in your vid i think) SHE GETS AN ULTIMATE SKIN??? Now this makes even more sence, that way they sell the highest possible price to all of her 'fans' that are gonna buy the skin (not even because they play the game, or main the champ, maybe these people rarely play league, but because of riot brainwash-like maneuver they get these poor childs to buy the most expensive single item in the game????)

[@lukastreurnich7893]

This is sad, because in the early days Riot really wanted to make the community happy, but just like Apple, they became the very thing they wanted to destroy.

[@c3ntravaswani427]

There won't be a shitstorm if the character is popular enough to sell skins. Lets face it, if they're making massive cash off of her then that means that the silent majority likes her. They know not to bother with the overwhelmingly loud minority.

[@Jechto1999]

@@lukastreurnich7893 Riot is literally giving the players what they want. They are using psychological tricks to tap into your deepest desires for relationships and selling it to you indirectly through this character, and the skins to come.

[@taelfayre6632]

It probably will, Yone exists, and since they announced 2 more champs people will probably start getting skeptical.

[@vld7759]

@@c3ntravaswani427 I mean, i hope its not just a vocal minority but i havent seen a single positive comment on reddit thread about her abilities

[@flamius1063]

I really dislike her design. She literally has a Star Guardian cosplay in canon Runeterra. She has NOTHING going for her in terms of P&Z aestethics, rather she feels completely out of place.

[@lefteron6804]

That's my main issue with her to be honest.

[@seph123]

She's a pop star she supposed to be out of place and different than normal fashions... To be recognized ..

[@flamius1063]

@@seph123 That's exactly the point I'm trying to make here. She's too flashy, and not enough P&Z-ey. Nothing she wears speaks of her heritage and culture. No steampunky aestethics or anything of the sort. Hell, look at the crowd! Leather jackets, wild hair styles, face paint-- all aspects of P&Z fashion are within the crowd, yet we have Sera over here looking like a Star Guardian reject!

[@weirdreportt]

@@flamius1063 facts. And the moment they made her Sona 2.0, it's just disappointing.

[@ripbozo5306]

Luka Ivkovic FAX

[@VitorAntas]

if they really wanted Seraphine to stand out, they'd make her a siren/mermaid champion. There's still space for that, Nami and Sona wouldn't be overlapped, her sillouette wouldn't also have an instrument-esque machine in the game model, and yet, her abilities still would need to be changed to not be Sona 2.0.

[@thegrimmestpeace]

I think this time Riot has really fucked up. I just don't understand, at all, what they were trying to do with this. They've made a fake internet persona, have her make tweets about real life issues and appear as just an artist having fun in a unique and unusual way. Some people might have connected with her, might have related to her, you know, viewed her as a person. And then they just pull this "oh btw she ain't real teehee". And while on paper that really doesn't sound like an issue, I have an acquaintance that actually connected with Seraphine and viewed her as more than just series of 0s and 1s, and was quite shaken by the discovery that they were wasting words, feelings and emotions on someone that does not even exist. And... it's unlikely they're the only one with an experience like that. Riot's done goofed, I say. Disregarding the fact that I am autistically screeching with my eyes leaving my eye sockets to try and permanently relocate to the ring of Saturn at the fact that she gets an Ultimate skin at release while our boy Ornn is standing strong with a total of one (1) skin in soon to be 4 years. Really lets you see clearly that Riot is picking favourites, this time more than ever. I don't even want to get deep into the hellhole that is her design. Not enough 200 years but just enough running low on ideas to make a champion that's essentially a carbon copy of another. Good job Riot, now rework Nocturne.

[@thegrimmestpeace]

@@LesserLordKusanali You're probably right, but hope dies last. I'm just holding onto the fact that there are going to be two reworks next year, Mundo and, hopefully, Nocturne. Or Shyvana.

[@thegrimmestpeace]

@@LesserLordKusanali I would be surprised if it's Olaf, but probably not disappointed. Surprised, because, unlike Nocturne, Olaf is seeing some pro play as well as moderate popularity. He was one of the dominant junglers some time back, along with Trundle. Until the Kha'Zix and Nidalee meta started.

[@thegrimmestpeace]

@@Exel3nce So is Evelynn, before she kills you. But seriously though, I bear no hatred towards Seraphine as a character, mostly just the way Riot handled her.

[@thegrimmestpeace]

@@Exel3nce I think her design just doesn't fit and although it is very unique, it is unique in the most terble way.

[@Angelica-sq9lh]

@@Exel3nce I believe she will be more fitting as a support than a midlaner. Like... completely use her kit you NEED to be close to a ally, even if you do full roaming, you loose big chunks of her potential.

[@SentientPalm]

Star Guardian Sona with extra steps 🤣

[@alienworld780]

Odisea with the buffs. You know the extra you could equip like R that bounced.

[@otterfire4712]

and nerfed breasts

[@Angelica-sq9lh]

SG Sona came to reality, just not the way we wanted

[@cactuwus._.]

SG Jinx + Sona= Seraphine

[@cactuwus._.]

We will be mad

[@NaueTV]

And I love how they updated Sona's lore, voice lines and give her a legendary skin and basically a whole event focused on her, to then throw her to the trashcan just like that.

[@pedrodewaal7040]

I got the Nautilus Anchor Sona for free from the loot box system lmao

[@dobyk5338]

I also feel very uncomfortable with Seraphine and the way she's lodged herself into so many people's minds. The way Riot has shamelessly used her to market the KDA skins and to foster this bizarre parasocial relationship, as you call it, is unsettling and insensitive. It exposes how much people want to connect online and to react and to comment for the sake of doing it. They want that dopamine hit that comes with interacting with a celebrity. And I know this is not the first time this tactic has been used, but its effectiveness is really scary, especially when you consider the target audience is adolescents and young adults.....

[@praexis1]

This makes Kai'Sa look like a well designed champion, and that's saying something.

[@gameguru42392]

What are you on about kaisa is dogshit.

[@mr.paperbag771]

I never understood what was the problem with Kai'Sa. Like why are people saying it's bad?

[@chilldash]

@@mr.paperbag771 he made two videos on her go check it out!

[@mr.paperbag771]

@@chilldash thanks for the heads up. I will.

[@Guille2033]

@@mr.paperbag771 a quick tldr: she is a survivor who lived for years in the Void who has no reason to look like a supermodel with perfect hair, 90/60/90 measures, glossy lips and a basically Spandex suit other than to sell based on pure sexual appeal, thus making her design quite dogshit

[@nygmus]

Obviously the answer is, they needed a new champion as a platform for an Ultimate K/D/A skin and it couldn't be Sona because Sona already had her Ultimate skin. Ergo, they give us Definitely Not Sona.

[@EYang-hl6hv]

“Oh man this TB skyen fellow is pretty cool, open, and honest about his brand and his insecurities. So relatable!His views and his personality align with my own! I guess I have to form a strange one-sided bond with this voice on a screen and subscribe to this “patr e on” thing in order to feel involved with his endeavors and to support him and hope he notices me.”

[@TBSkyen]

You joke but I worry about that shit daily

[@Verdgilion]

@@TBSkyen I hopestly don't think you should. With your choice of words and demeanor, you do a pretty good job to not take advantage of parasocial relationship to sell stuff, and overall you seem like like a person who doesn't want to create a parasocial relationship in the first place. You mention in this video what a) you do leverage this parasocial relationship and b) that's just how it is on this kind of platform, but from my point of view, a) you don't come off like that and b) I personally think, what just because you promote your stuff and use this platform, it doesn't mean what you automatically take advantage of people's emotions, because it takes an intention to do so. And with your videos, they seem professional in a sense that you put, intentionally or not, enough distance between yourself and a viewer, to not appear overly buddy-buddy and to take position at more appropriate distance from your viewers. Just some feedback.

[@raphaelhemery152]

@@TBSkyen I feel like writing "I LOVE YOU!!!" in response would potentially be a little too insensitive of a joke, heh?

[@eeemilia96]

She's like Barbie as a character. Made to sell dolls and merch, idolised girl in movies, games, tv shows, living her real life :D For example barbie makes official personal life vlogs in youtube these days

[@eeemilia96]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJ3HhWePftJsbNE

[@cractor6307]

buy a sad barbie (tm) now with xanax!

[@nilmerg]

taking into account her lore, she would have been infinitely more interesting if she was instead made a two-faced villain that exploited the songs she would be able to hear from the brackern to gain rise & fame. currently she seems like a contradictory mary-sue that can hear the souls of the brackern used in hextech yet uses the technology to power her magic hoverboard which makes her look more lazy & inconsiderate. oh but her voice "brings the people of piltover & zaun together" without actually contributing anything valuable to the conflict between both factions or addressing the issues that lead to the people's divide/class disparity/discrimination.

[@freetimeidiot4541]

Seraphine is made to be relatable to teenagers and young adults so Riot can milk her even more. Most people dont to relate to a villain, so they would drop 20 bucks on a release skin.

[@kratek56]

@@freetimeidiot4541 funny enough I relate more to viliains since they fully commit to their goals. Vilains do the exact same thing as hero yet ppl prefer the hero for being the hero. As kids we praise the heroes as adult we understand the vilains.

[@corlex4486]

​@@kratek56 Understand well-made villains, in a gray-zone like Thanos. If the villain is just "muahaha I will murder all of you" there's not all that much to relate to.

[@kratek56]

@@corlex4486I would say Nox from wakfu basically someone who got fcked by fate and decide that's enough and they will fulfill their goals. For nox he was a chronomage with a family but he discovered an artefacts that can amplify his power he went insane and his wife took the kids with her on another island. Later someone comes to nox house and tells him that an typhoon destroyed the other island and no one survived. He came to realization that the artifact destroyed his life as much as he destroyed it himself. Nox spent more than 200 years stealing life energy and storing it in mass to be able to go back in time and destroy the artefact. To him if he succeed all of is crimes and sins will never happen Anw. And he fails there is nothing for him in the world. He was able to time travel while fighting the Mc but didn't get it because the fight then they came to present but 20 mm earlier. With no mana left nox was persuaded that all of his 200 years of work was only for 20 minutes. He was broken and he cried admitting his defeat and the fact that all of his crimes are done for good. He killed himself on the grave of his family. Also the god of is race is not able to back in time he can only slow stop or accelerate. Thus proving that nox with is power and knowledge was way scarier than is own god.

[@corlex4486]

@@kratek56 Wish, quite the story. That does sound interesting.

[@Hotwopper]

This champ screams "money printing machine" Just look at her, all of her kit and character design feels like it was designed to sell skins, it has something from all the popular female champs (ahri, lux, sona) riot knows this and that's why it even has an ultimate skin

[@Foni_Cat]

Riot its doing a serious late capitalism void terror with that twitter account.

[@TheRealOtakuEdits]

@@Slashx92 Trust me, a lot of the same crowd that was hyped for her because of her twitter are just as disappointed with this reveal. Too much hype for something not very unique.

[@nikx]

Although I follow the account on twitter, too, everytime I see a tweet a shiver runs down my spine, because I know its not Seraphine, but a writer/social media team. I think this is definitely a case of uncanny valley, everything just seems unnaturally smooth. And for me that is the difference to vtubers. In most cases vtubers are a single person and do not only exist for promotion purposes. They are vtubers because they want to be and they more or less play the character because they chose so and/or their real personality overlaps with this character. Sera is just the facade and the whole thing from social media account to champ design leaves behind a weird taste. I still appreciate the music, art and narrative created over the past months.

[@nepotisphallus8839]

Don't mean to offend but it's spelt facade not fassade

[@nikx]

@@nepotisphallus8839 Damn it, the german version slipped in there. Thanks for the advice.

[@dj_koen1265]

You have to realize that vtubers are as much a business as any Company owned and bought actors and all It works i guess But Things like this do disconcern me a lot

[@calvin5426]

Even as someone not huge on vtubers, I see their appeal as overlays, characters people jump in to and play as. Seraphine you look at and just know there's nothing but a void. Every outfit she's wearing has been talked over by a couple of guys in a conference room. It's like the classic star industry just without, like, the actual stars so there's no boundaries to respect, no human element interference in crafting your perfect stage appearance.

[@Sinvm5fz]

yeah i unfollowed her on insta because as much as the drawings were cute and the cat was adorable, the interactions in her comment section just felt so unnerving.

[@storygoblin9864]

I'm wondering if Sona might be that Mystery Rework champion because of this? They're just soso similar, maybe she's getting redone to not be, uh, Mute Seraphine.

[@BodylessAndNowhere]

Udyr

[@aeroanosupremo]

@@BodylessAndNowhere or maybe Noc, either way it's a win to me

[@T2266]

Maybe they will ended up merge into one character, that'd be an interesting experiment if they dear to try that.

[@kiyomihattori6460]

@@aeroanosupremo Wouldn't mind if it was Zilean, imo.

[@aeroanosupremo]

@@kiyomihattori6460 i would be kinda sad if they reworked zilean bc they would need to get a new VA because the Portuguese from Brazil VA died, i like to play with or against Zilean because we can see his voice again

[@kekitoooo]

I'm sure she's gonna get a star guardian skin soon

[@rodrigokuszek]

Oh yeah, they are gonna milk her so badly is not even funny

[@KingAm0]

She's already a star guardian skin

[@CoconutButt]

NO

[@yaebiko00]

Or battle academia

[@remnantryku7112]

I’d wager she’s going to get a prestige KDA skin soon too.

[@machipoiyo1220]

I hate how shes compared to Zoe when Zoe has more personality than this cash grab mess

[@steffy2]

just wanna say: DONT FEEL BAD!!!!! you're providing a lot of entertainment and sometimes educational content to a ton of people . Wanting (and not even demanting) monetary compensation is more than reasonable , your videos make a lot of people really happy and get people hooked on the lore and character design so dont feel bad for just asking if people are able to support you a bit!

[@franciscos.2301]

I think he's also referencing the fact that people create emotional attachments to creators and it makes him very uncomfortable. I can understand that view.

[@morningpolaris7297]

this has somehow bled into k/da as well because I remember shortly after the TATU cover dropped the kda fandom fighting itself over ships (akali/evelynn vs akali/seraphine) so... yeah (speaking of forming relationships with fictional characters)

[@mophead_xu]

lmao at the mention of possible ""relationship"" between seraphine and akali in the vid i actually stopped what i was doing and was like "on god, that bitch ...." bc i ship akali and evelynn. i actually had to take another pause just to remind meself that regardless of how i feel about any of these characters, it's not real and i shouldnt get so worked up about it. so ... yah. that parasocial relationship is one hell of a creeping predator.

[@karisrahl4444]

I actually cried. I can't even process how the community is still so blind about this. It feels unfair when people lie about mental illness to manipulate us and get money from us. I'm not taken seriously with my BPD because everyone lies for attention nowadays, and to sell something. Sympathy baiting. I can't. I just don't know what the hell is wrong with humanity to fall this low.

[@dj_koen1265]

I feel also very emotionally disturbed by this Everything is just so disconcerning

[@LeviatanCh99]

I feel that's the point where they crossed the line. I mean, it's like you say: they try to manipulate people. They know it's a fantasy roleplay account, and yet there are some people who protect her and treat her better than they treat real people. It's disgusting. I know people who are insecure and have depression, myself included... I have no words... No excuses are enough for what they have been doing...

[@rbekker998]

Money is one root of all evil. In my opinion, money can change people drastically, to the point when you can't even recognize people who where once close to you..its sad...

[@TetramentTea]

Some of my favourites among the twitter scrolling: "you should draw yourself hotter" "Dw you ur gonna be a busted champ on release and everyone will love to play along side u for free lp" "egg" "Maam ur a drawing" "Poopoo" "onlyfans link?" I probably missed some more good ones, but hey, it's something.

[@DR3ADNOUGHT]

"egg" was godlike.

[@rommdan2716]

@@DR3ADNOUGHT WEEB EATER

[@edasch]

Someone wrote: Zeig busen (Show boobs ._.)

[@andreamarques9407]

@@edasch rule 34 will take care of that, probably already did

[@pweppo]

"ma'am ur a drawing" 💀

[@librastellium185]

"Popstars and Impostors." Lmao. I live for your intros.

[@_RKev]

Ok, but can we talk about how her character design really doesn't fit into Leagues normal design language, it looks way too much like Star Guardian, she is supposed to be from Zaun, but she really doesn't fit in it, well besides her platform that is Also, as said multiple times, my girl Sona was done dirty by Riot, we already knew that they have/had a hostile work environment against women in the company, but now it even extends into the game, fucking over female champions

[@billdrew7229]

@@Lolamy even zoe fits better than Seraphine does because at least they gave a reasonable explanation that she's from Targon Seraphine however, doesn't fit neither with the Piltover aesthetic nor with the Zaun aesthetic being that she's too sparkly for both of those location's aesthetics

[@thelonelyduck7267]

shes a "saint" of zaun, like Janna. Janna does not fit zaun at all because shes not a normally zaunite, neither is Seraphine.

[@thelonelyduck7267]

@@Lolamy zoe is a celestial being tho. Seraphine is literally just a pop star.

[@thelonelyduck7267]

@@billdrew7229 man i wish they made her come from targon.

[@billdrew7229]

@@thelonelyduck7267 it would have made more sense, yeah agreed

[@spiritofdarkness9839]

I don't like the whole deal with Sera because she got so much attention when so many, champs just get forgotten or just get released without any hype

[@tastypeeper2881]

qiyana releasing at the same time as tft ptsd

[@brisbronko2888]

Samira got one video pain.

[@xGumiho]

@@LesserLordKusanali camille got her own comic strip tho which is a unique way to tease/reveal her

[@thinkfighttalk2403]

Lillia got drop kicked by Yone.

[@TigerKirby215]

Yone gets 15 minutes of anime, Seraphine gets a Twitter account, Lillia and Samira just get dropped on the client without fanfare

[@JollibeenosHasYourCoordinates]

I think a comment I saw before encapsulates it all... "Seraphine is the first skin to have a champion"

[@NaueTV]

The funny thing is how they don't even mention Sona in Seraphine's Champion Insights... As they did with Sivir and Samira. So sad...

[@giulia1361]

Wait Sivir and Samira are related?

[@Aldoz]

BLNKU They’re both Shuriman mercenaries

[@giulia1361]

@@Aldoz Oh I thought Samira is a Noxian.

[@Aldoz]

BLNKU She works a lot in Noxus, which is why all her gear is Noxian

[@alessandroseverino8222]

@@giulia1361 Born in shurima, her city got destroyed and then grew up in a mercenary group of noxus

[@vjgodlybang]

It is a very, “Not even you are immune to propaganda,” situation, and it is getting much more expansive in marketing as a general consumer of entertainment.

[@sevenaries]

I was excited when they said they were releasing a "sensational mage" for mid so I learned mid, and then what I get is support sona reworked with a bit of lux

[@ziv3336]

exactly what i did too :*(

[@adrianrandom3448]

And if you play her mid like 40% of her kit becomes useless, how is she meant to be played mid too?

[@Goodheartless]

Luis R. Jebaited

[@Jaynesslessly]

to be fair sona is busted whenever she can solo lane and is only held back by no waveclear, which seraphine definitely has in her E and Q it seems. so shes definitely capable of going mid

[@Goodheartless]

Jayness good luck wave clearing with a Zed or talon lmao

[@hanlee3345]

U sound like such an honest and humble human being! If only there were more YT-bers in the industry like this. U deserve more subs!!!

[@pienoaji]

shoutout to that one single tweet I saw in the whole thread you scrolled by at 15:11 which said "ma'am you're a drawing." absolute king shit

[@chasec.8710]

Belle-Seraphine. Making buying RP SIMPler.

[@cesarvertigokikiri8342]

If she was an actual siren, the gamer girl bath water meme would be better

[@The_Hatt]

Fr idk how people dont see it

[@CRSB00]

I have several things to this: 1 they won't remake sona beacuse making a new champ will sell, remaking sona won't. 2 I do think that most people following Seraphine's Twitter are aware that she is not a real person, but that won't stop them from interacting as if she were (a real person) because of a psychological need most people have to interact to other people, specially if that some one seems to have problems. 3 I kind of understand why "Seraphine" has never and probably never will break character as doing so would "break the spell" as one would say and not what her audince wants. 4 I hope Seraphine's voice actress gets credit with credit's due. 5 Most youtube channels, blogs or other social media do this (specially if it is person focus ex: PewdiePie) these people we see are not the real person behind the lens but a character in order to sell us a product (the product in these cases being the interaction with the channel's face) of course some being more honest about it than others.

[@sebwalk8179]

The thing I cant stand the most is the pink hair. First, there is no unique hairstyle or design with it. Second, it is the exact same color as her indie KDA skin, and it makes them look super similar. Third, all of the characters in Piltover are relatively normal looking besides the steampunk aesthetic, so she feels like she doesn't fit there. Champs from Zaun have wild hair colors because it reflects their grungy punk theme. Vi having pink hair makes perfect sense because she lived in Zaun but made her way up to Piltover. She is still a rebel at heart, and her unique hair style and color helps her stand out amongst the rest of the cast. So, what statement are they trying to make about Seraphine with her hair? She grew up in the lap of luxury in Piltover, and all of her problems were solved by her parents' money. She isn't punk AT ALL, and she doesn't look like she belongs in Piltover or Zaun.

[@untherzenguianan2292]

Do real life popstars look like they belong in the crowd?😊 No right? I kinda understand your point but remember, she's supposed to capture attention, a sensation, so that pink hair doesnt seem too strange.

[@sebwalk8179]

@@untherzenguianan2292 Like, that is a fair point, but ultimately it is a way weaker design choice than say Vi. For Vi, it gives us an insight into her past and her mindset, but all that Seraphine's hair tells us is that she is an anime protagonist. Even from a popstar angle, she feels weird in P or Z. She has glittery thigh highs and bubblegum pink hair, no aspect of her design gels with the aesthetics of P or Z except her hoverboard kind of. Looking at Legends of Runeterra, there is the Chempunk Shredder card, and he looks like he belongs in Zaun.

[@anthonyrodriguez9232]

@@sebwalk8179 She is originally from Zaun I believe.

[@aurorajipa9802]

@@untherzenguianan2292 I really want to know where she got the sparkles for the dress in a steampunk Victorian region, maybe you can explain me

[@sebwalk8179]

@@anthonyrodriguez9232 No, her parents were from Zaun, she grew up in Piltover.

[@eternalmec3777]

Respect. There are two dogmas when looking at businesses: 1. When money is involved, businesses don't have friends. 2. If you wanna sell something, don't market a product. Promote a feeling. I never thought of applying the second one to youtubers as well but now that you pointed it out it is painstakingly obvious to me how everyone is doing it. And I gotta say I deeply respect your honesty and the way you handled the topic. I am now considering supporting you on patron (ironic, isn't it?)

[@dj_koen1265]

But that promote a feeling things is exactly the bs that makes commercials so off puting and uncanny If i were a self respecting company i would advertise my Products for what they are and Whats good about it

[@KnightofShadows]

@@dj_koen1265 I hear you, and empathetically that would be the absolutely moral decision to make, but businesses think logically-how can I best sell a product to the biggest group of idiots? And judging by the creation of the vast number of fans to this champ, Riot figured it out.

[@ephriell]

"There is no Easter Bunny, There is no Tooth Fairy, and there is no @serodotwav"

[@b.bird.]

Seraphine's base model looks like a bootleg Star Guardian skin from Mobile Legends I've never been this disappointed

[@b.bird.]

To be fair, I understand from where the design choice comes from. Popstars in general wear flashy dazzling clothes, have long hair in crazy colors and I can see that inspiration in her character design, but man, they made her too modern even for Piltover which draws from steampunk aesthetics

[@thegrayyernaut]

@@b.bird. Riot: Noxus is invading Ionia. Piltover mines Crystals from a race of Giant Sand Scorpions. Sylas escaped from prison and is leading a mage revolt in Demacia. Udyr fought Lovecraftian Volibear. Shurima in disarray. Ryze is thin Thanos. Let's make a pop-star character.

[@rKhael53]

I don't think it's a good choice but IF her out of place design is voluntary? She wants to unite the two cities, so maybe her look transcend Zaun and Piltover metal aesthetic to something more aethereal? Also, clothed like that, she seems like an angel. Which violently contrast the moral ambiguity of letting brackerns and zaunites kinda agonizing for technological purpo

[@b.bird.]

@@rKhael53 I see your point but she looks nothing like Zaun or Piltover

[@NayaM0]

I'm one of the stupid non-13-y-olds who kinda bought seraphine's act in the beginning. Back when she had a few hundred followers and posted a lot about herself, I thought about the possibility that the idea of the account was the following: there is a person managing seraphine's account, and she might even be the singer behind the character, and what she's doing is intense roleplay, while ever so slightly injecting her own personality and hardships into the tweets. I also imagined that the body they always use to create (by photoshoping sera's face on top of the real picture) the seraphine photos was this tweeter manager's body (that could excuse the posts about how insecure she used to be about her own body). I think I started to think about it in this way to cope with how awkward this whole marketing stunt looked. "If her words, feelings and pictures are all kind of authentic, if they really belong to a real person, maybe this account is not that weird and potentially predatory". But once her twitter acc skyrocketed into popularity, I couldn't look at it the same way anymore. The idea of it being somewhat genuine just shattered as more and more "Seraphine stans" crowded and cheered around everything she posted. It's still a really fascinating marketing ploy, but I don't feel that great about it.

[@normanbear]

The Twitter... I'm actually don't know if they still think she's not a real person I'M SCARED

[@CookieCryptid]

I think the part that hurts the most when they queerbait with the t.A.T.u song, is that it's the part that feels the most on the nose of the "we know what we're doing, and we know you know we know" about the whole Seraphine is a person thing, since they're baiting with what at the time ALSO was a bait. Like it's almost mean how they use what little sapphic representation we had at the time (and we loved it in spite of it's history because that's what there was for us when we were really young), and then they go and use it again for the same bait?? Sad. In a positive note, your comments about other supporting online creators over time helped me support other creators (and your own patreon lol) to the extent of what I can, and helped remove the guilt I felt of subscribing to people and spending money, into realising I'm paying to support the content I consume.

[@Xedlord]

What? Edit: Oh nevermind, I hadn't watched the whole vid yet.

[@cannedyumyum]

I'm really surprised that none of the comments I saw address what you said about your own parasocial relationship to your audience in this video. I knew you were someone who thinks about things a lot, but it's nice to know that you are genuinely really reflective and introspective. I appreciate your honesty, and I really liked the commentary on commodification and non-transparent marketing tactics. Thank you.

[@dj_koen1265]

Whats your motivation for having a punpun profile pick I have seen them float around frequently and wonder why that is the case

[@Daniel-zg5mb]

Oh thank you! I've been talking about this for weeks. It has made me so uncomfortable to see all these posts that clearly exploit common personal struggles, identity issues, and doubts and then so many people eat it up.

[@essneyallen6777]

That neverending scroll of supporting comments got me. That we as humans have this potential for care and empathy and love, and it doesn't even matter that the recipient is fictional or non existent, if help is asked we will be there. It makes it all the more *ghoulish* that a corporation knowingly exploits that urge for empathy. That they would seek to monetize the human capability for love. It's disgusting. So this whole mess flips between uplifting and abysmally disgusting like a lenticular card.

[@TheChangeling13]

I'm not one of those who knew. I only found out the other day that she wasn't real. I'm not part of the league of legends fanbase, never played the game. I know about it because my husband has played it, but otherwise I know literally nothing. I got to know Seraphine through the songs I heard from someone who reposted her League of Legends covers on youtube. That's all I ever knew. I just knew she made awesome covers that I really liked and when I saw that K/DA More video that featured her, I was really excited that a fan got to be included... And then I was slapped in the face by videos cropping up of the fanbase hating her. I didn't understand, so I looked into it... and I find out she's been planned from the start. She was never real, she was a marketing strategy, and not even a good one. A clever one, sure, not but a good one. A fraud in fact for people like me. So now I am left reeling from that realization and now I feel like K/DA is a guilty pleasure and I feel shame for even liking that music. I have reservations and criticisms on the music, sure but I genuinely liked it. But this... this is upsetting to me. As someone outside of the fanbase who had no idea what was going on, I feel lied to and betrayed. Maybe I have no right to feel that way, being outside a fanbase I really have no business being in since I have no intention of playing... but it hurts, and it now feels like what it is... a marketing strategy specifically made to lure people in, and I genuinely believe that a lot of those people on her twitter account don't actually know she isn't real, like I did. And now her existence feels fake to me. If she had been a real fan who was incorporated into the game because people liked her, I think that would have been one thing. This is entirely another and it isn't fair, not to outsiders like me and not to the real fans, the people on the inside. I appreciate the insight that you've given here, and thanks for helping me become disillusioned. Sucks that it has to happen, but thanks all the same.

[@johanneisenach8825]

"some people are trollling" 14:29 (twitter user)"you should draw yourself hotter"

[@ihaveaquestiontothegodwhy1669]

Your gonna be suprised that she's neither from zaun nor piltover nor targon, in fact, she is an anomaly, a missing link, a complete question mark on runeterra and the entire realm, she is that non cosmic anomaly that exist.

[@alessandroseverino8222]

Or in short "yes cause yes", or simply marketing and peoduct placement... Where the latter make more sense

[@ihaveaquestiontothegodwhy1669]

@@alessandroseverino8222 well that's partialy true, but lore wise, seraphine is the gateway for new posibilities, since she's the anomaly that nobody even suspects . . . . . . And she can pose somewhat of a threat, if they can do this story right.

[@crimson1194]

Isekai Protagonist

[@alessandroseverino8222]

@@ihaveaquestiontothegodwhy1669 Well all the skinlines are allready gateway from the main runeterra lore, while the main skin is tied to where it belong. Aswell Ahri and Yasuon traveling to bilgewater can bring a huge twist and "feel correct" or more reasonble. While this one defy so many past knowedge; zaunites are pretty common folks oppressed most of the time by the Chembarons (wich still pales near the rich people of Piltover), so hardly one can just straight up move from a getto to such places by just sell everything. Even less then get such fine hextek tecnology and use it just as a stage for share her music... Meanwhile we have Sona on the other side having a little tend in rural part of Demacia making a little concert (then flee cause the mage seekers find her secret). Vi raise from Zaun to Piltover is due a redemption story, from criminal to 'hero' then Caitlin offer her a job as a cop; Ekko get spotted by Heimer for his genius and actions... So once again to me the whole story of Sera is like riddled with plotholes just for put here where she is, yet feel so out of place since the basic skin looks so much as a star guardian and the other one is pretty much in our universe (caming out right away with a ultimate skin just cause tied to the kda and saw allready how many people simp her over said twitter account)

[@ihaveaquestiontothegodwhy1669]

@@alessandroseverino8222 your right in that one, in fact that's the point on seraphine's lore, she should never exist in the first place let alone be in runeterra, sure she looks like an idol but going to her interactions with skarner (which btw is a shocker) that means she already existed waaaay before all of these events, so she's basically our antagonist in this story disguised as a bubbly annoying idol character. Now that's some something to ponder with, don't you think

[@Zakading]

"You should draw yourself hotter" My man

[@sirduckoufthenorth]

Something is "off" about her and her tweets, uncanny

[@Megumi646]

Yeah, that's why I don't look at that Twitter. It's just unethical. I've been there when I was a very depressed teenager. I could form a connection with anything. I'm in a lot of debt because of it.

[@PlanADidntWorkOut]

Rough, hope things are better for you now. =( The biggest reason I don't like Seraphine is: I don't like Pop Stars/Celebrities. It's weird, in my mind I'm not even that upset about how Seraphine's release has been handled, with the 'Ultimate' skin (lol no), Twitter posts and Riot telling us 'she's actually really empathetic and genuine you should like her'. I'm much more uncomfortable with how *perfectly* all that imitates what a Celebrity is; Their purpose, and what kinds of people they appeal to, then influence.

[@Megumi646]

As a Sona main, I can't complain. Gives me something to play when she's banned.

[@nishiahochi4905]

that's that's actually a good point holy shit

[@helgenlane]

Why would anyone ban Sona, lul

[@Megumi646]

@@helgenlane she could be broken in Wood V

[@Angel_Dusk02]

@@Megumi646 Nobody plays her in low elo

[@Wearierbeast532]

I can only complain about how new champs just feel like a ditto type of champ

[@fluffy41334]

I feel like the most successful iteration of this type of “influencer” is lilmiquela on instagram, she claims to be a robot although everybody is pretty sure she’s just cgi of a real person. it’s interesting because she makes music, will make posts on politics, etc and has millions of followers. it makes me wonder how digital influencers will effect the future

[@orbweaving]

Lilmiquela is also fucked up for creating a false manipulative story about being sexually assaulted.... Of all things, I cannot believe the managers had the gall for that

[@mophead_xu]

god i remember lilmiquela. at first i thought it was an actual person roleplaying a character displayed irl with cgi. so when ""news"" broke about how she's been manipulated and taken advantage of by her management, i thought people meant whoever was behind that character. but no, people meant the character itself, the """AI robot""" with consciousness. fuck that. fuck that shit and fuck people who get overly upset over so called ""exploitation"" of not even a real entity but above all fuck lilmiquela's company and management for creating all that stunts in the first place.

[@mini_high]

See? This is why garen be yelling justice when he ults these new champions

[@kennethoken4696]

@15:11 "ma'am you're a drawing" the only thing that made me laugh in this sad situation

[@RenZeffie]

“There’s still a person in there, there’s still a level of transparency around the artifice.” This is why, as I was getting into HoloMyth, I couldn’t find myself getting excited in the same way for Seraphine. There’s also (apologies, I’m a Marxist) the complete disconnect between labor and commodity that *is* Sera. I know the performance of Calliope Mori and her musical content is the product of her actress. Whether intentional or not, Riot created a champion who is marketed as if she was a very real person, but who is almost completely disconnected from the labor that brought her into existence. This further devalues labor, in my opinion. I still don’t even know who provides her voice, despite being marketed for months.

[@Jechto1999]

I genuinely curious about what you more precisely mean about "Disconnect between labour and product". Isn't this incredibly common in today's society. When i buy a new phone, i don't explicitly think about the child/slave labour that went into the crafting of the phone. I dont see how Sera is anymore disconnected from labour and product, than any other mass made product

[@RenZeffie]

@@Jechto1999 It definitely is common, but I was specifically referring to virtual/fictional idols in this case. That's on me, I wasn't clear enough. I'm a huge fan of virtual idols, but typically despite being virtual it's made very clear that these characters are the product of labor and not real. For example, Ranka Lee's singles are not credited with "Ranka Lee" for the vocals, they're credited as "Ranka Lee=Megumi Nakajima." Ranka would not exist without Megumi (or Yoko Kanno, for that matter). To me, Sera is even less connected to the labor that created her than other virtual idols since she's being portrayed as if she were a real person. Kind of like a smartphone, there's no moment to think about whose labor allowed Seraphine the idol to exist, when this has not historically been the case with virtual idols except for maybe Hatsune Miku (but Miku is a different case I'd argue as the labor of whoever is producing her song is recognized instead of the provider of Miku's voicebanks herself--you don't think of "Melt" as a Miku song, you think of it as a Ryo/Supercell song). I'm not saying that *all* of the labor that goes into creating an idol is credited (which is a problem in an of itself and frankly exploitation in both the virtual and real idol industries is a HUGE problem that one could write a dissertation on) but historically someone's been credited and recognized for their work. I know I wrote an essay I just have a lot of feelings about virtual idols!

[@timli41]

if I'm not mistaken, Seraphine is voiced by Jasmine Clarke. But the fact that I had to do some digging and still not sure about it (and this might only be true for the upcoming EP not the in game voice), just further proves your point

[@Jechto1999]

@@RenZeffie Even so, isn't this also the case with some VTubers too? Some VTubers are pretty good actors and don't ever let the mask slip. For me personally, I see Sera the same way I see most VTubers. It's a human putting on an act in order to form a monetizable parasocial relationship.

[@RenZeffie]

Jechto I only know the recent EN Hololive group, so I can’t speak for how hard all Vtubers sell it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some who sold it much harder than others. It’ll be interesting (and terrifying) to see whether more of that will happen in the future, and if those that do end up being more successful.

[@Steel_Prophet]

Yes, seraphine is different from sona, just as much as "surprise mechanics" are different from loot boxes. In regards to the Ad campaign for seraphine, it feels hollow, and way too close to the "Burger King donation ad" debacle.

[@Steel_Prophet]

@@LesserLordKusanali oh yeah, forgot she stole DJ Sona's turntable and threw sparkles on it.

[@morganjary]

Seraphine and Sona have more in common that Aatrox and old Aatrox. ... and somehow it was the same designer for both of those...

[@Guleimbesat]

When seraphine popped up I honestly thought, "Seems like one of those 2d dating simulations"

[@korbitror]

I appreciate your candidness, Skyen, even if you can't afford to be so all the time. I'm also an artist and I constantly feel like I have to put on a mask on social media, it sucks. Feels like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[@andresalgado9375]

She is a perfect representation of what capitalism can be. Everyone knows her kit is a perfect Sona rework, but Sona isn't popular and they need to sell skins, so they made this character instead of reworking Sona, since they presume Sona wouldn't sell many skins.

[@atocanboi409]

"hey, you know what would really bring back our reputation after the fucked up client and 200years meme? Let's tease a champion for over a month." "yeah and than we come out with this amazing completely unique super fun champ that we've had time to playtest so we're sure there aren't any balance issues or bu-" "wtf are you talking about?" "...well we have to live up to the hype" "of course not! just release that star guardian Sona with the Sona rework we had in the works, make her a KDA and release her into the game and no one will notice!" "I mean why work at this point" "EXACTLY" -Riot HQ

[@sandortojzan5409]

I'm not sure if it's just me, but this sounds exactly like something Thorsten would say in his videos. (And I'm not saying that as a criticism. That guy is brilliant, and so is this comment :D)

[@atocanboi409]

@@sandortojzan5409 I do not know who Thordsten is but if this is what he does I'm gonna check him out

[@sandortojzan5409]

@@atocanboi409 Sry, I misspelled his name, it doesn't have the letter D in it. Other than that he is a pretty new youtuber that makes some fun parodies about Riot. And he looks like a viking as well.

[@simplestickland3367]

Sir I just subbed to you. Thank you for talking about this.

[@noceur7081]

i felt it , i didnt want to start doing homework until i finish this rant

[@vystlgames]

So is anyone else curious about how KDA (Kaisa and the Dancing Assassins) has Seraphine, a support champion, joining them?

[@skipmanghondarg]

Good one

[@amandaslough125]

Oh look, you can now play an entire KDA comp. Sera even works better than Sona because her ult range increases via front lining teammates who like to dash in past your reach.

[@phantasmic1000]

Sona is one of my favorite champions,and i cant really play her because i may as well play a different support to get things done. And then riot just releases her and gives her practically the same lore but with dead brakkan magic. I'm not mad because she's cute and stuff and she looks fun,im just upset that Sona is being kicked in the face

[@Hackettt]

I am here for the ramble, I’m sure I will enjoy.

[@90bubbel60]

it honestly disgusts me that this marketing stunt is getting more support than many real and struggling people

[@cenfre2866]

That's what annoys me the most. What a spit to the face for real people with mental illnesses.

[@laranitaloca6913]

Imagine if she wanst going to be a champ and we were harrasing a random artist

[@LaskerDev]

Lmao

[@tehawsumninja]

Was just waiting for this. From literally the first 3 second skit, I know I'm gonna vibe with this. Thanks as always for being so fast on this stuff Skyen

[@MangoDruid]

When I saw Seraphine's reveal, I immediately thought of your channel and what you might say about her (after looking at the negative responses everywhere else). I'm impressed how fast you got this video out!

[@TheUmbranGeek]

Sera low key was a slap to the face for me and probably other Sona mains. Like Riot was like here’s some reworked lore, oop how about a reworked voice pack, oh and a legendary skin.... OH HEY SERAPHINE

[@okean28]

I don't know why, but the part where you were talking about how Seraphine isn't a real person and the mayority of people that interact with her know this, made me cry. Just a little bit.

[@jinxthememer3118]

The way you called out league roleplayers are brutal. I felt attacked.

[@aptalsandvic5355]

In my opinion Riot has already crossed the line multiple times just with Seraphine. They are a big cooperation that are going to make billions no matter what and them doing this is disgusting. I don't even want to play this game anymore, it's just feels wrong. AND IT'S NOT JUST SERAPHINE. Posting about Kai'sa finding herself and doing ballet, Evelynn's incedibely manipulative message, posting about Ahri not being perfect... I'm so disgusted right now and i feel ashamed of the fact that i bought a skin.

[@asphyxia8700]

Wait Kaisa and Ahri and so on have a "real" account too on twitter now?

[@aptalsandvic5355]

@@asphyxia8700 No but the Kda twitter account shared inspirational stuff ''said'' by them.

[@ThKvhh]

Strangely with Ahri and Akali didn't feel like they did that, since they actually referenced someone who exists as a person and had that struggle, Ahri's whole scheme is solely based on (G)I-DLE's Miyeon career and Akali respectively on (G)I-DLE's Soyeon. At least there's something "real" about it Kai'Sa and Evelynn on the other hand don't connect to real life relatable stories but their fictional lore, grew fictional, developed fictional; which make them as fake as Seraphine, but the biggest gap between them and Seraphine is the fact they had a proyect stablished before (Original K/DA skins) unlike Seraphine who comes from nowhere, is nobody, and still tries to mock an audience into a project she didn't age with despite that. TL;DR Riot just tried to replicate the K-pop industry strategy of parasocial relationships but failed badly in the way.

[@Ajehy]

Thank you for talking to us as a creator and a person about the realities of your job. It means a lot, especially for those of us trying to break into creative fields. You have my respect.

[@jimby7080]

that "popstars and imposters" got me scared for the video lmao

[@nonamiyazomo8907]

now i feel weirdly alienated. because i honestly like her design and game play design. I liked the cover of popstars and while i didn't follow the twitter account i find the idea cute. idk maybe its just trying to grasp and little things that make me happy like the whole thing around seraphine in this shit storm for a year 2020 has been.

[@kingsteel2972]

this is like that penguin who fell in love with a penguin anime girl

[@theaeon]

First of all: such a good video again, so many insights and things I hadn't considered yet! Secondly: Please, please, please don't feel bad about your little spiel at the end of the video! You make this amazing content that brings joy, entertainment and also eductional value to a lot of people. You deserve all the love, attention and money you get for it. And honestly, you deserve more money hahaha. You're not pressuring people, you're not unfairly leveraging the parasocial relationship you have with your viewers, you're giving a gentle and completly justified reminder that people can support you and other creators and that is a ok, completely fine, please shout it from the rooftops.

[@anem4774]

It was only a matter of hours before Skyen got to Sona 2 .

[@pippip4911]

Its really weird, because back when KDA appeared the first time i was really excited, and hoped they will become a real project on their own and become some sort of Hatsune Miku or even Gorillaz kinda band. And im so glad they came back and making and EP...but the Seraphine thing feels so insincere for some reason, as if they went too far in trying to convince you to get into it lol

[@pippip4911]

It does feel with those Sera tweets that they are making fun of influencers who share their mental health issues lol

[@SzoSzn]

Am I the only one who’s been aware of the marketing ploy the whole time; and couldn’t help but be impressed seeing it come together in real-time? The hype built around her, the connection to kda, her debut skin being an ultimate skin... I’m just in awe 🤣

[@rbekker998]

Do not confuse shock with awe my friend :)

[@JunebugKnight]

14:10 To be fair I didn't know Seraphine wasn't a real person I thought she was a youtuber that did covers of songs and because her cover of KDA Popstars went viral they added her in the game Ig, which is insane. The fact that she isn't a real person makes much more sense now, so yeah.