Lightweight? Heavyweight? Why Should YOU Care? | Trumpet Demystified Episode 4

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thanks for all the support on this series, everyone! This episode is a little 'heavier' (heh) than usual, so please do ask any lingering questions or provide your own experiences in the comments below. Professor Sam's office is always open ;)

[@surrealsnow4649]

Would the weight be the reason for choosing different metals as you talked about in the last episode or is it other properties of the metals?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

@@surrealsnow4649 That is one often unintended consequence of material selection! It’s generally not the reason for choosing different metals, though. If you check out episode 3 you’ll get to hear about the sonic properties of various metals. It has more to do with hardness and other factors than density.

[@surrealsnow4649]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thank you! I actually already watched episode 3 (2 is the only one I haven’t seen yet) and found it very informative! I must have not been paying enough attention to the “hardness” factor and just assumed it was due to weight. Also, some time in the future I would love to see a double blind test of things like different weights and materials. Maybe have another musician in the room and see what they think!

[@louramoreira]

Height it’s misunderstood…. Visual effects of “heavyweight” don’t means Heavy. In fact it’s the thickness and different alloys that defines Light vs. Heavier. Light can project, but should disperse … Heavier should need more “psychological” effort from the player (psycho ‘ because player try to translate his head sound goals and desires), but it can carry’s the sound projection much farther. Heavier looses high frequencies, light loose the lower, the bottom harmonic frequencies, in a acoustic way. Triggers works like Braces…. Like rings, Caps …. Yours “Stability”. Most brands confuse the players (because if the Marketing involved), but The most effective CAPS, besides the aesthetics, are the Upper Caps , because of the lightweight Cluster’s and valve block construction. Nowadays mouthpieces tend to have more deep cups, large throats and open backbores… without increasing the weight (that was taken away) the so called Stability will decrease and the “light machine” will be unbalanced. Therefore, the main reason of a “increased” Receiver. Comparing a shallow Cup mouthpiece, like 14A4A “lead” can have the same height or more than a 14E4D “symphonic” piece. Choosing the right spots, increase or decrease height (besides the Alloy and his thickness m) can makes huge impact on instrument. It’s all about balance. Light can be Bright, Heavier can be Dull, From this point, the way of players blow and his specific job, will define everything. We can have a “visual” regular standard Heavier, and a aesthetically “heavier trucker” and be very lighter.

[@samkasjan217]

wedge?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Never had the chance to try.

[@TheMrAshley2010]

I tried several Wedge trumpet mouthpieces. ( I play both trumpet and trombone.) They felt VERY strange to me on my face. That is to say, I did not mind the cup, throat and backbore. But I could not get comfortable with the rim. I have been on "mouthpiece safaris" all my life. So I know what I like and what I don't like. After playing (and liking) a Schilke 18C3D mouthpiece for quite a while, I moved to a Warburton Series 80 (heavy weight) 1SV. The rim is more like a Bach. And I still like the Schilke rim. But when I go back to Schilke as an experiment, I end up liking the Warburton best.

[@carlosperez120]

I love your videos and your channel, man! Specially this series. I like to get nerd about brass instruments. Thank you so much for your work and dedication. I have some question, but maybe I'll wait to the next videos. Greetings from Mexico!

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thank you for your kind words! I’m glad you are enjoying this series. Anytime you’d like to ask questions, feel free.

[@javierblanco7467]

Great content, high quality, clear, and very dense in terms of information. Recently, I've started to play a Courtois Evolution 1 (ca late 90s?). It's a heavy weight trumpet with many of the design elements mentioned in your analysis (e.g., valve caps) plus some rather wide "plates" à la Monette. It's a great horn with unique sound and playing characteristics. I can now appreciate it even more, thanks to you. Best.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thank you for your comment, Javier! I think Courtois is responsible for some of the best-designed instruments in the industry, but admittedly I have only gotten to play on standard-weight trumpets made by them. I’m interested to try a similar model to yours and see how my experience pans out.

[@richardbrotzman3152]

Samuel, just finished kind of watching this while I was multi-tasking at the office, and noticed your preference for a very lightweight Yamaha. In my small trumpet collection, my lightest horn is an old Los Angeles Benge 3X (circa 1977). It's noticeably lighter than my Mt. Vernon Bach Strad, and even lighter than my '75 Bach Strad Model 43 that has both lightweight body and bell, and definitely a LOT lighter than my Conn Vintage One with sterling silver bell that I also have heavy bottom caps on (thing is really heavy, but I love its sound). I was just curious if you were familiar with the old Los Angeles Benge 3X trumpets, and how the weight compares to your Yamaha? Thanks.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Hey Richard, unfortunately I’ve never really taken the time to weigh a trumpet, so I can’t compare actual numbers here. Additionally, I don’t think that a model 3X is among the Benges I have played. It sounds like a fun horn. What I will say is that even a lightweight horn has to be done very carefully. Yes, my Yamaha 8310Z is quite light, but if it had the same specs as a Bach 37 and the only difference was that the Yamaha was lighter, it would produce quite a harsh tone. The 8310Z makes up for the lighter construction in several ways-a larger bell flare, an extra-conical reverse leadpipe preceding a step-bore design, and ultimately the M bore valve tubing has thicker walls than ML tubing because it hasn’t been machined out as much. EDIT: I really didn’t address your question as well as I should have after I started rambling. I’ve liked Benges overall (I think I’ve tried 4 or 5, including the Claude Gordon model) but they do tend towards somewhat of a bright tone for my liking. Kind of old-school 70s jazz/lead sound, if I had to try to put my finger on it. The one exception was a Frankenhorn constructed from an L-bore .464” Benge body and a massive 6” tuning bell off a Martin Committee designed for Mic Gillette of Tower of Power fame. That horn, of course, was much different from any other Benge I’d played. It could scream, and with a lot of volume too, but it had much less sting in the sound and its slots were looser. It was capable of playing VERY dark.

[@richardbrotzman3152]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass I've been told the Benge 3X is a great jazz horn, so your assessment that it's a brighter tone is probably not off the mark. I have a friend who has an old Claude Gordon model, but he's never given me the opportunity to play it. I believe the 3X was the most common model Benge in the 70s, just as the Model 37 is the most common Bach Strad. I've also been told that Benge trumpets made after the UMI buy-out in the early 80s just aren't the same as the older Burbank and Los Angeles horns. So, the vintage of the Benge you played may also have made a difference. UMI Benge trumpets can be identified by the fact that the bell simply says USA instead of Burbank or Los Angeles.

[@leddybearrr]

Loving the series

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Glad to hear it!

[@Luisxpro10]

Wow. What incredible knowledge and wisdom! Thank you for creating these video’s, we trumpet players need this information to be as efficient as possible in our craft 😎👍🏽

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thank you for your kind words, Luis! That is indeed my hope with this series.

[@robbicu]

Starting to get a little hairy. hahaha!

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Tough to squeeze a haircut into such a packed schedule!

[@richardmason7107]

It's great to see that someone else uses an old style spool holder as a mouthpiece holder.

[@seth094978]

I've seen some people, especially natural trumpet folks, who swear by seamed and hand formed tubing. Do you think the resulting radial thickness inconsistencies might make for an instrument where bending notes affects the tone less? Perhaps the slight randomness might spread the tonal sweet spot a little bit?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

I think that’s a good theory. At the very least, you do get a mix of tonal nodal points-some of the benefits of a thinner bell with some of the damping and wider frequency spectra of a thicker one. I didn’t explain this part well in the video unfortunately, and I still can do little besides make an educated guess, but I could see there being some benefits. It turns out electroformed bells with virtually no radial thickness inconsistencies can have a very sterile tone.

[@Wanielyo]

Would you say that more mass in the mouthpiece and trumpet make the instrument more efficient with the energy? So that after you’ve overcome the inertia to start a note, less of the energy you put in gets lost, because the air vibrates inside a more stable casing. It’s definitely about striking a balance, as with everything in trumpet, but it helps to see the effects of extreme variations in both directions.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

For me it feels precisely that way, but some ultimately feel less mass on the mouthpiece is more “efficient.” Like you said, the fact that the total mass of the system is so important means that oftentimes there isn’t one clear answer. My trumpet is very light so I tend to sound and feel a lot better on heavyweight mouthpieces.

[@peternaryd_operasinger]

Great and interesting video Samuel!🤗👍👍

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thank you!

[@peternaryd_operasinger]

You're so welcome!🤗

[@degelepassant1186]

Don't you think that the "more mass" equals more "efficiency" thing, is better achieved when the mass is increased at the begining of the instrument than at the end of it?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

I do think that, but different people's experiences with the concept are too subjective for me to be able to make a blanket statement like that. Not everybody has access to a lightweight instrument so as to make a lightweight mouthpiece feasible. Let's face it: a lot of the time, sticking a Megatone mouthpiece or a booster on an already fairly heavy instrument like a stock Stradivarius 180S37 ML creates a 'dead' feel for the player.

[@degelepassant1186]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass So, you are sticking a Megatone in a light trumpet, and I always liked a rigid rather heavy slide (trombone wise, nikel silver slide) on a light bell than the reverse...

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

@@degelepassant1186 That is correct. I like my lightweight Yamaha 8310Z for that reason among many others. I had never considered a nickel silver trombone slide, however. Seems like an interesting premise.