Why Are Controller Buttons Like That?

[@Lextorias]

Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/hellofresh_lextorias, use my code LEXTORIAS16FM, and receive 16 free meals + free dessert for life while subscription is active.

[@TehJakpoolz]

Fantastic to see you getting HF as a sponsor, sad as a UK peep we can't get the deal, but go you dude!

[@Great-Documentaries]

Sponsored bullshit = no sub, no watch shitty video. Hello Fresh doesn't even have a legit website, and you expect us to eat food from them? face-purple-crying

[@RyuuTenno]

To explain the order of letters/numbers on the buttons: - Japanese based companies read right to left - American based companies read left to right so: - Nintendo: A is outside, B is inside (Jap) - Sega: A is inside B is outside (US) - Xbox: A is inside B is outside (US) - Sony: A is outside B is inside (Jap) And yes, PlayStation's system is built on Nintendo's with each of the shapes showing how many lines are used to draw them - Circle: 1 line (A) - Cross: 2 lines (B) - Triangle: 3 lines (X) - Square: 4 lines (Y) that's why switching over to PlayStation always seems so broken, cause we don't typically associate the order in which their buttons go. As a result all the Japanese made games use Circle as Accept and Cross as Back, but in the states, we use Cross as Accept, and Triangle as Back, cause even the US based companies had no friggin clue wtf was going on, lol. But once you realize what the shapes are corresponding to, it makes it significantly easier to work with and figure out most controls. edit: i thought i was considerably further through the video than I was initially writing this comment, lol

[@NotColaTai]

Dont care but get that bag

[@derek-64]

No

[@infinitevoid2964]

Tectoy is actually the manufacturer of Sega consoles in Brazil, and are a can of worms on their own. They are still making variants of the Master System to this day.

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

yeah, Tectoy can be seen basically as "SEGA of Brazil" as far as late 80's and 90's are concerned, they even developed exclusives for the brazillian market.

[@RadikAlice]

@@LucasCunhaRocha In terms of effort, I dare say they beat SEGA of America

[@JacintoVG]

Came here to say this

[@travisfabel8040]

Well now you have me wondering if I can get a brand new master system from Brazil.

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

@@travisfabel8040 I think they have a mini-version of it just like the SNES mini.

[@Wsxmoe]

I personally also think another reason A is right of B in the Nintendo controllers, is that they most likely played with their thumbs resting on the primary button without having to hover over the other button, which for the right hand makes more sense to be further to the right

[@ReinBelmont]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I guessed as well. A is closer, B is further

[@budthecyborg4575]

I don't object to the Nintendo layout but on modern controllers with a right analog stick underneath the face buttons now the A button is most accessible at the bottom.

[@rafaelluciano5596]

​@@budthecyborg4575 this is very much dependent on genre. With platformers and jrpgs (the primary space Nintendo operates in) A remains the most accessible button. Dual analog games tend to favor the shoulders, and then B/Cross.

[@budthecyborg4575]

@@rafaelluciano5596 It's actually not dependent on gameplay genre so much as the graphics rendering style. Modern platformers and JRPGs still have a player controlled camera, it's practically just retro games and retro inspired 2D games that don't use the second stick.

[@Wsxmoe]

@@budthecyborg4575 Yea at the time it made a lot of sense, but now over time it is only staying as part of both tradition and competitors having the alternative layouts

[@dabluflcn]

True story about the OG Xbox controller, we called the Cadillac in my circle, once after a Halo lan party I dropped a controller under my car and didn’t notice it. I drove over that controller and it still worked fine. Those things were tanks. You could use it like a flail and it would be considered a deadly weapon.

[@bolshebrik3660]

Yeah I grew up with the Xbox, and I consider a controller good only if it could potentially be used as a weapon if needed

[@TheNiteNinja19]

They most definitely don't make them like they used to. I've never even known the concept of stick drift until recently. I have an afterglow GameCube controller, from pelican, I use it a lot, sticks are still dead on like the day it came out of the box.

[@theothertonydutch]

I actually went to prison because I accidently dropped my og Xbox controller and murdered two of my friends with it and it really was't because I sucked at Halo.

[@dabluflcn]

@@theothertonydutch it’s funny you mention that because I heard the original Xbox controller once fell out a window of a tall building and bored the deepest man made hole in the world.

[@Synergy7Studios]

Xbox has made it so that I absolutely hate convex thumb sticks. I can't stand the PS controller because of it.

[@Scott...]

I like Nintendo’s modernisation of the start/select buttons just being plus and minus symbols. You associate them with pausing, starting, etc. but they’re also interchangeable like the rest of the buttons. The menu buttons on the other controllers feel too specific sometimes.

[@TazerXI]

And they have distinct names. On an Xbox controller, what am I meant to call 2 squares and 3 lines?

[@rawman44]

​@@TazerXIyeah I always call the buttons start and select/back, because I have no clue what else to call them in the case of xbox lol

[@windrider7361]

@@TazerXI Usually 2 Sqares is the map and three lines is menu su thats what i call them.

[@TazerXI]

@@windrider7361 The problem with that is not all games use 2 squares as a map. In something like Minecraft legacy console, they are both menus (iirc one for pause, and the other was host options)

[@jaxgen2006]

​@@TazerXI For some reason, the two square button is called "View."

[@KAC710]

Fun button story: I thought that GTA3 was glitched and unplayable because "honk" (required for a story mission) was set to some "R3" button that obviously didn't exist. Wasn't until a friend told me over a year later that the 3s are "hidden" unter the sticks.

[@h8GW]

Yeah, it's a damn shame they never found a way to label the function on the controller itself. Like you really need to label L and R if there are only a single set of shoulder buttons.

[@333dae]

The R3 L3 button stumped me as a kid, so many better ways they could've shown that instead of just showing a button labeled R3 on screen

[@XopheAdethri]

I read the manuals for games and the system... though I was also one of those who was following it's development as hardcore as I could with the young internet. I probably saw R3 explained a bunch of times. That most likely had it well pummelled into my head as a feature by the time it was out. So I slightly cheated?

[@CheekieCharlie]

And they never told anyone the button EVEN CLICKED

[@SorenSims47]

IIRC I just angrily mashed buttons until the "honk" happened.

[@etank222]

7:30 Sega was primarily an arcade game developer, the Genesis/Mega Drive controller having 3 buttons was much less a reaction to what Nintendo was doing than it was an attempt to bring the arcade experience home by basing their controller layout off the then widely adopted JAMMA standard being used in arcades for several years up to that point, which specified each player be given 4 directional inputs, 3 action buttons (numbered 1, 2, and 3 from left to right), and a start button.

[@Lextorias]

The arcade layout was what they ended up going with, but still very much in response to Nintendo. JAMMA only became the de-facto standard in 1990, after the Mega Drive's release. The standard being invented in 1985 would've only been right before development started at Sega. And there are interviews with Hideki Sato saying their only design goal was to make something that would beat the Famicom

[@jackofallgamesTV]

Actually, the arcade version of Quartet had for each player a joystick in the back and 2 side by side buttons in front of it, making it Sega's take on ambidextrous layout with less real estate than the "Midway Mirror" took. Sega was originally an American company, owned by Paramount before the crash. The reason why all Sega systems failed except the Saturn within Japan, because the Japanese saw them as "immigrant from America", and it took the American team, who witnessed the original console wars, and said "Ppptt! Amateurs.". (Second generation Console wars were all about "provable facts". Sega just added 90s attitude and marketing to it. Sega USA was not a big fan of JAMMA, as they went with the Atari / Midway model of non- standardized cabinets and special controls for each machine. Space Harrier had a flight stick and a tilting stage. Their driving games were all in special cabinets like the tilting Power Drift.

[@AdmiralBison]

'Select' and 'Start' may eventually become a mystery to the next generation, as the "floppy disc" symbol for saving is for current generations. Everything else meanings can simply be lost to time.

[@digitalgh0stt]

Honestly, I've seen more people complain about kids not knowing what the floppy disk icon is than actual kids not knowing what the floppy disc icon is.

[@RaineWilder]

Exactly, people are born with some inherent knowledge and knowing what floppies were is part of the firmware in everyone these days. Our generation is just upset as we want it to be “our” thing and it’s just everyone’s thing.

[@TrexelCat]

@@digitalgh0stt I don't think it's a case of not knowing what that icon means. More a case of not knowing the origin of that icon.

[@SunshineRey]

I doubt it can happen. With Nitnendo’s online emulator we are always reminder that “start” was like the plus and “select” was like the minus of modern consoles. Adding on the fact that the last console to use them was the 3DS and Wii U (which the latter just added a plus and minus on top of for modern games) and arcade machines still use them pretty frequently, they are likely not gonna fade into things for gen x-z to say “ back in my day” about in twenty years.

[@ReiReiFoxy]

*cries in konami code*

[@theenemy333]

The switch on the Saturn 3D pad doesn't actually turn off the dpad, it's just that when most games detect the analog turned on, they tend to just not map anything to the dpad, but there are games which make use of both the dpad and analog for different functions

[@supermaster2012]

ABXY makes sense for a mathematician or an old school programmer, they're the letters assigned to geometrical variables. AB for the sides of the figure, and XY for the vertices.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

X goes on the left because X is the horizontal plane, and Y the vertical plane goes on top.

[@jetkirby]

Came here to mention the connotation with math and algebra/geometry

[@TVAVStudios]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 The fact that this made obvious the decision to have the Saturn's extra action buttons be C and Z was just an added bonus, and I do love those extra face buttons. Wish Xbox hadn't ditched them after the XbOG, and I think that, even more than the Dreamcast layout, is the most obvious inspiration from Sega on that gamepad.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@TVAVStudios The original Xbox controller's extra face buttons were at an inconvenient angle. Having 6 face buttons is useful, but their orientation was wrong, I'd have tilted the arrangement 90 degrees clockwise... which now that I say it out loud, that's the orientation of the Saturn's controller face buttons isn't it?

[@TVAVStudios]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Exactly! I realize that adding dual analogue sticks to a Saturn pad layout maybe needs a bit more work to stop it getting too wide/cluttered vs the PS1 (not got the RetroBit Ssturn Analogue pad yet to see how it feels) but they picked the worst of both worlds w/that design!

[@blad...]

13:20 Racing games. Specifically, Gran Turismo. Pressure sensitive acceleration and brakes were insane to have at the time. So much that when my brother and I got Gran Turismo on a console that didn't have pressure sensitive face buttons we were shocked that the controller no longer had these features and bummed that we were forced to use the trigger buttons. I have since come around to triggers for accel/brake. Along with motion steering. It's actually great on PS5.

[@keyaamabrahams7984]

It also worked really well in God of War. I find it irritating in ps2 emulator that you can only do long range slow attacks.

[@CW-rh4jz]

Let’s not forget in Metal Gear Solid 2, you pressed square to raise your weapon and released it to shoot. I was blown away by this as a kid. Ahhhhh the good old days.

[@ARCSYS4049]

The original Playstation controller (before release) was a Super Famicom controller. Not a clone or copy or something similar, an actual Nintendo branded SNES controller. No debate or argument to be had. The SNES controller IS the basis on which all modern controllers are designed, itself being iterative advancement over what had come before it.

[@gamesandplanes3984]

Nah. Sega created what modern analog sticks and triggers (not shoulder buttons) are.

[@trstmeimadctr]

What's kind of fascinating is that controller design starting off wild and then them all ending up basically the same is something that is well known, documented and named in biology. It is called convergent evolution. The idea is that for a specific task, there really is just one, optimal way to do it that, no matter where you start from, you will always converge towards so long as your goal is to improve

[@fernandomunoz2737]

And that is precisely the food for the religious people that think that the evolution is something like a scam... hahahaha. Cause they keep asking, "Well, where are the developments in-between?". Just like the mechanical designs, those designs that were no successful are simply forgotten. Well noted!!

[@who7022]

Dualshock = Crab (Props if you get this)

[@poopyfarts6848]

​@@who7022 it never changes

[@KaityKat117]

@@who7022 everything is become crabs 🦀 🦀

[@HappyMan0203]

Even VR controllers are doing that as well. In the mid-2010s you had things like the Razer Hydra and the Vive wands, and the big focus was on touchpads. But then Oculus comes out with their Touch controllers, ditching a touchpad for just sticks, face buttons, and a grip button. And now every VR controller is basically just a Touch controller; even the Index controller is basically a big Touch controller with more grip area. And they even have preserved the ABXY buttons, so it all comes full circle.

[@alixtron4000]

I always had a theory about the PlayStation symbols, that they were maybe based on the amount of lines they took to draw them E.g. Circle = 1 line, Cross = 2 lines, Triangle = 3 lines and Square = 4. Probably not to be honest, but I just enjoy thinking that and you can’t stop me.

[@XPimKossibleX]

woah, and in famicom order no less

[@justinbremer2281]

I'll make it my headcannon

[@gardian06_85]

I regret to inform that the internal codes for PlayStation are: Square = joystick button 0 X = joystick button 1 Circle = joystick button 2 Triangle = joystick button 3 (programmers start counting at 0 instead of 1)

[@XPimKossibleX]

@@gardian06_85 that'll just have to do with the structure of the traces or something won't it? where did those numbers come frommmmm

[@gardian06_85]

@@XPimKossibleX these are the values the programmer checks against when an input has been registered. effectively if you treat the PS controller as a generic USB Joystick, and get an input event "if (ButtonDown == Joystick_Button_1)" then the user has pressed the "X" button and if you are not using some driver, or JoyToKey but got your PC to recognize the PS controller as a USB Joystick if you were told to press "1" then you would use the X button The Play station itself is set to auto register these codes to the consoles "Runes"

[@honilock577]

And like I said a couple months ago, Lex has entered the "you didn't know you needed this" space and is rocking it I'm so glad I found this channel

[@IanZainea1990]

23:20 could also be they felt the natural resting place for the right hand was over the A button. And reaching for the B button would make it the secondary button. So it's in order, but just starting with what is closest to your right hand and then going further away

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

That could be true if they assumed the natural way to hold the controller was with cupped hands instead of gripping the sides. If they expected the controller to be gripped by the sides, they'd have to be quite unaware of how hands work to think that.

[@AndrielChaoti]

fun fact: the weird glyphs on the xbox controller are "view" and "menu", and the third wide button is indeed just a share button.

[@Lextorias]

no its two boxes and a hamburger

[@no.7893]

@@Lextorias no silly those are the bags the hamburger and fries come in!!!

[@carlosemilio5180]

​@@no.7893burgers and fries can also be in boxes. Never been to mcdonkies, where they put ghost in the burger?

[@johnnybensonitis7853]

I actually heard it's a secret language used to summon Cthulhu.

[@diamondhunter7826]

Really? I always just called them two boxes and three lines 😂

[@codysmith1534]

I always assumed that And B were representations of words instead of letters "accept and back" "Action and Block" "Accelerator and Brake"

[@sam_bibly]

weird

[@boziewz6125]

No, it's because Asians write from right to left meaning it was in alphabetical order in Asian countries. It's only in Latin based languages where we write left to right.

[@I922sParkCir]

@@boziewz6125 That's not true at all! Cyrillic, Greek and a bunch Southeast Asian languages like Hindi and Punjabi are left to right.

[@boziewz6125]

@@I922sParkCir Greek does not surprise me, but hindi and punjab do, the more you know.

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

​​@@boziewz6125you obviously didn't finish the video because he already addressed this, also lumping all Asian languages together like that is just silly and doesn't account for all of the specific and complex histories of those cultures, you should've just said Japanese

[@Furluge]

7:34 - That third button on the Genesis, and no select, is probably due to Sega's more arcade game focused roots. the JAMMA (Japan Amusement Machine and Marketing Association) standard for arcade cabinet interfaces supports 3 buttons for each player. A lot of what was on the System 16 arcade board made it into the Mega Drive / Genesis.

[@epicon6]

100% correct

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

The select button was essentially added when they went to 6 buttons in the form of the mode button that allowed telling certain games that there was a 6 button controller rather than the original 3 button controllers that were in the original designs. It would have been a mild annoyance to have a start, select and mode button, although it could have been Start, Mode and Select a kind of neat nod to the SMS.

[@eric31shaggs]

It's funny because I don't remember playing a Genesis game where all three buttons did different things. Sonic for instance all three buttons was jump.

[@KainDrake]

​@eric31shaggs that's odd because there were a lot of games that used all three buttons for different things. Streets of Rage for example used A for special, B to attack, and C to jump. Light Crusader too, though I dint remember which did what. I just remember there's a button to attack, one to jump, and one for magic.

[@perphenanolastnamethopls3610]

I Am Error was actually written by my professor at UCSC, Nathan Altice. Cool guy. He likes to skateboard. There's a lot of translation and localization issues in early Nintendo sales in the US. Fascinating research space.

[@droiduseruserdroid1731]

The Dreamcast DID sell well (8+ million in little over a year). The problem was that Sega was already insolvent when it was released and it did not sell well enough to save the company. Nor was it intended to save the company. It was the "swan song" and intended to improve their brand enough that they could sell their IP and keep their shirts. Which they did, to American Sammy.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

It's a great system, I have one sitting by me, as well as most of the other systems from the '80s until the '90s. It's just a shame there were so many stupid decisions made by the company leadership. I still die a little inside any time I see Sonic in a Nintendo first party game.

[@epicon6]

Great point. Also to me personally, and for most people who got the system it was the most succesfull console because it’s so amazing

[@CrocoDylianVT]

in the PS2 not only were the face buttons pressure sensitive, but also the dpad and triggers, every button except select, start, analog and the stick clicks are pressure sensitive also a fun fact about the Saturn and Dreamcast, they were the first ever consoles to use hall effect joysticks, yep, hall effect, the feature that is so praised and looked for nowadays already was on those consoles almost 30 years ago, that means those controllers haven't gotten drift and never will

[@cdreamworld]

Yes, I remember me and my friends getting sore thumbs from pressing down hard on the buttons for gran turismo thinking it'll make the car go faster lol.

[@bland9876]

I have an adapter to use PlayStation controllers on PC and one of the switches on it Good luck figuring out which one and in which combination because there's like seven of them no joke It swaps the d-pad and the joystick around and so it was very weird pressing the d-pad and seeing your character move a tiny bit and then pressing it harder and your character moving faster blew my freaking mind.

[@navsingh9406]

all the shoulder buttons are digital on the ps2 controller, not analogue.

[@bland9876]

@@navsingh9406 they have the ability to sense how hard you are pressing them that makes them analog just like the triggers on an Xbox controller.

[@navsingh9406]

nope, analogue triggers started with ps3. R1/R2 and L1/L2 have always been digital prior to that.@@bland9876

[@dooshmasta]

@5:55 “Leave Luck to Heaven” is a dubious translation. The name 任天堂 has the characters 任 to take responsibility or to entrust responsibility to someone, the kunyomi of which is “makaseru” which if you’re a sushi connoisseur you’d probably know the term お任せ“omakase” which means you’re leaving the choices of your dinner to the chef’s recommendations. 天 is heaven, but can also be a synonym for genius 天才. 堂 is a hall or chamber of sorts, a big room, usually dedicated to a singular activity for an institution. 天堂 together means the halls of heaven / heaven’s domain or paradise. None of these characters mean luck. The name itself doesn’t exactly have a clear meaning, but it seems to suggest to me that the company is asking you to entrust them with your idea of paradise. Like if you buy their products they promise to sweep you off your feet and take you to heaven.

[@dooshmasta]

One more thing, the reason they use the more complex 天堂 instead of the common 天国 both meaning heaven, is that the character 堂 is used at the end of company names to establish a sense of legitimacy and trustworthiness. It’s an institution and a household name sort of like adding the word “Authority” at the end of “Chicago Transit Authority”. Hope that helps.

[@bitwize]

The "ten" in Nintendo can also be short for "tengu", a bird-like yokai from Japanese folklore known for its long nose. It's worth noting that Nintendo was originally a manufacturer of hanafuda cards, hanafuda being a card game which, along with most other forms of gambling, was illegal in the Tokugawa Shogunate. Because "hana" meant both "flower" and "nose", people would put their finger on or aside their noses as a form of code to ask, or indicate, where hanafuda might be played; soon "tengu" also became a code word for hanafuda because of the creatures' long noses. (Nintendo even made a hanafuda deck with a tengu pictured on the back, perhaps in honor of this practice.) After the fall of the shogunate, Emperor Meiji quickly made hanafuda legal again; Nintendo was formed by the Yamauchi family around this time to fill the demand for the cards necessary to play the game. Hence "Nintendo" might be read as "officially sanctioned tengu (hanafuda) organization", reflecting its status as the first legal manufacturer and distributor of hanafuda cards. Their status was a bit like that of the first dispensary to open up after your state legalized weed.

[@dooshmasta]

@@bitwize The Tengu were Rabbis in Japan. This rabbit hole goes real deep.

[@iokwong1871]

@@dooshmasta LOL

[@SonofSethoitae]

​@@bitwizeTo be fair, the "ten" in "Tengu" still means heaven. The word means "heavenly dog"

[@derFischy]

23:15 minor correction: japanese is read from left to right when written *horizontally*. modern japanese still uses vertical writing in some contexts (books and manga, for example) and that is read from right to left. the buttons are horizontal anyway, so your argument here still makes more sense

[@Lextorias]

You’re right. Tategaki is top-to-bottom, then right-to-left. Modern yokogaki is left-to-right, then top-to-bottom, like English Tategaki being widely in use for things like manga is why people still believe it is the only direction Japanese is written. Though anything on a computer or sign or more modern device is typically yokogaki

[@TheMannedMan]

I love the recent up surge of various Video Essays which cover obscure thoughts, and it’s crazy that you’re channel practically doubled over the last 9 months. Keep up the good work

[@jacobdensmore5818]

The reason the buttons on the Nintendo controllers are labeled B A from left to right is because when holding the controller your right thumb moves right to left, meaning the confirm button aka the A button needs to be placed the furthest right, it’s what they call ergonomics in engineering the easiest layout for the user to interface with.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

I suppose, although there's no inherent reason for A to be the confirm button. The B could just as easily be to confirm it. I think that may have been a factor, but I think it's far more likely that it's just the result of them driving on the left hand side of the street and writing in a language that goes from right to left as part of the ordering. Which leads to a lack of bias in favor of the more Western ordering of the letters. Sega does it in reverse and that's most likely because the Master System used numbers and put the 1 on the left and 2 on the right, which become A and B with a C button added at that time. Which likely had to do with the fact that when you see the alphabet, it's A, B, C not C, B, A in any language I can think of that uses that alphabet.

[@mademedothis424]

This is reinforced, weirdly, by a mistake in the video. On the Genesis/Mega Drive "C" was often the accept button in menus, for that reason. Which seems weird, because you end up with the primary button not being the one with the first letter/number. The Mega Drive labels end up being a bit counterintuitive for that reason, because the way games used the three button layout ended up wanting your thumb ont he B button so you could use A and C faster or as modifiers. The other thing this video misses on that is that the SNES layout is not from the vanilla NES controller, it's from the Bone variant, which had the A and B buttons at an angle. The SNES doubles that up and goes X Y in the same order. I get how they ended up there, PC controllers that used 1-4 or A-D are hard to remember at a glance, but it's always tripped me up. X and Y on Xbox layouts make sense: X for horizontal, like the X axis, Y for vertical, like the Y axis. Nintendo even hints that this is what they were thinking by calling the triggers "Z"... but their right to left convention ends up reversing that for the face buttons. I guess the real answer is that all of the glyphs are a mess built on legacy choices and ultimately all that matters is you can remember what to press when you see a prompt.

[@TheKrzysiek]

Funny thing about the PlayStation X and O thing: Some games, like Gran Turismo 4, had both X and O as confirm, and the other two as back.

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

I remember that SoulCalibur III was one of these, though it's been a while since I played.

[@lumer2b]

This goes back even to Gran Turismo 1, both Japanese and Western releases!

[@AltCutTV]

Think I even seen a game using the triangle for confirm. Which makes no less sense I suppose.

[@quas3728]

yeah in the jp, O is confirm and X is deny. GTA 5's jp ver used that control

[@KirikkSiSq]

@@quas3728 I remember PC ports of some noname Vita games that mixed up A and B. Was pretty hard to reconfigure, until I realised they support mouse.

[@eltoons]

Actually, I was reliving some memories of playing Need for Speed Underground 2 on the PS2 the other day, and my modern brain was thinking that the circle button would take me back, but the triangle button was actually the button to go back. It's also now really annoying to think about how cross, which clearly and universally means "no," is now the default confirm/yes button on all games, and circle was just awkwardly ditched with the responsibility of being the back button. Even body language like "crossing" your arms is seen as defensive, not letting someone in, or unwelcoming, which would imply "no," but apparently cross is the yes button. Or like "being crossed," which is upset, which is a bad thing, which is negative, meaning no. It's just kind of unsatisfying and is one thing that you can't unsee anymore. A circle clearly makes sense as the yes button, but even now, with all of the conditioning I've gone through, it'd be weird for a circle to be the yes button. fun to think about though..

[@XPimKossibleX]

i think it's because red is no in western, blue is good? something like that. x is also a cursor type thing that marks the spot

[@Tokru86]

Look at it like a multiple choice test. X marks your answer and the circle beeing blank means "no" to that specific choice. I never once felt that the buttons didn't make sense. X marks the spot, X represents your choice etc. X DEFINITELY not universally means "no".

[@demetriam2408]

X means yes. That's how you select things. O is a weird symbol in general.

[@Killer1984able]

This reminded me, most of PS2 games (at least the ones I played) use triangle as a back button

[@PCIexplorer]

The way I see it is, the "X" is like an impact, like when you thrust something in. And "O" is like the lack of an impact, more like a "voiding" of sorts. I can't see many other ways for it to make sense in my head.

[@Ruinah]

26:24 - So, funny story... I kickstarted that coffee table book and have a physical copy in my storage....

[@garrettnino5137]

The video said that there weren't any physical or digital copies available. How would you feel about making the book you have available for free online?

[@Ruinah]

@@garrettnino5137 I just need to get it out of storage and figure out a way to scan of it. It's pretty hefty and I don't have a good scanning setup.

[@Taima]

You should be the absolute hero the world needs and share that with everyone publicly in some fashion (and if you do, it'd be dope if someone replies to me to let me know)

[@lollygagger1]

Sounds like it's internet archiving time

[@JeffTheBagel]

sure buddy

[@R3_dacted0]

I think Nintendo nailed it with the center buttons when they made them + and -. These make intuitive sense in many applications and aren't forgetably arbitrary like Start, Select, View, Menu, Share, etc. (Granted, Nintendo also has a Screenshot and Share button, but I like to forget about those) Also, I'm firmly in the camp of offset joysticks as they exist on the Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube and will die on this hill. Pushing is an easier, less straining action than pulling. The left stick is generally used for forward movement/throttle control, where pressing it forward is going to be the most common direction. Therefore it is placed above your thumb, making it easy to press it forward even in a resting position. Likewise, the right stick which is generally used for camera control and other lateral motion, is placed lower where the thumb's easiest resting positions are left and right. The Sony layout never made any sense to me because it makes you have to pull up (or drag, depending on your hand size) on the left stick to move, which can get uncomfortable after long sessions.

[@TheMasterOfTheFrets]

The GameCube controller layout made sense. The main button is A; the secondary is B; Y is on the y-axis; X is on the x-axis; L and R are left and right.

[@JavierRuizGarcia]

and Z because.... we had Z in the N64. Well you could still argue it's on a 3rd axis in relation to X and Y.

[@matclue4]

Ive never thought of nintendo having it backwards. I thought the A was on the outside because it was closer to where the hand and that presses it is. Like work your way in from the where the hand that uses it holds it

[@BinglesP]

Your profile picture is an M&M

[@matclue4]

@@BinglesP haha that's awesome! I never saw that either

[@NoahNCopeland]

yup

[@OldDemonTooth]

Japanese also reads from right to left.

[@ShouPow]

It's interesting to me how Sony changes the button layout based on locale, basically swapping the function of the X and O for Japan vs NA. So in Japan, Nintendo and Sony have the same layout for the accept/reject buttons (A&O/B&X) and in NA Microsoft and Sony have the similar layout (A&X/ B&O). Despite being American I kinda wish most companies just followed the Nintendo layouts, so I wouldn't fuck up for the first few days of playing an Xbox game lol. Also I guess Nintendo being the surviving gaming company OG.

[@pyroxene4768]

"X is clearly no to me" THANK YOU! I've seen so many people make this strange argument about how they changed it because x is supposedly confirm in the west, which is backed up by exactly nothing, lol. Also I love the Metro Exodus background near the end.

[@gergelygalvacsy2251]

I guess one could argue that you tick checkboxes with an X (if not with a checkmark) so in that context it signals affirmation. If I’m thinking with my childhood mind tho, it made sense to me that X is the most iconic symbol you use most often, with the circle being its opposite, while the triangle and square are background characters that aren’t as important.

[@NoahNCopeland]

You put X in boxes to fill out forms. So not exactly nothing. I'd agree X is still mostly associated with "no" though

[@dumonu]

I think the biggest problem for me is that both X and O look like "incorrect" to me. Growing up, it was common for incorrect answers to be marked either with an X or to be circled. Correct answers would either be unmarked or have a checkmark. It's kind of funny. Whenever I've seen a Japanese exam in an anime or manga or whatever, it's often covered in circles, and my first impulse is that the examinee did terribly.

[@beatrix1120]

I'm surprised nobody brought up how X is blue & O is red. Red=no always seemed intuitive to me

[@pyroxene4768]

@@NoahNCopeland I mean true. I guess I should say it's not backed up by statistics, lol (i.e. it's way more commonly used as a negative).

[@thematt6705]

One neat detail you didn't mention about the PS1 controller: Nintendo actually owns the patent on the cross-shaped d-pad design, which is why it has an X in the middle to make it four separate five-sided buttons. Also, the Dualshock 2 didn't have analog triggers, that was the Dualshock 3. DS 2's L2 and R2 buttons still worked just like L1 and R1.

[@SnakebitSTI]

The patent is expired now, thankfully.

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

Also why the Genesis and Saturn controllers had that distinctive shield kind of design, and why for so many years other consoles went with alternative d-pad designs with varying results.

[@KirikkSiSq]

@@LonelySpaceDetective yeah, the patent expired last decade so starting with Xbox One the D-pad is just a cross once again

[@WesM369]

Dualshock2 L1 L2 R1 R2 were all pressure sensitive, they we just shaped like rectangles and not 'triggers'

[@taliyeth]

Yeah as someone else commented, almost the entire Dualshock 2 controller is pressure sensitive/analog.

[@vladyvhv9579]

The thing about X as "Yes" and O as "No" makes sense, but you have to look at how paperwork and signs work. X is commonly used as an alternative to checkmarks for forms that require you to make a selection from an number of boxes. You cross out the boxes with an X, to indicate that you agree with what's stated next to the box. International "No" symbol is a red circle with a slash. Additionally, "Do Not Enter" road signs have the lettering as white on red circle. Thus, red circle = "No". Easier than X = "Yes".

[@faereman]

It was always the opposite logic in Japan, be it for paperwork, school grades and whatnot, which is why they use circle as the confirm button.

[@DarthMizaru]

​@@faereman in south america is also common for X to mean NO and a circle or checkmark to mean YES.

[@XopheAdethri]

'O' is often also 'off' so it would make sense for it to stop or cancel some action happening or about to happen... I still prefer Jp style.

[@cured_bacon647]

Nah, o has always been yes in japan. Stop reaching.

[@Taziod]

Wtf are you talking about people circle answers in multiple choice tests in the US all the time too. Oftentimes students will cross off incorrect answers and "circle the correct answer" This is fat cope there's no logic it's just whatever you wanna do. They probably changed it in Japan to X for select because it was the only region that did otherwise and normalizing everything else to Japan layout would have met with more hate.

[@justsomeannoyingredpanda]

I really, really love your videos that explore the beginnings and history of random ass things. You're easily one of my favorite content creators on YT.

[@mattcruz5266]

This vid seems like it would be useful someone making handhelds like the steam deck. Knowing why conventions exist makes braking them easier.

[@imjvn]

hair looks good man

[@danielhodgins8611]

I thought he was lookin a bit slimmer too. Good for him!

[@seryozha_evil]

@@danielhodgins8611 he mentioned the fast food being not so healthy in the ad!

[@LAK_770]

I was partial to the American History X haircut back in the day lol, but I love my boy no matter what his hair looks like

[@Chineseisntalanguageapparently]

What about his finger? Tell me what your opinion is on his hurt finger, I need to know

[@lssjgaming1599]

The Nintendo vs Xbox controllers are prolly the most frustrating tbh. Same letters but of course theyre all jumbled up. Same goes for Dreamcast as that has Xbox layout

[@kylespevak6781]

It's just A-B and X-Y flipped, not "all jumbled up"

[@azumashinobi1559]

To this day I struggle with any kind of quick time thing in Nintendo games or Mario party like mini games. Xbox layout is baked into my brain and I get confused when I have to swap them

[@MousaThe14]

@@azumashinobi1559same for me in the opposite direction. I have to alter settings on my PC games so that I can still comfortably use my Nintendo-derived controllers comfortably because the layout’s too baked into my brain. I know they’re only reversed but if I was “A” on screen it’s going to go where I instinctually “know” A is supposed to be.

[@mechadeka]

Doesn't Dreamcast have the Nintendo layout for X and Y?

[@budthecyborg4575]

I would argue this is why Nintendo should just permanently use the GameCube layout, and I love the giant A button.

[@Table_knife]

I like how each controller layout started so far apart yet all the companies slowly created the same controller like it’s Carcinisation

[@trianglemoebius]

Carcinization isn't actually a super-unique concept, it's part of a larger biological element called "convergent evolution". Basically if there's one 'best' way to do something, everything trying to do it will eventually evolve the features to do it that way, regardless of where they start or what different paths they take to get there. It's why most creatures have two eyes (and even those that don't have them split by halves), why so many creatures have tails, et cetera. Assuming the current controller layout is the best way to do it, it only makes sense that all the consoles - using sales as a sort of natural selection for products - would end up basically looking the same.

[@godowskygodowsky1155]

30:07 I can't help but find it interesting how even a simple thing *like button* layouts can really reflect the mindset of the people who made it. KZbin proceeds to highlight the like button because it detected the phrase "like button" near the end of the video.

[@MGsubbie]

28:35 I, in fact, thought that. Intuitively, X meant yes to me, circle meant no to me. Before I even used a controller, I figured it would work that way. This is my 12-year old self's logic : When taking a multiple-choice test where I had to tick boxes, I would always put a cross in the box, using blue ink. So a blue X meant "select this one" to me. On the other hand, in my country, many traffic signs have a red circle around them. That red circle is to indicate that things aren't allowed, such as entering a one-direction street from the other end. So a red circle meant "no" to me.

[@astra6640]

In my country, you put X when you're voting, and generally it's the preferred thing to put in a box on "choose answer" style tests, and while on exams you instead fill the square with black entirely, if you get it wrong you circle the wrong answer.

[@toadynamite8141]

Or perhaps it was the colors, sub consciously

[@jackrabbit1704]

Moment of silence for every controller lost over the decades due to skill issue

[@Kayulett]

My boi spitting facts

[@AdmiralBison]

To be fair, Nintendo games -NES period, many were infamously difficult so that may have contributed to it. Game design of course was still evolving back then and didn't have many of the "quality" of life conventions conventions today. - checkpoints - manual and automatic saves - generous hit boxes - "hurt and heal" etc.. Try playing some of those games in emulation with modern controllers today and we could begin to imagine the difficulty. Also apparently game devs had to make their games last longer, so they increased difficulty. Arcades were a different beast in difficulty as they were designed to be quick "quarter munchers"

[@Kayulett]

@@AdmiralBison gotta give it to admiral he does have a point.

[@vitaminwater9662]

yea breaking controllers out of anger is cool and awesome

[@emerson-biggons7078]

Steam Controller *cough* *cough*

[@Caelidx]

Why can’t all modern pc games come with the option to change the button UI. I use a ps5 controller and i dont need it to show playstation ui but for people like my gf, who doesnt use controller often, has a really hard time playing when the buttons dont match the controller. Its really annoying

[@PandaKnight-FightingDwagon]

A lot of popular games that don't allow this have mods you can download for it, though if youre not accustomed to using and setting up mods it's a real headache. Definitely should be industry standard though, PS controllers have been natively usable on Steam for a decade now

[@noodleman4555]

Most publishers just don't care and rely on Steam Input.

[@A_kh669]

Games on Epic games store show playstation face buttons actually, some games like tekken 8 and resident evil 4 do that as well

[@teneesh3376]

3 reasons. Xinput is widely used so devs assume everyone has a xbox controller. Devs can't be bothered programming the simple toggle to switch the prompt. The ones published by Microsoft aren't allowed to. Why would they support their competitors?

[@stewartdahamman]

Check our ReWASD - it provides a way to remap controller buttons on PC.

[@SeanNoonan]

You missed one avenue of controller exploration - Microsoft's SideWinder series of controllers (which was their spin on the Saturn controller) having ABC, XYZ, two shoulders and a start button. Further cementing the relationship between Sega and Microsoft designs (even before the Dreamcast)!

[@RhetticusRex]

It's difficult to describe how much I love this video essay; it's changed my world view. Because of it I discovered that the N64 is a perfect, incredibly optimum GBA controller: Select -> C-Left (secondary position), Start -> C-Down (primary position). Ergo, the hands can press every single button without ever moving from the home position. From here the goal is to reduce force as much as possible; the wing chun sticky hands. Similar to how a Victorinox makes the hand and the blade's handle become one. Based on your principle of action buttons designated as primary and secondary in relation to comfort, I believe that the Super Nintendo and beyond layout could have been corrected as: Primary Primary Action Button (A) GREEN - Bottom Primary Secondary Action Button (B) RED - Left Secondary Primary Action Button (X) BLUE - Top Secondary Secondary Action Button (Y) YELLOW - Right This layout should be the most efficient and intuitive when at the end of the day.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

You're describing the Xbox 360 controller.

[@RhetticusRex]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 close, but the Xbox 360 controller has (B) primary-secondary in the most uncomfortable position: Right. And also has (X) in the left position. I recently tried my design here based on this video essay in Smash Bros., at a friend's house, my friend. And aside from the muscle memory, it's MUCH more comfortable! I would love for you to try it!

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@RhetticusRex Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. The B button on an xbox controller is where the C-Down button would be on an N64 controller, compared to where the resting position for the thumb goes. You referenced that as a good position to serve as the center, so it makes less than zero sense to suggest the xbox's B button is in a bad spot.

[@RhetticusRex]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Sorry. I feel frustrated at how I have written it. I shall try my best. I sometimes use the Nintendo 64 controller when playing Game Boy and Game Boy Advance games. I use the Nintendo 64 controller's C-Down button for Start, and the C-Left Button for Select. Start and Select buttons should be large and as close to the home position as possible. In this case they ARE part of the home position. The C-Left and C-Down buttons are really tucked in there. The situation gets even more confusing with the GBA SP, as the SP is so cramped that the primary position of the A button is no longer the most comfortable position. The most comfortable position is also in relation to the button with the least amount of muscle tension required to press it.

[@RhetticusRex]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Oh God. Are you in fact saying to map the B BUTTON TO C-DOWN? This would indeed be more efficient because C-Down is really tucked in there. However, in this specific case of the Nintendo 64's geometric dimensioning, I worry if it could be too efficient for the actions Confirm/Accept and Negative/Back.

[@whatisfzeroanymore2nd]

something that was imho very oddly skipped over was that the sega genesis having that layout is also, simply put, some amount arcade holdover. most arcades had buttons in a line configuration just like that, and the neo-geo controller also had them laid out in a similar fashion (though the neo geo controller was meant for lap/table play). the 6 button controller also confirms this, even if it was made just for fighting games. regarding B/A, i think it's as simple as "right handed design philosophy". a lot of arcade games for a long time were in a similar sort of way? they'd have the movement buttons be on the right, and then they'd offer buttons on the left and right, and the left were usually reversed compared to standard arcade button layouts (1, jump, 2, attack, 3, auxiliary(aka, attack or "special")), so if you were right handed, the order would be 3, auxiliary, 2, attack, 1, jump.

[@ceedubs]

I had always assumed the PlayStation controller's design, ( cirlcle, cross, triangle, square) was because each shape is made with one extra line and going from right to left. circle = 1🔴 cross = 2❌ triangle = 3🔺 square = 4🟥

[@bitwize]

In Japanese culture circle means correct and cross means wrong. So the circle button was used to select and the cross was used to cancel. The other shapes were chosen because they are frequently used as generic markers. For example at Japanese train stations, you will be asked to line up at ○○, △△, or □□, depending on your train; when it arrives the doors of the train will line up exactly with the markers on the platform for efficient ingress. The use of these shapes as markers has spilled over into other Asian cultures, for example the ○, △, and □ masks on the guards in Squid Game.

[@iokwong1871]

That's also the case. Designers don't always tell everyone what they think because there are also counter arguments, they don't bother to get involved. Nothing is perfectly logical. But what works for most people, is good enough for a design.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Every time a person says there's a "cross" button on a playstation controller, my impression of their fanbase gets more and more negative. No rational person will ever call that a cross.

[@Punaparta]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Look up St. Andrew's cross.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@Punaparta I repeat: No. Rational. Person.

[@Celis.C]

09:09 I picked up my Switch around this point because I figured I'd shiny hunt some pokemon on the Switch while listening/watching this video and I noticed the layout of the buttons... A B X Y And I really never actually worried about it. Man's a genius.

[@PayterX]

A, B, X and Y were all chosen due to their universal understanding by programmers. One of those things which has always just been "done that way". For example, especially when programming a simple application or script, it is very common to use A and B as generic variables, I and J as variables to use within loops to count the number of loops, and X and Y for any additional generics. On top of that, the CPU in the NES was programmed in assembly, and 6502 assembly's ISA includes very few registers, but the ones that it does contain? A, B, X and Y

[@yasin_karaaslan]

Wrong

[@williamsanborn9195]

In my mind, A means “accept” and B means “back.” That’s why I’m in the camp of “Nintendo’s competitors have their controller buttons backwards, not Nintendo themselves.” That and I grew up with Nintendo, so everything else is confusing for me. 😅

[@ChozoFS]

It is important to note that the '83 video game crash was mostly a north american thing, not very strongly affecting the computer-dominated market around europe, but great video nonetheless!

[@duckpotat9818]

wb Japan

[@cookieface80]

@@duckpotat9818The Famicom released in 1983 (in Japan), so there was no game crash in Japan either.

[@Lextorias]

The crash happened in the US, but the US market was so big that it definitely did impact the global industry. Nintendo’s sales were at an all-time low in 83, and other companies did stop focusing on consoles to make PCs or arcade machines outside of the US

[@RevRaptor898]

@@LextoriasTrue, but it is worth noting that Europe was dominated by micro pc's and barely felt the game crash as consoles were far less popular there at the time.

[@Lextorias]

@@RevRaptor898 I didn’t really talk about Europe. I brought up American and Japanese companies being affected, because they were. I reference books that explain that

[@joemck85]

This is the story I'd read about the backward A/B Famicom buttons. I recall reading it in some book about Nintendo's history, though it was long enough ago that I don't remember the title. The thinking was that a game should be discoverable by a new player with no past gaming experience. Using Mario as an example, the D-pad moves Mario in that direction, and the first button from the edge of the controller -- the first one your finger will find -- does the primary action in the game: jumping, and is all you'll need to get by at first.

[@Lextorias]

if you can provide a source for this I’ll believe you

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Yes, although that doesn't explain the labeling. The could just as easily have made B the button for jumping.

[@jptrrs]

There's something else to be said about the layout of the Mega Drive (Genesis) 3-button controller: it allows the player to change his right-hand position, placing it over the controller with one finger on each button. This is just like the usual position on an arcade machine, where there's no need to hold a controller, you just rest your hand on the table. This allows for a much faster response time between each command when compared to the thumb having to travel between buttons on the NES scheme. I always assumed that layout was due to SEGA's arcade roots. And it's the only way I can play Road Rash, having to accelerate, break and punch all at the same time! My thumb just isn't fast enough...

[@wolfgangvs]

An alternate universe with "AVCD" face buttons layout would be nice, I think. It's just an idea I had a few years ago, that would make it easier to mentally map each button to its position. Reason being that those 4 letters look similar to arrows: A=up, V=down, C=left, D=right. Sure, C and D less so, but you could stylize them to look closer to arrows. Face button use on menus and confirmation screens would be easier. Quick time events would be easier. Also, I think I heard there were games where the face buttons were used as a dpad? Maybe on the SNES? Btw, I enjoyed the info in the video. Long research time well spent.

[@Sly88Frye]

This is a video gaming subject that I didn't realize I really wanted so bad. I mean learning about controller Origins and why the buttons except the way they are and how everything is like it is is something that is extremely interesting. You see I think the NES could be the most important video game console ever made because it saved the video game industry but I wouldn't consider it Nintendo's most impactful console because of the fact that the SNES has a controller that's been copied for decades.

[@Petch85]

That's confounding me is why controllers only come in one size? Why can't you get a PS5 controller is small, medium and large? Peoples hands are clearly not the same size, and how hard can it be to have 2 or 3 sizes, they sell milions of controllers.

[@azmah1999]

Probably because a controller comes bundled with each console. You would then need small, medium and large consoles. A massive headache

[@hsemicolonc413]

Well- Because the regular size of all the controllers is nigh universal? How tall do you need to be for an Xbox controller to be too small to use comfortably? There aren't millions of Shaquille O'Neals out there to produce a resized version of a now (needlessly) complex internal design for.

[@Petch85]

@@azmah1999 The already sell them in digital, slim, FC24, CoD, Horizon, God of War versions. But still if they sold them without or with one default size then you could just buy the controller in the size you preferred separately.

[@kricku]

Because Xbox got dunked on when they did

[@baronvonkrogglesteiniii5310]

alas, poor duke. The only controller that was the right size.

[@pollyfsuzie]

The genesis also had a 6 button control prior to the Saturn's release

[@D3Vlicious]

The thing about Street Fighter is that it was based on the JAMMA (Japanese Arcade Machine Manufacturers Association) standard, which allowed for 4 input buttons, extensible to 6. So JAMMA settling on this had as much influence on the adoption of 4 to 6 button controllers as Street Fighter.

[@jackofallgamesTV]

That proves my theory that one aspect in SF2 's development was to be a "Beeshu killer", add more buttons to make the ambexterizing strategy of mirroring buttons be financial suicide.

[@coolbrotherf127]

As a kid, I played on a lot of different consoles. My older cousins and older siblings of my friends all had older consoles like the SNES, Genesis, N64, and PS1, while my generation had the GameCubes, Xboxes, and PS2s. My Dad had some Logitech controllers to play flight sims and mech games on the PC. I just used whatever controller was available and didn't really think much about the buttons. It wasn't till much later that I realized that A and B buttons on Nintendo controllers were backwards. My brain just knew where the buttons were subconsciously from hours of muscle memory.

[@TheSegacampGamerandWerecamp]

23:04 actually what I heard is B is Before and A is After!

[@Mayorski]

Lex looking more video essayist by the video......

[@philippegirouard8478]

I'm here for it!

[@thomasmoran7969]

Sega Dreamcast was basically already partnered with microsoft if you look at the front of the console it says Microsoft Windows CE, OG Xbox is Sega Dreamcast 2, even some of the games were ported directly over like Jetset Radio, Sega GT2002 and Soul Calibur

[@Lextorias]

Microsoft helped with the operating system that the Dreamcast ran on, but the teams who designed the consoles and controller were entirely different. The Xbox design team is on record as saying they took inspiration from the Dreamcast as a rival to the XBox

[@todesziege]

While the Xbox took a *lot* of inspiration from the Dreamcast, it always bugged me when people claim it was the 'Dreamcast 2'. The slick Dreamcast was a prime exambple of Japanese elegance, while the bulky Xbox oozed with Mountain Dew-green American tastelessness.

[@ZeallustImmortal]

​​@@todesziegeWeeb, try visiting Japan, its far from elegant lmao

[@thomasmoran7969]

@@todesziege and I respect your opinion, you should try it some time.

[@hakdragon]

The front of the Dreamcast says “Compatible with Windows CE”. Only a handful of games actually used it.

[@loginyes3745]

1:07 good kid jumpscare

[@joahchic]

its past 1 in the morning and i just got all giddy when i heard the song fade in 😭. He never eats, sleeps, OR leaves his house alone‼️‼️‼️‼️

[@EliTheBoi20000]

I love good kid

[@EliteInfiniteAI]

I was looking for this comment

[@Sabagegah]

Something weird about the Wii Remote: it is one-handed by default.

[@henningerhenningstone691]

That's to make up for the N64's controller that was three-handed by default 😁

[@alaeriia01]

​@@henningerhenningstone691 🙄

[@alexmoore9720]

Super well put together video! And love that you deliver the info in an understandable way. Clearer and more relatable than a lot of ted talks. Thumbs up dude!

[@patronise]

I did a double take on the Famicon controller seeing a distinct similarity between the top of the controller of the Switch controller connectors. But after a couple mins I realised that this was just an image of some retro Famicon controllers for the Switch. It was still a fun detour though. This is a great overview the history of controllers and I learned a buncha new stuff.

[@JavierRuizGarcia]

Glad to see I was not the only one bothered by this detail throughout the video.

[@mellowgeekstudio]

26:10 Tec Toy is not a Brazilian toy blog. Tec Toy is the Brazilian Toy company that licensed the Sega consoles and games in Brazil, manufacturing the originals and alternate versions of them to this very day.

[@AdmiralBison]

I recon the Steam Deck is playing a big part in the next iteration of the controller evolution - Trackpads & backpedals. - The Xbox One pro controller seemed to be one of the earliest controllers to have backpedals that handheld gaming PCs are increasingly adopting it - Steam Deck, Rog Ally, Lenovo Legion Go, MSI Claw, Aya Neo Kun....Sony wanting more PC presence might start introducing backpedals for a PS6 I recon. Backpedals will probably start seeing more refinement over the yeas with their functions more defined acting as: - 'Ctrl' and 'shift' keys - to double to functions of all other buttons - Accelerate and break - that may free up the triggers for more multi tasking - programmable keys - Valve released the Steam Controller around around 10 years ago now with it's circular trackpads to cater to PC gamers and PC gamers that were not designed with controllers in mind and PC gamers still not familiar with controllers (Yes, they do exist) BUT it flopped hard because Valve thought it could replace the tried and true D-Pad and Dual sticks. So they learned their lesson hard and not replace buttons and sticks that worked, but instead make trackpads an addition. The controller layout on the Steam Deck is interesting making all the face buttons, sticks and trackpad all accessible and just like the backpedals it is getting some more adoption from handheld gaming PCs. Lenovo Legion go has at least one trackpad AyaNeo Kun has dual trackpads Steam Deck dual trackpads will carry on and be refined in a Steam Deck 2 (I believe it is here to stay) I believe the growth of handheld gaming PCs, Sony's growing interest in Pc gamers porting and the nature of PCs they will mark influence on controller standards in the coming years. Now my dream to also have additional 4 x button numbs next to each of the shoulder/trigger buttons on controllers to effective have 8 x buttons at the top of controllers will one day become a standard.

[@penguinsushi8442]

Steam Controller 2 Valve pls fix haptics and trackpad clicks + triggers

[@angeldude101]

Interestingly, you can argue that the Switch Joy-cons _almost_ have back paddles in the form of the SR and SL buttons. They're not comfortable to actually use as replacements for other buttons, but you can use them if you remap the buttons in the settings.

[@nyon7209]

The Daemon X Machina controllers for the Switch had FL and FR back paddles that you could map to any other button on the controller 3 years before the Steam Deck came out, and I vaguely remember seeing them before then as well. Probably on other controllers made by Valve. Which, is really to say that the Steam Deck specifically wasn't their first use in gaming. But the Steam Deck would be the first thing to standardize them. As for the trackpad, I'm dubious on if they'll catch on.

[@Redhotsmasher]

@@nyon7209I mean, if we're looking for earlier examples, I just remembered I have a Thrustmaster Firestorm Dual Analog 3 gamepad which has a pair of back buttons (kinda like a third pair of shoulder buttons but located directly behind the analog sticks), and that thing's probably 20 years old or something. No idea if that's the first controller to have them either. Don't remember using them much though.

[@JonnyRobbie]

I love the idea of steam deck trackpads, unfortunatelly, they are virtually impossible to use when using them as remap of sticks. And when a game has mouse-look, they essentially all use some weird middleware controll software, which tries to switch between joy and k+m layout, but none allow joy and k+m to be used at the same time. THis makes it impossible to use right trackpad with mouse look and left stick with ingame joystick. That means that I essentially give up trying to set up right track as right stick. They only games that do it properly are just valve games anyway.

[@Countdownsmiles]

Did we gloss over the dualshock putting motors in the gribs to encorporate vibration functionality without needing rumble packs or other peripherals?

[@Dkgow]

"Very easy, barely an inconvenience" the meme that works

[@chaosSpectre370]

Fantastic video! Loved the deep dive into the history of these peripherals. I would love a similar video regarding motion controls in games, especially with the modern increase in popularity for gyro controls. Especially if you can also cover the Steam Controller and its wild existance.

[@EnvyOmicron]

🤞Here's to hoping we actually get a steam controller 2 that implements the features of the steam deck

[@JohnCachero]

I’ve enjoyed your videos all three separate times they showed up in my recommended. You’ve got a new subscriber. Keep up the quality videos, good sir!

[@havenfractal]

In an alternate universe, A/B ended up being the bottom/left buttons on the SNES, and X/Y the right/top. So Super Mario gets played with A/B the exact same way with the NES and the SNES, and X/Y are labeled like a coordinate plane, to the right and top. You can even see Nintendo trying to push for this X/Y placement on the GameCube controller. But ah... the SNES came out after the NES Advantage, so the A (right) button had to be placed slightly higher and the B (left) button had to be placed slightly lower, so that the two button were comfortable to hit with 2 different fingers from an angled hand. So to keep the A-before-B-right-to-left order, X-before-Y-right-to-left placed the X on top, and the Y on the left.

[@FritzCopyCat]

The Game Boy also used the higher A/lower B layout. While the NES Advantage was released two years earlier, I'd assume the Game Boy had more direct influence on the Super Famicom's layout. It's pretty obvious that Nintendo miscalculated the SFC layout and that the whole face button section should've been rotated 90° clockwise (the US SNES controllers make it even more obvious with their mix of concave and convex buttons). I wouldn't be surprised if there were some embarrassment internally and that's what lead to them abandoning the layout for several generations.

[@havenfractal]

@@FritzCopyCat I agree that the GameBoy probably influenced the SNES, I just included the NES Advantage because it probably was influenced by the NES Advantage. After all, you can easily use a thumb on A/B on the Gameboy in either thumb-rocking orientation, so the choice for a higher right button and lower left button was originally to match earlier products... like the NES Advantage.

[@EnvyOmicron]

This feels like an incredibly minor piece of evidence that the multiverse is real, but we are *not* in the main timeline; we're stuck in one of the weird (bad) alternate timelines

[@SMlFFY85]

Microsoft was making controllers for PC for a good few years prior to the release of XBox, they had all sorts of designs, from conventional to wacky.

[@DanielKaspo]

26:23 the despair in your voice 😂😂 I'm so sorry but thank you so much for covering this topic!! It's relevant for something I'm working on!

[@-maki446]

6:14 ファミコンのコントローラーって見せてるのにJoy-Con版で草

[@Lextorias]

It is hard to find high quality images of an original Famicom controller. The JoyCon version has the same design

[@albatross1779]

With X and Circle, I always figured it's both the colour choice (blue typically being a colour with positive associations, with red being the opposite), as well as the fact that writing an X in a box is associated with making a choice, while circle carries no such meaning. The placement of the X button is more comfortable too, so that definitely helps.

[@SuperFlashDriver]

Ironic considering the Circle is the "A" button and the X is the "B" button in Japan. Whereas American still had "A" at the bottom" and "B" on the right, "Y" on the top, and "X" on the left.

[@albatross1779]

@@SuperFlashDriver Yes, I guess in a roundabout way, Sony's decision to reverse the Japanese controls in the West, reversed the odd reversal of button placement that could be traced back to Nintendo, and cemented the Western button placement that both PlayStation and Xbox use to this day.

[@SuperFlashDriver]

@@albatross1779 Yeah. I mean, I got used to both American and Japanese button layouts/presses, but I'm sure some americans didn't get used to it (heck, even my mom couldn't).

[@albatross1779]

@@SuperFlashDriver I thank Nintendo for being used to the Japanese layout, since that is the Worldwide layout of Nintendo controls, so even though I default to the Western layout, it's not as though I feel off playing on Switch and using its A button to confirm things.

[@customsongmaker]

In Japan, X always means "no". Like a quiz, you would circle the correct choice and X out the incorrect choice. That's why Xbox was called WrongBox in Japan. Or Baku Baku box, which is what they say when they form an X in front of the body and say "baku baku" to indicate "wrong touch".

[@dizzydee4889]

I appreciate the deep dive! something about HID design is endlessly interesting to me. I agree with your theory about the Famicom buttons, A being primary and B being secondary. It's surprising that the SNES didn't have ABXY with A on the bottom given how even in the early development Nintendo knew the bottom button felt like the primary one. but perhaps as you said, a lot of these decisions weren't heavily scrutinized in the moment, and a "whatever works" mentality won out. Spacewar buttons coming from a train set is a great tidbit!

[@mkv2718]

they should have 6 face buttons again, and put 2 buttons side by side for the bumper above the triggers. and back buttons should be standard. more options for control are ALWAYS better

[@sonicmaster047]

ADHD version: because different companies make different types of controllers.

[@kosmosyche]

You forgot to mention the connecting evolutionary link between the standard 3-button Sega Mega Drive / Genesis controller and the Sega Saturn controller. You see, when Street Fighter II': Special Champions Edition hit the Mega Drive / Genesis in 1993, Sega reacted very fast by releasing a 6-button Sega Mega Drive / Genesis controller at the same time and replacing the 3-button controller included with all the new consoles sold. So essentially the 6-button controller basically became the de facto standard for the Sega Mega Drive / Genesis. And this fact becomes even more important historically because of... Mortal Monday or the release of the "uncensored" Mortal Kombat (as opposed to the lousy censored one for losers on the SNES, which nobody could care less about) on Sega Mega Drive / Genesis, which was probably the highest point in Sega's 16-bit console history... or maybe even their whole history, who knows? Of course, a 6-button controller was quite essential for both games. So as you can see, historically the 6-button Sega Mega Drive / Genesis controller was way more influential and historically important than the Sega Saturn controller, which was basically just a repackaging of the same form-factor again for the next generation of consoles from Sega.

[@Leel3ones89]

Thank you for posting I was gonna say the same thing..... in less words probably. Maybe he glossed over this controller so he could make the joke about the Saturn.

[@kosmosyche]

@@Leel3ones89 lol yeah, I don't know why I had to be so verbose.

[@chrisfratz]

Apparently the pressure sensitive buttons on the PS2 were used in metal gear solid 2. If you were aiming a gun in first person and wanted to fire it you would hold the button and then let go like normal, if you changed your mind and didn't want the fire you would hold the button but then slowly let go instead of rapidly.

[@Dravenick]

Cool!

[@SystemBD]

One interesting thing that wasn't mention are the controller keyboard overlays for some early consoles. Small pieces of plastic (if not just paper) that the players were supposed to slide into the controller to relabel the buttons with the actions specific for each game. Of course, those overlays got dirty, broken and/or lost over time, but they were a great help in the beginning, since the games had so little data sizes to work with, they could not include tutorials. With all the hardware customization options we have these days (special editions, faceplates, vynils...), it would be interesting to see this idea came back, to make it easier for those new to gaming to overcome their fear to controllers that, for them, looks as intimidating as the controls in a plane cockpit.

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

There was a keyboard a while back that had tiny screens you could redefine on every single key. It'd be expensive as all hell (like the keyboard was), but it'd be interesting to see that idea applied to face buttons on a game controller.

[@orenmartin187]

1:05 BABE WAKE UP, GOOD KID SONG IS FEATURED

[@EliteInfiniteAI]

YEAHHHHHHH

[@thejas123rapperdude]

To me for the PlayStation controller, the X looked like a check mark of sorts, like your crossing an option box. The red circle straight up looks like a stop sign so...

[@travis.stevens]

Bring back “Start” and “Select” 🗣️

[@kood995]

PLEASE

[@satyamSaha]

its not exactly gone though, the + and - buttons on the Switch controller is just start and select.

[@todesziege]

The names might seem arbitrary, but they are no more so than whatever ridiculous replacements we've gotten instead.

[@LakituAl]

I still call them Start and Select to this day. They can't make me stop

[@marcusaureliusf]

I've played very few games where select actually selected anything. It was usually a "map" or "in-game menu" button while start was a "pause menu" button.

[@gordyhowitzer]

One thing I've always found interesting about modern controller design is the orientation of the analog sticks, where Playstation has them side by side and Nintendo and Xbox have the left one higher, above the D-Pad. This does seem to come from the design lineage of the Dreamcast controller, but I for one have always found the Dualshock and it's decedents more comfortable, and have mostly bought non-exclusive games on Playstation consoles due to this. I also vaguely remember the D-Pad on the Duke being really shitty, and that having something to do with competing patents on the switches (or something like that)

[@Lextorias]

From what I read researching the video, Nintendo patented Gunpei Yokoi's d-pad design quite eary, which is why Sega and other companies made a more circular d-pad instead of the distinct plus shape. By the time of the XBox there were probably already other patents in play, but that would've been a main reason they had a more different design

[@todesziege]

Every single Microsoft controller (that I've ever used) is a competitor for "worst D-pad ever". Including their old line of PC controllers.

[@rafaelluciano5596]

Analog stick placement each has its own lineage. Nintendos coming from the GameCube c stick. I imagine how it was used in smash bros helped cement it's placement. The Xbox as mentioned takes it's general layout from the Dreamcast. I imagine as Microsoft more heavily targets the American market, more care is taken for larger hands brushing together when using dual analogs together. Sony kind of stumbled into this layout by accident I feel because when looking at the original playstation layout.. where the heck else are we going to drop two sticks on here? This was created for Ape escape specifically, but saw more usage as shooters gained prominence. The Wii u saw Nintendo experiment with the stick layout a little, but I think most consumers still felt the face buttons below the stick to be a bit strange

[@Redhotsmasher]

I thought the Wii U "upside down" layout was the comfiest thing ever, no idea why they didn't stick with it.

[@davidsentanu7836]

​@@Redhotsmasher They didn't stick with it because they realised to make the Switch's joy-cons usable for 2 players they have to put one stick on top and the other on the bottom.

[@Tom_Der_Echte]

Fun fact: the Xbox controller has two X buttons

[@neuroticmetallicity8130]

How?

[@Tom_Der_Echte]

@@neuroticmetallicity8130 the Xbox logo is just an X so it basically has two 😂

[@Griffolicious]

@@neuroticmetallicity8130home button and the x face button

[@sosasees]

i believe that the buttons will soon stop having symbols: first, desktop and mobile games won't show the symbols anymore, so indie developers don't have to program detecting the type of controller. the icon of each button will show all four buttons and highlight the one that's being meant - Nintendo Switch pioneered this approach for sideways Joy‑Cons. much later, the console makers will remove the symbols from the games and controller. they have good reason to hesitate because the old games would have to be reworked to show the modern button prompts - either in the game itself or just lining up the modern button symbols with the old ones at the bottom, below the whole game.

[@KattoRockFire]

One theory i came up with (based on industrial design) is that A is used to confirm and important actions, and B is used to cancel and secondary actions, they are backwards because A is closer to your hand than B, so is easier to perform those more important actions, so the design is meant to be seen as "inwards" or in an order that fits your right hand more confortably

[@salserio6727]

The B-A layout for Nintendo is simple. 'A' was the primary action button and 'B' the secondary. Having 'A' in the right places it closer to the thumb that will be pressing it. The player has to reach a little farther for 'B'. It may not seem like that would be a big deal, but it can make a world of difference. There WAS a practical reason for the decision.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Yes, but they could just as easily have made A the secondary button and B the primary one and preserved the alphabetical ordering. The most likely reason is simply because they drive on the left hand side of the road and a portion of the ordering for writing is from right to left, which leaves them in a position where labeling them A, B doesn't share the same level of entrenchment that it would in the US or Europe. The reason that Sega didn't do it in that order is probably because they used numbers for the buttons on the Master System and switch to letters when they released the Genesis. In any part of the world, people are going to recognize the Arabic numerals acting more or less the same way.

[@RakoonCD]

Why would A be the secondary one? It's the first letter. Litteraly the reason A is the right most button is because ergonomicly its the first button you'll interact with.

[@reenchanted]

27:57 Sadly, I agree entirely. Making B become the primary button led to so much confusion later, and it definitely reversed the design decision of why A was likely right of B to begin with, as the most accessible and therefore primary button. SF/SNES should have gone with this instead: Y B X A It makes more sense for keeping A as the primary button. It makes sense because it puts X on the horizontal axis and Y on the vertical. It is baffling to me that this wasn’t what they went with.

[@TheOrangeDart]

As a controller enthusiast, this was exciting to see. Another controller topic (that would probably take just as long to research, if not even more) would be D-pads. Where it started, how they changed, the differences between how manufacturers design them, what kinds of D-pads are good for X genre, is the Steam Controller "D-pad" a real D-pad, how Nintendo went from making some of the best D-pads to making the awful Switch Pro Controller's D-pad, etc. It could go on forever. D-pads are great.

[@DarkRequiemFilms]

You're right about the Playstation Controller, they use shapes. Cross is a shape. X is a letter of the alphabet.

[@Allanusmonostat]

“This is why I saved this for the end” 15 minutes left in the video

[@PikeTheFalcon]

I think the only time I've seen the pressure sensitive buttons used on a controller somewhat well would be in Ace Combat 5, where you can expand the sized of you mini map based you how hard you press it down. Another option that was provided was just pressing it multiple times.

[@rafaelluciano5596]

Mgs2 actually makes pretty heavy use of them too. Not mandatory, but definitely has meaningful functionality

[@navsingh9406]

It also worked in Gran Turismo, the harder you pressed the more gas you would give.

[@Appletank8]

yeah i think a lot of racing games implemented analog button control, but like, why. I'm not sure if it's more precise than just using the right stick, though I guess being able to flip between brake and gas fast is an advantage

[@navsingh9406]

I defo preferred using the analogue stick over the button due to being able to have finer controls. The anlogue face buttons were just mushy af@@Appletank8

[@brendanwiley253]

Man is the master of "Nobody was asking this question so now I'm going to answer it."

[@TheLameTV]

I was asking this question... Thank you very much 😋

[@SumeaBizarro]

A lot of genesis games actually let you confirm with either A or C, only leaving B as the cancel button to cancel them all. OK, "a lot" I think thus far I can say comix zone, phantasy star from top of my head. I think Magic Knights Rayearth on saturn. That's Genesis right? Generally, a lot of games let you do "choose" also with C button. This had a lot of text about playstation layout, that the video actually contained so I removed it. But, also Final Fantasy VII had circle as confirm too, not just Kojima was on that camp. There likely is few more. I play way too much, way too old games man.

[@jordanberndt4157]

Growing up, I had a friend with third-party Genesis controllers that above the A,B, C buttons had additional labels describing A as "Choose", B as "Main", and C as "Sub". I think this was probably Sega's original intention for each button, although not every developer followed it.

[@memor22]

I really thought they all stole from eachother or sony, but it's crazy to see that all of them had designs that start from different places