Liu Yu and the Fall of the Eastern Jin Dynasty

[@tralafla45]

Finally, a English-language KZbin channel that goes into Chinese history in more depth than a B student at a 100-level college course.

[@joeblogs8049]

A lot of dynasties have some endearing trait, for the Jin dynasty is seems that trait was surviving despite their best efforts.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Haha that's so true, although it's also by design - the Eastern Jin Dynasty was one of the closet to an aristocratic oligarchy in Chinese history, and the aristocrats generally didn't want any one of them to become too powerful.

[@onthihocky5666]

Another great video. Liu Yu is very much underrated in Chinese history. And it appeared that Souther Dynasty was so corrupted that prevented it from uniting China, not due to lack of military prowess.

[@6principlesforcartography61]

It's more likely because of noble unrest. The south is geographically divided and had many local powers which had conflicts against each other, which made it hard for them to concentrate on marching north.

[@theomiller7182]

You are currently creating my favorite history lessons of all time! Thank you for the work you put into these videos, the effort is greatly appreciated and the product is a privilege to watch!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, glad you've found these videos helpful! This one took a while to produce because I made a bunch of new maps, but hopefully it all pays off for future videos.

[@yixoraptor6775]

This is absolutely beautiful. Everything in the video, from the visuals, to the actual content, to the story at the end. Reminds me of Historia Civilis, but for China.

[@laturnich9507]

Kind of sad to see the Jin is finally over. Feels like they've been part of the narrative forever at this point, and I kind of love how much of a hot mess they are from start to finish. It's kind of amazing they hung on for as long as they did while seemingly being constantly on the brink of dissolution. Thank you for documenting this whole crazy, messy period

[@gatesofkilikien]

Yeah I'm a bit sad the Jin Dynasty is finally over too, although maybe even more relieved that I can finally move on to less convoluted timer periods. Writing about the Jin Dynasty has been quite rewarding though, and I finally got to properly learn about a period in Chinese history that used to be a big knowledge gap for me. Thank you too again for all your support - there's been lots of growing pains this past year and your feedbacks have been incredibly helpful

[@KhanMann66]

Can’t wait to see the rise and fall of Sui and rise of Great Tang dynasty.

[@Ignorable1023]

@@gatesofkilikienYou are a Chinese， right？

[@lucasvanderhoeven3760]

Respect man, an hour long vid with such quality, you’re already one of my favourite KZbinrs!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate the support, and looking forward to continue to growing the channel!

[@Thecognoscenti_1]

What is it with minor impoverished members of the Han imperial house selling shoes for a living and then gaining power later on in life? Liu Bei also did the same thing

[@shinsenshogun900]

Beware of any humble Lius, no matter where they hail from!

[@عليياسر-ذ5ب]

​@@shinsenshogun900The Shen family, which was part of the Qin dynasty and united China with the Tang family, is the best family in China

[@deiansalazar140]

​@@عليياسر-ذ5بShen who?

[@Nick-hi9gx]

A professor in one of the intro Chinese History courses I took said "take this as meaning something like 'burger flipper'". Whether it was making sandals, weaving mats or baskets, it is all seen as kind of the lowest sort of work, that isn't agricultural. It is just like the "Evil Queen Regent" or "Evil Concubine" trope, it doesn't matter whether it is actually true, it gets the message across. "Evil concubine trope" means the emperor was indulgent and ineffective...or he was killed by a rival and the rival wanted to smear him. "He made sandals/mats/baskets" is the equivalent of "he was so poor, he had to salt fries at two different restaurant jobs.".

[@王小宝-n1s]

In fact, the Eastern Han Emperor Liu Xiu was also like this. He was just an ordinary farmer at that time.

[@Nom_AnorVSJedi]

Please do a vid explaining: 1. Zhou feudal rank structure 2. Qin Order of Merit system 3. Han dynasty government structure specifically the Three Lords and Nine Ministers

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks for the suggestions. Sure, these are all good topics to talk about, and I'll try to find ways to at least incorporate them into future videos. I'm eventually planning to work on a series on ancient Chinese history like what I'm doing with medieval Chinese history now, so would definitely be talking about these topics then.

[@Nom_AnorVSJedi]

@@gatesofkilikien 👍🏻

[@hpsauce1078]

You are currently up there for being my favourite history channel, this video was a treat, thanks very much

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, glad you've enjoyed the video!

[@shinsenshogun900]

This video is going to haunt the Eastern Jin Sima clan for the fact that forces from the distant past and the unforeseen future are going to bite their thrones up at once here!

[@ManhHungPham3003]

Fri 13 is a happy day with new learning. Thank you for your wonderful work 😊

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate your support too!

[@hamarta1006]

Nice video! Simplistic but clear map presentation paired with an engaging narration makes this kind of videos is a must watch to anyone who loves map and history! Im sure slowly but surely this channel will grow to become a big channel, keep it up!! But don't forget to take care yourself, and avoid burnout. Im fine if this channel only upload 1 videos per months, as long as we can enjoy a good quality videos like this! Thank you

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, really appreciate the support! There's a lot of history and geography topics I want to discuss with this channel, and right now I feel like I'm still laying the foundational pieces for the channel. There's been some pretty exciting subscriber growth these past few months too, although really no rush with these things, and I feel like the upcoming 3-6 months are important times for the channel as I learn how to deal with interacting with a bigger audience while also making my workflow process more efficient rather than just pump out content. I'm hoping to be able to post more frequently in the future, and also like you mentioned avoiding burnout in the process.

[@cmaven4762]

Just did a rewatch of the Jin dynasty videos, and finally beginning to feel I can understand the motivations behind the rapid changes. Looking forward to what you have on the northern and southern kingdoms period.

[@SalmanKhan-ze3zh]

Sima Yi laid the foundation of the most useless and chaotic dynasty

[@applesaucelord368]

Tbf, it's his descendants weakening the western jin dynasty that made this century a headache but yea i kind of agree to a certain extent lmao.

[@cyberiansailor9741]

Yeah I'd say that murdering Cao Mao was a really bad move. It would have been interesting to see what would've happened if Sima Yi just keeled over dead before his coup and the Caos stayed in power in the north​@@applesaucelord368

[@arielquelme]

Everything could happen.. But i guess still its not in Shu Han favor Its economy already straned ny Zhuge Liang's useless campaign.. Not to mention Jiang Wei further makr it worse with his bad adventures

[@shinsenshogun900]

​​@@arielquelme FYI, the Shu adventures commanded by Zhuge Liang and Jiang Wei gave Shu enough time to keep up the aging Han dream and expanded as much as possible as far as Wudu and Tanzhong, as well as leveraging enough manpower by dwindling superior Wei numbers as well as accepting Di and Qiang barbarian rebels, inb4 Jiang Wei's final disasters that is his final expedition and the eunuch dominant Shu court's hostility of any Shu military activities, which includes defensive policies immediately before Sima Zhao's invasion of Shu. Finally, these Northern Expeditions as well as some average northward Wu successes such as Dongkou would surely inspire the Sima Jin dynasty generals to keep up the reconquests of the lost Northlands

[@shinsenshogun900]

​@@applesaucelord368Sima Yan's excesses and choices wholly contributed to the disaster of the early Chinese empire, and partly excacerbated by Sima Yi's brothers' kindred too!

[@MenwithHill]

These videos are so dense with information, takes me several watchings to actually absorb it. Keep it up

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, will do! Yeah especially for the Chinese history videos my goal is to have a good set of reference videos that people can use if they want to learn about the political events from a certain time period, so my intention is for people to watch them slowly. I also think it's important to not split up a topic or a certain time period into multiple videos, since that fragmentation, especially on a platform like KZbin, makes it harder for viewers to appreciate the bigger picture. The downside though is to cover what I want to cover the videos tend to run long, like this one.

[@bentilbury2002]

Great presentation! Well worth twice the wait. 😊 A nest of vipers would be embarrassed by what went on in the Eastern Jin courts 😂. Interesting times indeed...

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks for your patience - I significantly expanded the draft and made a fresh set up maps rather than reusing poorer quality older ones, which is why it took so long. I'll be able to reuse the maps for later videos though, so that should help things a lot moving forward.

[@tfsweet]

Another awesome and informative video!!!! KEEP IT UP!!!!!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks again!

[@kimanijoseph8378]

Good Video. Cant wait for the conclusion the 5 Barbarians 16 Kingdoms period. It's kind of funny that around the same time, Rome's real Crisis is happening at the same time lol.

[@cmaven4762]

I'm supposed to be working, but I made the mistake of clicking this video first .... lol ... This is excellent. I'm definitely going to watch this more than a couple of times.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, glad you like it, and I hope I didn't send you into any internet rabbit holes (it tends to happen to me). And for these Chinese history videos my intention is for them to be watched over time anyway, since I pack a lot of information into them. I just don't want to split up a topic into multiple parts if I can avoid it since it's then harder to discuss trends that took place over time.

[@cmaven4762]

@@gatesofkilikien I got so caught up in your presentation that I watched the entire thing in one go rather than leaving some for later. LOL This is one of the best explanations of this complex time period in Chinese history that I have found. I think it's because you took your time to explain the events so that we could understand the interactions and motivations of the key players. I also like that you illustrated *where* things were happening, because that made the flow of events more logical and easier to understand. I'm definitely going back with a "family tree" type chart so I can better understand the family connections, though.

[@cmaven4762]

@@gatesofkilikien Oh and I love internet rabbit holes ... just wish I had more time to indulge in them .... lol

[@dinosaursnack]

Another banger. Gonna have to watch this in two parts for maximum retention

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, yeah these are long videos and very information dense, and my intention is for them to be watched over time anyway. I hate breaking a video on a certain topic up into shorter videos because then it becomes harder to discuss bigger picture stuff or to show changes that take place only after generations.

[@ydk1k253]

29:57 "They managed to conquer Nanyan and defeated the rebels! The Jin dynasty is saved!" "Liu Yu and Liu Yi, were finally free to turn against one another..." GODDAMNIT

[@carrotcarrot27]

You are one of my favourite youtubers on chinese geopol

[@RuthlessTragedy]

Ive been patiently waiting for the next upload! Thank you ao much for this incredible storytelling and visuals. I love learning about chinese history through geographic positioning. Thank you once again!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Glad you enjoy it! Chinese history can be especially tough to understand since the texts like to assume the readers already know where things are. The reverse is also true - it's hard to discuss geography without the history. My original intention with the channel was to do mostly historical geography and not too much on actual history, but very quickly I realized they're too closely intertwined subjects to be able to do it like that.

[@yuytbe]

I was checking back every week for a new video 😃

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, hope you enjoy this one - I've been experimenting with broadening the topics I discuss so have been really looking forward to finalize and upload this one for a while.

[@marshmilo4588]

OMG I LOVE THIS SO MUCH KEEP IT UP.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, will do!

[@themagickalmagickman]

These videos are always great

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate it!

[@AM22Salabok]

lets goo new upload

[@Black.Templar_002]

i really wish youd upload more often 😅, i love your videos!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks! I'm working on being able to upload more regularly in the future too. This one was particularly hard to produce since I decided to update (finally) to a whole new set of much better quality maps, but hopefully moving forward the time investment pays off.

[@syjiang]

Woot, new video! Thanks

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, hope you enjoy it!

[@iamthespy9808]

Keep up the excellent work. It will pay off.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate the support!

[@Sparticulous]

Thank you

[@vanillaboy4514]

Awesome video, Liu Yu was kind of a bad ass.

[@guilhermefaleiros4892]

Since I like Cao Cao, its very good to see the jin fall

[@kihuu4055]

cow cow 🐮

[@guilhermefaleiros4892]

@@kihuu4055 Liu meow 😿

[@royos-yaps]

I love your videos!!!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate the support!

[@speedwagon6-e1b]

39:07 Wait, isn’t this basically Nobara’s move from Jujutsu Kaisen?

[@ElBandito]

Excellent choice!

[@FelixHdez]

nice video bro

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate it!

[@thunder.perfectmind]

Coming back to this video a year later I'm wondering about any sources for the idea "Zhi" (之) could have been a sign of daoist membership? Haven't found anything online. Religious beliefs influencing names is an interesting topic, so I'm also wondering if there's similar practices historically or today? I imagine Hui groups have different naming practices than Han Chinese, but is there also some names/characters that are particularly Buddhist, Confucian etc that you know of?

[@hikoriy1988]

23:07 Liu Yu unlike, Liu Yu, Liu Yi

[@bokonoo77]

btw great work!

[@Nick-hi9gx]

Well darn, I typed out a whole large comment, but it didn't post and I lost it. Sad. Anyway, in short, it was just how much I am looking forward to the next couple centuries covered in this format. Especially as the sphere extends to Korea, and then Japan. The Sui, then Tang, involved in the Korean Three Kingdoms period, and the Yamato, are really fascinating because that is the period when Chinese culture REALLY spreads to Korea and Japan. Buddhism, gift-giving, Confucianism and Taoism in their post-societal collapse forms, academic culture.

[@speedwagon6-e1b]

i think it’d be fun if a discord server can be created for us viewers and subscribers to discuss your videos and chinese history(ancient and imperial)! Thoughts?

[@navienslavement]

We need a 贴吧 page, not discord

[@chizhang4369]

@@navienslavementTieba is screwed now. Even as a Chinese myself I had not use it for a long time

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, and let me think about this some more. I've been trying to figure out ways to more effectively engage with viewers, or at least just figure out how to send more regular updates on what I'm working on so I don't leave people hanging. I've never used Discord before though, or 贴吧 for that matter, so would take some time to learn and to get a sense of what other similar channels are doing.

[@jjsmith4829]

do you have mandarin language versions of your videos?

[@gatesofkilikien]

I don't - I do most of the research in Chinese, but then all my writing for the channel has been in English.

[@bokonoo77]

I don't really think Liu Yu would have conquered north as his army would be quite reliant on bad decision making of his enemies as we can see from his southern Yan campaign

[@dragomirw.844]

I assume it wouldn't be so ambiguous in the Chinese, but in English the broken pikes and hammers almost sounds like making stakes? Maybe placing stakes between the wagons where the cavalry are forced to go?

[@janchivnarantsatsral2210]

Please part2 of Xi’an

[@gatesofkilikien]

Yes will do, now that I'm done with the video on Liu Yu Xi'an part 2 is next.

[@thomasantn]

Since the ancient time, Middle Kingdom had always been facing the attack from North, the Xingnu, the Mongols, the Jin and Manchu, not much from the South. For some reason, most of the time, it’s often the North that defeated the South. There are many examples. For example, during the Ming dynasty, the prince stationed in Beijing eventually defeated the sitting emperor his nephew capitols at Nanjing then he moved Ming capital from Nanjing in the south to Beijing in the north. The dynasty then lasted 200+ years until Manchu came down from the even north. A more recent example is the civil war between PRC and ROC. ROC whose capital was at Nanjing was eventually defeated by PRC which later selected Beijing as its capital.

[@King_Steffon_II]

I know the Chinese spellings are different but the Yuanming in Tao Yuanming prophetically foretold the coming Yuan Dynasty and the succeeding Ming Dynasty. Though many don't believe it, for me it's just another nail in the "We live in a simulation" coffin 😉 Great series as usual mate. Always looking forward to the next episode.

[@podcastler]

this whole mess could have been avoided if Sima Yan had not made his mentally unstable son the heir and given the princes so much power

[@thunder.perfectmind]

Now this is the real TGIF

[@casper1581]

Right?! I had a busy week, but then after work seeing there's finally a new video was just perfect!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks guys, appreciate all the support and hope the video was helpful!

[@MrBoliao98]

Actually, have you considered dubbin in Mandarin. I find it helpful to have both.😊

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks for the suggestion. Let me think about it and see how/if I can get it done, although it may be some time since I've been bogged down with so many other tasks for channel lately.

[@knguyen4c]

The problem with Chinese history is there are too many players and too many names. It’s a bit confusing

[@T_DotTH]

Me when thousands year of history.

[@btmillack21]

I am wondering how sensible it is to translate ancient Chinese poetry. I can imagine that the power of the poetry is closely related to the language itself and its hidden and multiple meanings. I do not think that it is possible to reflect that in English or in any other western language.

[@gatesofkilikien]

I don't think poetry is really translatable either, especially since so much of its beauty comes from the rhyme and rhythm that cannot obviously cannot be converted to a different language. For this reason I'm experimenting with reciting the poem out loud in Chinese, so that viewers could get a feel for the sounds and rhythm, and then simply going for a very literal translation to provide the context needed. It helps that I can pick out poems that are relatively easier to translate - something like Du Fu's regulated verses with matching couplets would be much harder to do. Ultimately, though, I tend to be of the mindset that if we really want to appreciate poetry in a particular language, we may just have to push ourselves to learn enough of that language to get us to appreciate the poetry.

[@bmx6994]

i think sixteen kingdom era is the worst era in china. but why many people think century humiliate in china history.