Secret Shopping My Investment - Secret Shopping Framework Laptops

[@Jollyroger1096]

Thought I'd let you guys know about my experience. I am the I.T. Director for a medical firm. I have been swapping out our HP X360 2 in 1 laptops for Frame Work DIY 13 laptops for the past year (45 so far). I have had a LOT of issues with customer support. Mostly mic/camera issues. Every time I've tried to get it fixed with their customer support, I get a new person and they want NEW photos of connections, the camera module and now the Mainboard. I finally got fed up after going back and forth for over a year and just purchased new mic/camera modules myself to fix the 4 laptops that have had bad modules. Now I have two laptops that have bad mainboards and am dreading contacting customer support again. Would love to go over our experience with you completely.

[@wryd4sound]

I think Linus brings this up regarding the reddit thread that talks about Framework's poor B2B support in general

[@HorizzonCS]

Send them an email, they check those regularly

[@LeftJoystick]

Framework needs to send a couple representatives to Prusa to observe and learn how their Tech Support functions. Prusa support is S+ Tier.

[@davidmalaky]

Why not just get business class laptops? afaik x360 is consumer garbage, better shoot for Elitebook 840 or Latitude 54xx. In EU we have great experience with both HP and Dell support (we ofc pay for onsite NBD)

[@kushagraN]

​@@wryd4soundi don't know if framework sells extended support or not, but this might be a reason why big businesses purchase multi year full support for their fleet devices. My employer buys the laptops at pretty massive markup for these ectended warranty just so that they can ask OEMs to fix issues at employees homes or at the very least all their office buildings. And they literally swap them out once the support ends. Its still scummy the way hp & dell push general users to waste money but there are legit use cases and eventually framework will also improve...

[@BlakeHelms]

I’ve worked in IT Support before and lost count of the number of people that thought turning off the monitor was “rebooting” the computer. You ALWAYS have to ask. Also, a shocking number of people will just lie and say they did and they didn’t. Quick reboot and it fixes it. For whatever reason they would rather spend time on the phone than admit they didn’t try a reboot.

[@papasivir4241]

Yeah it's ridiculous. Most people still don't understand that the monitor is not the computer LOL unless you're using an iMac all-in-one.

[@DK-210]

Even worse some people have a mindset that they shouldn’t have to do ANY basic maintenance or troubleshooting at all.

[@loens2]

I have experienced similar situations where people confused rebooting and shutting down and starting again their Windows. Rebooting the computer actually fixed the proble. Most people don't know, that these are two different things and I can't blame them for it. I'm really happy that Linux doesn't do that kind of stuff.

[@rksaunders]

I frequently have users tell me they shutdown their laptop every day, yet when I check uptime it's at several days. They think closing the laptop lid is turning it off.

[@MoonBunnyLovers]

I had a text chat IT guy get really upset with me because he specifically told me to like hold the power button on a modem for 1 minute, steps I had done about 10 times prior to wasting my time with the "IT" guy, and I messaged him at 1 minute and he text screams that he says 1 full minute!!! Lol it was hilarious. I am pretty sure he figured out I was competent after that and calmed down. Oh and this was after I got chat hung up on by the same company because I had to walk out of the room for their instruction! I ended up cancelling their service... And calling back about 3 months later because they actually never cancelled it! I was PISSSSED! But I was kind to the employee cuz it wasn't HER fault the previous employee was stupid as rocks

[@wiG5944]

Shout out to Natalie! she did a great job!

[@PancakesAndPunch]

@@wiG5944 I also like BlackPink, Natalie

[@jdrano2215]

Yeah nat

[@alexhuxley3355]

She'll be running Apple in a few years you wait and see

[@Oscar-xs9cv]

Spotting the white knight

[@SaltedCoffee400]

New LTT waifu?

[@jackielinde7568]

As someone who worked IT Service Desk for 19 years, there are countless times where I had to ask someone (over the phone, no less) to repeat a step they told me they did. And when you're dealing in an environment where you don't know the average tech level of the person on the other end of the phone, it's a fair ask. When I did it, I would often say, "I know you said you already did this, but just as a sanity check, I need you to do it again." And lo and behold... that step fixed the issue. The issue often isn't asking the end user to repeat a step they said they did. It's HOW you ask them.

[@MrNo0p]

yep. I've done the same to the customer to enshure they did follow the steps. For example checking if they really reboot their system and not just shutdown and start it again. let them do some nonsense cmd stuff and then telling them to restart the machine and most important to not just shut it off and on again. Most of the times they follow through with it and most problems get solved that way.

[@NickyG-NZ]

I'd sometimes throw in an excuse like changing something innocuous then getting them to repeat the step they claimed they'd done because "it might work now" It often did. My main takeaway from tech support is that people would rather have broken technology than admit they were wrong or ignorant

[@plukerpluck]

To be fair, I have actively done a step, called IT after it didn't work, and had it work after they asked me to perform that same step "just to confirm".... So sometimes weird voodoo does happen. More specifically it was a laptop dock not working. I think the second time I just left it unplugged a little longer. But I knew I looked like an idiot when I told them I'd already power cycled it twice, and then it magically worked the next time around.

[@jotaux3652]

When I help people with their computer, first thing I do is make sure everything is plugged in and the power at the back of the machine is on. 9 times out of 10 it fixes their problem.

[@TurtleKwitty]

"Just to be safe I'll need you to shut down the computer and check the connector doesnt have any dust" is an absolute classic

[@micah8355]

So - We reached out to Framework to secure about 300 units to replace our aging Dell fleet back in Nov 2023. The level of confidence they inspired was shockingly low. Basically (and to their credit) they warned us that their business support was the same as their consumer support, except with a queue jumping preference. Dell has next business day support, and Framework couldn't promise that they could have a consistent SLA under 10 business days. And thats why I have 300 Dell latitudes we deployed this year. Until Framework ups their support game, big clients like myself (I have north of 2500 laptops across 2 companies) just won't consider them a viable option (even thought we WANT them so bad)

[@necuz]

To be fair, I doubt Dell is actually promising you anything either. Not when it comes to how quickly you'll have a laptop repaired, servers are another story because there you can pay for "mission critical" support. If they can't source the spare part you will still end up waiting weeks for a repair or a month for a replacement laptop. However, depending on your region, it's entirely possible that NBD turns out to be NBD for real in 90+% of cases.

[@hubertnnn]

Did you buy extended warranty? And financing? Ok, but jokes aside, Dell might be promising next day support but their support is terrible. At least framework is not lying to you.

[@gearheadtechnology]

@@hubertnnn Dell enterprise support is great. We have them at work and they will come on location and fix our laptops within the hour usually. But that's what you want when it comes to enterprise grade laptops, framework isn't enterprise grade, they are just consumer grade laptops that sit beyond the preorder hype train.

[@giornikitop5373]

@@necuz exactly. NBD doesn't mean much for consumer products, but depending on your region, you might get it for real.

[@imgreen4233]

@@gearheadtechnology 100%, had two laptops replaced next day, replaceable storage made it the easiest thing ever

[@collatedcopies]

21:10 This hits home ... I used to get so frustrated when tech support would ask me to repeat steps I’d already done. I couldn’t understand why they kept insisting and would question me like I was lying. But years later, when I worked in tech and had to help others out, I realized how important it is to walk people through everything and be very explicit (even about things you think are very obvious), even if it means going over the same things multiple times and questioning them. It might piss them off at first but the alternative (wasting hours troubleshooting with the assumption the customer did what you asked but actuallly didn't) is much worse! Tech support really tests your patience, empathy and humility imo.

[@noahflare6825]

💯

[@gaveintothedarkness]

True but it would be helpful if the tech support could incorporate that into their script so we know why they are going through the basics instead of treating us like dum dums. Something simple like "Im sure you've already tired most of this already, but we have to go through some really basic questions just to make sure it's not something super simple that was missed"

[@SyntheticFuture]

Did it for 8 years. It needs to mandatory for every human being to work in support for at least 1 year. It really opens your eyes to witness the levels of stupidity and aggression on display with customers.

[@OriginalNotFunny]

Once I saw an employee saying he did reinstall Chrome twice already and it didn't solve his performance issues on calls. When I asked him something specific about the reinstallation, he asked for a moment and actually did it, fixing the problem which was he was just opening Chrome.app from the .dmg file and not extracting to MacOS 🫠

[@eljuano28]

Have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in?

[@kalebbruwer]

18:15 Linus violently bashes laptop against table. Repeatedly. Chapter title: "Linus Breaks Laptop by accident"

[@AfolSam]

at 18:25 you can barely hear "oh fuck" from someone

[@buttersquids]

To be fair, he didn't intend to break the laptop. So it is *technically* an accident

[@henriknutsson8500]

Thanks for bringing attention to the chapter names. They are quite amusing.

[@Adam-yg9xk]

"Linus Break Tips"

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

​@@AfolSamLMFAO i didn't catch that until you said it

[@GwresYnKernow]

I personally (as an IT tech at a large company) have lied to a supplier's tech support and told them I'd done basic diagnostic steps when I hadn't (but was pretty sure they wouldn't help). One of those times, one of the steps I lied about turned out to fix the issue. ¬_¬ Only one, but still! So yeah, I'll never mark a tech support person down for asking me to do something I told them I'd done... once.

[@Jarb2104]

I could actually let them pass 2 or 3 times, if they expect to test something different, for example "now let's re-arrange again, but in this other manner see if the connector on that area is the issue".

[@jatoxo6605]

I contacted Meta support for a dead pixel on my Quest 2, and they actually had the balls to tell me to factory reset the device. For a dead pixel.

[@draftingish4833]

Sounds like something you'd admit to IT Professionals Autonomous meetings. :D

[@PineyJustice]

@@jatoxo6605 I once had tech support ask me to unplug an ethernet cable, and flip the end that was in the device to the wall, and the wall end to the device. I told them I would reset it, or replace the cable, but their request was terrible.

[@blubblurb]

That's why I usually didn't ask them wether they have done that, but just tell them, can you do this, can you do that and so on.

[@Mikemk_]

18:48 Honestly? The computer breaking before the dongle is good advertising for the dongle.

[@andrewpazhookalayil]

@@Mikemk_ Linus hitting the framework hurt my feelings 😢

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

Shows nicely how durable the dongle is. I used to break those ones you had to put in pcmcia slots all the time, so rugged ethernet gets my vote even if ugly.

[@joshua_lee732]

To be fair show me a similar non solid statw machine that wouldn't freeze up after that kind of abuse?

[@pvshka]

@@joshua_lee732 he hit that pretty well. Reminds me of when I played Tekken back in the days 😂

[@sparkydoggo8691]

@@Mikemk_ i would want the dongle to break before the computer though. like really? you want to have to replace the computer before a cable?

[@ako79551]

5:00 great job Natalie!

Great Job Nathalie

[@zepppro8072]

Great Job Nathalie

[@somebodystolemygoddamncarr520]

Great job Natalie

[@bakutie]

job done great natalie

[@TAMAMO-VIRUS]

Great Natalie, job

[@thoptercrew]

Natalie did really well! Elijah, at least walk the editor and let them out of the basement twice a day

[@legionof0ne441]

I wish for these things they would leave the "newb" to their own devices and not step in. If they need help they need to contact the company and not have Elijah come in and help, especially if they are testing for newb friendliness.

[@FatGuyDoes]

At least someone made the comment.

[@andbondstyle]

Was surprised to see you had the same issue with captive screws interfering with the lid when closing, it was a very scary crunch. I also left a comment about that on framework's website (more than a year ago), however now I checked the guide and my comment is no longer there (not to mention, framework didn't add anything to the guide itself). I wish they would process feedback more carefully.

[@aditya.khapre]

Edit: for colourblind folks, the idea of patterns which I have mentioned might help. 10:23 Colour coding stuff would be a game changer. They can colour and pattern code male and female joints and connections for easier recognition. If they want the wires to go in certain places, they can colour code the path. And it won't be that hard too, since they "pre-assemble" the laptop before disassembling it for Shipping, the quality tester person can quickly with stencils just add the colour pattern code for each of the joints and connections.

[@raynjpg]

I like this idea.

[@LeftJoystick]

iirc, don't they already color-code the fasteners?

[@rossrudolph2134]

Good point 👍🏽

[@tienenaar2295]

@@aditya.khapre , colorcoding might be Nice but some people suffer from colorblindness. So matching a color with a vertaling shape would be necessary

[@XiaOmegaX]

@@tienenaar2295 Using a colorblind friendly set of colors should be a no-brainer in this change. They can include the usual diagrams for monochrome.

[@snazzyquagno8834]

I just wanted to drop a comment saying that I did the exact same thing Natalie did when assembling my framework 13. That crunch was sickening and I was horrified that I had broken something. I have built a total of 3 PCs with numerous upgrades and reconfigurations. That was not isolated to someone having less experience building. I will also say that I bought the ryzen version and I am overall happy but I had to order a second ram kit from frameworks QVL list to make my computer stop blue screening occasionally. This definitely ate into my savings from going DIY and probably wouldnt be an issue for the Intel model buti just wanted that out there for anyone considering the purchase

[@nicksurfs1]

@@snazzyquagno8834 I also did the crunch. The forums said the crunch is a rite of passage Lol.

[@simonusios2271]

I too have had this crunch, and the displayport cable not being cable managed properly ended up breaking my bezel a bit. Shame that it isnt glued in or magnetic or something.

[@pocketlint82]

I read the comments ahead of time so i was prepared for that. I saw that there were a lot more comments on those 2 steps than any other, which is a good indicator that people had issues there

[@VRJacky]

Yeah some motherboards do this too, my ram and pcie crunches due to these stupid metal "protecting" brackets

[@Quarky_]

Their B2B team is quite apathetic. When I asked them in an enquiry what kind of support contracts they have for business customers, or if they have partners in my region, they didn't even understand my basic english question and responded "we are not interested in partnerships". And this was after escalating to someone higher up, so it's definitely not some clueless newbie.

[@ionlywatch]

lmao

[@GameTimeWhy]

Thats an amazing response. Im assuming it was google translate or something though to so thoroughly misunderstand.

[@hawkeye7527]

Oof

[@Arvi89]

That's disappointing, I wanted to tell the company I work for to start using framework laptops :(

[@MrTVintro]

Y'all don't seem to quite understand that this is an extremely small startup. Support contracts and B2B local partnerships are wildly unrealistic at this stage.

[@iansterling9589]

I initially bought my DIY Framework 13 in batch B or C of their initial launch. When I finally received it, I found out that one of the magnets in the bottom chassis was glued in outside its footprint, resulting in the input cover not seating properly. I opened a case with Framework and sent them several photos of my laptop with the input cover off, showing the off-center magnet, and with the cover on with the gap on the side. Framework was very quick to ship me a replacement bottom case. It took me all of 15 minutes to swap it out and package the defective bottom case up and ship it back to them. I was extremely happy with my service. I did end up upgrading to the AMD mobo and got new RAM and a new Drive for it, and it's still running very strong. I'm still a very happy Framework customer.

[@bunker1213]

@iansterling9589 How much time did you spend on contacting support, chatting, troubleshooting, taking pictures, and following up on the email(s) that you sent them? I'm going to guess it was way more than this 15 minutes. Because that goes into the frustration account for me for other manufacturers and judging from this video, it would be similar with Framework. I might just order a strongly suspected spare part to not have to do those parts if it isn't too pricy. I guess that is a small win for the Framework concept because they have so many spare parts available.

[@redderthanmisty6762]

While I didn't have any issues with the laptop itself, after a few months of use, the USB cable that came with it started fraying and peeling apart. I got in touch with customer support, who replied in less than a day to confirm the serial number of my power brick, and quickly sent a new cable that arrived in under a week. Compared to my experience with other vendors like Asus, where I had a similar issue, but with their proprietary power connector that took 8 months and sending away the laptop itself to get a replacement, this was unprecedented. Unfortunately, the replacement cable started fraying and peeling apart again within a couple months, but to my surprise, framework still got back to me quickly and replaced the new cable in under a week. The third cable started freying and splitting yet again after another couple months, after which point I said screw it and bought a second steamdeck power supply, as that was actually good enough to charge the laptop while under heavy load, and is still intact after nearly 2 years with my original. So from my personal experience, I had Great customer service, and an awesome laptop, but the included charging cable defo needs work to not be garbage.

[@adultshawarma]

mine is also fraying :(

[@alexlemna7456]

Mine too, though it took mine about 10 months to start fraying. I bought a new cable because I was buying some new expansion cards anyways, but if it happens again I'll be contacting customer support to see about a replacement.

[@robertdascoli949]

If framework doesn't have someone mining all of these comments, they're missing out on a bunch of r&D info for free.

[@SquintyGears]

​@@robertdascoli949 they obviously know about this stuff... It's literally in their customer support tickets. To OP: Personally I stopped getting their power brick after the first purchase. It's fine, aside from the cable's durability, but I saw it as another way to dodge the markup and save another 10~20$. It's just USB-PD, any 65W brick will work with any USB-C to C cable. And even a lower power birck if you're charging power off or not fully stressing it.

[@maxinedurand1314]

I had the same issue, assumed it was just a one-time problem and just got a new charger at Walmart for the sake of expediency. Other than that, my experience with Framework has been phenomenal.

[@GreatItami98]

Thats not Alex from 7 years ago, that's Shaggy.

[@artemisDev]

Undercover Shaggy

[@GuyPipili]

Ro ro!😅

[@helgast1981]

Or like Justine Beiber 10 yrs. from now!

[@viraptorify]

It wasn't him!

[@cameronbosch1213]

That's a "Shaggy using 2% of his power" meme! 😂

[@yeetmeister6924]

My laptop arrived faulty (top cover incorrectly manufactured). The support here in europe was slow and thorough, but good. They asked questions and wanted a lot of pictures but finally decided to just send a new top cover. All in all it took a little under two weeks until i had the new top cover in hand. Definitely not the best, but far from the worst custom service experience I have had.

[@Hnkka]

Two weeks for new part? Thats kinda fast compared to services ive had with different companies, once it took month to receive new water pump for my car because the "new" one failed after 25k miles

[@TekuSPZ]

​@@HnkkaFrom my experience in Europe, specifically Czechia. If you have premium Lenovo laptop, which is what you have in price range of Framework 16 AMD, they repaired faulty motherboard and speakers under two weeks including shipping time to them and back. So it really depends and based on Czech law, not sure if European one, they only have 30 days for repair to complete, or ship you another device, or they HAVE TO return you money. It's pretty strict law here and no one is fucking around. Because they can't. There are some exceptions, like if they get permission from you, written and signed, they can overextend 30 days, but I think maximally to 120 days total, not more. And that's warranty you have on any device sold here for at least 2 years.

[@weirdguybr]

Now, for comparison - Lenovo support. The USB-C/charging port on my E14 started to fail; it is labeled as a "field replaceable unit" on their site if you dig enough, but it really isn't. Chat with support was about 20 minutes, at which point I had an RMA label and packing instructions. Total repair time was about a week, from their courier of choice picking the package at my place in Switzerland, to it arriving in the service center in Poland, being repaired, tested and shipped back. Personally I want Framework to succeed, because shipping a laptop 1500Km away just to repair a USB port is the definition of wasteful, but for now I'll wait (specially as they still dont sell to Switzerland).

[@yeetmeister6924]

@@Hnkka Yeah it was quite quick. But this was a very obvious error in manufacturing (one of the magnets was installed wrong way round so the bezel couldnt be installed). But it still took sending 7 emails in total (and around 20 pictures).

[@konsti219]

My Motherboard in my Framework 13 died after a few months of usage and this was also basically my experience. It took a few emails back and forth with various troubleshooting steps (some repetitions like in the video), but in the end I got a replacement. One thing that positively surprised me is that (as far as I could tell from the shipping label) they had me sent my broken motherboard to repair center here in Germany reusing the box the replacement came in. Shipping was of course covered by them. I am really happy to see that broken parts don't just get thrown away, but repaired by experts.

[@TukkOrdo]

I'm glad you guys are looking into Framework issues, especially their customer support. I have had VERY frustrating experiences with their customer support for issues experienced out of the box. Out of three laptops ordered (7040 Ryzen), two of them had issues that required something to be RMA'd. The third also had issues, though it was resolved with a BIOS update. One required an entire main PCB board to be RMA'd (after 7 business days of sending ~4 pictures daily and them repeating steps taken to diagnose). The other required a touchpad to be RMA'd (after a similar amount of frustrating back and forth). This was while these devices were deployed for use with several employees, and it was an incredibly frustrating experience to resolve.

[@mircoxi]

I'm kinda disappointed to see that the QR code thing is still an issue - I bought a 13th Gen Intel from them last November, and had the same issue with it taking me to the 11th Gen page. The laptop itself is great, but along with the support issues, their main thing seems to be quality control - the subreddit for Framework has quite a few posts about stuff not working or being defective in some way, which is kind of disappointing, and it's getting hard to justify as teething pains for a startup at this point, considering the age of the company. On the bright side, this video did remind me I have a support request about dead pixels that I never got a reply to after sending the proof photos, so I guess I'll be chasing that up tonight!

[@dogbert32]

Not defending framework, and I've never looked at their subreddit. But it's always important to remember that the subreddit/forum/discord for a product is going to have a selection bias to showcase negative experiences.

[@JamesBurdon-gu5yu]

@Dogbert You are defending framework. The bias you are refering to is not a bias, it's a body of consumers having the same issues without companies corporate interests discouraging them from sharing it.

[@MikrySoft]

@@JamesBurdon-gu5yu It is bias, because people are naturally less inclined to share positive experiences, because they are supposed to be the norm, not worth talking about.

[@dogbert32]

@@JamesBurdon-gu5yu it's just a fact. People aren't going to be swarming a subreddit in the same volumes to say, "Got exactly what I paid for." People will swarm to find out if the issue they have is unique to them or if there is a known fix.

[@MrNo0p]

@@JamesBurdon-gu5yu My man you are narrow minded lmao. Of course there is gonna be a huge negative bias coming from troubleshooting / problems. It's the reason most ppl are even considering visiting the sub. it's like trust pilot just worse because people are activly involved due to a dead part or other issues.

[@lilylittle9685]

IT for a company of about 400 EE's here, with about 150 FW machines in our org. The reddit post describing their experience with FW support echoes my experience over these last couple years exactly. It started better, but lately it's just asking for the same thing over and over, pictures/videos, and takes weeks to get anything fixed. They often ask several times for proof that we are the original purchaser of the machine....like, look at our account, we have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars with you, sorry I don't remember which purchase this machine is from, but that's not even relevant. We've had over 30 machines kill their drives (mostly WD drives) and a ton of other issues, totaling around 50 machines that have had to be repaired or replaced. That's a 33% failure rate. Mostly the 1st gen machines with 11th gen Intel procs, but issues with 2nd and 3rd gen machines, with 12th & 13th gen procs respectively have also started to add up. We rarely go a week without a FW device having major issues requiring us to replace a user's machine. I believe in their mission and want them to succeed, but their devices are not yet viable for a corporation.

[@BAD_CONSUMER]

The two things that cross my mind is 1) They are using some ticketing system internally like ServiceNow (total garbage) that results in tickets being treated like hot potatos until they fall into a black hole and forgotten, or 2) They are in trouble and trying to encourage people to just go away instead of costing them money correcting something that was their fault to begin with.

[@nathanaeledward898]

Batch 1 preorder for the Framework 16 sitting on my desk right now. The first unit I received had thermal issues; the GPU and CPU both smashed into 100°C and stayed there under load, despite the fans running full tilt. They did send me a new unit at no charge, but I had to go through the same song and dance Seth did. It was very stressful. When the new unit arrived, the GPU was nice and cool but the CPU was thermal throttling AGAIN. I weighed the hassle of trying to communicate with support for the second time against the reduced performance (-3000 pts in cinebench R23 multicore) and decided I’d just wait for the replacement thermal pads to be available so I could replace it myself and see if that helps. Dear reader… it’s been over six months and you still can’t buy those thermal pads on their website. Everything else is available, but not the thermal pads. So my CPU just keeps cooking itself every time I play Helldivers or run Solidworks.

[@victorkreig6089]

then run your meme game at a lower res ffs

[@Validole]

​@@victorkreig6089that's an unfortunate take. Framework's whole reason for existence is repairability. There are more capable laptops for that kind of money. Also, Solidworks ain't a meme game.

[@stirlinggreer]

I have a batch one with thermal issues too. It's so hot it hurts to touch the keyboard when under load. I spent an ungodly amount to max out the build on this laptop, and now it sits completely unused because of this. not to mention under gaming load the battery drains when plugged in. I am ashamed for buying it.

[@lemagreengreen]

It's a thermal pad, just replace them yourself? can buy them anywhere. Hardest part is working out the thickness (or thicknesses) but a selection of 1mm pads usually takes care of that.

[@DasBuzzBuzz]

@@lemagreengreen Sounds like they're after the Honeywell phase-change stuff. I am also waiting for that to reappear.

[@duxxck]

I used to work at an ISP as tech support. I lost count of how many times I asked customers to turn the network cable around. I.e. take the connector that is in your computer and connect that to your wall/router/switch. This ensures that they actually have the same cable connected at both ends :) "Also listen for the click sound when you connect it".

[@rya3190]

...Looking back on it, maybe I shouldn't have been quite as irritated when IT from Cox told me they were resetting the router... like I did 5 times before I called. Though, not against them, Cox was always a bit piss poor when keeping services more than 1% of what it was supposed to be.

[@celivalg]

that's a smart way to do it, I usually asked to unplug, replug the cable and check the status of the ethernet port leds Caught a few unplugged cables that way

[@kingzach74]

@@celivalg What's frustrating is a lot of modern laptops no longer have Ethernet port LEDs for that "cleaner" "minimalist" look.

[@mindpotato]

18:23 the silent "oh fuck" LOL

[@Jay-qs6jk]

XD

[@guihamelYT]

I was about to comment about Elijah's reaction at that moment... I have to admit, I love those moments where Linus is clearly having a great time mind torturing Elijah 🤣

[@Tkachuk753]

I came to the comments just to see how many people caught that as well hahah

[@OlivierCaron]

Nearly silent!

[@effeKtSVK]

The fact that it’s not censored is so much funnier hahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@TheWesman45]

Well, 30 days and having to deal with email instead of live chat or a phone call sounds like a dream. That is, compared to the dozen plus calls, two trips, and ZERO resolution that I experienced when I RMA'd my ASUS Z13. Oh and by the way, ASUS took SIX MONTHS to drag me around and NOT fix my tablet.

[@rasta77-x7o]

With ASUS's terrible customer service, Gigabytes blowing up PSU's and EVGA gone from existence i am getting stuck for brands.

[@TheWesman45]

Honestly, I understand when stuff breaks. Every company makes mistakes. It's actually physically impossible to not produce some amount of lemons. However, not standing behind your products and taking care of your loyal customers is the difference. Prior to my ordeal with my Z13, I was die hard ASUS. Now? It doesn't matter how cool or how unique an ASUS product is. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Which is a shame. Since I'd love to buy an Ally or that dual screen laptop.

[@SambaJones97]

I got one asus laptop. The zenbook pro OLED. Touchscreen device with a pen for drawing. An intel arc 2 in 1 tablet. Seemed like a dream! Constantly froze and crashed whenever doing absolutely anything. I couldn't really control cooling or anything to do with it. When I finally brought it up with them, life got in the way, i was measly told "well, its out of warranty so it would be expensive". Despite the fact i had the issue since day 1. I sold it, bought a lenovo legion 9i which i absolutely love for just £300 more and honestly dont trust any asus laptops / phones anymore.

[@TheWesman45]

@@SambaJones97 Yeah, that sums up what happened to me as well. The Z13 was so awesome, for like a month. I thought I found a life hack that allows me to have desktop class performance at home(with the eGPU) and better-than steam deck horsepower on the go. While also being a valid and usable note taking machine for college. I was in love, Games were running great and then about a month in games would crash(with or without the eGPU). I still think that form factor is the future and man, when it worked, it was magic. It's just a shame it came from a garbage company.

[@GoodGamer3000]

ASUS Support is a low bar lol

[@banepigeon]

5:00 let’s go Natalie!🥳

[@partialchaos]

Loved the video and I have always wondered how a normal day to day end user might assemble a device like this so watching Natalie piece it together was fantastic! I also agree that asking them to redo something is ok once especially in this context or depending on your environment just to ensure you place it in a known state for yourself to work on. If you make changes to the device in your MDM portal, asking for a restart is the best way for it call home to get those config changes when troubleshooting issues. Lastly, I am a big fan of not just the "How" to do things but also explaining the "Why". Looking at the video and the website I enjoy seeing those things sprinkled throughout but as you mentioned mining for those nuggets in the comments to improve these guides is also a great way to involve and support the community that these comments are aimed at.

[@sky.is.winning]

I'm still waiting on a reply from framework support for a ticket I submitted one month ago. And I sent a follow-up email 2 weeks ago. No initial reply, no nothing. I was very clear about the issue (I damaged one keyboard key), and I got the auto-generated email saying they received the ticket, so it definitely exists. I have used support before and they replied inside a few days, so I understand this must be an atypical experience but it just makes me wonder what happened? Should I submit another ticket? How can they discard both a ticket and a follow-up email? Edit: Submitted another ticket as suggested by the replies and they are replacing the entire input cover free of charge under warranty, despite the fact I clearly told them that I broke it. Whole process took just over two days from the second ticket being submitted. Overall a good experience, apparently my original ticket was moved to the wrong queue and so was in a long line of general enquiries.

[@Ikxi]

After two weeks yea

[@TheGinGear]

You may have sent the follow up email to the wrong spot, and it got lost to the void, or any number of things. I would definitely open up a new ticket.

[@pedrobettt]

I've experienced issues with Helpdesk systems occasionally losing tickets to the void, when I worked as a support tech. It's definitely something you can make another ticket about if no human has replied.

[@andrewalexander9508]

Agreeing with everyone else here. My guess is someone tried to assign it to a use or group, but instead it probably ended up in a group that is unused and un-monitored (void). It will probably get reviewed when someone decides to look for orphans (could be years considering they are a relatively small and newish company). They may work on the ticket then, but chances are the representative will either assume it's been resolved by this point. Or close the ticket rather than interface with an angry costumer that hasn't had a working laptop for months. Just open a new ticket. Maybe reference the previous ticket, but I'd just pretend you never created that one. But if you want to play up the angry user approach then you will want to reference it and the lack of support for 2 months.

[@Tekgnome.]

​​@@pedrobettt Working in help desk we went nearly 3 years before finding out tickets were going into a void. There's was a dashboard "bug" where if I had more than 20 tickets and my queue and added more without doing a response they wouldn't display. Basically the dashboard would only show opened/new tickets up to 20. After 20 only "opened" tickets would show. "New" tickets automatically change to "opened" when I reply initially to them, and adding a "new" ticket to my queue would send out an automated email that it's been assigned and I'm working on it. If I didn't reply when picking up the ticket it would still be assigned to me but no longer visible as the ticket status was stuck on "new". I had a lul for a month and finally churned down less than 20 revolving tickets and realized I had years old tickets hidden away. The ticket system hasn't been updated since 2011 or so, and while I'd like to blame it completely I also should have noticed.

[@Soguwe]

I've had an amazing experience with Framework Support. When the lower modules of my FW16 stood out a few millimeters and proved hazardous, they just sent over a new computer and told me to send over the old one after switching over all of my own components. The swap was flawless, only taking 10 minutes, they could reuse the hardware and it only took five days or so for it all to be over with. Even got another copy of all the pre-order goodies(well, order goodies. I ordered so late in the last batch my computer arrived basically in the same amount of time as a normal order would now) Only weird thing was that I got a new dude/dudette to talk to with literally every mail.

[@Soguwe]

And since I'm on Fedora, my OS just didn't give a fuck that the entire computer suddenly switched. Just went _guess this is my new home now_ and kept going

[@spacecadet2663]

I had the same issue but I didn't want to deal with support so I just bent them as flat as possible by hand. Probably not the right way to do it but it sure was fast!

[@papasivir4241]

That's actually pretty neat! ​@@Soguwe

[@BigTylt]

I also had a great experience with support. I bought the matte display a while back that happened to arrive broken. Support asked me to send pictures of the screen (presumably to check for user-induced damage), and then sent a new screen out without much hassle, and they even let me return the old screen after I received the new one.

[@tempestkaiju]

My Framework 16 batch 1 prebuilt was DOA and would not turn on. I had to argue with them and threaten to return it to get them to ship me a new one. They wanted to send me parts and have me try different ram and I wasn't about to do that with a brand new prebuilt and tested unit. I feel I already went above and beyond for a prebuilt unit by swapping the ram around and reseating everything. There was a reason I paid the premium to not put it together. I was also so early that the batch 1 didn't have the RGB macro pads yet. They ended up shipping it to me later but the RMA unit had them included so I ended up with 2. I contacted them to let them know they accidently sent me 2 and there were quite upset and their attitude was I was trying to defraud them. Overall it wasn't pleasant but I love the laptop.

[@CEbbinghaus]

That is very painful to hear, Especially given that they felt that you were trying to defraud them after they made a mistake sending you another. Very poor customer service.

[@AndrewPL5]

@@CEbbinghausdon’t think too much into this guy. He seems a bit entitled and can only imagine how he was treating their customer service, probably not good. When you are rude to staff it’s likely they won’t want to help you, understandable. I personally wouldn’t blame framework too much on this one, this guy is probably making seem way worse than it is.

[@ziegfeld4131]

@@AndrewPL5there are thousands upon thousands of reviews just like this so no he’s prob not exaggerating

[@AndrewPL5]

@@ziegfeld4131 so you've read thousands of reviews personally that were negative?

[@prvulm]

I really wanted to buy Framework laptop because it checks almost all the boxes important to me and i want to support companies that build such products. - Easy to open, upgrade and tinker - You can save by ordering DIY version - Modular* - Repurpose the mainboard after upgrade - Great linux support - Great CEO - Listens to community feedback* But, that ethernet module. I just could not get past it. Especially after i saw community trying to solve the problem with some diy solutions/3d printing but getting no support from framework and hitting some stupid limits with the dimensions. The are slimmer laptops that have non protruding ethernet port. Framework should find a solution at least for bigger models. Other problem for me was that there is no 14" model which is my ideal size for a all-round laptop, but this wasn't a deal breaker for me. I ended up buying used T480s and upgraded the ram and nvme. 8h battery and ok performance for all tasks except gaming. I really hope my problems would eventually be solved with newer Framework models.

[@x_CrossHair_x]

Just to be Picky (And Heckle your Video 😊) .. FYI.. Aircraft flying in from Taiwan (Arrives from your West.. sometimes Via-Alaska) to Vancouver (Your Graphic Depicts flying in from the East).. That's why it only took 6 Days. 😊😊To Arrive.

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

LMFAOO

[@Mushiwushii]

Planes flying towards the edges of the map never crossed my mind for some reason. I'll remember that from now on!

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

@@Mushiwushii remember that the world is a globe, not a map :p

[@jtackerman28]

I saw the same thing and it bothered my ocd lol

[@x_CrossHair_x]

@@illuminoeye_gamingLOL. I Never thought to think that the Linus gang may be "Flat Earthers" 🗺

[@tonybologna48]

Yeah, this was more or less my experience as well. I ordered the 13 and put it together no problem. In fact the process was wonderful! I was geeking out the entire time I was putting it together. Got it up and running and everything seemed fine but in a couple hours I started getting crashes. After 3 days of troubleshooting, found out I had a bad motherboard out of the box. Big Yikes. :/ I returned it in it's entirety, because I needed a working laptop quickly. I wanted SOOOOOOOO BAD to give them a chance, but I couldn't justify getting a brand new DOA device as a first time customer. I sincerely hope they get better. We need competition! My suggestion would be thicker aluminum on the laptop. I noticed everything felt kind of loose and lightweight. That isn't always a good thing...especially on a laptop.

[@Mithical]

My experience with my framework 13 was amazing. Still use it to this day since I got it 2 years ago. My boss bought the 16. Windows would crash constantly. Replaced ram and SSD since we got the diy one. We spent going back and forth with support for almost a year. My boss got fed up and I had to get really annoyed with their support to get the laptop returned and refunded. I'm still waiting for the shipping label which they said they would send me last week.

[@contramuffin5814]

Might be a windows issue instead of a hardware issue... I've had constant crashes on my Windows desktop until I dug into it and it turns out that one of my drivers was writing to bad memory addresses in kernelspace. Possibly due to a windows update. Deleted the driver, now I'm crash-free. Extremely annoying, but solvable with enough tech know-how

[@Mithical]

@@contramuffin5814 I would have thought the same, but multiple different SSDs. Windows 11 pro, windows 10 pro and Ubuntu all were having the same issue. The only time it didn't have an issue was when I was running the OS off of a USB drive like a Kali live disk of something which makes me think it's more of an issue with the SSD slot. To be honest I should have tested it with the 2nd SSD slot but didn't get a chance to as we are a small business managing IT for multiple other businesses and don't really have the time to sit there and diagnose IT issues on a machine that should be working out of the box.

[@papasivir4241]

I think if you're going to go all the way to getting a fully DIY laptop you should try Linux out man LOL certain Linux distributions are a lot better with driver related things than windows.

[@vipvip-tf9rw]

​@@contramuffin5814 was it driver by Microsoft or by 3rd party

[@maxmouse3]

Also, important to add: I loved that you guys gave him a new 13", even if it was already paid or whatever, that's very cool!

[@flashink6437]

One of the best ways to fix the problem of people trying to close the screen 10:00 is to add a film onto the display that peels off to protect the display and on this film add directions and reminders on how to properly install screens and where the magnets are.

[@defeqel6537]

I guess that would go against their attempt at minimizing plastic use, but could still be worth it

[@MarioPL989]

@@defeqel6537 Then they could add paper with some light adhesive. It's even cheaper I suppose.

[@termiterasin]

@@defeqel6537 could be paper with adhesive. extra cost though.

[@matheusavila2688]

1:34 So, just a regular wallet?? incredible

[@Econcrafter]

Actually no. Its like a regular wallet but less useful

[@aliabdallah102]

No, an expensive regular wallet.

[@zayd162]

LOOOOL

[@glados5065]

Truly an innovation.

[@Mr.JimPickens]

Revolutionary

[@Lanka0Kera]

With a cursed laptop like the example case, wouldn't it be in many ways better for Frameworks to swap it for completely new one and give the broken machine for R&D to figure out what's wrong with it instead of customer support trying to go through checklists? Like after second or third email where customer still can't fix it even with replacement parts etc. That should be the hint to just replace whole system and take apart in a lab, throw it in xray and all that stuff.

[@Chex_Mex]

@@Lanka0Kera yeah if it works they can always sell it refurbished

[@nathanstachowiak7544]

Right, they could have a whole R&D pipeline. Receive dead machine, remove dead components for analysis, remove working components and bin according to age or on-time of device, cobble working units together and sell them as refurbished devices. Use data from analysis to pick hardware vendors or further improve the cooling of their chassis if an issues ends up being recurrent.

[@glyakk]

Regarding the support issues. I worked in tech support and I really do not like asking people to do basic things that I know they have already tried. However, there is a decent chance some magic happens when you finally give in and just do what you are asked. I had an issue with my ONT(fiber modem) a few months ago and I called support I was asked to do basic things I knew I had done and I was sure the ONT was faulty and they needed to send me a new one. So they sent a tech who immediately pointed out that I had just used the wrong ethernet port to connect to my router... I immediately remembered that it had an additional port that was unused. All this to say it was ultimately my fault. We all deny make bone headed mistakes when we are too close to the problem.

[@Cuber-Nerd]

My twocents about framework after purchasing a framework 16 a month ago: I ordered the AMD framework 16 kit and assembled it without any issues. I decided to use it as a linux machine and installed Fedora via the official Framework Fedora install. Everything went smoothly and ran great. Simply because I wanted a few applications that weren't on Fedora, I swapped over to Ubuntu, again per frameworks installation and guides. Again everything worked great. The only negatives I have so far with it is that occasianally upon reboot, the trackpad stops working and requires another reboot to fix it, and that on occasion I get odd system crashes when running certain steam games, which I think is a Linux issue not a framework issue. TLDR: My framework 16 showed up quickly, assembled easily, functions properly, and runs well on both Ubuntu and Fedora Linux distros, with my only issue being the trackpad sometimes not working upon reboot.

[@111smd]

there was an issue with pre 5.9 kernel's and amd that caused touch-pads to not be initialized on laptops "have you updated your kernel lately" so yes your issue is most likely Linux not the laptop

[@4KingPoseidon]

18:26 ‘“oh fuck” shoutout Linus breaking the capture

[@misatzu]

Anyone else instantly thinking it was Bell?

[@TylerTMG]

WAIT NOW I HEAR IT

[@TylerTMG]

why wasnt it cencored

[@4KingPoseidon]

@@TylerTMG they didn’t catch it i guess lmwo

[@misatzu]

@@4KingPoseidon I would guess so too but maybe it was subtle enough (as proven by Tyler) that they just let it pass

[@-lolus-]

21:10 as a current tech support, I support this, users sometimes have negative iq 🤷‍♂. first thing you get told on a training is to not ask same question multiple times, second thing you get told is to asume user did not do shit/did it wrong

[@yekevin]

I second that! Some people try to do the most difficult things first when the solution is just a simple reboot. We can never underestimate the lack of ability to follow simple instructions.

[@Steamrick]

Yep - as someone working in tech support, the number of times that a user disregards some or all questions in a followup... In most recent memory, I asked to schedule a time to have a remote session - and in return I got a copy-paste of the original error message. 'Are you for real?'

[@eoi.n]

As someone in support, the user always lies, even if they don't know they are lying. The Uptime segment in the video is so true it hurts haha.

[@LordDragon1965]

As a first generation support tech (1985-1997) for 3 different PC manufacturers (the stories I can tell about "where's the any key"and the like would fill a volume) I can verify how badly users lie, even when they don't mean to. I recall the VP of product development for a major software publisher that has since been merged off the table that ordered 400 of our machines. When he got his demonstrator that I personally checked before it left our facility, it wouldn't boot. At the time we were still using power supplies that had a switch to convert from 240V to 120V, so I asked him to check to see if the switch flipped in shipment. He said "Let me turn on the light" and the machine booted. He had plugged into the switched outlet in his office.

[@cjude6189]

@@yekevin Same, I might be bias but in the current era of tiktok/social media, people had lost their ability to listen instruction to letter, young or old people. As a team leader, I literally have people to read the instruction out loud to the letter. Otherwise, they had tendency to read couple word and made up/assume the rest of the instruction to something else.

[@duncanbrown4184]

I bought a Framework 13 11th gen. It's fine. My partner still moans I didn't buy a touchscreen device (because apparently she likes fingerprints on her screen) but I'm not sorry I bought it. I am confident that when it needs upgrading in a couple of years I'll be able to buy the parts and do so, without needing to buy a new chassis. I like FWs mission and I'm pleased to support it. Regarding breakdowns, I did have one problem with it refusing to charge on the mains, which turned it to be a known issue with a button cell on the motherboard ceasing to hold charge. There was a clear guide on the website and FW sent me a new cell within a week or two. Now, granted, I have a work provided laptop and a desktop that I use for most work at home. My partner wanted a device she could use for web conference zoom things (and I went way over budget in buying a FW) and since she didn't need the laptop in the period that it was not in full working order, the waiting time wasn't a big deal. If I had another brand of laptop, the problem might not have occurred, but if it had I would've had no way to repair it, and without need to buy a new device.

[@pneumaofficial9581]

I love how independent LTT is from even their own investments to be able to come back and make critical reviews like this. Helps not only Framework improve their staffing / training, they can also get direct unbiased feedback from another company that wants them to succeed.

[@Thisandthat8908]

it's not an LTT investment. It's Linus personally.

[@turtles6283]

as far as i understood this is linuss personal investment

[@itskdog]

​@@turtles6283 it is, which is why they took the time to make it very clear with that very awkward exchange (of course Linus was the one to add that during script review) that he had no involvement in the video other than greenlighting and co-hosting.

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

Linus also co owns the entire lmg business with Yvonne, so his personal investments are important to know regardless. If it was say luke with the investment, it would be a little different for those reasons. Also speaking of luke, given he is effectively in charge of what systems the staff use at lmg, they don't use the framework laptops for reasons of cost but also because it seems a number of the staff prefer macbooks. Plus obviously there's the investment aspect, so it is doubly important that they evaluate them objectively in terms of business needs. While Linus of course has a framework laptops, his daily drive laptop is actually a qualcomm snapdragon x elite he liked it that much.

[@whistler9]

this was hardly critical, the whole video is contorting itself to praise them for every failure. they are frequently sending bad parts to customers, and to me support taking most of a week to agree to replace those parts is hardly 'knocking it out of the park'. not to mention they are getting instant responses while most of us normal users wait weeks for our turn, just to get wait a week between each email only to get a different support person and have to start the entire process over again with no resolution. some of us have gone LITERAL MONTHS without working laptops, so it is insulting to see them brush all these complaints under a rug and tells us it's all great.

[@muffindealer9576]

The Ethernet dongle segment healed my soul.

[@benwu7980]

That was brutal, went way above and beyond.

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

It destroyed mine, then fixed it right back up

[@termiterasin]

Very realistic testing for that one time you drop something and fling it directly on the corner.

[@Azxiana]

I also have had bad customer support with Framework. My trackpad had an intermittent issue and they refused to replace it until I recorded myself for several hours using the laptop to show the issue happening. Also, the TPM died basically in the last month of the warranty of and I gave up trying to get a replacement motherboard from them. I barely used this laptop and I definitely won't recommend it to others.

[@alexdefoc6919]

The video production of this video is much more raw and cool snippets of stuff and also that one joke of talking to yourself was fun! Nice vid guys, glad to tune randomly and see fun little snippets!

[@consumer_cam]

18:12 Linus: "I can't drop it, but I can smash it"

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

Did the same for their new water bottle lid, smashed old on desk, instantly shattered. The desk ended up dented from him bashing the new one which luke inspected and confirmed no damage to.

[@Metal_Maxine]

In the audio scam devices episode (the one with dan and dankpods) he just yeeted something cylindrical at the floor and it burst open. Dan - I think I like working for you.

[@Thorium90_]

Some things that I see that the laptop is really missing: 1. An option for a BIG touchpad, like on the razer blade. 2. Multi-port modules. You can't tell me it's impossible to fit 2 usb-A ports or an audio-jack+SD on a single expansion module. Some not as important but would be nice to have things: 3. Big speaker modules on each side of the keyboard would be cool, or an RGB keyboard option would be a nice option for some. 4. NVIDIA gpu option in addition to the current AMD one for the 16 laptop.

[@JJARCHIE]

Dual A doesnt fit , somebody made maasurements.

[@papasivir4241]

Number 4 is going to be impossible until Nvidia gets the stick out of their ass. Otherwise, all fair points.

[@blazewardog]

Nvidia is the reason #4 won't happen. They don't allow non-standard laptop GPU solutions.

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

#4 would be much appreciated though, i agree. unfortunately, Nvidia is a lil bitch

[@egarcia1360]

@@JJARCHIE dual C (obviously at the cost of speed, but fine for e.g. peripherals)? A + C? A + 3.5mm? While 6 I/O ports isn't terrible, it can still be limiting, especially when one of those ports is your power in, although being able to swap them out as needed admittedly does largely make up for the lower maximum.

[@lucythebrazen]

Oh yeah when my friend got her Framwork Laptop I spend like an hour trying to decypher those LED codes. Turns out everything was fine, but the display connector on the panel got a bit loose during shipping, Took me forever to find out

[@Saerek]

I like the audio jack being a module. Allows you to move it anywhere.

[@grisu1934]

Watching this on my FW16 AND I LOVE IT I had one issue because I needed a fan replacements but the support just wanted a few vids/pics and then send the replacement and everything was fine since

[@dami777]

Framework, please release a double size trackpad spacer for the FW16 or a full size trackpad module without the spacers. It's the only thing that's bothering me since my trackpad is left aligned.

[@Merlinose]

Reading these comments there seem to be quite a few people who receive faulty laptopts that support has to fix. Seems like Framework should invest more in some Q&A.

[@Goodzikc]

To be fair (and as devils advocate) there is likely to be more of a bias towards people who have had issues, as especially on this video they are more likely to respond with their own stories than people who have gotten framework and everything went perfectly fine.

[@blackasthesky]

You mean QA?

[@kutter_ttl6786]

​@@blackasthesky Quality & Assurance. Were you thinking QC?

[@patmkessler]

@@kutter_ttl6786 the term is Quality Assurance, as in "that which assures quality." The abbreviation is QA. Q&A typically refers to "Question and Answer."

[@pBlackcoat]

@@kutter_ttl6786 it doesn't typically have the "and" in it, just "Quality Assurance". Although you're correct, typically in manufacturing the job would be quality control (as someone who's been in QA professionally for the last 20 years)

[@stephengere3937]

SUPERBLY edited and written KZbin video. This truly feels professional and like a masterclass in investigative and entertaining journalism. Way to go team

[@RugerEnthusiast]

Great work Natalie👍👍

[@justindavis5960]

9:06 Ain't nothing but a heartache

[@fara.r.8181]

@@justindavis5960 tell me why...

[@goinginzane]

TELL ME WHY

[@Waterbottle365]

Nice "oh f**k" there at 18:25

[@joshellis5014]

Like LMG I was very excited about the promise of the Framework product/brand, the media surrounding this company and their solutions (modularity, repairability, 13 and 16" sized options, DIY, simplicity and elegance, etc.). I recommended a friend invest in a DIY 16" solution for his son going to college (majoring in computer science). Ever since receiving his Framework 16 - my friend says his son "gushes" about how happy he is and how superior his notebook compares with everyone else's (in classes and community). As with software there is no "perfect" device, but the trail Framework is blazing is important and for their first time out - they are hitting most of their marks on that path. Kudo's for the review and to Framework for getting us this far. Now we hope improvements continue!

[@A_N1ne]

My Track pad died on my 13in (DIY version) about a year ago, customer support got back to me within 4 or 5 days (contact support on end of day Friday or the weekend, so it was probably around 2 or 3 business days). They asked me to do the normal stuff (even after I told them I already did it as I followed their troubleshooting guide while waiting for support to get back to me), update my bios/driver/windows (already did), unplug/plugin the batter/input cover (already did), and take pictures and video of the keyboard/track pad boards/cables and motherboard, they also asked if I was using the correct charger (not sure how this could've killed it, but I'm not an expert). After about 3 days of trouble shooting with them, they sent me a replacement input cover free of charge (they also offered to have me send my laptop to them so they could replace it, if I wasn't comfortable doing it myself. also would've been free). The replacement part was shipped, arriving about a week later. all in all my experience was about the same as shown in the video

[@robertdascoli949]

25:44 if you're going to do the trade-off or meme, you have to get the hand gesture correct.

[@darrenc8697]

only saw the start of the vid so far but I had bought a Framework laptop and interacting with customer support was completely fine. I was able to return the laptop purely because I just didn't want it anymore (no fault of the laptop, just that I probably didn't need such a nice laptop) without issues

[@gorlix]

you are SHITTING me

[@giornikitop5373]

@@gorlix i'm not an expert, but i believe he's being sarcastic.

[@kennyayala6189]

For what it's worth, I've had my Framework for just shy of a year now. I had to open a support ticket twice -- both regarding the power button's fingerprint reader. One was a software issue (I blame Windows Update for that because rolling back the update fixed it temporarily, but a mainboard reset resolved it entirely) and one a hardware issue (fingerprint reader actually died, but still worked as a power button). Both times, I was very pleased with the customer support, and when I finally needed a new power button they shipped it out quickly and at no charge. At no point did it feel like they were giving canned responses and not reading what I was writing (I work in IT and know how to troubleshoot fairly well), but I could tell there was some attention paid to the order of operations in troubleshooting. Each time, their response was quick (within a business day or so at most between responses) and when we finally confirmed it was a hardware issue they did not beat a dead horse or try to pin it on something else but instead immediately determined I needed a replacement part. 10/10 for me, and I love the laptop itself on top of it! (And yes, the modular I/O is fantastic)

[@Blue-cq2hl]

I always love seeing people do things like this the first time on camera. Obvious you can't make it all camera friendly especially if it's not something someone does normally but I like seeing a real thing for these sorts of things For repeating support steps it's also easy for things to get lost too. I find this when talking to new people that it's easy for one or two things out of a list plus all the other stuff you're doing slips through and you ask or repeat a thing. Just another note besides 'first time they're asking for a thing'. It happens. I hate when they ask you to repeat EVERY basic step you've already said you did though. I had to go through this hell with windows activation after an upgrade. From being told flat out bs that was untrue (that the key doesn't follow upgrades despite being retail and converted to digital) to being asked to repeat every single basic step with every single support agent I talked to. That's a hellscape lol.

[@davetreadwell]

1:24 oh bearded Linus how I miss thee 😢

[@notaulgoodman9732]

Hahahaha

[@ryankien7401]

2:55 am i seriously supposed to believe that the plane travelled through europe instead of the pacific?? my immersion is ruined thanks linus

[@vipvip-tf9rw]

Planes don't travel though pacific on multiple factors

[@misatzu]

@@vipvip-tf9rw that sass failed "on" two factors, "though" ...

[@AlexanderTerry]

@@vipvip-tf9rw anchorage international is one of the biggest cargo airports in the world, plenty of freight goes through ANC

[@Bingzhong]

This may be a month old but I had a user come to our company's service desk with their 13" FW laptop that they use for work, and had us go through FW's customer support. I was surprised how quickly they got back to us. It might have been due to the email address we use (hint, it's a government-associated address) that got us the response within the hour, but regardless of that, they didn't give us the runaround knowing we were the IT team, and got the replacement part we needed within a week or so. Needless to say, FW doing what most major brands like Dell or HP isn't doing: being customer first when it comes to customer service. I think somewhere down the line I might just buy their 16" knowing how great their support is.

[@245trichlorophenate]

was looking forward to this since WAN show!

[@LiamAB2000]

Seeing Linus’ hair slowly go back to Bringer as the days go along is what I live for.

[@kullywon5471]

24:00 both urls at the top of the video are for the verge. the one on the right should be an ars technica url.

[@mochisisland]

Fire catch, I didn’t even notice that myself

[@maolcogi]

His face at 11:39 ... I loved that joke, even if it was just way too pun-ishing. xD

[@artursinderovski]

In my Company 50 ppl. We use Frameworks only. Guess how many of them were broken in less than 1 year. We all had the same error. The core clock was locked to 500mhz max. It was the ram slot, which is broken. Out and in, helps for a time. In the end, everyone was replaced. But a broken Notebooks for Work in a Software Company, can hurt.

[@DavidSmith-ry3ht]

@@artursinderovski oh thats super cool, especially since it seems like the original case study probably also had a fried ram slot to start lol

[@randomviewernotrelated808]

15:24 omg Alex looks so different here

[@bandito241]

19:41 nice save there Linus 😂

[@StartlingScorer]

I also did the crunch with the screws :D the side is even a little bit off shape now, but everything works fine. But I recently had a support ticket as well because my new 120Hz screen wasn't working. They send me through a lot of tasks and always when I sent them 10 new pictures and disassembled the whole thing they asked me to do it again the next day and change something else. They were very fast and I understand that we have to try some things, but I don't want to open my laptop 5 times in a row as the lifetime of all the screws and the connectors will just suffer -.- I have to say to this that I also have a not officially supported OS and SSD, what made the support let me do even more things than usual. But when I told them, that I don't wanna open it anymore and please just send it back they immediately gave me a return label and they handled everything super quick and nicely! All over all I am happy.

[@filetmesser6783]

8:00 agreed, its funny

[@Idonotwanthandle]

13:43 I still don't get why fake DIY version is cheaper. Like, I get why it would be cheaper is I buy some cheap RAM and SSD from third party, but thats not the case. You just get manually disassembled laptop with $100-200 discount.

[@blackasthesky]

You mean from the company's pov? Marketing. DIYing a laptop is a thing you can (almost) only get with framework.

[@ZacChilds]

I just checked with the AMD framework 16. The default prebuilt is $1699 and the DIY with all the same options is $1820. The manually disassembled laptop is actually more expensive. Most of the discount comes from it not including full price windows or a power brick by default, and you could save a little more with cheap RAM and storage.

[@talhamalik4910]

It's not cheaper, the only potential discounts come from you sourcing your own RAM, storage, charger, and OS.

[@xlumyn]

it's just a sales tactic, same as bumping up the original price by 10%, then have a "sale" on a specific model for the original price

[@naseeb46]

@@Idonotwanthandle It is pretty simple. By selling the DIY version for cheaper, more people will be inclined to buy the DIY version. And they will get a hands-on experience putting it together, which will make them feel accomplished and feel good about their purchase as it is built by them. This creates a sense of attachment to the computer, and when the time comes they're more likely to buy parts from the site and upgrade it themselves with confidence gained from putting it together when they first bought it.

[@walking_sketon]

25:50 Happy ending!

[@Radutsepesh]

Natalie was refreshing seeing a normal reaction instead of camera molded KZbinr reactions ❤ bring her more often!!

[@TheBadBone23]

So hard to find a company that actually cares for the end user and not 100% focus on the profit...Kudos to Framework, I really hope they will create more budget friendly options for schools, for less fortunate countries etc.

[@AceofTunes]

I convinced my partner to go with Framework for school (we are both in our 30s, I was about half a year into my new career post college when they went back to college in hopes of being able to find better work), anyway, the point is that they have a decent amount of knowledge around computers, built their own desktop prior to us meeting etc. They chose the DIY version for the savings They built their laptop and had a good time They have since commented that they have never felt so attached to a laptop before. By building it themself it made it personal and _theirs_ in a way that they don't normally experience Which I think is a pretty important note too, I plan to buy a Framework DIY the next time I am planning on getting a more truly portable laptop. Recently picked up a used gaming laptop for really cheap to use for now Sorry full ADHD ramble. The point is that I think the DIY has a benefit above the cost savings, being able to build it yourself connects you to it because *you* did this. I like that, I hope that they put that in their talking points at some point. I didn't really see anything about that feeling when we were browsing for my partner's laptop

[@isla2202]

Ew, gay

[@AceofTunes]

@@isla2202 🤣 very

[@sylvy16]

i was gonna say 'gay' but in like a positive way as a fellow lesbian, but i see someone already beat me to it in like the funniest most immature way possible

[@turbochargedfilms]

Why would you need a Framework for that though? A decade ago a lot of this was the norm, I remember buying an HP laptop for about $300 as essentially just a barebones to put another $300 of parts into. Same just before pandemic when I sourced parts for a PT775 DR laptop from like 3 separate services at least lol. The personal attachment to the DIY experience of electronics is extremely important, but it is that very same importance that should inform you of how meaningless FW's approach towards it really is (IN TERMS OF PERSONAL CONNECTION AND NOT ACTUAL PRACTICAL REPAIRABILITY). I can't get a FW laptop as they arent (and will likely never be) sold in my country, but I've perused their forums enough to see a lot of very cool maker projects. Get a decent enough soldering iron and order some PCBs/kits, I can assure you the sense of fulfillment and attachment is much stronger than FW's gimmicky tactics.

[@AceofTunes]

@@turbochargedfilms Almost no one makes laptops that you can upgrade these days, at best you can upgrade the storage in many But there's also a difference between installing the mobo, keyboard, RAM, storage, modules, etc than just upgrading RAM and Storage Additionally the fact that you can swap the MoBo in the future means that the shell is more personal than anything else you could buy and potentially upgrade, since upgrading the CPU is not possible in other laptops

[@Joshua17891]

18:20 "Thank you for destroying our capture..." Then very subtly in the background "oh f*ck" 😭

[@SergioBugalho]

Sooooo no shipping to Portugal ... ????? Message from site : "We haven’t opened shipping to Portugal yet, but you can order in one of the EU countries we currently ship to: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Spain, and Sweden. You’ll need to handle further shipping from there. Note that VAT, warranty service, and returns will all need to be handled in the shipping country. Select a shipping country or get notified when shipping is available in Portugal." Sooo .. if spain that is "next door" gets why not Portugal .. i understand the market here is not very big .. but the logistics cant be that different

[@termiterasin]

International shipping is always crazy. Linus has spoken at length about how difficult it is to comply with 50 states tax laws for the USA. Buy it in Spain lol.

[@AnHonestPerspective]

Anyone else notice on PC around @4:55 when Elijah says "please like the video" the like/dislike button on the webpage gets a rainbow circle around it? Kinda cool

[@techno1561]

KZbin added it a while back for the subscribe and like buttons, where it'll highlight them if it the video mentions "subscribe", or "like the video".

[@metrazol]

Small companies struggle on service. It's so expensive to keep it in house, but so goshdarn hard to outsource. Still want a Framework, as watching one of my interns build a laptop based on a forum thread circa 2010 and insist that he could make all these parts fit, followed by, "Can I borrow your Dremel? And your soldering iron? And is the 5 axis mill working?"

[@_PITBOY]

YAY NATALIE ... not slow clap ... excited walrus, overly emphasized, gleeful smiley clap.

[@misatzu]

that's borderlining sarcasm lmao

[@krisb853]

Can we just take a second to acknowledge how much Elijah has improved and grown since he started hosting. Fantastic video man! 👏

[@leggysoft]

CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK Crashes, reboots, ok. It really is like an old ThinkPad.

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

the torch has been passed.

[@BBGOnYT]

18:24 Linus slams laptop Background worker: "Oh fuck"

[@maxzzzz]

2:54 did Linus forget the earth is round? 😂

[@rotony1]

Is flat bro, you have been lied too 😂

[@normpaul5322]

I got a Framework after the first LTT video, I think mine was from batch 7. The gist I got was that since the laptop is "easier-to-repair", we're expected to be ok with lesser quality. Over time, the hinges came loose, the rubber that seals the screen when you close it, and the keyboard started discoloring. Besides that, it sometimes had power issues and other not-breaking, but annoying issues. After seeing how Sleep would never be fixed, I got a Thinkpad X1 Ultimate used on eBay and sold the Framework as is. Sadly, I no longer have the time to be troubleshooting tiny issues on an almost daily issues. I think their main problem it's that it's a tinkerer-DIY laptop at a not DIY price. It truly left a sour taste in my mouth

[@liam4606]

Framework is really struggling to grow as far as I can tell. Manufacturing and design issues, poor international customer service, virtually non-existent business to business support. Every second or third laptop seems to have some kind of hardware issue in the form of either an annoyance or a downright complete fault. Also, the value just isn't there. Buying a bare-bones build it yourself framework is absolutely the way to go, they're up-charging significantly on RAM, Storage, GPU, CPU, ect. I want a framework, but not for a few more years. Not having an OLED screen option is also a deal-breaker for me these days. Also, if the DIY value doesn't come from labor (if anything they need more labor), why can't they just sell me the assembled laptop without an OS installed? let me just open the laptop and install my own RAM and Storage

[@Orion6294]

I need to know where Elijah got his tax write off shirt 20:37

[@termiterasin]

He bought it from Linus. It's a tax write off.

[@SUSeARC]

0:53 Ah yes, a crack team...

[@AffectionateLocomotive]

Hmhmhmhmmhmhmhmhmhmhmhmhmhmhmhmh😂

[@johnathankohlhepp624]

I was a Batch 1 FW16 customer, everything was great until 2 weeks into owning it the screen went black for no reason. I tried everything before contacting support. In my experience they did ask me to retry some of what I had tried already. It took a while but they eventually gave me a screen replacement, unfortunately that did not solve my issue and I had a ton of back and forth, videos, pictures, email after email. Eventually, they just gave me a full replacement. Still had no idea what went wrong but no issues with the replacement! It sucks I went through that but I was a Batch 1 customer for a brand new laptop, while their support was a bit repetitive, I found them to be pretty thorough in trying to identify the issue.

[@timthefosterdad]

Yes, Elijah, the jokes Linus tried to make were just as bad as you thought they were.

[@joakoc.6235]

I think the concept of the Framework is really cool, but it's too expensive in my opinion, we can get the same specs as a 16-inch Framework with a Ryzen 7 and GPU module for half the price. For example, the ASUS TUF Gaming A16 is available at Best Buy for $1,099, it features the same CPU, a slightly better GPU with a 140W TGP compared to the Framework's 100W TGP, a 90 WHr battery, and Windows 11. In contrast, a similarly spec'd Framework costs $2,261. For the same price as the Framework, we can get a machine with significantly better specs, like an Alienware m16 with i9 and an RTX4080. So if you could bring prices down to a more competitive level, I would definitely consider it. I love DIY projects, just like many of us who have been here since the beginning of your channel when you used the bathroom as a server room, but right now, the price of Framework laptops is just too high for what it offers.

[@Alaster-]

(Having repaired laptops etc for over a couple of decades) It's that old adage - for a given price, you get to choose 2 out of 3 things. For laptops it's generally specs, smaller size/portability & quality design (often coincides with repairability). The TUF is cheap because it's big and plastic. The more money you spend, generally the less you sacrifice.

[@joakoc.6235]

​@@Alaster- Yeah, of course, you have to pay for material and hardware quality, but I think twice the price is a bit much. I’d prefer a more powerful plastic one that lasts 3-4 years with proper maintenance over a premium metal one that costs twice as much and lasts 8 years without issues but becomes obsolete after 4 years because its hardware is too weak to run new software smoothly.

[@Alaster-]

@@joakoc.6235 yep, it depends on your use case for sure. Mine cop a pretty rough time on site for work and plastic ones don't last, and screens tend to get bent... Your requirements do beg the question though - what about a quality metal one that is genuinely upgradable, in that you only have to replace a mainboard (easily orderable) to achieve better performance? It may be a little more expensive now (compared to other premium models), but in 2-4 years time you can buy a new MBD for ½ the cost? And then for the 8 years you get premium benefits, with reduced cost over all.

[@TTKChristo]

Yeah, the problem is at that price, I'm just going to cross-shop it with a MacBook, and...the MacBook comes out looking like a decent alternative value wise.

[@Alaster-]

@@TTKChristo yeah that's fair enough. Macbooks are actually reasonable value if you compare premium with premium (Say against a HP Zbook, Dell XPS etc). The only time macbooks aren't, is when compared against a different class of laptop (like the aforementioned TUF). Or if you score a premium laptop on a crazy 60% off type discount (and generally find out a month later it was discounted to make way for a new model). Macbooks (up until M chips, I haven't had to pull them apart) were also pretty easy to work on - assuming you could get parts. For me the decision against Framework (when I last upgraded) was that they're still having teething issues on reliability, which I can't afford to deal with for work.

[@StormWarningMom]

Quality is low but service is fairly ok... Umm, with the kind of money they charge, I expect better quality. Right to repair doesn't mean I WANT to repair it... just that I CAN if it's required.

[@arsonburneracc]

they're pretty new and this isn't a very common type of product yet to be fair, they're going to have some quality control issues while they iron things out and figure out how to make things better, also they quite often will send users free versions of parts they slightly redesigned and improved so they're constantly becoming more durable

[@crzy9310]

Natalie you did a great job! Thank you for this transparency LTT!