Lifter Failure Carnage! Disassembling Mopar 440 That Lost Cam And Lifters On Break-In

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Dead Dodge Garage

Dead Dodge Garage

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 296
@kennethreiver985
@kennethreiver985 Жыл бұрын
I am 66 years old and worked in 2 different engine rebuilding shops 5 years each , plus I was doing my own engines before and after working in these places. I have never seen such a rash of camshaft failures before . I personally think it has to do with manufacturing techniques and quality control . There is problems across the board with crap parts . Unfortunately this is an expensive failure when it happens . I would be pissed if it happened to me . Glad you caught it quickly .
@craigpierce7996
@craigpierce7996 Жыл бұрын
These new over-the-counter parts are a real threat to a successful build at budget. I would get a cam from Bullet...
@Haffschlappe
@Haffschlappe 7 ай бұрын
No its a government oder
@geebopbaluba1591
@geebopbaluba1591 Жыл бұрын
I had the same problem with my SBC 350 last year with a comp extreme energy so after comp wouldn’t warranty the cam and lifters and I lost that money so I went to Howard’s and after cleaning the engine up and went through the same break in I had no issues and my K5 runs great. I will never buy anything from comp again because they think I’m incompetent to build an engine although I’ve built so many that I can’t remember and never had a problem one.
@tomhergert
@tomhergert Жыл бұрын
Got the cam from Summit and they warrantied it no problem. Was lucky I guess.
@Shade_tree_garage01
@Shade_tree_garage01 Жыл бұрын
Could go roller instead of sticking with flat tappet
@chrisw5837
@chrisw5837 Жыл бұрын
@@Shade_tree_garage01 that’s missing the point. Flat tappet cams have been around for ever. They shouldn’t fail like this. Companies shouldn’t sell inferior products.
@flinch622
@flinch622 Жыл бұрын
The high price of companies going cheap? Correct me if I'm wrong, but with cc, I think you have to request hardening? Reference page 232 of the 2016 catalog for services that don't necessarily come with an off the shelf cam. Nitriding or parkerizing a flat tappet cam isn't something something we should have to beg for, but then there's the ongoing lifter issues. I don't recall ever reading anyone broaching the subject, but in addition to a minimum hardness spec, there ought to also be a differential limit between cam and lifters. Watch a chef sharpen a knife with a steel, and you get the picture. As I understand it, differential rockwell hardness has to be under 8 or metal cuts metal. So I'd take a chance on 4 or less. Then there's the voodoo of break in oils: they actually allow greater early wear... and that means break in should be no longer than 20 minutes, not a minimum. They ought to call it burnishing oil as I see it. That in mind, maybe builders should relegate break in oil to dressing cylinder walls, skirts, and the rings for assembly and just fire up with a good high wear resistance oil in the sump [assumes cam lube applied on install]? Builders now are also seemingly tasked with qc companies used to do: verify crown consistency on lifters, and taper on all lobes - vee blocks and a dial gauge will work.
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
howards has one of only a few american made lifters. i ONLY use them.
@bbivens8263
@bbivens8263 Жыл бұрын
Yep, built my 440 for a Ramcharger 4x4. At 378 miles, a lifter was so worn it had a hole in the bottom. Two other lifters were getting that way. Being very hard of hearing, I couldn`t hear it going bad. It was a Comp cam and hydraulic lifters. Went to buy an Eddy cam, opened the box, the cam was in a Comp box. Sent the junk back.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yep… ouch.
@thomasward4505
@thomasward4505 Жыл бұрын
We were taught in mechanic school to put 1 lifter base against the side of another lifter and that is a very good straightedge to check it with for the crown
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Hey, that’s what I did! It doesn’t give us the dimensions of the crown, but it does at least tell us that there is one.
@cougariog8817
@cougariog8817 Жыл бұрын
Cool video Jamie! I have had the combo problem where both cam and lifters were the culprit. Keep up the great work!!
@richjordan9375
@richjordan9375 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to your lifter choice and results.
@55gaser26
@55gaser26 Жыл бұрын
I’ve had really good luck with Bullit cams lately for my mopars. Hughs also pretty good. Bullit easy guys to work with also on custom grinds.
@jmr1970
@jmr1970 Жыл бұрын
Well Jamie another Comp Stump cam and lifter failure. I had a 440 #8 exhaust lifter go bad. I replaced all with some cheap Jegs brand lifters. Great job detailing and explaining your experience with this worldwide epidemic. 👍🏻🇺🇸🏁
@brocluno01
@brocluno01 Жыл бұрын
OK, old guy here. Been fooling with engines for well over 50 years. Mostly marine, but cars and trucks too. The odd drag engine here and there. Sticky rod small end, not good. Cam taper should be around 0.003" between tall side and short side on any lobe. Lifter crown is ~ a on a flat surface (glass OK) rock lifter over to one side, sheet of copy paper should go under other edge pretty easily. No go, no use. You can pay to have a cam (that you've inspected) hardened. Good idea for engine that live at RPM like say a boat. Only lifters I trust are Crower Cam Saver, Howards direct lube, and Rhodes variable. Crower guarantees face hardness and lists spec. Rhodes are made by Johnson Controls - a known USA producer. Had good luck with Howards up till now, but they are part of the Comp group now, so ...
@allanperryman388
@allanperryman388 7 ай бұрын
Very detailed work. Great job
@dannybradley271
@dannybradley271 Жыл бұрын
I've been in manufacturing for over 45 years. Piss-poor quality control is a root cause of the issues we all have been seeing. It's not just in the world of hobbies,it's become prevalent in many places. Most of which is profit driven.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
That’s what I’ve heard. Things have changed and it’s not good.
@SpecialAgentJamesAki
@SpecialAgentJamesAki Жыл бұрын
Much agreed. When costs are cut I often see qc be the first thing to go.
@craigpierce7996
@craigpierce7996 Жыл бұрын
I've had it happen... yeah, truly sucks. That's why I like hydraulic roller cams for street. So much easier to check the lifter to cam surface parallelism. You can trust Bullet cams!
@angieholmquist2372
@angieholmquist2372 Жыл бұрын
I had a Crane cams blueprinted series stock 340 grind cam go flat back in the 80's , all I can say is be prepared for the worst. My motor was new and I ended up having to replace everything, and I mean everything ! Cam lifters, bearings (Rods and Mains) and even had to punch the motor .060 over... metal contamination does terrible things... And yes, I did break it in the proper way! Praying for the best for you.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Wow. Well, I’ve already had the engine apart, cleaned the hell out of everything, checked bearings, and reassembled the short block (less camshaft - waiting for the replacement still.) We got really lucky on this one with no major mechanical damage.
@vincemajestyk9497
@vincemajestyk9497 Жыл бұрын
I got one of those plastic (fiber reinforced nylon) trays too. They're great! It's really hard to get the OE steel one to fit and seal with 2 gaskets and the stock bolts. That rod that's machined different won't matter because the OE cranks all had undercut journal radiuses. It would be an issue with an aftermarket crank or something like a Hemi Kellogg crank with full radiuses. Most of the garbage that fell from those chewed up lifters would hit the crank first, then be pulled into the oil pickup and be filtered out (hopefully). Looks like you got out of it pretty easy. Like I said before, you'll probably NEVER know for sure, you can have a pretty good idea based on what you did and didn't do, but once they go the evidence is all destroyed. I would be inclined to lean toward the lifter machining. The metallurgy is the same and not really a factor. You're not going to get a single 'soft' lobe on a cam that's hardened as 1 piece. Same thing with the lifters. They are treated in huge batches. The lobe taper needs to match the lifter taper pretty close to work. Most are in the range of .0015-.0025. If either one is off you aren't going to have proper contact loading or rotation. It should be more towards the outside of the tappet for faster rotation and loading. Any cam or lifter properly hardened or machined will wipe in short order once it stops spinning. To a point, less taper is actually better for lifter life provided they rotate. The 'Six Pack' cams had flatter lobes and lifters to distribute the spring loads which was the same taper as the hydraulic 1970-71 Hemi cams. IIRC they were more in the .0005-.001 range. There were some Buicks in the '60's that had practically flat cams and lifters. BTW, one thing you can do, if you're paranoid and want to make sure the contact is OK before you button it up, is mark up the lobes and lifter faces with some dykem blue and turn the cam to check the contact area.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yep - on the rod issue, is able to fly because there is no radius. If there was, it would be a totally different story. Again I don’t have a way of precisely measuring the taper on the lifters that didn’t go - I can just tell there was one. I had checked them before installation and they all had it. Seeing two start to go despite still turning, and seeing the bits flaking off, are what made me question the metallurgy. Being that they came in a kit together, one could expect that the lobe and lifter taper would be compatible - but one should probably not assume… I like the dykem idea. That’s really good thinking.
@vincemajestyk9497
@vincemajestyk9497 Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage Thanks! To be honest I think the issue is that the equipment making these lifters now is many decades old and they really aren't investing in the machinery for a practically non-existent marketplace. Supposedly the best ones now are the Johnson Hylift tappets and those aren't even what they used to be. I would strongly urge you to scour ebay for some NOS ones. I'll bet they're cheaper than the new Johnson's. It's REALLY difficult to measure the taper on the cam and lifter with the stuff average guys have access too.
@peteloomis8456
@peteloomis8456 Жыл бұрын
​@@DeadDodgeGarage Check out a company called T&D performance who makes top of the line valve train components that the top fuel sprint car and nascar engine builders use for cans lifters and push rods that are much better than Comp and many of the other popular cam makers are making now . The guy that started this company was the first to use the spintron to watch push rods and valve springs and cam lifter movement to see what was happening and going on at different RPMs to then develop much better parts for racing because they sell cams and lifters for popular V8 engines . I belong to a local car club by me and we had 2 guys that built new engines for their cars and both took their engines to a Dyno shop by us to start and heat sink and do the break in process and one guy had his 383 on the Dyno with a new cam and lifters and it was running like crap back firing on one cylinder acting like maybe the plug wire was on the wrong plug and checked but what we found out that the cam which was a comp cams 2 of the lobes were ground wrong and weren't opening at the correct lobe angles for that intake and exhaust on that cylinder. The other guy had a SBC and used a comp cam and had it on the Dyno and went through the break in and tune and after put it in his rat rod pickup and got about 200 miles on the engine driving it easy but at different speeds and RPMs and that cam went bad as well even after being run and cam break in was done in the Dyno so comps quality has dropped dramatically and I won't use them anymore. About the only way to get around this is to find someone that can custom grind and make a cam and matching lifter set or go hydraulic roller or solid roller which I know isn't cheap but they don't have lifter problems like we are seeing with these hydraulic flat tappet cams now . Part of the problem is almost every performance engine and most modern day engines are using roller cams and lifters and with our older engines being in the side line I think a lot of the cam manufacturers are shying away from the old hydraulic flat tappet cams now and are trying to push us guys that are building these old engines to buy into the roller cam market that and I would bet that a lot of these older hydraulic flat tappet cams are probably being machined and made in China and the quality of machining has gone out the window and we can thank our corrupt politicians for this selling America out to the Chinese and having just about everything made by them now which most of it's junk .
@bedlamite42
@bedlamite42 Жыл бұрын
Air cooled VW's have been having cam/lifter problems for 15-20 years. There are a couple shops in Germany making tool steel lifters. Big $, but they have had no reported problems.
@RyTrapp0
@RyTrapp0 Жыл бұрын
Yea, that seems to be flat tappet lifters in general, regardless of the engine, quality & consistency seems to have just really started to fall off since the late '80s, beginning of the '90s, and just slowly, progressively gotten worse. Then the lockdowns happened and we got a BIG fall off.
@Haffschlappe
@Haffschlappe 7 ай бұрын
300 Euro per lifter is not an Option for a v8
@peacemaker6156
@peacemaker6156 Жыл бұрын
My first cam failed. Then i went with howards cam and lifters. So far so good.
@stevenfan1218
@stevenfan1218 Жыл бұрын
I know this is going to sound unprofessional .but we were very poor.we never owned a torgue wrench..we built a lot of motors on a car hood on the ground..the last one I know of was a 455 oldsmobile. The last time I ask my dad he told me it had 80.000 miles on it ...built a lot of chevy motors..big block and small block..never had a problem..raced a lot .and that one Olds motor was an h.o.motor.69 442.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Hey, I’ll be first one to tell you there are a lot more ways than one to get it done. I’m fully self taught and had never had a problem… until now… I do have some nice tools, and try to do my best version of a professional job. But I’m really just an advanced hobbyist.
@duncanmacrae6384
@duncanmacrae6384 Жыл бұрын
This is what happens when a cam company, (or any other) gets too big and doesn't care about what happens to the individual customer anymore.
@Haffschlappe
@Haffschlappe 6 ай бұрын
Dont buy any comp crap and no Chinese stuff
@johnkufeldt3564
@johnkufeldt3564 Жыл бұрын
No magnet on the drain plug? I have also used magnets on the oil pan, you just pull it off when you drain the oil. Saves alot of work down the road.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I’m going to add one, but either way - I really don’t think that will help as much as people might think. In cases like this, there will still be metal falling on the crank, on the windage tray, etc.
@shake-the-earth1
@shake-the-earth1 Жыл бұрын
I had the same problem on a dodge la 360. It was a lifter failure. I do believe that some of the lifters do not have a taper to them. You have to look at ever part nowadays. I found that you if you see any type of lines on the flat lifter’s do not use them.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I did check them - and they did have a taper. I can’t say if it was the correct amount of taper to match the cam, but they were definitely not machined flat.
@shake-the-earth1
@shake-the-earth1 Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage when I pulled my cam out you could see where the cam was trying to spin the lifter and the lift had the same flaking issue on the out side of the lifter. The next time build another engine I will use roller solid lifters. I did hear the roller lifters have some internal issues but you will not destroy the cam. In a few months I’ll build a la 318. I guess I’ll find out.
@don66hotrod94
@don66hotrod94 8 ай бұрын
Had a bad lifter tick on a fresh 440 build. When taking off the valley gasket we noticed a sketchy cam lobe as well. Comp cam and lifters. Replaced with ISKY and Johnson lifters.
@360RTZoD
@360RTZoD Жыл бұрын
I have had 2 CC failures... It can't just be coincidence. I have installed quite a few cams but 2 from the same company failed.. I used a Summit K6401 Cam and lifter kit on my personal 440 and no issues. Cam break in was easy. I have a couple videos posted about this as well.
@zanewakeup
@zanewakeup Жыл бұрын
I am 70 and never had a cam fail like that. I rebuilt several small and big blocks. However I load the cam and lifters with molly grease and run them just above idle until the lifters pump up. I know they tell you to run it at 3000 rpm for break in but I thought it would sling all the grease off in no time.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yes, but the splash oil being thrown up by the crank at the higher RPM lubricates the cam. Your grease is wiped off in no time too.
@murphystreeter
@murphystreeter Жыл бұрын
Yeah... it's the oil. It's terrible.... they've pulled all of the goodies out. Might as well be running water.
@teagreen2220
@teagreen2220 Жыл бұрын
Always check for proper taper BEFORE assembly!
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Good advice.
@thomasward4505
@thomasward4505 Жыл бұрын
I guess you have Summits combination windage tray oil pan gasket part I have used it a few times and it works fantastic, which is similar to Modern Hemi style set up
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yep! It’s an awesome part. So much better than two corks and a metal tray.
@rebekahfrench5747
@rebekahfrench5747 Жыл бұрын
A box of Duds.. with a bump stick.. that sux..
@murphystreeter
@murphystreeter Жыл бұрын
I'd say most of the trash ended up in your filter. I would recommend replacing the pump. The camshaft failures come down to oil. Put a paint mark on every lifter. Roll the engine over a dozen times without the intake. Ensure all lifters rotate. Dump in some Lucas. You need something that will stick to your surfaces. Slick 50, dura lube, STP, Lucas. Break in lube, zinc plus, yada yada. It isn't working. Use the Lucas or one of the others I've listed. People have done the hardness tests and proven it's not in the metal.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I went over all of this in later videos. Also, I checked the pump out. It was fine. There was very little debris in the engine.
@johnsmith7676
@johnsmith7676 10 ай бұрын
I have come to pretty much the same conclusion. Oil. It's ALL crap now. But there ARE other contributing factors, as well. "Synthetic" is also a loaded word; be warned. None of this is an accident. Welcome to the Great Reset. Enjoy the ride... err... I mean descent.
@michaelnault5905
@michaelnault5905 Жыл бұрын
A lot of work. Those parts need to be right to earn customer trust. No trust, no sale.
@davechambers5387
@davechambers5387 Жыл бұрын
you bought a " chinesium " cam and lifters . its SO hard to avoid such junk .
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Kind of. Those lifters are apparently machined in America - and still junk
@mikerundell6517
@mikerundell6517 Жыл бұрын
Dang frustrating to see this sorry to see that I was wanting to buy a new cam worried I'm going to have to go to the roller and I just can't afford it
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I get it. It’s hard to know what to do. I have heard good things about Lunati, Howard’s, and Hughes. I’d try any one of those - and I’ve heard Johnson lifters are good quality. Hughes has those in stock. I have not seen or tried them myself yet.
@bbivens8263
@bbivens8263 Жыл бұрын
Try getting ahold of customer service at Comp. 6 weeks, twice a day, no live person. Forget about the "warranty".
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Summit took care of us on that. But just the cost of the kit.
@LSSindustries
@LSSindustries Жыл бұрын
Lifter failure is why I’m terrified of breaking in the engine for my mercury
@Haffschlappe
@Haffschlappe 7 ай бұрын
Get elgin cams
@iamnoone.
@iamnoone. Жыл бұрын
I just got a comp cam and lifters in well I'm sending them back Monday. I have too much invested in my 440 to worry about a cam failure. I guess I'm going with a roller
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
You could also try Lunati or Hughes. Everything I’ve heard indicates they are much better.
@terryzeissler4199
@terryzeissler4199 Жыл бұрын
Chrysler has always specified molyibdenum sulfide break in lubricant for cam lobes. The gray stuff that comes with an application brush. I still have some I purchased about 50 years ago. With flat tappet cams always use oil with ZDDP in it. I have seen many cams fail on start up when using oil without it. The surface treatment you see on a new cams is called Parckerising, it is an etching process done to help retain lubrication during break in. As a liscenced Journyman mechanic for almost 50 years I can remember in the early 1980s when GM was having a huge problem with lifter failures in small blocks. It was so bad that it was almost impossible to get cams and lifters for them, especially 305 engines. It turned out that Gm had switched to a different manufacturer for lifters and case hardening on the bottoms was bad. They would only last for about 30,000 miles and then fail. This problem took them about 3 0r 4 years before they got everything switched back to the original supplier and the problem went away. I don't have a lot of faith with this red assembly lube that comes with camshafts today and I am going to stick with the moly lube.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yeah I’m done with the red stuff. I have heard of the issues GM had. Very much onboard the ZDDP train. Something I have talked about with people a lot over the years - but not something I have really talked about on video, as there is lots of that information out there. This particular engine was running Driven break in oil. Good to know - I hadn’t heard of Parckerising.
@jumpinjojo
@jumpinjojo Жыл бұрын
Jamie, who are you going to go with for a cam and lifters on this go round?
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
We wanted to go with Hughes but they didn’t have what we needed in stock. Same story at Lunati. We were going to try Howard’s, because they say they can get it to us within a couple weeks. Then Tom found an NOS Mopar Performance cam with almost exactly the same specs as this Comp… so we may go that route instead.
@saldesiderio3456
@saldesiderio3456 Жыл бұрын
What does the sides of the lifters show? could be a tight lifter bore keeping that lifter from spinning.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Absolutely not. Verified during build, verified after failure. I showed and discussed that specifically in the first video to head that one off at the pass. Haha.
@silicon212
@silicon212 6 ай бұрын
The faces of the lifters, which mate to the cam lobe, are supposed to have a bit of crown to them - to match the pitch of the cam lobe, in order to impart spin on the lifter when the engine is running. Many aftermarket lifters lack the proper amount of this crown, which is leading to the failures.
@0004612
@0004612 Жыл бұрын
Uncle Tony is the man! The “new” parts out there are scary gambles.
@joebrock9784
@joebrock9784 Жыл бұрын
Replace it with a Lunati cam, or if you use something from COM putting Melling lifters in it, and it’ll work comp lifters a junker made from Mexican and Japanese steel
@joebrock9784
@joebrock9784 Жыл бұрын
It’s also because Carb Ryan’s all their cams, the same rather it be a roller or hydraulic if you look at the GM at Ford Cham on my original, it’s brown with a totally different Taiper than that is because lobes on that are made to be rolled over by the roller lifters not smacked into my hydraulics, but calm thinks that they can grind one ham base on everything and it works plus if you just smelling lifters with a comp cam, you can usually get away with it but I would go with something from Lunati since you can’t get something with Green anymore since my GM exploded and went bankrupt. They owed crane billions of dollars and cam fees at the neighbor paid and the government under Obama said they didn’t have to sell Lunati is your best bet.
@Shade_tree_garage01
@Shade_tree_garage01 Жыл бұрын
@@joebrock9784 umm.. Mexican and Japanese metals are some of the best in the world, you mean “Chinese” and “Taiwanese” metals
@joebrock9784
@joebrock9784 Жыл бұрын
No just can’t cams crap sucks not hydraulic let tablets in general I guess that’s usually all the stuff or use freaking melon factory lifters little work van has a Saint Panda theere as you are his big block Chevrolet in it, Car and Bennt are rod normal operating speed along with many other people I have consulted your online I don’t think the factory stuff is any better because it may be made by cop to you because my mom‘s got a 17 dodge charger 36 motor in it it’s got 170,000 miles on it if that will change religiously every 3000 miles and send that a coil Hey Siri call or at least synthetic blend put in it and it still has a lifter noise is it at Lasseter Department replace
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
@joebrock9784 I have a headache now. Most of that made no sense. Hemi tick is a totally different nightmare…
@ericlesher8454
@ericlesher8454 Жыл бұрын
Is there a way to do hardness test on the lifters? Checking now would be interesting. If you can check a new set, would be peace of mind.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Someone offered actually. I would have loved to send these - but we had to return them for a refund. I think with the right partner who has the equipment and knowledge to do this, and an assortment of different brands and vintages of lifters, that could be an amazing test. If I get a chance to put that together some time, I will!
@carebear2272
@carebear2272 Жыл бұрын
Ahhh I want to stop by and see your shop, looks like when my car is done from restoration I’m going to have to find someone to put my engine compartment back to factory, they got me worried because they called me today said my oil dipstick tube is the wrong one and is in a s shape, 8-/ I know that’s the right one for I took it off the dam car myself.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
That’s… interesting.
@kermets
@kermets Жыл бұрын
Please tell me those lifters werent the COM812-16 that i have on my bench ready to go in my fresh engine soon.....cheers Brett
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Weeeell…
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
take two and touch the lifter face to each other. they should rock a bit. if they go flat against each other....uh oh.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
@@frigglebiscuit7484 Just for the record, I did that with every lifter that went in this engine.
@tonyc223
@tonyc223 Жыл бұрын
Use a wheel cylinder hone on your lifter bores. Mark push rods and make sure they all turn. Use Hughes lifters.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Lifter bores were honed. I learned about marking pushrods in a previous comment and will do that moving forward.
@vincentenk4449
@vincentenk4449 Жыл бұрын
Watch those hydraulic roller lifters too. Freiburger just had a plunger fail on his big block Chevy.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Right. I’ve been hearing of problems with those too. There just is no perfect answer.
@vincentenk4449
@vincentenk4449 Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage I dunno, kinda liked ol' boys idea of a time machine & going back & buying up the world's supply of lifters! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@chrisw5837
@chrisw5837 Жыл бұрын
Uncle Tony had his fail on bottle rocket too, maybe not fail but clacking like all hell which caused his rockers to fail.
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
bought a voodoo cam 60103 for my 400 mopar and put howards lifters in it. didnt even break it in "properly". idle it for a little bit, then gave it 1500rpm a little bit. runs great, no problems. i wont use any other brand of lifters.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Rad. We’re trying to get a setup from Howard’s currently.
@aaronbarnes8938
@aaronbarnes8938 Жыл бұрын
Yeah this sucks to see. I lost my first and knock on wood only. Camshaft a little over a decade ago that was from Hugh's engines going by all their specs and their oil etc. Last flat tap that I ever did since then has been a roller in every build.
@Haffschlappe
@Haffschlappe 7 ай бұрын
Elgin pro Stock cams are fine
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage 7 ай бұрын
Are you aware that almost every single US brand’s camshafts originate from the same manufacturer? According to my research, Elgin is no different.
@Schlipperschlopper
@Schlipperschlopper 7 ай бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage I never had an Elgin cam with lobe fail
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage 7 ай бұрын
@@Schlipperschlopper and that’s great - I’m just letting you know. Also, from everything I have seen, the cams are not usually the problem - it’s poorly machined lifter crowns.
@flinch622
@flinch622 Жыл бұрын
The second guessing on warranties [read blame the customer] these days: better clean/inspect every cam lobe and lifter, and explore returns while its cheap & easy.
@stewarth8390
@stewarth8390 4 ай бұрын
Oh yeah, it’s all coming together…. Again 😂 It would be faulty machine work on the camshaft?
@dennisrichardson2577
@dennisrichardson2577 Жыл бұрын
Just my two cents here ,, the cams not the issue, find old stock lifters ! Older the better Js hood that helps
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
That was my main takeaway from this whole ordeal.
@twinturbocoyoteftw
@twinturbocoyoteftw Жыл бұрын
I used to love a flat tappet cam. Now I wouldn't own one. By the time you buy a decent cam and lifters a couple of time you could've bought a roller camshaft and retro-fit lifters!
@oscarwalton1188
@oscarwalton1188 Жыл бұрын
As a camshaft internet expert I'm going to say go roller cam lol
@TheDustyaman
@TheDustyaman Жыл бұрын
They are having a lot of issues also!!
@Hydrogenblonde
@Hydrogenblonde Жыл бұрын
Get a old oem camshaft and get a local machinist to regrind it. Get the same machinist to reface a set of lifters to suit.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
That’s one of the solutions I gave Tom. Haha.
@brettjohnson8009
@brettjohnson8009 Жыл бұрын
There aren't too many "local" machinists that can regrind a cam or lifters
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
@@brettjohnson8009 Re-reading the comment, great point - you need a reputable cam grinder. We actually still have one somewhat near to us (I think.) Not just any machinist can do this.
@ostrich67
@ostrich67 Жыл бұрын
Delta Cams in Tacoma WA has been doing that since the 50s, and they have a very informative KZbin channel. Some of the reasons why this is a problem include incorrect lifter crown, incorrect or even nonexistent cam lobe taper (ground for roller lifters) and overly aggressive cam grinds. They do offer a service for regrinding cams and lifters to make sure that they're correct.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
@@ostrich67 Yep. Delta is who I have been referring to when I say I know where one is. There is also one in the Portland area. I am planning to take Delta a good bit of business in the near future...
@ercost60
@ercost60 Жыл бұрын
Bummer, nobody knows what the cam/lifter problem is. Sorry to hear this bit you too. On the bright side, 1:14 Uncle Tony noticed you! I got a chuckle out of him at kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5PReqyCoaZ7iqc at 15:58 Powell Machining does some good cam videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGSbYXykn9KdiK8
@teagreen2220
@teagreen2220 Жыл бұрын
Seems sometimes like ever since roller cams became popular, a guy can’t get a correctly beveled and leaning camshaft for flat tappet anymore. Do you think manufacturers are selling roller camshafts as usable with flat tappet? The world has gone crazy
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I don’t know. I tried to check for taper but I didn’t have precision measuring equipment with me at the time. There was obvious taper on the Comp cam in the box.
@russriley3005
@russriley3005 Жыл бұрын
have you decked that block? could it be the angle on the pushrods holding the lifter in place? cupping?
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Not decked. All factory rocker gear, pushrods, heads. The pushrod angle is as close to stock as it possibly could be.
@terryzeissler4199
@terryzeissler4199 Жыл бұрын
I had a cusyomer who had a 455 Olds he rebuilt for a customer of his and wiped out 2 sets of cam & lifters during break in and was getting very frustrated. I told him to try Amsoil Z-Rod 10W-30 which is specifically for flat tappet cams. Worked like a charm, no more problems. Unfortuneatly todays oils do not have ZDDP for enviroment reasons and the fact that engines produced today all come with roller valve trains and do not require a high pressure lubricant. The other problem we have is that when we use aftermarket cams with higher lift and heavier valve springs we are going beyond what the original engineers had designed for. For a time I was the Technical Service Manager with a NAPA owned company that remanufactured engines for sale in Western Canada and the Pacific Northwest in the USA. I spent a lot of time dealing with engine installers with little previous experience or knowledge . Analyzing problems over the phone trying to take my experience with full scale engine analyzers and gas analyzers and boil ti down to what they had on hand, usually a vaccuum gauge, tachometer and timing light with sometimes a compression gauge. Fun times for all.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
You’re right, but I just want to respond and say 1) we were running Joe GIbbs Driven break in oil. I have gotten this comment a lot, so apparently I didn’t think to mention it in this video. I guess I figured it went without saying that we were running the right oil. It doesn’t. 2) we were running the most mild cam we could buy for this engine that was available quickly. Though I don’t remember precisely, it had roughly the same specs as the factory 383 HP cam, which is more aggressive than stock, but certainly doesn’t qualify as radical by today’s standards. I wish this could be boiled down to something obvious that I had done wrong as far as poor parts or oil selection or similar. I don’t think it can. There is another possible answer that did not make it into this series of videos. The engine first fired off quickly but the Holley was puking gas due to a blown power valve (brand new out of box days earlier,) the engine was visibly running rich and crappy and had to be shut down within 10-20 seconds. After diagnosing this we changed the carb out for our standby Carter, then fired it again and noticed it still ran rough. We found that #2 was cold with temperature gun. We shut it down again within a minute. After changing that wire, it ran well and made no noise for about eight minutes. But these fumbled starts may well have sealed the cam’s fate. I did not think to cover these details in this video series because it ran as well as it did without noise for as long as it did, and because I have had similar first fire problems in the past on engines that have gone on to live happy lives. I’ve been too lucky for too long, I think. Either way we cut the cake, I think we’re dealing with a new part quality problem.
@Anthony12valve440RB
@Anthony12valve440RB Жыл бұрын
Thats very disappointing because alot of my early builds i used Comp Cams and never had a problem. Now i been using Lunati and its been good.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Right. I’ve installed a good few myself. Heck, I just installed and broke in a 15 year old used Comp in my 360. We have them running in a lot of engines. I’m not saying that every part they’ve ever made is junk - or that they’re the only outfit making junk. But I’m definitely not impressed with this.
@Anthony12valve440RB
@Anthony12valve440RB Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage exactly you never what you will get. I’ve never had problems with anything but i know for sure ill never buy anything “ Eagle” especially the cranks thats some cheap material that will fail but i always see people put that in these mopars and blowing up the engines. but I’ve seen lifters whip out from rust inside the lifter bore and then when its time to break it in or just run the engine all the rust becomes sand paper and doing all kinds of damage getting the lifter stuck or pushing it through the system.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
@@Anthony12valve440RB I specifically explained that the lifters dropped in and spun free in this engine so people wouldn’t try to explain to me that my problem was in the bores. In fact they were honed by the machine shop to ensure no problems.
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage you cam probably didnt have the proper lobe taper ground in. not your fault at all.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
@@frigglebiscuit7484 I tried and failed to measure that as you saw in this video, but at least some lobes did seem to have a bit of taper. While I own precision measuring equipment, I work an hour from home, and never seem to have it when I need it. I'm also not much of a machinist 😅
@demogadget
@demogadget Жыл бұрын
Is a roller the way to go now?
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Funny enough, the third and final video about this disaster addressed that exact question - is a roller conversion the only solution? The answer was, well, maybe. It solves the flat tappet problem, but it also introduces another major element to the equation - cost. There is quite a bit more to it than just buying the cam and lifters and slamming them in there. And - roller lifters fail too… The other good option is to deal with a local cam grinding company directly, have what you want made, and your lifters re-faced. I have two such companies within about a two hour drive one direction or another, so this is definitely the way I’m going to be looking in the future. If you are going to run off the shelf parts, they need to be precisely measured for lobe taper and lifter crown. This isn’t something that can be taken for granted anymore.
@demogadget
@demogadget Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage Thans. That is some good info. If you are lucky you can find New Old Stock without the chinesium and better quality inspection. I live in Holland so roller is a little extra expensive :P. That's why I'm forced to the GM material, but love the 350sb.
@rooster68able
@rooster68able Жыл бұрын
Man flat tappet cams are a thing of the past ! There is no money$ left in them major auto makers stopped 30 yrs ago, so no one make a quality anything anymore , only way I would put one in is if was oem nos from 40 yrs ago of shelf ,then you won't even have to brake it in!
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
you got 1200 bucks for a roller cam retrofit kit?
@ramar231
@ramar231 11 ай бұрын
With all these flat tapet cam failures, another thing to keep in mind is that all newer regular and synthetic oils no longer contain Sulphur which is necessary to keep lifters rotating, so the next best thing is that at each oul change you'll need to add break in oil.IMHO
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage 11 ай бұрын
I think you mean ZDDP. It’s something I’ve talked about a lot in various videos.
@mopartony7953
@mopartony7953 9 ай бұрын
What break-in oil was used?
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage 9 ай бұрын
Joe Gibbs
@dirkdigler9336
@dirkdigler9336 Жыл бұрын
Uncle Tool Bag Tony!!!
@trojan440
@trojan440 Жыл бұрын
Makes me feel really bad for trashing original lifters from my 440. Really bad luck. Made more questions than answers. Solution is switch to expensive rollers.😮😮
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
There may be alternative brand lifters that are less bad. Johnson and Howard’s are both apparently pretty good. But roller is definitely the best answer.
@44hawk28
@44hawk28 Жыл бұрын
I would be willing to bet that it's a cam problem and probably sometimes with the lifters when the Metallurgy isn't quite right but it is further exacerbated by the fact that they quench it after it has cooled too much. I actually saw the General Motors facility in Michigan that was hanging the cams while they were still red-hot from the nose end and. You didn't up with a 6 cylinder. You can't put enough oil on a Can-Am to make that not happen. Honda even had trouble with their saber engine, anyting over the 500cc V4, the 750 and the 1100 would wipe out their calves, they didn't figure it out until the people in Europe we're taking the wiped out cams and Welding them back up with high chromium welding rod and in recutting the cams and not having any more trouble. They kept adding more and more loyal to him and they were still wiping them out. You have to get the cam to a certain brittleness for it to last. From the look of those letters, they are way too soft, and may not have been crowned properly. Surprisingly, the cam doesn't actually look too bad. What those letters definitely took their toll on that cam.
@gasser66
@gasser66 Жыл бұрын
There are two donkeys where I keep my horse. One is sweet as pie, the other one so much and he's really LOUD lol.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yeah these are the loud kind 🤣
@paulwells4203
@paulwells4203 7 ай бұрын
That Lego set seems to have closer tolerances and harder material than the cam and lifters.
@Mr.mopar71
@Mr.mopar71 Жыл бұрын
I believe that all of that is inferior steel and bad quench treatment. I'm no expert but I grab as much info on anything relevant.
@maxattack3648
@maxattack3648 Жыл бұрын
Have the rockers tested for Rockwell hardness. I bet the lifters were never hardened
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Someone offered to do this, and I wish I could’ve taken them up on it - but we had to send them back for a refund. Honestly, knowing what I know now, I’m not thinking this was a metallurgy problem. I think it was a pile of different factors. But I would’ve liked to have known the hardness to be sure.
@maxattack3648
@maxattack3648 Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage Probally better you didnt have them tested, if they heated up during their destruction, and they most likley did. The heat treatment could have changed. The best way to test heat treatment I think would be before they are installed.
@m1a1hm
@m1a1hm Жыл бұрын
OK I'll say it Comp Cams such now a days and i hate to say but i put one in my 68 Plymouth Satellite 383 about 15 years ago so now I'm starting to worry but I guess if it was going to fail it would have done it by now.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
There is always a chance of a lifter sticking eventually - but what we really have to worry about these days is these new parts failing immediately because they just suck.
@m1a1hm
@m1a1hm Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage O I 100 percent agree!!
@michaelstrafello7346
@michaelstrafello7346 Жыл бұрын
The wear on the lobe i believe should be on the side of the lobe
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Off to the one side - that’s my thinking.
@reginaldhall6871
@reginaldhall6871 Жыл бұрын
I've heard so much about Comp Cams being trash & failing. Are their lifters failing or just being blamed because they've been used more often by builders?
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Really good question. Thing I’ve learned is, they don’t even make their own lifters. Essentially all flat tappet lifters come from the same outfit. So that’s fun.
@reginaldhall6871
@reginaldhall6871 Жыл бұрын
@DeadDodgeGarage I've heard the same thing about lifter manufacturers. I've even heard of lifters failing after 2,500 miles, which sounds very weird to me. I'm getting ready to start a fresh motor with a Comp in it
@cesareomendez6794
@cesareomendez6794 11 ай бұрын
Comp cams = junk.
@cobramike13bravo63
@cobramike13bravo63 Жыл бұрын
Building a time machine to go back to the 80s and buy the world supply of flat tappet lifters and become a billionaire overnight.
@Roosters_Restos
@Roosters_Restos Жыл бұрын
Ok as we have had a few calls on this let me be clear about walmart/comp cams. Most of the cams are ok. Some are not. This is not a cam weakness issue but rather soft none tempered lifter metal. The two metals need to have the same hardness. Now you can clearly see how soft the lifter metal was as the cam carved through them in 20min run time. This is a very common problem from comp crap. Now in there defence they sell thousands of cams and many live a happy life. They live because because equal metal hardness in the lifters. Comp buying bubbas budjet lifters from the lowest bidder is the issue. As i told tom go to 440 sourse to get howards. Or isky or lunati or anyone but comp. But there availability issues as he found out fast. Now jegs saying they stock parts is laughable. The ship from the manif. Thus why they said will send it next week lol. Oh as for that shaving you found ya know when you go to the butcher store and they slice the ham thin. Ya like that. Now take that oil pickup and send it into the dumpster and get a new one. There is no true way to clean them. You are lucky in one aspect. It failed on the stand. I have seen this at 1000 miles or 10,000. Then the oil is real lumpy gravy because they had to drive home and to me. Explain that to a customer but wear body armor.😂 remember metal flake is good in paint but not in oil.😂
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yep - my thoughts exactly. It looks like soft lifters just going to shit. I think the cam would have lived if the lifters didn’t decide to reduce themselves to their original component parts… we are trying to get Howard’s. When he said “Jegs says it will ship in eight days” I laughed out loud. We’ll see…
@Roosters_Restos
@Roosters_Restos Жыл бұрын
@Dead Dodge Garage jegs sucks. When the old man ran it back in the day it was good. I won't buy anything from them anymore. Oh ya we have it in stock is bull feathers. Summit is way better about being honest on what they stock. 440 source is the best. Even year one lies. Now why I use Mancini is because I left jegs 30yrs ago. I deal with a rep not some online crap. As for lifters being soft it's a problem. I like soft pillows and cake but lifters not so much. Be glad it was not a roller that went bad. That's carnage. Been there done that
@rickbaker9053
@rickbaker9053 Жыл бұрын
In reality the metals should not have the same hardness....I worked in tool and die and you always used a different hardnes.for your slides if you didn't scoring would happen
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
ive never torn and engine down after it wiped a cam. oil filter is there for a reason.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
To catch all of the metal that’s raining down on your crank and getting winged everywhere? It’ll catch some stuff… but not all of it. We got pretty lucky in this case. Apparently you’ve been lucky so far too.
@nelloagostini4389
@nelloagostini4389 Ай бұрын
They were definitely not spinning the one you cought in the act of failing shows that. I just put asbc together and sent back two sets of lifters first set arrived damaged in shipping the second set I measured the crown and it was allover the place. Nobody gives a crap about flat tappet cams anymore and that's why the QC is gone
@thomasward4505
@thomasward4505 Жыл бұрын
So is there another problem with roller lifters and cam other than the cost? And you have not really mentioned the oil is part of the issue
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I absolutely have covered the type of oil that is supposed to be used, but not in this video specifically.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Cost, complexity, the amount of work and science that goes into using the roller. It’s more than just spending money - but the money is a big part of the equation for me.
@MP-pz9oe
@MP-pz9oe Жыл бұрын
Iam shoping for a new roller lifter cam for the the same price as a hydraulic, Do you know of any ?
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
They are not the same price…
@calliekushmerek41
@calliekushmerek41 Жыл бұрын
It looks like porosity in the cam.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
It sure looks that way in places - but I’m told that’s due to the coating they use. It doesn’t seem to actually be porous or have a weird feeling surface texture. At least it didn’t when it was new.
@dantupper1784
@dantupper1784 Жыл бұрын
Thats really disappointing. I noticed the overall wear pattern on the surviving cam lobes, and the one random 'good lifter' you demonstrated that still had a crown. In QA work, standards are set- is one 'dud' lifter per 1600 (100 V8 cams) worth the one wiped out cam? 3 lifters on the same cam means there is no QA to speak of. Period.
@peteloomis8456
@peteloomis8456 Жыл бұрын
The cams are probably made in China now so that being said they could care less about the quality being they know it's going to American cars and trucks . The only thing they care about is our money that they use to build a bigger military with plus they steal and copy a lot of our designed things . One of the things that happens when a US company decides to leave it's roots in America and decides to go move the business to China is that once that happens they take control of the business and get to keep all the existing technology that's used to design and make these items be it car parts or anything that this once US company makes which is a huge mistake but this happens when you get business owners that get money greedy and will do anything for more money and power unfortunately and you can bet that a lot of our politicians are also making money off of this because they are the ones who thought it would be good to send a lot of our jobs overseas which is the worst thing we could have done .
@dantupper1784
@dantupper1784 Жыл бұрын
@@peteloomis8456 Oddly enough, no. Watched vids from several professional engine builders- their reputation rides on every engine. They checked the dimensions and rockwell hardness of large groups of cams- all to spec. There are letters cast in
@dantupper1784
@dantupper1784 Жыл бұрын
Darn cat... There are 4 US companies that cast and machine the cams for most cam companies- they have cast-in symbols and letters on the cam cores giving the ID of the manufacturer. So between the stamped-in info and the casting ID there is parts tracibility. Lifters on the other hand....
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
@@peteloomis8456 nope. ALL cam cores are made in america. cwc is common, made in michigan. they are hardened properly. the problem is when cam companies grind cam profiles and forget to put the taper in the lobe to SPIN the lifter. also, lifters should rock when the two surfaces are placed against each other.
@hr9781
@hr9781 Жыл бұрын
this video was classic
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Purchased through Atech/Summit, and they have agreed to give us a refund. So that’s the good news… but it doesn’t exactly cover the rest of the time we’ve dumped into it.
@OldDime
@OldDime Жыл бұрын
Something has definitely changed over the years. Used to be I could toss a cam and lifters in an engine and not have to worry about break in beyond avoiding idling for long periods or high rpm for the first couple of hours, change the oil and you'd be good to go. I'm really curious to hear an assessment of DLC coated lifters that are supposed to have solved the problem.
@chrishensley6745
@chrishensley6745 Жыл бұрын
So True man.....remember guys that did not even know you had to do it!! and it still lived.
@Sami.Makela
@Sami.Makela Жыл бұрын
Does anyone know that did they break the cams in the factory back in the days when cars had flat tapped cams?
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I don’t know what the process was at the factory. I’ll see if I can find that information.
@Sami.Makela
@Sami.Makela Жыл бұрын
Thanks. That would be intresting to know. 👍
@frigglebiscuit7484
@frigglebiscuit7484 Жыл бұрын
ive talked to many old timers, they didnt. my dad said he NEVER broke flat tappet cams in back in the day. just idled it and gave it a few seconds of 1500 rpm now and then.
@Sami.Makela
@Sami.Makela Жыл бұрын
Could it be that they had so much better quality lifters and cams back then and didn't really need a specific break in procedure.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
@@Sami.Makela they absolutely had better quality parts, and I know break-in was less critical. Many commenters have said so. But I haven't been able to find any specific information on factory procedures yet.
@MrPFFlyer
@MrPFFlyer Жыл бұрын
@12:52 I've never seen a cam finish like that, but my name isn't Racer Brown either. For anyone with inquisitive automotive minds, FBO ignition, a distributor of Racer Brown cams, still has a website with good tech articles within it. Not sure they actually do cams anymore or not...just sharing for informational purposes only.
@MrPFFlyer
@MrPFFlyer Жыл бұрын
liked the guitar riffs and hooks during engine tear down 👍
@stevenfan1218
@stevenfan1218 Жыл бұрын
I no what the problem is.there not as good anymore.and no zinc in the oil..have had this same problems..just make sure you use break in lube on that cam.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
We were running very expensive high zinc break in oil. I wish I had said that in this video, because many people have left the same comment.
@ronaldrey8474
@ronaldrey8474 Жыл бұрын
My stomach turned , I'm sorry & Birdsong was blaming Chinese Lifters (I'm sure you're aware) May I ask you if the cam break-in additives (zink I think) make a difference because?? I didn't hear you mention it , but I could of missed that part Jamie. EPA removing dinosaur stuff from oil (zinc etc ..) for cat. converter longevity has me wondering this & Chinese Lifters combined is destroying Cams ? Birdsong found diff. lifters too but I'm still wondering if it's the oil that changed in late 90's
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
This was using high quality Driven break in oil. I didn’t discuss that in the video and have gotten many comments about it as a result. My bad.
@ronaldrey8474
@ronaldrey8474 Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage it's totally okay & not hating at all. Please continue with more Mopar content & others...
@duanedahl8856
@duanedahl8856 Жыл бұрын
My best friend just lost a cam in his boat. 429 ford. Ran for a bit, then pulled the heads a few weeks later to switch to aluminum heads and wham O. F**ked cam shit..totally sucks...I really kinda wanted to try my Hughes Solid flat tappet cam in my 496, but I may run a Howard's hydraulic roller I got laying around instead....our hobby sucks right now
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Yeah… it’s tough.
@pauljanssen7594
@pauljanssen7594 Жыл бұрын
Is an engine builder mechanic self-taught engineer I learned how to build engines the first time the right way checking clearances checking quality parts carefully assembly tricks I do not tell other people I always reworked the distributors and carburetors I know how to shut cam timing not by the timing marks but by the cam get self one-time the marks were in the wrong place on engine put together probably shut the nisshin timing so it's only two degrees off when you started or right on the money most the time I don't even have to move to distributor or even too much with the carburetor I running man for about a half an hour 10 minutes more when I need to shut it down two or three times just to check the water and oil when I go test drive the crap out of it. Remember Dodge people but has a high-performance ignition rotor Mo 3000 when you get it you know why this road'll gives you more power to your spark plugs That's all folks have a good day.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I always set the ignition timing before starting, but no matter what I do, it’s always more retarded than I think it is. I don’t know what rotor you’re talking about.
@TargaWheels
@TargaWheels Жыл бұрын
Check that new cam for a crown. Whatever new cam and lifters you put in, check that before installation too. Manufacturers are cheaping-out on material/production to maximize profits. Just my opinion.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I will. I checked the first set of lifters for crown. I didn’t try to measure lifter taper.
@fastinradfordable
@fastinradfordable Жыл бұрын
I like you. Keep it up.
@brianandglendaharkin9457
@brianandglendaharkin9457 Жыл бұрын
🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫Juck every where. Only NOS is any good 👍🏻🇦🇺💯⛽️
@dirtlump
@dirtlump Жыл бұрын
The usual checklist: Oil W/Zinc and immediate maintenance of higher rpm 1800-2200(varied) upon fireup..... V/Spring pressures no more than 2880'ish Lbs 'over the nose' at peak Cam Lift. Autopsy diagnostics: Put Lifters in V Blocks on Mill and verify radius, minimum .001" to .0015" from center out to edge Put Cam in V Blocks on Mill and verify Lobe Taper(Call Comp Cams and ask for their spec).... expect usual garbage Assess under strong white light for "brinnelling' appearance across Lobes suggestive of poor Cam Grinding Stone abrasion(not trued) prior to grinding. Those are the "lines' running parallel to the length of the Cam across individual Cam Lobes. WE DO ALL OF THE ABOVE prior to assembly. Piston/Pin 'tight' in one or more Pistons upon disassembly is too be expected...... when NOT Pin-Fitting prior to assembly. They typically Gall one or more upon fireup.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Joe Gibbs break in oil. RPM, check - except for a stumble off start up due to carburetor problem (bad new power valve out of rebuild kit, pouring gas down throat.) Wimpy valve springs. Obviously, I don’t have the capability to perform the checks you described.
@maximuswedgie5149
@maximuswedgie5149 Жыл бұрын
Metallurgy and fabrication are my background for many years. I would love to take all of those to a metallurgy lab and run an RC check on different points across the surface. Then compare it to a brand that you actually like. They use a diamond to press it to see the hardness. Metals that are hard or measured on a C scale. Softer are B scale ( Brinell). This company is probably facing a lawsuit sooner or later. I would love to do testing on something like this and help put a stop to them being able to sell components like this..
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
I would love to send you one! I’m really, really curious. I am not an expert but personally think the hardness of the lifters is likely at fault. Unfortunately we have to send them back for a refund.
@doomman700
@doomman700 Жыл бұрын
I would love to know how much case depth is left in the cam and lifters.
@maximuswedgie5149
@maximuswedgie5149 Жыл бұрын
@@doomman700 me too brother, I wish I could get my hands on some of these failed parts. I have a great relationship with the lab here in Colorado. They actually would do an RC check for free. The report would have the case depth’s , but I would need something to compare it to.
@maximuswedgie5149
@maximuswedgie5149 Жыл бұрын
@@DeadDodgeGarage hi Jaime, I’m sorry this happened to you, it sounds like you’re not the only one, this really pisses me off when I see stuff like this. Part of my background is also outsourcing to other countries. Dealing with metallurgical failures and R&D is what I did for the concrete pump industry for over 15 years. We would want to replicate German parts in China, when I got the parts back, they looked identical, they looked fantastic actually. Until I took them to the lab. This is weird it was a night and day difference. The reason is is because putting the proper medals in what is the least of their concerns. It was all optics. If you have someone at that company that rhymes with stomp, that doesn’t know what they’re doing when they’re purchasing these parts this is exactly what happens when it gets distributed to the public. They should’ve done three separate laboratories and got a consensus of all three. If you ever get your hands on one of these again I would love to take a look at it and give you a full report. Or anyone out there wants to send me one. Unfortunately, I would need a good one to compare it to, just like the other comment, said to check and compare the case depth and hardness is what’s necessary.
@thomaslynch2083
@thomaslynch2083 Жыл бұрын
Do new break in with windage tray
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Remove tray for better splash oiling? I had the thought that it might be reducing the amount of oil the crank can pick up.
@oneeyedcat3072
@oneeyedcat3072 Жыл бұрын
Building my own 440 in the near future. Lifters nowadays has me worried.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
Be careful out there… I’ve heard Johnson brand is good, and Hughes has them in stock.
@miketaylor7487
@miketaylor7487 11 ай бұрын
With B/RB Mopars one can remove valley pan and confirm that all the lifters are rotating on initial start up. That way the issue can be found in the first 10-20 seconds before any damage can occur. I discovered this issue with #2 exhaust lifter not rotating. Better to clean up some splashed oil in the engine bay vs completely disassembling and cleaning the engine. kzbin.infoz3nYkNRW7NI?si=j2Wk5lkdtKz2h-Kg
@staceyrenner5418
@staceyrenner5418 Жыл бұрын
"Stomp" really needs to stop making cams and lifters out of pressed tinfoil. Not too sure about other manufacturers, but I've heard nothing good about their product over the past couple of years.
@robertkoenig1187
@robertkoenig1187 Жыл бұрын
A product of crappy material. I have had similar issues with comp and crane's. I only use hydraulic roller cams and lifters now.
@carlokerblom770
@carlokerblom770 7 ай бұрын
Don’t use stomp for cams and lifters if u know what I mean 👍👍👍
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage 7 ай бұрын
Oh… I know what you mean. Haha. I came to the same conclusion.
@codyhollinger6531
@codyhollinger6531 Жыл бұрын
Has anyone had success with Comp cams. Two fails for me.
@DeadDodgeGarage
@DeadDodgeGarage Жыл бұрын
We have, actually. A lot of successes - and now one failure… but it’s enough to leave a bad taste in your mouth.
@RustyFuel
@RustyFuel 11 ай бұрын
So sad. I will play a funeral dirge
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