The fall of the Roman Republic | Gregory Aldrete and Lex Fridman

[@LexClips]

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqrSh4mJnMyDoLs Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: lexfridman.com/sponsors/cv7908-sa See below for guest bio, links, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. *GUEST BIO:* Gregory Aldrete is a historian specializing in ancient Rome and military history. *CONTACT LEX:* *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: lexfridman.com/survey *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: lexfridman.com/ama *Hiring* - join our team: lexfridman.com/hiring *Other* - other ways to get in touch: lexfridman.com/contact *EPISODE LINKS:* Gregory's Website: gregorysaldrete.com/ Gregory's Books: amzn.to/3z6NiKC Gregory's Great Courses Plus: www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/gregory-s-aldrete Gregory's Audible: adbl.co/4e72oP0 *SPONSORS:* To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-cv7908-sa *Shopify:* Sell stuff online. Go to lexfridman.com/s/shopify-cv7908-sa *AG1:* All-in-one daily nutrition drinks. Go to lexfridman.com/s/ag1-cv7908-sa *BetterHelp:* Online therapy and counseling. Go to lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-cv7908-sa *ExpressVPN:* Fast & secure VPN. Go to lexfridman.com/s/expressvpn-cv7908-sa *PODCAST LINKS:* - Podcast Website: lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: kzbin.info *SOCIAL LINKS:* - X: x.com/lexfridman - Instagram: instagram.com/lexfridman - TikTok: tiktok.com/@lexfridman - LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: facebook.com/lexfridman - Patreon: patreon.com/lexfridman - Telegram: t.me/lexfridma - Reddit: reddit.com/r/lexfridman

[@komisiantikorupsikoruptord6257]

13:55 like in this Soviet the highest post was not army commander or party leader . or president but general secretary 15:23😂

[@rjakbar]

kzbin.infoiZyy74suMBU?si=sU2EbGbaKXU8JeOj

[@stephenbooth63]

M😊😊😊😊ll😊p😊lll😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊ll😊😊😊😊😊😊😊lpp and ppppp😊😊😊😊😊😊😊pllpppp😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@tiredsentinel1724]

One of the best things to witness is a historian excited to talk about history.

[@ashtonjenkins152]

Made Highschool history class unforgettable

[@adammotschenbacher8473]

Rome on HBO encapsulates everything this man is retelling. Amazing show

[@reg6947]

Lies. They think Romans were gay dudes.

[@thor.halsli]

The cancellation of Rome was a crime against humanity. They had planned 5 seasons. We were even supposed to get the birth of Jesus and the implications around the rise of christianity in one of the seasons.

[@arfaatsyed6853]

Atia 🤤

[@darktagmaster1861]

@@arfaatsyed6853 I always liked Octavia, myself

[@reg6947]

@@adammotschenbacher8473 so lies.

[@ConsciousYouthInitiative]

History doesn’t repeat itself- it rhymes.

[@ninjaepic2095]

😂😂😂

[@ninjaepic2095]

😂😂😂

[@gamebredo8880]

I'm sure you watched that us retired sniper interview lol

[@alixcollins1773]

Nice and unoriginal

[@reg6947]

@@ConsciousYouthInitiative cliches seem to make sense , but they don't.

[@manbearpig7359]

You didn't acknowledge Octavians ability to surround himself with and use very talented men who filled the gaps in his own talents. Eg Agrippa and Maceneas

[@rikimaruakanomad2]

Aggripa.. the MVP

[@manbearpig7359]

@rikimaruakanomad2 He seems to be that rare person in history who had the self awareness, humility, and self control to be so close to absolute power, but never grasp at it and attempt to take it from Octavian

[@eyeofthetiger7]

Now this is a good historian and communicator

[@libvlog2264]

IKR

[@reg6947]

Really? I guarantee the institution he works at lies about most of history , biology , Christianity , Western civilization , Sex , and Gov't. That makes him a coward.

[@BudaMac]

Agreed

[@reg6947]

@@eyeofthetiger7 That means he's lying in a different way.

[@eyeofthetiger7]

@@reg6947 who hurt you?

[@dubshire7345]

What a great History Teacher! He presents this material in such an interesting manner…

[@MrSalbego]

Prove it by taking a test.

[@midnightchannel111]

These talks are great, thank you for posting.

[@manuellara1999]

Caesar was a populist. Say what you want of his ambitions. But he did institute large reforms to the late republic, which at this point had grown to become a rotting system, for the benefit of the people. His reforms were popular and largely accepted by the common people. The senate had grown to an aristocracy that put their benifet before the people. His history although accurate to some extent; is overly simplified. History is much more complex, his stance also come off as anti-Caesar. His soldiers also didn’t just “follow” Caesar for no reason. He had lead them to great victories in Gaul and in Spain. He also paid them much better than the senate ever did. Also gave them land and money compared to the senate which had ground down and had become corrupt and impotent. By the way land and money was something that was promised to every Roman veteran after he had completed their service by the senate. Something the senate had dragged their feet about delivering.

[@theawesomeman9821]

You are right. Caeser was a patriotic nationalist who lost faith in the republic and did what he thought he had to do to save his country from ruin.

[@patriciaatkinson2435]

And for this, he was assassinated?.

[@pompeythegreat297]

Essentially claimed Caesar was selfish, and did everything for personal reasons..... Can say the same thing about any politician....

[@pompeythegreat297]

@patriciaatkinson2435 He pissed off the elites

[@michaeldavid6832]

The Roman Senate was corrupt in the same way our Senate is today -- they pass laws which enrich themselves and their friends at the expense of everyone else.

[@FAMA-18]

The term dictator back then had a different meaning, it does not have the same meaning of a dictator of today. The Roman concept of a dictator was quite different from the modern understanding. In ancient Rome, a dictator was a temporary, emergency appointment. The office was created to provide decisive leadership in times of crisis, such as war or civil unrest. The dictator had absolute power, but this authority was strictly limited in time and scope. Once the crisis was resolved, the dictator was expected to resign. This is in stark contrast to modern dictators, who often seize power through force, rule indefinitely, and suppress dissent. While the Roman dictator had extraordinary authority, it was intended to be a temporary measure, not a permanent change to the political system.

[@MsDragonbal776]

Ahhh yes. The ancient Roman equivalent of martial law

[@bondalemecovillage6738]

Like Dan Andrews in Victoria Australia with his lock down laws during the plandemic

[@basedack]

That's why Caesar was considered so dangerous. He didn't want to give up his power like how his predecessors did.

[@itswysdumb]

this sounds so familiar

[@이상휘-c9u]

game of thrones?

[@Puddin-Tamir]

Democrats am I rite

[@Stoffstoffer]

Demagogue.. Think orange buffoon

[@nbkw2ae]

@@Puddin-Tamiryes. & republicans, including Trump.

[@lattrelbia2527]

​@@Puddin-Tamirboth sides. Remember what trump said about POWs. Or when those paras just couldn't hide their disdain from Biden

[@ChiefPineapple77]

Absolutely love when Alex has this Gentlemen on!

[@billywoollard1621]

As much as I can empathise with the republic/USA comparisons, a key point that stands amiss, is that it was the the republican armies - not untrained civilians - who precipitated the fractures. Moreover these large roaming militias were led by trained military commanders and no overarching military or police in place to quell the rising discomforts. The comparisons are reductionistic

[@CJLiveFromTheOutdoors]

Good point.

[@Greysprunkiyay]

Yeah there are key differences plus Rome was never spending 60% of their tax revenue funding lazy and useless bums. I really don’t care about the resentment held by non-net tax contributors.

[@manbearpig7359]

@billywoollard1621 True. However history repeats not so much in the exact details of who and what is the causal effect of , for example, the downfall of a nation or a society, but rather the underlying societal attitudes that are prevalent , and political sentiments and character of the main players. The one phrase that really resonates with me is how men like Marius through Julius Caesar chipped away at the boundaries of what was considered good and honourable (the norms) until the political standards became so low that when one man came along who had no standards except self interest, the whole system collapsed.

[@daltonpatterson3402]

While I agree, I read a fiction novel called "Diveded we fall" that somewhat addresses that, as in the national guards being loyal to states.

[@bradleywilliamclarkefisher5675]

rome is the blueprint on how imperialism functions. America simply inherited that blueprint , for now.

[@leftwingmofos]

History rhymes because it’s filled with people. People have common needs and motivations. Details may change but one cannot remove human nature.

[@MrBalancelight]

Agreed!

[@MsDragonbal776]

Yup. That's exactly it. And of course, the fact history is often taught as a factual kind of endeavor, where people are constantly taught to memorize names and dates, but not but not how to empathize with people of the past. "Communism is bad"? Ok, then why did so many people support it initially. "Caesar was a tyrant"? Then why was he so beloved by the people, that upon his assassination, the conspirators had to flee the city. You could go on and on with this..

[@ejf0255]

Mr Aldrete is just an amazing world of Roman knowledge. Makes learning fun and exciting.

[@JoseDiaz-hu9zj]

Just finished his lectures about the Roman Empire on “the great courses”… it’s over 20 different in depth 30 min to 1 hour lectures on everything Ancient Rome from the beginning to the end… If u like this interview it’s worth the watch!

[@ineednoname3158]

Where to listen those lectures?

[@JustDelta767]

This is scary how eerily familiar all of this sounds.

[@charzanboo9940]

Yes, Trump is the new Octavian/Augustus and will usher in a new era of peace and stability for the US after desposing the Biden/Harris regime.

[@EliteClinicalResearch]

This guy is really fascinating with his storytelling

[@MultiMojo]

Coming soon to the USA !

[@jibbt4059]

Then you don’t understand how world economics work if you actually think that

[@reg6947]

Lol..imagine thinking that the U.S.A. can be saved through libertarianism and voting?

[@JoniAntonio]

They said that same thing shortly before the civil war. WWI, WWII, Civil rights etc.

[@Noumenon4Idolatry]

@@reg6947 Define saving it. What is the end result?

[@lyricofwise6894]

​@@jibbt4059Macroeconomics and geopolitics operate alongside it

[@lukeyval]

this is literally the US

[@ghoulgoon2889]

lol

[@yourdashingheroidol7909]

The U.S hasn't been around nearly as long.

[@Moananuiākea]

​@yourdashingheroidol7909 still doesn't negate the fact that america is the strongest empire as of today in such a short time.

[@bradpirochta9293]

Figuratively literally, or literally literally?

[@DaTroof69]

Yeah and we’re witnessing the eventual collapse of the US 15 more years and it will be unrecognizable thank the democrats

[@jasonwelsh417]

This sounds eerily familiar.

[@koyotemoon111]

I wouldn't say Octavian was a "nobody" bc he was royalty AND he was trained by his uncle.

[@christiangomez4435]

Crazy how this sounds so so familiar with times today 😢😢😢

[@alextheman3330]

It’s scary the similarities between the fall of Rome and the downward spiral of America. Especially on the veteran side! We don’t get enough help and the system SUCKS!!!

[@ianaherne77]

Rome was only rising when the republic fell. It got bigger, more powerful and richer. The arrival of Obama and Trump would draw a parallel to the late republic. The US empire is still comparatively young

[@koyotemoon111]

well, then you can look forward to the military dictatorship phase of the process when the military essentially chose the emperors and obviously the ones who gave the most benefits were the ones who were chosen.

[@anythingthoughanythingthou2453]

Vets have become welfare queens who after doing nothing to protect the common man but only fighting for the interests of big business demand to get our tax dollars from us. The propaganda has lost its effect on much of the American population, we see the military for what it is now. Welfare queens and those that keep us down.

[@notastone4832]

the common factor in the downfall of both nations: corruption, usury and everything else jewish

[@craignaylor2648]

Ok I gotta find the full interview with this guy I love history

[@ryanlowe2808]

Very good! Really enjoyed this. Lot can be learned from this time in history. Big, powerful, controlling powers (nations) collapse from their own actions, greed and hubris…

[@alanwilson175]

Lex, the video makes several interesting points about Octavius (or Augustus Caesar). One thing that is also important is that Octavius selects his successor - Tiberius. To clear the way for Tiberius, we think Octavius made sure that the possible challengers were executed at the same time that Octavius finally dies. Octavius succeeded in organizing the Roman Empire, and he also created a method of succession for the next Emperor. This turns out to be important later, when later Emperors have to select, or adopt, their successor. When Emperors selected their successor and then died, the Empire continued in a more or less orderly way. In a few cases when Emperors refused to select a successor (e.g. Caligula and Nero), or their successor died prematurely, the Empire had a period of instability or civil war. What kept the Empire going during these civil wars was the fact that there were no other military forces that could intervene to take over -- until the final fall of the western Roman Empire in 476 CE.

[@michaeldavid6832]

They think Nero wasn't the bad guy he was made out to be. We read accounts of Nero from those who loathed him for political reasons. The famous "fiddling while Rome burned". The instrument referred to as the "fiddle" hadn't yet been invented in Nero's time.

[@koyotemoon111]

And also the fact that Octavian had created essentially a well oiled machine. I think that it is important to note that you may have one good dictator and then a dozen idiots and monsters.

[@eliotsalandybrown]

Fascinating 👍

[@kings-wf2lj]

What is often left out and was in this clip is the Roman Senate at this time had become very corrupt and wasn't exactly doing what was best for the people and rather enriching themselves and their familys.

[@whathappenedtofreethinking6902]

Pretty much same as here

[@9latinumStudioz]

Fascinating 💫

[@maz7621]

Glad he corrected Lex on thinking Augustus was a good guy.

[@buckfasthero]

It’s like horoscopes, you can usually twist it enough to fit your own situation

[@fordjubilee]

Exactly

[@Dovahkiin0117]

It’s called confirmation bias and can be applied to literally anything

[@nikolablagojevic253]

Amazing way how Octavian managed to float in this game power. Since he was just 18, who advised him?

[@landonic81]

Joe Biden

[@grimmertwin2148]

​@landonic81 hey genius don't forget it's woke to vote Buh

[@CJLiveFromTheOutdoors]

Julius Caesar spotted Gaius Octavius's (Octavian) genius early on. Octavian was exceptionally bright and wily despite his youth. I don't know of any sources identifying a mentor to him after Julius Caesar"s death. He did have a knack for surrounding himself with remarkably bright and loyal ftiends (as mentioned in other comments here) like Agrippa and Mycenas. We would all be fortunate to have a friend as competent, loyal and hardworking as Agrippa.

[@Greysprunkiyay]

@@grimmertwin2148yes voting for a drunk floozy who slept her way to power is woke. It’s literally the epitome of DEI

[@thehonesttruth8808]

What does that even mean?

[@Whatisright]

People don't appreciate how much of the past does dictate the future especially systems of power and ways of control.

[@diegomagellan]

History rhyming

[@langdeezy4681]

Sounds like he's a fan of the roman senate. I don't think it's fair he paints julius caesar in such a bad light considering it's very likely he had valid reasons to believe they were corrupt and looking out for THEIR own interests vs the people, who were at large very supportive of him. He was a military man and an effective leader who actually made notable achievements. What were members of the senate known for aside from murdering their leader and being ran out of town.

[@chaichantheshiba5902]

history repeats itself: inequality

[@Umega101]

Is your answer Socialism? I mean... it's not like we haven't watched that collapse a whole lot faster and more dramatically over n over n over again to the point that the current governments trying to use a Socialist System have implemented more and more Capitalism mechanisms to keep their governance intact, but sure... let's keep trying that one or something until we force it to work because why force people to do a good job when we should let everyone be as lazy as they want for free

[@Umega101]

Sure, cause Socialism has worked out so well thus far in every country that uses it as the staple............. San Fran, Portland, LA are also all shining and majestic beacons for inequality that are doing so, so _well_ with Big Tech and ridiculous taxes bankrolling all the AMAZING _results_

[@grimmertwin2148]

The New Barbarians. Keith and Ron😂

[@Bwilkes]

Sounds really familiar

[@D_really_T]

What an insane period to live in, these Pharoahs of Egypt and Cleopatra all making their marks on history at the same time as the Roman Empire was flourishing and establishing democracy in the world -simultaneously.

[@murkrow2316]

Sharing is nice 😊

[@timlist1178]

Hot take. I am an amateur historian, Dr. Aldrete is a professional obviously. But this is just a garbage telling of the general events. Leaves out all the nuance while stating certain things as facts which are either not or very hotly debated.

[@John11769]

Yup, institutional bias be like

[@thezeroconditional2287]

If you’re interested in this period of history but find historical works hard to read, I highly recommend the Cicero trilogy by Robert Harris. A fictionalised account from the perspective of Cicero’s famous slave, a real life character credited with inventing shorthand note taking. A gripping and excellent series of novels from beginning to end.

[@jabronisauce6833]

Sulla was a character lol The people weren’t against Caesar, the senate etc where who where no less corrupt and Caesars men wanted revenge so it’s easy to understand why they followed Octavian who also fulfilled Caesars promises.

[@jimcagney6696]

I want to dress in fancy clothes. I want to be surrounded by gold everything. Sounds like Mayor Adams.

[@grimmertwin2148]

And Trump Shits on gold dunny thinking he doesn't stink

[@johnnymematik8649]

There's a lot of practical causation left out.

[@SpecialAgent666]

Leading into the 10th minute, the rulership of Rome could also have fell into the hands of his Egyptian 👋 son with Cleopatra, Caesarion and Octavius eventually went there and met him.

[@wabbit6653]

Gladiator 2 movie kinda shows this with Denzel Washington character

[@Okofk]

Idk the idea that it is illogical for 12 legions to follow the adopted son of Caesar is weird especially since it feels like he undersells how immensely popular Caesar was

[@Mr16bit]

The first 4 minutes defines the entire modern western world.

[@clon1122]

5 days old unlisted huh?

[@joeyfung-i]

Lex is hoping 🤞

[@ckdub1888]

The army’s loyalty should lie with the people, not the state!

[@Shepo666]

Exactly what he said

[@hgt2008]

Lex should interview Nick Fuentes

[@Mr50403]

Fuentes don't like Jewish people.

[@Mr.PepeSilvia]

I'm surprised he didn't mention that Caesar was the great nephew of Marius

[@jackncokeryan]

We are pretty close to this. A lot of institutions are being undermined, or attempting to be undermined.

[@i_dont_live_here]

This sounds really really (2024) familiar.

[@richieb74]

I want to know more about the actual fall of society. I’ve read multiple times how the culture was rotting from the inside out. Like out of apathy. They stopped caring about that made them powerful and their own institutions and rules of society. It makes sense to me because if people didn’t get a fair shake and the rich just took all their labor to make Rome great then these people would stop adhering to the cultures rules. Kinda like what’s happening in America today

[@kristijangrgic9841]

Key change was proffesional army payed by their commanders and loyal to their commanders essentisly private military. Ceasers conquest of Gaull was essentialy private operation

[@dorisreibel1340]

History is continually repeating itself

[@nikitakucherov5028]

I know the subject is in his wheelhouse but this dude is wicked smart

[@nolandemartino5420]

How often do you think about the Roman Empire?

[@TMTSYSTEMSATL]

So cool

[@reidsimonson]

A lot of people say this “not sharing” which is a prelude to them saying something about social is better. It’s not because socialism is not sharing but taking by force and giving to those you feel deserve it; so really not any better. Only way to even it out is a free market. Let the market and people decide where to pit money and value.

[@akavario]

I guess we just do Rome over and over until the end of time

[@Bruce22027]

These internal dynamics manifest itself in any large, influential nation, to various degrees. It’s not unique to Rome or any other particular nation.

[@beneatspizza2380]

There’s a famous book that says - man cannot lead man

[@T.R.75]

enormous success, boiling pot of resentment. sounds familiar. all empires fall.

[@ninap9216]

Как интересно рассказывает

[@adamprice9209]

It sounds like Octavian is the bassis of what we think as President.

[@tomgooch1422]

Astute observation that the civil wars started AFTER the Romans had conquered their last Mediterranean rivals, Carthage and Greece in the 140s B.C..

[@fireinthestone]

Someone could write a script about Putin's demise, all these PMC's operated by Russian Oligarchy, How smart is Xai again?

[@grimmertwin2148]

Trump loves them

[@pallasathena1555]

What about the part where Palpatine manipulates the Jedi into fighting a war of which he’s controlling both sides and seizes power from underneath their nose in a tactical military coup … oh wait…

[@seanmoylan1116]

Julius Caesar was a brilliant man, he's not getting the admiration he deserves here.

[@inthedarkwoods2022]

Was he really?... Go read more

[@col06007]

Wow, sounds exactly like the same problems that we are facing now in the west.

[@Neek3]

Sound familiar?🇺🇸

[@boribonez9874]

Octavian is literally emperor palpatine

[@tjrr1999]

Sounds like what it’s like living and working in the UK Everyone’s pissed off and feels like they’ve got a raw deal.

[@pnisflytrap1]

Is he a roman empire historian or a telling us the future of the United States?

[@Khramps]

Lmao exactly how it sounds right now

[@michaelhenault1444]

Deng was head of the Chinese military committee and gave up all the titles.

[@JerryC25]

Sounds familiar

[@D_really_T]

🤔 sounds familiar

[@saw6436]

Sounds familiar.

[@Nikola76]

So civil war is inevitable

[@xSkwintz]

Thanks to the two party system and sheeple fanatics, yes

[@dlabrooknaum7316]

Is he talking about Rome or Washington dc

[@peterharrell7305]

Boy that sounds familiar...

[@koloradokilla1]

Soulds like what the US is on the path to become

[@stevenPounder-p4b]

Calm down little girl.

[@TheBriansle]

JD Vance = Augustus Octavian

[@huskaroar6869]

This video was brought to you by the Guild of millers ! The millers uses only the finest grain ! True Roman bread for true romans !

[@SaintsOfKorea]

So is this where Star Wars get there inspiration from? Along with dune…

[@romymccray7006]

We will all suffer in the name ambition of the mad men/women in political power today. Wild seeing history play out before my very eyes.

[@197mmCannon]

The way he describes Caesar sounds so much like Trump

[@JonSmith-oq1vi]

All empires fall like what's happening in America 😮

[@jessielaird5171]

Why does the story of Caesar seem so obvious right now.....?

[@harrod19]

Holy Lord, this is EXACTLY like the United States today!

[@Julius123456789]

I want to debate this guy so bad.

[@steven9163]

This sounds familiar.

[@adonisendymion2480]

Then came Augustus and the rest of the Twelve Caesars down to Domitian.

[@hamburgler227]

Wow, what does this sound like??

[@jflack6]

Sounds familiar, huh?

[@inthedarkwoods2022]

Comment thread is full of 50 year old men arguing