Life without struggle is meaningless | Peter Wang and Lex Fridman

[@DancingMango123]

Merry Christmas lads. Onward to victory.

[@ashelyrudd2194]

Hail Victory?

[@majidhussain3896]

Christmas is pagan, Islam is the truth

[@ola6089]

@@majidhussain3896 Bro thats what you’ve grown to think. Dont think your smarter or more right than other people just because of your religion

[@bjenkin100]

@@ola6089 he cant help it, just like so many others.. 1 of the very oldest and biggest diseases on the planet

[@DMWayne-ke7fl]

@@majidhussain3896 Allah is an Arab moon god.

[@4sername]

Took me many years to learn this lesson and I would like to share it here I agree that struggle is necessary but suffering is not. I used to truly believe that if I suffer enough, then eventually I shall be rewarded with happiness. I luckily, by accident almost, found the job I love (and it was right in front of my face). The job is a struggle and the reward is great when I do well, but I love my job and do not suffer when I do it at all. Yes, the struggle is real, but that does not mean it cannot feel good and that you have to suffer while you struggle to achieve. It is not of matter of choosing what suffering is worth it to attain happiness, rather it is what can you struggle or work for without you having to be miserable. Your dream is right in front of you, whatever you enjoy doing is what you need to be doing all the time and you'll be happy. It does not mean it shall not be hard, but it does mean that you do not have to be miserable to earn the payoff you seek. I had to let my suffering go and it is counterintuitive to say this but I identified with it so much that I did not want to because suffering is what made it feel real, like I was actually accomplishing something, and the stuff I have fun doing did not feel as meaningful. Time to let that go and just be happy instead and I will; I am so excited to live the rest of my life now with this new mindset. I hope if anyone received this message when they need it, just as I did when I finally became aware of it, that you take action on it immediately and claim your happiness for real, even if it is as simple as allowing the message into your heart so your mind can follow it and guide you to your promised land. Good luck and Cheers 🍻

[@RTL2L]

Great thoughts, thank you for sharing!

[@kamozazimba1228]

Thank you for sharing.

[@hrithikravi8117]

Thanks for sharing! You say this: "...just as I did when I finally became aware of it, that you take action on it immediately and claim your happiness for real..." Speaking about you personally, as you evaluate your choices before you act, how do you determine if a possible action is "right" vs "wrong"?

[@junkjunk2493]

.. kool ...

[@raymondtendau2749]

A meaningful life can be extremely satisfying even in the midst of hardship whereas a meaningless life is a terrible ordeal no matter how comfortable it is. ‐Yuval Noah

[@nebulouscalamity6338]

I think he meant how pleasurable it is. Not sure if you can have satisfaction without meaning. Satisfaction >>> pleasure.

[@raymondtendau2749]

@@nebulouscalamity6338 No bro.Pleasure is not satisfaction.

[@nebulouscalamity6338]

@@raymondtendau2749 What I was trying to say is that the last part should be "whereas a meaningless life is a terrible ordeal no matter how *pleasurable* it is." Since typically we tie meaning with value and value with satisfaction. Pleasure is often disjoint from the notion of value or time being well spent.

[@artawesome30]

How do you define "meaning" and how is it distinct from "pleasure"? What is the difference between a meaningless life and a meaningful one? Are we not all equally helplessly vulnerable to our inevitable fates of 50% pain, and 50% pleasure?

[@raymondtendau2749]

@@nebulouscalamity6338 its actually "comfortable".🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@Jefleopard]

“Life without struggle is meaningless.” Life without meaning is a struggle. Life with meaning is a struggle. “All life is suffering.” “Much afraid was accompanied by sorrow and suffering all her life”

[@procudo4988]

We all suffer, but we don't all pity ourselves.

[@Leksa135]

@@procudo4988 To realize that not all suffering is equal is almost enlightening. Almost.

[@dbeelee8564]

Culture defines meaning. Who defines your culture? When it's you, it always has meaning. When it's you, there is no scalability of meaning. When someone else defines your culture, meaningless follows.

[@chrisdavey3113]

How can you define your own culture? Genuine question, not being a smart ass.

[@Tormentality]

As a white guy born in Canada I live a meaningless life. Thus someone else must be defining my culture? Correct? Now I just need to figure out who exactly is defining my culture... correct?

[@piotrkonieczynski]

I define culture then go down to people who see me. Takes time but is done this way.

[@tensecondbuickgn]

I understand what he is saying in principal but too much struggle can break a person's positive spirit. Also there is so much more balance and peace in letting go of the rat race.

[@bboysaif8]

Not so much about struggle, but taking on challenges. And not to look at these challenges as some sort of burden that weighs heavy on you, but as something that you can and will overcome.

[@pikiwiki]

Absolute truth. Normally, people who glorify struggle are on the upper end of the economic scale, looking back on past challenges. For those in the actual trenches, especially those who have been there for years, telling them that it's "meaningful" is like spitting in their face

[@rc7534]

I knew a homeless person who was suffering from alcoholic, mental illness and AIDS, not sure if they were thinking about meaning of life after all that sufferings but I agreed, life will not be life without struggle, not too much will be nice

[@raymondtendau2749]

Suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning. ‐Victor Frankl

[@timothykangethe7700]

There are people who struggle in Life throughout the World. Some are born into Hopeless Situations while others create Rollercoasters of their Hopeless...despite access to resources material or intellectual. Consumerism/Needs 👉Mind Control (Branding). Perspective is key to Decision making in Life.

[@QualeQualeson]

Not just meaningless, but impossible. Our reality is defined by contrast. Without it, there is nothing at all, just like with an image. If our image starts to get a little too washed out, we will generate contrast ourselves. A life sans struggle will become the struggle. You can't make life a little better without also making it a little worse. It's a zero-sum game. This is ancient knowledge and it happened to be Alan Watts that finally broke through to me. He said (I'm paraphrasing): "What if you could wish yourself to a place of eternal bliss/paradise. Where would you go? If you think about it, you would go to the exact same place that you are right now." What the hell? I really had to think about that one before I realized that he was right. Everything is defined from my current position and cannot be anywhere else. My paradise exists only due to that position. Once I'm gone, it ceases to exist and I'll be right back where I started. That was definitely a "this changes everything" moment. Once you accept that all the good and bad is completely interdependent, you see existence in a different light. And not just in an academic way, but in a practical, every day sort of way. It may be _the_ key to detachment, but I'm not making any claims here. Then I thought: Why are some people "born to sweet delight", while others are "born to endless night" (Blake)? The answer has to lie in "No Man is an Island" (Donne). I was already sceptical of the idea of the individual. There is no compartmentalization/isolation to be had. Anywhere at all. Everything is connected to everything. So you see, now we're even having a go at individualism, and the ball keeps rolling. "This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap" - Patton. (Oh the irony. The quintessential American professes collectivism).

[@will-se7wj]

My paraphrased version of Peter's ending monologue about homogenized capitalism: Homogenized processes, homogenized production, homogenized labor, to produce homogenized artifacts, which don't sit well in the environment, is the antonym of *craft.* Whereas a craftsman will build something well-contextualized and in right relationship with the environment. But the way we have driven technology over the last 150 years is not that (craftsman-like) at all. It is: "How can we make sure the input materials are homogenized, cut to the same size, diluted and doped. And so everyone gets the same Tickle Me Elmo (or other product) because we have broadcasted that "this is the cool new thing". So we've homogenized demand. Consumption, not need, drives economy now. And status-games are built on this consumption. We've learned that we can create demand and desire, because of broadcast media, in a way that was not possible before. And we don't create desire for each person to connect to some bespoke thing to build a relationship with their neighbor or their spouse, we are telling them: "You need to consume this brand. You need to drive this vehicle. You need to listen to this music. You need to watch this movie." So creating homogenized demand makes it really cheap to create homogenized product. (And this leads to more profit.) And now we have economics of scale. So we make the same Tickle Me Elmo, and give it to all the kids. This ties into runaway-hyper-capitalism because capitalism is always looking for growth, and growth only happens in the margins. So you have to squeeze more and more demand out. You have to make it cheaper and cheaper to make the same thing. But tell everyone that they're still getting meaning from it, that this is still *your* Tickle Me Elmo. But we see critiques of this dripping into popular culture, like when Buzz Lightyear walks into the toy-store and realizes: "I'm just a toy. There's hundreds of other Buzz Lightyears just like me." - Peter Wang

[@vagishmishra4616]

Wow! That was very well put.

[@piotrkonieczynski]

And then they bring limited edition and process starts again. Fuck the game let them eat it this shite.

[@newagain9964]

He’s really got it out for tickle me Elmo. Did he not get one for his kid when first released and suffered for it??

[@piotrkonieczynski]

@@newagain9964 Freud.

[@alexcipriani6003]

This brings together ideas from Heidegger, Elul and Marx

[@richardjohnson9534]

Evil is to us humans what water is a fish. We are swimming in it. It’s so ubiquitous we don’t even notice it. We have been living out of alignment with the very source of what provides meaning in our life for a quite a while. Materialism plays a major role in that. And it’s only a matter of time until the spell is broken and we wake up to realize all the damage we have done. To all that which we thought were most meaningful to us. Life is not an abstraction but we live and love as if it were.

[@julius43461]

I feel like you are onto something. I kind of feel the same way. I think it all comes down to the fact that joy we feel is relative. For example I probably experienced more happiness when I bought my $4000 car, than some rich kid did when his parents bought him his third $60k car. It's relative, and also they joy we feel is tied to how much effort we had to invest before hand. Check out Andrew Huberman, that guy gets this whole thing and explains it scientifically. This is actually amazing, because it means you can outcompete everyone when it comes to the only important thing, and that is how happy you are.

[@julianmarx2002]

​@@julius43461 Yes though I would just qualify that by saying the "outcompete" bit is really against the whole spirit of the thing, as the lion's share of happiness for most (whether they believe it or not) is the selfless contribution to the happiness of others, while the whole market culture/competition language is really at the heart of the entire cultural disease.

[@julius43461]

@@julianmarx2002 I agree. I should have wrote "outcompete", as that was kind of my point. Competing and comparing with others is pointless, and you can be happier than anyone else regardless of how your social standing or social standing.

[@rositsazlatanova1146]

@@julius43461 I agree about the satisfaction from the two cars being probably the same, the more things you have, the faster the euphoria passes with every next purchase but the interview made me think of another aspect of the issue - why do we fall for ads, why is it so important to us to be like everybody else? We cannot survive outside the group, yes, but maybe we should think about how we can encourage independent thinking.

[@dorn885]

Consequence gives meaning. Being chased by a lion is a situation which can have high negative consquences. Only social games like russian roulette give such meaning.

[@BrianDeCosta]

Humble delivery of truth bombs. I love this guest.

[@Regalman]

"Without struggle there is no progress"~ Frederick Douglass

[@RTL2L]

Peter has some really interesting concepts. Thank you!

[@neotower420]

There is a path to strength hidden within the mind and body, the divide will still be a point of separation for those that escape the eye of the real world.. And those who will grow in the new struggle for the last vestige of natural power.

[@The_Wizard_Zoo]

“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Geralt of Rivia

[@timothydelaney119]

Lex your podcast is the best one currently. Thanks buddy.

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

Easy for 2 well off easy life people to say! Its a luxury to sit around and lament about meaning. Someone who is missing an arm struggling isn't gaining any meaning through that experience, its simply a handicap that will negatively impact them forever. There is only so much you can learn from struggle and suffering, and that's greatly offset by its negative impact on you in life. Pursuing challenging things would be a better way to say it.

[@miriamb2367]

At 08:00 I think what's being missed is the fact that all virtual games are only possible if the players have access to stuff made of HARD resources. For example, a KZbinr will need the money and the resources to own a computer and have access to the internet before playing the game. Another great example is the media, they don't have access to hard resources yet they make a lot of money. But who's funding them? People who have access to hard resources. In the end, even the money that is made by playing these games is "weak money" because is DEPENDENT on sponsors and other people who have access to hard assets.

[@superhips135]

This is why Lex goes 30 hours without food🙏😂

[@Q_QQ_Q]

lol making his own crises

[@coloradotrader7202]

life with only struggle is meaningless

[@TheAjrclark]

The 'struggle' has a very different meaning to the 'challenge'. I think this is where Lex (and others) confuses things. The first has an oppressive character - where the individual has no choice but to endure, whereas the latter has positive connotations - and an individual chooses it. It's kind of like the difference between being a starving Sudanese father trying to feed his children and being Christiano Ronaldo performing for Manu. These aren't comparable situations. Lex isn't struggling (I imagine he has more money than me;) He's just choosing to challenge himself, albeit that perhaps doesn't sound as romantic and profound as Lex'd like.

[@julius43461]

I am having a hard time understanding this myself. Personally I found struggle to be liberating. It could be because I have a severe case of ADHD, and if consequences are not right in front of my my nose, I will fail to react and do what's needed. Not until I am pushed into a corner can I put my mind to achieving something. So, if you were to put me into shoes of someone like CR, I will probably mess it all up and won't stop falling until I put myself into a difficult situation. If I were in the Sudanese father's shoes, I would perform much better and might as well find a way to get out of that situation. BTW my struggle was working in a factory for $400. Surely not comparable to some other things people go through, but these outsourced factories hiring cheap labor are pretty brutal still. I did everything avoid having to work in a place like that, and in the end I ended up enjoying it, as I was filled with purpose and was determined to escape the hell and do something more suitable and better paid. Now I'm working from home for a much better salary, gaining weight and feeling as I don't know where to go from there. I became too comfortable very quickly is what I am saying.

[@julianmarx2002]

I would just say that the divide between struggle (as you describe it) and challenge is not nearly as neat as the self-help/KZbin philosophy industry would have you think. For instance, very often in the triumph over a "challenge" (something hard, but mostly good), we simply WILL engender struggle in practice (something mostly bad); we will sacrifice connections with people we love, perhaps, or be really WOUNDED in some aspect of ourselves, in a way that we might never recover from, because we can't have everything in life. And then there is the fact that any challenge really worth confronting has the potential to kill us, literally by default. I think people are very misled into thinking that they can have silver lining 100 percent of the time: I think this has something to do with the ego of the modern individualist mind; nothing will be allowed that doesn't somehow glorify or adorn the SELF, ultimately. There is a challenge-fetish in our culture, where really challenges are a way to make us seem more superior or desirable. Ancient people seemed to understand that the point is to hack away everything, and destroy ourselves, so that we can find the one thing that IS immortal

[@TheAjrclark]

@@julianmarx2002 We might struggle as we're challenged, I understand that. However, one is struggling - because - of the challenge, rather than feeding the family...etc. You can't use 'struggle' as the umbrella term for doing 100 press-ups. You can only really use it as an adjective in that respect. You just sound you're tying to make urself into some kind of martyr, otherwise. I like him, but Lex does do that a bit! I'm a mental health nurse. It's a challenge which involves struggle, but the job couldn't be described as a struggle - like a political movement against oppression can. If the job was a struggle in on itself, I should really think about doing something else. As for 'any challenge worth doing has the potential to kill us'. That kind of made me laugh. It obviously isn't true, and it's somewhat subjective.

[@TheAjrclark]

@@julius43461 I have ADHD/dyslexia, and I have struggled with it too. I think it's feels good to over come struggle, but I don't believe struggle is a good thing in on itself. It's much more important to be happy, and you don't get happy by making your life into a struggle. Choose hard things that you want to do (a challenge), not hard things that you have heaved on you (a struggle) like learning disabilities or mental health issues. My point really, is that Lex is getting these terms mixed up, probably because he likes the martyr thing - a bit too much. Makes me cringe a bit when he says he 'struggling', TBH.

[@julius43461]

@@TheAjrclark I get what you are saying. I find it really hard to figure this out though, as like I said I enjoy the struggle more than the average person for sure. I think it has a lot to do with simplicity. One of the best things about living a comfortable life in the first world is that you have many options. Yet, for me options are paralyzing, and I get stuck indefinitely trying to figure out what the best course of action is. Same thing happens when I have more disposable income. Struggle is simple. You know exactly what you need to do to escape it. It might not be easy, but your options are limited and analysis paralysis is not something you will concern yourself with. Maybe I am misusing the word as well, but this is how I see this at the moment. I fully realize the absurdity of it as well, as I would never willfully put myself into a bad situation, just to struggle and "enjoy" life that way.

[@agatainventio9464]

To keep living you need to keep solving problems in goal towards something meaningful

[@matthewquinn4400]

What if entropy was actually mother nature’s way of suffering….

[@bemadamigos6622]

Doesn't entropy increases with time?

[@jackc5444]

Life without struggle is a vacation.

[@steratorefriends6596]

So, arrange yourself to where the necessary struggle is minimized by realizing your own path of least resistance

[@andyd568]

Peter: "choosing between Hermès and Chanel is not a meaningful decision." Lex: "I don't know what either of those mean..." Hearing this made me smile.

[@will-se7wj]

Peter's monologue at the end about homogenized capitalism... Bravo.

[@taughtbytragedy]

Gamifying eliminates need for suffering. Simulated struggles can be made by anyone. Sports, exercise, creative art. Struggle does not have to involve real death. Even death can be simulated with psychedelics. This is why psychedelics shoots “meaning” with a shotgun to the head.

[@caioghp]

Peter Wang seems to believe that the meaning crisis started with the industrial revolution. What about greek philosophy, Egyptian religion, Gobleki Tepe ruins? He basically ignores all of human experience in search for meaning through art, religion, science before buying sneakers. Not very convincing.

[@chrisdavey3113]

Tend to agree with this. This is based around the current meaning crisis but I don't believe this is a new thing for humanity at all.

[@piotrkonieczynski]

There is a bigger game and they only scratch the barrel with little screwdrivers.

[@turolretar]

I love how this guy living in the upper privileged class of people says life is meaningless without struggle. He only says that because life is different now, people don’t struggle so much, and also, that kinda goes back to this - humans always want the opposite of what they have now and are constantly unsatisfied. You certainly want a life filled with challenges so that you evolve your character (or at least that life’s not boring), but struggle isn’t always good and depends on what you call struggle. Back in the past, slaves were struggling every day of their lives not by choice and that’s really unfortunate. Did it give them meaning? Probably, yes. But at what cost? Their life most definitely could’ve been different. In my opinion we should speak carefully about this topic. Though, I totally understand why there’s such a reaction from this guy - consumerism certainly swayed peoples priorities in the wrong direction.

[@middlegrounds109]

You hit the nail right on the head . correct.

[@justinbyrge8997]

"Life without struggle is meaningless." Says those relatively few who have jobs they love, the resources they need to live, people who care for them, and a 'matter of fact' attitude that tends to create struggle for those who neither need nor want it.

[@miriamb2367]

Struggle can also be paralyzing, too much struggle, and too few resources. So yeah...

[@julianmarx2002]

Totally get you ; its always pretty tone deaf for these Yale socialite/scientists to make these sorts of statements

[@mariamountain6718]

I get where you are coming from, but maybe that's the mindset that got them to where they are.

[@justinbyrge8997]

@@mariamountain6718 If true then you missed my main point.

[@piotrkonieczynski]

It is only a facade. Lovely job etc. All humans struggle some less some more.

[@cherubin7th]

Idk there are texts from people wondering about meaning from several thousand years ago. I think, that many very ancient people (10 000 years ago) wondered: Why should I even go out search for food, what is the meaning of this?

[@Zayden.]

There is no absolute standard of living. We can't just look back at hunter gatherers and say we have it much better so that means we have no material discontent. The standard of living has drastically changed, evolved over the ages. People compare to what's available and possible in the current state of affairs, with current resources and technology. And when you look at it that way, in this world economy of advanced industry, 8/10 people live on under $10/day. This causes distrust in the ruling institutions, and general discontent, lack of hope in the future, and lack of meaning.

[@erheetrherh2659]

People living in comfort telling people "Life without struggle is meaningless" lol

[@saifkhan-kp6jk]

"I don't know what either of those mean"

[@sirturd2954]

I know this is only the simplest way to address the topic, but I’ve often wondered if there’s such a thing as “good” without the contrast of “bad” I a,ways figured they would be relative to one another.

[@amp394]

Powerful, can't wait to see the full thing.

[@johnswanger8474]

If the "survival game" has largely been solved in developed parts of the world, thus solving this notion of inherent meaning via continued existence, what *would* you replace that with, anyways? In other words, if the baseline definition of meaning is hunter-gatherer survival, wouldn't everything else after be contrived? Concepts of spirituality, social status, excess wealth accumulation, leisure; it's all attempts to fill in a blank that you've created because the prior puzzle has been solved. Humanitarian efforts seem truly meaningful, however, what then occurs when you solve hunger in every village in the world, construct infrastructure, scale means of production up and... you're solving their inherent consequential meaning. That sounds incorrect to me, so I'd lean towards suspecting there's some issue with the original premise. I feel that consequence is absolutely central to our sense of meaningful existence, but I'd argue that a person generally can appreciate the experience as meaningful even if it's contrived or artificial. The idea of game theory comes to mind. And specifically, once you get a cheat code, the appeal of the game decays rapidly. Similarly, once you've "completed" all provided content in a video game, many people find continued enjoyment by creating their own self-created challenges and goals that almost always resemble some sort of struggle.

[@jv-dz2pj]

The non-physical realms are all transient. Sooner or later, everything will return to cold, hard, physical reality. When this happens, the people who have most removed themselves from fundamental reality will suffer the most.

[@richardc861]

How do you come to the transient view? Feels like we as a society are becoming more and more virtual/digitalised.

[@jv-dz2pj]

@@richardc861 Hard to answer with limited time/space, but basically: Virtual world will likely become more pervasive (serving as the new opiate of the masses) in the near term. If most people elect to primarily "exist" in the virtual world (or if they are coerced to participate), eventually, whether in 20 years or 200 years (both periods being just a blip in the long timeline of human history) physical reality will prevail. The circumstances of the inevitable return to the preeminence of physical reality could include i) shortages of natural resources (you can't live on virtual food), ii) disease (no virtual cures), and/or iii) physical violence between individuals (you could blissfully live in a virtual world until someone knocks your vr headset off with a real baseball bat) or countries, iv) etc..

[@richardc861]

@@jv-dz2pj yeah I feel the more people are on their phones, online etc, the more our general physical infrastructure will stagnate and decay. Crumble down around us in other words while our attention is on a device.

[@user-wl1hv3uh6i]

Damn I havent watched this many clips from a Lex guest outside of Malice. Peter Wang Plz start a Podcast!

[@theronin365]

Lex is a superhero before he changes his clothes.

[@STaSHZILLA420]

How does one define pleasure without pain?

[@sagarjaju375]

I get and agree with the title and the conclusion of the concept "life is meaningless without struggle" but I don't agree with the parts of the explanation. Humans have been searching for a meaning from a long time. It's not just a recent post industrial age phenomena. From the very ancient civilization to up untill now humans have been understanding and exploring these concepts.

[@newagain9964]

Ikr.. I haven’t needed struggles to have a meaningful life.

[@Sonofserbia]

Life without hard work is a bludge

[@hanyanglee9018]

First thing first, how do you define the concept of "meaning"?

[@AusDemSchneider]

Amazingly said! Merry Christmas

[@bradbear]

Merry Christmas Lex! Please have John Vervaike on! He’s a master of discussing this topic

[@nathanforrest3483]

Too much struggles and it will also be meaningless.

[@mickeydangerez]

Just like life with only struggle...

[@nsc2443]

Meaning = feeling

[@S5000Krad]

Life has no meaning in the first place. If the point of life is to struggle, then you are a suffering type.

[@piotrkonieczynski]

Yes, we try only to play games to kill the existence time. There is also nothing to win.

[@S5000Krad]

@@piotrkonieczynski pretty much. Essentially any goal you set in life, as the point of your life, once accomplished, makes your life pointless. Some people mentally break once they achieve the goal, some create a new goal. But all that is just a distraction. People run away from themselves.

[@conforzo]

We love disparaging and moralising the people of history thinking we're surperior. In fact they can teach more than any instagram-influencer ever will.

[@atypeofcool]

Hell yeah brother

[@Reno_Slim]

Then I must have multiple lifetimes of meaning. Lucky me.

[@vincentcain5880]

This is one of those things that I know affects a lot of people because I see it all around me but a part of me feels like this is such a lame crisis. Oh, you feel lack of meaning in your life even though you are fortunate enough to keep buying the latest iphone/fancy clothes/luxury car? You poor thing. Then on the other side of that there's the dumb poor people that get in debt just to follow that trend, which is just pathetic. Life without purpose is meaningless. The struggle for me is having less and less opportunity in a land where the rich are mindlessly worshiped for being the selfish assholes that they are by stupid less fortunate morons that wish they were rich but NEVER will be.

[@Inclusivevingtsun]

I would say that this is true only on the level of Intellect and Survival, on those levels of existence (on a Consciousness Scale) struggle is the basis of your existence, but this is more animal nature/existence, not Humanity level, we can go way way beyond just Surviving like the animals, so when one reaches a higher level of Consciousness, Struggle is no longer needed, challenge is no longer need for one to know, be creative, to live intensely, because You realise that You are Life, Life is Within, not outside via people, places or things/circumstances. Right Now the general level of Consciousness is below the level to Realize this, which is why even top level inventors and scientist or Intellects are still thinking "We need Struggle, strive, Challenge" to have Meaning...James

[@studleydewrite2942]

@Inclusive Well Being Inclusive Ving Tsun Merry Christmas. Respectfully,I see it quite differently. It seems to me that you view human civilization as superior to the natural world - that we are on a higher level of existence. This is what Schopenhauer called 'the first lie' that we humans are the 'all knowing animal'. I see the launch of human civilization as the moment we chose to pick a fight with nature - and,thereby,challenged a system as old as the cosmos. I feel that our species would have lasted far longer living with nature rather than building a wall between ourselves and our natural environment. We came into being because that environment was the 'ideal' for our species. We developed an artificial environment (civilization) and we developed a super-power,..the ability to pat ourselves on the back for our 'accomplishments' when,in fact,we are hurtling toward extinction. It's been said that to live is to suffer (struggle),that knowledge is sorrow,..and I agree.

[@Inclusivevingtsun]

@@studleydewrite2942 Hi Studley and Merry Xmas to You too...The idea of Superior/Inferior, like the ideas of Good/Bad, Right/Wrong etc. are those of the Intellect, which is Survival Based Consciousness. We, like any living thing are a part of Nature, not separate from it, but we as Humans have more ability to be Conscious of this, so we not superior, just enabled more. Once one is totally Conscious, or Enlightened, then You are One with Nature, there is no You and it, Subject and Object, so one is now Complete, when in that experience no one needs to say to You "Save the Trees, the Rivers, the Soil, or Earth itself" b/c this is all You, or You are all of it..Its no Different from getting a cut on your skin, you fix it naturally, you don't have to Love it, or Worship it, or anything with it (no judgement) you just do what is needed..So b/c our general Consciousness level is below that, more on a Survival level, then we feel/experience ourselves as Separate from everything, not just nature, but from ourselves as a Species, and even now with our varying ideologies about Everything lol...Once our Consciousness level rises as a Humanity, then all things will naturally be fixed, as easy as putting a band aid on a cut, its just not going to happen for a long time, not within my life span anyways:) James

[@studleydewrite2942]

@Inclusive Well Being Inclusive Ving Tsun Our views may be different but I could never oppose our species raising it's collective consciousness. Thank you for the exchange.

[@julianmarx2002]

Meh, the only way one can really claim that "struggle is essential to a happy life" is to drastically stretch the boundaries of the word "struggle", because the idea that we need to be literally chasing down a gazelle to be happy is obviously false - if by struggle one instead describes something like the eternal struggle against ignorance (i.e. through meditation, intense study, a closer approximation to truth), or the struggle of mastering a craft for the good of man, well then fine. But if one does stretch the meaning of the word in such a way, then the idea that "Struggle=Happiness" become little more than a truism, since no matter what we do or what measure of luxury we achieve, life is always a struggle in SOME non-arbitrary sense, by default. Our body systems, for example, already "struggle" against the elements in every waking moment to maintain life. Yet this fact does not seem to be enough to make modern people happy. We need not struggle to be happy, no. We need, among other things, pay greater attention to the miraculousness of life, which is akin to a struggle to cease struggling.

[@PlatinumState]

I strongly disagree. I've had struggles but I dont believe someone having no struggles is meaningless. I wish that was me

[@jonhylow1239]

I`d agree on the topic, BUT what we could and should do better, is to find out, what kind of struggle, at what moment in someone`s developüment or life,. at which degree and for how long , would be exactly right ?! Once we have figured that out we need to include that into our social structures.. Our structures need to be so good, that they will eliminate every bit of unnecessary suffering or struggle, bc it aint good for nothing. It only causes destruction and negativity. Tbh they should have started researching that on their own, 60 ,100 or maybe even 1000 years ago and this is only one reason, why our culture is MASSIVELY underdevelepoped and appr. 500 to 1000 years behind its normal development imo. If we want to determine or define how a normal development should or would look like, we only need to take a look, at how well things( people, economical, social and financial, the environment, , etc are interacting with each other.

[@prismgems]

Life without struggle? That's called enlightenment. In Chan they used to say, "Shakyamuni [the historical Buddha] taught for 45 years, and never said a single word." The body goes through the motions, but there is no "I", so there is no struggle, because there is no one doing anything. We can see the same thing in Christianity: Jesus (another enlightened teacher) said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." I know, I know, off topic, maybe even trolling, since you aren't talking to that audience. :-)

[@affection788]

This clip was so good.

[@hnd2893]

Struggle-schmuggle. Don't know about y'all, but I can give life a lot more meaning without the struggle. If you find meaning in struggle, then it's time to reassess thing's.

[@julius43461]

I don't know man, I was always good at making my life very comfortable for myself. Yet, when comfortable I would enjoy it for a while, and then it all loses meaning and I start making decisions that lead me to struggle again. It's been 1 year since I started working a much more comfortable better paid job, and I feel nostalgic about the time where I was just grinding and doing everything possible to escape that lousy factory job I was stuck in. I think it has to do with clarity. When you are in a shitty situation you know exactly what you need to do. You want to get out of that situation and the path is often very obvious. When you are well off you have more options, which can often lead to choice fatigue.

[@Anton680x]

Define struggle and meaning.

[@craigphillips6308]

Struggle is not necessary, nor is suffering. If you believe it is, then realize thats just your belief. It’s not the Truth. Truth is simple: there is only Now, and within this eternal Now, everything is constantly changing, except the space of Now.

[@freedomdividendnews5042]

"life without struggle is meaningless" false. Efficiency is very meaningful and requires the least amount of struggle

[@nicksharma8238]

What about art then? Art can give meaning, but efficiency is not necessarily a part of the creative process...

[@freedomdividendnews5042]

@@nicksharma8238 life has many things that give meaning. Struggle is one of the most laughable ones

[@nicksharma8238]

@@freedomdividendnews5042 ok cool, I see what you mean

[@newagain9964]

@@freedomdividendnews5042 ikr. struggle is a highly useful feature in the theatre of the absurd .

[@celpabedn]

Struggle is overrated, people who are smart do not struggle,they have problems,they work,but do not struggle!

[@Spookyhoobster]

I was about to come in here and rant my head off, but this clip wasn't even about "life and struggle", "the trap of consumerism" would been a better title imo. That being said, life + struggle does not guarantee meaning. You need to know where to look and how to think, otherwise you're just gonna let cynicism and pessimism creep in and eventually snap.

[@cristiangaban960]

What doesn't kill you, debilitates you. Stop romanticizing suffering for the sake of having something to do.

[@kellanaldous7092]

Yeah, but struggle without life is meaningless as well. Thats all most people have.

[@JurijPopotnig]

Life without struggle is meaningless, yes, but a life full of struggle can be quite a pain in the ass.

[@ferndog1461]

The civilian folks in the middle of forced famines in Africa have the most struggle. Therefore, they have the most insight on life?

[@lukejo7994]

happy new year

[@greencarpetgrowing]

Crisis and process = growth. No crisis, no growth.

[@1971jwing]

Cool topic. In my view the intrinsic value is the individual, and the entire point of consciousness is to iterate. Tribalism is a real "Snafu" and suggests "We" aren't good at large groups in general when it comes to allocation by virtue. First come first serve and all. So, why do we build systems for which there are so few victors or large pools of singular entity with crappy paradigms? Perhaps because we are still animals first? Robots don't need greed. Maslow's by robot can equivocate and provide platform to harness the individuals' talents toward shared intent. Off world colonization? That way, we can fulfill our truth as humans... Caretaker and protector of life. Life is the only thing that is valuable. Great health to all.

[@mynameis5427]

I'm going off the title here, but life without struggle is not meaningless. To equate life with struggle would be to say that you have never tasted the fullness of what life actually is.

[@skinnymoonbob]

But what if your whole life is struggle?

[@citvdelblvck]

this explains a lot about our current political climate

[@ryanjacoby5616]

Do yourself a favor and watch “The century of self” by Adam Curtis. He explains how consumerism and hyper individualism reshaped America in the 20th century. Bernays is a main character

[@fabsmaster5309]

Alphabet is worth 316 times more than US Steel. Virtual resources are worth more than hard resources these days.

[@ttownsupreme2183]

Im confused what do you mean ?

[@sebenfc1982]

Does meaningless then manifests into unhappiness? Does a homeless mother with four kids and expecting a fifth have better more fulfilling life than 40 old man who inherited wealth playing video games everyday. Where is the threashold?

[@ashelyrudd2194]

Wasn't there a great book named My Struggle

[@swoorupjoshi4638]

As soon as I heard not good for the planet, opted out of this guy.

[@markgillespie8829]

Life without God is meaningless.

[@OhJaniceWhyOhWhy]

Praise be to Allah and Buddha.

[@blengi]

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm going to technologically out source my struggles so I have more time for meaning and other even more fulfilling things lol. Besides, when we all have portable AI superintelligence addons, the notion of meaning will probably cease to be meaningful, and struggle will likely be perceived as just some antiquated relic from the era of primitive minds. It's just simple supply and demand. What person wouldn't desire to be sucked into an unlimited ego centric vortex of hedonism and experiences so profound that makes "meaning" in comparison seem like some quaint and naïve children's like perspective of a virtuous existence. What do humans know of the potential possibilities beyond human conception that await them in the not too distant future? Heck there's probably a whole palette of impossibly kool emotional states a million times more fulfilling than what any struggle could elicit.

[@TrongNguyen-lq8gd]

How about life is meaningless with or without struggle. Just imagine you die tomorow and left everything behind. Your concious get back to the time you born and looping infinitely.

[@cristiangaban960]

Life is objectively meaningless. All we do is fulfill needs that we have because we exist. We impose life and then struggle to solve the problems it creates. We're cleaning a tiny percent of the mess we're making in the process of survival. It's consumption and reproduction without a reason. Of course you only get the chance to think about it after your belly is full. But the real question is why do we keep reproducing ?We're romanticized struggle and suffering and came out with all kinds of subjective and irrational reasons for reproducing ,but the truth is we're just maggots with a sense of fashion ,eating dirt and trying to make it another day all for some crazy idea in our heads that we're accomplishing something great in the Universe and that we're needed.

[@zedetach]

Peter is on the money with his views on the homogenization of consumption. It's getting increasingly hard for people, especially the young ones to identify what it is they truly want in life when they're constantly being conditioned to keep up with what's cool.

[@antun88]

Yes. What is a life without being mauled by a grizzly at least once?

[@juliosalgado956]

I trully hate these wealthy philosophers.

[@aidandm5987]

interesting because ive been struggling and it still feels pretty meaningless

[@takkiejakkie5458]

I will never understand why many glorify or rationalize suffering as if it is intrinsically good. If I could choose to remove all suffering with a click on a button, I would do so immediately. And everyone who wouldn't is a sick sadist, brainwashed or simply stupid in my opinion.

[@zn9861]

It's more like if there is no suffering, the fun things get less enjoyable. If you get everything without any work it's worth deminishes.

[@actliketonymontana]

Ok. Remove every movie show or film with a struggle story in it. Let’s see how entertaining ur world is

[@Outplayedqt]

@@faboolean7039 Feels like I’ve had my fair share of suffering for almost 3 decades now and if anything, I’m on the bitter end of things, not better. Maybe I still have some growing up to do.

[@matthewquinn4400]

Funny how our versions of suffering go out the window when the next inevitable natural disaster spontaneously arrives.

[@takkiejakkie5458]

@@iHardscope68 I understand perfectly well how the ability to suffer evolved. Understanding the how, however, does not mean it's something I should be happy about. Or that I can't think of other ways that evolution could have taken place that would have been better from a utilitarian perspective. I, for example, could imagine a race of self-replicating computers or biological organisms that either never feel any suffering or only are able to experience pure joy. I understand why humans opt to glorify suffering to an extent. Because it's almost unavoidable due to our biology (and that of most in the tree of life). But it isn't impossible to imagine an organism incapable of suffering which could be very successful regardless.

[@aidakalefa659]

Very good

[@grimalteruism8641]

easy stop playing the game,and learn what true freedom is or lose it forever

[@mrr5424]

Am I the only person feeling shock hearing 2:27?

[@solomonhanks2665]

Wow this guy is smart!

[@arturogomeztagle9250]

Okay send me $10k or $100k so you can struggle some more…the man who knows no struggle often touts its benefits.

[@joyboy-zx]

Lol exactly. I hate these ppl with underdog mentality that life's purpose is to struggle in the rat race

[@imtryinghere1]

This is not exactly what he's talking about. He's talking about hedonistic, meaningless consumption vs. sacrifice/risk and rewards.

[@Zayden.]

@@imtryinghere1 he still misses the picture. the fact of the matter is most people don't have the opportunity for creative trial-and-error, sacrifice/risk and rewards. 8/10 people on this planet live on under $10/day. They just work to access food, clothing, shelter and medicine for themselves and their kids. And then die.

[@imtryinghere1]

@@Zayden. And that's not what he's addressing. He's not speaking to that audience, is he?

[@seamusmcfitz913]

These pseudoacademics crack me up. Life without giving and not expecting anything in return is meaningless. You don't need struggle for that.

[@dvanrooyen1434]

Life has to be about struggle to achieve, then achieve, then enjoy mini success, reset, then redo the cycle.