Hot Characters = Successful Games? - Level With Me Ep. 68

[@RenegadeVash]

It’s about making an “appealing” character. Which can be done multiple ways. Attractiveness is most obvious. Characterization is another. Storyline is another. Most of the failed games can’t do any of these for their characters. Mainly because they are made by committee corperate slop checkboxes. There is no soul or FUN to any of there decisions.

[@h3rteby]

Yeah the problem with "agenda driven development" is that the focus is no longer on just making the coolest game, and characters end up feeling like political tokens. I think the backlash against "unattractive characters" is not exactly about their appearance, but that it can be a signal that the studio has lost touch with the audience in general.

[@Destroy3612]

levelcap i fully expect your space game to have a hot ship

[@cerberus144]

Ciri is a Witcher, she didn't go through the trials but she has all the skills and power needed. Her being a Witcher is well established in the books.

[@totomen666]

Wake up, Dwag, you overdosed on copium - and unable to comprehend basics, stick to Veilguard!

[@user-ne9sd4ow1o]

"Hot characters sell games". That's why Gollum did so well.. 😅

[@buriedstpatrick2294]

If someone started complaining to me that a video game character wasn't attractive I would probably just find someone else to talk to to be honest. The actor that the Naughty Dog character is based on is by no means conventionally unattractive. It really is just the lack of traditional feminine aspects that some people seem to take issue with. You'd think there was already enough games to satisfy these people, but they see every attempt to offer an alternative take on what a woman looks like as a personal insult to them.

[@jcaashby3]

Tati Gabrielle is very attractive for sure...at least to me lol. But I agree with all you said. I have been gaming since the 80s when you could not even see enough details to know what someone even looked like. But here we are in 2024 and people are legit complaining a lead character is not attractive enough so they wont buy a game!!??

[@raidengoodman8754]

culture war crap tbh

[@carontorliak2760]

I think their argument is that game companies will complain no one played their game yet their audience was always telling them what they wanted to see from the beginning. "Ugly" characters don't make games flops imo, poor gameplay and story balance is usually the bigger issue.

[@buriedstpatrick2294]

​@@carontorliak2760 I think their argument is entirely informed by youtubers of a particular variety who pump out content that's obsessed with making game companies look like they're entitled brats. The dynamic is entirely made up. Game companies aren't "complaining" no one plays their games, it's a very childish way to look at how the games industry works. Game companies make the games -- ideally, the games they want to make -- and then they go to market and perform however the market dictates. No one has the full picture of why a game succeeds. The market is an unpredictable chaotic mess of interconnected cultural winds blowing in every direction. Anyone who professes to know exactly why a big game flops is, at least, partially lying. I remember the Sim City reboot disaster, didn't stop it from selling gangbusters despite the its broken state and arbitrary online only requirements that were widely criticized. The reason so many games these days are ridden with microtransactions and dark design patterns is not because developers want to implement them. It's because there are shareholders to answer to, and they don't care about the quality of the product, only the monetary gains. (Which is why going public is a creative death sentence). Just look at what kids play these days. No one can argue the character designs in Minecraft and Roblox look "attractive". They're fun and expressive to kids, that's what matters to them. I think it's fine to disagree with a character design and be turned off from the game for that reason. I don't play a lot of Japanese games because I'm not huge into the anime aesthetic, for instance. But to suggest it's something that makes or break a game's success is just pure fantasy.

[@myztklk3v]

turok went full blown sci-fi in the later games, but there was some of that in the first couple.

[@raidengoodman8754]

that wukong article was completely a mistranslation btw

[@ChopperMeir]

I think Charlie put it right when he mentioned aesthetically pleasing. What cpuld be perceived as Ugly characters can still be loved by gamers if they have that cool factor and decent lore/stpry to them. In terms of beauty, humans naturally gravitate to what they find attractive so ot makes sense those characters garner more interest. Sometimes to the detriment of the game, Stellar blade for example has some fantastic gameply but is often criticised because of the lead characters looks.

[@CyborgNinjaJesus]

I would take that article about the Wukong dev with a huge grain of salt, saw some translations from Chinese speakers that said the quote was mistranslated / misinterpreted to paint him as salty and arrogant but I think it was meant as a joke or didn't say that thing abut the speech at all, can't remember. Anyway, something weird going on , that article from IGN that painted them in a terrible lihjt keeps being referenced and that one was also proven to have been mistranslated to the point it seemed intentional to make them look bad.

[@myztklk3v]

I played star citizen again for the first time in probably 2 years with a friend who hasn't played since the hangar module and I had probably the best session in game I've ever had (on the live build, not the 4.0 ptu)

[@aquariiiYT]

Man, this Snap conversation makes me realize you are ancient compared to me

[@user-ne9sd4ow1o]

I watch these on YT and then relisten on spotify when im at work or walking the dog 😅

[@avhound2]

Nice episode lads. Y'all's pulse on the gaming industry and the gold at the very end are why I'm here 😏

[@myztklk3v]

I dont understand why people are confused about Ciri being a witcher, literally her entire personality and interests revolve around her wanting to be a witcher, some people even think that the title of the series "The Witcher" is in reference to Ciri and not Geralt. I know she's basically a demi-god, and I know they will obviously have to in-lore nerf her, but it's not a stretch to think her being a demi god didn't help in her surviving the trial of the grasses being both a woman (they all supposedly die) and being an adult (which is why they did it to kids).

[@tomaac]

It's sad to see how everyone already forgot about Last Epoch.

[@Adam-082]

astrobot winning game of the year is hilarious lol

[@zowbaid89]

Omg Matt. I thought it was just me who didn’t use any of that social media crap. But glad to see another mid thirties gamer in the same boat!

[@Дулат-ъ8х]

Ep.68 of me waiting for MAtimi0 crashout intro

[@beavschannel5217]

I think there is definitely an argument for the game awards having a DLC in game of the year over plenty of other titles.

[@zowbaid89]

I feel like Matt's pretty done with this whole weekly life advice thing. And I'm als not feeling it from him anymore. Maybe you guys could turn that last segment into Q/A type thing. Community sends questions and you guys can answer them like in the last 10 min of the podcast? That would be a really cool and fun way to communicate with your audience.

[@Bohdisattva326]

Marvel Rivals needs to be discussed.. Absolutely S tier gameplay, great characters, good monetization, 6 v 6...Fun = everything OW2 was supposed to be.

[@williamstarck6863]

It went from all monetisation is garbage to good monetisation existing. Sad times.

[@user-dj9iu2et3r]

@@williamstarck6863you sound look up the word “monetization” in the dictionary.

[@websurferwizard]

They discussed it last week I think

[@websurferwizard]

level cap should have 10,000,0000,00000000 views WTF

[@Dirt33breaks]

37:35 Crossout!! its a very good game, but yeah without money or epic time on your hands u dont get much

[@jaywerner8415]

"When your done watching this", Iv heard alot of people IMMIDATELY stopped watching the game awards to go play helldivers the moment that BIT ended. DEMOCRACY TAKES PRIORITY! But yeah, Helldivers is BACK BOYS! I think it peaked at over just 200k, probably more including Consoles. Been getting over 100k peaks for past several days. And soon we are going to get our Fast Recon Vehicles soon. And then we wait till next year to more things and stuff.

[@skaze8653]

Good games will sell well. Culture warriors jump on any game that doesn't do well and look to see if their is any DEI in it (aka anyone that isnt a strong white male or submissive attractive female). If they find it they immediately blame DEI and le woke for the failures of the game. When you ask them how le woke ruined the game the best they can come up with is the developers spent too much time implementing pronouns into the game and not enough time on making the game good. If a woke game like BG3 or metaphor refantazio do well they immediately backtrack and come up with a reason for why le woke worked in this game and not another. What's particularly disgusting about people complaining about the appearance of Intergalactic's protagonist is that she is based off the appearance of the voice actor. These people are making a big fuss about her not being attractive but I have a sneaking suspicion these people are not exactly supermodels.

[@jcaashby3]

Tati Gabrielle

[@A_Dog_You_Know]

@skaze8653 Bg3 did well because it was made for gamers. It having woke elements was something that came naturally. Your argument is a disingenuous strawman, and you don't understand the true underlying issues people actually have with woke games.

[@kevinandrade3177]

Luv yall OGz right here

[@myztklk3v]

10:00 so here's my take on why they switched engines, keep in mind I don't have any experience modding or doing anything with red engine, but the Witcher 3 was notoriously hard for CDPR to add a new game+ mode to, but they promised it to fans, so they had to deliver it. IIRC something to do with the way the engine database for items and stuff works and they were JUST able to make it work with the witcher 3. This is the reason why cyberpunk never got a new game+ and ultimately why I think they decided to switch engines because fixing it (even though they completely overhauled the engine for CP2077) isn't worth it.

[@carontorliak2760]

It is essentially this and that they believe their development time would decrease much more with higher quality products developed due to not having to engineer and troubleshoot their own engine during development and having to train new devs on how to use their propriatory engine.

[@YourBlackLocal]

Ngl... this set-up is insanely uncanny.

[@Soldout360]

I don’t think hot characters sell games. Take mortal combat for example, most of the characters are hot but the players mostly talk about their story or powers. I’m not saying attractive characters can’t make a game successful they just don’t. It mostly comes down to fun gameplay, you can’t have icing without the cake.

[@WellytonNandi]

Why did you stop uploading your podcast to KZbin Music? I can’t listen to it on my car because CarPlay doesn’t work with KZbin, only KZbin Music

[@muzamilnabinadroo]

Man Onimusha and Okami are back. My intuition saying Dino Crisis is also coming back. Capcom is the best large publisher right now.

[@kimberly4275]

I really dont think the GOTY is bought. Someone would leak it 100%. That involves so many people.

[@Timberwolf581]

As for characters being attractive, I can see why, but also disagree with the sentiment that a character should be physically attractive all the time. For me though, it's less about looking at attractive characters and more about *being* an attractive character. It makes me feel good about myself and enjoy the game more when I think my character is attractive. Doesn't matter if it's all in first person and I never get to see myself outside of maybe a cutscene or two.

[@theroguenob]

the last of us part 2 was EXTREMELY controversial, people did not like the direction the story went it was not nearly as popular or even received well

[@user-dj9iu2et3r]

Let’s be so real. Had the entire script not leaked before the game’s launch, the game would have been on the level of the first one. I played it regardless because I’m not a sheep and I loved it. I didn’t think the structure of the story was ideal but I still enjoyed it.

[@herremilkanter]

I don't know man. TLOU: Part II sold 4 million copies in the first weekend. The first game sold 1.4 million in the first week.

[@theroguenob]

@herremilkanter that was based off the success of the original. It's sales plummeted after the story was found out. It did serious damage to people's perception of naughty dog and rightfully so make a shit story filled with controversy not for good storytelling but whatever agenda they wanted to push

[@reveille1289]

I chuckled when they brought on some of the most blue haired Karen type game devs to tell their sob story about how they got fired and they just couldnt imagine how that possibly could have happened 😂

[@Blue_Tempest6]

Mat really needs to play the uncharted series. They do it better than Indy.

[@habalkuki9200]

Astrobot getting GOT is a joke

[@snarl3027]

Goooooooooood damn matimios hairline!!!! lol god we’re getting old. Started watching him when he was a damn near teenager.

[@theroguenob]

Holy shit people really don't know, ciri can't be a witcher she's ancient elven bloodline BUT she hunts monsters and knowing the world of the Witcher the people don't care she hunts monsters for coin which means witcher

[@Dirt33breaks]

bloody hell Charlies headphones are like $1800

[@user-ne9sd4ow1o]

He has expensive taste lol

[@user-ne9sd4ow1o]

I feel like a "rich kid" using $300 headphones.. I'd be so scared to break those. 😬

[@Dirt33breaks]

@user-ne9sd4ow1o agreed

[@InterstellarKev]

I would say there is diminishing return on headphones that are in the 500 range but for some reason headphones 1k range do hold their value even if you find a pair cheaper and sound better. (A headphone connoisseur)

[@R17759]

Witcher 4 and the naughty dog game will be successful. Most people aren’t terminally online culture warriors and just want to play good games.

[@R17759]

@@AnteBossHavent played either

[@R17759]

@@AnteBossYou can craft whatever narrative you want. The influence of the culture war people is pretty limited in the grand scheme. Most people aren’t making decisions based on what those people are saying because most people don’t know they exist. There are plenty of “woke” games that do really well and they just have to ignore those or pretend they actually aren’t “woke.”

[@A_Dog_You_Know]

I bet they will be as successful as LOU2. Probably. It will be funny either way

[@alexduffy7925]

Delusional af, it's gonna fail like Concord and take the whole studio with it, lol

[@R17759]

@TurdFerguson-td9nxI think you are living in an online outrage bubble. But I guess it feels good to think you are part of some sort of movement and to feel like the perceived success and failure of entertainment products is an indication of your ideology “winning.”

[@nicollokhumalo2826]

It's all fantasy and wish fulfillment in the end, and I think when people fantasize they idealize things. You even want the ugly things to be perfectly ugly.

[@AllowedGold]

"no i have not played it" all i needed to hear. sham.

[@stdomitius8530]

Ignoring the complete lore of the previous games and books they made Ciri a witcher which is ridiculous. Its clearly a grab for attention they didnt need to do if they just made her the awesome character she was in Wild Hunt. doesnt make sense to retcon an entire plot just to make this happen.

[@RacerRookie]

Imo, asmongold is being a bit of an incel. Attractiveness of characters doesn't matter. Its not like anyone thinks mario is good looking.

[@RacerRookie]

@@nomad8503Lmao, he chats so much waffle too

[@raidengoodman8754]

i think he's said times before that "woke" or unattractive characters won't make a good game bad, but they will make a bad game worse. True btw

[@carontorliak2760]

I understand both sides but I think appealing to the side that wants more "conventionally attractive" characters is a problem if that is a focus for a game. 1. Attractiveness is subjective. 2. There will always be someone "hotter". 3. Can misrepresent the story/lore/setting of the game. 4. Hide flaws of a bad game. Ik its cringe to reflect it into society, but honestly it is sad to see people call Ciri UGLY as so many people may feel bad about themselves from unrealistic perceptions of these people. These attractive characters also fuel an increase of corn-addiction, especially in men.

[@LevTheChosenOne]

A good game is what sells. Characters designed for wankers are not very popular, as was already demonstrated with Stellar Blade. I thought that because of all the talk about that game I thought it was very successful, but it's not just wankers who talk about it, and it's not because of the gameplay, the story, or the music XD

[@a.j.6832]

i was gonna say, i think that hot characters is a bit of an oversimplification

[@R17759]

@@AnteBossHow was it trash

[@R17759]

@@AnteBossLame story is subjective. They didn’t really overpromise or underdeliver on content. People made up a fantasy about what they thought the game was going to be.

[@A_Dog_You_Know]

One million sells and Stellar blade isnt popular? That doesn't make sense bro. You don't have to like a game, that's fine, but being upset that you think its "made for wankers" is serious cope.

[@grayjedioutcast3550]

I just want good games with interesting stories and fun gameplay. I don't give a shit about embracing or pushing back on norms

[@Fohox]

It’s funny how you don’t see women complaining how male characters look in games. Don’t see them whining that Trevor from GTA isn’t attractive enough.

[@EliQ3]

I'm so hyped for Intergalactic. I've loved their last 5 games, and I'm ready for another Naughty Dog rollercoaster!

[@EliQ3]

@TurdFerguson-td9nx the track record speaks for itself. Only 9s and 10s from that studio

[@Cert1f1edM1dget]

@EliQ3 yeah people want it to fail so badly. I've never even seen the trailer (I don't watch trailers AT ALL for movies/shows/games) and all I needed to know was that it was made by ND and I was hooked. It's just people are in this imaginary war that think that everything is against them. If the game was made pre-2016 or whenever "woke" and "anti-woke" gained traction, people wouldn't care so much.

[@raidengoodman8754]

@@EliQ3 only 9s and 10s huh? what was tlou2 then?

[@EliQ3]

@@raidengoodman8754 IMO a 10. People whine because they didn't like a story choice. They act like Joel was actually their dad or something

[@raidengoodman8754]

@EliQ3 nope. Always seems to boil down to just that one point when TLOU2 stans try to deflect criticism

[@hunterxgirl]

The easily argument for attractive characters would be micro transactions. If it doesn’t matter they wouldn’t be sold this well on free games and gotcha games. People want to look good with skins, just facts

[@Khilab_Lacks]

Go woke go broke

[@theroguenob]

Naughty dogs game will fail the witcher however will do fine people complaining arent actual fans

[@sigmatraitss]

I think the problem is not Ciri being the main character. We all loved her in Witcher 3. She was cool, badass and beautiful while having feminine features at the same time. She is supposed to have the noble chosen one vibe. With the new trailer, she looks like a generic villager from the older games. Her moves does not have the same aura, She feels rude and ugly. Her face does not look sharp and appealing in the trailer. This is not from a political perspective. Woke or not everybody likes to play the characters that are epic, cool, good looking. Characters can be badass and have interesting stories at the same time. They do not have to represent different groups of people from real life. You can be bald or overweight but that does not mean you want have a bald or overweight main character in your favorite game. It would be selfish and narcissistic to expect such features in the games you just play for fun.

[@R17759]

Rude and ugly?

[@Cert1f1edM1dget]

actual beta comment.

[@raidengoodman8754]

i'm a fatass and i liked the duke in RE8 and Wedge in FF7. all that matters is if the game is good

[@sigmatraitss]

@@Cert1f1edM1dget Yeah, Witcher is one of my favorite game series after deus ex. So I care about the game. We spend at least 30 percent of the play time looking at our main character. If they use this face model from the trailer, It is going to be immersion breaking. It is not believable when the chosen one, princess, the most important person of the universe type of character looks like a villager npc girl.

[@Cert1f1edM1dget]

@@sigmatraitss beta

[@MrJuice315]

Or just dont specifically write your character to be annoying to the main demographic that buys games.

[@raidengoodman8754]

@@nomad8503 care to actually refute his point?

[@raidengoodman8754]

@nomad8503 so you won't. Got it

[@kevinandrade3177]

First

[@technobuddy12]

Second

[@aquariiiYT]

27:20… matt is a coke head.. sniff sniff