Club vs. Club Thermopylae Wargame

Today on Little Wars TV, historian Myke Cole joins us to discuss one of the most famous (and misunderstood) battles of the ancient Greek world--the Battle of Thermopylae. In popular history, it's known as the last stand of King Leonidas and his 300 Spartans, but Thermopylae is much more complicated than that. After talking to Myke Cole, three guys from our wargaming club travel to challenge Mark's Game Room for an epic, club versus club showdown. We're wargaming the land and naval battle simultaneously to decide the fate of Western Civilization! Will Xerxes find a way to punch through the Greek position or can the Greeks pull off another heroic stand?
This episode is sponsored by our friends at Diratia Productions, 3D sculptors of awesome historical miniatures in multiple scales and eras of history. For a limited time they're offering 10% off their STL files at MyMiniFactory with the promo code "LittleWarsTV". They have ancient Greek and Persian miniatures for you next Greco-Persian wargame:
www.myminifact...
Don't have a resin printer at home? No problem! You can also get their miniatures printed for you. We ordered figures from this service and they arrived in nicely packaged plastic blisters:
only-games.co/...
The wargame in today's video was played using Osprey's "Men of Bronze" rules and Brian DeWitt's fast-play "Greek Fleets at Sea." Brian told us that you can email him directly if you'd like a copy. He's selling them for $5 and his email is [e-mail].
We'll be talking more about "Men of Bronze" in a future video here on our channel. You can visit our official website and look under the Free Stuff section for our heavily-revised version of the QRS. It's 100% free at www.LittleWarsT....
Finally, a huge THANK YOU to the guys at Mark's Game Room for hosting us, filming the game, and also doing the editing! They did an awesome job and you should check out their new channel for more miniature wargaming goodness.

[@twistedblast5253]

The sacrifice of the 700 poor Thespians goes unsung once again😢 All jokes aside though this was a great wargame, really cool to have both engagements going on simultaneously. I also loved the slightly cheesy narration

[@Shenaldrac]

I don't know what a bunch of theater majors would have done to help, but they do deserve to be remembered. /joke

[@markgrehan3726]

The mix of narration and gaming is really effective and overall that's one hell of a setup and a bunch of awesome terrain and models. Really enjoyed this as it was a blast to watch.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Thanks, Mark! Another Mark (of Mark's Game Room) gets the credit for editing this video! Really enjoyed the graphic novel tip of the hat.

[@MarksGameRoom]

Thanks Mark! This was a tricky video to put together but it was worth the effort!

[@troydodson9641]

​@@MarksGameRoomYoooo, Mark!

[@rodrigoadivinha6994]

its funny how many times mark has been said in response to this commentary

[@markgrehan3726]

​@@rodrigoadivinha6994 Shhh, The first rule of Marks Club is: you do not talk about Marks Club. The second rule of Marks Club is: you DO NOT talk about Marks Club!

[@DylanSwayneHughes]

Love the addition of the 28mm figures to add close ups

[@MarksGameRoom]

Thanks! I have been wanting to try mixing scales for awhile...the use of the frames made it possible!

[@Greg-mo7yd]

That was awesome! You could have added some rocking chair creaking sounds when the ships collide.

[@michaelweir9666]

With Greece's incremental VPs it really felt like the whole time that Little Wars was fighting an uphill battle (literally) Great episode, guys. The battle map was absolutely stellar!

[@sandtable8091]

Standing in the pass of Thermopylae you realise how small the battlefield was. Although the sea has receded it must have been reasonably deep immediately off the ledge of the pass. The smell of sulphur from the hot spring is pretty ripe! Still, on the mound of the last stand (presumably near enough) my mate Simon slipped and slid unceremoniously to the foot. Ever since we have introduced him as Simonides who fell at Thermopylae.

[@MichaelCorryFilms]

Well now that the terrain is built you can the 2nd battle of Thermopylae and the 3rd one too!

[@markdesmarais2006]

This is the best wargaming video I’ve ever watched. Love the editing and the focus on storytelling rather than getting bogged down in rules. And the narration, music, and sound effects took it over the top.

[@LittleWarsTV]

High praise Mark! We’ve done a lot of games so happy to hear you loved this one!

[@Carl-MGR]

Plus the handsomest Greek admiral

[@rustybuttshoe6312]

I love that marine mechanic, making a roll of 11-12 to land, and 9-10 for them to sink It seems much more exciting that way

[@markdesmarais2006]

I had no idea Herotodus looked so much like a Mall Santa

[@creekroadfactorium8758]

I really should wait with posting a comment to get the 300th, but here we are... Well done as usual guys!

[@LittleWarsTV]

Hah! Well SOMEONE will have that honor!

[@Sebman_Social]

this looks really impressive

[@malusignatius]

"That some call the Father of History" Every time I hear that I can't help but hear Herodotus' other moniker, namely 'The Father of Lies'.

[@Carl-MGR]

Yes! Plutarch even wrote an ancient diss track about him “On the Malice of Herodotus”

[@schwabrichard9829]

That was a truly epic event! Two battles for the price of one!!!! What a value, what fun!

[@michaelgriffin135]

Great report. I think the club vs club format was great. Keep up the great work guys. 👍

[@LittleWarsTV]

Thanks! We are very interested in the club challenge concept moving forward!

[@tabletop.will.phillips]

This was a great video! Loved bringing in a historian to provide context, and Myke Cole is a cool guy.

[@walterblock5082]

Ancient battles are my favorite period to play especially at the 6mm level.

[@chesterstevenson]

This is an incredibly engaging storytelling method for AARs. They should all be like this. I might even have to watch this a few times.

[@Ben1159a]

Oh my gosh... Club vs Club!! Heck yeah, let the games begin!!

[@ericfarrington366]

So glad to see you guys using Men of Bronze in such an epic game and great looking set of battles! Very inspiring.

[@KrisV385]

This was ridiculously good! and Myka Cole on top it!! So good!!

[@Albert_1_of_Belgium]

When I saw Herodotus I thought it was Christmas for a second and rushed to check the date 😂😅

[@LittleWarsTV]

Herodotus is the real star of this episode! That beard! So epic.

[@jonfouracre1254]

Another great episode guys. Kudos for getting Father Christmas to narate! 😉👍

[@kirkyoung4147]

Loved the format, would welcome more of these vids!

[@LittleWarsTV]

Thanks! Would love to do more club v club style events!

[@WargamesTonight]

Entertaining! I enjoyed the use of storyboard which I assume was inspired by the original graphic novel that spawned the movie 300. Also some nice narration and I even learned a bit about the historical battle. Thanks guys for a fine video!

[@hrzhrz1]

love the use of bigger miniatures for detail shots!

[@ItsDrMcQuack]

What a fantastic episode! Wonderful narration and an excitingly close-fought game. Wonderful!

[@waltleach8880]

Great Video. Love how you use the 28mm for closeups, the special blood effects and sound effects if ramming, the terrain was awesome along with the narration by Herodotus. It looked like everybody was having fun and to see Mark urging the Greeks on

[@PataSwe]

Really epic and entertaining! Mark's camera setup is great too :)

[@alexandercain8904]

Thank you Herodotus, your oration was exquisite! Please accept this comment as a sacrifice to the god of algorithms!

[@LittleWarsTV]

Sacrifice to the cruel gods of KZbin accepted! Thank you Alexander!

[@paceaz2]

Loved this campaign. I am loving Napolionics at the moment so this was probably my favourite! Thanks everyone.

[@jordancrump7518]

So glad to see Myke Cole on your channel again-such an outstanding chap full of amazing insights!

[@LittleWarsTV]

He’s such a cool dude to talk to. Great stories and very well spoken! His book The Bronze Lie is worth the read. Engaging writing, even if I didn’t always agree with every theory.

[@luiscamejo2379]

Awesome. You guys ever resurrecting your raven feast series?

[@LittleWarsTV]

Hoping to, yes! Both for Dark Ages, but also to expand the core system into other eras. That's a longer-term project, though.

[@Darek_B52]

I think it's worth noting two things 1 300 is a comic book adaptation first. 2 Rise of an Empire did expand the scope. It did take place before, during, and after the events of 300.

[@giorgioclavelli1757]

Epic battle!!! And well portrait the drama. I was nearly crying at the end of the movie...

[@jeromekammerer4733]

Nice, I've been waiting for this ^^

[@LittleWarsTV]

Us too! We played this over the summer at Mark's Game Room in Virginia. It was a blast!

[@bugfighter5949]

No way I can't believe you got Herodotus to narrate this :O

[@botulf680]

A pleasure to watch. Thankyou!

[@wylde_hunter]

Great battle. I love this style of post.

[@sumerandaccad]

it goes to show a large game doesn't need a mass of figures. Superbly thought out and presented.

[@YOUPIMatin123]

Ok, herodotus got me by surprise, I laughed so hard hah

[@Jason_Kunkel]

That wasn't how I was expecting it to go, but that was awesome!

[@troydodson9641]

Myke Cole! We Love You! You guys are such a spectacular group, I show the kids the fun tabletop bits, and they care enough to pay attention and ask questions into the context of the epic battles portrayed. Thank you

[@Fallout3131]

This was awesome!

[@j.b.macadam6516]

Very cool, guys! Thanks!

[@markmatzeder6208]

Those models are beautiful. This was a fun watch

[@Vairosaen]

amazing game- you guys have really outdone yourselves with this one!

[@mariusweber4990]

This format is fantastic. Great work!

[@DreadPyriteBob]

That was a lot of fun! I would love to see more of these!

[@Uikira]

loved it!!! great job. I have been debating on 6mm and this very era. you guys sealed the deal. 6mm here I come

[@thundershirt1]

Kudos to the new production team!

[@RubberToeYT]

Fantastic video as always, really enjoyed

[@MrModernKetchup]

i love this channel and marks so much. i’m too excited to watch em come out. love how many different eras you guys do and the amazing terrain building. i would love to see more about the painting and terrain! the roman campaign map was stunning yet so simple

[@LittleWarsTV]

Thanks! We game lots of eras of history and it’s fun to showcase how broad historical wargaming is.

[@MrGeneralPB]

who to challenge next? all of them... ALL OF THEM!!!

[@LittleWarsTV]

THIS. IS. PERSIA!!!!!

[@rcspaintservice]

Best video so far. Loved the cartoonish look of it. Great game too!

[@haroldmorgan7381]

BIC Yellow Plastic Razor Cover Galleys - 1st cut a "ship-shape" from "gray cardboard" (found on tablet backs)about 2" long pointed in bow (ram) and rounded at stern then glue the yellow plastic razor cover (flat side down) then cut two rectangle gray cardboard for the "oars" and glue onto ship each side - paint whole ships White (Roman) or Gray (Greek) then when dry draw lines (oars) on the oar pieces ! 3-Size-Of-Ships : Small galley (used mainly for ramming) - use razor knife to cut off BOTH catapult battle-towers / Medium galley - only cut ONE catapult battle-tower off / Large galley - don't cut any catapult battle-tower ! Catapults: Each catapult battle-tower may fire a "rock" (hit reduces crew by 1) OR a "Greek fire-pot" (hit starts a FIRE - each ship catapult gets 1 fire-pot/battle) every other turn (need to reload) ! Galley ships may be "dressed-up" with "paper-card" white sails OR Medium & Large galleys could be made "taller" with "extra layers" of ship-shape gray cardboard - just "file" the ship-shapes "smooth" ! We play the "Ben Hur movie" battle with about 15 ships/side and an island chain (about 5 green foam) spread out between the sides so there are "choices" which gaps to go thru and with how many ships - remember you can only RAM Broadsides (NOT sterns & Bows) - Boarding MELEES can grapple/ungrapple too if close enough ? :-)

[@haroldmorgan7381]

As usual you guys "INSPIRE" the rest of us wargamers with your video battle topics ! The question is "can we out here in mid-USA do the same type battles in some simple fashion (easier/cheaper on a weekly basis) ? The land battles - about a month back we were doing Kadesh with archers, spearmen, Imperial Guards, and even Chariots using the published WARHAMMER Historical Ancients rules ! The sea naval battles - we too have a blue-hexed sheet for the table and use a set of Roman/Greek naval ramming galleys rules called "Row well 41 and live" from the Ben Hur movie battle that includes ramming, boarding melees, and catapults with Greek-fire-pots to start fires ! For galley ships we use the galleys out of MB Conquest of the Empire ( later Eagle Games) and fairly good galleys can be made from BIC razor covers and card-stock ( those yellow plastic pieces) ! :-)

[@paradox7358]

Some impressive looking miniatures.

[@Carl-MGR]

Thanks! I believe Josh painted the 6mm Greeks and Persians, Matt (and his sister!) and I did the ships, and the “close-up” 28mm figures are mine!

[@andrewtodd5919]

Admiral Greg almost carried the day. If only Xerxes had the gold to buy the services of Miles of Macedon lol. Fun times only thing Persians could have done differently was main assault right off. Well played

[@sechs6]

This is why I subscribed to this channel

[@edwardmiller821]

Great job guys.

[@davidnemoseck9007]

Nicely done guys, nicely done.

[@scottsharp3789]

What a great battle report/event. So many great ideas put to action. A silly question really. Where did you get the metal coins? Thank you. 😃

[@johndesch7251]

Nice report!

[@andyedwards9222]

A fantastic, fun pair of games.

[@BillsWargameWorld]

Awesome like always !!!

[@firemoderncombat]

Really cool video!!!

[@edwardmiller821]

Love the Santa Claus beard

[@LittleWarsTV]

Haha yea thats a brilliant touch. Mark came up with that idea for narration!

[@4sakenreaper42]

Great video

[@maltancrusader]

guys wake up, Little Wars TV just made a new video!

[@paschalisantoniou974]

SPARTANS! TONIGHT WE DINE AT THE CLUB!

[@robandrosehobden3344]

Brilliant game I really enjoyed it better luck next time little wars 🎖🎖🤠🤠

[@LittleWarsTV]

Persia will rise again! Little Wars TV will have our vengeance....

[@greghall4836]

It's always nice to see a Little Wars TV video, although I wish I could have seen more of the actual wargames.

[@alans3023]

Variety is what makes the world go round and I have to say that I thought the dramatic narration didn't add to the battle. Sorry. I thought it was great battle and well presented but, instead of the narration, I would have preferred more views of the battlefield and a little insight into how the rules actually worked. But that's just me. Looking forward to the feature on Men of Bronze. Thanks, as always, for a really entertaining presentation.

[@Carl-MGR]

Greg missed the boat by not committing to movie accurate full body Xerxes piercings! We had a fun time playing this, even if MoB is not the best. Who knows when we’ll have a chance for a rematch.

[@moblinmajorgeneral]

I don't think LittleWarsTV wanted a Content ID strike

[@angelomaset1441]

*me working on my masters in classical European history, focusing on Greece specifically* "Everything you know about the battle of Thermopyle is wrong..." "Well this has been a colossal waste of my patents money." 😂😂

[@oldschoolfrp2326]

Great back and forth editing between the two tables, and the different scale figures used to dramatize the action. Between the two games this felt like a playable scenario instead of a reenactment of a last stand.

[@jakubkorenko]

Good fight Little wars TV. You almost got them.

[@keithflint7243]

Typically original and inventive game, and the usual excellent presentation. Great to watch - except for the dice rolling tray stuck in the middle of the lovingly crafted terrain! I watched and enjoyed the video about making the terrain board. Guys, how could you! Although I have seen worse, having witnessed a nicely set up public demo game with a cheeseburger on a plate neatly displayed on a convenient area of open ground. Keep 'em coming giys. A bit cheesy in parts, but most enjoyable.

[@andrewbarnett4518]

I quite like the concept of the naval game and would like to convert it too the Imjin war. I was wondering what scale ships were used and what the hex sizes are. I also asked the question on Mark's gameroom's channel regarding their video on "Greek Fleets at Sea" but regrettably I haven't had a reply in two weeks. Wonderful video as always and interesting setup to fight two battles simultaneously

[@markwoodford1733]

Most entertaining guys thanks

[@jeffreybaker4399]

I really like the guys, but I'm not sure I want to entrust them with the fate of Western civilization.

[@LittleWarsTV]

You are as wise as Plato, good man.

[@derrickmorrison5832]

Very entertaining!

[@georgekaragiannakis6637]

Very enjoyable. The God of sea is Poseidon not Neptune - the Roman name!

[@mourka01]

this was really entertaining

[@emielpeper9248]

I just love how often these wargames play out eerily similar to the actual historical battles they reenact

[@micahklein7666]

One of the best ways to make me instantly view you as an arrogant fool is say "EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU KNOW IS WRONG!" Then he proceeds to say really commonly known things...

[@stevep5408]

Why do they ignore the synergy between the Spartans on land and Athens on the sea. If the control of the sea was lost the Persians could have easily circumvented the narrows by landing a short distance south of the pass. It only counts as a choke point as long as your opponent can't merely circumvent the blockage!

[@ken333howe]

The Vanguard Hobby Club is up to the challenge.

[@board-qu9iu]

Important to remember on 300 that it was an adaptation of the comic 300 so it’s better to see this as being loosely related to the actual battle

[@LittleWarsTV]

Very loosely! But still a fun film!

[@YOUPIMatin123]

Dirathea printing is great! I have 6mm from them. Great value.

[@LittleWarsTV]

I had never heard of them before but the minis are quite sharp. I really like the 15mm medievals especially, but I also picked up several Napoleonic ships!

[@kelvinsantiago7061]

Nice video!. Could we get some more Ravenfeast (maybe with mythological enemies?). Also Greetings from Puerto Rico!.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Definitely aiming to do more Ravenfeast. The Dark Ages games have not been hugely popular with viewers (so it seems) but we love playing this period anyway!

[@user-nv1mh3ku3j]

Spectacular game, love the variation of land and sea. You guys alway deliver a good scenario with enthusiasm. Importantly where did the ships come from? Isaw marks review of the rules and woukd love to relight Actium

[@Carl-MGR]

The ships are Tumbling dice 1/2400. Very cost effective

[@blecao]

Diratia has one of the few stls for Jannisaries In fact they are the only ones i had find

[@theobessiris9681]

Great video, but was that Herodotus I saw or was that Santa with a bad hair day or a hangover?

[@Myke...]

If you doing club vs club, wonder if a trophy be a cool incentive

[@davidsykes2721]

Does Santa have a job this Christmas? 🤣

[@MRFlackAttack1]

The winner should get to take the battlefield home.

[@tonys4341]

Absolutely tremendous! I agree with your thoughts on MoB. I was so looking forward to them, but something just didn't quite gel when I tried them. Anyone know how the new rules "Age of Pericles" plays?

[@Carl-MGR]

I’ve given them a whirl. They’re interesting, very much at a crossroads between skirmish and mass battle

[@Anvilarm07]

Great batrep. I love seeing the naval battle and the land battle side-by-side; and the land battle terrain looked great. All the minis looked great too. I would have liked a closer look at the ships. But two gentle, constructive criticisms. On land there was really no tactical maneuvering. Just troops bumping head on into troops, and rolling dice. Also to me it didn't feel right. The Persians and the Greeks seemed to have the same number of troops rather than a huge Persian army vs. a small, elite Greek army. Still love your stuff.

[@LittleWarsTV]

You’re right that the unit count was the same on the land battle…except the scenario allowed for infinite Persian recycling when units were killed. No such recycling for the Greeks!

[@takethewinwargames]

Very good video. Could you tell me where those nice cardboard ships are from?

[@Carl-MGR]

They are from a Russian company that makes 3D models. It’s unlikely you’ll be able to get any until the war is over though!

[@takethewinwargames]

@@Carl-MGR That's a shame. Thanks for the answer!