Lewitt and sE battle for Best Cheap Mic in the World. LCT140 v sE8 inc. noise and off axis tests.

[@IvanTheUndertaker]

Off axis I thought that the SE8 sounded very much more natural and pleasant than the Lewitt. An important issue when using it for ensemble recording. Thanks for the comparison.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Thanks Ivan - glad I remembered to include the off axis element. For some people that is the absolute deal breaker, depends on your gig I suppose. Thanks for the observation. Ta like, ppm6.

[@bluzikmusic]

Thanks for the video. Could hear clock ticking in 'silence' test of both and not much else.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Derek - I like to take the battery out of the clock... my wife likes to put it back! I would say unless you are recording things quieter than ticking clocks you are probably not going to be bothered by the noise floor of these mics! Ta like, ppm6.

[@ClintsGrievances]

It's clearly a clock.

[@intersonic]

I'm fighting between LCT140 and sE8 1 years ago on every youtube review for each mic, and I got lct140 which is very light in weight. Now I'm looking for Se8 again.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Intersonic - the sE8 is a very solid mic with a good set of options including an Omni capsule if you pay extra.The sE8 has bass flat down to 20Hz according to their literature, the Line Audio CM4 is also a good choice, check out my video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/imbJY318n7h8gqc Ta like, ppm6.

[@philips.6518]

Just bought a pair of the Line Audio CM4 after comparing for a long time. Its contender was actually non of the Mics that here are considered as being best mics but the Oktava MK-012. Of course also a reason for not getting them was not to fill certain person's bank account with foreign currencies... However it would be amazing to see a video on them as well.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Phil, thanks for the info. Do let us know how you get on with the CM4s. Next on the list will be the Sontronics STC1 www.sontronics.com/stc1 as I can get review loans and they are a UK based outfit. I would like to get some Oktavas to try but budget is a problem! My plan is to post 24bit 96KHz files on Patreon as a way of funding more mics. Hopefully that will fly in the next month or so. What else did you listen to before choosing the CM4? Ta like, ppm6.

[@robertfontaine3650]

I have been listening to recordings of the LeWitt. flat sounds wonderful. the "air" makes it sound more like an Oktava rather than a Neumann (not a bad thing but the Neumann sounds more detailed across a wider range) the flat is really good. Loving your videos. CM4, Lewitt, or SE8 as nice transparent mics that do a good job of reproducing sound make lovely recordings. I will be happy with any of these. I have no shortage of EQ options to change the sound on purpose. Thanks for the videos they have really helped me get my head wrapped around the SDCs. I switched from a cheap large condenser (at2020 - not good but not terrible) to a cheaper SDC(little gem, ISK CM10) and it does a much better job in an untreated room with noise. I've done about as much as I can cutting out the ring in the room and sweetening the mic but the amount of eq required is too much of a compromise. You can only do so much with the little gem. From the recordings, I'm hearing these mics get a clearer cleaner signal that will need less eq to make it sound nice..... That is to say, your videos have been educational. Thanks again ;)

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Robert, thanks for taking the time to share your experience which will be helpful to others I'm sure. I bought some AT2020s back in the day and I think I had a similar experience. I don't know the Little Gem mics but do let us know what your next step is and how it works out. Ta like, ppm6.

[@oli77sch]

Thanks for this comparison. I prefer the sE8 (I own a stereo pair with both the capsules, cardioid and omni) , but maybe you could also do a comparison using the flat mode on the LCT140? I think they would be closer to each other then. Comparing my sE8 to other sdc mics I have (Røde NT-5 and AT4051b), it isn’t that quiet as you would expect reading the specs

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Oli, Thanks for the info, do you use the omnis much and is the noise level the same with cardioid and omni? I think the spec of 13dBA is optimistic to say the least. I'm planning a video on it. I think in 'flat' the LCT is closer to mics like the CM4. Try this video... kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZSVlaCFZclpgK8 Ta like, ppm6.

[@kingsqueak2221]

Just a suggestion, a bit tighter in the edits for A/B so it's easier to compare and for off-axis I'd like you to roll it around from on center to off axis as you are speaking just to better hear the difference in gain as the pattern is shifted.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Nice idea, being a lazy so and so - I would really like a kind of turntable mount to smoothly rotate the mic as I speak. There's an old story of Calrec (when they made mics) using a washing machine controller to rotate mics in their anechoic chamber. I guess they stayed off the 'spin' function. Thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.

[@thesteveandianproject2532]

Both good enough to pick up the TARDIS taking off in the background.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Well I had to spend my stimulus money on something and a TARDIS looked like a good investment! All that extra room on the inside. But the stimulus effect on US house prices is quite startling....kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4eucpqqead0ars Ta like, ppm6.

[@plagueofkoalas]

A lot of comments have been made about the SE8 self noise, and quite a few forum posters and reviews saying it is more like 16-19 dBa self noise. Even so, that is less self noise than a dpa 4060 at 23dBa which is a popular mic for acoustic and classical, and puts in the realm of the Beyer 930. The issue is the misleading 13dBa claim in itself and SE's lack of public acknowledgement of this false claim. I still like the mic a lot, it's great value for the money and you can swap capsules, even comes with a very nice case for a stereo pair. There's no reason to even make this 13dBa claim at all because the price, performance, and accessories more than make up for it.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Spot on - the Lewitt mics are quoted at 20dBA and no one bats an eyelid. The CM4 is at 16dBA and it isn't an issue. The plan is to do a spectrum of SDC mics and benchmark them against the Neumann KM184 which is 13dBA. My AKG 480 is supposed to be 11dBA but strangely sounds a bit louder noisier than the Neumann. But then it is 20 years old... I agree, change the spec and no one will notice or probably care. What is in the Koala mic cupboard? Ta like, ppm6.

[@ferraz916]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk I don’t believe sE is being dishonest about the self-noise specifications. Measuring self-noise involves several factors that make the process more complex than it might seem. One key factor is the microphone’s sensitivity. When a microphone has lower sensitivity, the preamplifier in the audio interface needs to apply more gain to bring the signal to the same level as a more sensitive microphone. Interestingly, as Julian Krause demonstrates in one of his videos, increasing the preamp gain in many audio interfaces can actually improve the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR). Since preamplifiers generate different levels of noise depending on the gain setting, this ratio can affect perceived noise levels. Moreover, the frequency spectrum of the self-noise is another critical factor. It’s possible that the noise from the sE8 falls within a frequency range that is more perceptible to the human ear. Therefore, concluding that the specified value is incorrect based solely on subjective listening tests may not be entirely accurate. While it’s true that what the ear perceives is what ultimately matters in practical use, this doesn’t invalidate the manufacturer’s measurements, as they are based on standardized testing methods.

[@jaimesk1688]

Something uncanny about the clarity of the Lewitt...maybe hinted at by the 'slow' response curves? The SE8 is no slouch though! There is a clock ticking, and even quieter, a bird chirping. Thanks to that, I made a stunning discovery: While the clock is a little clearer on the SE8, the the little bit of uniform noise from the LCT140 almost entirely wipes out the bird! There is a handy aspect to a little noise I had not thought of before: self-noise as a mask over distant background noise. Sometimes a source of clarity in the foreground. My choice is: BOTH.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Jaimes. First can I commend you on the closeness of your listening! Very impressive. There is a clock - I try not to change the battery but my wife sometimes beats me to it! There are birds, you are listening very carefully. And yes the Lewitt has more self noise than the sE8. In fact at around 20dBA quoted noise figure the Lewitt is about the noisiest of the mics in my cupboard. And finally good choice! Ta like, ppm6.

[@jaimesk1688]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk I tried a few SDCs out with lower self-noise, around the same price. I learned the current fixation on the self-noise can be misleading. The B-5 was lifeless compared to the LCT140. I think the SE8 has the kind of liveliness the LCT140 has, PLUS less noise. Don't get rid of the clock or the birds: they made excellent milestones! Using self-noise will be handy on these leaf-blower and jet fly-over days.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Thanks Jaimes - interesting observation about the B-5 which I haven't tried but I think came up in the debate about the sE8's self noise. I haven't tried the B-5 myself. So many affordable mics around today! You'll be glad to know my asked asked about replacing the battery in the clock today. Looks like I'll have to do it! Ta like, ppm6.

[@jaimesk1688]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk I am sort of done with the B-5....for voiceover, at least. For chorus or guitar amp, maybe. The LCT 140 is so much more smooth and clear. One I didn't get to look at yet is the CAD GXL-1200..... want to check that one out? Could be another 'sleeper'... In general, Lewitt has been always surprisingly lucid. The SE8 is a tad better, but not enough to jump at yet. For voiceover, I am working on an 'ultra-pop-filter' for spoken voice. Think 3M "Scotch- Brite"! I don't need the 'air mode'....an LCT 040 would have sufficed.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Jaimes - very interesting stuff. I'll ignore the B-5 and have a look at the CAD when I get a chance. Trouble is my video to do list is getting longer and longer by the day! Hope the pop filter project goes well, I'll be very interested to see (and hear) how that turns out. And glad you are enjoying the Lewitt. Ta like, ppm6.

[@simondurrant43]

How about the Austrian Audio CC8 as a contender? It sounds fantastic on everything I've put it on to date. Silent and flat, if prone to poping on spoken word (Like so many good mics)

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Simon - that is a good call. I'll see if I can get my hands on a CC8, you've got love the AA guys. Ta like, ppm6.

[@mikkelbomadsen7415]

I prefer the SE8. I think your voice is more full sounding on the SE8, while the Lewitt has a slight hollowness. The presence boost of the Lewitt is more pronounced and more sibilant than I like on your beautiful baritone :) Noise doesn't seem to be a practical problem in either of them. I expected a larger difference from the specs.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Mikkel - well observed, I agree that the sE has a slightly darker sound which I prefer, but it is preference and if you wanted to go that route with the Lewitt you can switch in the 'flat' Sound which takes you in that direction. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZSVlaCFZclpgK8 I also agree about the noise, the sE should be 6-7dB quieter than the 140 according to the specs. And finally thanks for your kind words about my baritone, it certainly isn't a singing voice. Ta like, ppm6.

[@TheConsideredMan]

Hi, can I assume your erudite comments about these mics, would extend to their use as matched stereo pairs also...thanks in advance...

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Thanks TCM, I'm not sure about my erudition! But I think you of all people deserve a considered reply. When I first joined the BBC we had left behind Blumlein and had embraced the all in all one solutions from AKG (422?) and the SM69 from Neumann. But KM84s and pairs of 414s and U87s were also popular. But hey did a gig on M201s when we forgot to load the 414s! The new wave of DPA and Schoeps was just arriving. In all these cases we were using the very best mics we had in stereo pairs. A wise man once said to me that the further your mics were from the source, the better they had better be! And I guess that is one thing to bear in mind, it could well be that the cheaper mics don't do so well when deployed as a stereo pair many feet from the orchestra. However the reports I have had of both the CM4s and the sE8s in the field would indicate they are very capable mics and I'm guessing the same goes for the Lewitt's. Roger at Line Audio doesn't supply 'matched' pairs because he says all CM4s are matched closely enough for stereo working! What sort of recordings are you planning? Ta like, ppm6.

[@governmentliars4673]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Hi again, thanks for taking the time to respond in so considered a fashion...it is appreciated! I am considering the use of a matched pair of sE SE8's to record Classical and Acoustic Guitar, so that I can compare the difference between the quality of sound achieved by using the mic'd approach versus the onboard pre-amps and DI into the interface. FYI I'm using Audient iD44 Mk II as the interface into Ableton Live Suite 11 as the DAW and in one instance the on board pre is a Fishman Rare Earth and in the other instance a KNA Passive Piezo under string pick up...any comments regarding the microphone arrangement and distance / spacing would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!!

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi GL - there's a lot to go at there! I think that is a very interesting experiment in terms of audio quality. The wisdom of the ancients is that mics will pretty much always sound better than pickups into DIs. But there's nothing like trying yourself to get to the truth! I think the sE8s into the iD44 will be capable of very good results. I had an iD44 and it is a cracking interface. I tend to prefer coincident mic techniques as opposed to spaced approaches like ORTF or stuff like that, but trying both is certainly worth experimenting with. A stepped stereo bar or even better a Shure A27M makes life easier with coincident positioning, the Shure is magic but expensive. Distance is an interesting question. Partly to your taste, partly the room and partly dictated by other choices. Too close with cardioids and bass tip up will certainly be a factor, are you happy to reach for eq? Is your 'room' good enough to enable mics six plus feet away? And do you want that much perspective? Mostly we're driven closer in by the search for drier perspectives and because our rooms are acoustically flawed. Or there are other sound sources in the room. Sounds like an exciting project, do let me know how you get on. I'm assuming you are playing the guitar and have time to move things round and have another take? Ta like, ppm6.

[@frankluo230]

I like the lct140 a tad more but noise isn't an issue in either case.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Thanks Frank - there have been some concerns about the sE8 not matching its published noise figures. I'm in conversation with sE about it. But certainly in this sort of environment with 'normal' gain settings it isn't a huge problem. I will do a video focussing on the issue when I get a moment. Ta like, ppm6.

[@algywatkins9316]

They sound the same to me but maybe that's more to do with my ears than the microphones! I wonder how the even cheaper sE7 compares?

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Algy, I haven't tried the sE7, which is a slightly different design to the sE8 as it is an electret. If you want to spend less and don't mind less flexibility the LCT040 Match is like the 141 Air but without the pad, filter and 'sound' setting. But it should sound the same as the 140 in this review. Ta like, ppm6.

[@Outbackstudio1]

I bought the se7 and got rid of them. Se8 are much warmer and I think I like the Cm4 the best.

[@rafirafal]

Czy ten dzwiek jest bez obrobki ? Surowy dzwiek?

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Zwykle jestem półkrojona, nie surowa, ale średnio wysmażona. Trusting that Google translate.Ta like, ppm6.

[@nickgoogle4525]

LCT sound horrible with the boost IMO. The SE8 sounds good, but _is_ really noisy (compared to the specs). Will not be a problem for some use cases, but for others it will not be optimal. I bought the CC8 in the end and am satisfied with it. The noise of the CC8 is around the same like the C391B. Noise sounds a bit different, so not exactly precise to compare. I'll never buy an SE product again, just because their specs are a flat-out lie. If they would state that the self noise would be around 19 or 20 dB - which is likely the real value - the price would also better fit. But as often heard. If it sounds to good to be true it possibly isn't. That was the case with the SE8 "low" self noise.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Nick, thanks for your info. I'm jealous of your CC8. Austrian Audio make great mics and I'm sure the CC8 will be a beauty. And it's made in Austria! I'm in discussion with sE about the noise and there'll be a video when we get to the end of the process. What do you think of the sound of the CC8 compared to your C391B? Ta like, ppm6.

[@nickgoogle4525]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk In my ears the CC8 sound is a tad warmer compared to the AKG. But I find the CC8 not too different from the C391B. Both, fine mics IMO. I did decide for the CC8, because the price is almost the same (when buying new ones) and because the CC8 is a matched pair with their tight production tolerances they claim (and from what it seems also have). I had a second hand C391B, where the capsule was off and much different from my 20-year-old, but mint mic. In the end I was hoping for a mic pair which I can use "forever". Let's talk in 20 years again ;-)

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Thanks Nick - good to know. I think compared to the Gefell SDC and Schoeps the CC8 might well be a bargain. Ta like, ppm6.

[@frubo_ssg]

Hello! In which kind of environment did you measure the self noise please? Missing any ambient sound.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi Frubo, my room is a standard suburban room in a standard suburban house. Except it's full of old audio crap! It can be a quiet neighbourhood and so on a good day there will be very little ambient audio. Which hopefully is a good thing for the self noise test because the noise of the mics shouldn't be masked by the audio of the environment. Hope that helps, Are you looking for some new mics? Ta like ppm6.

[@frubo_ssg]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you! Not interested in new mic - I own 110 already - should be enought LOL. I try to find out real self noise of a microphone becausse ambient noise hardly gets

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

110 is a good number of mics! Where to keep them all, that is the problem. There was a lot of controversy around the self noise of the sE8 because the quoted figure was so low. 13dBA or something but there were quite a few people complaining it was higher than that. The Lewitt is 20 odd dBA. Now the point is if sE didn't claim such a low figure no one would care but when I measure the sE8 it was noisier than my Neumann KM184, which also has a published noise figure of 13dBA. However spectral issues enter the equation because the sE has worse noise at HF - ie hiss while the Neumann's noise is lower in frequency. I have got some recordings I was going to put on Patreon at 24 bit 96KHz but I haven't got round to it. Interestingly my quietest SDC - the AKG 480 'sounds' noisier than the KM184. I have a Gefell 2000 series SDC for some videos the Gefell has a self noise of 14dBA. What's the quietest mic in your locker, would you say? Ta like, ppm6.

[@frubo_ssg]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk I haven't tested them because first I need to get to

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

I had a look at the Lewitt 540 figures = 4dBA that is a very, very quiet mic. As you point out it is hard to find acoustic spaces that you can test that in! What is your interest in such low noise applications? Ta like, ppm6.

[@tasteapiana]

In my well conditioned temporary listening space, which consists of roughly 30db of ambiance combined with 35db of coffee maker and 42db of compact refrigerator and 55db of home furnace air intake, sent out through an ancient Harman $50 computer speaker system with sub directly into the absolute dead-air space that exists between my ears whilst munching on Tostitos corn chips... I must say, the sE8 did do a much better job at differentiating the sound of your mantle clock and breathing from the rest of Cardiff than did the LCT140. I could have relocated myself to a much cleaner sound field and fitted my k240DF phones, to better inspect the noise samples you provided, but, meh, lazy. Cardiff! What up, cuz? Beth sy'n bod, cefnder?

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Hi TP - always look forward to your comments and who would have though you had Cymraeg? Sadly I don't but my children do. Sounds like your temp. living space might be a noisy environment! I do plan to do a more comprehensive video on noise when I get a moment. In your experience what are the contenders for quietest mics you have come across? Ta like, ppm6.

[@brooklynboy1000]

These are instruments mics. Why are you talking ? 😢😢

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Well that's a good question... First, do tell what is a voice mic? Second My voice is an instrument. Third I've never bought the instrument/voice distinction. Is the 451 and instrument mic or a voice mic, or the 201 or the Schoeps MK4, or the Sennheiser MKH40.... I think the distinction is strongest in music studios where generally vocals are recorded with LDCs and instruments are often recorded with SDCs, but even there the distinction is easily blurs. U87s for overheads. 414 on vocals and guitar cabs. Actually 414s and SM57s for guitar cabs. Location speech mics are almost universally SDCs. Ta like, ppm6.

[@ToddWhirley]

we. need. more. videos. pronto.

[@ppmtv-qh9qk]

Dear Todd - thank you - I am rebuked. I do have an excuse - I plan to put 24bit 96KHz files up on Patreon because people often complain that the data compression done by KZbin makes the comparisons, well not as good as they could be. I'm trying to get my Patreon act together but it's been slow going. However I have some time in May and I have a new 'Best Cheap Gun Mic' in the world contender so stand by! Ta like, ppm6.

[@ml6245]

@@ppmtv-qh9qk I would like to highlight the great sound of the SYNCO V10 microphone....

[@ml6245]

It would be great to make a comparison with leading instrument microphones.