Lightweight vs Full Power eMTB

[@PaulMoody]

Excellent video. I ride a full power Turbo Levo and live in the mountains of Vermont. I’ve riden friends SL bikes and have this advice for those choosing full or SL. Those I know who love SL bikes tend to be folks who enjoy fast downhills and jumps. Those who love scrambling up steep rooty rocky technical climbs find the full power a blast. As a60+/older rider, I prefer climbing, going slow and staying close to the ground, so full power does it for me. And as a bonus, wrestling the weight of the full power bike balances out my workout - working both upper and lower body, not just the legs. Either way, an emtb will put a smile on your face - don’t wait, get one today.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thank you for the positive feedback and the detailed input. The more I ride, the more I realize that I love my full power bike. I’ve still got my Amish bike for downhill shredding after all 😎

[@ckMTB]

Great video, excellent commentary and great clips, it was very interesting and helpful, thank you for that. Have fun on the bike buddy. Ride on

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks Christoph! Time to start saving for that e-bike of your dreams 😉

[@Po.2013]

Changed Levo for Kenevo SL and i love it!

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Cool. I didn’t even know they did a Kenevo SL!

[@Po.2013]

​@@TrailTrackerSwitzerland yes they do, and these bikes are amazing. DH/Enduro bike with a small motor!

[@TrailTales]

Nice work mate! I've spend a bit if time on that SL and found it to be great. Took care of an 11km 550hm (ish) climb in around 32mins... So they can deffo put their foot down on the ups if they need to. And they are heaps of fun on the downs. I also managed just over 70km on a charge... But if you wanna get rowdy on it, you can expect about 40 odd km safely. Found it to be a good compromise between being assisted, and not "killing" the ride quality... :D

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks man. I was certainly really impressed by how quickly I felt at home on the Levo SL, especially considering how tricky the conditions were. I'm not sure how easy those steep and slippery trails would have been on a heavier bike.

[@TrailTales]

@@TrailTrackerSwitzerland I've been on a good few different Spesh bikes and they're all like that. Very easy to get on with... Except the new Stumpy. I found that to be the most eccentric (if that's the right word to describe it) of the fleet. Where as all the other bikes felt instantly at home on all my local trails, the new stumpy was the most "niche"...

[@aknmtbr]

This is why I am buying an orbea rise hydro!

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

I so need to get my hands on an Orbea Rise. I've heard so many good things about them.

[@ErLo202]

Hi, loved the video and your comment. I ride a Levo gen 1 for 5 years. Great bike and loved it. The main problem in my situation is that i have to ride a lot on tarmac and fire roads to get to the fun tracks. The speedlimit is the issue. Last week I did a ride on the Rise H. Perfect for me, no trouble when going over the speedlimit and no problem on the climbs due to the 60Nm power.

[@rcapilli]

This is a great video. Thanks for explaining it and THEN showing video. That really helps me get a better understanding. From this video, I think the SL will be the better tool for where/how I ride. #subscribed

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks Rob. Glad to have been able to help 😉

[@bigdog6624]

The answer is simple. If you are a fit, experienced XC/trail mountain biker (you actually like going up and downhill) and looking for a +1 bike to have some serious fun, a big suspension lightweight wins hands down. If you are a not-so-fit weekender, suffering from medical problems, or a chair-lifter, chances are you do not have the power in your legs and lungs to climb the really nasty technical stuff, which means go for the full power. Coming from the XC side, I have always made a compromise between weight and suspension because I love to climb. Now I have a Transition Relay with 160mm of travel that has opened up a new world of hardcore riding. Combined with my own legs and lungs, I reduced the power on all three modes because the bike is simply overpowered, even on the super crazy technical climbs. For the lowest setting, I have almost perfectly matched the Relay to feel like my XC bike when climbing, talk about the best of both worlds! My advice to the manufacturers. Stop marketing the lightweights to the bike park crowd wanting to get more runs in on their local trails and go after the XC crowd who lives to climb the impossible and has always been jealous of big suspicion bikes going downhill. Footnote, doing hill repeats with the motor turned off on a lightweight makes for some serious training to develop power.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Sounds like you’re a lot fitter than me, so I think I’ll stick to my full powered ebike for assisted rides. I’ve still got the enduro for when I want to make my life harder and get some training in.

[@HallMarc_Trails]

Great video mate, great clips, i can vouch for the full fat being grounded as i did borrow a friends once, not tried a lightweight one, great comparisons, nice one 👍

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks mate. It was really interesting to try out and see how different they are.

[@gavindean]

Very interesting vid Darren, I think it also depends on where you live, here in Switzerland its a 1000m climb from the front door, and a lot of trails in the alps have super long rocky descents, yes the steep tight sections with switchbacks can be a chalange, But the reason I ride the E and not my DH is the challenge of the impossible climb hopefully in the future we will get full fat on a diet. Keep the vids coming!!👍👍😁

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Cheers Gav. I agree. A lighter battery in a full powered bike is something I would like to see in the future.

[@gabby07001]

I LOVE LOVE MY HECKLER! SUCH A FUN BIKE!

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Now that’s a bike I’d like to test ride!

[@stantaur]

Have you ridden an Orbea Rise yet? Make sure you have it in Profile 2 to get the full 60 Nm in Boost mode (Profile 1 gives only 47 Nm in Boost). And if that's not enough power for you, some folks use ST Unlocker that can bump max power above 60 Nm closer to 75-85 (although that high gets iffy with the battery support and likely risks warranty).

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

I would love to test ride a Rise, but there aren’t many test bikes available at the moment and I don’t really have enough time to go hunting one down. As soon as one of my local shops has one available or I’m somewhere where I can rent one, I’ll be on it 😎

[@ElectricMountainBiker]

Great video mate amd full of really valid points, like you for me full fat is the better option at moment. Like you would love a lightweight ebike in my stable, but cost prevents that. Great video mate 👍

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks mate. What wouldn't we have if money wasn't an issue? 😜

[@ElectricMountainBiker]

@@TrailTrackerSwitzerland 🤣🤣 a house in Switzerland would be on that list as well for sure 👊🏻

[@MTBScotland]

Was discussing this with Andrew (mctrail rider) last Sunday. The Orbea Rise H looks like a great offering between lightweight and full fat. In the next couple of years you are going to see significant improvements to battery technology. Motors are not the area that is going to see development. lighter batteries or batteries with more power for the same weight. The major thing that puts me off an ebike currently is the warranty of the motor and battery. If you get a failure some don't extend the warranty past the original which is shit.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

It'll be interesting to see whether companies decide to increase range or reduce weight as batteries get lighter. Personally, I'd be in favour of keeping the same power as a full fat bike and reducing the weight, but as with everything, I'm sure opinions will vary wildly. Reliability is a big issue with e-bikes - I got stung by that with my first one, which is why I chose a Bosch battery and motor the second time round - they seem to have a much better record in terms of durability.

[@SubaruWRC1996]

Ordred a specialized turbo levo. Be my first full sus and first ebike but I want comfort and max power possible

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

That’s exactly the conclusion I came to 😉 I’m sure you won’t regret it 👍

[@sergepanasuk5655]

In addition to the terrain you ‘normally’ ride I think most review forget to mention rider weight. I weigh 90 kg and my wife 60. A fullfat for her is a beast, the power to weight ratio is important .58 nm/kg vs .94nm/kg (not considering the bike weight diff) the power to weight ratio difference is 62 %. 35vs 85 nm is 41 % of the power. 60/90 is 66% my weight. The power ratio difference is much closer to the weight difference than of the available torque difference. At 66% of my weight an Sl offers my wife 62% of my fulfat power/weight ratio, the loss if far from the total diff in power between the 2 types of bike.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Absolutely. As a result, lighter people also get much more range out of a battery.

[@TheCryptoSmit]

Nice video 👍

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks 👍

[@yetti423]

Have an orbea it sits in eco 98% of the time, sometimes rides involve 17 miles of canal the twenty to thirty in the hills, the 17 back. When fit my range is between 85 and 95 miles, but while unfit it is between 60 and 75. the way I see it it doesn't matter if pootling along the flat with battery turned off of hammering it along just above the motors support, just leave the juice for the fun stuff, and fifteen percent fora tired journey home.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Sounds like a plan 😉. How we use these bikes is without a doubt massively dependent on where we're riding. My bike is almost always in tour when I ride may home trails. But then, there really are only two directions round my way - up or down!

[@thim8009]

1st bike Gen 2 levo then levo sl, then yt decoy mx. Sold both levo's and got a gen 3 levo. Just can't get range on sl and just to used to power of full powered. I'm a heavier person and I think that effects the sl even more than full powered.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

I’m still asking myself whether or not the Orbea Rise is the answer for me. Lightweight, but not totally lacking in the power department.

[@thim8009]

@Trail Tracker I thought about it also. Maybe the hydra aluminum with 540 watt battery. By the time I put a different shock on, mullet, brakes, fork, tires, and range extender I'm over 10 grand and 50 pounds. It would be a hell of a bike with 160 mm year travel with bottom bracket at same height.

[@Sethimus82]

you only rode a bike with not much torque, would be interesting how you find the rise in comparison with nearly double the torque

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

As soon as I get a chance, I want to try the Rise out. Unfortunately, there still aren’t many available to test.

[@Sethimus82]

do a tour in spring to freiburg germany and ride the trails there. you can rent one at bikeshop freiburg

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

@@Sethimus82 Thanks for the tip. I’m hoping that my local bike shop will have a test bike in spring.

[@snaeppepe9803]

Cool bikes

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks. I’m hoping to be able to test some more soon.

[@snaeppepe9803]

Ha... Maxi hatte meinen Compi und hat unter meinem Namen den Daumen gehoben. Aber wo er recht hat.... Grüße aus Bonn.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

@@snaeppepe9803 Little Brothers are impossible to control 😂

[@xfortysd40]

Try the Rise, perfect mix between full fat and light! Will never go back to a 50lb+ tank again! The Rise a lot more power than the SL and can handle everything my full fat Enduro rig can. Suffice to say, the full fat Enduro rig is going up for sell!

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

I’ve heard from quite a few people that the Rise is much better than the Levo SL. I’ll definitely be trying to get a test ride 👍

[@DMMTB]

Interesting, I didn't even realize there were two types of e'bike ....

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Thanks Dave. The two main players in the market that I know of are the Specialized Levo SL and the Orbea Rise. At around 17-18kg they are considerably lighter than full powered ones.

[@DMMTB]

@@TrailTrackerSwitzerland I think my mate and his son have specialized, not sure on what model though?

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

They make many different versions of their e-bikes to cater to lots of different riding styles. I think the Levo SL is still in the minority though.

[@Killswitch73]

Now go and try a Orbea Rise M10 , i bet you will change your mind and sell the Full fat Orbea (6kg difference). Ive got both Levo SL carbon and Now a Orbea Rise and the orbea Rise weighs the same with better components and at 60nm in profile 2 . i had a full fat 70nm Focus jam2 and now sold it as couldn't tell the difference in power of the Orbea Rise and Focus Jam2 and the orbea is also 4kg lighter than the carbon Focus jam2. im in UK if you ever want to try my bike and can take you one some good trails around the 7stanes.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

I'm very keen to get my hands on an Orbea Rise. Hopefully my local shop will be getting a demo bike soon. Otherwise, if I'm up in Scotland, I might well take you up on the very kind offer.

[@sretlawgerg]

I can’t decide between a rise hydro or an 85nm focus sam2 🤔

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Decisions, Decisions 🤔 Two very different bikes. Until I get a proper test ride on a Rise, I don't know which way I'd go.

[@jxrxch]

So if you’re coming from experience on a full fat you will recognize the lack of power but coming from a normal enduro bike and trying a Levo SL I was like holy crap this thing gives me wings. If you only had to pick one Bike I reckon it’s be a Levo SL or similar - best of both worlds somehow

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

The two things that really swing it for me is the fact you can squeeze so much more riding into a shorter space of time with the full powered bike and joy of the impossible climb challenge.

[@tomselleck0607]

same bikes, same result. exact!

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Great minds think alike!

[@shophacks]

I think you were comparing two different bike designs regarding descents rather than heavy vs "light". My Levo full power bike is MUCH better on descents than my Giant TranceX which weighs half as much. No ebikes are lightweight. I don't know anyone in my area who prefers lower power ebikes over full power. I suppose there's a situation for each type but, for everyone I ride with, having 100% more power when you need it is more than worth the 10% extra weight. My guess is that 250W peak power ebikes will soon be a thing of the past.

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

I’ve also decided that I wouldn’t give up the extra power. But the difference in agility with the reduced weight is definitely real.

[@shophacks]

@@TrailTrackerSwitzerland the difference in agility may be as much or more a function of the components, tires, and/or geometry than weight. My 50+ lb Turbo Levo handles WAY better than my 25 lb Giant TranceX. Twice the weight and twice as agile.

[@felixduprey]

You tested the wrong bike... Try the Orbea Rise...light weight...2xs the power of the Levo

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

I've heard that the Rise is much better. Unfortunately, the only bike available in the shop for me to hire was the Levo, which was far better than no bike at all! I'd like to get my hands on Rise though.

[@AemJaY]

Ism happy with my „full fat“ i think my HC8 is (around 25kg). Well i dont know any other bikes maybe thats why 🙄🤣

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Riding the Levo SL certainly gave me something to think about and really bought into focus the compromises we make for the extra power.

[@AemJaY]

@@TrailTrackerSwitzerland well i think like that. i startet in 2021. the technic was on point A, so in maybe 3-5 years the gap to the new tech is much bigger than from 2021-22. so maybe in 5 years i will switch to another bike, because of the bigger gap of the new tech. i hope that makes sense xD