Lithium RV Battery Charge Test - Can You Use a Lead Acid Converter/Charger?

[@smw397]

This is exactly what I wasted half my weekend trying to find, just to determine whether I need to upgrade my DC converter to swap my lead acid for LiFePO4. As a bonus, I already have nearly that exact model Power Wizard already in the camper I just bought (mine is PD9245C) only without the remote pendant. So I was especially happy when I learned I can order that part on Amazon for just $16. At least until I upgrade to solar I think this is all I need to maximize the value of my soon to be delivered 100AH LiFePO4. I can hit the override button to charge it up to 100% when I need it while traveling but leave it in default mode to maintain a safe and gentle 60 or 70% charge during storage.

[@davidtotten3042]

I have the exact same OEM charger setup in my travel trailer. I upgraded to a drop in replacement charger that progressive dynamics sells for it. I also pulled new wire to the batteries to replace the six gauge with two gauge. Actually, when I sized out the wire size, it was a bit over kill for my system, but gives me an upgrade path if I ever decided to add more batteries to my two battery 100 amp each system. It’s in its first season of use, but so far works great! I’m really impressed with the progressive dynamic product line. BTW, the charger is rated at 55 Amps, and usually gives me about 45 amps to the batteries.

[@z50king29]

What voltage are you getting that amperage at on 2awg at the battery terminals?

[@julieh3327]

This is an interesting video for us as we just changed out our converter/charger in our trailer because it went bad. We chose to go with a lithium battery and had a heck of a time finding a converter/charger that would fit in the space we had available! We bought a PowerMax PM3-55LK to use with our battery. I was able to set the voltage on 14.4V manually and then change from a fixed voltage to a 3 stage. It has worked well so far. We also installed a Victron BMV712 so that we could see what the battery was doing. Thanks for sharing!

[@DarkenFool]

You charge it in fixed voltage mode? The 3 stage only works at 14.6 then throttles voltage. Correct?

[@rrvallance]

I wish I had your electrical skills. I want to add a lithium battery to my little tear drop but can't find anyone to do the change out of my OEM charger. Thanks for the video.

[@RobertLowery]

I bought a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger to replace my WFCO a few years ago. Last year when I got a lithium battery, I contacted Progressive Dynamics about any issues I might have charging the battery with their unit. Turned out the model that I bought has a jumper switch that converts it to use a lithium profile for charging. I recommend anyone with one of their drop-in replacements check with Progressive Dynamics when switching to lithium batteries, it might just save you money, frustration, and most importantly, time.

[@LoveYourRV]

Cool, good to to know that there are some models out there that can do that.

[@danhitchcock5913]

I found some of the OEM converters to have a "FIXED" switch which I calibrated to 14.4 at the battery. I charge from 10% to 90% of my Lithiums in 1.2hrs. Mine is a 55 watt converter also.

[@DarkenFool]

You just leave it on fixed mode for lithium charging?

[@joecool509]

I bought a lithium replacement for my trailer OEM charge converter. Just under $200.

[@SteveOOOOO]

Lithium rocks I build my own battery pack 8yrs ago 800amp hr going strong yet. You will love it....

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

Hi Ray, I used to use the Wizard dongle in my original RV and that helped charge up my Lithiums. However, when I bought my current RV, I had them transfer my Lithiums and that charger had no method to adapt the charge cycles. I bought a new PD Lithium-based charger and a new Lithium-based solar charger; both now allow my 2 x 78 AH LifeBlue LiFePO4 batteries to fully charge. LifeBlue use BlueTooth technology with an app that allows you to see various parameters on the individual batteries. Cheers, Steve

[@LoveYourRV]

Nice!

[@pinewood2899]

WFCO is for world friendliest company, but their chargers are not high quality. I installed the Intellipower and made a huge difference, batteries last longer with it.

[@garyveitch4222]

Have you tried to adjust the OEM converter charger to output 14.2V rather than the standard 13.7V during adsorption charger. There's 3 pots on the OEM charger on the vertical board close to the fan. The Pot closest to the fan control the fan. The center Pot controls the bulk charge. The Pot furthest away from the fan controls the adsorption voltage. I adjusted my OEM converter and it charged my LIFEPO4 to 100%. I set the adsorption voltage to 14.2V which was maximum for the converter. It would be great to have the instructions for the OEM setup but I winged it anyway rather than purchasing a new Li converter. The 55A OEM converter charged at 36A with a battery

[@LoveYourRV]

No, didn't know that they have manual settings. Cool! thanks for the tip. I've since tested out the WFCO lithium/lead acid two in one charger and it worked for the most part outputting 14.4V and constant 50 amps or so, but had a little bit of flakiness now and then getting going at the high amp rate as it was an auto detect model www.loveyourrv.com/wfco-electronics-auto-detect-lithium-or-lead-acid-converter-charger/ Cheers, Ray

[@ke6bnl]

That was helpful, I have the same wizard and mppt epever solar. This was helpful

[@johnr5545]

Thanks god bless

[@LoveYourRV]

Visit www.loveyourrv.com/tag/lithium/ for more videos about my new Lion Energy batteries. *Get 15% off at Lion Energy with my affiliate link* - www.loveyourrv.com/UT1300 or use the discount code - LYRVUT1300

[@charlievickaryous9757]

Great video, quick question about the intellipower unit . I have a PD9270 and it has two DC neg and positive connections. Does this mean I can charge two different battery banks?

[@LoveYourRV]

Sure you could but keep in mind you are then basically paralleling the battery banks together unless you add cut-off switches to charge them separately. I think the reason they have two terminals is to allow for doubling up on the cables to effectively increase the overall wire gauge. For example if it was a long run to the battery bank a person may like to run two cables for positive and two for negative to reduce wire losses and voltage drop.

[@charlievickaryous9757]

@@LoveYourRV ahh.. great answer…. Thank you.

[@Yukonjackman1]

One more question,,,,,,,,,, Any information on the wire that is the battery charger we can move to a new circuit breaker when we are boondocking so no charge loop

[@LoveYourRV]

My trailer has a specific breaker for the OEM charger, its the very bottom one 15A. See this recent latest video for a clear look at it's hookup - www.loveyourrv.com/input-rv-ac-power-meter-install-mod-displays-total-ac-amperage-draw/

[@lonmar44]

So I can use two Chargers in my RV lead original where it is and put that one close to the batteries that's not going to hurt anyting

[@LoveYourRV]

I can't say 100% as chargers vary but can tell you my OEM WFCO and Intelipower don't have a problem, they just read the voltage of the battery bank and adjust their charge output based on that. Same when using the solar charger and the charge converter, they can both be on at the same time as well. Usually one of them becomes the lead charger and outputs the most amperage and the others output less since they see the voltage higher and start to back off the charging. It all depends on the charging algorithms of the various chargers and wire lengths between them and the battery bank. Generally though I only have my OEM charger turned on when I'm on shore power for an extended time. When off grid I'm charging via solar and/or a generator with the Intelipower near the battery bank. Cheers, Ray

[@lonmar44]

Okay thank you very much

[@boblewis2382]

Ray, good video but your Amazon LA IntelliPower link goes to a Progressive International product not Progressive Dyamins. See from PD's website: Progressive Dynamics Inc. converter chargers are being advertised on Amazon, Yahoo and Face Book under the name of Progressive International. This name is to imply that Progressive Dynamics is somehow involved with Progressive International and we are not. The real Progressive International sells RV kitchen products and not converter chargers. Progressive Dynamics and the real Progressive International only sell through authorized RV distribution companies and RV dealers.

[@LoveYourRV]

Oh crap! so they are not real? but fake knock offs? If that's a case I could do a video warning people of the Amazon fakes. Why doesn't Progressive Dynamics stop them? It's going to ruin a good name if people are getting a shoddy knock off.

[@boblewis2382]

I agreed...all they do is put the warning I cut & pasted on their website. IT'S even buried. I had to SEARCH on their site for "Progressive International" and read thru what it found.

[@LoveYourRV]

I see some listings on Amazon are also even using the name Progressive Dynamics. www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dynamics-PD9160ALV-Lithium-Center/dp/B07DP3X16F/ Guess the manufacture is just too lazy to ask Amazon to stop the reseller or maybe they like having lots of sales that they don't have to warranty. They work great, but if they are not going to honor warranties makes me leery to recommend them. I know lots of people like to shop Amazon for the free shipping and easy return. Cheers, Ray

[@boblewis2382]

@@LoveYourRV truly strange. If it's not sold by Progressive International & seller is RV supplier, then that makes me think OK ..PD factory item. Probably still safer upon receipt to call or email warranty serial # to PD and find out for sure do that customers can return immediately. I enjoy your channel!

[@LoveYourRV]

Thanks Bob. I think I'll contact PD this coming week and get some clarification so I can pass it along to my viewers.

[@aflarry]

Can the lithium be overcharged or damaged with constant 14.4v? I have this same PD charger. I wonder if it has the 14.4v internal jumper people mentioned?

[@LoveYourRV]

No, this is exactly in the voltage range most lithium batteries call for usually they say between 14.2V - 14.6V. The internal BMS ( Battery Management System) board will take care of reducing the charge current and eventually cutting it off completely once its fully charged. I haven't heard about an internal jumper for this model, I just use the Charge Wizard pendant button. Once it's put in 14.4V boost mode I think it has a timer of about 4 hours. Cheers, Ray

[@GaryBoyd02]

I am curious about something here. Your trailer is a 30 amp service. Should the main breaker not have popped when the charger was pushing in 40 amps.? Yet Keystone installed a 30 amp service and a 55 amp charger Confused..

[@LoveYourRV]

The 30 amp breaker is for incoming 120V AC power from the RV park. 55 amps is max DC rated amps at around 13.6 - 14.4 DC volts. The AC power input for the converter is around 1000 watts so uses roughly 8 - 9 AC amps when at max charging amps. They use a 15 amp breaker for the AC supply line to the converter. A converter charger converts AC to DC then uses the DC power to charge the batteries. Cheers, Ray

[@GaryBoyd02]

@@LoveYourRV Thanks Ray I knew I must be missing something.

[@questionmark4348]

FWIW I have the same Inteli-power charger and I noticed I burned out a couple of LED bulbs and the retailer said that the bulbs don't like the 14.4 volts and can overheat melting the solder, I'm interested to hear what you have to say about that.....Since hearing that I make sure all bulbs are off if I know my batteries are low before plugging into shore power. Any thoughts?

[@LoveYourRV]

Sounds like they are a cheaper bulb. Good LED lamps usually have built in voltage regulation circuits and metal heat sinks that can safely handle voltages between 8-30 VDC, but I guess by not having the regulator circuitry the price can stay lower. Most motorhome alternators put out around 14.4 VDC charge. With my previous big golf cart battery setup I ran a absorption voltage on my solar charge controller of 14.8 VDC and on cold days it would go even higher up to 15.2 VDC due to the temp sensor. Lead acid batteries need a higher voltage when charging at lower temps. Never had an issue with my LED bulbs or any other of the 12V items in the rig. They are usually designed to handle up to 16.5 VDC. On thing about the InteliPower PD9260 is it actually has a 4th stage that will perform a mini equalization if its been in float mode for a long time and raise the voltage to 14 VDC for short time. From the manual - "STORAGE MODE: When the converter senses that there has been no significant battery usage for 30 hours the output voltage is reduced to 13.2 volts DC for minimal water usage. When in storage mode the microprocessor automatically increases the output voltage to 14.4 volts DC for 15 minutes every 21 hours to help reduce sulfation of the battery plates." Cheers, Ray

[@questionmark4348]

@@LoveYourRV Thankyou BTW Do you have a link to a supplier of RV bulbs with built in regulators... I would be interested in replacing mine as they burn out with better bulbs.

[@LoveYourRV]

Many of them do, just look for the 8V - 30V spec listed. Here is a quality company and some info on bulbs m4products.com/lumens-and-quality/ Here is an example - m4products.com/921-9-3030-ww-warm-white-elite2-912-921-wedge-base/ for a common RV fixture like I have in my rig. I have ones called Starlights but they are crazy expensive.

[@questionmark4348]

@@LoveYourRV Thankyou!!

[@jumpin9399]

Ray I purchased two lithium batteries with a charge current max of 50 amps. If I get the 60 amp progressive that would be 30 amps per battery or am I wrong

[@LoveYourRV]

Yup, that should be the case

[@jumpin9399]

Thank you Ray. Great channel by the way.

[@MitchOfCanada]

Quick and dirty way is a 500 watt 12v-120v converter from vehicle and a house lithium charger to your battery. Run 120v extension cord close to battery and charge that way.

[@jimfrazee]

I saw this video 6 minutes after it was uploaded and coincidentally, I'm in the middle of replacing my WFCO 9865 charger with a Progressive Dynamics PD9160ALV to charge my two Battleborn Lithium batteries to 100% on my travel trailer. I haven't buttoned up the enclosure yet, because I wanted to turn on the A/C and test the system before I did. So far, it works perfectly. My solar panels would keep the charge at 100% during the day, but it would drop at night as you explained. My reason for the upgrade is that I want to start out on trips in the morning at 100% charge so that I can power my refrigerator on electricity from my inverter rather than on propane. I have a similar setup as yours, with the WFCO panel in the back, under the pantry, and I moved the batteries to under the bed in the front. I don't see a need to replace the wires as they are protected by three 25 A. fuses on the charger and the trailer is plugged into a 30 A. outlet 24/7 while I'm at home, so efficiency isn't a concern of mine. I enjoyed and appreciate this timely video as it confirmed my thinking on what I should do.

[@gbthecamper458]

Great post Ray. It shows the WFCO is definitely not the quality of the Progressive Industries unit. When 5 hours replaces days of charging an upgrade is in the offing.

[@shinigami117s8]

My battery setup was up front too. I put the cables onto insulated lugs. Then installed the lithium battery right behind the breaker box. Luckily the breaker box is not near anything heat related.

[@ffcolon2738]

Thanks, that is very good information. I have lead acid batteries and have been wanting to change over to lithium.

[@davidgrimm7733]

Another great instructional video, Ray. Although, next time you should wear a white lab coat, and muss your hair up, like a mad scientist. 🤪 keep up the great videos.

[@LoveYourRV]

haha, yeah. :)

[@scottleggejr]

I have the same brand house converter and I've found it tries to bleed off over-voltage for some reason. My house unit says "full" is 13.3 for lead acid, but the specs on the batteries I have is 13.7 and the house supply won't ever get it there. I've tested internal resistance on the lead-acid and they're within spec, but the solar never gets out of bulk when I have the converter hooked up. They fight one another? I'm about to replace my internal one and will check out the intelli-power you have or look for a more configurable one from someone like victron. Thanks for the technical content!

[@sgtwhiptail]

Maybe it WAS just poor planning in the RV industry to use a "single component". It seems like newer models are locating the electric panel and/or charger closer to the battery compartment.

[@lcwhite9996]

Im trying out 1 100ah LiTime before I order more. This one was dead yesterday morning and I had to go to town so I decided I would see how my PI PD 9260c 4 12:05 stage charger with charge wizard would perform. It took about 16 hrs but it charged it 100%.

[@LoveYourRV]

It should have took under 2 hours with manual boost engaged

[@corynardin]

Thanks for sharing this. I am thinking about building a lithium battery pack for my trailer. I would like to add solar eventually, but want to do things incrementally. I'm thinking I will need a charger at the same time I replace the battery though.

[@Pinky121971]

Really enjoyed your expertise on this Upgrades, However not to many of the Average Joe like me would DIY this without expert help. and there are not many RV tech out there who are knowledgeable. Thanks again.

[@s.williambishop3141]

WFCO also now offers a lithium charger replacement unit: WFCO WF-8950L2-MBA Replacement RV Power Converter Lithium-Ion Main Board. I replaced it in my WFCO unit. It seems to work pretty good. My 2 Battleborn batteries reach full charge now and also charge much quicker when hooked to shore power.

[@LoveYourRV]

Awesome, I hadn't heard that before thanks for the heads up.

[@bobcole3852]

Does it put out 50 amps?

[@metaxaanabeer]

So I'm sitting here with a piece of blueberry pie from the pie lady in Union Bay...and all I understand is blueberry pie is wonderful. I appreciate you, Ray...a lot. But I'll stick with my bone simple electrical stuff in my Teardrop and blueberry pie.

[@SteveOOOOO]

Lol I like my blueberry pie to but once your on board factory charger goes south it will burn you blueberry pie and get a whole different attitude when you lose your blueberry pie....

[@Yukonjackman1]

Great information thank you I have been wondering this subject.

[@SteveOOOOO]

My friend smart move getting rid of your factory charger. But I always wondered why you had it set up the way you did in the past when in fact if you took the power leads off the fuse panel that was supplying your in-house charger and ran 12 gauge wire to the front of your fifth wheel and put an outlet there then plug in your Inteli power charger you will have less issue... I spliced the pendant using cat6 wire and ran my push button pendant into my control panel which allows me to activate boost mode from within the camper... now when I need to fire my generator I use the regular RV cord which Powers up the whole camper and charges the batteries as needed

[@LoveYourRV]

Because I'm on full hookups 8 months a year and decided to let the OEM charger wear out float charging 24/7 and save the wear and tear on my Intelipower. I'm also not getting rid of the OEM charger, because as luck would have it floats my lithium battery bank as around 58% which is perfect to extend the battery life. Kinda like they are in storage. Lithium held at 100% charge wear out faster. If I ever want to use my Intelipower on shore power, it's easy to just plug it into an outlet via an extension cord, there is an outlet closeby on my water closet bay or the power pedestal. For boondocking I found I only use it about 30 yours during the 4 months, so not a big deal to push the button beside the battery. Cheers, Ray

[@Herestobetterdays]

Dumb question. What Solar controller do you recommend for the Safari UT 1300? I’ve got two on my wolfpup trailer and the gopower 30 lithium controller seems to never get them charged up like they should. I’ve got 250 watts of solar panels on top; and this model of trailer has a 12 v fridge versus a propane so I need it to recharge as much as possible during the day for hot summer camping trips boon docking. I’m also looking to replace my charge controller like you did in another video to one that has a lipo4 switch or mode to charge them better off a generator when we need to. Thanks, Brian

[@LoveYourRV]

Here are the solar controllers I've been using the last 5 months with good success - www.loveyourrv.com/srne-40-amp-mppt-solar-charger-features-install-demo/ They are made by a company called SRNE, relatively inexpensive and have a lithium setting or can be user customized. Cheers, Ray

[@SkyGizmmo]

Perfect answer to a change over in old lead acid. Great insight into a good around and preservation of Lithium Iron phosphate. So it seems your solution is multi uses. In a park on shore power through standard old lead acid charger 12 volt converter it then goes into a “no harm” preservation float mode? The caveat is though I’m off grid or power out situation the LIons would not be topped off unless by solar or generator or alternate AC source via the device with bypass algorithm switch? Do you then isolate or switch /disconnect the old lead acid charge leads? Brilliant video regardless truly helped me understand. Thanx

[@LoveYourRV]

This video shows how I typically recharge off grid with a second converter charger located beside the battery bank www.loveyourrv.com/2-year-update-safari-ut1300-lithium-batteries-and-energizer-gas-generator/ Last winter I installed an auto detect lithium/lead charger from WFCO www.loveyourrv.com/wfco-electronics-auto-detect-lithium-or-lead-acid-converter-charger/ it seems to work for the most part. Cheers, Ray

[@augiemattheiss]

Another excellent look at issues RV'ers face.... maybe soon all new RV converters will have a Li mode charge circuit? Or am I being naive? when will PVC or marine grade plywood be used in floors of RVs? When will dangerous tires be flushed out of the market? "Oh!"... wait a minute, when we all learn enough to ask critical questions before a sale! ;-)

[@LoveYourRV]

They are really good at keeping up with shiny bells and whistles but not so fast with the functional guts of the RV. Guess that's what sells. :)

[@fratermus5502]

IMO, if you're sitting on pedestal power for weeks the LFP would be better off at 59% than 100%.

[@LoveYourRV]

You bet. We spent all last winter on shore power so I left the batteries charging via the OEM converter and they sat at about 52% the whole time. Cheers, Ray

[@tedelder703]

Thanks just what I was looking for 👍👍

[@latergator3367]

Thanks Ray. I am going to swap over to lithium and need to upgrade my OEM WFCO. So I always start with Ray first ! Clear and concise explanations !

[@LoveYourRV]

Thanks. Funny enough WFCO has recently contacted me and is currently sending a new model they have just released for me to test out. It has a new feature called Auto-Detect. Its supposed to automatically detect what kind of battery type you have and change the charging profile. It works with lithium. I'm going to swap out my 11 year old WFCO OEM with it and see how it performs. Should be interesting. wfcoelectronics.com/auto-detect/

[@rickwheeler7480]

thank you great video. Battle Born and Intellipower said the same thing. I can put in lithium and override to boost mode, Now just have to save up the 2grand for the batteries. thanks again great video answered all my questions

[@LoveYourRV]

Glad I could help

[@Taximan90]

Thanks for the video Ray.. that helps me make a decision on my shuttle conversion. I believe I told you sometime back that I bought an Intellipower with the charge wizard pendant, ( I think it is the 45 watt model ) based on your recommendations aka review. I have been trying to decide whether I needed to get a charger/converter for my power center as it does not have one and was thinking I could probably just use the Intellipower unit in its place to power the dc side of the power center. Sounds like I can and be safe.. what do you think? Am I thinking correctly?

[@LoveYourRV]

Yes, that makes sense to me, they are designed to run an RV's 12 Volt circuits as well as charger the batteries.

[@1robertmkelly]

Thanks for demonstrating the drawbacks of using an old lead-acid battery charger on Lithium. I understand why it has an issue with Lithium so much better after this video. I added an Iota charger and a small 1000 watt generator for a backup for my solar system.

[@LoveYourRV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jon.landry47]

Informative, as usual. Thanks.

[@garthhart6642]

Great video as usual. Thanks Ray

[@bt4b4]

I have a question on charge a lithium SOK battery. I have the 206amphr SOK and 220 watts of solar going into it through a Renogy Rover. Even after I set my parameters correctly, I can only charge up to 13.3 volts. ? (It’s new and never been discharged yet. ). SOK says I need double the solar to push it the last part. Is this correct in your opinion ? Thanks for all the help !

[@LoveYourRV]

The first thought for me is when lithium batteries are shipped they are shipped at between 40-60% charge, some kind of shipping rule to not ship them fully charged. So maybe you have yet to be able to get to full charge with so little solar power feeding it. Is the Rover model you have set to lithium mode 14.4V? if so it should be able to fully charge the battery but keep in mind it will take a while if the battery is low, 200 watts of solar only puts out about 10-12 amps max, and that would be with clear sky and overhead sun. Say you were charging with a constant 10 amps of solar while not using anything from the battery to power stuff, it would take slightly over 20 hours to fully charge from dead. A rough rule of thumb is to have around 100W solar power per 100AH battery but that is from lead-acid days which a person only uses 50% of the capacity. Your lithium 208AH is equivalent in capacity to 4 lead-acid batteries, so 400 watts would be better. I'd even recommend more if a person was camping in the winter with lower sun angles and shorter days or where there are a lot of cloudy days. Also, you'll only see over 14V right at the end of the charging cycle after the charge is over, and say it's the night the batteries will show about 13.3V, that's the normal voltage for them.

[@bt4b4]

@@LoveYourRV thank you for all your insights. The charger is set correctly, just can’t push the battery past 13.3 volts. The charger does say 100%. Love all your videos ! Peacefrom510 .

[@standingmannequin7911]

@@LoveYourRV very helpful insight. Thank you.

[@toddramsay977]

How did you know you inverter was set correctly? Did you see the levels were correct?

[@LoveYourRV]

I wasn't using an inverter, I guess you mean converter/charger. I was able to test the converter/charger output using my multimeter for voltage and the small clamp-on amp meter for amperage. Also, I used my Trimetric battery system monitor to measure the voltage and amperage at the battery bank. The Intelipower converter/charger has automatic smart 4 stage charging based on voltage/amperage sensing, but I can override that with the manual charge wizard pendant. Hold switch down for a few seconds puts it into manual boost mode outputting constant 14.4VDC.

[@doughasson2073]

Very interesting Ray, thanks.

[@wとも-y7m]

5:56 "What happens if you simply upgrade to Lithium Battery (without converter update.)?" I was looking for that information and finally found it here. Thank YOU!!

[@timf6916]

Nice, good information

[@gmr228]

What float charger do you recommend for deep cycle battery?

[@LoveYourRV]

I've used WFCO, IOTA and Progressive Industries and I think I like the PI one best. They work best if located close to the battery as voltage drop on the long cable lines can through them off and slow the charge time. Cheers, Ray

[@kevincollins1812]

Does the PD9260 drop out of manual boost mode at some point, or do you have to use the pendant to switch it back?

[@LoveYourRV]

Someone said it does after about 4 hours, I haven't seen it happen though so can't confirm. Usually I'm using it for an hour or two of generator run time.

[@kevincollins1812]

Thanks for doing the test. I have the same converter that was installed by the manufacturer. It is mounted at the back of my fifth wheel as well and wont output anywhere near 60 amps. I just bought a pendant for it. Based on your test, it looks like manual boost mode will help.

[@marketshare5273]

Great information you answered a lot of questions. 👊👍😎

[@LoveYourRV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@davidmcconnell8690]

:-)))) :-))))

[@ScottDLR]

The problem occurs when the converter goes into its desulphate mode, which can kill the BMS in our lithium batteries.

[@LoveYourRV]

Why would it kill the BMS? They pretty well all have high voltage protection. The BMS would simply switch off charging to the lithium cells. That's one of its jobs as a BMS.

[@ScottDLR]

@@LoveYourRV The BMS will be subjected to rhythmic high voltage spikes and it isn't designed to deal with them. There's generally quite a difference in dealing with just high voltage and high frequency spikes.

[@LoveYourRV]

Interesting, I wonder if some types of BMS boards handle it better than others. I have used and tested about a dozen different brand LiFePO drop-in replacement RV batteries and charged them with different lead acid chargers, WFCO, Progressive's Dynamics, and IOTA, with no issues. Once they see a voltage of about 14.6V, they shut off charging. I haven't noticed any of the battery manuals warnings of this issue. You'd think if they started seeing many warranty claims with BMS destroyed, they would clue in. I will send some emails to ask their engineers and see what they say. I wonder if this has been an issue with other use case Li batteries, and now it's something people are told to worry about with RV drop-ins. Solar controllers, especially the PWM type, also use rhythmic pulses to charge, and often voltages get pretty high near the end of the charge. I used a PWM type for a couple years with my Lion Energy lithium and had no problems. Cheers, Ray

[@bendixon2898]

Victron for me

[@rickbeyer6633]

I just ordered two of the UT1300 batteries from Costco. I will need a new charge controller (I have a Tracer MPPT). I have a single 325W panel. Do you have a recommendation for the charge controller I should purchase and do you have an affiliate link? Thanks!

[@LoveYourRV]

You mean a solar charger controller? or a converter/charger?

[@rickbeyer6633]

@@LoveYourRV Solar charge controller to replace my 4 yr old Tracer MPPT which I don't think is programmable. Sorry to ask the question in the wrong video, but because you mention the Costco UT1300 sale I asked here.

[@LoveYourRV]

For MPPT I think both Renogy and Victron have some decent controllers that are lithium ready. Morningstar makes some good ones as well but they are a little harder to program, usually, you have to get a laptop and custom program them. If you don't plan to expand much from the 325 watts then a 30 amp controller should be plenty.

[@rickbeyer6633]

@@LoveYourRV do you have an affiliate link for either the Victron or Renogy?

[@LoveYourRV]

Not for the company websites, just if you buy on Amazon. If you click my Amazon page - www.amazon.com/shop/loveyourrv and then search and buy during the session I think I get credit. Thanks, Ray

[@z50king29]

Thanks for the great info! Does your new converter allow you to choose between lead and lithium?

[@LoveYourRV]

No, its a lead acid converter but happens to have an add-on manual boost functions that works well for lithium batteries since it manually boosts the charging voltage to 14.4V which is good for charging lithium.

[@z50king29]

@@LoveYourRV I have seen that one. I understand now. Thanks

[@LoveYourRV]

I've recently been contacted by WFCO that makes many of the OEM chargers. They have a new converter charger model out that is supposed to auto detect whether an RV has lithium or lead acid and adjust the charging. They may send me one so I can test it out. wfcoelectronics.com/auto-detect/ Cheers, Ray

[@z50king29]

@@LoveYourRV very interesting, thanks. I didn't see that when I was on their site last night

[@billfisher6708]

Very interesting video, Ray. Thanks.

[@LoveYourRV]

Very welcome

[@donowens5883]

Not good

[@StringerNews1]

One can use _some_ types of lead-acid battery chargers to charge lithium batteries, but if you have to ask, you're not one of these people. Think of it this way: if you've just invested a few thousand dollars in a battery system that could last the rest of your life if you treat it right, skimping on the charging components is a false economy that could waste all of the advantages of lithium. I've designed and administered battery power systems as small as a news van to an entire TV station and data center. Many of these used lead acid batteries as a buffer between the rectified DC power supply and the load, and to keep the battery topped off. Lithium batteries don't need constant topping off because they have low self-discharge, and trying to use them like that isn't a good idea. I'm not an RVer, but from what I've read, the DC power supply powered by shore power is both the charging source for the old lead-acid batteries and provides some special function for the absorption refrigerator. In addition it may have a desulfation cycle. None of this is compatible with lithium! My advice is to leave your old shore power supply in place as a DC source, but to have a qualified electrical technician install an automatic transfer switch to isolate the lithium battery from the DC bus when shore power is supplied. This will allow the existing systems to continue working normally with shore power, and then a lithium charger suitable for your specific kind of lithium battery can then charge the battery in isolation. If you have multiple battery units, you would charge them in bulk, and the time to ask if you can wire them in series or parallel, and how many is before you buy them. If you try to hook up multiple battery units in a way that the BMS doesn't support, you'll likely have problems with one or more BMS units going into protection mode. Although _one_ can be a sorta drop-in replacement for one 12V lead acid battery, all bets are off when connecting multiples. Because lithium cells have low self-discharge, there's no float charge needed. When they're charged (and the charger turns off) you can unplug and stow it. As long as the load is disconnected, the battery will be good to go for months after charging. One thing you might want to be mindful of is storage. If I store a vehicle for any amount of time, I take out all the batteries and store them indoors. One thing I do at work is prepare lithium batteries for air travel by discharging them to 50% capacity, which is a TSA requirement for traveling with high-capacity lithium ion batteries. Since I've started using lithium iron phosphate batteries, I've found that lithium cells of all types live longer the closer they're kept to a 50% charge. You don't need to be exact about this, if you let your RV or toy hauler battery run down to less than 90% before putting it away for the winter (or summer as the case may be), you can add hundreds of cycles to those batteries. They also benefit from being kept cool, but above freezing.

[@stanjuan1178]

I have questions. Preamble: I "Simply" wanted to replace my two lead acid batteries with two lithium batteries. I knew I would have to change My Converter/Charger and that was "Not a problem". Only, there is nothing simple about this process and there very much ARE problems. First, I purchased two renogy 200watt solar suitcases and a renogy 40amp mppt charge controller. My batteries, (brand spanking new interstate 6 volt "EXTREME" GC batteries) just aren't working for me. In fact, they seem to be actually worse than the two 12v interstate lead acid batteries they replaced. SO I decided i would go with 2 renogy 100ah lithium smart batteries. But,,,,,, renogy is adamant that the max charging voltage is 14.4v and thus far all of the converter/charges for lithium batteries charge at 14.6v. Renogy says this is right out. So I was looking at putting in a maxpower converter/charger where you can set the constant voltage mode for 14.4v. But this never ever shuts off. It's constant voltage mode obviously. Now the guy at MaxPower told me that the batteries onboard bms should shut the charge current completely off when it hits a set limit. But he said you can't always trust the battery, and also generally speaking, its not desierable to leave the batteries connected to a constant voltage for long periods of time. So he suggested putting in a cut of switch between the battery an charger so that I can disconnect the batteries during long periods of being plugged into shore power and just let the MaxPower power the DC circuits. Well, that sounds all well and good, until I saw this video. As it turns out, I have the same PD charger you have in this video. Ok, mine is 70 amp, but other than that its the same. so here is my question. When you place the the charger into boost mode manually, how long will the charger remain in boost mode for? The literature says that once you release the button, the charger will stay in what ever mode you left it in until it senses a charge state change at which time it will automatically return to,,,,, well,,,, auto mode. But my assumption is that the charger is set up to sense voltages from the perspective of a lead acid battery, not a lithium battery. Will the charger simply kick out of boot mode relatively quickly after you place it in boot mode? Or is there a fixed time that the charger remains in the manual override mode you left it in? We camp primarily in DEC camp ground where there is never any power hookups. Therefore we are primarily bound to running a generator 5 hours a day to keep the batteries up. Id say 10% comes from solar, 90% comes from generator. Employing a cut off switch, if the charger would stay in boost mode long enough, I could simply cut the batteries in and out as needed and let the converter charger run the DC circuits while the generator is running (or when we are plugged into to shore power at the house). I could use the manual button to charge the batteries when needed. But thats all predicated on weather or not the charger is going to play nice or not. Specifically I mean, kicking out of boot mode 10 min after I put it into manually.

[@LoveYourRV]

I'll check the manual but I believe the manual boost mode on the PD9260 lasts for 4 hours and that jives with my experience with it. I've also recently install and tested a WFCO converter that does both LA and LI. You may be interested in those videos www.loveyourrv.com/wfco-electronics-auto-detect-lithium-or-lead-acid-converter-charger/

[@stanjuan1178]

@@LoveYourRV I looked at the link you posted and the WFCO runs into the same issue as every other Converter Charger I've looked at in that it's set to charge at 14.6V for Lithium. Renogy is insisting that 14.4V is the max charging voltage for their batteries. That's why I was looking at the MaxPower. But the boost mode on the PD9270V I have is set for 14.4V. So if it will stay in that mode for four hours as you suggest, it shouldn't be a problem to use it to charge the Renogy batteries. Ya know, I was looking through the literature available for the PD pendent and it says the following specifically for PD9200 series converter/charger: "Manual control and monitoring while charging Lead Acid / AGM batteries. Also used to manually charge Lithium by pressing the Button Monthly or when charge is needed." This is (as far as I can find) the only mention that I can find that suggests that the 9200 series COULD potentially charge lithium batteries. This despite COUNTLESS youtube videos, reviews and forum posts stating specifically that the PD9200 is ONLY for LA (and similar) batteries and can harm lithium batteries. While PD doesn't give any specific information that I can find concerning how one might effectively use a 9200 series to charge a lithium battery, they went out of their way to toss out that small detail I posted above. I don't understand why information isn't more clear. I mean to say, I feel like companies are doing this on purpose. My only other concern is that I have the 70amp model and while my LA batteries never got anywhere close to that kind of current draw for charging, the Renogy batts absolutely could draw that much. And I believe my 2019 Grand Design Imagine 2150RB uses 8AWG wire from the converter/charger to the batteries. This (OF COURSE) is no where near heavy enough. I may end up having to spend time and money changing that wire out. I don't care about the cost, but running that new wire is going to be a MAJOR PITA!

[@LoveYourRV]

One thing you should keep in mind is there will be a voltage drop on the charge line. The longer and the smaller the gauge the lower the voltage at the battery bank. For example, when I'm charging my lithium batteries using the WFCO, the charge voltage at the WFCO converter output might be 14.6V but about 20 feet of OEM 6 gauge cable plus the frame ground return will knock that down quite a bit due to conductor resistance so the actual voltage level the batteries see will be less, maybe about 14V if lucky, maybe even less, I haven't measured it exactly. So if you are concerned about the Renogy 14.4V level just add more wire between the two.

[@LoveYourRV]

Also its interesting that Renogy makes a 20A AC-TO-DC LFP PORTABLE BATTERY CHARGER that puts out 14.6V renogy.com/20a-ac-to-dc-lfp-portable-battery-charger/ hmmmm...