Lieutenant Norman Dike - Poor Commander vs Being A Hero (Band of Brothers)

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

I wanted to add something about Dike, and that is people asking how a man who has demonstrated courage can be so disliked by his men and fall pray to hearsay contrary to documented fact as we know Dike was no coward nor did he freeze at Foy due to stress, but was seriously wounded. From my own experience in the US Army, several things can (have) happen: 1) Elite units often dislike outsiders as a rule. If I recall, Dike was a replacement officer. This alone would not endear him to his men. There would be resentment for being outsider, not sharing in shared suffering/adversity and a much higher standard expected of him as a leader. 2) Much of the criticism comes from NCOs, and indeed, surprisingly, more than one completely got wrong the events at Foy but still acted as if they saw everything claiming he froze under pressure when he was, in fact, seriously wounded. This speaks to two things: a. Many people in the military tend to take for granted reputations of officers or soldiers before they ever meet them. It is fashionable and easy to bash a perceived dirtbag. The Army, like all small vocations, loves its rumors and pigeon-holing people for better or worse. Reputations precede people. That is why I never accepted any reputations of people, but judged for myself their character. Lots of guys heard Dike's rep and stuck with it without ever knowing him. b. Regarding NCOs swearing up and down they know what happened at Foy even they weren't in a position to see: People in the Army, and especially for combat situations they survived, like to repeat gossip, or even have a mandela effect for what happened. It even happens in large battles that are well-documented, and if repeated becomes fact. This is why historians need to parse the tea-leaves and make sure eye-witness testimony wasn't hearsay. In this respect Ambrose failed. 3) Dike came from money, and combined with being a replacement officer, would be more than enough for his NCOs to resent him. I love NCOs, and served with many outstanding NCOs, but no one gossips as much as they, and no one holds grudges more dearly, or longer. And, as a rule, they don't like green officers, often for good reason. 4) Regarding Winters, it is actually surprising to hear so much venom from him about Dike. Of all people, he would know the facts on the ground, but evidently always got it wrong in this case. He too claims Dike froze at Foy, he not once mentions Dike's being seriously wounded as the proximate cause of his losing control of the battle. Winters has repeatedly demonstrated himself as being a thoughtful, kind and forgiving guy. But Dike seemingly pissed him off. Whether it is a combination of Dike's attitude, background, resenting a newb or his taking a coveted ADC slot with the CG (truly a prized position, I know I was fortunate to serve in that capacity), taking his NCO's opinions as gospel, it really seems like Winters hated the guy and in some respects, perhaps that clouded his judgement. But hey, no one is perfect.

[@War_And_Truth]

Great post

[@StoriesBytheBrick]

As someone who hasn't done much if any research on the subject, how do we know Dike was wounded at Foy? I know one trooper said he saw Dike get shot, but is there any other evidence? I'd like to know if there's any other source that claims this so I can get a better understanding of the subject (i'm certainly ignorant in this regard)

[@War_And_Truth]

@@StoriesBytheBrick 99% of the history comes from the veterans as action reports mostly cover the unit/division as a whole. Citations are handy but they are for individuals receiving awards.

[@lymanfaith1183]

Very insightful and accurate from my perspective in the USAF. With respect to the aide-de-camp position being coveted, that is true for some. Other officers see them (incorrectly) as perfumed princes. Jealously within the officer corps exists.

[@paulw176]

I was USN LT and a Naval Aviator. I got crosswise with a CPO and within weeks my own reputation was being undermined by a guy with a petty gripe against me. A real wake up call for me regarding the quality and character of the men in my squadron. This followed me through my 7 years on active duty and played a big part in my decision to get out of the service ...when that time came. Rumors, etc., can be poison in any working environment and especially in the armed forces - I enjoyed your perspectives -

[@jordanvangundy975]

The thing to keep in mind about band of brothers is that it’s based on Stephen Ambrose’s Band of Brothers rather than necessarily the truth. It’s based on his interviews with the soldiers of Co. E, and those were done decades after the fact. It’s mostly true, but there are instances of the vets getting things wrong, or, like here, the majority’s biases come out in the finished product. They also all thought that Albert Blithe died from his wounds in the late 40s, but it was just because he didn’t go to the reunions before he died in the 60s and nobody had kept up with him.

[@mikebrase5161]

Yeah Blithe couldn't go to the reunions because he was still serving on active duty. 🤦

[@scottsuydam3349]

Winters actually in an interview said they portrayed Blithe completely wrong.

[@jonquinn11]

Ambrose was really a pretty sloppy historian-another plagiarist even.

[@marianotorrespico2975]

@@jonquinn11 --- HE HAD TO PUBLISH or PERISH . . .

[@mattburnett4185]

Blithe was chilling out one day watching tv, sees himself die in the war. Also it seems like Dike got a medal saving a bunch of guys in Bastogne.

[@bhurtpore]

So glad I watched this. It completely changes the narrative on his character & the Foy scene. He was a piss-poor leader, but not a poor soldier and certainly not a coward. It would be interesting to find out the nature of his wound during the assault.

[@dawildebeastbc]

I believe i heard a documentary saying he got shot in the upper backside of his leg, nothing bad enough like an artery or hitting bone but would have messed up his hamstring pretty good, makes more sense that he got bogged down, couldnt move as well and was probably in shock

[@danielcobia7818]

According to another commenter: @djay6651 A Soldier named Lyall said he say Dike get hit in the shoulder at Foy. Original spelling preserved so you can potentially find the comment.

[@macmcleod1188]

​@@danielcobia7818I have also read that he was shot in the shoulder. I have also entertained the possibility that he may have been suffering from combat fatigue in the same way that Compton was portrayed. And FYI, Compton has disputed that he had combat fatigue on camera in interviews, however. He said it was a fabrication of the TV show.

[@NotchFox]

Band of brothers was a fascinating story, but please remember, it was a television show, based on a book that was based on 50 year old recollections that were formed and distorted by the "fog of war"! I would hesitate to make any judgement on any participant's character based on this.

[@kittybitts567]

besides, most Americans haven't served in the military or experienced war. I'm the last person to pass judgement on anyone anywhere.

[@w.p8960]

I’m Nam era, not WW2. We always considered the bronze star the officer’s good conduct ribbon.

[@Hellbender21]

Iraq era here, same. And all respect to your generation.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

Not BSM's with Vs.

[@Snaproll47518]

Bronze Stars vs Bronze Stars with a V for valor. Bronze Stars without a V for valor are fairly common.

[@thomasritz4863]

In many ways you are correct. However, the “V” device sets it apart…

[@militarymarch3006]

As an officer, the Bronze Star "for service" is a joke. It's a participation trophy for officers AND senior NCOs. In fact, the higher in rank you are, the harder it should be to get any award, whether for Valor or not. We get paid to meet higher expectations of performance.

[@phishENchimps]

My grandfather lost a lot of men under his command in the pacific as a combat engineer. The one that bothered him the most to the end was the loss of a young soldier who was sitting in the back of his jeep while he was driving. A Japanese sniper shot the kid and he always felt like it was for him and should have been for him. He never got over it.

[@PaleoCon2008]

I greatly admire the men of Easy Co. and have met several of them. I am convinced that the story we heard comes largely from the veterans who knew and greatly respected Dick Winters. There is a slant to the story that seems to require diminishing several other officers in the company. I do not think we have the whole story on Sobel or Dike or even Peacock or Shames. Sadly, they are all now gone and we will likely never hear the real details of these stories. Both Dike and Sobel evidently served in Korea and both retired after rising to Lt. Colonel. We don't and can't know the total story of these two men. It's a shame.

[@chris76346]

Shames was a very serious officer. He even admitted it, stress, lack of sleep and just burned out. He yelled, but he also kept his guys alive as much as possible.

[@jason-hy8ci]

I feel for their families...... I don't know how the Producers could take liberties like that. These men were their loved ones, THEIR HEROES. If it's true thats one thing but that's why the Truth is so important.

[@PaleoCon2008]

@@jason-hy8ci I agree with your sentiments. I believe I have read every book written by and about the members of Easy Co. I met a few of them at an event and met a few more at Dick Winter's public memorial. It is clear that the Ambrose and the producers of the show were focused on a couple of viewpoints that further examination of the record doesn't fully support. Ambrose was a sloppy historian in a lot of cases. And memories of veterans were spotty by the time he wrote the book.

[@ethanperks372]

Sobel went in on D-Day with the 101. He was cited twice for gallantry in action and was wounded. So he was certainly no coward! (If I remember correctly he received 2 Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart over the course of 2 weeks!

[@FromPovertyToProgress]

I cannot imagine the pressure of being a replacement platoon/company commander for an elite infantry unit that had already been together through three major battles. The slightest error in judgment can lead to the death of yourself and others. Everyone is scrutinizing you. It is a minor miracle that anyone could do that.

[@ericb2501]

Dike was the Company Commander not a Platoon Commander.

[@FromPovertyToProgress]

@@ericb2501 Correct. I think that it is a fairly similar situation.

[@daniellebcooper7160]

This proves that theres always 'two sides to every story'.. Thank you

[@grimmevol4344]

none of us were there or knew these men, we have no business judging any of them, I thank God for each and every one of them

[@Snoopydad]

The film also did not give any inkling that Sobel would jump in combat and would distinguish himself in several actions.

[@War_And_Truth]

Ill be doing a video on Sobel in the near future.

[@asmith1711]

Met plenty like him, shout down and smile up, I couldnt care how brave they were, but how well they led. Sobel is despised over every single military service throughout the west, because we've all met his type and hate them

[@TheDesertwalker]

@@War_And_Truth COOL!!!

[@bobbyb2222]

He is another one where a lot of the soldiers under him hated him, including Winters who spoke very badly about him. A few of the men liked him but the ones who did were… how should I put it, not fondly remembered as well.

[@davidlavigne207]

Whatever the real Norman Dike was like, Peter O'Meara did a brilliant bit of acting portraying what the writers, director and the producers expected from him. I've met officers in the Army during my service whom the enlisted soldiers just can't quite respect for whatever reasons. Peter brought all those feelings to the surface for us as we watched his performance, and THAT is the job of an actor. I say well done Peter. As for the real Lt. Dike, I can only say that he must have come across perhaps as a typical West Point officer maybe that put his ambitions before his men. This is pure conjecture, but I have know men such as this. That is not to denigrate all West Point trained officers, for I have also served under some outstanding graduates of that place. In any case, great interview!

[@shouldhavedonebetter]

Dike went to Brown University and Yale Law School.

[@davidlavigne207]

@@shouldhavedonebetter Thank you. I assumed that he might have been a West Pointe Graduate.

[@shouldhavedonebetter]

@@davidlavigne207 No problem. You ought to look him up - BoB did him really dirty.

[@davidlavigne207]

@@shouldhavedonebetter WILCO. Thanks.

[@shouldhavedonebetter]

@@davidlavigne207 If you feel like it - check out Albert Blithe's, Joseph Leibgott's and Herbert Sobel's real stories. Shocking mischaracterizations. Respect to you. Out.

[@caseynova1]

I've seen all episodes several times, and I always thought that this actor's depiction of Lt. Dike was perhaps the most compelling of all the characters portrayed. Capt. Sobel, too. And Capt. Nixon. But Dike stood out. A complex guy, it would seem. And so recognizable. The scene in Bastogne where he starts cursing "goddammit, where's my foxhole?" and Sgt. Lipton says calmly "I'll take you there, sir. You're a little too close to the line here" is telling. I couldn't know but I assume that all soldiers on all sides are afraid and tense and their blood pressure boils. Dike may well have had bravery as noted by his war record, but he might have lacked skills at concealing the underlying fear. Not all soldiers are combat leaders. That's a specialty. Also Dike wandering off was familiar. Anything to get away from combat?

[@macmcleod1188]

I had researched Dike before and thought the show was accurate to Easy Companies *memories* of him but not accurate to who he really was.

[@davebettey1936]

Because of the serious BOB I always assumed Lt Dike as incompetent and had no care for the men under his command. After watching this video, I now see him in a different light and a Hero just like the other men who served to fight the Nazi and Axis forces for freedom. Lt Dike a replacement officer, would have found it difficult too fit into a Unit who had been together since its formation. The Series should have shown what had happened to Lt Dike, "gunshot wound" and what he had accomplished after the War, just like they did with the other members of Easy Company. Lt Dike, was there Leader all bit for a short time, but still a member. RIP Lt Dike.

[@robsonborba6273]

I found out now at this exact moment that he wasn't a coward, I always based my thoughts on what the show portrayed but i was always curious how someone being a coward and with no leadership skills would reach at a command post in the middle of a world war and win medals of distinction? Most likely he didn't have sympathy from his colleagues because he was an alien commander that no one met until his arrival, just like us normal people when, instead of promoting a co-worker, our company decides to hire a boss from out of nowhere. It takes time for people to have respect and trust.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@robsonborba6273 it's also speculation but he may have suffered from combat fatigue by that point in the war.

[@dwnrange7812]

This was highlights the sheer brutality of what these men went through back then when someone like this could be even considered a coward

[@Harldin]

Thanks for your great videos on Easy Company, Interesting that both Sobel and Dike were awarded gallantry medals for actions away from Easy. Rightly or wrongly both were painted very poorly in the series. We shouldn't judge Dike on his behaviour or his leadership capabilities on his behaviour at Bastogne alone, he may have cracked mentally before taking command of Easy, and we definitely shouldn't judge him on the show.

[@War_And_Truth]

Thanks

[@michaelmayojr.3031]

Easy company had two great leaders (Spears & Winters) and some other good leaders. Not all people are meant to be leaders, though they may be competent and skilled individuals. Being new in any unit or setting is never easy and few will dominate as personalities.

[@RDobbs-uv4xc]

I'll take Winters and the boys word on it that they were justified in their feelings and opinions.

[@DaDaW9762]

The thing is.. Its not a COs job to fight, he obviously had moments of great courage where he did things to save lives, he was awarded medals and so on.. But any job past a platoon commander isn't a thrusting bayonets into cu^ts, blood in the teeth, combat job! It's a planning job.. If there was times when he stayed in a Fighting pit(fox hole) and took in the situation and dished out directions and went to HQ to discuss things and long hours in meetings away from the front, then those were the times he was doing what he was supposed to do.. I think his lack of popularity came from how uptight he was, his busybody military guy ways, and the shoes he was filling, those shoes had been filled by big guys, and Norman Dyke just wasn't big enough.

[@davidcoleman757]

There's an interesting parallel with Dike joining an established and battle-hardened company and O'Meara not really feeling part of the acting ensemble. I need to re-watch that episode in the light of this insightful interview. Some Easy men clearly had issues with Dike, but once again the series wasn't terribly fair or accurate with a portrayal. Those medals for gallantry really should have been credited.

[@rayhallett]

Thanks for adding to the stories from World War 2. We need all of them.On their own, they can be only one part of the whole experience of war. Trust me, there are many ways to understand, many stories to tell, about the war I went through (the Soviet-Afghan war in the '80's), but I do have my version of it. They did too when it came to their war. It's not the whole picture, but it's still true.

[@JLTJr.]

Thank you for bringing this historical information to light . The Band of Brothers book and series were great but much information was left out or otherwise flipped ; men and their experiences were combined or otherwise changed to fit a scene . Much of the book and series were based on the memories of about 30 men in a company that saw more than 10 times that many pass through from 1942 until 1945 . Memories are like that old car commercial caveat : your mileage may vary . While I enjoyed the book and series I don't take them as gospel truth .

[@buddhaken]

He was mentioned one other time in the book. Towards the end of the book and war, he is on stage as General Taylor's aide

[@HabitualButtonPusher]

No disrespect to Lt. Dike intended as a soldier and a person. You have to take some awards for officers with a grain of salt, especially Bronze Stars. It was insane what and how some officers (and enlisted) were awarded or received them by just being there, or “in command of”. My personal friend was awarded one at the beginning of Afghanistan for talking on the radio and coordinating and air strike for what turned out to be an empty cave. War is hell as they say, but he has a cool license plate that he claims gets him out of speeding tickets.

[@michaeldelano9233]

Norman Dikes second bronze star was dated January 3rd, 1945, the same day Guarnere and Toye lost their legs. So we those the 2 soldiers he was helping in full view of the enemy? I don't know what to make of his portrayal.

[@War_And_Truth]

Good pick up. There were a lot of troopers injured that day so its difficult to say for sure.

[@chrispierdominici3891]

There are interviews from some of the members of Easy that’s didn’t speak as badly of Dike and affirm that his freezing at Foy was most likely from the wound he received and the shock of that messing up his judgment. I believe Ed Shames was also less unkind in his words about Dike, likely because he came into the unit later as well.

[@Downeaster-y3y]

All dramas have to have a villain. It just makes the protagonists look better. Another person they crapped on was Ed Shames. Read his book and he had an amazing career and he was treated as just a screaming idiot in the series.

[@asmith1711]

He could have also realised he was a dick, and changed his ways. Like a character arc, maybe he had one.

[@Jazzman-bj9fq]

One of the things that I've taken away from rewatching the series just recently is that it's so easy to have anger and resentment for these portrayals of the not-so-good officers of Easy Co or the 506th PIR because those officers who distinguished themselves did so to such a degree that even Superman himself would seem ho-hum compared to these men who trained like crazy for two years, underwent the most intense training of the time then jumped into the jaws of Hell itself. Those battles and struggles of WWII are probably among the worst days that a man can go through most likely never to be repeated on that scale. I can't even imagine the feeling of those soldiers as they boarded up trucks headed for Bastogne, knowing they were going into a pretty much hopeless situation and on top of that not even having the basic gear like ammo and cold weather gear to just give them some comfort of being prepared.

[@War_And_Truth]

Well said.

[@billybaxter6333]

Like us all none of us know how we will react when the bullets start flying. We all hope we would be like Dick Winter but none of us truly know.

[@kelrogers8480]

If that was the case, and 'no one knows', you would not end up in the 101st in the first place!

[@RedTail1-1]

The book written by Ambrose can't be taken as 100% truth. That book is old men trying to remember specific events around 50 years earlier and is mostly what they think they saw or vaguely recall. If you watch the videos of some of the guys revisiting old battlegrounds some of them don't remember a thing. With how awful the war was and everything they went through they are bound to try and forget as much as they could, skewing the truth and misremembering a lot of details.

[@fatcat3211]

I wish HBO would release a 4K set with extended scenes of BOB.

[@sandovalperry2895]

The criteria for awards ebbs and flows. I’ve seen the days of the award “package” where it was an insert name here boiler plate to a time when NO one got an award. Awards that were approved at the O-5 level suddenly had to go to the O-8 level. They came up with the achievement medals because they needed to boost morale in peacetime. The “joint” award is another ribbon to impress the civilians. Unless it’s a valor award (they did award ARCOMs with Vs) or a purple heart I won’t be overly impressed.

[@jaimeweezer6260]

This series should have 1B views

[@War_And_Truth]

I agree :P

[@creativereality4212]

Great video. These get better and better.

[@War_And_Truth]

Thank you.

[@djay6651]

A Soldier named Lyall said he say Dike get hit in the shoulder at Foy.

[@TrickiVicBB71]

They should have done a scene where he saved a few soldiers from ambush and got a bronze star. Hindsight is 20/20. But this mini series should have been longer

[@War_And_Truth]

It was definitely too one sided when it came to Dike. At least show the guy getting shot to give a little perspective to why he possibly froze during the attack.

[@RonaldColeman-ef2rc]

Hate that Dike went through all that. He was a hero.

[@stanherman5604]

everybody has a breaking point, and no one knows when they'll reach it or how long it will last.

[@oregonpatriot1570]

I don't know how *_ANYONE_* avoids it in battle! How can you *NOT* when you never know when you're going to get it? Especially after watching so many others wither in pain during their last moments! My father served in the Pacific, on three islands. Bougainville, Guam and Iwo Jima. I didn't serve during 'my war', _(America pulling out of Vietnam when I became 18)_ but to his dying day, my father would talk for hours to complete strangers if they EVER served in the Marines. _Me?_ He would never talk about the war with me, his only son. _ I guess it's how a lot of those guys were/are.

[@dangrayson6393]

the good soldiers and the not so good soldiers i will not judge them until i put my life on the line . until then i will call them all heroes.

[@eloquentsarcasm]

As a former grunt, I had Officers I respected deeply, and ones I just simply disliked, they could have been outstanding human beings around their family/friends outside the military, but all I saw was their conduct in uniform. We all rarely got the "full picture", and based our opinions on the information at hand. Dike seemed a decent guy, and if he "froze" at Foy due to being SHOT, I can understand it totally. People react differently to injury, I always got mad as hell when hurt, pain came later, anger fueled me and adrenaline kept the pain away til well after the fact. Looking at the 30+ year old scar on my wrist from a ricochet as I type this, I can still remember only realizing what had happened after someone else pointed out I was bleeding. Combat is a totally different world, emotions and hormones are running high, and only the best can compartmentalize things and function at a high level. Regardless, those Easy Co. guys were a breed apart, they made history, and for that alone I respect the hell out of them. If any were still alive today I'd happily buy them a round and toast their achievements.

[@War_And_Truth]

The series should have definitely shown Dike getting shot. That would have changed peoples perspective somewhat. He was obviously not cut out for combat but the series really shred the guy to pieces. Even the actor was pretty upset about it but who's going to complain to Hanks about the script?

[@JamesBarker-qt3pb]

​Thus Is Extremely Contrerversal And I Know For Definitely Fact That Band Of Brothers Is Pure Gold Masterpiece. But Aside From That, And Whether I Should Think This Is A Different Matter. But Mainly And Only Because There Were Some Inaccuracies And Little Bits Not Shown In The Series. It's Mainly Because Of This That I Really Do Wonder If A Band Of Brothers Reboot Would Even Be A Wise Idea? I Know It Would Be A Huge Gamble,And Would Have To Be Ever So Careful As To Tarnish The Band Of Brothers Legacy. Or Maybe A Reboot In The Shape Of A Film? What Do You Think?

[@wallysprint]

Donald Malarkey's words on Dike from his book "Easy Company Soldier": " ..his replacement was Norman Dike Jr., and East Coast blue blood with no combat experience who would later freeze like a Popsicle in the midst of an assault.. .. a guy who'd hardly seen any combat.. ... some nose-in-the-air Yaley who knew someone high up. He spooked everyone. He was Sobel without the thoughness. In the blasts that got Guarnere and Toye, Dike had scurried off like a scared rabbit... ..Winters was feeding Dike instructions like a coach to a rookie quarterback.. ..Dike had frozen behind a haystack. Flat-out refused to lead the charge. Winters was going nuts on the radio, trying to get Dike in gear.. .. some higher-up's "golden boy"..

[@RivetGardener]

We have all met Dyke's in our lives...military or otherwise. No need to sugarcoat things to make him a bit nicer. He was a jerk, as they all are.

[@garystefanski7227]

Malarkey is right.

[@garystefanski7227]

"Malarkey, that means bullshit, right?" Sobel was right on that one.

[@mightymikethebear]

@@garystefanski7227 Malarkey may have written his description of Dike from a biased point of view.

[@BadMoonRising92]

@@mightymikethebearpeople tend to view war veterans depicted in movies as super heros without flaw, when they are human too. Like you said, malarkey could have written that in an extremely biased view against a man he didn’t like on a personal level. People will look for things wrong with a fine tooth comb if it’s about someone they don’t like and will find ways to excuse anything towards people we do like jus to further cement our beliefs

[@jamesblack4883]

No matter how well you train for it, you can't tell how you will be until the shit hits the fan.

[@patricks.6812]

Having been the new guy in a unit, it is not easy. You have to fit in with men that have experience that you don't. It's nobodies fault. It is what it is.

[@behindthespotlight7983]

TV requires villains or fallible characters . Band of Brothers is no exception: Herbert M Sobel Albert Blithe Ronald Spiers Joseph Liebcott Norman Dike Buck Compton Captain Nixon …each of these men are presented as fallible and serve to juxtapose the obvious heroes of a given episode (Winters, Lipton, Bull Randalman et al)

[@NemoBlank]

The feuds of officers can be based on many things that can't be faulted, like being the unwanted career USA replacement that was sent in to 'gain experience' and thusly scotched the lateral promotion of an AUS favorite. Any perception true or false though it may be of that sort of ticket punching is deeply frowned upon. As to 'Foxhole Norman,' it is not the job of an officer to pull trigger. He aims and fights the company, something a dead man absolutely cannot do. The real problem with Dyke was that he was an outsider in a tough cohesive outfit that didn't want him.

[@Zak6959]

I’m sure stories will change throughout time, but this is what we have to live with for the time being. And your video. I can’t micromanage history. Just ask Cesar, Cleopatra, Einstein, etc..

[@Hellbender21]

Yale, Westpoint, officer, Switzerland,. Pretty much sums up the "military industrial complex" problem we have.

[@servicewerx6768]

I rototilled gardens for very many ww2 vets in 1975... im now 65... n they mostly all told me the war sucked n they wanted to move along!!!

[@Daveinstthomas5212]

It was not British crews, it was Cdn Engineers. From 7th Cdn RCE boat sqn. They are now members of the Elgins in St Thomas Ontario

[@War_And_Truth]

Thanks for the correction. That went a little beyond my probing.

[@Toondude1959]

Yeah War is Hell until you live or survive it .From a combat veteran.

[@thomasgentry9624]

Band of Brothers, movie and book, are great stories with mostly truth, but some theatrical notes added in. Read Killer Angels, or watch the movie Gettysburg. Mostly true, but presented in a way

[@macmcleod1188]

Well, we also know that eyewitnesses are not accurate after even a few years. DNA showed we were sending innocent people to prison. I'm sure Easy Company didn't like him. We have hard data Dike was shot in the shoulder at Foy.

[@zachmartin1458]

Now if you could do a series on Bob McDade, battalion commander at LZ Albany in Vietnam, that would be great.

[@War_And_Truth]

I have made a note of it. I love any good war story from any war.

[@hemihead001]

Wow , the number of misrepresentations and outright lies that come with this series are tragic . I wonder how many other characters were glorified undeservingly ?

[@War_And_Truth]

Keep watching, Ill be presenting all of their stories.

[@garyowen9044]

BOB is a padded out, fictional, account of real life events, with real life characters. They said things they never said, did things they never did, and were in places they never were. If only twenty-five percent is accurate, it’s a win. In that it is a scripted television series, it is required to have bad guys, and all the villains can’t be German.

[@jimkilloran9038]

When is the military going to issue some type of DE&I medal/ribbon. Bet ya I can guess what it will look like!

[@-_-----]

"Sounds Good" "You guys handle things here. I'm gonna to talk to regiment." 😐

[@Idahoguy10157]

By late 1944 the American army infantry replacement system in Europe wasn’t working. Green new guys showed up in veteran unit where they quickly became casualties after getting up front.

[@KillrMillr7]

We shouldn’t beat up these men to bad, who showed a sign of weakness in combat. Most will never know that horror, much less being in command of men in battle. Death has no friends.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

One can be a good officer and have courage under fire, but still be a bad commander. Those things are not mutually exclusive. Being a company commander is hard and not everyone is suited for it. I dare say the majority of Army officers are not suited for being an infantry company commander. And all armies have different takes on this. Indeed, as the poster probably knows, in the German Army they understood the temperament differences in officers and made the best of it by understanding a good staff officer is as valuable, if not even more so, as a field commander. In the German Army they were of the opinion that it was better to fit officers to their strengths rather than run everyone through with varying success. Contrary to American practice, the Germans put their middling officers in field commands and put the best and brightest in staff positions. In fact, there is a whole rubric for officers the Prussians/Germans used, developed by Field Marshal von Moltke the Elder for the Prussian Army and roughly as follows: 1) The non-industrious intelligent man makes a perfect field commander to the Regimental level because his traits are best used motivating men and overcoming resistance. Because he is lazy, he often finds expeditious solutions but generally won't interfere in planning. He arrives when he is needed and never before and can win a battle. 2) The industrious and intelligent men make the best Staff Officers and especially Chiefs of Staff. These men are meticulous and thinkers, not unlike von Moltke or von Rundstadt. These men win campaigns, maybe wars. On the other hand the two worst sorts of officers are 3) The lazy and unintelligent. These men actually make fair formation leaders, but most of the time it is best to put them in training commands or in other places they can do no harm. They neither add much, nor detract much from an army. Indeed, on occasion, with the right guidance, they may be useful. Finally, 4) The most dangerous man in any army (or government) is the Industrious and stupid man. These officers should be separated from the Army as soon as possible. These men lose battles, campaigns and wars.

[@89128]

Prior to the US Army's reforms of 1903, the top 6% of each West Point graduating class were slotted into staff positions at various army Hqs. There they got the lions shares of promotions, often not seeing any action in the field. The Spanish-American War of 1899-1900 laid bare the shortcomings of this arrangement with many staff officers being incompetent in the field. Roosevelt saw this and made wholesale changes along with his Secretary of War, Wood. One of the biggest changes was the rotation of line and staff officers. However, even in WW1 staff officers got the majority of promotions. General Marshal vowed to put an end to that practice and did when he became Chief of Staff.

[@kenandbarbie-b6c]

@@89128Officers do know how to promote themselves & cover up their own mistakes & the mistakes of peer officers. I am a firsthand witness to this.

[@RANDALLBRIGGS]

@@89128 Elihu Root and William Howard Taft were TR's Secretaries of War. Leonard Wood was Army Chief of Staff from 1910 to 1914, serving under Taft and Wilson.

[@89128]

@@RANDALLBRIGGS My error with Wood, thinking of Root but typed the wrong name. Thanks

[@johnking6406]

Well, the FACT that the man did these TWO acts of heroism cannot be denied. Having been in the Army myself, I know it can get "clique'ish" and my guess is that Dike got on the bad side of Winters and some of the men at Easy Company. It's possible that this could explain the strange "disconnect" between him and the men of Easy Co. The long walks and disappearances were probably just means of avoiding them and haivng to deal with them. By the time the fight for Foy came around, who knows? Maybe he just didn't give enough of a damn for Easy Co., as he had other units he'd served with. IF that's the case, then the blame goes as much to the men of Easy Co, as to Dike himself. As for Stephen Ambrose? Well everybody already knows, he's a BULLS#1T artist and hardly worthy of the title "historian" so who knows what to believe about that mess of a show, or the book for that matter.

[@War_And_Truth]

Agree. Well said

[@ariochiv]

In the show, after the battle at Foy they have a shot of Webb on the ground who was killed by a sniper, and he looks a lot like Dike. This is followed closely by Perconte asking "Is it true about Dike?" and since we don't ever see him again it's very easy to conclude that he had been killed.

[@War_And_Truth]

I think that confused a lot of people

[@gingerbreadman6657]

I think he was asking if Dike froze up during the attack on foy. And relieved as company commander.

[@MysticalDragon73]

The 7 minute mark, of course they wouldnt have wanted dyke or any other replacement in the bootcamp. if I recall correctly they had sobel come in later into the bootcamp wheras winters was there from the start so there would be the resentment towards sobel that would be seen on film. They did the same in saving private ryan with ryan. Its a smart and understandable move. Sadly like with anything there are some creative liberties taken at times. Or they are going off the perceptions of people. They even alluded to this near the end where so many who were there told the actor playing dyke that he did well, yet there was one that dissented and said he wasnt as bad as that. Maybe for e him he wasnt but to the others he was. Wish the audio quality of this was better.

[@War_And_Truth]

Yes unfortunately the original audio was not great.

[@charlesgantz5865]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. But Sobel was in command of Easy Company, presumably doing the necessary organization, before there were any other men in it. Winters and the rest came in later.

[@MysticalDragon73]

@@charlesgantz5865 I was clearly talking about the actors bootcamp and referred to them in character as they were referred to during that camp.

[@charlesgantz5865]

@@MysticalDragon73 Ok. Like I said, I was not sure what you were saying.

[@markwilliams2620]

​​@@MysticalDragon73 No, you didn't clearly refer to the actors boot camp. You wrote "bootcamp". If you're going to be condescending be accurate.

[@cammurray255]

I absolutely love band of brothers and is one of favourite pieces of media ever created, but you just can't ignore how fucking blatantly disrespectful the writers were to some of these men. Sure, people like Sobel and Dyke weren't perfect soldiers, but shit none of them were. Nobody on the planet watched band of brothers with the means of enjoying character dramas, so why the fuck did these writers portray characters who were literally war heroes in such a way as to create character drama? It's so unbelievably disrespectful.

[@11B3P]

Bronze star W/O V device is an ARCOM after Mario captures the mushroom.

[@georgesouthwick7000]

No disrespect to Winters, but it appears that he was inclined to show those he liked, such as Nixon in a better light, overlooking his faults, and showing those for which he had a personal dislike, such as Dike in a more negative light. The fact that Dike received a Bronze Star in Holland demonstrates that he was not a coward, as Winters would have one believe.

[@littleguy6753]

The military has always been about friends & popularity. I saw popular people get awards for things they didn't do and unpopular people get nothing for extremely hard work. It ain't right but that's how it is. A good example in the show is the South Philly connection between Guarneer & Babe and how fast Babe gets accepted while the other new guys get treated like new guys.

[@MSP_MSP358]

Peter did do an amazing job

[@gregorybrennan8539]

This is an inaccurate portrayal period. Lt. Dike was shot, shot in the arm, and was in shock. The platoon seargent failed! kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2aukJyGpdaqa6csi=FgBjSvAQNOviSQkp

[@DavidGelinas-b6q]

Sounds Like he had a little PTSD. Not a coward but fried. Every one has a breaking point, sooner than others.

[@davidhanson3568]

This is it in a nutshell. Men like Winters, Spiers, Lipton or Malarkey were simply able to absorb a great deal more stress and violence and still function as leaders while Dike and others hit that overload point sooner; even after initially performing well. PTSD strikes combat soldiers at different times and in different ways.

[@andysheepleton]

Other countries do a much better job of not putting in replacement personnel in an existing unit. Combining existing units or breaking up a depleted unit and having it's members play a leadership role in multiple new units is much less prone to cause battle fatigue and mental problems. When you are fighting the enemy and being treated like an undesirable outsider by fellow soldiers there is a huge potential for problems. When breaking apart the unit that does not even need to be permanent as long as enough exposure to other troops has occurred to allow group cohesion when the unit is reformed with outsiders who are familiar with and respected by some of the Units members.

[@ptommo1543]

He was there. Dike was still a hero. He was there, not everyone is a badass. Stop disrespecting him.

[@11B3P]

If you’ve ever been in close contact with the enemy, you know that naked feeling. It’s as if every square inch of your body is exposed to direct fire from the enemy. It’s terrible. It’s horrible. It’s almost beyond comprehension if you’ve been there and done that then you know what I’m talking about. Some very good people, some absolutely horribly despicable people can function clearly. Sometimes you’re the one at the tip of the spear sometimes you’re praying to God that you don’t have to do that again it is humanity push to its very limits and if all you have a background is fist fighting that you have no idea, if you’ve never saddled up with a group of well, armed men to go find another group of well, armed men and through superior fire power destroy them eliminate life from their body then you just don’t know. This fight would be a dream compared to the horror of combat if you’ve been there and you didn’t run, congratulations if you have been there and you did run well that’s what you did and you’ll have to live with it. But no man can judge another combat is not natural while a fistfight may be natural. Have a great day. Do you ever ask yourself why the sky is blue

[@Idkwhatsupwithyou]

Lt Dike was a hero, wounded in battle of the bulge. Band of Brother was written by an author who only listened to the accounts of a select group. That’s how they screwed up with Blythe too, and got sued.

[@GravesRWFiA]

I would say Dike was probably a personally brave man, his medals show that, but he was a failure as a LEADER.

[@War_And_Truth]

My recent Norman Dike biography - kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZTUmaWGba96aK8

[@handimanjay6642]

The bronze star is handed out to just about every officer that serves in a combat zone.

[@Fatherofheroesandheroines]

I knew many officers like Dike. Brave but a horrible leader.

[@charlesdavenport6094]

This discussion has dampened my enthusiasm for the book and TV production; but let's have the discussion nevertheless

[@2104dogface]

So per all the 506th paperwork, AAR's morning reports LT. Dike wasn't hit their nothing having him listed as wounded. Clancy Lyall said he saw him bleeding BUT Clancy was not near him during the attack

[@War_And_Truth]

Do you have the 506th action reports for Bastogne?

[@2104dogface]

@@War_And_Truth i was in E/506th Reenacted back in the day spent time with many of the Easy Co vets. as for the AAR's me ,no but i know who does have copies , he spent alot of time with the men of Easy esp Maj Winters. he's working on a 4 book series on Easy ,and also runs the "Path of Easy Company Tour" and also the podcast "We're Not Lost Privet "

[@War_And_Truth]

@@2104dogface Well that is going against all known history. I'm going through a lot of Winters memoirs at the moment so may be he will mention it somewhere.

[@2104dogface]

So having been in E/506th Reenacted back before the series was even made in the early 90's . i mean i spent more time drinking with Wild Bill & Babe along with Jack Agnew from the "Filthy 13" we got alot of stories that never made any of the books or series. along with heckling and Babe singing and bill yelling at him to learn a new song lol

[@War_And_Truth]

@@2104dogface That would have been something.

[@richardthomas3056]

Stephan Ambrose’s books are all riddles with errors. Sloppy errors. Fun reads but pretty crappy history.

[@RANDALLBRIGGS]

Yes, Ambrose was a fine writer, but a sloppy historian in his later years. His book on the building of the Transcontinental Railroad, published 2 years before his death, is full of errors.

[@einmanndergeschichteliebt1760]

He was a brave soldier (the series made him look like a coward, but he wasn't a good commanding officer. His experience in the Netherlands may have made him a little cautious (This may be why he got his nickname, Foxhole Norman).

[@johnmanier9047]

The series should have given a more balanced view of Sobel and Dyke. Sure show the negative view of the soldiers but also show their other side

[@cyberkraft8005]

Well said. The portrayals fairly one-dimensional, “one-man’s-opinion & gossip vantage point.

[@scubasteve-zr1cv]

I think the harsh judgement against Dike as foxhole Norman is a little unfair. Yeah, I wasn't there, but if I had almost no ammo to spare and the enemy was armored/mechanized, I would not be assaulting. Dike and the Officers likely knew relief was coming and were holding the line until it came. The young men of a combat unit are known to be belligerent, and to seek fights, it's in their training. Sometimes, you have to temper that, and it sounds to me that's what needed to happen.

[@garrycoates2147]

Liked Band of Brothers. I have problem with using the real names of people then not being factually correct on their actions and outcomes.

[@flyoverkid55]

When you come into a unit with a strong history and connections, your every move and word are scrutinized. All the more so if you're the new C.O. It was imperative that Dike set an example, and the example he set was one of an elitist. His contacts were at regiment, he wasn't a solid tactician nor was he a leader. While he may have been a good soldier, his job was that of an infantry company commander. To say that he didn't succeed at that position is an understatement.

[@ethanperks372]

Sobol was awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart for his actions on D-Day and the following days. You wouldn't know that from Band of Brothers. Dike showed gallantry in action twice. Could it be that men like them just aren't cut out to be leaders in combat. especially in Platoon/Company levels where your contact with the men under command is personal?

[@War_And_Truth]

I know of only one Bronze Star (Normandy). Do you know of another?

[@ethanperks372]

@@War_And_Truth I had thought it was one for each of two actions. If not I stand corrected!

[@ethanperks372]

@@War_And_Truth I went back to check. I got his "CIB" mistaken for a second Bronze Star. Thanks for the correction.

[@ethanperks372]

@@War_And_Truth I edited to correct. Thanks.

[@dakotalucky13]

Sounds like he had ptsd. Makes a lot of sense. Sucks being shuffled around to guys you dont know.

[@War_And_Truth]

Winters stated in his Bastogne memoirs that Dike indeed had PTSD.

[@rc59191]

I dont pay bronze stars much credence unless they have a v device on them. I gotta take Major Winters word for what happened if he said the guy was a bad officer then I got no reason to doubt his word. I was only an Airman and didn't endure a fraction of what those guys did.

[@pabloescabar1038]

We are called Paratroopers, not parachutists!

[@War_And_Truth]

I was quoting a veteran (not sure why he used that term) and I didn't want to change the wording.

[@banhammer7243]

I always felt Dike got a bit of a raw deal in the show (even before knowing his actions that earned medals). Buck Compton finally broke (I mean no disrespect to the man) and got a pass Dike broke and he seemed to be bad guy no. 1.

[@alberttrevino1375]

I know they left a lot of Ambrose book out due to movie cuts, budget etc... But I highly doubt you could make almost an entire company dislike you for no reason. And after serving over two decades in the Army. I saw my fair share of officers receiving awards they damn sure didn't deserve. So even if Ambrose may have embellished their distaste & hate for Dike. It sounds like he earned it by his own actions. He may have only earned some of the awards or none. Or maybe he or someone else "EMBELLISHED" their written accounts for his awards. Maybe he was only a hero when he wanted to be. Either way, if you're a good leader and a good man. You don't end up pissing off the bulk of your company.

[@War_And_Truth]

Complicated character by the sounds of it. Really though, Paratroopers expected their officers to lead from the front. Even division commanders jumped into Normandy and Holland with the rest of the men. One thing I don't understand is why Dike would come in and run the company when Harry Welsh had served as Company XO since before Normandy. Dike probably should have led a platoon. He must have had friends in high positions (maybe even Sink)

[@alberttrevino1375]

@@War_And_Truth Exactly. Or maybe even Sink couldn't stop the power of his connections. Either way, when I served my six years with the 3-187th INF with the 101st ABN DIV. Our LT's and CO's were as you said. Always knee deep with us every step of the way. I think he was probably portrayed correctly for the majority of his time with Easy Co. His place was with his men, period. And to be able to piss off officers, NCO's and the lower enlisted as a whole overall? You had to be some kind of real special turd for the majority of the time.

[@Dal-l7i]

Is any part of that damn story true, it seem Ambrose was on a mission to put everyone in the worse light. Maybe Norman Dike just made an error do to lake of training or maybe he was having a nervous breakdown which many did or was close too doing?

[@pete6705]

Not that I have any idea what it’s like to be in war. But if they put me in charge of a company, and I didn’t think I was qualified, I’d like to think I’d just admit it and say I’m not ready. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for getting guys K’d

[@robertvermaat2124]

In the show I indeed concluded Dike was killed!

[@granitejeepc3651]

Whats up with all lets hang out with friends stuff in these books and interviews----I served during operations and yes you had chow together and some free time but this: -im gonna go over this area to hang out ---aint a thing during operations----maybe at a fixed camp---but definetly not in the field---- BUT -----I dont care what your careeer direction is-----if your in an opertaional unit in any role---that should be your focus---otherwise you get people hurt, killed or fail in your mission....

[@RUHappyATM]

LOL, the person I didn't like was Gonorrhoea.

[@War_And_Truth]

I haven't really studied Guarnere yet so will be interesting to see what I find.

[@RUHappyATM]

@@War_And_Truth Maybe it's just the actor protraying him, smirking all the time. Creepy.

[@jimmyb4728]

Sobel served in Korea not Dyke, and i think he was awarded a Bronze Star

[@War_And_Truth]

After World War II, Dike remained with the US Army Reserve and served during the Korean War, becoming a lieutenant colonel until resigning in 1957.

[@jimmyb4728]

@WorldWarTruth I'm aware of that, all I said is Dyke didn't serve in Korea, but Sobel did, and, he won a Bronze Star.

[@War_And_Truth]

@@jimmyb4728 Dike and Sobel both served in Korea. Also you are spelling his name wrong (maybe that's why you cant find him serving in Korea)

[@jeffswin]

Lots of excuses for poor leadership. Lets not forget that Buck Compton was not an original Taccoa guy either.

[@jimmyhinzy575]

I am starting think it’s all a bunch of bs made up by the survivors. There is no doubt they fought well, just not believing all the hate toward certain officers based on accounts by these survivors. Dike already had a bronze star, yet he comes to easy and isn’t liked. Sounds a lot like petty bs by Winters and Lipton. And I think you are right,if you came to this unit and wasn’t liked by whoever, you were on the outs. Probably why most of the new guys were injuries or killed because you didn’t do D-Day or Toccoa. My two cents worth.

[@servicewerx6768]

Yup!!

[@War_And_Truth]

You definitely had to be on Winters right side.