Liquid Sourdough Starter - The tastier and better starter

Liquid sourdough starters a total game changer compared to traditional starters. They are much easier to maintain and will improve the flavor of your bread. This is all you need to know about mastering and maintaining liquid sourdough starters. Liquid starters have a much stronger dairy note compared to traditional starters.
Below is a list of all the tools and flour that I am using. Some of the links contain an affiliate code, feel free to use them if you like my work. This way you support my dream to become a full time Breadmaker ❤️.
My tools:
Banneton proofing basket (25cm length, 15cm width, 8.5cm height): thbrco.io/banneton
Cooling rack: thbrco.io/cooling-rack
Digital kitchen scale: thbrco.io/kitchen-scale
Dough scraper: thbrco.io/dough-scraper
Dough scraper golden: thbrco.io/dough-scraper-gold
Dutch oven for batards (Challenger Bread Pan): thbrco.io/dutch-oven-batards
Dutch oven round (Lodge): thbrco.io/dutch-oven-round
Dutch oven with glas lid (Brovn) - (Coupon BREADCODE for 5% off): thbrco.io/dutch-oven-glas-lid
Infrared thermometer: thbrco.io/infared-meter
Loaf pan (30cm length x 12cm width x 9cm height): thbrco.io/loaf-pan-regular
Loaf pan with lid (34cm length, 13cm width, 12cm height): thbrco.io/loaf-pan-lid
No stick spray (vegetable based): thbrco.io/non-stick-spray
Ooni pizza oven: thbrco.io/ooni-pizza-oven
Oven gloves: thbrco.io/oven-gloves
Oven thermometer: thbrco.io/oven-thermometer
pH meter to check acidity (advanced): thbrco.io/ph-meter-advanced
pH meter to check acidity (basic): thbrco.io/ph-meter
Rolling pin (Coupon BREADCODE for 10% off): thbrco.io/rolling-pin
Scoring Knife Schnittholz Olive: thbrco.io/scoring-knife-schni...
Scoring Knife Zatoba Walnut (Coupon BREADCODE for 10% off): thbrco.io/scoring-knife-zatoba
The best bread knife (made in Germany): thbrco.io/bread-knife
Weck starter jars: thbrco.io/weck-jars
The flour that I am using:
Drax Mühle Manitoba flour 14% protein: thbrco.io/drax-flour
For ze Germans: Which flour in Germany?: thbrco.io/blog-flour
Mulino Padano Bread flour 15% protein (Coupon TheBreadCode for 5% off): thbrco.io/mulino-flour
Strong whole wheat flour (Coupon TheBreadCode for 5% off): thbrco.io/whole-wheat-flour
Baking merchandise:
All my custom designed shirts/hoodies: thbrco.io/bread-shirts-hoodies
Get some of my starter Bread Pit: thbrco.io/my-starter
Happy sourdough shirt: thbrco.io/happy-opencrumb-shirt
Neapolitan pizza shirt: thbrco.io/neapolitan-pizza-shirt
The perfect batard sourdough: thbrco.io/batard-shirt
Recommended videos:
Debaked ep. 1 - Pizza journey to Napoli: thbrco.io/debaked-napoli
Debaked ep. 2 - Journey to a flour mill: thbrco.io/debaked-flour-mill
Discard starter bread: thbrco.io/discard-starter-bread
Fermentation time table: thbrco.io/fermentation-time-t...
Make a sourdough starter: thbrco.io/make-sourdough-starter
Make your starter more active: thbrco.io/more-active-starter
Recommend sourdough bread recipe: thbrco.io/sourdough-recipe
Follow me on other platforms:
Discord: thbrco.io/discord
Github: thbrco.io/github
Instagram: thbrco.io/instagram
My blog: thbrco.io/blog
My website: thbrco.io/homepage
Reddit: thbrco.io/reddit
Subscribe to my newsletter: thbrco.io/newsletter
Telegram: thbrco.io/telegram
Tiktok: thbrco.io/tiktok
Twitch: thbrco.io/twitch
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:12 What's the purpose of a liquid starter?
0:33 Making a liquid starter
2:08 How to use a liquid starter
5:24 Liquid starter maintenance
8:30 Closing words
#sourdoughstarter #sourdough

[@herrgerd1684]

Love the "water highway" analogy 😀

[@dannycarreiro9599]

Can you do a time-lapse of the liquid starter activity? Love your videos.

[@rlwalker2]

In the past, I've just made a spreadsheet adding the flour in the starter I used with the recipe flour, and adding the water in the starter I used with the recipe water. Easy and you end up with exactly what the recipe calls for.

[@lsieu]

I love your inquisitive mind! I have a scale in my Amazon shopping cart because I've been putting it off and I'm tired of frisbees!! Thanks again for your techie brain and sharing nature.

[@corteltube]

Thanks…I am going to experiment with this and I Will let you know how it goes…thanks for all your hard work😊

[@GMan80013]

Thanks for breaking the rules Hendrik. I learn so much from you.

[@hormz7754]

We need a video to see how you bake with liquid starter. The timing, method and etc. Thanks in advance

[@the_bread_code]

Sorry! Just saw this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fn2zf5evfKiGhs0. Here you go. That's how I use it :-)

[@LevitaNostra]

I wanna see it with a stiff starter, by hand!

[@SueBendavid-ux3cm]

Been a fan of yours for a while. Today my bake recipe added 5 g malt syrup and 10 g diastatic malt powder. I used a dry rye starter PH reading 4.87 and moistened it with a few spoons of a the same starter very liquid that was reading 3.87. Delicious !!! I'll make it again. In California. I travel with my starter up and down the coast here. I use artisan flour from Arizona and strong bread flour in equal parts. I also add 5 tablespoons of fresh chopped rosemary. Thank you for sharing how you liquify the starter. I achieve the tangy notes I was hoping for.

[@AnnaEmilka]

In Poland we use that liquid starter to make a sour rye soup, it's delicious! To the starter we add garlic, bay leaves, allspice and pepper, and let it ferment for a few days. Then we make the soup out of it.

[@walterh2lo]

AnnaEmilka, can you give me the name of that Rye soup, so I can google for recepy or instruction video to make the soup, thanks!

[@AnnaEmilka]

@@walterh2lo it's called żur/żurek (but not żurek biały, that's a different soup!) or in english sour rye soup.

[@walterh2lo]

@@AnnaEmilka thanks for your answer!!

[@AnnaEmilka]

@@walterh2lo no problem!

[@jwillisbarrie]

Thanks for adding actual captions for the Deaf. Makes excellent video awesome.

[@the_bread_code]

My pleasure 🙏🏻

[@stefangriep3423]

Today (and the days before) i made a test myself. To increase the sourdough taste i not just used liquid starter...i made a liquid pre dough by using all the water in this stage...it is so tasty

[@fustyler]

nice video - could you do another video to explain why you use 5x hydration as oppose to 2x, 3x, 4x, etc? maybe a video to compare effectiveness of different hydration level to determine which is best?

[@bjorn_]

Here’s an idea: 1) mix your regular 100% hydration (e.g. 1-5-5) and then cover with a “lid” of water (don’t mix in). 2) When you want to use the starter, simply discard the water “lid”. That would keep the math and maintenance unchanged.

[@bjorn_]

I tried and it looked good until pieces of the starter floated to the surface. The lift in the trapped carbon dioxide sank my idea. Trying didn’t hurt!

[@revimfadli4666]

Sounds like how some people store pasta madre, best of both worlds

[@hadargool5717]

Thank you so much! I can't wait to try it! I didn't understand, how can i know when the liquid starter has fermented and ready to be fead/used? 🙏

[@helenjohnson7583]

(The problem I have is getting the original starter going & developed.) Thanks for the additional information & explanation. Everything helps!

[@the_bread_code]

You are welcome!

[@kevinperry188]

For myself, I like the sour it gives. Most quick breads won't

[@samirg7846]

This is great. Thanks! Can you do a video on sourdough pita?

[@davidbeers1952]

I was inspired by your liquid starter. I came up with another idea. I just used my 100% starter and before storing it in the fridge I added a centimeter of water on top of the starter. Gently poured it in. This seals the starter from air as you said and ads less to no acidity. It’s less complicated because you don’t have to go back and forth from liquid to solid starter. When using it, I scoop out the water gently

[@the_bread_code]

Great idea 🙏🏻

[@sesimbra2]

Bravissimo!!!

[@dannycarreiro9599]

I tried this idea too, but by the end of the starter being ready, all the water sunk to the bottom, and the starter was floating on top. I think I'll try it with my rye starter.

[@Riqrob]

Try adding extra dry flour1x the volume of your starter on your starter and refrigerate without stirring. I stir in clean water to activate and it keeps 1-2 weeks in the 'frig without feeding. Worked for 10-12 cycles so far........

[@lorenzobicocchi9078]

I like this idea a lot! I've started yesterday with my first liquid starter and I'm very surprised of its Ph. I've made the starter at 16:00 before going to bed, it had a Ph of 4.8. In the next morning it was lower, Ph 4.1. Also your starter is so few acid?

[@ManLikeWillow]

Love these videos. There are too many snooty math people out there that get highly offended when others do not take exact weight in grams, temperature of everything, and calculate complex percentages and ratios. If you dare say "tablespoon" on some group chats people will come down on you. For me that takes the fun out of sourdough. I enjoy making bread, not color coded spreadsheets. Cheers.

[@emersonacevedo9894]

I have tried this as I like the idea of a mild taste and an easier starter to manage, however when I use it I hardly get any rise using 10%. I can notice the dough is fermenting but not rising much even after about 15 hours at around 20 degrees C. I look forward to your next videos regarding liquid starter as I would like to understand why mine has failed.

[@Bee-of5xz]

Hi Heinrich! I’ve just made Neapolitan pizza today with the liquid starter. I came out great. I need to know what I can do with the non used/discarded starter. I don’t like to waist it. Thank you for the instructional posts.

[@Gokukakarot-onYoutube]

I baked a couple of times with the high hydration starter. The pH was already 4.0 or below, whey I added it to the flour to mix the dough. So it was pretty acidic. The bread was sometimes briljant, sometimes not so good. But the latter may have been because of changes in my baking method or too much water in the dough mixture. Right now, I have switched to the stiff sourdough and keep it under water. I do see some similarities, as the starter is under water in both cases. I think the high hydration starter is fast in fermeting time, but the yeast in the starter must have died off when the pH goes below 4. So is the fast fermentation done by the yeast in the flour of the dough? The taste of the bread was great. The pH of the drowned stiff starter never goes below 5.5, even after 7 hours of bulk fermentation, so there is a big difference. The high hydration starter-dough would have pH value around 4.5 in that timeframe.

[@cheenriquemunozramirez5618]

I have fallen in love with this starter. I now use 500% hydrated starter as my preferred starter, though I will switch from white to whole wheat depending on the recipe. My all time favorite is Tartine's recipe, but I've modified the baker's percentage to use the liquid starter. Using the liquid starter removed the strong sour flavor that I didn't like that much and became very mild and tangy. But it is still, essentially, the Tartine's recipe. I hope people will enjoy this modified recipe: 100 grams Bread Code's 500% percent hydrated whole wheat starter (use within 16 hours in my experience) 717 grams water for the autolyse 950 grams white bread flour 133 grams whole wheat flour 50 grams water for salt 20 grams salt Then follow Tartine's instructions to make the bread. This modified Tartine recipe was just delicious. Even when I refrigerated for about 20 hours (I had to go to work), the bread wasn't vinegary sour. Tasted like good, real bread.

[@KimSooAcu]

Thanks Che! Ima try this!

[@UnicornLover7335]

Do you have a link to the recipe? :)

[@charliejolly6022]

I feed my starter when I take some out to bake, I never measure. It's a constant cycle. This has worked well for me but definitely not as well for consistently. Measuring helps with consistency but I think the main sub point I want to make is that starters are flexible!

[@klbfarwell]

I'm new to this and your post has made me feel better...

[@chipham424]

Thank you Hendrik. Can i keep liquid starter in the fridge and feed once a week like regular starter?

[@hinrichberlin8156]

Hendrik, you promised to try making a drink of the liquid starter's excess liquid? I'd be thrilled to see that (I always just drink it ...)

[@Dlgeis]

Thank You for your video. I use a similar method. My starter is approximately 70% hydration and I keep about 200 grams in my fridge. When I want to bake my sourdough I take a mixing bowl put 12g NACL in the bottom, then top with 600g flour (I like 30/70 wg/14% protein bread flour) In a separate container I place 480g of H2O, 30g-60g of my starter, and take some of my measured (in salted flour from the top of my first bowl, after a few hours I add more flour total 10%-20% and allow it to become very active. Combine all ingredients to make my dough. 1. Hydration is very accurate. 2. Very simple measuring steps (one time measure of water, flour, salt). 3. One mixing bowl and one 1 Qt deli container.. 4. Liquid starter is very active. 5. Easy to vary timing as desired. Options such as add small amount of flour to starter the night before then add more the next morning and make bread OR for more sour increase initial starter flour and do one step fermentation.

[@Dlgeis]

Un salted flour not in salted

[@isabelab6851]

Love your channel…I cannot do this much work! 🤣🤣🤣 I feed my starters once a week…they are in the fridge…Florida….yes, cannot keep them all the time at room temp. I bake once a week. I have not tried this yet but I will need to experiment…and yes we are getting into summer…super crazy hot and humid

[@yuriisheliah9105]

Butbut... Life without an air conditioner is not possible in Florida as well as without dryer. :) I mean your house is the big fridge.

[@aLexTaKaTu]

So, did a whole lot (8 loafs 1 kg each) yesterday with a lactic starter. First things first, the dough holds better to the ph, i normally bake after 12/14 hours in fridge storage but yesterday due to work I couldn’t bake until 8pm (24 hours storage). I saw my doughs before baking and they were holding amazing (thinking that I would arrive to a liquid mess in the fridge) even the crumb look super healthy. Flavor wise, i was impressed by the clean lactic notes. Baking went easy and without problems, a little less oven spring than normal but still, couldn’t complain However, there’s some flavor complexity missing, it’s my only debate right now, one thing is for sure, if I baked that dough with my regular starter, it would have been a flat mess to deal with. My dough has 76% hydration, 36% whole wheat and 25% leaven (and climbing), i was impressed how clean the flavor was truly. Even though my fridge holds the doughs at 2 or 3’ Celsius, I’ve seen doughs going flat as pancakes with 15/ 16 hours The only thing I’m still debating is flavor, I’ll let my staff try it today but overall must admit this is an exciting discovery. Thank you so much for sharing, it is a game changer

[@robohippy]

Well, playing with this for one of my starters. You didn't warn us that we may need one entire refrigerator just for all of our different starters. I put a rubber band around the jar with the liquid starter in it and after 36 hours, no rise at all. That makes me wonder how to tell when it is active. I did stir it a bit and there were bubbles, but I couldn't really tell if they were from stirring or from the starter getting active. I fed it again, and will let it sit another 24 hours or so. Side note on pumpernickel bread, best description I found was from Wikipedia. Apparently with traditional pumpernickel, it cooks at about 250F for up to 24 hours in a 'steam oven' to get the 'malliard' reaction for the color rather than adding coffee or chocolate, though both might add some taste.

[@SamuelAlamo]

Maybe a bit late for a question in this video, but do you mix both your stiff starter discard with your liquid starter discard or do you have two separate jars?

[@lauraz3124]

With the liquid starter, the water content is a lot higher w the discard too. And there is more discard (weight wise) because a smaller percentage of the starter is being used. So in using any discard bread or pancake recipe, we would also need to adjust the water percentages accordingly right? I only bake once a week and feed my regular starter once or twice before baking. Not sure if I can stick w this schedule w a liquid starter? A bit concerned w all the discard that would pile up quickly in my fridge but since the flour content is low I guess it wouldn’t be super wasteful if I have to throw away most of the discard?

[@Nanvag]

Hi Hendrik, have you tried to make a whole wheat bread with the liquid starter? Because we've been eating frisbees this whole week again :/ With the liquid starter the double in size proof hack doesn't seem to work. It simply won't rise (even after 12 hours). My previous 100% starter works fine, especially after your video which made me skip the over night autolyse. Does a higher hydration starter take longer to get ready perhaps? Like 24hours instead of 8?

[@djt1316]

Thank you so much for making this video. Quick question So after you've combined everything while the fermentation process is taking place. Is it a good sign to see the material at the bottom of the jar float to the top? I also see bubbles forming.

[@the_bread_code]

Yes! That's a good sign. That shows that the yeast is creating CO2.

[@kentsel]

2 words makes you happy *Gluten tag*

[@the_bread_code]

Always!

[@patrick-west]

Think this is the first Bread Code video I've seen... But I subbed about 3.4 seconds after hearing that... Cause if I can get sourdough tips and puns at the same time I'm IN! :P

[@kentsel]

@@patrick-west lol

[@robohippy]

Well, I have been trying to figure out why my starters are more fruity than sour. I will have to watch your 3 different types of starters a few more times for it to sink in. Thanks! Oh, I was wondering if that black bread you baked was what we call pumpernickel? Been craving that.

[@jasminekohli8615]

Hello, how to keep this liquid starter if we do not bake bread regularly? keep in refrigerator or kitchen counter ? and what would be the feeding timeline

[@DeeBeeStudioSabah]

Hi I just came across your video and I wanted to test this out on my pizza because I want to have more fluffy crust and lighter as well. But instead of 500% hydration can I use 300% instead?

[@BlackBalloonGraz]

In your later videos you recommend a stiff starter. It's more yeasty and milder you say. So best to keep a liquid starter and before baking convert it to a stiff one??

[@kevinperry188]

As s it turns out, my starter has been this way since the begining. I like the extra sour it gives. I did start another that's not as watery now

[@perfidiousalbion9975]

@Craig Whitley i changed mine to a more liquid consistency(small layer of water on top) and it is still sour, but less vinegary.

[@Sepp2009]

this video was very helpful and answered a lot of my questions. altough I'm still wondering, how can you tell if the liquid starter is ready? does it double in size aswell?

[@the_bread_code]

I didn't find a good answer to that yet. The scent definitely changes. Plus you see a few bubbles on the surface. There is no size increase though. By using less of the starter (5-10%) I make sure I don't use overly ripe starter.

[@yuriisheliah9105]

You can maintain liquid starter and make 100% out of one just for your bread. It looks like a good work around.

[@bentleypetsky7030]

I did it! I made a liquid starter and then the next day, I impulsively made a loaf using your 400g bread flour-100g wheat flour recipe. I used 50g liquid starter and 315g water. No autolyse. Just dumped everything plus the 10g salt. Mixed. 30 min rest. Couldn’t even coil fold. The dough was SO tight with no handling other than initial mixing…almost rubbery feeling. I rested again for another hour but this time at 80 degrees. It started to soften but I decided to not touch it as it was still very strong. Let it bulk rise for a total of 5 hours, no folds. Then shaped into batard and second rise for 30 min but the poke test indicated that maybe it was over. Then froze for 30 min while I heated the oven because I was scared to let it retard since it was already done. I was going to parbake so baked at 500 for 30 min because I forgot to lower the oven temp 🙃. Realized I was beyond parbake when I lifted the lid so baked another 15 min at 450. Sliced before it was cool because I couldn’t wait. Here it is! drive.google.com/file/d/1XVGOciUzlonqzq1FitH3sWkHX0sntgoU/view?usp=drivesdk

[@CykoruKun]

that's a really handsome loaf, kudos

[@here2peer]

Hi. I've been having problems while making bread recently, using dry yeast. The dough isn't rising as much as it should, leaving the finished bread quite dense. For this reason I've decided to start using a starter instead of the dry yeast. I like the idea of the liquid starter, as you said it gives the bread a more dairy flavour. My question is, when taking some of my original starter, which I only began this morning using 100g wholemeal flour and 100g water, do I also feed the liquid starter for a few days before using? What I mean is, if I continue to feed my regular starter for a few days and then take a small amount from that to then begin making a liquid starter, do I then begin the process again, feeding the liquid starter for a few days before I use it to make bread, or is it ready to use after only o e or two feeds? Sorry if it's a dumb question. I'm new to starter science lol

[@piotrcykowski5511]

If You are using rye flour You can cook amazing soup with this high hydration discard.

[@Freedm762]

Hi, i want to ask, do fans affect the browning of the bread or not? I have some problems that the bread didn't brown just like i wanted, the color i got is only a light brown, almost tan

[@corteltube]

So does the liquid starter grow in column like my regular starter which doubles or triples…how do I know it’s read to use? 😊

[@smoermail]

I really cant get it to work. when i use the super liquid starter i have very little rise in the bread. I use around 20% starter and follow my normal procedure, but i cant seem to get it to work. I know the starter is active since i see a lot of bubbles before use. What could be the issues? I do autolyse, then knead the dough with salt and let it sit for 3-4 hours before putting in the fridge. Next day i preshape the dough, shape the bread and put it in my bataan to rise for about an hour. Then i bake it in dutch oven at 230 c.

[@maboo736]

Quick question: how to feed your liquid starter for maintenance? Is it the same concentration as when using the regular starter for conversion?

[@niklasputhe9678]

Do you do an autolysis with the liquid starter? Because that would mean, if you treat your starter like water, that you have a very low hydration during the autolysis. Does ist work anyway?

[@angelikaradominska5512]

Or when You have too much liquid starter You can make really tasty soup- żurek 🥰- when your starter is rye based.

[@Fred_P]

Or white barszcz with wheat starter : )

[@workathomewp]

How would you make a soup with it?

[@angelikaradominska5512]

@@workathomewp You need smoked pork ribbs and vegetables. You make broth with it and we serving this with hard boiled eggs

[@Fred_P]

@@workathomewp You add the starter to some stock and it becomes a thickening agent and adds acidity to the soup.

[@krazyolie]

If only using once or twice a week, would it be sufficient to just leave a small amount behind and store in the fridge and feed before the next loaf? That way no discard/ surplus once you have it going

[@antony1087]

In order to increase the lactic acid further, over you mix the liquid starter, could you not treat it as a single use levain liquid starter and pour a thin layer of olive oil onto of the liquid starter to further block oxygen out?

[@einmanaulfur]

Ok, sourdough pancake (crêpe, not fluffy) challenge accepted ... working with a pancake batter ratio of 2:2:1 (egg:liquid:flour) and a 1:1:5 starter and an egg weighing about 50 g, I came up with: 50 g egg, 60 g liquid starter, 15 g flour. 😁 Worked out perfectly! Haha, maybe I'll never bake bread with my starter (it's only a week old), I'll just keep it for pancakes in the morning. 😂

[@MzTreeLdy]

How do you know when the liquid sourdough starter is ready for use in the bread recipe?

[@philiprecktenwald7596]

Greetings from germany, your videos are great =). You states that the water creates an air tight surface, wouldn't a air tight lit do the same? I experienced a milder and more sweeter fragrance with a tight lit in general. Keep up the great work =)

[@revimfadli4666]

Well if the airtight seal doesn't risk exploding...

[@DavId-qz4ej]

I love that you experiment with this. With a normal start we would measure the growth of volume of the starter to determine approx when the peak fermentation is. How would youndo this with the liquid sourdough starter? Or is it similar to yeast water where one would observe this more in a relative sense of bubbling?

[@KennethJLim]

Would like to know this as well.

[@the_bread_code]

Great question. You will notice that a lot of bubbles are coming to the surface. That's a sign that it's active. Also use your nose, you'll note a yogurty scent. Don't worry too much about it. Your starter will also mature inside of the bread. I think measuring peak performance of a starter is overrated. If you use 20-40% starter sure, but if you go for 5-10% definitely not.

[@DavId-qz4ej]

@@the_bread_code very interesting! Thanks

[@KennethJLim]

@@the_bread_code good point. Thanks!

[@edtayl]

This is really helpful, thanks! One question I have is, with a normal 100% starter i can judge when it's ready from the size increase, and schedule accordingly cos I know how long that usually takes. How does the liquid starter work with typical timings and also how can you tell it's super-ready to bake with?

[@the_bread_code]

Yup. That's the biggest problem about this approach. You have to rely less on timings, rather on how the dough feels like. A sample jar to monitor the progress works best.

[@tamirazogui7222]

@@the_bread_code Hi, and how would you create this sample jar?

[@bjeanes]

@@the_bread_code your sample jar looked stiffer than the LSD. If so, I'm not sure how that cna be used as an indicator as the environments the starter is in is different. Or are they the same but with the thinner jar, it _does_ double in size?

[@ianbown3543]

Very interesting thanks, I will definitely be giving this a try soon. One thing I don't understand is does the starter double in size, & how do you know when it's ready to use?

[@ianbown3543]

You say at the end you would use 30g is that for 1 bread?

[@the_bread_code]

Great questions. I judge it mostly by the scent and if I see some bubbles coming to the top when I slightly stir it.

[@the_bread_code]

And yes, 25-50g for one bread :-)

[@Qaeter]

Just buy a 300€ pH meter 😬

[@hattorizen]

@@Qaeter can we use litmus paper? 😂

[@vdichev]

Your idea to use a liquid starter has been brewing in my mind for a while (sorry, couldn't resist). I have a question though: the sourness apparently preserves the bread from mould and extends its shelf life. If you eliminate the acetic acid, does it mean that the shelf life is reduced? Or does the lactic acid still play a role in preservation? Have you had any observations? Or is it time for a new experiment ;-)

[@laurynthank1158]

Hello all sourdough growers, I've been watching and watching the videos but still can't figure out once I transfer the regular to liquid starter. Should I just keep it in room temperature? and how many days should I feeding it and should I use it right away when the feeding is finish, or can I put it in fridge for later baking? thank you.

[@momepenni]

Can you store it in the refrigerator for 4 weeks???????

[@jensevan467]

Hallo Henrik, was ich nicht verstanden habe ist: wie oft man die Liquid-Prozedur wiederholt, bis er reif ist. Kannst Du das nochmal kurz sagen. Danke! Gruß, Jens

[@D0zer122]

Doing a mass balance of water and flour works

[@tothpianopeter]

This extremely liquid starter sounds like a good option for me as I prefer sourdough breads with less acidity. I started one today using my regular starter. There is one thing that puzzles me, though. I understand what you say about this starter being more active due to the high water content. On the other hand, flour is the only food for sourdough bacteria and yeast, water isn't. Of course water is necessary so that the flour can be hydrated and the fermentation can start. But flour is the main ingredient, that is what the cultures feed on. In my mind, the logical conclusion is that the more food (flour) is available in a starter, the more vigorous the fermentation is, hence a stronger, more active starter is the result. If I compare let's say a 100 grams of stiff starter at 60% hydration to a 100 grams of super liquid starter at 500% hydration, the available food in the stiff starter is a lot more than that in the liquid one. Therefore, to me it is hard to imagine that 100g of starter at 500% hydration makes the dough rise faster than 100g of starter at 60% hydration, simply because the former consists of mainly water but not much flour, the essential fuel for the cultures to thrive. I look at it as the stiffer starter being a more concentrated one, and the super liquid one is a more diluted one. My reasoning may be wrong though, and this super liquid starter obviously works for you, so I am probably wrong :) In any case, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

[@oldkingcrow777]

I think, based on different bacteria/fungus culturing I've done, that the water might just allow for more free movement. That initial flour might very well be enough food for it to propagate and the water becomes saturated with the cultures. I don't know for sure, I just know liquid cultures are far easier to use and rapidly propagate and keep well, when compared to solid media versions in my experience

[@ditlevmelbye4774]

This is definitely something I want to try, but when do I now when the starter is ready to use?

[@Samammie]

I asked the same question, and was told that once you see some bubbles at the top..it is ready :)

[@amyhehn3903]

Hendrick, do you ever try hybrid doughs that use both sourdough starter and some active dry yeast, such as a Pain de Campagna or Field Blend #2 in the book Flour Water Salt Yeast? I've been baking these breads and they are beautiful and delicious! They are not "pure" sourdough breads, however!

[@the_bread_code]

Thanks! Yes, it's a great trick to combine the best of both worlds. I like to do that for burger buns.

[@manuelescamilla7475]

I have already developed a liquid rye sourdough. Will bake this weekend. I normally keep my sourdough in the fridge feeding once a week. Is this how you recommend leaving the liquid version too? Maybe adding extra flour 1:1:5 ratio so the bacteria has food while being sowed down by the cold?

[@the_bread_code]

Yep! Great idea. That will work.

[@jonathansessay7607]

Quick question, with the stiff starter you can see when to use depending on the size increase, how do I know when to use the liquid one? I know you said look for the bubbles, but those bubbles stay there for hours and hours so I don’t know when it’s past peak activation.

[@the_bread_code]

That's a great question. I don't have an answer to this yet. You could use a pH meter for instance.

[@shienyinglai9039]

Exactly what I wonder too! I love that yogurty note but I dont know what's the best time to use the liquid starter after feeding because I cannot monitor the rise and fall. Looking forward to your answer when you have one!

[@yemimarina8768]

Hello...... Can we store this in the refrigerator, when we're not using it? Like the 100%hydration starter (feed it once a week)? Coz I live in Indonesia, hot temp everyday. It will be very often feedings if we keep it in room temp. And how we can see their growth or how can we see if they're dying?

[@the_bread_code]

Yep. Definitely. Give it a feed before moving it to the fridge, that will make sure your yeast/bacteria has food. Then just take it out when you need it, use a little bit of it to make the actual dough. No need to give it prior feedings :-)

[@eddieagha5851]

To make this starter you have to start with an active starter. I'm in the process of making my first starter, but I'm at Day 10 with no action yet. I'm using a 1:2:2 feed, and whole wheat flour.

[@the_bread_code]

Damn! Maybe you can try looking into a stiff starter. It might help to get more activity.

[@eddieagha5851]

@@the_bread_code thanks.

[@mohhkneekuhh]

Have you considered creating a yeast water starter and comparing the taste to a traditional starter? Would love to see your results!

[@the_bread_code]

Good idea.

[@falkokraft]

Using yeast water will create a bread without any sour notes. It tastes good in my opinion but I‘m missing a bit the subtle sour notes of a sourdough bread. But this is, of course, a matter of personal taste. For sweet baking yeast water is a great option I think due to its mild aroma.

[@falkokraft]

@Craig Whitley Have you tried refreshing your yeast water? I usually take around 50 grams of the old yeast water (shake well before using to dissolve the yeast) and add 50 grams of white sugar and 300 grams of water. Shake well again and then let it sit for around 12 hours at room temperature till the bubbles start rising again. Then your good to go again for the next bake.

[@dianel.9703]

@@falkokraft how do you make a wild yeast starter? Thanks

[@falkokraft]

@Craig Whitley Hmm, that’s weird. 🤔 I never had my yeast water to emit such a smell. It always smells sweet-ish, like beer or bananas. I refresh it once every one or two weeks approximately. I use to shake the bottle from time to time to stir up the yeast particles at the bottom of the bottle, too. And I keep it in the fridge.

[@klaskristian1]

Intresting. I have always have had a more loose starter, like 1 part flour and 2 part water. I like that better than a starter with thick consistency. Have you tried Pat'e de levain? I mean old dough. When yiu making the dough you take 1/4 or so of the dough and use in the next batch as a type of starter. And when you are making the next batch you take away a new piece of the dough for the next and so on! I know some bakeries use this method, like Poilane bakery in Paris. I think they use only "old dough" and no additional starter or levain? I find this very intresting cos their breads in a way dates back to their first bread cos everytime they bake a batch some of the dough indirectly dates back to the 1930. This is very cool cos it is like their old bread "living on" in their new bread.I think they take the "pate de levain" after bulk, or in the middle of the bulk fermentation? I am not really sure?But as they bake new batches everyday, i dont think their are no problems of the "old dough" getting overfermented before putting it in the new batch. I have been thinking of trying this method. If i baked several times a week i would, because then i would not have to care for a starrer, just put the fermented piece of dough into my "new" dough. . This liquid starter, does it need as frequent or less frequent feedings as a thicker starter, or is the feeding ratio the same?

[@the_bread_code]

It works. It's a great option too. Both method will get you the same results.

[@klaskristian1]

@@the_bread_code Yep i have been curious of this "old dough" method. I guess by this way there are zero discard, and the taste of the bread would be diffrent i guess. But one have to bake often, because having a oiece of dough in the fridge i guess will overferment it rather fast. But if you bake once a week or mire i guess its a great idea? Can you do a experiment video baking with old dough? That would be fun!

[@klaskristian1]

@@the_bread_code Today i baked a great bread. I baked it as one big 1,5kg loaf. Not a good ovenspring, but crum and crust was amazing. The firs bread in 5 that is good. I think i know the problem. I was using bad starter. This time i said to myself. My starter shall be in tip top condition. Not one more bad loaf! For this bake i really attended to the starter. Fed it morning and evning for 4 days before i baked the bread. And the bread was great! Wheat/wholegrain spelt and some rye! I guess i have to keep maintaining my starter this way!

[@S0ulbanish3r]

Hab versucht aus einem teil meines normalen starters einen liquid starter zu machen. Sah auch alles sehr viel versprechend aus, co2 bildunt war vorhanden etc. Aber als ich ihn tatsächlich benutzt habe hat sich mein teig 0 vergrössert... habe danach einen test teig gemacht der aus 60% dieses starters beatand uns selbst hier... no rise :/ auch hat sich nach 2 tägigem nicht-fütters regelmäßig äusserst schnell eine haut auf dem wasser gebildet... da aber alles gut roch und nix fell hatte oder seltsame farben habe ich alles für ok erachtet... ne ahnung was da los ist? :/ hat der liquid starter einfach kaum triebfähigkeit? War er tot? Echt weird :/

[@tiinafin]

Can you store this liquid starter at the fridge like the regular one(and for how long)? 🧐☺️

[@the_bread_code]

Yes! For a very long time as well. Make sure it's ripe before moving it to the fridge. It should taste sour. This just makes sure that you don't get any mold.

[@jasminekohli8615]

@@the_bread_code and to use it back again from refrigerator we do it directly (when it comes to room temp)? Or needs some feeding?

[@sergy5337]

Hi - How can I modify this recipe if I use normal, 100% hydration starter (which has been in fridge for quite a while)? Can I "simply" use the bakers math to adjust hydration to ~80%, or is the whole process with 100% starter going to be different? I bake bread about once in 2 weeks, can't afford liters of leftover starter :). BTW, regarding separation of water layer on the top. You mentioned using wholewheat flour to feed. Have you tried white flour? I'm just guessing the separation is due to bran not absorbing much water, and if you used white flour there wouldn't be water separation. Tnx

[@the_bread_code]

Yep. That's going to be exactly the same! So nothing will change! I think the layer of water is normal. After some time the flour just sits near the bottom. White flour works too, try to use 10% whole wheat though. Contains important nutrients :-)

[@JoseLausuch]

Normally we treat the starter as another ingredient and a fraction of the total flour, but it contains flour and water and that should be considered for the maths... So, making a preferment you can control the hydration with more accuracy.

[@kevinperry188]

As Hendrick does. He takes a small portion of the bread you're baking and puts it in a small jar next to it. When That doubles, GO

[@JoseLausuch]

@@kevinperry188 No, no, that's a different story. I'm talking about having a starter where you know exactly how much flour and water it has, and then, count them in the total flour/water.

[@Samammie]

@@JoseLausuch Usually that isn't needed with a 100% hydration starter, but any other hydration I see how it would be beneficial to factor it in so you have an accurate total hydration percentage..but I wouldn't do that math until after you figure out the % of starter you want to use and measure it out, then adjust your water accordingly

[@NicolasEjzenberg]

I like the idea to have a yogurt taste without yogurt ! Can be interesting in vegan recipes !

[@voidremoved]

can you mix up a ball of dough then use a needle to take some liquid starter and inject it in to the middle of the dough then let it ferment?

[@the_bread_code]

Interesting idea HAHA.

[@joefarmer7727]

Great video as always. Can anyone help me? For days my starter won't rise more than 10 percent.. Today I opened the jar after the time it should Max out and it was hard to get the top off. And puffff, there was a sudden punch of air and my starter doubled in 1 second.. I had the lid on too tight then.. Did I create a kind of vacuum? It seems kind of like your liquid starter, little oxygen when the lid is too tight, almost airtight. What is best for the starter, much O2 (oxygen) or just a little or nothing? I think many bacteria and yeast are anaerobic, but some are aerobic, need air. Like you talked about 2 or 3 times. What do you do. I never heard anyone talk about that. The lid on top. I will just put the lid on loosely now but wonder what is best for my regular 100% starter. Thanks to anyone who can enlighten me.

[@the_bread_code]

Yup. Don't have it airtight :-). That works best for the regular starter. I just losely place the lid on top, mostly to make sure bugs don't enter the jar.

[@rickknowlan8949]

I've tried starting a liquid starter twice, and both times it got a very thin white-ish film on top after just one day that looks like it might be mold. I've kept it covered with a screw-on lid, but not air tight. The liquid starter was inoculated with my regular starter, and fed with whole wheat flour and filtered water. Our home is very well moisture controlled and undergoes several forced-air changes per day, and has no mold problems. I wish I could post a photo to show you. When the starter bubbles, the bubbles pop to the surface but don't break through the film on top. Do you have any advice on what to do?

[@the_bread_code]

Could you get yourself a pH meter? Try a larger inoculation from your regular starter. This way you make sure that your starter has all the potential to take over :-)

[@rickknowlan8949]

@@the_bread_code Thanks for replying. I'm looking for an excuse to get a pH meter! Hahaha! But yes, I'll try starting with a larger inoculation first. But that pH meter . . . tempting especially for a fellow engineer!

[@rickknowlan8949]

@@the_bread_code A few things to add on this topic of the "white film" on top of my liquid starter. I trashed the starter with the white film on the top, sterilized my jars and tools, and re-started a liquid starter from my 100% hydration starter. I left it covered on the countertop for 24 hours then put it in the fridge. The film did not re-form, and the pH of the liquid starter is now 3.7 in the fridge. (Yes, I got a pH meter, and that will add new adventures.) I found a Canadian Sourdough forum on Facebook, and people referred to a kind of deposit on the top of a starter called "Kahm yeast". It looks similar, and they say it's harmless. I prefer not to have it, so I'm being very careful with the liquid starter. It would be great to see a video on using a pH meter for sourdough - assessing the starter, tracking the fermentation process through to readiness for proofing, etc.

[@rickknowlan8949]

@@the_bread_code I got a pH meter, and remember seeing a video where you checked the pH at the end of fermentation, saying this is about as far as you want to go before the gluten starts to be dissolved. What is the pH you'd aim for at the end of fermentation? I also checked the pH of my liquid starter, and it looks really good at ~ 4.1 when it's also quite bubbly. What pH would you aim for in the levain just before mixing up the bread dough? Is it the same for 100% hydration starter and 500% hydration starter? Thanks!

[@jannicoboon3677]

My liquid starter does not stay under water, at some point it starts to float

[@Selyce_F]

You mentioned that if there’s bubbles the starter is active but does it grow? Can you give a rough estimate to how long it has to sit before it’s ready to use?

[@the_bread_code]

Try to not use too much of the starter (5-10%) then it will mature inside of the bread. I typically wait 5-15 hours after the feeding :-)

[@tamirazogui7222]

How to create these sample jar you're talking about with this liquid starter?

[@einmanaulfur]

It's not a sample of the starter but of the dough while it is fermenting. You'll find the method in many of his other videos. :-)

[@RovingPunster]

I havent had any luck getting questions answered to date, but i'll keep trying. QUESTION (open to anyone): When I read 'liquid starter' I immediately assumed it was alluding to a way to extract and use just the enzymatically and microbially active liquid from an existing 100% hydration starter, for 1 shot use in refined flour based products whose flavor and texture is not dominated by wholemeal ... kinda like way you might harvest beer trub and use it to ferment a different style. Is such a thing possible, and is there an already perfected way to go about it ? I ask because i'd like to be able do so something like utilize some autolysis in my existing stretched flat breads (similar to lebanese mountain bread, using AP Flour and kefir) without the flavor and texture being overwhelmed by the need to use homeground wholemeal flour ... and my motivation is not just flavor, but i cant grind and sieve my wheatberries fine enough to handle the same as 100+ mesh commercial flour. Mine's probably in the 40-60 mesh range, at best, which is too coarse to stretch thinly and evenly, even if I sieve out the bran. Suggestions welcome.

[@the_bread_code]

Hey Roving. Autolysis for your stretched flat breads is a good idea. I'd just let all sit without any leavening agents for a very long time. I am not sure if you use leavening agents, but add them later to have the flour enzymatically broken down by the protease and amylase. Starters can also be made with bread flour, no need for whole wheat flour. A 10% whole wheat flour in the mix will make sure the starter has enough nutrients though :-)

[@RovingPunster]

@@the_bread_code Thx for the encouraging reply. Although ive experienced AP Flour relaxing a bit after 30-60 mins (due to messing around a bit with pulled chinese la mian noodles), I wasnt sure if that was the same as protease reduction of the sort provided by a highly active starter, because I always thought standard highly refined AP Flour was either enzymatically dead, or close to it, esp when working with it from a standing stop. That, plus the microbes in kefir are lactose centric and dont really have much functional overlap with sourdough microbes. I'll just be patient and let it rest longer before adding the yeast. 👍

[@lavvy2585]

What do you do with the water, do you stir it back into the starter or throw it away?

[@the_bread_code]

Yep. Stir it back inside. Then when using it I use parts of the stirred mixture.

[@shanchiwang3123]

I tried your receipt and it was a total failure! Not sure if my starter/yeast was too young ( less than 1 month old as I am a beginner) or what. I used scale to carefully measure things up. But the overnight dough didn't enlarge at all with the liquid starter. I was so frustrated and didn't know what to do with it! Fortunately I kept another jar of regular starter in my fridge. But I didn't have the courage to try your receipt again, even though the yogurt taste sounds great.

[@simplybeautifulsourdough8920]

It may indeed be a young starter. Give it another couple of weeks of feeding and try again. It's just flour and water uou have to lose. 🙂

[@frederikroesch]

Hey Hendrik, did you until now compare a typical sourdough TA200 with a Lievito Madre TA150? The LM is known as a very mild wheat sourdough, although it‘s very stiff and low in hydration...

[@the_bread_code]

I need to try. I suspect that's the LM is typically also bathed in water. It should have a similar effect :-)

[@frederikroesch]

@@the_bread_code I did the experiment myself, see my last post on Instagram. The LM had much more ovenspring and tastewise it’s less acidic than the classic sourdough.

[@the_bread_code]

​@@frederikroesch It would be interesting to know whether it's in general less acidic, or whether it's perceived acidity as for instance you have less acetic acid :-D

[@frederikroesch]

@@the_bread_code I absolutely agree

[@lolam.9291]

So, how do you know when your liquid starter is ready since you cannot see it doubling in size???

[@the_bread_code]

That's the biggest problem. You will see bubbles coming to the top, like sparkling water. Other than that, there is not that much info that you can rely on. Around 5-10 hours after feeding, it's ready. To compensate for an overly ripe starter, I use less, 5-10% whereas normally with my regular starter I would use 20% based on the flour.

[@nopenope1]

wow so much eyeballing, mine fell out. 🙈 :P

[@JoshuaLam89]

Is it possible to convert liquid starter into kombucha? And how?

[@the_bread_code]

You can just use a little bit and then add it to your kombucha base :-)

[@denisvoltattorni6589]

Hi, ph when is mature? :) 3,9/4,0

[@einmanaulfur]

Do you use this liquid starter now exclusively or do you still have other 100% starters?

[@the_bread_code]

I use it exclusively now. I just find it way easier. But I soon plan to do another comparison with other starters 🤓

[@MrGiantgonads]

How long can you leave the starter from feeding to bake with? Is it ok if its over 24H old?

[@the_bread_code]

Yep. In that case, use a little less starter.

[@ucold]

@@the_bread_code Why use less when it is older?

[@Samammie]

How do you know when it is ready to bake with?

[@the_bread_code]

You will see a few bubbles coming to the top. That's the sign :-)

[@Samammie]

@@the_bread_code Thank you! I wish i could attach pictures here..you helped me bake my first awesome sourdough and I've made quite a few more since! Practicing and getting better every day..I really appreciate you!

[@Samammie]

@@the_bread_code So this is really weird..I have 2 Pets that I feed daily..one of them doesn't have much of a vinegar-y smell (more yogurty) at 100% consistency and gets less acidic the thicker it gets, but the other one is the complete opposite. I did an experiment where I converted them both to liquid starters..and BOTH of them changed..the vinegar-y starter was more yogurt-y and the yogurt-y starter was more vinegar-y..WHY IS THIS??!! so weird! Both were fed with 100% Organic Dark Rye. Any thoughts Mr. Engineer?

[@warmxinxin]

Hello thanks for all your videos, I watched them to start my sourdough experience since the second lock down in France. This liquid experiment looks so interesting that I started to make one this morning. However, it was in 2 layers in the beginning and turned to 3 layers when I went to the kitchen in the afternoon - from the top one layer of bubbling starter, then one layer of liquid, then a layer of starter at the bottom. Is it normal? If the principal is to prevent the starter from air, shall I throw away the top layer? Thanks in advance for your response

[@kenkiefer4686]

Similar thing happened to me. My top, third layer, smelled like it had a lot of acetic acid, so I threw it away. Cannot yet say how it works. I'm going to mix up a batch of Hendrick's Overnight dough later tomorrow using the liquid starter. So, I should know in three days or so how that bread tastes. I'll post a follow-up.

[@warmxinxin]

@@kenkiefer4686 i didn’t throw them away but with the 1:1:5 ratio the liquid starter doesn’t seem to be active. I tried to make breads with 10%, 20%,30% of this starter after more than 5 feedings, but it didn’t work well. Any of these 3 breads didn’t rise until 8/9 hours later🥲now I changed the feeding ratio to 1:5:20, the liquid starter seems to be more active, but it smells funny🥲🥲 still experimenting

[@kenkiefer4686]

@warmxinxin I now realize I was discarding the yeast by discarding that top layer of starter. The dough I tried making without the top yeast layer did not rise. Duh! The attraction of this liquid starter for me was for a less sour tasting bread. I think I am able to largely accomplish that by feeding my normal 100% hydration starter with only white bread flour, no whole grain flours. The white flour seems to yield a milder, less vinegary smelling starter. I'm giving up on Hendrik's liquid starter.

[@warmxinxin]

@@kenkiefer4686 haha same here I'm coming back to the 100% hydration starter. It was a nice exploration though:)

[@TWHwmn]

Can you make a liquid starter without an original starter?

[@the_bread_code]

Yep! But I recommend to go the regular route :-)

[@juanjuan5314]

How can you tell your starter is mature enough if the liquid doesn’t double in size?

[@the_bread_code]

That's the only disadvantage of this method. You normally know 4-8 hours later it is quite active. Then only use a little amount, like 10% for instance calculated based on the flour :-)

[@michaelplaysbass]

I've been feeding my starter along these lines for 3-4 days now; it definitely has started to smell differently! Hendrik, you were saying that this starter could be brought back to 100% hydration, right? I'm thinking that I can feed it this way generally, but then when I'm ready to bake, just use it to build a levain with a more standard hydration. Is this madness, or sensible, do you think?

[@the_bread_code]

Yup. That will work!

[@ekaram63]

This is all madness! LOL I want to try this also.

[@troutjunkie7330]

This is why I never measure anything when I feed my boi. Who ever said you have to go 50/50 (flour/water) with your starter. Some people have 75% hydration starters, some 400%. Does not matter. As long as you feed it every so often, it will ferment and be happy. Stop the madness with the scales.

[@troutjunkie7330]

There are starters that are 50% hydration (almost solid) that people feed it every 6 weeks and keep it in the fridge then just warm it up and add water the day before baking.

[@lolam.9291]

I completely agree!!

[@wholeNwon]

I've grown lots of starters over the decades, given it to others, baked with it, etc. Except at the very beginning, I have rarely measured anything. I've grown starter with whole wheat, rye, AP white flour, etc., tap water, distilled water with and without pineapple juice and probably some other ways I've forgotten. Conclusion: They all can work though some are more reliable than others. My guess is that failures are more a matter of chance than anything else. When I make sourdough bread, the only things I measure are flour and salt and these by volume. Sometimes I retard bacterial growth (and favor yeast) by refrigerating the dough. As to feeding starter, well, I do it when I think of it. The starter(s) are stored in the fridge but months can pass without feeding. With some food and water, usually revives very well at room temp. . I have lost refrigerated starter to mold. I attribute that to the retarded protection of bacterial metabolic activity, but who knows? Some of my loaves are just average but others are picture-perfect. Yes, I do photograph those so friends know what they will be receiving. Personally, I'm not especially fond of sourdough bread.

[@szaboaz]

Isn't this exactly the opposite what Karl de Smedt said about the lower acidity of stiffer starter? But why does a stiff starter needs to be submerged in water to reduce its acidity, if it's already reduced by the stiffness? I don't get it.

[@the_bread_code]

I think it matches with what he said. He said a liquid starter is more active in general. Submerging the starter is done by the Italians to reduce acidity. You also create anaerobic conditions. Now the stiffer starter could favor the yeast to bacteria ratio. However, I've been baking amazing bread using this method 🙏🏻.