Microsoft just gave up C/C++ (use Rust!)

Big news! Microsoft just decided to go full force on Rust! What does this mean for Rust developers like you and me?

[@andrewgr144]

I worked with Dave Weston for years, back when I was at Microsoft. He came up through the technical ranks by specializing in security. It doesn't surprise me that Dave would drive something like this; memory management vulnerabilities took up a huge amount of his time for years, he's wicked smart, and has the self-confidence to make a big decision once he's convinced it's right.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

MS once said in a talk that 70% of all Windows vulnerabilities were memory bugs that Rust can prevent. I can see how it's a no-brainer for them, it's the most cost-efficient way to improve security in a long time. And Google also just announced that they rewrote a core component of Android in Rust and it'll likely be one of the first Rust drivers added to the Linux kernel.

[@letsgetrusty]

Awesome insight. Thank you for sharing!

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

@@SaHaRaSquadThe 66-70% seems to be common to OSes and browsers. Google published some interesting stats re Android a while back showing the effectiveness of Rust.

[@danielgysi5729]

Ngl, this video is pretty sloppy. "Linux kernel" with a picture of Windows 11, no references in the description to any of the sources shown, and the title is just a straight up lie. Tell me how commiting $10 million to Rust is equivalent to "giving up C/C++" for the entirety of Microsoft. If you're going to clickbait for views with a bad video about a single tweet, at least drag it out for 10 minutes to get the midroll ads. Overall I'm disappointed.

[@fredrik140]

He's a youtuber. What did you expect?

[@indiesigi7807]

He also has no experience with c++ nor rust. Webdevs seem to have very strong opinions on systems languages.

[@not_ever]

@@fredrik140 Not all youtubers are this shit but for those who are, thankfully youtube give us the option to "don't recommend channel".

[@fredrik140]

@@not_ever That's true. I had a shitty day and I apologize to @letsgetrusty. Uncalled for and you are doing a great thing for the Rust community. When you had to write your opinion on paper and snail mail it, there was time for thinking it thru.

[@xshady2967]

@@indiesigi7807 ?

[@mileselam641]

I think you meant Windows kernel. Linux kernel was separate and older news.

[@iMetmor]

A freudian slip. ]:-)

[@letsgetrusty]

Yes my mistake!

[@andrewgr144]

@@letsgetrusty Really? I assumed you were referring to the Linux subsystem built into Windows, which seems like a more tractable problem. As far as I know, they haven't announced that they're rewriting any of Windows in Rust yet, only Azure, which is a separate code base. Having worked on Windows code for years, my intuition would be that it would be very hard to convert piecemeal; you'd need to work out how to handle memory management for arguments to tens of thousands of API calls, and in most cases I think you'd wind up losing a lot of the memory safety that Rust gives you, because you'd need to manually assert that you're responsible for memory management. It's like a chicken-and-egg problem, where you need to do the library APIs and the clients that use those APIs simultaneously, which makes it hard to sort of "ease into" transitioning languages. I haven't been at Microsoft for 6+ years, and it's been 20-ish years since I had a role that required me to check code into the Windows source code, so I could be talking out my butt here, but using Rust for self-contained services in Azure seems much more do-able as a first step than rewriting Windows libraries or executables.

[@armuc6941]

what about C# ?

[@EbonySeraphim]

$10 million is actually only a penny in Microsoft's pockets. Though if we're talking investment value going directly to engineering + tech documentation, if I pretend the average engineer's compensation is $200k at Microsoft, $10mill is 50 engineers for a year or 25 for 2 years? That can build some serious tooling, core libraries, and frameworks in Rust.

[@communismwizard8198]

You’re forgetting all the project managers making 500k to micromanage a team of 5

[@letsgetrusty]

Good analysis!

[@DJenriqez]

@@communismwizard8198 200K will go for cocaine, to make 10 engineers handle it on overtime in half year :D

[@lhd7105]

Guido van Rossum probably gets paid $5 million to $10 million a year (assuming his salary keeps going up). Think of how much Microsoft paid for a recent game dev house. Or how much it paid for Github. $11 millions is not really taking safe computing seriously. Just think of how many projects Google has cancelled that are worth more than $11 million.

[@lhd7105]

Microsoft is probably between a rock and a hard place. Rust is hot potato. Just think. What could Rust do? It could cut down drastically the amount of malware attacks. Infiltration. Security vulnerabilities. So the bad guy loses. Great! But what about the good guys? The powerful security agencies of some of the largest countries in the world _depend_ on the very same vulnerabilities to keep tabs or subvert the efforts of their favorite "bad actors" of the day. So the good guys also lose. Or do they? Would they let the situation ever get that far? So I think good security has nothing but enemies. The bad guys hate good security. So too the good guys. And so any project that promotes good security very much need us to cherish and cradle them to fruition. Because they are gonna be all alone. From OpenBSD to Rust--good security has nothing but enemies.

[@MarshallRosenstein]

They need to add Rust support in Visual Studio projects if they're serious about it.

[@ChrisFlyChannel]

Absolutely true

[@m.f.mfazrin8720]

I think Rust Rover is better IDE

[@MarshallRosenstein]

@@m.f.mfazrin8720 Maybe so, but that is JetBrain's product. They also produce Rider, but people wouldn't take .NET seriously if Microsoft didn't support it in their own flagship IDE. I'm looking forward to v1.0 of Rover.

[@Guilhem34]

​@@m.f.mfazrin8720maybe but it is lay more complicated to add Rust in Windows compared to Linux. You need VS and a compiler and a kidney to make it work...

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

Yes, there’s been a long user voice request for this. There is a third party Rust extension but I was never able to get it to work. But given this new announcement of “1st Class” support that means we will now see official VS integration. The fact JetBrains have their Rust Rover must surely spur them? Plus VS integration will make Rust experimentation more attractive to existing Microsoft developers. Think Azure Cloud and WebAssembly.

[@testtest-qm7cj]

The quote 0:02 "Microsoft has decided to abandon C and C++, and go full force on Rust." cannot be true. What do you even mean by "abandon" or "go full force" in that sentence? Loving your favorite toy is one thing, but wasting everyone's time with false information is another.

[@dankkush5678]

Is it their official company announcement or just something that guy from Microsoft said in a conversation? Not judging just dont see it in the news

[@GordonChil]

Yeah, and showing “Windows 11 + Rust” while saying “rust officially made its way into the Linux kernel”. They are officially confused.

[@vikingthedude]

yup doesn't look credible@@GordonChil

[@danielgysi5729]

Agreed. All the points already mentioned plus he didn't include the sources in the description so it's a pain to verify what little he did show. Very sloppy reporting

[@letsgetrusty]

It was announced at a conference talk by the VP of security and enterprise at Microsoft.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

@@GordonChilI think that was a mistake in the presentation.

[@alphapku8450]

Glad to hear this. Been using Rust for personal projects for 2 years, it is really worth investing

[@anesugangarahwe3766]

Hi which resources do you recommend for learning rust after doing the book?

[@MrBmxerFTW]

​@@anesugangarahwe3766 "rust by example" and try redoing/completing old projects you might have in rust.

[@sharkpyro93]

@@anesugangarahwe3766 "zero to production in rust" by Luca Palmieri

[@kieransweeden]

This is awesome! I did begin learning Rust but a major contributor to me not continuing was the seemingly bleak amount of rust-related job opportunities here in the U.K.

[@tomwilliam7299]

same problem 😁😅

[@Redyf]

it will take some time but rust will eventually dominate the market

[@biomorphic]

No, it will not. It will remain confined to operating systems, drivers, blockchain and services (daemons, servers). It will not make into the enterprise market. Maybe it will gain traction in video games, but that will take 15 years at least, because there is too much C++ code. People will not use Rust for the web, where PHP, Java and .NET are the dominant languages, and machine learning and math, where Python is king. For years it will play side by side with C and C++, then eventually it will take over these two languages, only. Even though C will still be there in 30 years, because some parts of the kernel (Linux and Windows as well) won't get touched. As much as I hate Java and GC languages in general, I don't see Rust replacing them any soon. And a lot of people are building stuff in Go, which is a crap, but it's much easier than Rust. I don't see Go, going away any soon.@@Redyf

[@tomwilliam7299]

@@Redyf could you be my free monitor? because I am just a beginner

[@theintjengineer]

I am still kind of learning it - both in LGR's Bootcamp and also doing it along with AWS to make it more interesting. But, when it comes to Jobs, same situation here in Germany. Close to none. Whereas C++ has like, yes, you got it. When Rust finally makes it to having a sea of job opportunities, C++ will be like at C++26, which does promise to be a really neat release, and again, will keep retaining SWEs. To be honest, if C++ had Pattern Matching and that Async support, features on which folks are working right now, then I'd probably stick with C++ anyways. There is even this Bloomberg Guy working on a Networking Library, which works with Senders and Receivers, Coroutines, etc.

[@ericbwertz]

I'll believe it when I start seeing references to Rust# -- then I'll know that it's been fully embraced and extended in standard Microsoft fashion.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

That’s not going to happen, and you’re clearly living in the past.

[@Reinaldulin]

does typescript ring a bell?@@kevinmcfarlane2752 microsoft WILL embrace and EXTEND rust

[@MoolsDogTwoOfficial]

I’m not going to use Rust. C++ is my best friend. (I have Stockholm syndrome)

[@theintjengineer]

I am learning enough to say I could code some stuff in it, if I needed to, but still - I just frigging love C++.

[@DeadCat-42]

I'll give up C#... Already have lol. C and C++ pry them from my cold dead keyboard .

[@YuriyTsemashko]

Now there in the world are 10 rust vacancies but all of them inside of microsoft?:)

[@nm6x]

Why so salty?

[@kira.herself]

@@nm6x its just a joke

[@SaltyPuglord]

The vast majority of Execs and HR people are technologically ignorant, and also love to chase popular trends simply because they are popular. If MicroSoft goes big on Rust, a large number of such management sheeple will almost certainly jump on the bandwagon. In short: It'll create more than 10 jobs. It might create even 100 jobs! 😜 Now, a discerning programmer who has experienced the many mindless fads of the last 20 years (at least) in the tech industry, many not want to work for a company run by such uncritical trend-chasers. But other programmers may be willing to take the risk. Particularly in exchange for the chance to work with a language they like, and believe has the potential to make their code, and thus their jobs, less frustrating and/or stupid. If nothing else, taking such a job might set a programmer up to get a better job in the future, when the erratic Executards in charge of such companies inevitably steer said company straight into a tarpit. Rust is hardly a perfect programming language. But when compared to JavaScript or VBA, it starts to look pretty good. And the current state of the tech industry - in the USA especially - is abysmal. Seeing Rust succeed in such circumstances is a small ray of warm sunlight in an otherwise miserable and brutal tech winter.

[@RobertKing]

When i was at Meta people were stsrting to use rust more. I think Rust is the recommended goto for scripts meta now. Btw even if 10million is pennies, its a commitment to allow devs to use it, support the training and the software over the long run. The cost is much higher in the long run and its the initial optionality it gives for Rust which is important

[@TheOriginalJohnDoe]

If Microsoft goes full Rust, I might even consider applying for a Rust developer job at Microsoft.

[@if7dmitrij191]

Please don't 😢 you have so much to live for!

[@dwight4k]

@@if7dmitrij191 Brah 😂 Is it that bad at MS?

[@connemignonne]

​@@dwight4kIt's important to remember that Microsoft employees don't go to heaven

[@dwight4k]

@@connemignonne 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

@@if7dmitrij191MS just came top as the best company to work for in tech.

[@StrefanA]

Developers, developers, developers…

[@panthera3042]

@lets_get_rusty Could you please do a video on current state of formal specification and formal verification of rust using mathemathical proofs?

[@darukutsu]

Time to move to zig

[@tigger1891]

Does this mean pop os and windows apps will become better compatible with one another in the future? The real threat of Linux and customer frustration is starting to show.

[@a_maxed_out_handle_of_30_chars]

aah, nice started learning a week ago from you channel thank you :)

[@letsgetrusty]

Glad to be of service 🫡

[@iamworstgamer]

considering they have their own rust course it was bound to happen, lets hope for the best

[@zvqle]

I will try rust ONLY if when the winAPI and NTAPI gets rewritten in rust and doesn't use C bindings.

[@nbhjbhyvgbhyuvbhuynnjbhu]

that cant happen until backwards compatibility can be broken

[@zvqle]

@nbhjbhyvgbhyuvbhuynnjbhu which is why I currently won't be using rust

[@javierflores09]

then you'll never trust it because that's not gonna happen, why would they throw DECADES of stable source code away just to port it to a different language, generating more bugs in the run? It'd be a money pit

[@zvqle]

​@javierflores09 yeah it's obvious. This is why I say C is in a very stable position

[@sharkpyro93]

@@zvqle sadly every c/c++ job position is for legacy stuff, like stuff written in late 90'/early 00, embedded systems are the only exception but thats it, its asuicide to use c/c++ for greenfield projects

[@Beryesa.]

Even Rust can't save Microsoft Windows 😅

[@Phantom-lr6cs]

rust cannot even safe itself from rustation XD cve-rs

[@Dmitri_Ivanovich]

Embrace, extend, extinguish

[@prawnydagrate]

i started learning rust a few weeks ago, but i'm not so sure anymore if i should learn a language that doesnt even have generators

[@peter9477]

What would a generator get you that Rust's Iterator does not?

[@catto-from-heaven]

Iterators are much better

[@prawnydagrate]

lol whats an iterator (as i said im very new to rust)

[@peter9477]

@@prawnydagrate They're a key feature of Rust. For loops work only with them. Gentle advice: don't be so quick to judge it! :-) But also from someone who learned Rust over the last 18 months and is still learning: plan on a lengthy and at times very steep learning curve. But also: it's been worth it, no question.

[@catto-from-heaven]

@@prawnydagrate If you don't even know such a basic feature, why are you judging the language, then?

[@marketsmoto3180]

**inserts dancing crab meme here**

[@WilhelmDrake]

1) Why do Rust users always seem like cultists? 2) I don't know how you can call Rust memory safe when it has an escape hatch that allows you to write explicitly unsafe code.

[@BorlandC452]

Kind of surprising that Microsoft is embracing it so readily seeing as it's a Mozilla invention.

[@LonersGuide]

If Microsoft zigs, I zag.

[@weorkay]

You are beginning with "in a recent announcement". Where and when was the announcement made? Where did you read or watch or hear? Please share. I want to ensure.

[@k98killer]

1:47 "that's why they've invested in a memory safe language like Rust (but not Rust?). It's going so well that they're doubling down (this time on Rust instead of whatever they just gave up on?)." Feels like this needs some clarification for it to make sense.

[@andythedishwasher1117]

Let's talk when they offer a Rust runtime for Azure App Service.

[@EzekielPrellus]

Doesn't make me despise Microsoft any less.

[@pebble24]

Rust is great. However I will still use C for things because of the enjoyment using it gives me. for large projects, fair enough use rust. but it's gonna be a long while before C and C++ aren't used anymore

[@eamonburns9597]

Why is C more enjoyable than Rust for you? I haven't used C, but I do use Rust, and have found it really enjoyable and I can't really see a way that C could be better 😅 but I would like to hear your view

[@pebble24]

@@eamonburns9597 I like the feeling of pure control that c gives you. also the syntax of c is much nicer and simpler that rust imo.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

When new languages emerge they rarely “kill” what they are initially marketed as killing. Everything just becomes more focused while the software realm keeps expanding.

[@v01d_r34l1ty]

@@kevinmcfarlane2752 this whole situation is such a clusterf- for me because I love modern C/C++ and I really have a distaste for Rust, but Rust does have some incomparable advantages. If only there was more seamless integration I'd be more inclined to use it. If I had to guess, that's what all the other companies are thinking too.

[@armuc6941]

thanks! what about C# ??

[@tarasov9794]

The 'Cppfront' project by Herb Sutter has potential (and is gaining momentum) as well as addresses security issues of C++, while keeping C++.

[@АртурАлексеев-к6в]

There is no need to keep C++, as the language is kinda shit

[@fdwr]

Ick, why can't the next language be one that is at least aesthetic, rather than this chimera of snake case and camel case jammed together. It's already overdue for the next language after Rust to come along.

[@your.statu_s]

I guess it's time to learn rust to break rust

[@nicholastan8163]

This news made my day! Hiring Mark Russinovich was one of the best moves Microsoft ever made.

[@Phantom-lr6cs]

yeah microsoft made best moves ? really ? :D cve-rs

[@WilhelmDrake]

They did not. Pure clickbait.

[@cbbcbb6803]

Why can't C/C++ just be "fixed", or just be recreated?

[@Leonhart_93]

Because it doesn't really need to, over the years they've added plenty of memory safety features and you can use memory analysis tools. Btw, this video is just clickbait.

[@daniel29263]

I for one think it's about time to replace those 40+ year old memory unsafe foot guns. Rust haters must be fuming right now :).

[@coffeefps]

Looking forward to the time I can full time study Rust :)

[@ladyville3]

C for life

[@karelissomoved1505]

good news everyone! btw what does 1 class language mean?

[@__hannibaal__]

Listen to what Linus : nothing better than C/C++.

[@DungVu-di7dz]

Rust is still so young, it needs more support

[@o_klk]

First let them try to make linked list in rust :)

[@MarxW-me]

This is the first time that I love Microsoft so much

[@CitizensCommunity]

That is huge..

[@Inf4mousKidGames]

MS Visual Rust incoming

[@igz]

Let's gooooooo! 🦀

[@colinmaharaj]

The financial investment is one thing, but the time you have to invest is another. I personally think this will take a few decades of work. It's not going to happen overnight. Microsoft do not have one or two products, they have thousands, and most are written in C/C++

[@judahmatende3769]

Rust is gonna be the biggest technical debt for the next 20-30yrs

[@AngelicStreak]

I wish good luck to "the industry deprecating C/C++" in any realtime software where performance is critical and security isn't (games, digital signal processing, realtime simulations, highly scalable high-performance cloud solutions). And, yes, even BASIC was very safe and secure compared to C/C++. That's nothing new.

[@wombora]

I like how you say linux kernel and mean windows - there shall be no other kernel then the linux kernel in your mind :D - at 1:10

[@jeffreychongsathien]

Make a transpiler or be quiet, Microsoft.

[@ZeStig]

As much as I hate Microsoft and Windows, this is a great move. Kudos to them.

[@wilfreddv]

They have finally gotten around to delivering the final blow to the steaming pile of shit they call an operating system

[@gradf8678]

Please share the sources!

[@letsgetrusty]

The tweet is in the video

[@CRAAACH]

Waiting for ppl reciting this in a manner that Rust requires 11mln$ to become sufficient programming language.

[@s1v7]

yey!

[@zoop2174]

Wasn't microsoft developing its own Rust competitor language?

[@FPChris]

Ok sure

[@y01cu_yt]

How should a game developer using huge game engines like Unity and Unreal should take from this? Will we also be migrating from C#/C++ to Rust?

[@wolfeygamedev1688]

short answer no. i think rust is a cool language for replacing cpp in many settings, but tbh i dont think gamedev is one of them and yes I have tried bevy game engine. Truth be told you need a less verbose scripting lang to build games, c#, gdscript and the like shine here. its just too much of a headache to prototype and refactor with rust. Now building a game engine in rust and then an editor and scripting lang like lua or c# on top is not a bad idea. but its just tough because there already are really solid game engines and tools built around them made in cpp.

[@y01cu_yt]

Thanks a lot, this response is golden for me! @@wolfeygamedev1688

[@bear458ziif-s]

@@y01cu_yt not as a replacement, but an alternative. a lot of it depends on the implementation and design patterns. it's only comparable to c++ in this context anyway. c# is not a replacement to c++ and vice versa. they are chosen for different reasons. the same would apply to rust as well.

[@y01cu_yt]

@@bear458ziif-s Thanks.

[@belbaka8711]

I still don't fully understand why Rust would be better than modern C++....

[@indiesigi7807]

It isn't and rust seems like a pain to work with.

[@EdwinChenLoo]

No way to have buffer overruns, variables are borrowed so can only be changed by the callee, no dangling pointers, return value checks are enforced, no way to use uninitialized variables.

[@theintjengineer]

Well, it isn't haha.

[@theintjengineer]

​@@EdwinChenLoohave been writing C++ for years and never had any of those. Is it easy? Absolutely not. Is it possible to write safe C++? Sure. The thing is you have to love it enough to go down the depth needed. After that, nothing else scares you. And some people just learn something to get a job, which is ok, no problem, but then you probably won't go down the rabbit role to understand the technicalities of the problems you face with C++. Besides, C++20 and newer makes life waaay easier.

[@bear458ziif-s]

​@@theintjengineer you can write safe code in any language. the problem is that it's never that simple because most developers write bad code. the same argument is made for php and many languages. rust's purpose is to simply decrease the margin for error. it's not necessarily better or worse, it just serves it's own purpose.

[@rust_embedded]

🎉🎉🎉

[@Hellofriends-0709]

letsgooo and no problem

[@tigrafrog]

Oh boy.. I strongly suspect classic MS move "Embrace, extend, and extinguish", part one - "embrace". They're doing "extinguish" part already with gaming lately - gamepass will kill good games, will be lots of bad or slightly above mediocre, just good enough for a month, and will constantly pump green slime to user's consumption. MS should never ever give ANY control over Rust, or it will be extinguish. Always remember "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" and always remember MS plans to make Windows cloud-only, subscription only "service". This is not about technology, it is about full control.

[@Nothing_serious]

Yeah because they EEE C++. People like just like using this buzzwords.

[@thirstypooch]

🦀

[@taodive2848]

I have always heard about how great RusT is, but reality tells me that there is no perfect thing in this world. Why hasn't anyone mentioned the drawbacks of Rust?

[@xshady2967]

no one mentioned it? - compile times - borrow checker fights at the beginning of learning

[@NamitKewat]

So, with RUST, Microsoft can safely build windows os for x86 and arm target architecture platforms in coming years.. to compete against Apple's macosx offering via M3/M4/M5....

[@linkernick5379]

Isn't better to fix C++ toolchain for Microsoft's needs? Just kidding 😊

[@notawix8542]

isnt AI going to element need for programmers ?

[@theintjengineer]

Maybe. But it won't eliminate the need for an efficient and productive Engineer as he/she will know how to leverage technology to come up with some b*dass stuff, by being creative. Ah, wait. Such an Engineer will also probably leave Corporations after a while and probably _create_ his/her own business.

[@pc2753]

🤔

[@haliszekeriyaozkok4851]

overall i don't like microsoft and it's products, although that's good step for them, as being a rust developer i'm appreciated it. Also microsoft 11 has too many silly bugs on inside and actually it's the most buggy microsoft os version i ever used but i don't know the reason of that. So i hope they adopt it more further and their product became less buggy and performant. That step could make their product more better than mac os in long term.

[@JorgetePanete]

its*

[@michaelschnell5633]

Seems like good news for Rust developers and for Microsoft Users.

[@metatechnologist]

Meaning if your shop is starting a new C++ project its probably a real bad idea. Change my mind. Thanks for making s video reporting this!!

[@maf_aka]

another open-source project claimed by Microsoft. why is nobody concerned by this?

[@binsitt]

Aren't that amazing news?

[@johnjakson444]

So I guess Visual Studio will be abandoned too

[@Ribulose15diphosphat]

Telling a C-Programmer to write in Rust, is like telling a Bricklayer to do Carpentry. I bet anybody competend (if conpetence exist at microsoft) will quit, and gets replaced with a blue-haired pronoun-teller, shouting "Queers for P*lestine". Never Change a Running system.

[@Leonhart_93]

Haha, accurate. And no, this is probably just fake news.

[@PaulSebastianM]

If Apple can build a hugely better OS in C (Objective-C), mainly because of the robust Unix foundation, then my bet is that Microsoft won't be able to do a better job with Rust instead of C/C++. Perhaps yeah they might fix a few memory safety bugs and of course create a few new jobs, but objectively speaking, when it comes to Windows, I've lost all hope. Microsoft's problem is that they can't see a better Windows themselves. They see dozens, and they can't choose which to build (ME, Vista, 8, 9?, 10, rumors of 11, all very different from each other) . They are looking for a miracle. Now they're seeing Rust as that miracle. Who knows what they'll jump on tomorrow... Shiny object syndrome.

[@zed5790]

Look around and you'll learn that nobody gives a fuck to ms or windows! All they care about is the development of the rust ecosystem and it's surely huge for rust.

[@PaulSebastianM]

@@zed5790 problem tho. Large companies are starting to take control of the language's roadmap. Or want to. Check the recent Rust Foundation debacle.

[@zed5790]

@@PaulSebastianM I agree, but I think Microsoft is far better at managing a developer community compared to the Rust foundation. Just take a look at C# and TypeScript; they're among the most beloved technologies at the moment. This shows that Microsoft can handle things much better, although they probably won't take control of Rust. If Microsoft were to get involved, it would likely bring more benefits to Rust.

[@fatShowPony]

They didn't say anything about giving up C/C++. Clickbaiters are turds.

[@icanonlysuffer]

you mention Linux but the image in the timeline is Windows

[@skiesaboveunlimitedstargaz7316]

LET'S GO!!

[@professornumbskull5555]

0:38 Now you know why rust foundation is rust foundation

[@Viral757_]

yess, now they should apologize for hating Bill Gates. ☘☘

[@nixielee]

Great news, but perspective is important. Microsoft spent 27 billion U.S. dollars on R&D in 2023, so 10 million to Rust is not even a drop in the bucket. They probably spend more on teabags every year.

[@letsgetrusty]

True but its a step in the right direction!

[@gragogflying-anvil3605]

Don't forget the 69 billion they spent to acquire ActiBlizzKing.

[@Anonymous4045]

I mean how much good would more do? I don't think it's quite as linear as "$10mil makes it 20% better, $20mil is 40%, ..." although I admit I don't know too much about where the money goes for things like this.

[@Nothing_serious]

I mean obviously, they have other projects and products aside from Rust so they're not gonna spend all their money in it especially when Windows and AI is still their focus.

[@proudmoroccan8164]

Thank you for sharing. The future of Rust looks bright.

[@AndyBarbosa96]

C++ will never go away. If you need bare metal low latency high throughput compiled binaries, then there is simply no better alternative. Around 80% of legacy systems (included embedded) have been built with it. But please go ahead and specialise in Python/Rust, we GCC greybeards couldn't thank you enough.

[@somenameidk5278]

rust is a language without a garbage collector thats compiled to machine code? why are you treating it like an interpreted language?

[@sharkpyro93]

sadly you're right

[@michaelbianchi7639]

IF (and only if) Microsoft supports the open source nature of the language and does not try to make it Windows specific this will be great. It has the potential to make Rust the next "universal" systems programming language. When Linux, Apple and other big names (and the education community) jump on board Rust may be come THE language of the early 21st century. Thinking In Rust will be the programming skill to have. ((Sounds like the title of a book.))

[@asdfghyter]

@@impregnat0r i mean, sure, it's overhyped, but not without reason. while it's obviously very far from perfect, it is still a huge step forward compared to other languages in many aspects. it's basically the only mainstream GC-free memory safe language in existence. sure, you *can* write memory safe code in C and C++, but you will have no way of *guaranteeing* that it is actually safe, especially not for a large organization like Microsoft which will have thousands of developers write millions of lines of code that will run on millions of computers. it's way easier when the compiler can check it for you. same thing when it comes to data races and generally issues that stems from mutable aliasing of data

[@michaelbianchi7639]

Yes. In 5 years we will know better how it all turned out.

[@mk72v2oq]

@@impregnat0r Rust never had guarantees about memory leaks in the first place. Because memory leaks have nothing to do with safety. In fact it even has explicit leak() method for data structures in std, which is a totally safe call. And of course Rust is mainly for low-level/HPC stuff. As Russinovich clearly pointed: "use Rust for those scenarios where a non-GC language is required". Because for scenarios where you can use GC languages, it obviously will be 1000 times easier.

[@asdfghyter]

@@impregnat0r i don’t think i implied that the compiler would solve all your problems. what i meant is that it would guarantee *memory safety* (and a few other safety properties, like avoiding data races). while memory leaks can be bad and frustrating, they are generally not a _major_ safety concern. in the worst case scenario someone can exploit it to make a DOS attack, which is of course bad but still orders of magnitudes better than what buffer overflows and similar can cause (ACE in the worst case). you can have memory “leaks” in all languages, since you can always accidentally keep a useless reference to memory that is no longer needed. but other than that, the primary way to leak memory in rust is through cyclic reference counted data, which is just a case you need to be aware of and insert the necessary weak references. this is an issue even in some GC languages, so it’s hardly a specific issue with rust. rust obviously can’t fix _all_ problems but for sure, it’s certainly no python killer. the primary target is replacing c++. while it can also be useful for higher level programming tasks, the primary reason for choosing rust there would be that it’s the language that you’re most comfortable with using and/or the ability to use the same language for everything, rather it being the best language for the task.

[@gragogflying-anvil3605]

@@impregnat0r I don't even know what you try to convey with your flappy birds game. An empty game in Unity is at least 60 MB.

[@root8272]

If Rust is to be a 1st class language from Microsoft, I'd expect something that would allow us to safely develop graphical Windows apps in Rust.

[@letsgetrusty]

📝Get your *FREE Rust cheat sheet* : letsgetrusty.com/cheatsheet Correction: at 1:13 I said “Linux Kernel” but I should have said “Windows Kernel”

[@spikespaz]

Don't sign up for that "cheetsheet" guys, it's just a crappy newsletter shilling Rust. If you're already a Rustacean, there is nothing useful for you. I'd like to see it have more advanced content for intermediate viewers. There is not enough of that content, but beginners have no short of written documentation.

[@MyWatermelonz]

This is sad I hate rust.

[@Phantom-lr6cs]

don't worry there'll be tons of errors in microsoft cause of rust : D cve-rs

[@starllama2149]

My question is what does that mean? Were they able to achieve pure interior with c++ in a scaleable way? Can they just drag and drop replace rust in a major c++ legacy codebase and never code c++ in that codebase again? Are we just talking about new projects? What’s the status on developer tooling in legacy c++ codebases that are now adding features in rust? Can you go to definition with an lsp? How easy is it to debug? Until these questions are answered this is all hype white noise in my opinion

[@asdfghyter]

i believe that the explicit announcement regarding azure was that new projects will be rust instead of c++, but they will likely also try to replace existing code gradually. and the second announcement was that it will be a first class language in windows and that they will try to give it as good tooling support as c++, which would allow them to use rust a lot more in windows. they would obviously not throw away the code they already have until they have some separate reason to rewrite it, at which point they could rewrite that component in rust

[@TAP7a]

I can answer the two of these that aren’t internal MS knowledge: - yes, the existing LSP does support going to definitions - it’s one of the easiest language to get the easy bugs out of because of how strict and verbose the compiler is, and the compiler team are often very happy to take on new things to catch at compile time and corrections or additions to compiler messages

[@wolfeygamedev1688]

My guy he said NEW projects... also rust already has all of those features. plus try debugging a legacy cpp project with memory leaks anyways...

[@J-Kimble]

and then there is async rust which is a completely different cup of tea from regular rust. I'm not even sure async rust is production ready at the moment.

[@JaconSamsta]

Is it as mature with decades of dedicated tooling as Java or C++? No, but I really don't get why people need to keep pretend like Rust is still some immature plaything Mozilla is toying around with. I'd say Rust probably has one of the best language servers out there. Certainly not on par with something like C# or Java in their respective top IDEs (Visual Studio/IntelliJ/Rider), but when compared with basically any other LSP implementation, it wipes the floor. Certainly good enough if your bar is as low as "go to definition". Debugging is also mostly fine. It works just the same as C or C++ (aka producing debug symbols referencing the source code) and something like CLion or RustRover has no problem acuratley portraying datastructures. It mostly lacks nice defaults for displaying things like like enums and std native datastructures. So you end up clicking on the drop-down error to expand types a lot. Debug frontends have been built for C++ and Java style languages for the last 40 years, so there is a bit of catching up to do for working with algebraic data types in a more intuitive way. Maybe there is some Scala or F# tooling that could work as a good guideline here. C++ integration is of course tricky. C++ has made some absolutely horrible design decisions (initially as well as throughout its run), that basically no other language wants anything to do with. C++ gets around this by being quasi backwards compatible with C. So C -> C++ is usually quite easy, but C++ -> C is quite horrible as well and definitely contributed to it not being allowed in to the Linux Kernel. There is a reason why basically all cross-language stuff happens by exposing a C interface and I'd say there is much less friction in Rust to do so. So if you are implementing stuff that just needs to be called as an isolated library or module, I think we are pretty much there already. We'll have to see what companies like M$ come up with for the remaining 10%.

[@lightprogrammer]

DO NOT TRUST MICROSOFT!!!

[@LildAnakin]

Good thing I just got accepted into a rust bootcamp

[@MrEW1985]

Preaching the choir. Microsoft has one of the largest C/C++ code bases out there.

[@clivethompson5016]

womp womp

[@TheD3adlysin]

This is awesome. I work in Azure, I had no idea this was a thing we were doing cool! I gotta pay more attention.

[@myname2462]

😅

[@TheD3adlysin]

@@myname2462 😀