Athena #4 - Atop the Fourth Wall

[@odinkiller727]

Odd hearing Ares talk about honorable battle when in the Iliad, Ares went down to fight (I forget why or on which side) and was stabbed in the chest by a guy. Ares then proceeded to run away like a bitch.

[@Avenger85438]

I'm sure he tells it as: "Advanced swiftly backwards, in a daring maneuver."

[@hofaplays8840]

Yeah, I think that was after Athena gave one of the Trojans the ability to see which soldiers were actually Gods. Man, that's a long book xD

[@Grim_Sister]

Avenger85438 “I have bravely fought to flee!"

[@lorddrayvon1426]

6:38 and they're also able to make themselves grow at will judging by this camera angle.

[@CaptainEnglehorn]

@@hofaplays8840 I doubt it because if I remember right, Ares supported the Trojans. I think Athena gave one of the Greeks that ability. Also, Athena supporting Troy makes no sense as she was snubbed by Paris with the whole golden apple thing.

[@GeneralKenobi75]

So I'm guessing from their dislike of ranged weapons Athena and Ares probably didn't get along well with their siblings Apollo and Artemis.

[@alienbacon656]

GeneralKenobi75 they probably don’t like their dad either since his bolts can be considered as range weapons. Also, Hello there.

[@mrroboshadow]

im guessing about as well as Artemis got along with Aphrodite in the actual Greek myths

[@jacopoveronese81]

In the Iliad, the ethos of Greek warriors considered archers sorta cowards, actually.

[@bthsr7113]

@Valrath823 It varies by day, but not an unfounded assumption for their family dynamics.

[@ZoanBlade90]

@@jacopoveronese81 To be fair, it also said Aphrodite had no place on the battlefield. The fact that it's in there, might say that it was a topic that came up a bunch at the time.

[@the4thwallkid132]

There's only one thing we'll never forget about the Athena reviews.... The fact that Linkara is wearing a yellow speedo in the title cards😂

[@thunderforceninja5445]

Yeah that's forever burned into my soul 😐

[@ZoanBlade90]

I can imagine him saying "This thing chafes like a bastard!"

[@ChristianNeihart]

"We hope you've enjoyed: No Moral Theater, ladies and gentlemen."

[@alexiaNBC]

Last I checked the Iliad, Ares was on the Trojan side of the Trojan war while Athena was on the Greek side... so shouldn't they have been enemies in this comic series and not working together?

[@alexjewett7455]

Plus in Greek mythology they generally don't get along

[@ZoanBlade90]

Given how Ares is regularly screwed over in mythology, I'll take it.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@ZoanBlade90 is it wrong i would see Athena as a Bad guy? In my own "superhero universe" i would have hephaestus as THE heroic greek god (because Hephaestus could easily be an "Iron Man"-type of superhero with metal bending and firebending), Hades as a "Big good mentor" (because for a change it would be interesting to have Hades as a good guy), Ares as a "Miles Glorious type of character" who only fought to get respect (funny trivia: ares was god of war. but athena most of the time swept the floor with him. as ares was the god of war, BUT athena was essentially the god (dess) of war DONE RIGHT); who (Ares) was treated as the butt of the jokes among the greek pantheon (or in cases like Hephaestus, has a stranged brotherhood relationship) and died, but due to weird shenanigans reincarnated as Mars in a life where he finally found respect and Athena i would portray her as deadly as Lady Shiva from DC Comics is usually portrayed : essetially as death incarnated and as cunning as vicious she can be. I would give some of the greek deities (demeter, hades, hepahestus, and ares as the "friend who is difficul to get around") the "adaptational heroic" treament and some like zeus, poseidon and athena the "villanous" treatment (either due to just showing their actual acts in mythology or adaptational villany) I don't know if that would be an interesting take on the greek deities. especially because i though about incorproating other pantheons. i just wanted to get that idea out. ALSO, i would obviously change some stuff o streamlined a little. I might include that thing of Odysseus being a good friend of athena. maybe as "one of her few genuine friends" (because even bad guys have those)

[@LupineShadowOmega]

@@ianr.navahuber2195 eh I can see it. In my own universe Eros is my Greek hero god. Hephaestus is basically his adopted father and they're both not particularly fond of his mom.

[@undertakernumberone1]

@@ianr.navahuber2195 hey, give Hades some love! He's overall one of the least douchy Greek Gods there are!

[@AceSpadeThePikachu]

"Gods and criminal gang leaders aren't meant to fight...not like this..." "NOT LIKE THIIIIIIIIS!"

[@jonahfalcon1970]

Athena's favored weapon was a SPEAR. PS. It's both a melee AND ranged weapon, so what the hell?

[@Red-Hermit]

jekblom123 but some things are better ranged weapons than others...

[@tyrongkojy]

Hell, it's designed to keep your opponent as far away from you as possible.

[@thoughtengine]

@@tyrongkojy Especially those Pacific Rim spears with a head composed of forward-facing stingray spines.

[@thoughtengine]

@@Red-Hermit Like cast-iron skillets?

[@Red-Hermit]

thoughtengine I mean, like, if you have the strength to throw one, more power to you

[@LaNoLaCola]

It's truly the end of an era. Steven Universe Future ended, and Linkara finally finishes Athena.

[@LaNoLaCola]

Salkafar my comment wasn’t an invitation to debate whether or not the SUF finale was good. I was making a compare and contrast about the series of Athena comic reviews coming to an end just after the recently concluded Steven Universe Future.

[@exceedcharge1]

Oh dang, athena really doesn’t have a great great grandfather, it only goes as far back as great grandfather with Uranus and there is literally nothing past that

[@Gojiragon]

Isn’t there Kaos?

[@alienbacon656]

Yeah but since Uranus was both Gaya’s husband and son...he’s simultaneously great and great great...i think. Cosmic Incest is very confusing

[@LiliumSnow]

@@alienbacon656 "Cosmic Incest is very confusing" is not a sentence I thought I would read today, but that's Greek mythology for you I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@alexandersturnn4530]

@@Gojiragon Yeah, but Kaos in Greek Mythology is less of an individual God and more like a semi-conscious Primordial Force of Nature, if I remember correctly.

[@Skullkaiser]

@@alexandersturnn4530 Then the six primal gods that Kaos created you know the generation of Erebus and Helios.

[@jacobwillis7596]

What bothers me the most about this comic is that as someone who likes mythology and likes superheroes I’d be all over a book about Athena as one. I’m all of Greek mythology she’d be the perfect god to pick, well except maybe Hercules but marvel already has him. She one of the nicer in the pantheon, has created a ton of monster that would want pay back, is a fighter and smart, and also her working with ares would be cool contrast and two god of war siblings being bros would be rad. How did they fuck this up?

[@darylchurch2115]

Also she and Odysseus were good friends in The Odyssey. I could easily see Odysseus being awesome supporting cast.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@darylchurch2115 is it wrong i would see Athena as a Bad guy? In my own "superhero universe" i would have hephaestus as THE heroic greek god (because Hephaestus could easily be an "Iron Man"-type of superhero with metal bending and firebending), Hades as a "Big good mentor" (because for a change it would be interesting to have Hades as a good guy), Ares as a "Miles Glorious type of character" who only fought to get respect (funny trivia: ares was god of war. but athena most of the time swept the floor with him. as ares was the god of war, BUT athena was essentially the god (dess) of war DONE RIGHT); who (Ares) was treated as the butt of the jokes among the greek pantheon (or in cases like Hephaestus, has a stranged brotherhood relationship) and died, but due to weird shenanigans reincarnated as Mars in a life where he finally found respect and Athena i would portray her as deadly as Lady Shiva from DC Comics is usually portrayed : essetially as death incarnated and as cunning as vicious she can be. I don't know if that would be an interesting take on the greek deities. especially because i though about incorproating other pantheons. i just wanted to get that idea out. ALSO, i would obviously change some stuff o streamlined a little. I might include that thing of Odysseus being a good friend of athena. maybe as "one of her few genuine friends" (because even bad guys have those)

[@sebastiankrant2738]

@@ianr.navahuber2195 Well, it would be one of those scenarios that turn mythology on its head. After all, Athena is generally considered a benevolent goddess - especially in contrast to Ares. After all, Ares was as you said the guy responsible for war itself and that was rightly considered pretty bad, whereas Athena was about all the good qualities portrayed in war. Plus, she stood for all the nice things and Athen was generally considered one of the cultural hubs and advanced philosophies of the time and that was after all "her" city. So all in all, any portrayal as a bad guy would put the original on its head. Thats not to say those cannot work, its just that there are some that work and some that are just cringe-inducing or play with the mythology badly, e. g. when the changes come less off as "intersting spin" and more "I want this story and now I am gonna force the characters into it, no matter how little it resembles the original". A general advice I would give is to stay mostly true to the original traits and stories if possible rather than a complete revamp, and instead change the viewpoint on it. Since many mythts have a lot of different versions this still gives a lot of variety. To take cues from Rick Riordan and his various works and similar modern work, there are some examples: One can simply heighten up one trait to the point where it becomes evil. Or look at how the various things that the gods represent have changed (or our outlook on them) and change the gods accordingly. E. g. Riordans Mars (not Ares though) fully acknowledges that war is a horrible thing because he saw all the horrible shit in wars throughout time. The third version is simply to use the same stories under the modern lense, many make old gods look horrible under modern morality. For Athena, there are two prime myths: One, the versions of the Medusa myth where she punished Medusa and turned her into a monster for beeing raped in her temple. And two, the time she turned Arachne into a spider for beeing better than her. Here one has to be carefull - e. g. using the example with Medusa but than having good guy Hades with a kidnapped Persephone running around might come of as hypocrisy. But changing to much can be a problem - unless one goes for a complete reverse of good-guy-bad-guy one god should not have all their bad acts justified or not happened, while the other really did all that awfull stuff.

[@christopherwall2121]

Hades abducting Persephone was the LEAST problematic player in that story. Zeus pre-arranged it with Hades and Persephone and did not tell Demeter about it, and Demeter's suffocating hold over her daughter is what caused the whole situation to be carried out the way it was. At least, that's the version I learned. Think of it more like eloping, I guess?

[@undertakernumberone1]

@@sebastiankrant2738 the version of hte Medusa myth though is a later ROMAN version, not greek.

[@roberthellmann4854]

Athena’s “new way” is essentially Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation kind of logic.

[@DigiRangerScott]

Somebody’s been watching Phelous, otherwise you poor unwise soul for being so bored by the self-quarantine that you chose Next Mutation on your own volition

[@SpeedyEric1]

(Singing) I hate Splinter.

[@autobotproductions1244]

Robert Hellmann I just saw Phelous’ review of thar

[@jasonjimerson7046]

Been watching Phelous lately?

[@HyruleSwordsman94]

"I think we should keep her around." Wait, was that ever in question? I could be wrong, but to my recollection, the civilian Athena was not only in good standing with the NYPD, but was considered one of their best assets because of her uncanny ability to tell when people were lying. Did something happen that we're not privy to that put her job in jeopardy?

[@AT4W]

I don't know, maybe they thought it was weird she healed so quickly from her bullet injury?

[@choninja21]

@@AT4W Maybe they got tired of seeing her butt

[@TheHeroOfTomorrow]

Or, you know, possibly killing all those criminals might be a factor.

[@MiniMackeroni]

@@TheHeroOfTomorrow Well, the chief doesn't know that. And he's the one asking.

[@MicrowavedAlastair5390]

Since we're talking about weird myths... My favorite mythical beings are the Tzitzimitli. Female Aztec star demon-vampires of death during childbirth described as having the body of a beautiful woman, the face of a skull, and a rattlesnake penis. I'm not even kidding. It's the greatest thing ever.

[@billuraral1870]

I'm side eying how the comic makes Helen a gold digger. In the Illiad, she has a scene where she absoluetly owns both Paris AND Aprodithe by reminding she never wanted any of this ten year war bullshit and the two of them just up on kidnapped her from her home and husband without her consent and bought her to this place where everyone hates her for "starting a war" when Paris comes to her chambers to whine (Paris being a self centered little bitch is accurate to the myths, at least). I don't know, I always liked that part since it added some real depht to Helen when many brushes her off as a honeytrap who "seduced" Paris.

[@JaelinBezel]

Yeah the ancient greeks tended to portray women as envious, deceitful, and dangerous. See also The Amazons and Medea.

[@BlazingAbyss]

The fire still burning in the water might actually be a reference to "Greek fire" which was a combustible compound used in navel battles. As water was unable to extinguish Greek fire the Ignited targets would continue to burn even while submerged. Granted, that explanation doesn't really make much sense in the context of the scene.

[@ianstambersky]

Also Greek fire was invented and used a lot during the Byzantine times. An era after the Romans conquered everyone (including the Greeks) and then declined and died off. This comic is a dumb comic in both plot narrative, art, history and Greek mythology so burn it.

[@DarkcIoud1111]

Athena actually does have a Great-Great-Grandfather, Chaos. However I can't imagine Athena had too many conversations with him, as Zeus rarely invited any of his older relatives to the family picnics.

[@Skullkaiser]

I mean Kronos and Uranus are both dead.

[@NeoDragonCount]

The Athena superhero concept I had makes more sense: The Greek gods, and all the other old gods of the world, were either killed or gone into hiding due to an eldritch horror coming to Earth and either killing or imprisoning many of them and taking the mantle of God. Some of the old gods avoided capture by taking mortal guise in which they are reincarnated throughout the ages in random people throughout the world; Athena's current incarnation using this to become a superhero, operating in a sort of Yugi/Yami dynamic from Yu-Gi-Oh where Athena takes control, which grants her Athena's Olympian armor (based on actual practical armor, with some seemingly high-tech, in truth just amazing handiwork of Hephaestus, such as a self-closing visor), as well as her owl companion turning into a metallic techno-organic one. Endgame goal for her was that when the Usurper is defeated and many of the gods take back their statuses, Zeus decides he wants to reign over the world, leading to Athena having to choose between her loyalty to Zeus or loyalty to humanity. She'd choose humanity and in an ironic twist, kills Zeus, similarly to how Zeus undid his father, and how Cronus undid his father before him, in which Athena becomes ruler of Olympus.

[@alexjewett7455]

I'd read that

[@Wright805]

Great idea!

[@alexiaNBC]

That's the best idea ever!

[@Gojiragon]

That’s.... actually pretty interesting, especially the angle that the “god” of Christianity is in fact an lovecraftian cosmic being that needs to be stopped.

[@CsBTransition]

Man, Athena’s military strategy is erratic and makes no sense. Like she’s some kind of “Psycho Soldier”.

[@SpeedyEric1]

You magnificent bastard, I READ YOUR BOOK!

[@DeadBoneJones]

I dunno if this comic's name is magic, but I certainly see mystery when I look at it.

[@kedharswaminathan7571]

I think she looking for a Saint called Seiya

[@MrSafior]

@@kedharswaminathan7571 A joke that Yankee will not understand.

[@billuraral1870]

*insert Crazy Steve joke*

[@aaa1e2r3]

They would have never known Cupid since he's the Roman counterpart to Eros, in the same way Ares' Roman counterpart is Mars and Athena's is Minerva. A better example probably would have been Artemis in this case

[@curleyqreviews9793]

And Apollo was supposed to be good at archery too

[@mattwo7]

Yea, this isn't Marvel where they're separate characters (and I don't mean the Eternal formerly known as Eron who goes by the hero name of Starfox because that's a thing that exists) because literally _every_ religion is real (which must get awkward for all the versions of Abraham's god).

[@LupineShadowOmega]

He did still mention Eros, so even if Cupid is his counter part, Eros is an example still.

[@mitkitty]

It's so weird that when the Romans smashed together gods (to try and get the Greeks to worship the same gods) that artemis and apollo kept their names

[@dominickfinch5693]

mitkitty actually Artemis was Diana in Rome.

[@chocolattemocha8512]

This kind of makes me want to make a superhero based on Athena (the goddess not this version of Athena). But with more armor. And a really cool spear.

[@TheHeroOfMobius]

Athena: "I've got it! ...ARSON!"

[@WarmLusamine]

Ares: *two thumbs up* *if he didn't suggest it, he'd probably be incredibly enthusiastic about it*

[@SuzanneHomemaker]

Athena in the Myths: Joseph Joestar Athena in this comic: Khorne Berserker

[@bthsr7113]

Archers were seen as cowards by the Greeks, giving glory to the frontline troops, which is why Paris carried one since he was ancient Greece's idea of an antihero. That said, I'd think that after Apollo and Artemis, Athena would be one of the most approving of ranged combat. Ares might prefer melee, but I'd expect him to still appreciate ranged battles, and if both sides are using it, and it's the standard weaponry of the day, he really has no room to belittle them. Cupid was Roman. I'd also have used Apollo and Artemis. If they wanted to have Ares get up on a soap box about honorable combat and war, well you could still use gangs for their petty squabbles which undermine their home, but if it's about dishonorable weapons and tactics, he should be talking about Africa and the Middle East for contemporaries. WWII would give him a field day to work with. Guns are easier than many weapons, including bows, but they still reward superior skill, and all weapons need some skill and training to use safely and effectively.

[@qtheplatypus]

The Spartans thought that ranged weapons where not honourable but the Athenians used bows.

[@fluffbot3000]

"They kill from a distance without honor" they say two seconds after THROWING their melee weapons

[@dermathze700]

You know, Ares could have just complained that modern guns don't require physical strength to use them, or at least not as much as pulling a bowstring does. He could have still made his "honorable warrior" comment.

[@kaicreech7336]

I don't think most writers actually know what the word 'Honor" means. It's just a word they awkwardly glue to fighting things.

[@Makverus]

Gotta give credit where credit is due - the Trojan War flashbacks look really good. The designs of the Gods and the heroes in those seem much more interesting than the main story stuff. And Athena isn't even half-naked!

[@obsidian179]

Zeus’s plan could make perfect sense if he was secretly... GRANNY GOODNESS!

[@tonyjoestar2632]

Man, 12 years, you're right. I know its not related to the review, but I wanna say thanks Linakara. I've been hooked on your storylines and laughing at your videos for over a decade dude, and I wanna say thanks.

[@charlezard5579]

I rewatched the other 3 episodes for this episode

[@Greendalewitch]

See you in ten years when he reviews the fifth comic.

[@Pikachu2Ash]

@@Greendalewitch Don't joke about stuff like that.

[@Dynaman21]

8:50 - Anyone who has been to a shooting range will vouch for the skill needed to operate one of those. Not to mention guys on KZbin who are expert marksmen, trick shooters, etc.

[@SCWRMComms]

There's an entire board on 4Chan that will tell you in great detail how and why it takes skill to operate a firearm, /k/. Even i who don't like guns as a weapon understand they're not toys that anyone can pick up and operate them freely. -Teo

[@Dynaman21]

Swashbuckling Console War Regiment Musketeers Comms I am no expert, but having gone to a range a few times to shoot off a pistol, I can tell you that yes, there’s a science to it. They had an instructor present to give anyone new or rusty pointers. It’s not just a matter of picking it up and being an instant expert. There’s grip, safety, control, etc.

[@SerenityM16]

Not to mention Artemis and Apollo with the distance thing, y'know, two gods known for their skills in archery, one considered kind of a badass warrior goddess in her own right.

[@DarkKnightofAnime]

Sad part is the concept of this comic at face value is actually interesting but everything around it is terrible, it’s a classic case of incredible idea Baaed Execution

[@Izanagi009]

yeah, I feel this idea can be implemented well if done by Gaiman or someone who loves mythology. The issue is that this story didn't do enough with the concepts or the idea of cyclic time

[@ZoanBlade90]

Just read Marvel's *Hercules: Still Going Strong* instead.

[@billygreci9739]

The same could be said about the VAST majority of comics, games, tv, movies, and other media. Especially when accounting for stuff like "Cowboys of Moo Mesa", a strange story idea that started among countless T.M.N.T. imitators but was done well enough to last longer than a great deal of them. Speaking of, "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" is a strange enough idea at first that was turned into a MASSIVE success story because of how it was handled. I honestly can't think of any story that failed because of the idea instead of the execution.

[@WarmLusamine]

The exception being Holy Terror, of course. *theres no saving that*

[@TheLetterJ0]

If you look below Ares's armpit, you can see that he is not being stabbed by an eyelash, but by a poorly-drawn spear. As such, I think the cover is supposed to depict Ares being wounded by Diomedes (with Athena's help) in the Trojan War. It's not exactly the most well-known part of the myth, so chances are that most people who aren't rather familiar with The Iliad won't recognize it. And it obviously doesn't fit the story beyond the Trojan War reference.

[@DJVaughan]

3:50 Actually from what I remember the whole breast armor things isn’t any worse than normal as long as the quality is good. Watched a video from someone who makes armor and weapons, the point when it comes to the torso is to deflect blows and defuse the kinetic energy across the armor instead of transferring to a single spot. He went at both types of armor with a broadsword and they held up the same. Of course his just had molds for the breasts, no attempts at showing cleavage.

[@michaelconnell1010]

Given how things turned out in Lostbelt 5 , I can understand the Greek pantheon’s aversion to ranged weaponry 😉

[@TevyaSmolka]

This story is really confusing I have no idea what’s going on in this series anymore my god this Athena series is really stupid were they trying to make their own Wonder Woman but with Athena.

[@alexjewett7455]

It's ironic that the goddess of wisdom is a complete and utter moron

[@TevyaSmolka]

Alex Jewett lol indeed she sure is a moron in this series

[@DarsiPadilla]

@@TevyaSmolka , even the God of War franchise's take on Athena is more dignified.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@DarsiPadilla lol indeed

[@farmerproductions9869]

2:59 don’t forget that zeus’s father eat his baby children to make sure none of them took his throne from him, Zeus was spared because his mother instead fed her husband a stone dressed in a blanket and then he spit up the fully grown children after being poisoned

[@alexiaNBC]

And Zeus and his wife, Hera, are brother and sister

[@alimowla3204]

@@alexiaNBC wasn't there also a story where he turned into a duck to screw someone?

[@mst3kharris]

And then Zeus cut off Cronos’s dick and threw it into the sea, which then gave birth to Aphrodite. Greek mythology is a hoot.

[@WarmLusamine]

Prof. Pericles: *This is not news*

[@mrroboshadow]

ya know i always thought that old gods being reincarnated or taking on normal personas in the modern world was so interesting i really believe these comics showed exactly what NOT to do with that concept

[@Dynaman21]

Athena’s remain useless throughout all media. If I want to see an Athena, I’ll watch Saint Seiya on Netflix.

[@Dynaman21]

multilad816 The 80’s Anime is on Netflix. Fun show. Apparently Toei gives you a license grab bag when you remake something and you get everything no money down. Kinda like when games come with downloadable copies of their prequel.

[@odinkiller727]

Her kid is pretty useful in the Percy Jackson series.

[@myriadmediamusings]

Athena from Saint Seiya. Athena from SNK. Athena from Ace Attorney. Almost every rendition of Athena in other media is better than what we got here.

[@johnmcclure40]

Athena in Everworld isn't bad.

[@Kolbjornelenano]

At least the Athena from lost canvas was a little more proactive and smart (and a lot more proactive and smart if you compare her to saori)

[@deterlanglytone]

Athena's great great grandfather? Well, Cronus is her grandfather, and his father is Uranus... and his father is... huh, I guess you were right, Uranus has only got a mother but no father. Gaia sure is something. Literally needs no man. Unless Aither. the air, counts? Maybe? Depends on who you ask? Still, funny joke. Generally including that music gets a smile from me, and the way you delivered got a chuckle. :)

[@sebastiankrant2738]

Well, there was Chaos as Uranos father in stories when he was Gaias brother/husband, but if that counts as a parent? I mean the original generation of Gaia, Uranos etc. were already more force of nature and/or places than actual deities, beeing BEFORE the actual titans that already went more in that direction, so Chaos beeing one step further down the line...

[@Bacon-Dave]

Man I love the grandfather's grandfather bit

[@GunmadMadman]

I love the title card and how happy with herself she looks

[@phoenixsoul13]

Annnnnd it's over. It's almost weird; Athena #1 was my first Linkara video ten years ago, so I'm feeling quite nostalgic. :D

[@darrenheideman2546]

Nice gag with the music from the Incredible Hulk TV show.

[@cui8789]

@6:26 It's always strange how writers seem to think trained warriors have no sense of pragmatism or tactics. I see this happen often with Wonder Woman, Thor and Starfire who will be touted as having been trained since childhood yet are written as impulsive buffoons whose mistakes would have gotten them killed if not for their powers.

[@henrygvidonas9573]

Oh Assena, you so cheeky!

[@genesismultiverse4896]

ares:no honor hermes: ahem! artemis: ahem! heracles: ahem! zeus: ahem!

[@nicholassulfaro1727]

"These two never got along with Eros or Cupid" (who are the same sometimes?) ...or Apollo... ...or Artemis... Or Zeus too if we count lightning as a ranged weapon or also Hades since his signature item was a helm of invisibility. The authors of this really didn't know too much about Greek Mythology did they? Makes this rather... unfortunate...

[@darylchurch2115]

Also, did the Greeks even have a concept of honourable battle? If I remember correctly, they valued being an intelligent warrior who was able to outsmart their enemy and be more than a bit underhanded

[@Skullkaiser]

@@darylchurch2115 Your correct it was the Aesir and Vanir who sought honourable warriors not the greeks.

[@sebastiankrant2738]

@@darylchurch2115 Kinda depends how you mean it. There were definitly certain cultures that valued martial prowess over intelligence or at least non-military intelligence. Sparta comes to mind, where passing Spartan training was one of the defining factors for standing in the city. Keep in mind that there is not THE ancient greek culture or THE greek mythology though. So it depends a lot. Its also often a practical thing - a culture and often individual city (and by extent whatever deities they claim) consider whatever they are good at to be the best thing, whereas what they are bad at is not that important. E. g. the Spartans having a high opinion of martial skill. In general many skills were seen as desirable and different gods had different standings on them. I could totally see Ares at least preferring melee combat since bloody war was his thing and he was sometimes portrayed as very bloodthirsty. So brutal close combat and physical strength would be things he would value. Similarly, in the Ilias about the Trojan war single duels have a lot of precedent and so that is something both gods could probably support. But Athena not liking guns because of range - not really. If it would be a one sided slaughter - ok. Hell, if she would argue something like guns making things too random - ok. If it takes no skill - ok. I mean the latter two are kind-off existent: Guns are very deadly even with relativly little training and two relativly untrained sides just blasting at each other would make the battle more decided by luck and equipment than skill. But JUST because its ranged fighting - hell no.

[@mst3kharris]

They really didn’t, which I find both infuriating and very funny.

[@mst3kharris]

Daryl Church It kind of depended? There’s a tension through the Iliad about the Greeks relying on Odysseus for strategies, where the Greek leaders ask him to come up with ideas to help them win but then grit their teeth about Odysseus being a sneaky clever bastard. Achilles just flat out hates Odysseus, as I recall.

[@myriadmediamusings]

Yep just finished a rewatch of the series. Both glorious and sad when a long-running series on the show reaches its end as it feels like the end of an era. If you all want a better “modern Athena”, check out SNK.

[@Adrahoth]

Review out on Monday?!? WHAT NEW SPORE OF MADNESS IS THIS?!?

[@hofaplays8840]

I've been watching your show for 8 years and try to go back to older videos than that. I love your analysis, and I'm glad you're still reviewing the world's worst that you will ever see. Thanks Linkara!!!

[@TomberryPlays]

BUtTthena will be missed. She didn't manage to CRACK her way into comic book legend.... Derrière.

[@joethehero2]

The Greeks actually DID look down on archers and slingers.

[@mediaguyking7045]

joethehero2 true

[@Alucard-A-La-Carte]

As did Medieval Europeans (or at least the English), perceiving them as cowards for not getting their hands dirty.

[@christopherwall2121]

The ENGLISH? The ENGLISH looked down on archers you say? I think you should look up Agincort, buddy.

[@bthsr7113]

But they still used them. Yeah, the English in the 100 Year's War were the ones who taught the world to fear the peasant with a longbow.

[@neogotham2k39]

Even though there was a Coronavirus outbreak, we must find "A New Way"

[@dominickfinch5693]

10:26 I mean, it’s less of a person and more of just an infinite void. But there’s Chaos. Granted, it doesn’t really get out much, or talk with it’s family much, or really do anything except infinitely churn.

[@mightyfilm]

The part about having to "Find a new way" is extra hilarious if you just watched Phelous's latest review of that awful live action Ninja Turtles series.

[@krspaceT1]

I think the RL ancient Greeks looked down on archery (armies tended to hire in slingers and archers from outside their core from Rhodes or Crete.) They still hired them so ..

[@OnDavidsBrain]

13:10 "I've got it, ARSON!"

[@undertakernumberone1]

"You dare take up arms against me and mine?" Nah, not me... that Kratos guy on the other hand...

[@wdcain1]

_"Anyone can blow up a ship. Ha! But to look your enemy in the eye, knowing you'll remember his face for the rest of your life, now that takes... a stomach, much stronger than you'll ever have."_ Gul Dukat. I am so disappointed in Linkara for not working that into the episode somewhere.

[@LiliumSnow]

Take a shot everytime someone in this comic says "honour" and "glory". .... You're dead now, aren't you? Whoops.

[@DigiRangerScott]

I am proud to call this show a medical resource. Disclaimer: Pride does not equal correctness

[@oblivious8868]

Fun fact: There's tool for Monster Hunter games called Athena's Armor Set Search, aka Athena's ASS if you're juvenile. I'm amazed that this comic is less sophisticated than that. Also, I don't know why, but the spoon gag amused me the most. Great work, Lewis!

[@Darkgreenfangirl]

Farewell Athena comic you will not be missed. Amazing episode as always :)

[@eddihurta7173]

From Phelous New TMNT review, "We must learn a new way!"

[@johnoneil9188]

Doing a Worf impression:"They have no honor." The Greek gods coming back and finding ways to adjust to this new world with some of them trying to help while others are just in for the fun and the power could be an interesting concept but they really do nothing with the setup in this. The gods don´t even come off as particularly likeable.

[@realrealwarpet]

I do like that athena and aries are getting along. They really would have, given they're both gods of war. just different aspects of war. one tactics, the other combat. Imagine if wonder woman had to fight Aries AND Athena.

[@mst3kharris]

You’d think they would get along, but to the best of my recollection they despised each other. Ares was more of a wanton bloodshed MURDER DEATH KILL type where Athena was a hang back, choose your ground, play it smart type.

[@DanBrizuela]

Whenever you start a new series, it's exiting. Whenever you end, there's a bit of sadness. With Athena, I just shrugged all the way.

[@BlueJaguarRanger]

There’s 451 prior comments on this video so I’m not checking to see if someone said this already, but Athena did make one more appearance: a minor non-speaking cameo towards the end of the Dynamite crossover event “Swords of Sorrow”. I actually had to do a double take when I saw her, since I didn’t even know Athena was a Dynamite book

[@jim7644]

That part about Ares and Athena viewing guns and bows as cowardly is actually pretty accurate. The ancient Athenians and Spartans (I’m not sure about the other city-states, but probably them, too) viewed ranged warfare as cowardly - that’s why Paris is constantly taking shit from everyone else in the Illiad. Odysseus was a rare example of an archer who was seen as heroic, but his archery was only one part of a long list of grand feats and talents.

[@kartiksarin7606]

"Eros and Cupid", I would've gone with Apollo and Artemis.

[@thomaspalazzolo5902]

...Is Pollo wearing his own little Linkara coat? Cute!

[@1987MartinT]

6:10-6:39 There were some cultures that considered archery to be cowardly. I don't know if Ancient Greece was one of those cultures, but they did put a lot of emphasis on close quarters combat, usually involving formations of spearmen. 7:04-7:15 Duels were very common. The idea was that instead of hundreds or even thousands dying each side would send a strong warrior and only those two would fight. The winning duellist's side would be declared the winner and only one person would die. Usually. I have heard of a duel fought between an Athenian general and a Syracusan cavalry commander, who challenged each other to avoid a bloodbath, where the two managed to kill each other. The duel was considered a draw, and the two forces each left the battlefield carrying the corpses of their commanders.

[@powerist209]

But they use peltast armed with slings, bows and arrows, and javelins as support unit.

[@Rixec2]

Man, another series done with. Feels weird to be seeing so many bad comics to mine for good laughs reaching their ends. Well, at least we still have the Clone Saga! Great review as always. ^_^

[@YandMProductions]

Great review as usual, Linkara, and a great summary of why this comic is so awful. However, there is one thing I feel the need to explain. And I didn't see anyone else in the comments say this yet, so if I'm telling you something you've already been told, my apologies. Also, thanks should go to Overly Sarcastic Productions for making this clear to me. I highly recommend watching their history and mythology summaries. And if I got anything wrong, blame me and not them. In Greek mythology, which of course influenced their culture, most of their greatest heroes are seen as "using their strength to overcome the odds." Emphasis on strength. The heroes always fought their opponents directly, usually with sword and spear, and, while they may have had to struggle, were able to overcome their enemy in the end. And while there are heroes that used bows like Odysseus, most of the time, Greek culture portrayed the bow as a cowards weapon, associated with tricks and weakness. Now yes, plenty of Greek heroes used tricks and indirect combat (Perseus, Hermes, Odysseus again) But that was what the Greeks believed. Heck, Odysseus could be described as an anti-hero for his era. Granted, I admit it's kinda odd that Athena would view long-range weapons in this light, but for Ares, who tended to be the poster child of strength and honorable fighting among the Olympians, this makes perfect sense. His whole deal is fighting and finding honor in battle. Of course he'd hate the use of guns.

[@BlackForest147]

posiden was also the god of horse so he might have been the horse in both shots

[@johnmcclure40]

I was about to suggest that.

[@darylchurch2115]

Glad to see you're okay Linkara, we all love you wise comic mentor~!

[@Maniac536]

I see Dynamite as a hashtag and before watching this I’m hoping for a Control reference

[@prinnyramza]

"Fight with these" Tries to stab to get gun back. "How foolish, trying to use the knife we gave you to stab"

[@Skullkaiser]

Linkara did you forget about Chaos thee first being according to Greek myth who created the six primal gods who would eventual result in the greek gods?

[@KyleRayner12]

"What is this thing?" Based on the way it's drawn, perhaps a baguette?

[@spigui500]

A long awaited episode! Not for especially positive reasons

[@brendaneichler5244]

Eros and Cupid were kinda sorta the same being. Or rather, Eros is the Roman version of Cupid, and while they were often quite similar, there were important differences, like Ares (warrior, in it for the thrill) vs Mars (soldier, focused on discipline).

[@cui8789]

Also, minor correction but this was not the last time Athena appeared in a Dynamite comic. She was in a 2012 crossover event called Prophecy where she teamed up with a bunch of other Dynamite characters such as Vampirella and Dracula.

[@BunBun299]

Just a comment on the armor. Look up a channel called Shadiversity, the guy does a lot of videos on weapons and armor and how they might be applicable to fantasy settings. He did a few videos a few months back on what female armor might be like. It didn't really exist historically, because very few women ever fought in wars. He speculates that given historical precedent on armor design that it is very likely that armor designed for women probably would have been aesthetically designed to show off breasts, much like how some historical armor was designed with large cod pieces. He also points out that while making the breast shapes would weaken the armor a bit, it wouldn't be to a degree that really matters. Any weapons that would be deflected by armor without them would still be deflected by armor with breasts. That said, Athena's armor in the comic still covers too little to matter, though there is also historical precedent for people going to war with nothing by a shield to protect themselves with.

[@zenfrodo]

It's so obvious that the writers haven't read much greek mythology, let alone the Illiad.

[@kemboi69]

Glad to know that this series had no actual point /s. Also gunpowder has been around over a millennia and warfare changed centuries ago shouldn’t gods of war have known and accepted this by now especially if their mortal forms don’t look to be older than 35.

[@ig_4220]

3:59 Wow the explosion was so powerful it blasted the black paint from the last issue clean off

[@JohnnyElRed]

Well, she did appear again in the Prophecy crossover, next to other like Red Sonja, Vampirella and Dracula. But after that, yeah. I think they completly forgot that she even existed.

[@tirex3673]

3:15 might be a reference to the illiad, where Athena with the help of Diomedes, a greek soldier, injures Ares with a spear because he wasn't keeping a deal they had made.

[@Batmanbeyyond]

16:15 please be Daredevil please be Daredevil please be Daredevil!

[@PokemonHaloFan]

As someone who target shoots with both firearms and a bow and arrow I can confirm that ranged weapons do require skill to use. Not as much as a sword but still skill is required to keep from injuring or killing yourself.

[@squeethemog213]

Wow this was a bad one. Thanks for covering it Lewis :D

[@RaphBlade7]

Poisedon wasn't the guy, he was the horse as he is associated with Horses!

[@tf2godz]

It's weird that this only got 4 issues, my understanding is comics usually get 6 issues at least at the bare minimum. Were people that disinterested in this they cancel it after 4 issues?

[@SpeedyEric1]

The first 4 Transformers comics from Marvel was a miniseries, and it became a full series after they became a big hit.

[@michaelrhett4958]

Star Vs the Forces of Evil got 4 issues before it was canceled

[@VekhGaming]

Never possessed a actual serious superhero comic, but I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't enjoy the Thor comics simply because they would never get away with the funniest stories from the Mythology, or with Loki being a good guy until he eventually becomes the villain. Or indeed the Aesir forcing Loki to have sex with a giant horse so its giant-owner could not complete a bet and thus saving the Aesir from having to pay. Or the entirety of Thrymskvida/The Lay of Thrym where the Frost Giant king Thrym steal Mjölnir, demands Freyja's hand in marriage as ransom, resulting in Thor going in drag as bridal-gown Freyja with Loki as Bridesmaid at his side to lie his ass off to keep the masquerade(and get front-row seats for the show) up untill Thor gets Mjölnir back, and then goes to murderate all the giants present while still in drag. Or hell how Loki managed to make Skadi laugh as compensation for killing her dad, which namely tying his nutsack to a goat's beard and having a tug-of-war.

[@koneheadcokehead4981]

So glad this comic book miniseries is finally over done with.

[@daelen.cclark]

We now await the finishing of the dooms 4 reviews in the year 3095.