Life after Capitalism

"Capitalism is broken. The relentless pursuit of more has delivered climate catastrophe, social inequality and financial instability - and left us ill-prepared for life in a global pandemic. Tim Jackson’s passionate and provocative book dares us to imagine a world beyond capitalism - a place where relationship and meaning take precedence over profits and power. Post Growth is both a manifesto for system change and an invitation to rekindle a deeper conversation about the nature of the human condition."
Rob Johnson talks with Jackson about his new book, "Post Growth: Life after Capitalism," and how we might break free of the cycle of restrictive thinking which has plagued economics, and the world.
Learn more at politybooks.com/bookdetail/?i...

[@ProgressiveTruthSeekers]

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." ~Henry Ford

[@aethelwolfe3539]

“The Central Banks are Killing Me,” Then “ I killed the Central Banks,” Andrew Jackson. Central Banks are not capitalism free markets, they are serf makers.

[@ProgressiveTruthSeekers]

@@aethelwolfe3539 You are referring to the "THEORY" of capitalism, not the REALITY of capitalism. There are no moral clauses to the concept of capitalism. It's driven by the wealthy elites, that will ultimately control the currency system and the government and therefore control direction of the flow of wealth.

[@eroceanos]

It’s the interest, why bankers own the world…

[@Rnankn]

Debt-based monetarism and currency growth are corruptions of market principles; these are a financialization of capitalism. But market-based society without banks or money would be problematic and unsustainable. The commodification of social life and natural systems would erode their foundations through objectification, consumption and disposal. The structure of competition would ensure this would expand and could not be deviated from. Markets are only viable on a small-scale, with surplus household production at a local “market”. It must be bounded within nature, society and economy.

[@luisinharamos]

Market Dictatorship.

[@renovatio93]

Techno-feudalism is where its going

[@ika5666]

Techno-totalitarian oligarchic feudalism would probably be more precise, but I understand what you mean and share your perception of the pity tendencies.

[@IosuamacaMhadaidh]

"You will own nothing, and be happy..." ~some Davos douchbag

[@ika5666]

@@IosuamacaMhadaidh I tried to add his name here starting from Sch*** and got the post evaporated. The rest is ***wab. This is how THEY operate to impose their ways on us.

[@IosuamacaMhadaidh]

@@ika5666 yup, I've heard and seen it before.

[@amandap9332]

@@IosuamacaMhadaidh we could own nothing and be happy. However, that would require that everyone owned nothing. Which we could absolutely do. Private property is a scam against humanity. Almost as big a scam as monetary systems. What we need to do is switch to a resource based economy. No monetary systems at all. The continued use of monetary systems will always lead to this point in society. Why haven't we figured that out yet???? We have the benefit of seeing what monetary systems have done in thousands of years of history. And yet, we keep using them as if some magical force will somehow make them equitable. That, my friend, is mass insanity. Check out the venus project to see what im talking about.

[@compassioncampaigner728]

Growth. In my business, there was a relentless and merciless pressure for more sales...more accounts...more cold calls....more more more..........growth. Legitimate growth wasn't there or available but the "suits" didn't want to hear it, so selling retailers more than they need or stuff they didn't need or stuff they couldn't sell.......was the only option. Unlimited growth is a fantasy and a vehicle for empiric destruction.

[@leftykeys6944]

Unlimited growth is like a cancer. In this context, cancer of the spirit, cancer of a culture.

[@usuario2967]

for a single company it means economic domination of a market or making of a monopoly, "growth" in the sence here is more about the idea that poverty must be fought with unlimited growth, that is never achieved and so never reached a point when people must stop and really do something about it, but yeah, its insane in both cases

[@compassioncampaigner728]

@@leftykeys6944 Fully agree

[@peggyfranzen6159]

Good business is developed by one's own morals.

[@peggyfranzen6159]

@@leftykeys6944 Unlimited growth, what is that? What does that mean? At some point when the debt out ways the income, the principal should be paid.

[@sebastienleblanc5217]

This is a subtlety but I think it is important. Buddhism does not say "everything is suffering" or "life is suffering". The first noble truth is "there is suffering" and then the other truths also say "there is well being" and tell about the origins of suffering and the practices aimed at reducing it.

[@ika5666]

Ban it, cancel it, call it racists, and delete it from the media space, and you "will have nothing and be happy". This is the solution of preachers of leftie-globalist-great-reset-fascism imposed on us together with the president-unelect.

[@angelozachos8777]

@@ika5666 Someone gets it ! 👍✌️

[@danthemansmail]

@@ika5666 You were a slave long before Trump....And there is nothing leftist at all about the Corporate Capitalists and their agenda for global domination. None at all.......

[@ika5666]

@@danthemansmail You don't know much beyond marxist leaflets, do you? It has been even institutionalized in nazi germany and fascist italy, and only brainwashed lefties still think it was right, but it was not right at all, it was emerging from the left and integrating with corporate capitalists, and this is where demmies, socialist demmies and all kinds of sponsored left activism dummies of the antidemocratic party, and their corporate money bags, and the censored neototalitarian media brainwashers are leading America to now, 90 years later.

[@danthemansmail]

@@ika5666 You blame the brainwashed...for being brainwashed. Just because the damn corporate capitalist sugarcoat their greed, exploitation, and utter lack of morals or ethics with a patina of liberal wokeism, doesn't change who rules or what their agenda is...and none of it has anything remotely left about it. Zero. Null.

[@HillbillyHippyOG]

I’d buy the book in a heartbeat if there were any chance the millionaire, neoliberal economist I live would read it. He won’t. 5 years of debating economic philosophy with him has only proven the old maxim that economics advances “one funeral at a time.” Ego is a formidable foe.

[@barbarasmith6005]

Do you live with this guy?

[@zantecarroll4448]

Love max plank

[@blairhakamies4132]

What is the thing on becoming billionaire that attracts you? What are things that you do not have and billionaires have? 🤣

[@HillbillyHippyOG]

@@blairhakamies4132Answer to your first question is: I have no desire to become a millionaire, let alone a billionaire. In fact, as quickly as I give away what little I have, I doubt I am capable of becoming either. Answer to your second question is: Resources, freedom, and impunity. Freedom is just the right to die unless you have the resources necessary for life. And... laws are subjective based on wealth. The simplest example is that a $200 ticket for speeding is inconsequential to a billionaire. A $50 million wrongful death judgement is inconsequential to a billionaire if they truly wish an individual dead. But... who needs to pay money like that when you can just buy government officials. 😉

[@blairhakamies4132]

@@HillbillyHippyOG OK. Thank you for educating about your view.

[@MsKariSmith]

I could never understand the relentless pursuit of business & people of profit and money. No matter who or what...there is never ever enough. Greed is a terrible goal of anyone or any business to have. There can never be real happiness and peace with this kind of mindset. Only isolation and unhappiness can result...as you can see in countries ruled by capitalism.

[@eldiegoasecas]

lmao

[@danthemansmail]

Tell that to a sociopath....or Diego.....

[@compassioncampaigner728]

@@eldiegoasecas ...........said the drooling hyena

[@aliwright1016]

My fave chat for ages...thanks. No longer can we put a price tag on what people need. If humanity wants to make it..we must prioritise health, well being + the planet 💟🌳

[@ayeone3870]

The planet doesn't give a fcuk about you

[@dorisdoris9842]

One way to break free of the fear of death is to imagine the horror of endless life and the emotional and intellectual burden that suggests. What is condemnable is not inevitable fear and even suffering, but useless, and avoidable fear and suffering that is entirely human made. There is plenty of the good stuff to go round for all, but we have been habituated and addicted to the " a rising tide, raises all boats" BS, and really seem to believe that were it not for billionaires and brutal competition and cruel deprivation for many, the standard of living for the rest would go down even further. Life is a gift, as are unique human talents, to be enjoyed and celebrated by all. That is the meaning of life.

[@BalthasarRodellega]

Thank you!

[@lindalnd90]

Amen

[@VidarrKerr]

Living forever, beyond infinity, would truly be hell. I can imagine, at some point, going to "sleep" would be very appealing.

[@AnaMartinez-ip6xb]

Excellent, profound, inspiring and positive conversation that made me think of the economy, our society and our planet through a spiritual lense.. Very interesting insights

[@thomasd2444]

46:23 - Book The Lost Art of Heart Navigation: A Modern Shaman’s Field Manual by Jeff D. Nixa J.D. M.Div. PB - 17 OCT 2017

[@tomt55]

Terrific discussion. I think we need our ask ourselves how can we make it, as a society and species, with profit seeking seeking as the primary goal? Re orienting our thinking to put people and planet first is the only way forward.

[@ika5666]

These pseudointellectuals will lead to no other alternative than a neo-totalitarian one which wastes not only the nature but also human lives, millions of, always.

[@pinkpearl1967]

We won't. We will crash and the only people to squeak through will be the few remaining hunter-gatherer societies.

[@eldiegoasecas]

if i check the last millenia of trading-based (as in profit-driven) economies i'd say we can make it pretty good

[@johnmoorhouse1455]

The debates over. We go extinct. Post capitalism will happen when nature decides she ain't cashing the bogus cheques any longer. Keep it up I say, better off hitting the wall at 200 Km than 60

[@BeefT-Sq]

" What collectivists refuse to recognize is that it is in the self-interest of every businessman to have a reputation for honest dealings and a quality product. " -Alan Greenspan-

[@ProgressiveTruthSeekers]

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." ~John Maynard Keynes

[@DesertSky928]

Spoken like a true leftist sack of evil, pea dough file sht! Fck Keynes! Austrian Economics are what's practiced by communists / socialists WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING....JUST ASK BERNIE SELL-OUT SANDERS!

[@dmc2085]

Keynes has done more to empower and enrich the elite than almost anyone else in the 20th Century.

[@vcushite2905]

Great quote by, John Maynard Keynes. And he's 100 percent correct!

[@TheSeekersofTruth]

John Maynard Keynes made a very profound comment and totally true!

[@ausarcushite]

People are learning this now more than ever!

[@patshelby9285]

I am grateful to all who helped bring these thoughts to the attention of us all.

[@ika5666]

empty thoughts...

[@nevadataylor]

@@ika5666 Are you a capitalist? That would explain your empty thoughts. MIght want to try Science, as it cuts through all belief based bullshit.

[@watching99134]

Fascinating insight at the very end about how the fear and trauma that came in the wake of the Thirty Years' War in Europe may have contributed to the Cartesian split (mind-body, but maybe also thought and feelings? As Horace Walpole said, "The world is a comedy to those who think but a tragedy to those who feel".)

[@looperant]

This is one of the most empty videos I've listened to given the grand title of 'life after capitalism'. And ending on something like the Prince's trust as a way forward pretty well says it all - armchair academics massaging each other's egos and trying to fix the fittings on the Titanic as it goes down.

[@drakekoefoed1642]

you tube put it on while i was nodding. all this marvelous insight into nothing.

[@aethelwolfe3539]

Remember this is soros drivel crap.

[@yupisaid]

I haven't even begun watching it but I like your comment, "fix the fittings on the Titanic as it goes down" perfectly sums up just about every so-called thinker or academic nowadays. They're all a bunch of sophists, they haven't investigated the philosophical assumptions that lie at the core of all this crap, and I bet they'd never be willing to fully commit to abandoning or changing them.

[@IosuamacaMhadaidh]

Wow. I'm 2.5 minutes in, and caught a glimpse of your quick review. I'm already on to something else. Cheers! This vid is a waste of time.

[@rickydee5863]

I prefure polish the brass on the titanic as it goes down but thanks for the warning .at least i didnt waste half an hour on this one

[@rodolfomaggisasso6088]

beutiful and deep intelectual conversation! Thanks for all the inspiration it brings to many of us!..

[@DennisCambly]

Nature has given us two ears, two eyes, and but one tongue. To the end that we should hear and see more than we speak - Socrates

[@ika5666]

Some people have either nothing or just propaganda rubbish in between their ears, unfortunately.

[@HillbillyHippyOG]

“Dark Night of the Soul” is the shaman’s or enlightened persons term for that “hell” they go through to reach greater enlightenment.

[@AudioPervert1]

What hoodwink. It's called Late Capitalism. Yet, extinction and global warming will smash us all... Provocative books huh? Still wanting to make money while facing extinction. Human folly is endless.

[@mumblerocks77]

@@AudioPervert1 Okay, why are you on youtube then? Why don't you pack off and become a Buddhist monk or live in the forest or something?

[@julsius]

@@mumblerocks77 tbf the state owns all the forests. (at least where i live). even if u wanted to go all Ted Kazinsky and be a hermit in the forests, theyd just point a gun at you thesedays and throw you in gaol. Australia is run as a convict colony.

[@nunyabidnis3815]

That also sounds a lot like a justification of someone who had what could be a lucky break, and attributing it to something spiritual or destined. In many cases, you know what's after rock bottom? More rock bottom. After that? Sometimes just death.

[@HillbillyHippyOG]

@@nunyabidnis3815 That is very true. Yet a large community of people claim to have personal stories that all BEGIN when the dark night of the soul is finally conquered. As someone living with a nearly life-long, low-grade depression, I can personally attest to the fact that it is the end of all suffering. It’s the most freeing experience to let go of all concerns and expectations and just exist in the moment.

[@siriuslyspeaking9720]

When the culture and the schools, cater to consumption and narcissism, what chance do high ideals have of becoming the norm? Where are the models of a humanistic cooperative community? If they exist anywhere in the world, they need to be promoted, more so than rhetoric and theory.

[@davidpeppers551]

Be careful with that word hope. Does it mean that there is a desired result which may still happen? There is always hope on being able to really live the moment, but a "good outcome" for us against Climate Chaos? Do not put hope in that. Don't stop making things better, but don't let the chances of "success" determine the action. If it is right and just, then it must be done.

[@peggyfranzen6159]

Free enterprising individuals, or capitalism should not be associated with corruption.That is a complete stereotype. All individuals have free will to decide for themselves whether to choose to be decent toward another in business, or to choose to be indecent, cheat, steal, and be dishonest.

[@davidpeppers551]

@@peggyfranzen6159 Constant growth with no recognition of limits causes a lot of harm. It is perused relentlessly by capitalists in the system. Grow or die! Economy depends the environment, but we forever hear economists and other proponets lecture environmentalists and others who are concerned, that the economy must grow or we cannot do any preservation or protection of the environment. Extract now pay later. Also, corruption of thought or action will inevitably happen to some degree when there are great disparities in power. The corruption happens on both ends. You don't have to be " bad" to be corrupted. A friend once tried to console me, " its hard to stand up to your boss." The more you need a job, the more difficult it is to resist the immoral and unethical actions required by your employer. If you can't afford to just walk away, then you may do what you are told. If you're competition cuts corners, then how long will you survive being honest? If there is vibrant, sufficiently strong check on bad actors then, your probably okay playing honest. Otherwise,...........

[@danthemansmail]

Hope without a plan is called a wish.....

[@richardfinlayson1524]

Excellent, hit the nail right on the head.

[@iamhere1101]

With all due respect, in the first few minutes of your discussion around “limits,” I think you neglect to account for the simple fact that not everyone has yet attained a level of standard of living - as even the two of you sitting comfortably sweatered and cozy in your villas. And thus, this will…and must happen first before any realistic talk of how to proceed forward “sustainably.” Whilst the vast majority of this planets inhabitants have not even begun to come close to a point that is “comfortable,” it is naive to think that the rest should superimpose upon those others to “get it right” as it were.

[@iamhere1101]

Moreover, you claim that we “all” have simultaneously learned deep and meaningful lessons from going through this “pandemic” together. I beg to differ mightily. Just the opposite. How did we let this happen - particularly to our economy as you say is very revealing because here’s the truth: “Covid didn’t happen TO us…Covid happened BECAUSE of us.” -GM. And until those “vast majority” (spoken of above) accept accountability for that, nothing…and I mean NOTHING will change - for them especially.

[@kamakatewhare8245]

I agree with this

[@pinkpearl1967]

THIS. I only made it to the 10 minute mark. Listening to two comfortable older white men talk as if post-capitalism is an interesting thought exercise and not a life-or-death crisis (though to be fair I think both do realize that it is a crisis). They are likely to cruise through their remaining years, thus the lack of urgency in their conversation. Those of us with 30, 50, 80 more years to go are staring down some very heavy shtt. We need solutions and actions NOW.

[@kamakatewhare8245]

@@pinkpearl1967 you do realise you're arguing to the contrary of OP's comment?

[@yupisaid]

@@pinkpearl1967 Nice how you manage to couch what you're saying in an implicitly anti-white way. You're just as lost as these two fools.

[@SlackKeyPaddy]

Spiritual Initiation is the process of burning out the dross out of the personality , ripping off the blinders of social conditioning and learning to integrate the Shadow Personality . The 'Matrix' enslavement holds us back from our human potential. Initiation brings spiritual gold 'Wisdom' into the community and society , for their healing.

[@MrSpectaman]

Keeping the money in circulation to a low level isnt good. For example, millions of seniors are living solely on social security. Their income is enough for necessities. They arent dead yet, maybe they would like a new car or might want to move to a nice apartment or house. All seniors should be able to afford a new car, but the monetary system makes them paupers. And dont even get me started on how the working poor are treated.

[@billytheweasel]

Yes. Since "Idiocracy" is a documentary now in America I just have very little hope.

[@cambriawellness3102]

Of course,this is a consideration, and most seniors can't bike or haul groceries from a store to bus stop and home, but there are alternatives to cars, Uber, community busing that collects you from the store to your home. Besides, new cars have so much off-gasing, it's better to buy a car 5 years old that may have released these synthetic fumes from the interior.

[@drakekoefoed1642]

and someone will inherit the car anyway

[@peggyfranzen6159]

Read " Creature From Jekyll Island", or Adam Smith's " Wealth of Nations".

[@juhanleemet]

That is an excellent point: capitalism uses scarcity and competition (bidding?) to determine market price (as an estimate of "value"?), but as Yanis Varoufakis has pointed out "Capitalism has won! There is no more scarcity!" Therefore, as Mariana Mazzucato emphasizes we should go back to some other means of determining "value", because the price estimation no longer works! It ends up being a "race to the bottom": competition for market share resulting in undercutting and IMO also sacrificing aspects of value as a side effect.

[@meeshmosh888]

economic growth is at the cost of LIFE growth

[@VickiNikolaidis]

Beautiful discussion. Thank you.

[@laurengail9487]

Front line worker just given a .22 cent an hour raise. $10.22 an hour does align with a serfdom lifestyle. Change most start with trickel up. Corporate executives are not big spenders toward upsetting status quo. Still view from trickel down ideology.

[@richardfinlayson1524]

Gee that's pretty crummy

[@Quartermoon193]

I need to read this book

[@DarkMoonDroid]

16:52 "...the System values having the highest return with the lowest risk and the lowest amount of work." ~Dan Price

[@usuario2967]

Rob, please mute your microphone while the other person is speaking, breathing noises are always mixing with their voices

[@patharvard]

15 minutes in and the speaker has yet to make his case with evidence and statistics. He reminds me of Paul Erlich, of Stanford University, who wrote The Population Bomb in the 1970’s claiming that all our natural resources and food were about to run out in a decade and that over a billion people were soon destined to perish. He couldn't have been more wrong. Human ingenuity is the greatest natural resource that has always solved our existential challenges.

[@sagaravajra2965]

I hear in this discussion, an examination and criticism of the assumptions and founding values underpinning Free Market economics which reveals that the heart of Economics may never have been the objective science many of us have assumed it to be. It may be more based on articles of faith and other subjective factors that are not subject to evidence and statistics and therefore not objectively true. Elrich may have been wrong about the precise timing of his predictions (which are secondary to the main point of his writing, which is more importantly about a direction of travel.) There is a plethora of evidence suggesting that we have already crossed, or are close to crossing many interdependent planetary/environmental boundaries. And while human ingenuity may be one of our greatest resources. It seems we have significant limitations when it comes to responding to changes of an exponential nature (of which many of our environmental issues can be included) “The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” This is because, by the time we reach the exponential phase of a growth curve it is too late to do anything effective about it.

[@patharvard]

@@sagaravajra2965 Planet Earth and nature will endure and evolve, regardless of human miscalculations. Whatever percentage of the human species survive until the arrival of the next glacial period (ice age), will be severely challenged to survive. During future glacial periods, the Earth the oceans and nature will have the opportunity to revitalize themselves. When it comes to adapting to dramatic change, it's important to take the long view and the broadest perspective. Health and environmental catastrophes are inevitable and unavoidable, many are beyond the capabilities of even the smartest, well-meaning leaders and technologists to effectively address. Neither of the two conversants demonstrates a realistic vision of imperfection of human nature nor the psychopathology that is intrinsic to all power hierarchies--republican, democratic, capitalist, socialist, communist, anarchist, theocratic, technocratic--all of which are inevitably corrupted.

[@patharvard]

@@sagaravajra2965 Regarding the potency of human Innovation: just as whale oil replaced tallow candles and vegetable oil lamps, for indoor lighting, kerosene replaced whale oil, gas lamps replaced kerosene, tungsten lightbulbs replaced gas lamps, fluorescents replaced tungsten and LEDs have replaced most previous lighting technology, via natural free market forces. Prior to the petroleum revolution, the exponential destruction of the world’s whale population for lamp lighting and the exponential deforestation of virgin forests for heating and cooking fuel appeared immanent, inevitable and catastrophic. There is no telling how many solutions will arise to address seemingly impossible, seemingly catastrophic problems. We have many new energy and agricultural technologies, in development, that will transform the future.

[@patshelby9285]

@@patharvard I hope you are right. But I fear we are teetering on the edge, if not already past the point, when life as we know it may not survive to experience that renewal. Both Venus and Mars have seen more hospitable eons. Who knows if they ever had more earth like furnishings?

[@a.s.2426]

15 minutes in and even by the end of the video. Worse still, he never even clearly defines the problem in the first place. This was hugely disappointing. There might have been some good points to be made l on this side of the debate , it is just unfortunate that this side of the debate generally lacks clear, analytical thinkers.

[@lesleyanngoslett9774]

I was hoping for some insight into "Life after Capitalism"... Kind of a click bait title that forgot to divulge any insights at all, other than those many of us are already aware of - we need solutions discussed and debated...

[@cambriawellness3102]

Tomorrow our California Assembly members will vote on how much latitude our counties or neighborhoods will have with respect to the installation of fiveG small cell towers. These can be installed as close as 10feet from any home, and will emit 27 frequencies, that can travel one mile. So why is the FCC allowing a tower every block or so? There needs to be further Independent studies to conclude their impact upon humans, let alone insects and trees. Call the members of this board to Vote NO on SB 538 and AB 536. See ehtrust.org, or Americans for Responsible Technology.

[@dalcourg]

20:50 - "that the very people that we had stood on the doorstep to clap were the ones that we were not prepared to reward and didn't know how to reward..." That's not a we statement. Everybody doesn't cut checks to workers. A good start might be acknowledging that healthcare professionals have BEEN overworked, it's a culture...address the culture, compensate for overwork...but capitalism (as was acknowledged). I don't know why we, this is a we statement, play mental gymnastics to explain economically and socially what has happened, is happening, and will happen right before our eyes. We know the answers. We aren't ready to give up our bread crumbs that this society offers. I mean as the not so enlightened folk usually say - "iT cOuLd Be WoRsE" - as they highlight the fact that our first world bread crumbs are little bit better than the third world.

[@a.s.2426]

Seemed profound until I realized this video is vapid.

[@ika5666]

I am proud of you. If every American was so smart there would be no bidenista destroing the best republic on Earth in 2021.

[@01mustang05]

Actually the video is telling of the bad condition of humanity, as is your narrow minded comment.

[@ika5666]

@@01mustang05 Get the difference between narrow and sharp. Broadly speaking, the video speculates on the bad condition of humanity to stick the chewing gum of lefties narrow ideology into the uncombed hair of brainwashed heads of their followers.

[@01mustang05]

@@ika5666 There is NO so-called help - there's NO current help to fix corruption, child abuses, poisoning and damages; children are still being abused, neglected, damaged, tortured, manipulated, indoctrinated, poisoned, corrupted and more. The majority now can't or won't see the ugly truth they participate in and perpetuate - too much damage has occurred. But if you know what I'm talkin about (which I don't think you do by your other post) and actually have some good ideas about how to fix this shit show, then, ?

[@a.s.2426]

@@ika5666 I agree that a great word to use here is "speculates" -- particularly in so far as it is speculative to say that these specific effects are attributable to "capitalism" per se. More generally, my problem with the video is that it completely leaves out the great improvements to life since about 1750-1800 that can be attributed to "capitalism" (or, as I like to conceptualize it, a set of multiple trends, values, systems and practices which have manifested in a variety of combinations globally and that have come into broad prominent since then). Even if the things complained about are residual effects of the current "system", one needs to balance this fact with the fact that prior to the advent of the present system nearly 100% lived in abject poverty.

[@pazitor]

Political and economic theory must take into account the fact that neither empathy nor reason may be relied upon. All utopias are dystopian.

[@skreety0455]

Just wondering if Cyber warfare diminishes the sale of killer arms.....

[@RazziLuix]

The qualities of consuming have not renewed their deprivation loss.

[@nightoftheworld]

22:28 _This_ is the Christian Atheist experience-this is Hegel’s zero level, his point of madness we must go through to become more fully human.

[@BigMikeGuitar]

Condemning the function of economic systems to perform a function of structural violence will not end until economic systems no longer serve the ‘winner take all’ nature of self-interested human tribalism, and the self-interested state, where the ethnocentrism, monotheism, and ultra-nationalism endemic to a unique exceptionalistic tribal identity, and endemic to right-wing oligarchy and populism, i.e. white Christian nationalism (white supremacy), remains erected upon church-state system authoritarian institutional hierarchy, demonstrating militarism, religion, politics, economics, and culture, where each institution is required to make an authoritarian contribution to the authoritarian totality, either willingly or coerced. Within the contrived nation-state, emblematic of Western experiment liberalism and the faux-secularization of the church-state system, this self-interested tribal identity maintains hegemony through authoritarian hierarchy and structural violence, where oligarchy perceives the multiracial multicultural working class as an evil, morally deficit, subhuman out-group identity, deserving of lesser fates, and the systemic austerity and artificial scarcity that funnels wealth and resources back up to the rightful oligarchy owners of America, and to the national security state that defends them. This self-interested authoritarian tribal/state phenomenon can maintain this authoritarian hierarchy and structural violence through military dictatorship, theocracy, feudalism, and caste systems, where the “evolution” of capitalism is acquiring all of these characteristics. You can’t fix economics until you fix Homo sapiens; specifically the regressive reactionary authoritarian theocrats, including the liberal authoritarian technocrats.

[@Mdjagg]

Why can I understand all the words, but need to hear this again? I feel like the summary of this conversation could never explain the depth of the specific phrases used.

[@ayeone3870]

Because you're uneducated and unintelligent. These dudes are morons.

[@a.s.2426]

Interesting. I found that the words and structure of thoughts too loose to be pragmatically meaningful.

[@ayeone3870]

Honestly couldn't hear more than a minute or two. Brain auto filtered. Stopped at about 5. Like when toddlers are in the room.

[@Mdjagg]

@@ayeone3870 Yet you're the troll. Irony at its finest.

[@ayeone3870]

Lmao "Sounds like something an idiot would say"

[@mattja52]

Capitalism, like all systems, is only as good as the people who manage it. Adam Smith ( the Father of Economics ) told all in his book, the Wealth of Nations if read carefully, you will discern two words, self-interest, the invisible hand, most read over it. The Oracle, Gordon Gekko, "Greed is good."

[@01mustang05]

Since the majority of people aren't good then that explains a few things doesn't it.

[@BeefT-Sq]

" The claim that men doing the same type of job should all be paid the same wages, regardless of differences in their performance or output, thus penalizing the superior worker in favor of the inferior---this is the doctrine of the divine right of stagnation. " -Nathaniel Branden-

[@celestialteapot309]

better late than never, it's called socialism.

[@peggyfranzen6159]

To be social as a human being , always means to be yourself, and the means to be oneself using free will Free will!.

[@PT5684]

You have no idea....

[@aliwright1016]

🌹

[@tictoc5443]

Been there Tried that

[@peggyfranzen6159]

Socialism is not an answer to freedom, nor anything economic.It is a denial, and an individual being corrupted by " There is no free will!", is another individual whom every dictator, with some " Cult of Personality", will persuade.

[@ese3go]

Someone once told me: Don't believe every thing you think.

[@stephensbubble7333]

Like Fruit we are perishable and limited by Mortality to such a short span. The idea that Tradition & Accumulated Wisdom has no place in A Modern Future Orientated Society has proved to be counter productive & extremely damaging. Day One indeed. I believe that rather than Human Beings striving to have our "needs" met the solution is a concept of a "New Humanity". That new humanity could be described as The Way, The Truth and The Life -maybe even "The Abundant Life" rather than this idea of Austerity and trying to "Save Capitalism" let's sing the Old Song.............I can't be Happy unless I make you Happy too!

[@sandipbiswas3997]

🙏

[@minhng7208]

Duke of the Edinburgh program: good idea but should be free so that kids from disadvantaged background could participate!

[@JB-vb6dh]

27:17 denial of suffering

[@lowersaxon]

A market economy is wiithout alternative. „Capitalism“ is more often the result of state policies and intervention.

[@lefttoitall2982]

Government intervention is necessary in saving Capitalism simply because without it, the "Free Market" would collapse.

[@lefttoitall2982]

Capitalism is an economic ideology based on profit over human suffering. Socialism is a way of bringing back humanity to the Capitalist system. Capital = profit over Social - as in the social need...the ism's....are not important but the humane component. All that said, without heavily subsidizing Capitalist monopolies the so called "Free Market," could not sustain itself. Without state intervention corporations would fail pretty much in a week of so of complete chaos. The global market is not based in what is the social-economic needs of the majority but the huge profits of the very, very few.

[@lefttoitall2982]

Not sure I answered your question exactly?

[@lefttoitall2982]

@Anurag Chakraborty Under the Global Capitalist model, "socialist" countries can not possibly do very well. This is especially true when the capitalist countries, the U.S., etc., either try to over through their democratically elected governments, impose harsher and harsher sanctions (economic warfare) or just bomb and assassinate it's governments leaders. That said their are remarkable exceptions like Cuba, China and others. In my point of view, Socialism mitigates some of the self destructive ills of Capitalism. So again we have China which is a "mixed economy" and they will eventually supersede the U.S. economy in roughly a decade or so. I don't remember the exact year. I do not see the U.S. changing course to a rational program of MMT for instance - done the right way -deficit spending creating a massive Federal jobs guarantee, as just one example, to get our economy functioning as well as bringing back manufacturing to truly push for green technologies and so on. I don't like to make predictions but I think the U.S. imperial economic system is crashing and burning in front of our eyes.

[@a.s.2426]

Whereas pre-capitalism history was simply suffering (poverty) for all.

[@user-wp8yx]

This is not capitalism. In my neighborhood, the government funds almost all businesses. Otherwise, they wouldn't generate enough revenue to cover government-mandated expenses and would have to close. It's not capitalism when I make $40k and I'm taxed at $20,000 while Warren Buffett makes $40k and is taxed at $40. It's not capitalism when the government only does business with one developer who doesn't have to pay taxes and gets lots of grants. I cannot comprehend why people think this is a capitalist environment. This is so far removed from open market capitalism where there's a shop in front of everyone's house that they own, basic and affordable regulation, and a reasonably equal tax system, I cannot fathom why people claim this to be capitalism.

[@01mustang05]

It's because of generational abuses and damages. It's a dysfunctional system or corruption and slavery.

[@johnries5593]

Pretty much everything is discussed, but what life after capitalism would actually look like. What sort of economic order is being proposed? The participants never really say.

[@scotteagles4864]

Loved the juxtaposition between Buddhism / Capitalism in regards to Suffering. Capitalism got it so wrong.

[@nigen]

so, I was kinda excitef ro the premise of this video, but there's really not a whole we don't know in terms of the economic vs environmental situation, then a lot of hopeful, optimistic pseudo intellectual spiritual shit, but nothing that comes into police or strategies, or new systems that aren't in their natural self destructive. i feel like this is the problem with the intellectual class trying to speak on behalf of the working class. their privilege allows them SO much blindness to the general masses their 'mediations' and crap have no meaning to the people who need actions, changes, not some kumbaya fest that requires people to be of equal privilege to them to enjoy.

[@freenewspage]

Development of the intellectual self is essential for humans to progress and create the positive solutions needed to address today's most urgent issues. The clock is ticking.

[@BeefT-Sq]

" The euphemisms of government press releases notwithstanding, the basis of regulation is armed force. " -Alan Greenspan-

[@piccadelly9360]

I'm the same opinion. What comes after that nobody knows

[@nansir]

It helps if we define Capitalism. So let's do that ; Capitalism - The Monetary System. The Alternative ? - a system in which we have transcended the need for money, called a #ResourceBasedEconomy. The existence of money CREATES the motivation to compete.

[@a.s.2426]

It is the opportunity to relatively boundlessly create wealth (among many other things) that creates the impetus to compete. In principle at least, wealth creation does not require money.

[@richardfinlayson1524]

This is how psychedelics are helpful, they help you confront your mortality, and therefore manage you fear. For me it was a life changing experience, at least part of that process. Fear is an illusion.

[@01mustang05]

Is fear an illusion to young and helpless children being abused, threatened, and tortured? Would you dominate and/or try to brainwash a child to believe your claim - their fear of abusive people who have, are, and will hurt them "is an illusion"?

[@richardfinlayson1524]

@@01mustang05 you can change the way you respond to fear, I don't think psychedelics solve any problem, but I think that when you confront your fears it can help you come to terms with them, and devise new strategy to help you deal with them.obviously of you are in a horrific situation it is probably impractical.i guess saying ,fear is an illusion, is not true for lots of people, I probably could have said the same thing without saying that.in a lot of cases it's true though,fear can be debilitating.and it is possible to work with these fears to break negative habits and conditioned responses.

[@richardfinlayson1524]

I don't think you should just run out there and take drugs to escape either, I'm just saying that psychedelics can be very useful, and have to a large degree have been missrepresented by the media. It did seem relevant to the discussion to me.

[@ProgressiveTruthSeekers]

"And I never intend to adjust myself to economic conditions that will take necessities of from the many to give luxuries to the few." ~Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

[@willjames1712]

This idea of post-growth is like exposing the soft of your neck to blood thirsty predators.

[@ayeone3870]

Lmao

[@silentbob5566]

Trivial error: growth in value taken as growth in weight of the products.

[@erikmueller9668]

I find it ironic that these two men are speaking about how important it is to overcome fear, and yet the policy they would support has been birthed by an ideology notorious for overreaction and causing more harm than good in the name of fear. Only once put into practice, that is, because these policies put far too much trust into the hands of a few men.

[@andrewshewmon5859]

What's old is new again. Yeah!

[@sewnsew6770]

Am glad someone looking at this Middle Ages were sustainable although most people were poor We have pulled the future forward so will likely have collapse by 2040 with a pile of junk in the garage or storage locker Glad I am old as won’t have to deal with One good thing is local economy will return So people will survive with less Will horses and oxen be brought back lol

[@peternyc]

Capitalism is predicated on what we call growth. The term growth is misleading, because it means growth in terms of transactions and interest. The "productive" side of growth in capitalism is a joke. We spend most of our time producing things that we mostly don't need. This is growth in capitalism. On the other hand, growth in socialism where the people own the means of production is a good thing. It produces things that satisfy real needs and wants. The problem is capitalism, not growth per se.

[@randyjohnson9808]

When has “the people” owning the means of production ever worked?

[@TobeornottooB]

People have control of production in "open book" public service for taxes economy, capitalism doesn't exist in a black budget economy.

[@randyjohnson9808]

@@TobeornottooB what people?

[@TobeornottooB]

@@randyjohnson9808 The "citizens" as tax payers. The citizens can't see or consent to budgets or control how taxes (taxation is theft) are spent, if they can't see and audit their books, nor can they direct how their currency is spent.

[@kamakatewhare8245]

A few questions for you friend. How do you decide what exactly a "real" need or want is? Surely you are not the arbiter of such things, no? How can any man, far disconnected from my life or not, decide what I "really" want? Should that not be up to me? Should I not be able to use my resources in a manner that satisfies me, or is it more just that another man uses force to decide how the resources I have acquired through my own labours?

[@mammaliandischarger]

I have to say I expected another interesting but lack of passion and emotion interview. We need passion and love so much today. This was very touching and we need to heal our hearts and our minds to get out of this mess together. Thank you!

[@albirtarsha5370]

2007, Stein's law bit us in the ass... [Again!] We refuse to learn because we are human. Human leaders cannot be trusted under any system. We need robotic overlords.

[@richardfinlayson1524]

Human potential is boundless, the resources of the planet are not.

[@a.s.2426]

Not sure that is correct. Sustainability by definition makes a finite resource base infinite.

[@nunyabidnis3815]

@@a.s.2426 Sustainability isn't perpetual motion, though. There is no lossless energy, after all. There can be very efficient use of resources, and ways to aid in replenishing them.. but consider... there's only so much Lithium, right? Once that's used up in batteries, it's done.. and there will be a tremendous amount of pollution in the process. There may be a whole lot, and we may design beyond it, but that's not to say it's without limit. You can slow and regulate the use of a supply to last hundreds of years, rather than dozens.. and that's more what sustainability is really about long term.

[@TheFreeAdviceMan]

People should read: "The Mass Psychology of Fascism" by Wilhelm Reich...and "Hope for The Flowers" by Trina Paulus ... and "How Fake, Racist, Conspiracy Theories Harm Efforts to Expose Real Conspiracies" by JP Fenyo.... As for the criminals: The criminals read the following books: "in principe" ... "The Prince" by Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli ... : "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu : "Propaganda" by Edward Bernays ... 2007-2008 Grand Theft World! And those of us whose lives have been ruined...severely harmed....put at greatest risk of premature death.... : WHO SPEAKS FOR US????

[@zantecarroll4448]

Jimmy dore!

[@wanderingfido]

The first mistake was diluting or nullifying the Glass-Steagall Act. The next insult to injury was doing nothing about that post-2008. Do we really wonder why Trump got the seat? _This is why_

[@patrickmccormack4318]

What sort of economist could we trust? Not many. Mason Gaffney and other of similar ilk...comes to my mind. Mason Gaffney 1923-2020 Guy Standing Michael Hudson David Graeber

[@blairhakamies4132]

Your mother is the best economist you will have meet! 😇

[@patrickmccormack4318]

@@blairhakamies4132 , Well OK. Mom was passive aggressive, seemingly more conservative than progressive, and emotionally frail. Though I loved Mom, she allowed her proverbial heart and faith in Biblical scriptures...to lead her life and those she influenced. Mom's childhood was shockingly terrible. Often she reflected on that abuse. Indoctrinated by that sort of violence, no wonder she became who she was. For that sort of person, society is irrelevant and economics...daily, hand-to-mouth survival. Take care. Mom 1939-2020

[@blairhakamies4132]

@@patrickmccormack4318 I so sorry to know that. It is good that did not lose your path. Persons that read the thinkers you mentioned above are not indifferent to their role in contributing for a better world. Keep on shinning. 🌹

[@LetterSignedBy51SpiesWasA-Coup]

You own nothing, you have no privacy, and you’ve never been happier.

[@xbluebells]

You own everything, you have ultimate privacy, and you've never been sadder.

[@peggyfranzen6159]

No, not for those who want better, and achieve better.

[@dinnerwithfranklin2451]

"You" own nothing. Somebody is going to own it and it isn't those who do the work. Therefore it isn"t socialism or co.munism.

[@nathanngumi8467]

Wow, very profound! The world is at a crossroads in regard to capitalism, thanks to covid. Which paths are available, and which will nations take?

[@mrmicklord]

Just wondering why you've spelt After with two T's

[@NewEconomicThinking]

For the same reason the whole line of text is both smashed together and broken up at the same time :)

[@Userkzb20253]

Capitalism is take take take …. Based on zero that zero sum, there is another group must give give give … Extreme capitalism is the a few taking happiness away from the many.

[@01mustang05]

There's so much wrong being claimed in this video, mixed with some truths, mixed with some reasonable insights, but overall misses where humanity goes really bad (damages young children) and how bad humanity at large is being right now and continues to fail miserably. There currently is no way to stop this craziness, nor challenge it. This is why CHILD ABUSES and more ugly truths continue every single day.

[@joew666]

There is no longer dignity in death

[@ProgressiveTruthSeekers]

"Militarism... is the chief bulwark of capitalism. When it is that militarism is undermined, capitalism will fail." ~Helen Keller

[@nuqwestr]

Balls in, rather than Balls out, no, moderation of both extremes.... please.

[@Jake-rm7rz]

great talk, thanks!

[@stewartjones2173]

Surely it's fear which makes the middle classes break the Social Contract.

[@danthemansmail]

I don't believe there will be very much life left after Capitalism.....

[@jamesmorton7881]

all talk . . . .

[@geoffreynhill2833]

This terrifies the insatiably greedy. (See below)

[@danielhutchinson6604]

Snooty Intellectuals discussing important concepts, who manage to dance around the simple concept of abandoning Capitalism altogether. We need to face the fact that measuring out time, with coins is the basic idea that can be eliminated by just suggesting to the Planet to drop the use of Capital entirely? The fact that the majority of Humanity will continue to be active members of society without the greed of Capitalism, seems to be a thought that is rarely confronted? Why not just say that the shiny objects that Sumerians created, are no longer needed to sustain modern civilization? We can then fine tune the change to a sustainable future after we start there? I admit that some wealthy individuals will not be pleased...... The majority of the inhabitants of the planet appear to be able to adjust to such a system, if they can survive Capitalism?

[@GrandmaCathy]

Jeff Bezos. Guy who steals his delivery drivers' tips. 🙄

[@peggyfranzen6159]

Jeff Bezos. didn't steal anything, he might reinvest in. human endeavors, however, that is his concern.

[@nunyabidnis3815]

@@peggyfranzen6159 You and I have WILDLY different definitions of human endeavors. Somehow, the humans who have to endeavor to work for him for survival, aren't the same humans to you.

[@richardfinlayson1524]

The pandemic shows how hopeless capitalism is in a crisis.

[@01mustang05]

Is it really capitalism? Or is it slavery? Are you capable of telling or are you stuck on assuming authority and dictatorship tactics?

[@SupurNinja]

I'm an economist. Only two minutes in and it's obvious these guys are quacks.

[@cambriawellness3102]

With regard to fast-tracking innovation, without sufficient economic, health or safety reviews, one can look at the latest array of genetic engineering, nanoparticle, vaxsinations, or the ensuing small cell tower and satellite enslaught to see our unwise push toward a competitive edge and profit.

[@dinnerwithfranklin2451]

Excellent interview, thank you.

[@antonimonti6902]

Life after capitalism? Techno feudalism?

[@GrandmaCathy]

Yes

[@antonimonti6902]

@@GrandmaCathy Capitalism will collapse... But probably not before it reaches an even more degraded form of itself... Is "socialism" an answer?... Both, capitalism and socialism are predicted on "economic growth"...in about 50 yrs that "growth" will be stunned by an fossil fuels supply crunch... Though socialism... is probably more preferable to the kind of capitalism we have now...socialism is just capitalism without the steroids and it shifts the mode of production ownership towards something more favorable to the masses of the working class... "Green " eco-capitalism will only create more problems that have been created by the current forms of capitalism that have existed over the past hundreds of years ... since the "industrial revolution"..

[@GrandmaCathy]

@@antonimonti6902 Yanis Varoufakis says we already have techno-fuedalism.

[@peggyfranzen6159]

An honest individual goes on.Free enterprise should remain honest.

[@MrDannyHeim]

ur talking about a spiritual revolution, well, it had better happen quick

[@DanHowardMtl]

Are these technocrats going to accept the blame when the gulags are back up? Assuredly not.

[@eldiegoasecas]

quit larping you're an adult already

[@DanHowardMtl]

@@eldiegoasecas Found the future Auschwitz guard.

[@nunyabidnis3815]

@@DanHowardMtl Do you mean gulags against the capitalists? Or... what? Judging by your buzz words, don't you think right wing authoritarians would 'gulag' people over social faux pas just as, if not faster? "You're being gay in public? That's 5 years. You're helping the homeless? That's anti-hierarchy- 15 years." You're supporting eugenicists, bud.. the fascists had deadly prison camps, too.. you know.

[@DanHowardMtl]

@@nunyabidnis3815 All this leads to North Korea.

[@nunyabidnis3815]

@@DanHowardMtl Oh Baby! That's one really wild leap in logic. Touch grass, my guy.

[@yuriarin3237]

too much Rousseau and very little Hobbes.

[@looperant]

please explain!

[@yuriarin3237]

@@looperant They just mention the potentialities of human action not yet explored by capitalism, but fail to mention in the least the capacity of the system to 'cage' human action as to make it not wreck havoc or even the capacity to prevent human 'inaction' from threatening the survivability of the overall system to foster human life. Rousseau is a romantic (as the panelists seem to be) but Hobbes is a realist, how should we order things so as to be able to survive.

[@peggyfranzen6159]

Eew. You stink like Corporate Marxism.Eew.

[@krisrousseau5510]

@@yuriarin3237 To call J. J. Rousseau romantic but less realistic, I wonder if you had ever read Rousseau. Explain to me what was wrong in his points of view. Capitalism is wrong, even more it is fundamental wrong, it is the worst political-economic system to benefit a population and basically could never create a stable society. Your talking about human capacities. I know that the human capacity would have a much bigger efficiency in a non profit based society, no doubt about that. in such a direct-democracy non-profit society it would be more peaceful and free education, healthcare and public transport would be available for everyone.

[@ivandate9972]

Prosperity without growth ? did he really hate growth ?

[@guilhermeschitzamaral8627]

⥊ 1500

[@kevinjackson4933]

Getting rid of capitalism does get rid of inequity. Inequity is a natural side effect of people being allowed to be different. So when you use centralized authority to control those differences, which alternatives to capitalism invariably do, then you end up with people being more controlled and almost everyone being forced to be equally average. Which is something that people who feel personally or economically low-status enjoy, but people who enjoy their individuality suffer greatly from.