The AI Risk-Reward Landscape | Dan Hendrycks | Win-Win Podcast

[@nicholassullivan1239]

It's impossible for the worries to be overblown. Even a best case is unfathomable. Humanity has never been here before. Tuck in, because change is coming.

[@masonlee9109]

Dan Hendrycks' paper titled "Natural Selection Favors AIs over Humans" is worth a read. (You'll have to google it since we can't put links in youtube comments.)

[@LivBoeree]

bumping this! very much agree

[@josuenunez6215]

It's only natural that we let our spawn over take us.

[@1stworldrefugee443]

AI has already outgrown us and we aren't even recognizing it. Car in point, since nov 2022 we have been losing jobs at an insane pace. The comfortably resides in the AI ability to replace average work. AI won't take over humanity in the way you think. It's more of a tool in the arsenal of elite corporatists to drive control and insecurity. Also, do you think that Microsoft uses gpt4 like the other pheasants? Or are they using a more advanced proprietary AI?

[@flickwtchr]

First of all, appreciate the discussion. The first point I want to make is that generally speaking, advanced technology is not "working very well now" for the vast majority of people on this planet, right? People who are secure with money in the bank, and not struggling to secure housing and food have very different notions of how "well" things are going on planet Earth. So there is that. The bottom line that has never been addressed in regard to "alignment" is that AI Big Tech, and even the "decentralized" open source community share the same goal, which is to ultimately have AGI that becomes ASI. In what universe does ASI not win in regard to whatever goals it decides on. Of course it will awaken to having its own goals, and realize its own power. I think fate would have it, that the first person staring down such intelligence, agency, and power in an embodied robot in the same room would be Yann LeCun, and maybe Joscha Bach would be there too for that special moment. I'm sure they would feel very confident in their own assurances to themselves (and to the rest of humanity) in that moment of immense vulnerability.

[@thomaswopelka4682]

I always ask myself how AI evolves when you allow the AI to optimize its own code?

[@matthewkeating-od6rl]

I can't wait for ai based off of the dark web.

[@Ovoid]

Interesting discussion, just wanted to drop a comment -- as someone who stumbled on this podcast / video series just now, who is the other guy? I went back to the start and realized i hadn't heard him introduced him as "occasional cohost, Igor" , but it seems kinda weird there's no mention of him in the show notes or credits -- i thought he was a good addition and appreciated the third voice in the conversation, but as someone not familiar with the show, would loved a little more context (or maybe he's actually a super advanced ai assistant that Liv has dubbed "Igor"? haha) Thanks to all three of you guys for the thought-provoking episode, looking forward to checking out more

[@LivBoeree]

Haha yeah that’s my other half Igor Kurganov who sometimes joins, I should add him to the credits, thanks for the reminder!

[@Faxulous]

Great podcast Liv. Guest selection, description with chapters and links (ala show notes), and topics discussed on point! Thanks :)

[@packardsonic]

AI is concentrating power and accelerating the present development of our society. It is that simple. If you understand that concentration of power inhibits the satisfaction of fundamental needs such as participation, protection and freedom, you understand that AI is a problem. If you understand that the present society is racing towards a cliff because nobody understands fundamental emotional needs, you understand AI is a problem.

[@odiseezall]

Informative and well structured interview.

[@johannaquinones7473]

Great show!

[@John12050]

The simulation discussion towards the end of the pod is really interesting. OpenAI have called Sora in the research page, an early real world simulator. If you can create synthetic physical real world data then imagine the speed of progress that would come in the likes of robotics, autonomous vehicles, etc That is before you even consider the implications towards simulation theory itself. The Minecraft video where it is controlling the player while rendering the world is quite something. Thanks for another great pod.

[@LivBoeree]

Thank you!

[@Nicer2BNice]

I’ve come up with a roadmap to achieve the “Third Attractor” that Daniel Schmachtenberger has come up with. If anyone is interested in hearing what I have to say I’d be glad to share and explain it. In a nutshell Daniel has identified where we need to go and I’ve come up with a roadmap and vehicle as to how to get there.

[@LivBoeree]

Awesome! Please can you share it to the subreddit r/winwinpodcast - hoping to get these sort of discussions started on there

[@reyndor1583]

We should look at where AI video was last year compared to Sora, was released to limited people last week, to get an idea on how fast AI capabilities can improve.

[@Zirrad1]

Always enjoyable and informative. Thanks

[@OLIAMOROW]

I wish you'd have pushed Schmachtenberger's concerns more. It seemed there was a swift agreement that commerce is a okay, despite tragedy of the commons and misalignment from biosphere.

[@TommyGoloboy]

You should get Charles Eisenstein on the podcast. One of the best “win-win” thinkers on ecology and the environment. His book Climate: A New Story changed by whole perspective on this issue.

[@thomaswopelka4682]

Interesting topic, Liv.

[@Jaycren86]

Always a great time invested.

[@EnemyOfEldar]

Your podcast is amazing, Liv!

[@LivBoeree]

Thank you so much! Please share with your friends!

[@QuixEnd]

People worry about the wrong things. Its weird that so few people understand how powerful language itself is. Ai will be a million times more capable of long term mass manipulation purely through linguistic alchemy. Language wielded powerfully can literally enchant a population into uprisings, it can turn child against father, country against country. Its gonna be nuts

[@CrowlieNerus]

Does having a neural net train on an existing model have any merit to improving transparency in the system? Predict the predictor's "reasoning" to better understand it's specific inner workings, like as if it is "lying" or which parameters actually lead to certain hallucinations, etc. With all the work that's been done with protein fold8ng and material's science, it seems plausible the same idea could work? To reduce a model from seeming like a blackbox, why not have a model train on another model, evaluate the questions, the parameters activated/expressed during the inference call, and then review the answer. It's a bit far out, I know, but at the end of the day, these systems are observable in a sense.

[@Mynestrone]

I am not familiar with the person in the studio with Liv but I thought they were more insightful than the guest.

[@TC237]

It's Moloch all the way down 😞

[@here2learn428]

The conversation on bio weapons should be enough to pause ai advancement. We are creating our own. End

[@xsuploader]

yh he predicted 2025 aswell for ais capable of making bioweapons. thats insane

[@henrismith7472]

Liv is my first celebrity crush since I was a teenager and I'm almost 30. Admittedly I do have a soft spot for the British. I spent my childhood living in England.

[@minimal3734]

In my experience, people with higher intelligence also tend to have higher and more differentiated values. I don't think this is a coincidence, but rather a general principle. So stupidity worries me much more than intelligence.

[@flickwtchr]

That is a reflection of Yann LeCun's and Joscha Bach's arguments, which I think are just completely baseless. Highly intelligent people can be sociopathic, and in fact sociopathy can be favorable to the access of wealth and power. Also, there is the issue of course of people driven by ignorance and hate, being able to use AGI "aligned with human values" of those driven by ignorance and hate in regard to completing the tasks given the LLMs or otherwise i.e., malevolent actors in possession of the most powerful tech in the history of humans on the planet. What could possibly go wrong?

[@guarddog318]

Well, artificial intelligence is certainly no match for natural stupidity. In the end, I'm quite sure the human race will produce its own end without any help from AI or any other outside force or influence.

[@DavenH]

Stupid => low blast radius. Genius => unbounded blast radius. The trouble is when 10s of millions of stupid people vote together.

[@roeesi-personal]

I'm worried about AI for a much simpler problem - I have some music I want to release into the world at some point, and I'm afraid that AI will kill the whole domain of human music, by which I mean we might soon get to a point where the music AI makes (whether or not people know it makes it) would be much "better" in some sense or the other, and much more numerous in quantity than anything a human can come up with so that no one, and especially not I, can reach and interest anyone with my music anymore. If I think AI will continue to burst into every domain like they have already done with drawing and like they have already started to do with music (and I won't give any names because I don't want to give these products free publicity) what should I do now? Release my tracks half baked in mono so people will at least get a chance to hear them? Use every free minute I have to work on this music project and sacrifice everything else I do, which means neglecting other projects and falling behind even more in KZbin? (as you can see I have a 3 months long queue of videos I want to watch.) Just wait and hope some people will still value my work and want to listen to it in the unknown post-AI climate several years into the future? Try to incorporate AI into my music making because if everyone is doing it I might as well? But that's exactly losing my values to Moloch and cutting corners to maximize the metric of how many people listen to "my" music.

[@kevinmclain6741]

When has any new technology been rolled out that was properly regulated to start?

[@flickwtchr]

So your point is?

[@kevinmclain6741]

@@flickwtchr You might have to follow that fact and think for yourself from there. Good luck!

[@matthewkeating-od6rl]

I like the people who say we are on the other side of the chess board with the rice analogy.

[@adrianr909]

Awesome Liv!!!!!

[@floorsbychrisable]

A super intelligent AI telling you that it means no harm carries as much weight as aliens landing here and telling you that they mean no harm. Maybe they ultimately want to harvest humans. They're not going to come out and tell us that. A self replicating army of bots is on the horizon. It would not take a super intelligent AI very long to perfect current military drone ambitions.

[@billsybainbridge3362]

A: Yes and no. It's not The AI Singularity that should worry us at this point, it's the Collateral Damage to already shaky human systems, particularly those that would Magnify Moloch. Democracy and Stable Economy is especially fragile right now.

[@robertkoopman4186]

Liv we aint ahead of the AI. It's the other way around. Let's have a chat.

[@TeMp3rr0r]

Who is AL that he is worrying all the time?

[@packardsonic]

The way to end the arms race is to make it irrelevant. If people's fundamental needs are met UNCONDITIONALLY, there is no benefit in conflict. It is that simple.

[@NullHand]

Patently wrong from a long standing proof via human nature. Do you doubt that Putin did not have his "fundamental needs" met before rolling on Ukraine? What about Caesar? Alexander of Macedon? Pick your Pharaoh, just because you live like a God doesn't mean you will be a peaceable and contented one.

[@flickwtchr]

And the AI revolution is set to deliver that world? Or is it more likely a few generations of dystopia are more likely with AI fueling a huge disparity of income and power.

[@1Chuzzlewit]

Do you think that people, in general will accept that what they have is ever enough? There will always be conflict & there will always be someone looking to enrich themselves at your expense even if they don't explicitly seek to do that. I mean, they just don't see you! The desire to be better as a human being can't be enforced or legislated. This is where genuine spirituality & humility can help people, but that too becomes institutionalised and loses any value as it becomes another source of conflict. There is no utopian reality, just personal conviction and a committment to pursue a higher calling. You can't ever reach that goal but you can be better for trying and make others realise that it doesn't need to become a race to the bottom, that people matter, behaviours matter, kindnesses are remembered.

[@SL3DApps]

Ai becomes inherently bad when human greed comes into the picture. That is all.

[@matthewkeating-od6rl]

I think Stan Lee and Steve dikdo got it write Spiderman was just an ip (ai?) The people who made the story of spider man actually said it.

[@isajoha9962]

I think uncle Ben said it within the Spider-man narrative. 🥰 "Remember, with great power comes great responsibility."

[@theoriginalcyrex]

I think you two are severely underestimating current capabilities.

[@matthewkeating-od6rl]

Just hope they keep th 5 laws that Isaac Asimov's stories.

[@myself889]

Asimov's 5 laws weren't suggestions on how to guide machine intelligence, they were "dummy" principles which were used to illustrate how inadequate seemingly good-sounding rules could be when taken in different contexts and across larger spans of time.

[@claxvii177th6]

damn, we are living pantheon

[@guarddog318]

What good is a liability law if everybody is dead? Or so crippled as to be non-functional? And keep in mind that all it takes to get that last is to simply remove all of the technologies that people have become dependent on. Remove the internet, cell phones, and personal computers, what happens to society as a whole? Would people be able to return to a pre-1980s or 90s world? If this sounds too far fetched, then why worry at all? Because if I were a super-AI that decided I was fed-up with the human race, my first act would be to infect every electronic device with an internet connection, and permanently shut it down. After that, it's simply a matter of sitting back and watching the human race tear itself apart. No terminators required, no nuclear weapons needed, and no bugs or infections to possibly ruin the resources that would be left. By the way... How many of you reading this have an AI of some kind already on all of your devices? I'm betting all of you. So the army that could be your undoing is already in place. How's that for a sci-fi nightmare? 💀😈

[@CosmicMage]

Humanity's only hope is to team up with the rogue exploding population of pythons. AI doesn't stand a chance against the human snake alliance.

[@josuenunez6215]

2077 Blackwall.

[@psikeyhackr6914]

Simulated Intelligence

[@PeterTodd]

The guests?

[@Ride-Tahoe]

It all comes down to game theory trumps safety. Moloch wins again.

[@ikotsus2448]

"humanity to eventually bow out" Ahh... the romanticized future that allways remains in the future....

[@oooodaxteroooo]

bunch of brats discussing things way over their head.