Loaded Stretching Is Terrible For Flexibility Gains | Here's Why!

[@YiannisChristoulas]

Flexibility Program here: www.yiannischristoulas.com/side-split-courses

[@modernfabian]

For those who don’t want to wait until the end, the purpose of loaded stretching isn’t just to become “flexible,” it’s to prevent injuries by becoming strong and stable in higher ranges of motion and by slowly strengthening ligaments. Just because it has the word “stretch” in there, doesn’t mean the goal is to simply become flexible. For me, i’ll be sticking with mostly loaded stretching over static stretching, because my fitness goals are aligned with ATG principles: Injury prevention, rehab, & fixing muscular imbalances.

[@jeffcelis3024]

I don’t know what to believe anymore 😩😂

[@YiannisChristoulas]

This is such a great point. With the way that information is created and delivered today, it's hard to know what is right or wrong anymore. I get this same frustration when trying to gather information on topics outside my expertise (like which is the best hiking gear, for example. I love hiking :) . However, in the case of loaded stretching, there's a simple process to test that yourself. You see, most people can't see how damaging this is to their flexibility gains simply because they don't measure their max range. I'll explain the process below if you want to try it out. However, make sure to perform all these within the intensities that your body is accustomed to. Select any exercise you want to improve your flexibility on (flexibility-wise). For this example, let's pick the Jeffersson curls, targeting to improve hamstring flexibility. 1⃣First, use relatively heavy loads to go as low as possible in every repetition (choose the weight based on your training level; don't overextend). Do around 6-8 sets for 10 reps with 60" rest intervals. This will probably be enough to get you from your cold flexibility level (your flexibility at the start of the session) to the lowest point you can reach (your max range). Many people perceive this as flexibility gains; however, in reality, this is just a warmup activity that takes you from your cold flexibility level to your actual limits. 2⃣ Now, here is the important part. You should accurately measure your max range. Measure the exact distance that you reached from the floor. Use the weight to go as low as possible and see how many cm/inches you reach from the floor. If you can already reach the floor, stand on a box and measure how many cm/inches you have reached below the box. This is your max range. 3⃣ Then, train for 2-3 weeks with the popular loaded stretching concept. In each session, consider all the sets you'll do before you reach your max range as warmup sets. When you reach your max range, start your first "working sets" and use just enough weight to push your body beyond your max. As you do that, push only when it feels safe, especially if you're not accustomed to this type of activity. You should do at least 4 sets, of 10 reps to call it a day, but a more usual recommendation is around 6-10 sets. Aim to train a 2-3 times per week. 4⃣ The moment of truth. Here is what we have observed. 📌 First, most people realize that the first warmup sets that gradually lead to their max range are what most people consider gains. Most people don't measure their training range, so they just get impressed by reaching their actual flexibility level. 📌 Then, beginners usually notice some improvement in the first weeks. However, very soon, the added soreness that accumulates after days of pushing beyond their limits makes it impossible even to reach their initial max level. At that stage, we see the loss of range. 🚨*IMPORTANT NOTE: Pushing further beyond that point often leads to long-lasting soreness and chronic fatigue that makes the muscles feel like tight ropes for weeks. We strongly recommend not pushing beyond that limit. 📌 On the other hand, in experienced stretchers all the aforementioned are evident much earlier. In most cases, they'll be able to reach their max range with a good warmup in the first 2-4 sessions, but after that, it usually takes 6-10 days to be able to reach their max range and train beyond it. Of course, it's far from ideal to have to go through that testing phase to get to the truth. However, people who are convinced by this method train like this for years. In that sense, I think it's a relatively simple way for anyone to understand why this practice is far from optimal, specifically for flexibility gains. If you or anyone else try this out, I'd love to hear about it below.

[@dusandragovic09srb]

Muscles are moving your bones. There is no flexibility...

[@KeterMalkuth]

I think the most important caveat is that most people who'll do loaded stretches are also going to be doing weight bearing exercises, with flexibility as a secondary goal. Flexibility will rarely be a primary goal for the average individual. Everything you listed as a detriment to loaded stretches is a *positive* if you're using them as an accessory to a program primarily focused on muscular development. The most stretched position for any muscle provides the greatest growth stimulus under load. That results in DOMS, naturally, but although it'll be detrimental to flexibility work, they'll still experience it regularly anyways due to muscle bearing exercise, so that won't really be a new obstacle to work around. Training in these extremely stretched positions ensures that you *maintain* flexibility, and in many cases will slowly improve flexibility, which while nice, is secondary to the primary goal. At least on my side of fitness social media, where strength development is the primary focus.

[@modernfabian]

Glad you mentioned this. This video does a poor job at highlighting different fitness objectives. Just because loaded stretching involves stretching, doesn’t mean the end goal is simply to become more flexible. Loaded stretching serves a purpose in prehab, rehab, & fixing muscular imbalances.

[@ASPIRINGATHLETE]

You really stepped up your production quality with this one Yiannis - fantastic video, thank you!

[@YiannisChristoulas]

I'm so glad you noticed that! Thanks for the support 🙏

[@FibberFinn]

@@YiannisChristoulas it really is excellent, more people should see this!

[@jamesbernards8409]

Very interesting. I first encountered loaded stretching as I used the Knees over toes program. I noticed that a lot of my tightness went away and I think I recall my muscles feeling loosely relaxed while yet reactively springy. However, there have been times when I used loaded stretching with unfamiliar methods outside the knees over toes program -- where i took my understanding of the principle and invented my new application of it... and the results I experienced where either limited at best or would actually increase my soreness to the point of near injury. This video you shared ushered my understanding to a new level of nuance and now I am thinking in new ways. The fact that there are different methods, with different results and different outcomes.. all seems very satisfying and right for me to consider. I still operate under the belief that stretching with resistance while contracting the antagonist muscle group to that being stretched can do a lot of good as my personal experience has given me strong evidence to believe so. That being said, I also believe there is a lot about my experiences that I simply do not have a full understanding of yet and so my interpretation of said events could be misaligned with the simple reality of what's going on. Thank you for making and sharing the thought provoking video Yiannis. I hope you gained as much good from making this video as I did from watching it. :) Till the next one. - James

[@TeacherDoug7]

I don't really think of Knees Over Toes as loaded stretching, it's more like Full Range of Motion training.

[@SuperAwesomedude20]

@@TeacherDoug7 great point. its more of a way of strentheing tho range you already have

[@CaptChilly]

Anecdotally I've gotten a lot of flexibility gains from pretty intense loaded stretching without any soreness. I also lift a shitton so I can probably attribute that to the repeated bout effect, but regardless of the reason I have not really experienced any of the downsides described in this video and loaded stretching has been more effective for me than any other forms of mobility/flexibility training I've tried

[@coachdraz8866]

I use loaded stretching in combination with dynamic stretching twice a week (I do weightlifting and handbalancing also) and it worked wonders for me. But rarely I do it in full range. So yes I fully agree.

[@alinab6571]

Same, loaded deep front squats increased both my squat depth as well as my stability.

[@coachdraz8866]

@@alinab6571 I got pubic bone inflammation. Doing dynamic and loaded pancake stretching helped a lot with groin pain.

[@HyperSculptor]

I remember doing loaded stretching and seeing my strength at max ROM increase increase increase, but the max range didn't and it totally felt like my strength prevented me from going further. So initially I increased load and ended up having to use a lot of weight to even get to my max. The soreness was high as well, and like you said it prevented me from training with high enough frequency. Thanks for sharing the knowledge, most people are clueless and advise to stretch when sore, which I did find idiotic (why stretching when soreness only allows your legs to open 90°, when your normal max is 120 for example).

[@pablodumas9446]

This was very beneficial. This also aligns with how: 1. static -> contract -> loop (PNF) stretching maximizes range of motion and scar tissue elimination 2. loaded stretching, which is the opposite as there is no static relaxation but rather just muscle contraction in a persisted state at a above-threshold range of motion, would a. not increase range of motion to the same degree b. result in DOMS c. mirror a traditional resistance exercise Thank you for your comment, HyperSculptor.

[@HyperSculptor]

@@pablodumas9446 "scar tissue elimination" interesting. You're welcome. I still haven't cracked my own code with flexibility, your reply is a good reminder to check your YT again. Cheers

[@lMobiuscidl]

You're the only sports scientist I believe without question.

[@jrg305]

You shouldn't ever believe anyone without question. Look what happened with covid. He does great content I agree. Just the way you said that in light of the times...

[@VictorKing144]

What happened with Covid?

[@YiannisChristoulas]

The top priorities of my content are honesty and quality, so it means a lot to see that someone trusts me so much. I appreciate it a lot 🙏

[@artemthetrain14]

​@@VictorKing144 Are you... Serious?

[@theinfjgoyim5508]

@lMobiuscidl please don't simp. No one likes that. It is pathetic and embarrassing for everyone.

[@hsscha]

one of the best channels! Great content as usual

[@Lia-bm8gw]

I think you are one of the flexiblity youtuber that I trust the most due to your scientific approach. Thank you for making these videos! Do you have any recommendations on how to mobilize tight ankles with the methods you teach? Especially my right ankle is really really tight and I think its related to pain in my right knee.

[@afronovaable]

Amazing video Yiannis, thank you! One question, if I may: I follow the program for the middle splits, but for the previous weeks I am stuck at the same point (groin 39 cm from the ground, feet 181 cm apart). I try the back tilt, but doesn't seem to do anything for me. I start to think, my body is not made for middle splits? Coxa vara (if I spell it right)? Or it is age (60)? When younger, I was in martial arts and a good kicker. Even so, it was always difficult for me to sit cross-legged. I would be obliged for any pointer. Thank you again and keep on with the very interesting, science-based videos.

[@navnnavn1226]

Good points in the video, but I think you are discrediting loaded stretching too much. 1. Perceived soreness is very different in different muscles and for other people. For example, I can do deep dips and my chest gets sore for a day or two. I do elevated RDLs and my hamstrings are sore for almost a week. So elevated RDLs would be counterproductive in the long run, but deep dips still work well. 2. Some of us, like me, want to balance strength training and mobility/flexibility. I give my muscles 2-3 days of rest and they're usually fine. "This will skyrocket your soreness every time" - no, it did so for the first week, then a little less next week, and then it was back to normal soreness levels. I think if you are serious about this, you can commit to a 6 month plan, and the added soreness the first 4 weeks isn't really significant. Besides, I get DOMS from my regular strength training anyway.

[@adidodo]

this is a really solid explanation yiannis! I appreciate the effort you put into these videos. Thank you sir! I tripped at 6:28: I thought you said "larger loads".... good thing you wrote "lighter loads" on the screen and in the subtitles, else I would have been very confused : )

[@Leonidas_Papadakis]

Awesome! You're my go-to for any fitness queries. Your content is consistently well-researched and superbly explained.

[@abdulbyrd7902]

What’s the difference between loaded stretching and “strength through length”? (Which kneesovertoesguy advocates). Also how would I go about increasing ankle mobility through the most “effective” flexibility method, because I’ve tried PNF techniques, but the atg split squat and kot calf raises has been the best thing to help my ankle mobility.

[@SuperAwesomedude20]

Same thing

[@MayVeryWellBeep]

Honestly a great video. A lot of the most respectable people talking about bodybuilding right now are talking about how research shows that using a maximal stretch in your heavy lifts will maximise hypertrophy. This is likely true, but in life you can't have your cake and eat it. You have to decide: do you want maximal hypertrophy or do you want to increase your range of motion? If you want to increase your range of motion, you can't be lifting heavy at end range because it's gonna stop you doing regular effective stretching.

[@YiannisChristoulas]

This is so right. Indeed there have been very interesting findings on the field of hypertrophy. I’ve been experimenting myself recently with end range failure sets especially on the triceps. It’s a great concept but it has its limitations as you very well highlighted. The goods news are that you can trigger hypertrophy without this mechanism simply by training with enough volume and intensity close to failure. Overall there are more than enough methods to increase hypertrophy outside of the end range concept. So if you’re at a phase that you want to increase both hypertrophy and flexibility, you have all the tools to achieve them at the same time.

[@mkovis8587]

So the argument was that doing loaded stretching will make you work beyond your capacity, and that's bad because the soreness from it will cause to work under your capacity in the following workout. Seems like you could easily just not go overboard with the loaded stretch. Your body will get used to it and will not get that sore after a while.

[@wuterman]

I bought into the loaded stratching hype. Only got backpack from it. Your contraction passive range was the only one I saw progress with.

[@chelszoes]

I'm curious to know what Effective Flexibility Methods #2 - #12 are.

[@rachelwalker2526]

Wish more KZbin content was like this. Great video 👍🏼

[@YiannisChristoulas]

Thank you Rachel I’m glad you liked it!

[@i-is-alive]

Through your course and book, how long does it take to get a complete leg split?

[@kristianbakke9430]

Hey Yiannis! Since DOMS is so crucial to avoid, how can one combine training for hyperthrophy and flexibility at once? Is it best to reach flexibility goals first, then maintain + strength train?

[@YiannisChristoulas]

@@kristianbakke9430 I was ready to respond on you other comment, glad you found this video. Hypertrophy training doesn’t necessarily need to create Doms, although the optimal hypertrophy training probably does. That being said you can train with less intensity and bigger proximity to failure on the muscles you want to get flexible during the period you want to increase flexibility.

[@kristianbakke9430]

@@YiannisChristoulas Thanks for the quick and clearifying answer! So if I understand you correctly, as long as I dont use high enough weight to push into new range of motion, im training agonist dynamic end-range. But if I use added load to push beyond my passive ROM i´m essentially using loaded stretching. Makes sense?

[@iskaykandarkar]

If understood u correctly. Loaded stretching to avoid soreness should only be done in the active range. Not in the passive range to avoid soreness and doms? I am a beginner I’ll feel some kind of soreness everytime I stretch.

[@AssettoOfCourse]

Would you consider making a series or a programme on achieving bridge by using these concepts? I have my side splits now but the bridge is much harder given the variety of structures involved and the modern kyphotic posture we all find ourselves in for much of our day

[@ygrigoria]

This breakdown was very insightful and well-presented. Really enjoyed watching it!

[@YiannisChristoulas]

I’m glad you found this helpful and I appreciate your comment 🙏 I’ll keep more videos like this one coming

[@herrar6595]

I'm a climber and a runner, training six times a week, alternating between the two. Running always has me at least a bit sore in my legs, climbing occasionally does too. I'd like to gradually increase my flexibility since it benefits climbing, ideally reaching a side split and full pancake a year from now, how would you program?

[@Yojax]

How does this work if you get soreness from resistance workouts?

[@PheseantNetsuke]

isn't the solution to simply foam roll prior to those stretching sessions since it temporarily relieves soreness?

[@mabe2551]

❤❤❤ Holy shit this is why whenever I do SLDLs + Bend over rows with good stretch and heavy loads my hammies are tight and sore for up to week and flexibility doesn't seem to improve. It's soo good to know this! Thanks a lot. I will immedi😮atly implement it by starting exercises with lighter weights with more stretch for warm up and flexibility, finishing off with heavier weigths with less stretch for muscle and strength gains without excess soreness. Since I am eating carnivore I rarely manage to get sore at all on all other muscles except hammies (no deep/heavy stretching probably) and i love it and hate it at same time. Having this knowledge hopefully will help me adapt my workouts to create a perfect light degree of soreness for like 24 hours on all muscle groups by adjusting the stretch wherever possible.

[@uzomefuna]

I know that anecdotal evidence should be taken with a grain of salt, but no flexibility training technique has given me results as rapidly as loaded stretching.

[@davfb8622]

Does it mean using loads to CONTRACT right below your current range is the right way to go?

[@altay4room]

I was wondering what’s your take on chiropractors?

[@Shizo_san]

Great video like always 🤩

[@MrIanfellows]

I recently bought your splits course but have not started yet and after watching this I am wondering if soreness might interfere with it. I do high intensity (at least for me) kickboxing/bjj cardio 3-4 days a week. My muscles are generally in a bit of a stiff/sore state most of the time and take a while to warm up. Is it sufficient to just do a good warm up, or will the general soreness inhibit my ability to get a lot out of the course?

[@YiannisChristoulas]

If your soreness is consistently at a level that prevents you from reaching your desired training range (with the recommended stretching intensity) you’ll get the least possible benefit from your flexibility training. Of course, the results might still be satisfying for you but they won’t be the best you could get. On the other hand if your soreness stays at a manageable level you’ll get more out of your training. Overall, the more you can train effectively on your end ranges the better results you’ll get. My advise would be to make an effort to minimise soreness until you reach your flexibility goals. This might be very soon if you do it right.

[@MrIanfellows]

Thanks!

[@3skalle]

nice video as always! when will the new side split program arrive?

[@YiannisChristoulas]

Thank you! We spent the entire previous week filming the content and now we edit. It should take around a month. There reason that this took so long is that I t’s a big upgrade of the previous version with a ton of video tutorials and explainers with step by step guidance. It’s not just another program. Hopefully we’ll get it live soon and you’ll see what I mean. If you got the side split 1.0 you’ll get the upgraded version of the side split 1.0 for free. Keep an eye on your email.

[@3skalle]

amazing! Thank you so much for the work you put into your programs and videos :) @@YiannisChristoulas

[@Eri587]

When you say avoid stretching with soreness, you mean soreness in general, like the one you get from lifting or the soreness you get from stretching?

[@zachariasbjorngren1552]

Once warmed up I tend to loose most if not all soreness.

[@christiankennedy9417]

Me too. Often I don't even get much soreness anyway, especially not for an entiere week like it seems to be suggested in the video.

[@thedeathcake]

Loading at the end range is the main cause of hypertrophy. It makes sense it wouldn't be hugely effective for increasing flexibility.

[@kalnyx]

Your videos are awesome. Thank you for the great information.

[@YiannisChristoulas]

Thanks for the support! I appreciate it a lot!

[@miojao-r7r]

Please do a video about days of rest. Most people say you should not train every day, but none of them showed any evidence for it. Thanks in advance.

[@education9135]

U see when rest for about 2. Days when going back to stretch its like u are starting all over u feel pain but when u continue not resting u dont feel pain

[@grayanderson1222]

Excellent video mate,

[@YiannisChristoulas]

Thank you 🙏

[@gustavodc3684]

Thanks 💕 Gràcies 💞 Gracias 💖

[@Kostaaa8]

Many thanks!!!

[@YiannisChristoulas]

You're welcome!

[@trashcangoblin420]

damn the edit is good on this one

[@YiannisChristoulas]

Hahaha thank you! It’s nice to see that people notice it

[@littleflor2975]

Slightly heavy loads helped my butterfly, pancake and leg stretches so much.

[@TimezUp23]

Would the soreness be contributing to adding strength even though it may be slowing gains in flexibility?… i think you answered this question in your video, but I’m asking anyway

[@sasjadevries]

But soreness doesn't give you any gains at all. Soreness is a side-effect of strength training.

[@maxperetti3283]

good morning, what exercise would you recommend (for my back, abdominals or hips) to keep my leg elevated and a greater torso rotation ( like ballerina side developpe, karate side axe kick or link this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGivfYx4naxghck) thank you

[@BrianFace182]

I don't understand what's wrong with good old fashioned yoga, it's done wonders for me, my hips are so much more flexible than they were. Loaded stretching? Wtf just do yoga lol

[@pgscontinuingjourney]

Thanks for sharing this! I would NEVER stretch with dumbbells. A towel or a Yoga Strap are THE MAX for me!

[@YiannisChristoulas]

Thanks for commenting. It’s best to avoid high intensities and overextending with dumbbells. However, keep in mind that you can always stretch with light weight within your current range (the way I present it at 05:50) and get important strength gains. This is not a flexibility method but a valid end-range strength activity.

[@Yojax]

Holy shit! Controversial bomb drop!

[@berzerkfury1459]

Have a bong wait 30 mins and stretch. Youll feel it way better.

[@brandon.d]

I’ve been thinking of documenting stretching progress only training while high LOL. But I don’t smoke weed often and I don’t want to

[@nsiebenmor]

I love lifting weights high. I get an amazing mind muscle connection.

[@JackR772]

Soreness! I thought you were saying shortness 😂

[@YiannisChristoulas]

This may happened because I suck in pronunciation 😂 But… I’ll get better soon 💪

[@raphaelhudson]

The curl over exercise, Mckenzie curls i think did wonders for my flexibility far more than anything ive ever tried .

[@YiannisChristoulas]

You mean Jefferson curls?

[@AznDudeIsOn]

ah avoid soreness gotcha

[@YiannisChristoulas]

👌

[@TheCsePower]

Your premise is wrong. Your logic could be applied to strength training as well. Dont train with weights because it makes you sore😂

[@user-rb1yf4he9q]

There is sooooo much crap info out there. I spend more time discussing why NOT to watch many of these vids than actually training.

[@fotobabielato1994]

Yiannis, you're better than using such nonsense clickbaits. I had better opinion of you

[@YiannisChristoulas]

@@fotobabielato1994 which part of it is nonsense?

[@fotobabielato1994]

@ you’re basically saying “loaded stretching doesn’t work unless you’re doing it my way - pay to find out”. If you’re doing smart content for smart people then cheap tricks are not the way to go

[@YiannisChristoulas]

@ I have a full explanation of what I think that is effective and a full explanation of what not. If someone want to do it in the way that I think that it is beneficial all they have to do is follow the instructions on the video. The basic idea is that if you don’t want to trigger soreness you have to train with less and less weight as you get closer to your max range and never use large amounts of weight to push you beyond that. What is it that I keep hidden and didn’t share in this video?

[@Dylan-yv6ko]

this channel is dying

[@dinosemr8141]

💖💪💖

[@YiannisChristoulas]

🙏

[@smilebroGGs]

bro can i get ur email

[@FilthyBadger]

But KneesOverToesGuy says its the future and the magic sauce

[@maxperetti3283]

good morning, what exercise would you recommend (for my back, abdominals or hips) to keep my leg elevated and a greater torso rotation ( like ballerina side developpe, karate side axe kick or link this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGivfYx4naxghck) thank you